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We've been tracking the controversy over the Florida and Michigan delegates to the Democratic Convention, and today it took center stage in the Democratic race:
In a bit of political theater, Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton and the Florida Democratic Party clamored to restore convention delegates that had been stripped by the national party. At stake: 185 delegates in a state where Clinton leads almost 2-to-1.The Obama campaign responded:The presidential candidate said Friday — just four days before Florida's primary — that she wants the convention delegates from Florida and Michigan reinstated. The national party eliminated all the delegates from those states — more than 350 in all — because they broke party rules against holding their primaries before Feb. 5. All the major Democratic candidates also made pledges not to campaign in those states before their primaries.
Clinton could claim most of the Michigan delegates because she won that state's primary after the other major candidates pulled their names from the ballot.
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In an earlier statement, Clinton said, "I believe our nominee will need the enthusiastic support of Democrats in these states to win the general election, and so I will ask my Democratic convention delegates to support seating the delegations from Florida and Michigan," she said.
Not true. A majority of the other delegates gets to decide whether to seat Florida and Michigan, not just the candidate with the most delegates. If Clinton has an actual majority of the delegates, then she has the nomination, and the question of Florida and Michigan is moot anyway."Senator Clinton's own campaign has repeatedly said that this is a contest for delegates, and Florida is a contest that offers zero," Plouffe said. "Whether it is Barack Obama's record, her position on Social Security, or even the meaning of the Florida Primary, it seems like Hillary Clinton will do or say anything to win an election."
Many Democratic insiders believe the eventual nominee — whoever it is — will work to reinstate the delegates at the convention to promote party unity going into the general election, despite two overwhelming votes by the party's rules panel to strip them.
Under the rules for the Democratic convention, the candidate with the most delegates at the convention will control who gets seated — if the delegates follow the candidate's wishes.
In reality, this is really just a political position by Clinton, as she already has a large majority of the delegates in Michigan, and she hopes this stand will attract undecided voters in Florida. It's just really hard to construct a scenario that seats the two delegations if Clinton doesn't have a majority of the delegates going into the convention.
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22 comments:
Why is she saying this now and didn't say it before when the DNC agreed to strip the 2 states of its delegates for moving ahead? It makes her look like a leader to the FL and MI citizens - but why now? Anyhow, there must be a vote to make them count. However when she said she realizes eveyone won't vote, its because they may or may not count. It also means they are trying to override the DNC decision. For a woman who won't autograph a dollar bill b/c its illegal, seems questionable why she's going against her party (the DNC) to do what she wants and count them. Its not fair for other runners and I think divides the party futher. Its in bad taste to also do it in the name of "good will" when she could have said something sooner. This decision was passed down months ago. She won MI b/c she was the only big name on the ballot. Others removed theirs as agreed.
This is simply Classic Clintonian dirty politics. She was perfectly fine with it when the DNC stripped the two states of their delegates, but now that her position is threatened by Barack Obama, she wants them counted. She is NOT a true leader, she is someone who will do or say absolutely anything to gain power.
She is the epitome of what the Democratic Party is not! If the DNC reinstates these delegates and gives here the nod due to those delegates, the DNC will look as spineless as the Republican Party makes them out to be.
Do NOT give into the Clintons.
I live in florida and am furious that my vote will not count! Also, Mr. Obama said this morning that he will follow the rules in florida but he has not! I keep seeing his ads on TV and no other canidates (democratic) He is not following the pledge to not campaign here!
Dear Newcomer08, It is good that you are voting for the first time. There is a difference between "doing the right thing" by meeting the Florida and Michigan US citizens and signing an American dollar bill.
Dear Anonymous,
It sounds like you have been trained well in what "dirty" things to say. It's sounds like a quote from Obama because you have a lot to say but it's hollow. The DNC has a legal process by which the two states may seat the delegates in question.
Dear Angela,
You are absolutely right about Obama's campaign. The truth of the matter is that all of the candidates should have gone to Michigan and Florida for the people rather than not going for the control and power hungry DNC committee.
Let your vote count wherever you live!
Ron S.S.
Why is anyone surprised that a Clinton would agree to one thing, and then change with the tide if such change will bode to their benefit.
I am an African American professional that is now totally disgusted with the Clintons. Hillary will do anything to win. Bill will say anything to pay her back for all his adulterous activities. After looking into what Bill actually did for labor and poor people, I have now lost respect for him.
The DNC might play games with delegates, but my vote will be counted in November!
Clinton - Carrying on the double talking lousy legacy! Whatever benefits her (and him) at all costs! Corruption smells again! Don't fall for it!
All this talk about Clinton's convinient timing for asking to reinstate the FL and MI delegates is rather ridiculous. If she didnt believe that those states should have their vote counted, she would not have stayed on the ballot in the first place, like all the other candidates. And she made those comments before the FL primary which could have gone with Obama for all she knew.
What's important here is that the states votes count. I think it is rather extreme to revoke their delegate rights just because of the date of their primary.
I live in Florida and am outranged that my right to vote has been taken away. It seems strange to me that the Republicans are allowing 50% of their delegates to count and the Democrats are not allowing any to count. Guess that's because we have a Republican Governor, Charlie Christ. Let's be fair here!
I think it does not matter what candidate wants what. What does matter is that every vote should count. It is not the citizens decision to move primary. I think it is just another example of the powers that be running things. Karen A
I am a very sad, disenfranchised Michigan voter. I've looked forward to voting for Hillary Clinton since 1993 when she spoke & inspired me to go back to school. That said, I was thrilled by the other options - including Obama - until the reality hit that our votes wouldn't count. I went to the Obama site to comment (hoping he'd listen - big mistake), and saw posts promoting "get out the uncommitted vote" rallies. That struck me as campaigning, even if it wasn't initiated by his team. The response I received was very cold and 2 days later I got a fundraising email from his campaign. So disappointing. My understanding is that the agreement in MI was not to campaign - not that they'd remove their names. That the Obama camp made a deal with some of the other nominees to remove their names. If that's true (I can't find confirmation), then it was a stink move on his part to make Clinton look bad. Anybody else hear anything about that? Anyway, I've lost hope in a "uniter" who's not making efforts to resolve an issue in his own party.
I don't believe you people. You come down on Obama for campaigning. If his name was not on the ballot, what's the big deal. You want to say he's wrong when it meant absolutely nothing.
But that witch Hillary left her name on the ballot when every one else took theirs off and then she has the nerve to say she won and wants the delegates. How could she have won, when no one else was running?
The voters in Florida and Mich. should start a revolution if they allow those delegates to go to her. What about the people who wanted to vote for their candidate and the candidates name wasn't there? What about the people who said "Oh well its not going to count so I won't even go and vote".
If the people were told the vote wasn't going to count then it should be against the LAW for them to count the votes of idiots who showed up for a meaningless election. Surely they all must have arrived on the short bus!!
I am a Michigan voter. We knew before the primary that our delegates had been stripped. I know for a fact that many democrats didn't bother to vote at all. Obama and Edwards weren't even on the ballot. I actually crossed over to the dark side and voted for the least offensive republican because I didn't want to waste my vote. The only fair way to count the Michigan delegates is to hold another primary or caucus. Otherwise, Clinton's big "win" is a joke and unfair.
This whole argument just goes to show that people are much too partisan and not interested in improving our system. It would be nice if all votes counted equally. Simply going by the popular national vote (giving Obama the uncommiteds in Michigan) would be reasonable, but it just won't happen. The politicians prefer to say whose vote counts. Why not weight all votes equally? Wouldn't it be nice to get rid of the primary system and simply have multiple votes to winnow down the candidates. While we're at it, lets support efforts to get rid of the electoral college and simply go with the popular vote (2 states down, about 23 to go).
Amen Todd...eliminate the electoral college and go with the popular vote. Eliminate rolling primary dates in different states and have a nationally scheduled series of primary balloting to choose the best candidates. And either fix the problems with electronic voting or eliminate them and institute paper ballots with public monitoring. We are not a democracy.
OBAMA IS AN OPPORTUNIST WHO IS JUST AS DIRTY AS THE CLINTONS- DONT KID YOURSELVES. WHO IS THIS GUY ANYWAY - ARE WE ALL SUPPOSED TO VOTE FOR HIM BECAUSE HES BLACK? HE CERTAINLY HAS NO REPUTABLE TRACK RECORD TO SPEAK OF. GIVE ME A BREAK- IF YOUR NAIVE ENOUGH TO VOTE ON FANCY SPEACHES THAT DROP THE WORD CHANGE 10 TIMES A MINUTE AND YOU BELIEVE IT - YOU DESERVE WHAT YOU GET... NOTHING BUT ILLUSION. GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT PEOPLE, DONT LET THIS ELECTION BE LIKE THE LAST. JUST BECAUSE OBAMA IS BLACK DOES NOT MEAN HE IS MARTIN LUTHER KING OR A SAVIOUR OR A GREAT GUY. WHAT EVER HAPPENED TO COMMON SENSE?
I THINK THEY ONLY LOGICAL WAY TO RESOLVE THIS DEBATE IS FOR FLORIDA AND MICHIGAN TO RE-SCHEDULE NEW PRIMARIES FOR A RE-VOTE! WE'RE DEMOCRATS PEOPLE....SO LET'S LET EVERYBODY DECIDE!
I'm a Floridian - my vote was not going to help either Hillary or Obama or Edwards with the democratic nomination. Therefore, I simply chose not to vote. None of the candidates had an opportunity to talk to us and express their views and hopes for America.
The Florida primary results are skewed and do not represent the true vote. Clinton obviously had the advantage going into the FL primary - name recognition and name recognition alone. If I knew our votes could have counted, I would have made sure that my voice was heard.
When the DNC took away the Michigan and Florida delegages from this election they also lowered the number of delegates need to capture the nomination from 2,250 2,025. If Hillary wants the delegates seated then their numbers need to be added back into the number of delegages required for the nomination. Counting them on one side without adding them back in on the other side of the equation would be consistent with Hillary Clinton's methods, but it would violate basic common sense and be very deceitful. Oh wait! We are talking about Hillary Clinton here-what else could we expect?
If Clinton gets the Florida and Michigan delegates counted with out a new election in both states, I believe all of the independents in Florida and all of the independents & democratic voters of Michigan (because only Clinton was on the ballot) should file a suit against the NDC for not allowing our votes to be counted properly. This is disenfranchising us from our rights.
Florida Independents
FIrst and foremost all citizens have the right to have their votes counted and delgates counted. I think there is a better way to penailized for overstepping the rules..By the way, why did Mich and Fla agreed to have the dates changed. who advised them to do so? and why was this kept under wraps from the DNC. I dont understand what the rational for Fl and Mich changing the dates? and yet been given the stright truth.
Take a look at the numbers folks. Even if the votes are counted...Clinton still trails by more than 100 votes (with Edwards votes in his corner now). Even so, there are not enough delegates left to give her nor Obama a win. It's up to the super delegates, and Obama seems to have more support each day.
It's time to move on and look towards the general election. It's those that linger on matters that don't count that are slowing progress and destroying this country. It's not about your pride as a voter. Get over it and unite the party.
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