tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18747118.post2278265921266817458..comments2023-11-02T05:00:36.315-04:00Comments on Democratic Convention Watch: Open ThreadMatthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02126730290750804530noreply@blogger.comBlogger1207125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18747118.post-76920480153041734352008-05-13T15:03:00.000-04:002008-05-13T15:03:00.000-04:00New Open Thread posted >hereThis one is now locked...New Open Thread posted <A HREF="http://demconwatch.blogspot.com/2008/04/open-thread-7.html" REL="nofollow">>here</A><BR/><BR/>This one is now lockedOreohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12605488381872007551noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18747118.post-26663402470620856412008-05-13T15:00:00.000-04:002008-05-13T15:00:00.000-04:00Jim, Yamaka,maybe you didn't read last night's pos...Jim, Yamaka,<BR/>maybe you didn't read last night's posts, but your ally Aunt Jean agreed that whoever wins the popular vote if he/she wins with 100K or less it is unsignificant and shouldn't be used to convince anyone? Do I see a division in your group? Tyler already accepted the reality and moved to positive position focused on GE!Amothttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14842726780505390305noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18747118.post-53175829451117093482008-05-13T14:59:00.000-04:002008-05-13T14:59:00.000-04:00Just a thought-One thing that seems to keep poppin...Just a thought-<BR/><BR/>One thing that seems to keep popping into my head the past few days while reading a few articles about how Senator Obama is a much stronger candidate now (besides of Hillary staying in the race as long as she has) is back a couple of months ago when Hillary said when she was asked 'Why would you pick Obama for your V.P.?" and she answered "He's not ready now but by the convention he probably will be" (some words to that effect).<BR/><BR/>Well it makes me think that she probably knew back at that time that he needed to be vetted on the issue of Rev. Wright and a few other issues in order to make him a stronger candidate - so I'd be my bottom dollar that many of the things she has done has been to toughen up Obama. I think that she probably realized long ago that he was the one that would probably get the nomination. <BR/><BR/>I know that this is wishful thinking on my part - but I guess there is some tiny part of me, way down deep inside, that still holds a glimmer of hope that she has enough respect for America and the Democratic Party to do the right thing.<BR/><BR/>And also don't forgot that SEVERAL times Senator Obama has said to us "Remember that no matter what happens during this campaign in the end Senator Clinton and I will still be friends".<BR/><BR/>So here we are sitting in the audience watching the play on the stage being played out - one that has probably been already scripted out.Leah Texas4Obamahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01121157618500811530noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18747118.post-77772661924223652922008-05-13T14:58:00.000-04:002008-05-13T14:58:00.000-04:00leah,mikeruthgis has probably been around a while ...leah,<BR/>mikeruthgis has probably been around a while under another alias.<BR/>I often suspect you are all the same person with multiple emails and names.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18747118.post-25816722919663371222008-05-13T14:51:00.000-04:002008-05-13T14:51:00.000-04:00I have just one thing to say:ROFLMAOI have just one thing to say:<BR/><BR/>ROFLMAOEmit R Detsawhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16551898410943736505noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18747118.post-46930123773838341972008-05-13T14:48:00.001-04:002008-05-13T14:48:00.001-04:00mikeruthgis said... Yamaka, So, why not quit talki...mikeruthgis said... <BR/>Yamaka, <BR/><BR/><BR/>So, why not quit talking about popular vote metrics NOW? It doesn't mean anything and is potentially highly divisive. <BR/> <BR/>mikeruthgis<BR/>popular vote discussion is potentially highly divisive to whom?<BR/>It does seem to cause panic attacks among Obama supporters. You all are whistling through the graveyard.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18747118.post-14681619128830452012008-05-13T14:48:00.000-04:002008-05-13T14:48:00.000-04:00mikeruthgis-I'm not sure how long you have been on...mikeruthgis-<BR/><BR/>I'm not sure how long you have been on this thread, but the chances of persuading Yamaka, Aunt Jean, and Jim to change their minds on any issue is equal to the chances of Hillary winning the nomination!<BR/><BR/>OBAMA / Kathleen Sebelius '08<BR/><BR/>.Leah Texas4Obamahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01121157618500811530noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18747118.post-40828512443708056762008-05-13T14:29:00.000-04:002008-05-13T14:29:00.000-04:00Yamaka, Why wait to until convention floor to disc...Yamaka, <BR/>Why wait to until convention floor to disclaim popular vote as a metric for nomination. If this ridiculous non-metric gets any play at the convention, then McCain will have won by then. <BR/><BR/>Popular Vote doesn't count *now* either. No two people in the USA can agree on the popular vote comparison between Clinton and Obama (what about caucus states? Michigan? Florida? people who vote "undecided"? beauty contests? non-binding primaries? 700,000 here, 200,000 there, blah blah blah). It's all just a mindless distraction from the Democratic Party rules. <BR/><BR/>So, why not quit talking about popular vote metrics NOW? It doesn't mean anything and is potentially highly divisive. <BR/><BR/>On the plus side, I suspect that the SD's are generally too smart and experienced to let half-baked notions of "popular vote" sway them, in either direction. And since they are Democratic party leaders, they have to understand that if they let specious non-metrics like Popular Vote sway their SD vote, then they are undermining the core principle of the Party, which is to adhere to the nomination rules. <BR/><BR/>So, quit talking about Popular Vote! It's a canard.Mike Ruthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10592686405691714026noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18747118.post-18428822513186256352008-05-13T14:25:00.000-04:002008-05-13T14:25:00.000-04:00The most important numbers to keep on eye on right...The most important numbers to keep on eye on right now:<BR/><BR/>Number of delegates need to secure the nomination:<BR/><BR/>Obama 150<BR/>Clinton 328.5<BR/><BR/><BR/>Obama will be giving his acceptance speech at the Democratic Convention on the day of Dr. King's 'Dream' speech's 45th anniversary!<BR/><BR/>OBAMA / Sebelius '08<BR/><BR/>.Leah Texas4Obamahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01121157618500811530noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18747118.post-46818088249175310322008-05-13T14:24:00.000-04:002008-05-13T14:24:00.000-04:00SD's can switch anytime they wish, as can pledged ...SD's can switch anytime they wish, as can pledged delegates elected at the state level.<BR/>So, the only place there preference counts is at the convention. I personally watched the floor fight in 1960.<BR/>It was very entertaining.<BR/><BR/>Looking forward to AugustAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18747118.post-83063834246788142122008-05-13T14:15:00.000-04:002008-05-13T14:15:00.000-04:00Inde:Please see left last BOx (Option 6) in DCW:As...Inde:<BR/><BR/>Please see left last BOx (Option 6) in DCW:<BR/><BR/>As of this minute, the remaining SDs are 275.5<BR/><BR/>HRC has a total of 1889.<BR/><BR/>This is the most relevant important data box that I care. <BR/><BR/>I don't look at all other Partial Numbers put up by Joe P. Goebbals of the DNC!<BR/><BR/>1889 + 122 + 200 = 2211 a few more than the real Hurdle 2208.5!!!!<BR/><BR/>Cheer, Smile and Vote for the First Woman POTUS.Yamakahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17593166843593209807noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18747118.post-1905477731849840142008-05-13T14:08:00.000-04:002008-05-13T14:08:00.000-04:00Yamaka,You need to get your numbers right, there a...Yamaka,<BR/><BR/>You need to get your numbers right, there are only about 240 supers left.Independent Voterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17891665063532900974noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18747118.post-81568794026330118212008-05-13T13:34:00.000-04:002008-05-13T13:34:00.000-04:00The Charleston West Virginia speech in full on vid...The <A HREF="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-NpP5zgc6qo&feature=user" REL="nofollow">Charleston West Virginia speech</A> in full on video.<BR/><BR/>Enjoy it!<BR/>xx<BR/>eded igleharthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17504664781958416390noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18747118.post-7872184882955590042008-05-13T13:28:00.000-04:002008-05-13T13:28:00.000-04:00A quick clarification:I am NOT saying that at the ...A quick clarification:<BR/><BR/>I am NOT saying that at the Convention Floor the Popular vote will be discussed. NO. There only the TOTAL delegates matter. Nothing else.<BR/><BR/>I am suggesting that for about 200 of the 275.5 undeclared SDs (as pf this minute) the Popular Vote lead will be and could be the most attracting criterion to vote for HRC - I hope she will have the lead in PV by the end of June 3, when ALL votes polled are taken into A/C. When these SDs move towards her, then she WILL lead in the TOTAL Delegate counts, which is the only criterion for the Nomination.<BR/><BR/>That's it. Think hard and ponder.<BR/><BR/>:-)Yamakahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17593166843593209807noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18747118.post-18405156559166988802008-05-13T13:22:00.000-04:002008-05-13T13:22:00.000-04:00To my fellow Obama supporters. It looks like some...To my fellow Obama supporters. It looks like some of the stereotypes of those in WV were unjustified.<BR/><BR/>Now I'm not expecting Obama to win in WV, nor am I delusional to the idea that he is going to lose (by a huge margin) but it looks like many of those living in WV are really welcoming people.<BR/><BR/><A HREF="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Xz0huucic8" REL="nofollow">Watch this short video</A>Independent Voterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17891665063532900974noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18747118.post-19583274700162599982008-05-13T13:03:00.000-04:002008-05-13T13:03:00.000-04:00Popular vote does not count!!!There is no objectiv...Popular vote does not count!!!<BR/>There is no objective measurement of popular vote. <BR/><BR/>In my state we had a caucus process for Democratic nomination. Many Democrats sat out the subsequent "beauty contest" primary (which was held mainly for the Republican process that used primaries for half their delegates). <BR/><BR/>"Popular vote" criteria is a direct assault on all the caucus states. <BR/><BR/>Anyone who is claiming popular vote as a measure of nomination is violating the rule of the Democratic Party. <BR/><BR/>Delegates count. Popular vote doesn't count. <BR/><BR/>Quit talking about popular votes!Mike Ruthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10592686405691714026noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18747118.post-91837917306720089682008-05-13T12:41:00.000-04:002008-05-13T12:41:00.000-04:00Dear Democrats, Good Morning.Another cloudy day in...Dear Democrats, Good Morning.<BR/><BR/>Another cloudy day in Houston!<BR/><BR/>Some scattered thoughts funneled from my frontal cortical neurons:<BR/><BR/>1. Some of you keep posting that "We MUST punish FL and MI".<BR/><BR/>I assume you want to punish about 2.5 million voters of MI and FL!<BR/><BR/>I ask you "Why?", and you say "They voted before the Super Tuesday, violating the Day Rule of the Party".<BR/><BR/>Please go through the mechanics of holding a Primary in any State. State Parties and the Govt work together and prepare for the Primary Date. Occasionally, if the State is governed by a rival Party GOP, as in the case of FL, the Party Rule cannot be logically implemented. No mechanism available to implement it.<BR/><BR/>GOP-controlled FL called for Jan 29 for the polling, and the People just followed the States dictates. For this, how in God's name you dare to punish the voters? <BR/><BR/>Do you know who is the real villain? The Party Officials (may be a dozen of them) who agreed to the Party Rule in the first place. You may punish them by stripping their SD voting. That's fair.<BR/><BR/>In MI, the situation is little different: the Governor and the Assembly is in the hands of Democrats although the Senate is with the GOP. There, the Democrats COULD have moved the Primary to Super Tuesday. But they did not. So, you punish the Governor and the Party Officials by stripping their SD voting. Thats' fair, and NOT the voters.<BR/><BR/>This idea has been amply communicated by Gov Dean recently.<BR/>All votes MUST be counted, and according to the choice of the voters the ALL delegates MUST be seated. No vengeful instincts of punishing the innocent voters, please. <BR/><BR/>Regarding the "Uncommitted" votes in MI: Since BHO removed his name as a campaign strategy to win in IA , NH, NE, SC there is nothing he can cry about it now. But to be fair, I suggest divide all the "Uncommitted" votes by the number of candidates who were competing in Jan, except HRC who already earned 55% of the votes. This type of equal apportioning is fair in the given circumstances.<BR/><BR/>Therefore, I conclude that the Real Hurdle for the Nomination is 2208.5 (as per Option 6 of DCW, left last Box).<BR/><BR/>The Math for HRC to win is right here:<BR/><BR/>1889 + 122 + 200 = 2211, a few more than the Hurdle 2208.5.<BR/><BR/>I remain confident that she will win a lead in the Popular vote from the future 6 Contests, and secure at least 122 PDs. At THAT time (between June 3 and June 30th) a batch of SDs -about 200- will move en mass to her side and give her the Nomination. This is doable, could very well happen, as she earned most of the popular vote which is very very important at THIS juncture. Remember, the pledged delegate is not sufficient to go over the Hurdle.<BR/><BR/>I know the Lemmings and the Children of the Piper will not like this. But the fact is truth WILL prevail, IMHO - not BigMoneyBags, for sure.<BR/><BR/>If the 2.5 million voters are in deed disenfranchised for no fault of theirs by the Czarist DNC, we WILL fight you in the mountains, in the valleys, in the big cities and in the small towns of America - we WILL NEVER surrender (as Churchill said long time ago!).<BR/><BR/>The War Just Begins.<BR/><BR/>Good Day.<BR/><BR/>Cheer, Smile and Vote for Hillary the First Woman POTUS. <BR/><BR/>:-)Yamakahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17593166843593209807noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18747118.post-57469666753428766092008-05-13T12:25:00.000-04:002008-05-13T12:25:00.000-04:00;-);-)ed igleharthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17504664781958416390noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18747118.post-38972017922808853202008-05-13T12:17:00.001-04:002008-05-13T12:17:00.001-04:00Ed,Let me rephrase that.When was the last Democrat...Ed,<BR/>Let me rephrase that.<BR/>When was the last Democrat elected President without winning West Virginia?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18747118.post-84983162690434543722008-05-13T12:17:00.000-04:002008-05-13T12:17:00.000-04:00Yam,How's the weather in the state of denial today...Yam,<BR/><BR/>How's the weather in the state of denial today (isn't that the state nickname for TX)?<BR/><BR/>Hillary is looking at a BIG win in WV. She should pick up a chunk of pledged delegates and large portion of the popular vote. <BR/><BR/>But it's looking pretty bleak on the SD front... even if the full delegations from MI & FL are seated. There are approximately 275 SD's if you include SD's from FL & MI with full voting privileges. <BR/><BR/>The add-on's don't look to break her way... even with FL & MI, she is likely to fall farther behind. Here's my breakdown of remaining 48 add-on's to be selected (not including uncommitted add-ons already announced):<BR/> <BR/>5/17 Obama +2 (CO & KS) Clinton +1 (NV) [Obama +1]<BR/>5/18 Obama +2 (CA) Clinton +3 (CA) [Even]<BR/>5/23 Obama +1 (AK) Clinton 0 [Obama +1]<BR/>5/24 Obama +3 (GA 2, WY) Clinton 0 [Obama +4]<BR/>5/25 Obama +1 (HI) Clinton 0 [Obama +5]<BR/>5/31 Obama +1 (MS) Clinton 0 [Obama +6]<BR/>6/1 Obama +1 (ME) Clinton 0 [Obama +7]<BR/>6/7 Obama +5 (MN 2, PA 1, TX 1, VT 1) Clinton +5 (KY 1, PA 2, TX 2) [Obama +7]<BR/>6/8 Obama +1 (MT) Clinton 0 [Obama +8]<BR/>6/13 Obama +2 (WI) Clinton 0 [Obama +10]<BR/>6/14 Obama +5 (ID, IA, MI 1, VA 2) Clinton +2 (MI, WV) [Obama +12]<BR/>6/15 Obama +2 (WA) Clinton 0 [Obama +14]<BR/>6/19 Obama 0 Clinton +1 (RI) [Obama +13]<BR/>6/21 Obama +5 (NC 2, OR, SD, NB) Clinton +2 (IN, PR) [Obama +16]<BR/><BR/>On 4/5, FL selected 3 add-ons; Gelber committed to Obama. Giving the other 2 add-ons to Clinton, then Obama looks to actually pick-up +15 margin over Hillary in remaining 48 add-ons including FL.<BR/><BR/>That would leave about uncommitted 227 SD's & selected add-ons that are uncommitted. If you subtract out the 15 add-ons from my projections, that leaves 212 SD's. Subtract out 8 Pelosi Club members, you're down to 204. <BR/><BR/>Using your numbers, Hillary needs 200 SD's to close the gap. Using my add-on projections and Pelosi club members yet to announce, that would mean Hillary needs about 200 of 204 SD's.<BR/><BR/>Thoughts?jpsedonahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13481057330994650215noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18747118.post-88884431936233294672008-05-13T12:07:00.001-04:002008-05-13T12:07:00.001-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.Independent Voterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17891665063532900974noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18747118.post-37865569166217286052008-05-13T12:07:00.000-04:002008-05-13T12:07:00.000-04:00West Virginia's voting recordWest Virginia's <A HREF="http://www.lewrockwell.com/englund/englund16.html" REL="nofollow">voting record</A>ed igleharthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17504664781958416390noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18747118.post-49266072120865698882008-05-13T12:03:00.000-04:002008-05-13T12:03:00.000-04:00Jim,1988 Michael Dukakis Democrat George H.W...Jim,<BR/><BR/>1988 Michael Dukakis Democrat George H.W. Bush woned igleharthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17504664781958416390noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18747118.post-41212501263704583432008-05-13T11:52:00.000-04:002008-05-13T11:52:00.000-04:00When was the last President elected without winnin...When was the last President elected without winning West Virginia?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18747118.post-23103677077849059292008-05-13T11:49:00.000-04:002008-05-13T11:49:00.000-04:00Richard,Is "certain racist " like the proverbial "...Richard,<BR/>Is "certain racist " like the proverbial "They"<BR/><BR/>If MI and Fla are not seated, it will be a ticket to oblivion for the nominee.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com