Democratic Convention Watch: Open Thread

Monday, February 11, 2008

Open Thread

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Who's going to win, who has a better chance against McCain, or whatever else is on your mind.

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We've opened a new Open Thread here

1017 comments:

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just_thinking said...: OBAMAS RECORD PLAIN AND SIMPLE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xqu3u9ISctA

YEP; February 18, 2008 7:09 PM
NO Obama said...: Of course make excuses for Obama.

You missed the point. If his words are borrowed, will his policies be borrowed too, or do they exist at all?

Where's the beef that Hillary has proven already she can deliver?; February 18, 2008 7:11 PM
NO Obama said...: Lou Dobbs has pounced on Michelle Obam's statement today that for the first time in her adult lifetime, she is really proud of this country?

Oh, REALLY? There has been nothing to REALLY be proud of before now? Hmmmmmmm....

I can think of dozens of things I was proud of until George Bush took over the WH.

I can be proud of our history and what many have sacrificed for our country...REALLY proud!

I guess Michelle Obama doesn't know history and thinks her husband, the plagiarizer is the be all and end all for this country.; February 18, 2008 7:16 PM
Protactinium said...: Hi carrie! I was thinking you just gave up on the blog. Glad to see your back. I am very intreasted in the fact of what your data, and your husband know about the health care issue. I am sure you might have more insight then me in this issue.

Also I do believe you have taken hate from anti Hillary people, and its a shame. I really hoped that this year may be diffrent , and people would actually vote on issues. However I was wrong some people only know how to hate. I also do appreciate that you are looking at the issues.

Time for Change you obviously do not know the issues, or you do not want to present them. Maybe because Hillary loses that fight.

Your are just a hateful person, and this is why Hillary is losing. Hillary is losing, because she says Obama presents no issues, but then neither does she. She just attacks his charecter.(btw everyone ones issues are on there website if you actually care enough to read)

As for this plagerzing thing. Deval is an endorser of Obama, and Obama and him have traded bit of speechs. Now this is a sign of desperation, because it has nothing to do with what he said.

Should it not be repeated by a million people if it is right? If your policy is right should it not be taken up by as many people as possible. This is called unification, something Hillary, and her supporters seem to have a problem doing.

Now go find some issues to hit Obama on. I know it is hard, because Hillary house is made of glass.

Oh and I heard once again that the Democratic insiders, will not let the delegates from MI, and FL come back. And Al Gore is going to get invovled to mediate the democratic party to a fair nomination. The democratics do not want to destroy there party. They may let the delgate split half and half to make them feel apart of it, but that is good as not counting them.; February 18, 2008 7:22 PM
Protactinium said...: Your quoting Lou Dobbs?? You do relize this is a democratic blog? I think you made a wrong turn. Go back to the red side of the fence. I now understand your hate poltics better. That is how republicans win. Jezze why do they keep letting those republican hate mongers on to here.; February 18, 2008 7:25 PM
NO Obama said...: Presenting to the American people that speeches and rhetoric, ideas and possible policies that come from those ideas are your own is simply FRAUD.

No way around it. Obama is self centered and wants all the glory.

Today I saw a republican strategist explain how they would "vet" Obama and what he said is just the tip of the iceberg about what they will smear Obama with.

He said with Hillary it is pretty much all out there....

Fools who think Obama is their saviour, rock star, or whatever he is to them are in for a very RUDE awakening if he is the nominee.; February 18, 2008 7:27 PM
Old City Jim said...: Bobby Kennedy also once said, “What is objectionable, what is dangerous, about extremists is not that they are extreme, but that they are intolerant. The evil is not what they say about their cause, but what they say about their opponents.”

I hope those of us who are privileged to express our views on this blog, on both sides, will take those words to heart. And I don’t care who said them originally.; February 18, 2008 7:29 PM
NO Obama said...: I'm an independent. And what Lou Dobbs said has some merit.

I have voted dem in most races due to no reputable independent candidate being brought forth to vote for.

People from all political demonitations occasonally do have ideas and opinion of merit.

I listen to all sides and accept or reject them.

You seem to listen to only one side.; February 18, 2008 7:30 PM
NO Obama said...: BTW, I'm quoting what Michelle Obama said and repeating what Lou Dobbs said about it more or less.

I happen to agree with him on this one.; February 18, 2008 7:33 PM
Anonymous said...: Protactinium,

"Oh and I heard once again that the Democratic insiders, will not let the delegates from MI, and FL come back. And Al Gore is going to get invovled to mediate the democratic party to a fair nomination. The democratics do not want to destroy there party. They may let the delgate split half and half to make them feel apart of it, but that is good as not counting them."

Your Buying Rumors The Party Rules Which Have Thus Far Kept Florida And Michigan Delegates Out Stipulate;

1) All Currently Qualified Delegates Will Vote As To The Question To Seat The Previously Disqualified Delegates

2) All Non-Binding (unpledged Delegate) Is Free To Vote The Interest They Believe Best Serves The Democratic Party

Remember That The Democratic Party Is A PRIVATE Institution, Meaning They Set Their Own Rules To Serve Party Interests Like A Union!The Delegates Do Not Owe Idaho And Alaska A Suicide Candidate If Thats What They Feel The Candidate Choosen IS, Not To Mention They Also Can Immediately CORRECT Rules Issues, Like Michigan And Florida!

As To Michigan And Florida Specifically, Anyone Who Thinks The Elected Officials Will Be DUMB Enough To Refuse Florida OR Michigan A Say In The Nominee, By Literally Shutting The 2 States Out Of The Convention, This Would Make The Nearly BANKRUPT FLORIDA Democratic Offices Totally Close, COMPLETE SACRAFICE OF THE STATES if they do not seat the delegates

As To The Issue Of Obama's Plagurism, Well He Is Nothing But Words, Weather They Are His Or Someone Else's That's All He Is!!!

If He IS Using Other Peoples Words It Wouldn't Surprise Me, Hasn't He Allready Had J.F.K. & Martin Luther King Jr. Exhumed?

Oh And Reagan TOO
LOL which reminds me

"This Message Was Approved By Ronald Reagan"; February 18, 2008 7:53 PM
NO Obama said...: Yep, Obama is all words and they aren't even his OWN!!

Imagine what the republicans will do with THAT one alone!; February 18, 2008 8:03 PM
Carrie said...: Protactinium -

Hey! Look! You totally blamed me and mine for the junk timeforchange was saying, and s/he's not even a Hillary supporter! Please don't say things about Clinton supporters any more. It's not my fault and it's not hers, just like it's not Obama's fault that I've had to put up with so much hate. Some people just like to stir the pot and watch it boil. It's the "let's you and him fight" game that makes it easy for the trickster to sneak up and win in the end.

Let's you and me ignore it. :)

On health care, you might want to look into issues of ER overcrowding and costs/consequences of unmanaged chronic diseases (like diabetics with poor sugar control or inadequate testing). Resolution of these issues and others like them are less tangible benefits of universal coverage, at least to the casual observer.

My husband and I debated the merits of electronic medical records (EMRs) and physician order entry, but we agreed by and large on mandates. Well, we agreed that mandates make good economic sense. We had an arguably inappropriate conversation about individuals who opt out in protest (rather than need). In our cranky, too-early-on-a-Sunday mood, we figured those selfish protesters ought to either 1) provide proof of adequate independent wealth to cover any emergent medical care; or 2) have DNR on a bracelet and necklace, maybe tattooed on their foreheads, etc., so that limited resources supported by the rest of us aren't dedicated to them. Pretty morbid way of thinking, but the fact is that most people who could afford health coverage with some minor sacrifices won't be able to cover emergency medical expenses. The reason we have insurance is to pool resources and share the risk. Probably sounds a little weird...But we see a lot of this in both our jobs. BTW - The scale of data I work with is pretty big. I was looking at data on four specific specialties the other day, and the dollars were in the tens of billions.

Oh! Speaking of $! I did look into the money contributed by the health care industry. It turns out those figures include money from employees of companies in the business. That would include my contributions! Drop in the bucket, but hey! I also learned that the big nurse's union backed Clinton, so I'm sure nurses are contributing - that's a good thing, as nurses are generally focused on the patients. The AMA is generally supportive of the plans laid out by both Clinton and Obama, so I'm sure Drs are contributing. My husband wants to do more reading, but is generally happy with what he's heard (even though it would probably mean less $ for him in his particular specialty and setting). Anyway, I know I'm biased, and I went in looking for the upshot. However, I am heartened by the fact that not all of that $ is coming from big health care business, but rather from the dedicated professionals who went into the industry for the right reasons. Likewise, I found that the $ coming from Exelon and Maytag includes employee contributions. Given the large support Obama earned in Illinois, I'm sure employees of those large companies are making significant contributions for the right reasons, too.
________

So, now I need to get some work done. I've been neglecting, well, pretty much everything. I haven't given up on the blog, but I think it was good for me to spend some time away and get some perspective. I was letting things get to me way too much, and it was making me sick (literally). I went to a Clinton rally in Toledo this weekend (Petra's first political rally :) ) and basked in the crowd of like-minded people who were focused on issues and cheering away. It felt good to be out of the ugliness you only get with the anonymity of the internet.

That said, I'll probably go a little lighter for a while - not because I don't appreciate our exchanges. I'm learning a lot that's helping me get comfortable with my decision to support Obama if he is the nominee. Hopefully I'm doing the same for you.

I just need to make sure I keep my little one in clean socks while I do what I can to support my candidate.

Peace.
-c

PS How cute is my daughter the drummer?!? ;-); February 18, 2008 9:35 PM
NO Obama said...: I am a Hillary supporter. I never have felt completely comfortable with Obama's preacher style rhetoric and now that I know he's a copy cat, I know why.; February 18, 2008 9:38 PM
Carrie said...: OK - before laundry, I have to slip in two more comments...

On plagiarism - I'm a Clinton supporter and would love to jump on the plagiarism bandwagon, but I realize all politicians have speech writers, so I'd never expect that all his words are his own. His talents lie in his delivery at least as much as his words. So, he happened to use a line that was not only written, but spoken by someone else. As long as he had permission, it wasn't cheating.

On Michelle Obama - She has said some of the most ridiculous things - out of meanness, manipulation or stupidity. I won't venture a guess as to which. However, several bibbits of MO speech beg the question, "What the *&($% did she think she was saying?"

I'm going to give Barack the benefit of the doubt and picture him smacking his forehead whenever she spouts off with that kind of nonsense. I'll repeat...she's just ridiculous sometimes! Argh! I hope someone helps her find some tact or self-control over what thoughts transfer to out-loud statements before she trots the globe representing us! Yikes!

Don't bother jumping on me with regards to Bill - I know, he's been ridiculous, too. Fortunately, he at least has some street cred with the world community.

Ah...What spouses will say in the interest of protecting and promoting their honeys!; February 18, 2008 10:02 PM
NO Obama said...: Having a speech writer is one thing. Borrowing rhetoric without giving the speaker credit is WRONG!

He has led people to believe he pretty much writes his own speeches so this is even more of a shocker!

Using "yes we can" for example by Hillary recently, everyone KNOWS she is playing on Barak's words she he makes this statement so often and recently.

I think Obama is somewhat intelluctually lazy kind of like the guy we have in the WH right now.

Mark my and others' words, if he gets the nomination, he will be eaten up and spit out by repubs.

I guess McCain isn't as bad as Bush. *sigh*; February 18, 2008 10:11 PM
NO Obama said...: For those who support Obama, TRY to be objective and think about this.

He has insipired millions with his rhetoric, created a movement, an hysterical following...

Only one problem though, the rhetoric is not his. It doesn't come from his heart, the core of his being, like most of his followers want to believe.

Believe that he is sincere and honest, a man of passion and compassion. He may be but only for himself.

Someone who would mislead people in this way by using words that he has led people to believe are his OWN (which is the main def. of plagiarism), is a FRAUD!! Period!; February 18, 2008 10:43 PM
NO Obama said...: http://edstrong.blog-city.com/barack_obama_spews_empty_rhetoric.htm; February 18, 2008 11:40 PM
NO Obama said...: Obama just announced he will deliver his "I Have a Dream Speech" on the steps of the Lincoln Memorial right after he gives his Address at Gettysburg. Tomorrow he says he's going to write the Declaration of Independence.; February 19, 2008 12:13 AM
Protactinium said...: Time you do relize Hillary stole "Fired Up and Ready to Go" from Obama right?

Shes a plagerist!!! What a thief. We should all vote for Mccain now. Please did you really link a blog site? So now you put up a link to a misleading hate ad. Now your putting up a blog site? Not very reliable as I have been told when putting up opinon pages against Hillary.(Valid Argument)

Hey time why don't you go to Obama's website. And look at his issues. Then say he is all rhetoric.

Why don't you think Objective? It is obvious you do not think objectivly because you actually have not argued the issues. What is there for an Obama supporter to think about? Oh there hate poltics against him I can not vote.

As for your speech stuff sounds an aweful like a republican. :-) Go take your Lou Dobbs loven self over to the Republican blogs. They will love your hate adds.

As for the the FL, and IL issue. We will see. Do not hold your breath. Living in a fairytale is your choice.; February 19, 2008 1:26 AM
Protactinium said...: Oh and thank you for the "yes we can" she stole that to.

So I think I understand. It is ok when YOUR canidite steals lines. But not anyone elses? Btw Deval was actually very aware of his speech and recommened it. Because it was right.

Hillary is a thief, and is playing hate poltics. Everyone vote for Mccain. Redicilous.

Oh and Mccain also stole Hillarys line. Ready on day one.

Please find a real issue. Hillary only made this an issue, because she has nothing better for dirt on him.

Good thing Obama is above this. Because Hillary is living in a glass house, and Mccain will shatter it.; February 19, 2008 1:31 AM
NO Obama said...: It's interesting how all you hot to trot Obama supporters get all "fired up" about Hillary being a plagiarist supposedly but don't think it's a big deal that Obama is one.

The difference is that the words Hillary used were OBVIOUSLY words used by other public speakers in recent speeches and were a play on what Obama has been saying. She was proving a point. If Obama says "Yes We Can" on his rhetoric, then certainly "Yes We Can" on my proposals and plans.

Duval and Obama conspired to use these words and phrases of Duval's in Obama's speeches and PASS THEM OFF to the unsuspecting publis as his own.

It is very sad that Barak & Michelle Obama have been give so many passes by the media on a number of things they've said.

The fact that Obama passes off words that are not entirely his own (and has led the public to beleive he writes his own speeches) is the POINT. That is a big part of plagiarism. Defrauding the public. If the words are not yours and you don't attribute them to Duval Patrick as in "As my friend Duval Patric has said many times......", then you are fooling the American people into thinking you have this unique, new, fresh mantra which is not really new at all.

Isn't this what is supposed to be the essence of Barak's campaign? He's supposedly new, fresh, has new, not old ideas, etc.? This turns out not to be true!!; February 19, 2008 1:38 AM
NO Obama said...: More Obama Plagiarism: When Obama said "We are the ones we've been waiting for," he should have prefaced it with "In the words of the poet June Jordan." Then I would have been moved instead of angry that he's uttering those powerful words out of context (also the title of an Alice Walker book, and a Sweet Honey in the Rock song, but June Jordan originally wrote them in her "Poem for South African Women."); February 19, 2008 1:49 AM
NO Obama said...: Barak should break out into song with the Begee's "Words" lyrics:

You think that I don't even mean
A single word I say
It's only words, and words are all I have
To steal your heart away

Yep, Obama is stealing your hearts with words that aren't even his own!; February 19, 2008 2:11 AM
Protactinium said...: Oh please. Your are truly nieve if you think that Hillary has never "stolen" another persons speech. And it is ok for her to steal words as long as your aware of it.

Obama and Duval "conspired?". Maybe you are a 90's clinton supporter. It is all a conspircy against your canidite. Obama admited to it when asked, and Duval said he told him to use them

That is not the defination of conspircy.

So if you are on the words of conspircy. Here is a video for you to watch.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Mnq5U9ovtaE

I know it may be two long for you because it is in 11 10 minute pieces. You said you could not read a whole thing because you got lost after the first paragraph.

So there is a Clinton smear video. It claims to be all documnted, and was made by a non-partisan group. Funny that your video is just pictures to cause anger. And mine is well a real investagation.

PS. I personally take this video with a grain of salt. But I am also not nieve enough to belive picture of black people in chicago are obama fault.

Again here is the link if you are to lazy to read it timeforhate.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Mnq5U9ovtaE; February 19, 2008 2:18 AM
Protactinium said...: Here is another video full of Clinton questionable actions.

This one I do believe 100%

http://youtube.com/watch?v=xq8aopATYyw

It is shorter so you may be able to keep your attention span to watch it.; February 19, 2008 3:41 AM
NO Obama said...: I never used the word conspiracy between Obama and Duval.

I said they consipred which means
to join or act together; combine.

Lofty words that make people join the movement which turn out to not be yours are fraudulent.

The fact that Obama has used MANY phrases and ideas in his speeches that aren't his own makes HIM a fraud.

He has presented himself as his own speechwriter, new, fresh, new ideas, hopeful ideas, idea ideas, etc. and they AREN'T EVEN HIS!!

The whole premise of his campaign is to be different, honest, open, transparent. Not true!; February 19, 2008 3:47 AM
NO Obama said...: "I feel sad having to expose Barack Obama," says Martin, "but the man is a complete fraud. The truth is going to surprise, and disappoint, and outrage many people who were drawn to him. He has lied to the American people, and he has sought to misrepresent his own heritage.

"Obama's life story is vastly different from the one he portrays. My point: if he will lie about his mother and father, what else is he lying about? Can we expect 'bimbo eruptions?'

"Fiction: Obama stated in his Convention speech: 'My father ... grew up herding goats.' The 'goat herder' claim has been repeated endlessly. It is a lie. Fact: Obama's grandfather, Hussein Onyango Obama was a prominent and wealthy farmer. His son, Obama's father, was a child of privilege, not privation. He was an outstanding student, not a herdsman.

Source: Andy Martin Worldwide Communications; February 19, 2008 3:59 AM
NO Obama said...: Referencing Obama's speech announcing run for the presidency:

From the first sentence, “Let me begin by saying thanks to all you who’ve traveled, from far and wide, to brave the cold today,” till the end, Obama’s speech is laced with metaphors that suggest he learned a lot of his rhetoric from Lord of the Rings. This extends to the actual content, too: as in a speech given by a king or a knight before a fight, Obama emphasizes leadership, the will to change, and good values.

from Word Press; February 19, 2008 4:15 AM
Protactinium said...: yep, and the Clintons are cocaine dealers, and murders. Deal with convited felons, and kick people out of office they do not like.

Watch the video. With a real investgation team, and dozens of witnesses. Including DEAs, and other various people. Alot more evidence in that video that your baseless claims of Obama being a fraud.

So we can play hate poltics.

Should be careful slandering Obama when Hillary lives in a glass house.

Come on grow up.; February 19, 2008 4:27 AM
Protactinium said...: You do not even remember what you wrote?

Here let me cut and paste for you.

"Duval and Obama conspired to use these words and phrases of Duval's in Obama's speeches and PASS THEM OFF to the unsuspecting publis as his own."

Conspired? That sounds like you said it to me. How are we supposed to trust someone who does not even know what he said? Maybe you should reraid what you say before posting.

Oh and learning the issues helps alot.; February 19, 2008 4:31 AM
Protactinium said...: LoL. I just actually took the time to read what you ignorantly posted.

I am working very late, and I am tired. But using the word "Conspired" sounds alot like you are trying to make like there plotting against people. Also you can take any candite and compare there words to many things.

Stop playing hate poltics, and learn the issues. Pity, so many people do not actually know the issues, and only know how to vote on hate. Sounds like a Hillary machine to me.; February 19, 2008 4:34 AM
NO Obama said...: protractium or whatever your name is, are you dense?

I used the word consipired NOT conspiracy which is the word you used.

Two entirely diff. connotations.

Conspire as a verb means to work together, to collaborate. Totally diff. than what you are trying to make it out to be.

Get a dictionary!; February 19, 2008 4:53 AM
Protactinium said...: Conspire websters dictinary. Here is my dictonary.

a: to join in a secret agreement to do an unlawful or wrongful act or an act which becomes unlawful as a result of the secret agreement

Inflected Form(s): con·spired; con·spir·ing

Also this is where the Hillary hate mongers go wrong(i know not all of you are hate mongers)

"From the first sentence, “Let me begin by saying thanks to all you who’ve traveled, from far and wide, to brave the cold today,” till the end, Obama’s speech is laced with metaphors that suggest he learned a lot of his rhetoric from Lord of the Rings. This extends to the actual content, too: as in a speech given by a king or a knight before a fight, Obama emphasizes leadership, the will to change, and good values."

You would imply Obama would steal lines for lord of the rings?

Hate Mongers when you get an issue you should run with it on that issue. Deval and Obama issue is a issue Hillary can run with for a few day until it gets old. No matter how stupid is is considering lots of polticans do it.

However when you start expanding it into a single line of a song, and compare it to lord of the rings. You lose a ton of credability, and all the non hate mongers relize your full of it.

Just stick with what you got and do not try expand it to far until it gets rediclous; February 19, 2008 4:58 AM
NO Obama said...: You left out the 2nd def. of conspire and context is very important. You interpret it the way YOU want to not the way it was meant. Conspire as in "they got together" and decided Obama could borrow his words. No matter that the public was fooled into thinking they were his own.

As far as Lord of the Rings goes, yes, he has used some of the very same ideas and concepts in his lofty speeches.

He turns out to be Lord of the Rhetoric using words that are not his own.

Since he is supposed to be this grandeous leader with lofty ideas and words to inspire, then wouldn't you say, the words should be his own?

His borrowed Deval words which Deval used to become gov. of MA have turned out to be empty rhetoric. Deval is a big failure like Obama would be!; February 19, 2008 5:22 AM
Protactinium said...: "Let me begin by saying thanks to all you who’ve traveled, from far and wide, to brave the cold today"

this your evidence that it was from lord of the rings? I am sure that is in 100 movies, and even more speechs. Give me a break. Its a very vauge comment.

And everyone knows why you used the word conspire vs plan, or collaborated. I see your using Rovian tatics now. Republican at heart I know.

Give me break. I am done arguing with you. You apparantly like a whole bunch of Hillary supporters know nothing of the issues.

Why don't you look them up.

Then give me something with substance.

What does your canidate actual standfor? And quit living in a fairytale thinking he has no better place to steal lines from other then lord of the rings.

Funny the same thing Hillary accused Obama supporters of, appear to be the same things that her supporters are guilty of.

Go get some substance. I am done arguing with you over stupid definations, and lord of the rings.

Come back with an issue, and then I will find it worth my time to respond.

I will see you on the republican side later this year. Because Hillary is preety much doomed. These type of Lord of the Ring tatics have ruined her.

As for Deval. I am betting that you know of next to nothing about him really. He is having some financial troubles in Mass, because he took over a over priced healthcare plan, that was left for him by Mitt Romney.

There I gave you some substance go run to the other blogs about how mass is having financial problem because of Deval.; February 19, 2008 5:42 AM
Carrie said...: Arrgh!

The Clinton campaign is not responsible for the accusation of "plagiarizing" Deval's "Just words" speech. I read her newsroom releases almost every day. The only statements on her site are a Wolfson reference to recycling rhetoric and her defense against Obama's backlash statements on the words she's "plagiarized".

What Wolfson said is this:
"If you use someone's words or someone's ideas I believe you should credit them. When Senator Obama uses them and doesn't acknowledge their origin, those same words seem less inspiring and more calculating."

He went on to the crux of his argument that:
"If you ask voters to judge you on the basis of promises and you break them, or on the basis of rhetoric and you lift it, there's not much else there," he said. He added, "We need someone who can come up with original, creative and bold solutions and not just someone who can copy someone else's homework."

The reference to breaking promises is in response to Obama's apparent retreat from his initial promise to take public funding in the general election.

What he's saying is not that Obama is plagiarizing, but that two of the cornerstones of Obama's campaign are his promises (particularly around Washington reform) and his powerful speeches - that if he's breaking those promises and borrowing poll-tested rhetoric (I borrowed that, by the way), his cornerstones suddenly seem a bit soft.

I do get this point: "Copying someone's homework" and turning it in as your own might not be plagiarism, but it is kind of lame. Paired with the issues around public campaign financing, Obama does seem to have hoist himself on his own petard here.

Anyhoo, it's the press that blew this up and cried, "plagiarism," not Wolfson/Clinton.

Man are they determined to pick fights!; February 19, 2008 6:36 AM
Anonymous said...: Carrie,
You Are So Right About The Plagurism, I Support Clinton And Feel This Plagurism Is Actually A Bit Overblown, It Is Only Relevant To Obama Because He Offers Us NOTHING But His Words, To Find They TOO Are Not His Is The ONLY Issue There.

I Am Interested Carrie In Learning Your Opinion Of The Statement Michelle Obama Made Yesterday, Where She Said
"For The First Time In My Lifetime, I Am Really Proud To Be An American"
Does This Mean If Barack Is Not Elected, Will She Be "ASHAMED" AGAIN?

I Know It's Petty, Little Word Issues, But With Obama There Has Been Such LITTLE Substance That Words Are All We Have To Examine.

Is It Wrong To Examine That Statement And Consider She And Barack Have No Interest In CONTINUING AMERICAN TRADITIONS Which WE ALL Have Been PROUD OF All Our Lives?; February 19, 2008 7:20 AM
just_thinking said...: obama, hope and change, or rhetoric and disappointment, to be or not to be, that is the question?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xqu3u9ISctA; February 19, 2008 8:02 AM
Protactinium said...: Carrie actually this time Hillary top aides of her campign, are going around to all media circuits saying look he is a phoney. Clinton campign did attack Obama on this issue. But hey that is poltics.

However that is all she did attack him on. As for the rest of the plaugerism garbage, well that is some of her supporters taking it to far.; February 19, 2008 10:02 AM
Protactinium said...: "I Know It's Petty, Little Word Issues, But With Obama There Has Been Such LITTLE Substance That Words Are All We Have To Examine."

You have yet to tell us what your canidite stands for. All you have to do is go to Obama's website and most of the issues are there. In fact so are Hillary on her website.

As for Michelle Obama. She definatly no politicion. She will never be able to sugar coat everything like needed in politcs these days. But I can not blame her. I have been ashamed of our politcal landscape for a while. Nothing but lies for 16 years now. Clinton lied under oath. Bush lied about the war in Iraq. Make America look like liars to the rest of the world. Our presidents have destroyed our crediability as a country.

Both partys have been running a hate machine to win. Not actual winning on merit.

But I think you would be once again expanding a semi-valid argument into rediclous by saying
"She And Barack Have No Interest In CONTINUING AMERICAN TRADITIONS Which WE ALL Have Been PROUD OF All Our Lives?" No one is going to destroy American traditions.

Unless you mean American traditions such as lieing, starting bogus wars. Those will end.; February 19, 2008 11:26 AM
Anonymous said...: "You have yet to tell us what your canidite stands for."

"As for Michelle Obama. She definatly no politicion. She will never be able to sugar coat everything like needed in politcs these days."

1) I Gave A Full Synopsis A Few Pages Back (Which I Personally Typed Out, But You Erroneously Disregarded As Something Lifted From A Webpage)

2) It's Statements Like
"She will never be able to sugar coat everything like NEEDED in politcs these days"
Which Should Be An Alarm In Your Head, That She Is Not CAPABLE Of Being What We NEED, At Least Not Right NOW, This Country Has International Duties For Any First Lady, And She MUST Live Up To Those, This Is Where Hillary Excelled I Might Add, Hillary Showed An Ability To Earn Deep Friendships With Allies Of The U.S., The Clintons Still PROUDLY Contribute Their Time And MONEY To Assist People In Need.

Not Only Is Hillary More Capable Than Barack As President But She Is Way More Capable As First Lady Than Michelle WILL EVER BE Too!; February 19, 2008 12:13 PM
Anonymous said...: "Clinton lied under oath. Bush lied about the war in Iraq. Make America look like liars to the rest of the world. Our presidents have destroyed our crediability as a country."

Holy Crap What A Republican Thing To Do You Are Trying To Compare Bill Clinton Lieing About A Blowj@$,
And ANYTHING That George Bush Did, Are You Nuts? It's The Republicans Who Made Too Much About A Personal Extramarital Affair The President Had, Give Me A Break J.F.K Was Scre#%#G Marilyn Monroe And Many Others, This Is A Morals Police Society That Keeps Screwing Up Because We Make So Much About Peoples Sex Lives And So Little Of What They Accomplish, Do Realize How Much You Dishonor Us All, Democrats Especially When You Try To Belittle The Accomplishments Of Bill Clinton, He Took An Enormous Debt And Did WHAT NO PRESIDENT EVER DID BEFORE, He CHANGED IT INTO A SURPLUS, Now Bush F$#@ED You And You Wanna Blame Bill Or Hillary Get Real!

Ask Yourself Does The Court Have The Right To Come To Your Door And Ask "are you F#$%ING Your Secretary" Without Having To Answer, Why It's EVEN RELEVANT?

And If In Front Of Your Wife And Teenage Daughter You Say "I Did Not Have Sexual Relations With That Woman"
Should I Hold It Against You, Especially In The Face Of INCREDIBLE Real Life ACCOMPLISHMENTS Like The Economy?

Sounds Like Your A Republican Proctonium Bringing Up That Ancient History. Which Isn't Directly About Hillary Or Any Of These ISSUES YOU CLAIM NOBODY ELSE TALKS ABOUT; February 19, 2008 12:38 PM
Protactinium said...: Ok. So if Michelle Obama is not what we need because she is not the greatest polticion. Then Bill Clinton, who used to be a former president, has said even more stupid stuff. So do we really need another Clinton in the white house??

As for comparing Clinton to JFK. Let me think. Oh yeah Clinton got Impeached for lieing under OATH. JFK did not. Clinton got smeared across the entire world, so everyone in the world knows he was a liar. Then are next prisdent. What does he do? LIES! JFK never lied under oath. I personally do not care if my president sleeps around as long as he does a good job. I mean if his women can't make him happy, these things will happen. It also appear him and Hillary have one of those relationships. It was not the first time he got nailed. His wife and kids where more then aware of his affairs, lets not be nieve now.

As for the economy. Clinton was just a doorman who happened to become prisdent during the great internet revolultion. Even Jimmy Carter would of looked like a hero in the 90's. Who by the way was the first prisdent to ever use an e-mail.

Sorry. But if you think we need a president that uses bully tatics to get what he wants. I disagree.

I would love to see a female president. However Hillary is not the right one. There will be another chance soon. I have seen a few ladies, such as goveners, that seem more then qualifed on there own mertis, and not there husbands. It will only be a few more years before the right women runs for president.; February 19, 2008 5:05 PM
Anonymous said...: Protactium,
Your Argument About Hillary Is Bill And It's Based On Some Morals Crime The Republicans Wanted To Hit Him With So They Could Derail Him From Doing Good Things For You And Me, And Your Repeating It Is Just More Of The Same.
Your Candidate Is NOT Ready To Deal With Crisis, Not Prepared To Handle Our Mutil-Billion Dollar Economy, Not Prepared To Deal With The Realities Of The International Community, Simply NOT READY.
I Have Faith This Party WILL NOT Nominate Him!

In A Few Short Weeks It Will Be YOU Deciding If You Will Vote For John McCain Or Hillary Clinton, Prepare Yourself.; February 19, 2008 5:20 PM
Protactinium said...: Oh I will for sure vote for Hillary. Then a republican senator(he is preety good). So that way nothing will get done. I would rather 4 years of nothing then 4 years of Mccain's nightmare. But prepare yourself. We will see what happens in wis. then we will see about the rest of the nation. Keep your dreams alive. But Hillary is done. :-) Have a great evening, enjoy the Obama win.

Oh and btw your argument that Bill is not Hillary fails, because you attack Obama because of his wife. Double standards?; February 19, 2008 6:27 PM
Protactinium said...: 9% republican vote in the Wis democartic Primary. Obama will stop this demographic.

Only 64% democratic, and 25% independant. Looks good for Obama!

Only 8% black 4% Hispanic. :-); February 19, 2008 6:30 PM
Protactinium said...: OH purjury is a FELONY. Not just some Moral issue.; February 19, 2008 6:32 PM
Anonymous said...: "OH purjury is a FELONY. Not just some Moral issue."

The Moral Issue Was Behind The Questioning To Begin With Which Led To The Trial In Which He Was FOUND NOT GUILTY, You Do Remember That Don't YOU?

"Oh and btw your argument that Bill is not Hillary fails, because you attack Obama because of his wife. Double standards?"

Bill Is Not Hillary Thats Fact It Doesn't Fail Anything!
My Point Was A Comparison Of First Lady Duties Which IS Relevant, Even Though You Disagree.

I Believe No Matter What That The Superdelegates WILL NOT Allow Barack To Become The Nominee, I Think They KNOW Exactly What A Win In IDAHO Means To The Democratic Party, NOTHING!

Again The Democratic Party Is A PRIVATE Institution It Only Has To Look Out For Itself!
They Don't Owe YOU Barack Obama, Just Because Idaho Agrees With YOU!; February 19, 2008 7:40 PM
Protactinium said...: Well if you consider a impeachment not guilty that is your progrative. However Bill Clinton was only the second president in American histroy to ever be impeached. GL! I will be looking foward to your whining after Obama take WIs by 10 or more points.; February 19, 2008 8:38 PM
Carrie said...: OK. If you haven't read this...this is a test of your ability-to-laugh-at-yourself system.

Obama supporters, remember this is only a test.

You have to appreciate it if for no other reasons than 1) it makes great use of the word ennui (great word), and 2) it refers to the Clinton campaign as the "Sitting Shiva for America Tour"...that's pretty clever.

Enjoy!
_______
February 19, 2008
OP-ED COLUMNIST
When the Magic Fades

By DAVID BROOKS
At first it seemed like a few random cases of lassitude among Mary Chapin Carpenter devotees in Berkeley, Cambridge and Chapel Hill. But then psychotherapists began to realize patients across the country were complaining of the same distress. They were experiencing the first hints of what s bound to be a national phenomenon: Obama Comedown Syndrome.

The afflicted had already been through the phases of Obama-mania fainting at rallies, weeping over their touch screens while watching Obama videos, spending hours making folk crafts featuring Michelle Obama s face. These patients had experienced intense surges of hope-amine, the brain chemical that fuels euphoric sensations of historic change and personal salvation.

But they found that as the weeks went on, they needed more and purer hope-injections just to preserve the rush. They wound up craving more hope than even the Hope Pope could provide, and they began experiencing brooding moments of suboptimal hopefulness. Anxious posts began to appear on the Yes We Can! Facebook pages. A sense of ennui began to creep through the nation s Ian McEwan-centered book clubs.

Up until now The Chosen One s speeches had seemed to them less like stretches of words and more like soul sensations that transcended time and space. But those in the grips of Obama Comedown Syndrome began to wonder if His stuff actually made sense. For example, His Hopeness tells rallies that we are the change we have been waiting for, but if we are the change we have been waiting for then why have we been waiting since we ve been here all along?

Patients in the grip of O.C.S. rarely express doubts at first, but in a classic case of transference, many experience slivers of sympathy for Hillary Clinton. They see her campaign morosely traipsing from one depressed industrial area to another The Sitting Shiva for America Tour. They see that her entire political strategy consists of waiting for primary states as boring as she is.

They feel for her. They feel guilty because the entire commentariat now treats her like Richard Nixon. Are liberal elites rationalizing their own betrayal of her? Is Hillary just another fading First Wife thrown away for the first available Trophy Messiah?

As the syndrome progresses, they begin to ask questions about The Presence himself:

Barack Obama vowed to abide by the public finance campaign-spending rules in the general election if his opponent did. But now he s waffling on his promise. Why does he need to check with his campaign staff members when deciding whether to keep his word?

Obama says he is practicing a new kind of politics, but why has his PAC sloshed $698,000 to the campaigns of the superdelegates, according to the Center for Responsive Politics? Is giving Robert Byrd s campaign $10,000 the kind of change we can believe in?

If he values independent thinking, why is his the most predictable liberal vote in the Senate? A People for the American Way computer program would cast the same votes for cheaper.

And should we be worried about Obama s mountainous self-confidence?

These doubts lead O.C.S. sufferers down the path to the question that is the Unholy of the Unholies for Obama-maniacs: How exactly would all this unity he talks about come to pass?

How is a 47-year-old novice going to unify highly polarized 70-something committee chairs? What will happen if the nation s 261,000 lobbyists don t see the light, even after the laying on of hands? Does The Changemaker have the guts to take on the special interests in his own party the trial lawyers, the teachers unions, the AARP?

The Gang of 14 created bipartisan unity on judges, but Obama sat it out. Kennedy and McCain created a bipartisan deal on immigration. Obama opted out of the parts that displeased the unions. Sixty-eight senators supported a bipartisan deal on FISA. Obama voted no. And if he were president now, how would the High Deacon of Unity heal the breach that split the House last week?

The victims of O.C.S. struggle against Obama-myopia, or the inability to see beyond Election Day. But here s the fascinating thing: They still like him. They know that most of his hope-mongering is vaporous. They know that he knows it s vaporous.

But the fact that they can share this dream still means something. After the magic fades and reality sets in, they still know something about his soul, and he knows something about theirs. They figure that any new president is going to face gigantic obstacles. At least this candidate seems likely to want to head in the right direction. Obama s hype comes from exaggerating his powers and his virtues, not faking them.

Those afflicted with O.C.S. are no longer as moved by his perorations. The fever passes. But some invisible connection seems to persist.; February 19, 2008 9:00 PM
Anonymous said...: "I will be looking foward to your whining after Obama take WIs by 10 or more points."

It Doesn't Appear That He Is Winning By 10 Points, But That Was Wishful Thinking Anyways.

I Reiterate I Believe Very Strongly The Democratic Party WILL NOT Choose Barack Obama, Ultimately They WILL Allow The Florida And Michigan Delegation To Be Seated And Then SINCE NEITHER CLINTON OR OBAMA CAN WIN 2025 PLEDGED DELEGATES(this is NOT possible), The Superdelegates Will Decide, And I Wholeheartedly Believe They Will Choose Hillary Clinton As The Democratic Party Nominee.

And If They Do Not I Still Have My Vote I Will Still Be Free To Take It Elsewhere Like I AM SURE Many Of Hillary's Supporters Will.

Someone Said Something Very Interesting On Msnbc, They Said "If She Were To Lose HER Votes Are Open To Go To McCain, But Baracks Votes Would Never Go To McCain, So The Democratic Party Has To Think About That", It's Very Interesting Because It's What I've Said All Along!

I Will Be Looking Forward To Your Whining When Barack Loses!; February 19, 2008 9:59 PM
MOJORISIN' said...: OBAMA TAKES WISCONSIN !!

This is what happens we you actually campaign in the state that is voting! And negative ads don't count. HAHAHA!

Come on HAWAII, you're next!

YES WE WILL!!; February 19, 2008 10:39 PM
Old City Jim said...: In reply to Carrie:

I hope to never lose the ability to laugh, especially at my Obama lovin self. And yes, ONN WEE is a cool word.

Via Rod Serling, I offer the following reply to David Brooks.

There is a 5th dimension, beyond that which is known to (GENERIC ALERT!) man. It is a dimension as vast as space, and as timeless as infinity. It is the middle ground between light and shadow, between science and superstition, and it lies between the pit of man’s fears, and the summit of his knowledge. This is the dimension of the audacity of hope. It is an area which we call, the Obama Zone.; February 19, 2008 10:42 PM
MOJORISIN' said...: Great quote Old City Jim! And exactly what is going on. Exactly.

Oh, and Obama actually is up by 15 POINTS over Clinton in Wisconsin, LittleMan. A Slam Dunk!

God, I love wishful thinking!!

YES WE CAN!; February 19, 2008 11:04 PM
MOJORISIN' said...: "Negativity is not intelligent. It is always of the ego. The ego may be clever, but it is not intelligent. Cleverness pursues its own little aims. Intelligence sees the larger whole in which all things are connected. Cleverness is motivated by self-interest, and it is extremely short-sighted. Most politicians and business people are clever. Very few are intelligent. Whatever is attained throught cleverness is short-lived and always turns out to be eventually self-defeating. Cleverness divides; intelligence includes." Eckhart Tolle "A New Earth" p.112; February 20, 2008 12:32 AM
Protactinium said...: Hey NY dem. Here is what i said.

"I will be looking foward to your whining after Obama take WIs by 10 or more points."

Here is what you said Anon NY

"It Doesn't Appear That He Is Winning By 10 Points, But That Was Wishful Thinking Anyways."

Hmm I have no idea what numbers you where looking at. You may not respect my political views. However I am very good at looking at exit poll demographics, and having a very good bet at the outcome.

I guess this just proves you are living in that fairytale Bill was talking about.

Obama wins by 15%. :-) Big win, should swing a decent amount of delegates.

Carrie, and others that I do respect. I have been reading what I should stop fighting with the hate mongers because they only make me look as bad as they do. So I am going to start my own blog soon, and quit arguing with them. There is no point. Hope to see you there soon. :-); February 20, 2008 1:08 AM
MOJORISIN' said...: HAWAII: with 8% reporting:

Obama 77% 2886

Clinton 23% 666

Now her number a sign or what!
YIKES!; February 20, 2008 3:39 AM
Protactinium said...: Mojo! I saw it at the excat same time you did off of Cnn. I was going to say something but i figured people would think i was just smearing.

So mojo, you told me to get off this site. got any other places that are better?; February 20, 2008 4:32 AM
Anonymous said...: "I will be looking foward to your whining after Obama take WIs by 10 or more points."

Only An Idiot Would Think DELEGATES ARE POINTS

10 points = Percentage
Get It Percentage points.

In Fact He Won 11 More DELEGATES, But ONLY Gained 8% (Percentage) POINTS.

I Dunno What Planet (or Video Game)You Live On But People (delegates) ARE NOT Points. (Delegates = people)

I Reiterate I Believe Very Strongly The Democratic Party WILL NOT Choose Barack Obama, Ultimately They WILL Allow The Florida And Michigan Delegation To Be Seated And Then SINCE NEITHER CLINTON OR OBAMA CAN WIN 2025 PLEDGED DELEGATES(this is NOT possible), The Superdelegates Will Decide, And I Wholeheartedly Believe They Will Choose Hillary Clinton As The Democratic Party Nominee.

And If They Do Not I Still Have My Vote I Will Still Be Free To Take It Elsewhere Like I AM SURE Many Of Hillary's Supporters Will.; February 20, 2008 6:38 AM
just_thinking said...: obama, hope and change, or rhetoric and disappointment, to be or not to be, that is the question?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xqu3u9ISctA

Yep; February 20, 2008 6:42 AM
Old City Jim said...: 1. Here are some people numbers. Wisconsin People. Obama = 654,554 Clinton = 452,590. Margin = 201,964

2. The biggest thing either Clinton or Obama has ever run in their lives is the
campaigns they are running now. Clinton has 35 years experience, and was at her husband’s side for his every move during his two successful presidential
campaigns, and numerous (5, 6?) gubernatorial campaigns. Obama is
inexperienced and has no Senate accomplishments. How’s it working out so far?

3. Obama speaks with words. English words. Words that other English speakers speak, or have spoken. There is at times some overlap between the words he
speaks and the words others have spoken. An incredible number of people DON’T CARE. See point one. (Until Obama perfects the telepathy thing, it will
continue to be so.)

4. Most Clinton supporters are Democrats. Most Democrats will prefer Obama to McCain on policies both foreign and domestic. You’ll also like his Supreme Court picks better.; February 20, 2008 8:25 AM
Anonymous said...: Numbers Ok Lets Examine Some more, shall we:

Alabama Touted By Obama Supporters As A Big Southern Win

Obama 302,684 (or 56%)
Clinton 226,454 (or 42%)
Edwards 7,933 (or 1%)
Kucinich 2,672 (or 1%)

Looks Like A Big Blow Out For Barack Huh, Well Not So Fast, Look Closer:

Total Democratic Votes Cast 539,743

Now Lets Look At The Republicans

Huckabee 230,608 (or 41%)
McCain 210,989 (or 37%)
Romney 103,295 (or 18%)
Paul 15,454 (or 3%)
Giuliani 2,224 (or 1%)
Uncommitted 1,252 (or 0%)

TOTAL REPUBLICAN VOTES CAST 563,822

539,743(D) or 563,822(R)
I Guess When You Put It Into Perspective, The Real Truth Shows,
YES Obama Beat Hillary In Alabama But REPUBLICANS BEAT OBAMA AND CLINTON.(but i'm sure you still want us to count that As A Win For Obama TOO Right?)

"At The End Of The Day There Is No Victory, Only Another Struggle"

Hopefully The Superdelegates Will Be Provided With These Numbers, Before They Allow "Obama Fever" To Give Us 8 More Years Of Republican Presidency!; February 20, 2008 9:21 AM
MOJORISIN' said...: LittleMan:

Your words: "It Doesn't Appear That He Is Winning By 10 Points, But That Was Wishful Thinking Anyways."

These are your own words you idiot! Why do you think I capped it! God, you are seriously delusional.; February 20, 2008 9:46 AM
Anonymous said...: This Was Great It Was A Barack Obama Supporter, That The Obama Campaign Choose To Prop Up On MSNBC Last Night To Speak About Obama, After His Win In Wisconsin.

This Was Definately Worth The Time To Watch!
Check It Out:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZTo0iGc_Dw; February 20, 2008 10:02 AM
Old City Jim said...: Dear Anon in NY

I do not understand the point of your Alabama numbers. Is it that Obama got 76,000 more votes than Clinton? That Huckabee got more votes than Clinton? That Alabama is crucial to the Dems 2008 electoral strategy? What exactly is the point that superdelegates should take from these numbers?; February 20, 2008 10:16 AM
Anonymous said...: "These are your own words you idiot! Why do you think I capped it! God, you are seriously delusional."

Who Knows Why You Choose to do anything mojosinking!

I Dunno Why Any Of You WASTE Your Time With Each LITTLE State Primary, BECAUSE NEITHER Candidate CAN WIN OUTRIGHT, They Can ONLY ACHIEVE 2025 With SUPERDELEGATES

Meaning Howard Dean And The Democratic Party ESTABLISHMENT WILL Choose The Nominee Period!

You Act As If His Caucus Wins Mean ANYTHING AT ALL, THEY DO NOT! (they took place in mostly red states, which we WILL lose to republicans anyway)

In Fact Most Of His "RED STATE" Wins Will No Doubt Be IGNORED, Exception Of Georgia Which He Has Proven He Can Turn Blue, But This Is Negated By The Fact She Can Turn; Arkansas, Oklahoma, And Tennessee Blue.
Hillary Is Also The Only One WITH A CHANCE Of Winning Florida, And YES HE CAN LOSE NEW YORK (31 Electorates/ Her Home State)And before you even suggest it illinois is only 21 electorates, a full 6 LESS Than The Importance of Florida

Adding Up REALITY Might Look Like Diahrea On HOPE AND CHANGE

Currently for November Hillary Has Proven She Would Win 262 Electorals (270 Needed To Win) Versus Barack Obama At 195 (I Even Threw Him Georgia As A Certainty For CHARITY)

Hope In One Hand, Crap In Another, See Which One FILLS First!; February 20, 2008 10:24 AM
Anonymous said...: old city jim,
"I do not understand the point of your Alabama numbers. Is it that Obama got 76,000 more votes than Clinton? That Huckabee got more votes than Clinton? That Alabama is crucial to the Dems 2008 electoral strategy? What exactly is the point that superdelegates should take from these numbers?"

The Point Is Obama Is Claiming Victory Over Hillary In This State But Obama Is Losing To The Republicans In This Same States, There Are Many More Of His Wins Much Like This, That Was Just An Example, In Most Blue States She Picks Up Bigger Majorities, Blue States Like The Ones Al Gore Won (2000) Are Our Base States!

A Map Showing Those State Can Be Found Here:
Notice The Numbers(electorate) That Is The VALUE Of The State In Terms Of Winning The Presidency.
(note some numbers have only slightly Changed Since Redistricting/find current map at bottom link)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:ElectoralCollege2000-Large.png

Either One Of Them MUST Show The Ability To Win The Majority Of These Blue States Plus Add (at least florida which would have made al gore the winner!)

(2008 electorate Map:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Electoral_map.svg
); February 20, 2008 10:45 AM
NO Obama said...: Old City Jim, It really doesn't matter at this point. Obama is slick and he is impressive when he speaks. It has less to do with running a campaign than it does with charisma, rock star mentality (of the voters), and that sort of thing.

Republicans are less impressed with all this and want the bare bones issues to be the main criteria.

I saw Cindy McCain speak yesterday for the first time and I'd much rather see her be first lady than loose cannon Michelle(I'm impressed with myself a lot like my husband is with himself) Obama.

I am sure that whoever is elected will not make much of a difference in my life and at this stage (61), I think I will go with my heart rather than too many of the issues since as I said, I won't be affected.

For years I haven't been affected by abortion issues obviously myself. I've always been on the side of pro choice and still am, but to be selfish, since it won't affect me anymore, I don't care that much (as an issue to vote for or agains). I don't want to see Roe v. Wade overturned, but if it happens, oh well......

I also think that although I didn't support the war, like McCain, it will be MANY years before we can withdraw significant #'s of troops from Iraq because no matter what we do (until we get the Iraqi army up to our level), the void will be filled by Iran going to war with Iraq and winning.

In addition, the void will be filled with Al Qaeda and other terrorists.

So, since those were my two main issues, and I don't really care much anymore, I think I may go with McCain.

This is how much Obama has ticked me off (for many reasons I won't go into here). He has made this avowed independet who SWORE NEVER to vote republican again (last time was the first and only term of George Sr.).

Many people who are jumping up and down about pretty vs. mundane, rockstar vs. a real working candidate, etc. will be sorely disappointed in Nov. I'm afraid.

Hillary would be ahead by a lot right now if the caucuses (which I think are outrageous ways of selecting candidates) didn't exist and the popular vote were the way all primaries were done.; February 20, 2008 1:58 PM
Unknown said...: Two thoughts:

1) Can we get a link to this open thread on the left nav bar on the home page?

2) Have you seen Hillary's propaganda at www.delegatehub.com. Much nonsense there, like talk of "automatic delegates", inflated magic numbers for nomination, opinions stated as facts. You can either view it as funny or sad.; February 20, 2008 2:54 PM
Anonymous said...: Wanna See What Barack Obama Has Done To Make YOUR Life Better? :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZTo0iGc_Dw

a; February 20, 2008 4:14 PM
shelby said...: Timeforchange-
Your post echoes not just disgusted Independents, but lifelong Democrats such as myself. I couldn't agree more.

In almost every presidential election, there are statements that come back to haunt the candidates. Read my lips, etc.
For Obama, it will surely be his statement that he can get Hillary's supporters but she cannot get his.

There is a sense of arrogance and entitlement in the Obama campaign as evidenced by his wife's comments. The Republicans will have a field day with that sort of red meat.; February 20, 2008 4:54 PM
Protactinium said...: Ny dem said,
"I Dunno Why Any Of You WASTE Your Time With Each LITTLE State Primary, BECAUSE NEITHER Candidate CAN WIN OUTRIGHT, They Can ONLY ACHIEVE 2025 With SUPERDELEGATES

Meaning Howard Dean And The Democratic Party ESTABLISHMENT WILL Choose The Nominee Period!"

You are truly nieve. It is over. You are starting to sound desprate.

PS. Did any one see that fact that 52% of voter said Hillary is unfairly attack Obama. Keep posting the videos.

National polls show Hillary has droped down to 38% against Obama in National. She has lost he lead to Obama in Texas. Sorry You are living in a fairtytale

The pary establistment will not go against the will of the people. Put a fork in Hillary. She is done.; February 20, 2008 4:56 PM
Protactinium said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; February 20, 2008 5:01 PM
Protactinium said...: Shebly said
"Timeforchange Your post echoes not just disgusted Independents, but lifelong Democrats such as myself. I couldn't agree more."

Yeah Shelby even Pat Buchannan agree's with so does many republicans. He said Hillary supporters can be stolen by the republicans in the generals. However Obamas will stay loyal to him not matter what. GL vote for Mccain. :-) There are many more indepdents breaking or Obama, and even more Republicans.

Obama will peel away independants and republicans, the same way he has peeled away latinos, white women, and middle class. :-)

Btw polls show Obama leading among national hispanics. 52-48%

I will see you on the republican fence voting for BOMB BOMB BOMB.

Oh and Hillary also has fallen to like 34% against mccain in nation polls. Her campign is self-destructing.; February 20, 2008 5:03 PM
Old City Jim said...: Timeforchange

ABORTION
I am 55, and a man. But I do have a daughter. And a niece. And friends. And friends with daughters, etc. I don’t want to need to drive them to Montreal, e.g.

IRAQ
There are ways to withdraw troops from Iraq and ensure that Iran does not attack them. Carrot and stick diplomacy usually works. It’s why it makes sense to be willing to speak with Iranian leaders. The War in Iraq has inspired more terrorism than it has prevented. While the McCain Bush surge has resulted in reduced levels of violence temporarily, the strategy has caused our military to be pinned down in Iraq, at increased troop levels, for the rest of Bush’s presidency. If McCain is elected, Bush’s third term will be no better than the first two.

MISC.
Hillary knew there were caucuses on the schedule, she simply had no caucus strategy. Not a good indication of leadership, strategy, or the stuff we expect from a president.
There are three rock stars in the Dem part, and two of them are named Clinton.
And finally, we both have decades left, Ms. Change, so cheer up and get your smooth on!; February 20, 2008 5:43 PM
shelby said...: Protactinium-
Your post makes no sense grammatically or as a refutation to my post. Do you even read posts before launching into your nonsensical replies?

Your statement about Buchanan saying Hillary supporters will go Republican actually makes my point. But that is not Obama's contention- he thinks his charm is so awesome that all Democrats will eventually come around.

Please at least proofread your blather before spilling more of it.; February 20, 2008 5:50 PM
NO Obama said...: shelby, Yes, Obama and his wife seem to feek entitled and quite impressed with themselves.

I don't like their arrogance and self importance.

Last night Obama said in his victory speech re: Wisconsin that he was not a perfect vessel. Vessel? Is he Jesus Christ himself?

On a side note, I just heard CNN survey that because Obama is a black man, many white male voters will cross over and vote for McCain.

As I said, I as a 61 yr. old female voter may do that also.

I don't think the Obama frenzy will hold up for the general election.; February 20, 2008 6:14 PM
NO Obama said...: Protactinium,

Hey stop with the caps on every other word. It is very difficult to read.

If you Obama groupies can vote for him for irrational reasons, then I can vote for McCain (probably).

I kinda like that song, btw.

Bar, bar, bar, bar, barbra ann! From my generations! Go Beach Boys!; February 20, 2008 6:26 PM
NO Obama said...: Hey Bomber,

McCain is tering into Obama and indicated that last August, Obama suggested bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb Pakistan.; February 20, 2008 6:32 PM
NO Obama said...: Old City Jim

The difference is that McCain is a lot more honest and forthright than Bush, whom I simply cannot stand.

I could live with him I think. I'll have to hear more and refresh my memory about things McCain has said but I am seriously considering him.; February 20, 2008 6:39 PM
Old City Jim said...: To all those who make predictions about what voters will do in November, which is still like 8 ½ months from now, I would ask: How have your previous predictions done?
I like Patrick J. Buchanan, but certainly not because of his beliefs on policy or his predictive abilities. I like him for his sense of humor.

As I said in a post awhile back, if Sen. Clinton had voted against the Iraq War, no one would have ever asked Sen. Obama if he was thinking about running for Pres.

I am predicting a 55% + Obama general election popular vote, carrying several red states, and working Dem. majorities in both houses of Congress. And Supreme Court Justices that will not rubber stamp the civil rights abuses of the Bush years. And MY predictions have turned out pretty good, so far.

PS If you like Beach Boys, check out their album, Holland. Sweet.; February 20, 2008 6:51 PM
MOJORISIN' said...: time for change said: "I saw Cindy McCain speak yesterday for the first time and I'd much rather see her be first lady than loose cannon Michelle(I'm impressed with myself a lot like my husband is with himself) Obama."

I hate to bust your bubble. Cindy McCain was addicted to pills not to long ago for several years. Not only abusing several different kinds at once, but she STOLE these pills from the company she was heading at the time and got CAUGHT. Sorta like Limbaugh, only worse. McCain is desperate to keep this from making headlines AGAIN and I was shocked to even hear sounds coming out of her mouth. She has now opened her own can of worms which will come back to haunt her in a couple months. She is no longer off limits, which is good. And wait until McCain's infidelities come back to light, you think Clinton was bad, McCain is the devil. Ever wonder where his kids are that he had with his first wife? Ever seen them or heard quotes from them? No, you haven't, but you will soon. Go ahead, vote for McCain, all of you idiots crying that you're going to vote for McCain if Barack becomes the Dem nominee, go right ahead. You're all RACISTS, pure and simple. There are several posts on here actually stating the difference on issues between Barack and Clinton, but you don't even read them. You're so consumed with racism that your brain won't allow even an inkling of intelligence to come through. What a sad little life you must lead. And you will be miserable for the next eight years because an intelligent black man and his intelligent wife will be our first family. That's all it's about with you. Get a life.....; February 20, 2008 6:55 PM
NO Obama said...: MOJORISIN'

Have life, thank you!

Why should I care about all that re: Cindy McCain (if true) when Obama supporters excuse all his shortcomings?

Hmmmmmm....?

As I said, I have as much right to vote for McCain and his sortcomings as you do for Obama.; February 20, 2008 7:04 PM
shelby said...: Oh please. If the public will overlook the cocaine use of a Presidential candidate it will not bat an eyelash at a spouse's use of pills. First ladies and pill use? Wow, that's new! Betty Ford put that all to bed a long time ago; February 20, 2008 7:06 PM
NO Obama said...: Teamsters endorsed Obama because they want to have a voice in the Obama campaign but disagree with him very much on his illegal immigration stance.

You see, endorsements aren't always pure and often self serving.

Do those of you who support Obama agree with him on illegal immigration? I don't. Do you even know what his position is?; February 20, 2008 7:06 PM
NO Obama said...: I think Michelle Obama is unattractive and Cindy McCain is very elegant looking and has SUPER clothes! Wow! Great first lady look!; February 20, 2008 7:08 PM
MOJORISIN' said...: In case you missed it:

Let's take a look at the "experience" of Senator Clinton vs. Senator Obama:

Senator Clinton, who has served only one full term - 6yrs. - and another year campaigning, has managed to author and pass into law - 20 - twenty pieces of legislation in her first six years.

These bills can be found on the website of the Library of Congress www.thomas.loc.gov, but to save you trouble, I'll post them here for you.

1. Establish the Kate Mullany National Historic Site.

2. Support the goals and ideals of Better Hearing and Speech Month.

3. Recognize the Ellis Island Medal of Honor.

4. Name courthouse after Thurgood Marshall.

5. Name courthouse after James L. Watson.

6. Name post office after Jonn A. O'Shea.

7. Designate Aug. 7, 2003, as National Purple Heart Recognition Day.

8. Support the goals and ideals of National Purple Heart Recognition Day.

9. Honor the life and legacy of Alexander Hamilton on the bicentennial of his death.

10. Congratulate the Syracuse Univ. Orange Men's Lacrosse Team on winning the championship.

11. Congratulate the Le Moyne College Dolphins Men's Lacrosse Team on winning the championship.

12. Establish the 225th Anniversary of the American Revolution Commemorative Program.

13. Name post office after Sergeant Riayan A. Tejeda.

14. Honor Shirley Chisholm for her service to the nation and express condolences on her death.

15. Honor John J. Downing, Brian Fahey, and Harry Ford, firefighters who lost their lives on duty. Only five of Clinton's bills are, more substantive. 16. Extend period of unemployment assistance to victims of 9/11.

17. Pay for city projects in response to 9/11 18. Assist landmine victims in other countries.

19. Assist family caregivers in accessing affordable respite care.

20. Designate part of the National Forest System in Puerto Rico as protected in the wilderness preservation system.

There you have it, the fact's straight from the Senate Record.

Now, I would post those of Obama's, but the list is too substantive, so I'll mainly categorize.

During the first - 8 - eight years of his elected service he sponsored over 820 bills. He introduced

233 regarding healthcare reform,

125 on poverty and public assistance,

112 crime fighting bills,

97 economic bills,

60 human rights and anti-discrimination bills,

21 ethics reform bills,

15 gun control,

6 veterans affairs and many others.

His first year in the U.S. Senate, he authored 152 bills and co-sponsored another 427. These inculded **the Coburn-Obama Government Transparency Act of 2006 - became law, **The Lugar-Obama Nuclear Non-proliferation and Conventional Weapons Threat Reduction Act, - became law, **The Comprehensive Immigration Reform Act, passed the Senate, **The 2007 Government Ethics Bill, - became law, **The Protection Against Excessive Executive Compensation Bill, In committee, and many more.

In all, since entering the U.S. Senate, Senator Obama has written 890 bills and co-sponsored another 1096.

An impressive record, for someone who supposedly has no record according to some who would prefer that this comparison not be made public.

He's not just a talker.

He's a doer.; February 20, 2008 7:10 PM
Old City Jim said...: I agree that Cindy McCain is a hottie. Do you think her and Mitt Romney have a love child? Now that would be a good lookin kid.

I am so off this blog!; February 20, 2008 7:36 PM
MOJORISIN' said...: Because I know you won't go read for yourselves:

In 1989, Cindy McCain became addicted to opioid painkillers such as Percocet and Vicodin. She later attributed her addiction to pain following two spinal surgeries for ruptured discs as well as emotional stress during her husband's entanglement in the Keating Five scandal of that time, which also involved her role as a bookkeeper who had difficulty finding receipts of Keating-related expenses. The addiction progressed to the point where she resorted to stealing drugs from her own AVMT. During 1992, Tom Gosinski, the director of government and international affairs for AVMT, discovered her drug theft. Subsequently in 1992, McCain's parents staged an intervention to force her to get help; she told her husband about her problem, attended a drug treatment facility, began outpatient sessions, and ended her three years of addiction; a hysterectomy in 1993 resolved her back pain. In January 1993, McCain terminated Gosinski's employment on grounds of budgetary reasons. In spring 1993, Gosinski tipped off the Drug Enforcement Administration to investigate McCain's drug theft. Her activities violated federal statutes, so a federal investigation was conducted. McCain's defense team, led by Washington lawyer John Dowd, secured an agreement with the U.S. Attorney's office that limited her punishment to financial restitution and enrollment in a diversion program, without anything being made public.

This is what you have to look forward to with the McCains'. And it pretty sad to compare a college kid's drug experiment (in which none of his friends even knew about) with two crooked professionals like the McCains'.; February 20, 2008 7:45 PM
MOJORISIN' said...: RIGHT NOW, ON MSNBC THEY HAVE BREAKING NEWS ABOUT AN AFFAIR BETWEEN MCCAIN AND VICKI ISEMAN, ONE OF HIS LOBBYIST. YOU SEE.
HOW FUNNY!!; February 20, 2008 7:47 PM
NO Obama said...: Oh, well, so McCain is no different than about 99.9% of politicians.

8 years ago? Anything contemporary/recent?; February 20, 2008 7:50 PM
MOJORISIN' said...: SEE YA CINDY and your clothes. UGH!!!; February 20, 2008 7:52 PM
MOJORISIN' said...: Huckabee knew! That's why he stayed in!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!; February 20, 2008 7:57 PM
shelby said...: Oh yes- a presidential candidate's youthful cocaine experimentation is so much more "noble" than a woman in physical pain from spinal surgeries. This is the type of "cult of personality" defense that will turn off America in November- or sooner.

Sorry to say, but once again we Democrats will snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. Tough enough for a liberal Democrat to win the presidency - but with friends like Obama has here, who needs enemies?; February 20, 2008 8:35 PM
Anonymous said...: MOJOSINKIN"
Why Don't You Just Get Over It SLOBama Is Being Exposed For The NOTHING He Is!

you will sink to all time lows claiming cindy mccain pops pills while obama does line, get real!

I Also Notice In Your Idiotic Comparison That You Include What Barack Obama Did Before He Entered The Senate, But Fail To List Hillary's Accomplishments Correctly!

Clinton served on the boards of the Arkansas Children's Hospital Legal Services (1988–1992) and the Children's Defense Fund (as chair, 1986–1992). In addition to her positions with non-profit organizations, she also held positions on the corporate board of directors of TCBY (1985–1992), Wal-Mart Stores (1986–1992) and Lafarge (1990–1992).TCBY and Wal-Mart were Arkansas-based companies that were also clients of Rose Law. Clinton was the first female member on Wal-Mart's board, added when chairman Sam Walton was pressured to name one; once there, she pushed successfully for the chain to adopt more environmentally-friendly practices, pushed for more women to be added to the company's management

She was the first First Lady to hold a post-graduate degree, She is regarded as the most openly empowered presidential wife in American history, save for Eleanor Roosevelt.

In 1993, Bill Clinton appointed Hillary Clinton to head and be the chairwoman of the Task Force on National Health Care Reform, hoping to replicate the success she had in leading the effort for Arkansas education reform. The recommendation of the task force became known as the Clinton health care plan, a comprehensive proposal that would require employers to provide health coverage to their employees through individual health maintenance organizations. The plan was quickly derided as "Hillarycare" by its opponents; some protesters against it became vitriolic, and during a July 1994 bus tour to rally support for the plan, she was forced to wear a bulletproof vest at times. The plan did not receive enough support for a floor vote in either the House or the Senate, although both chambers were controlled by Democrats. Opponents of universal health care would continue to use "Hillarycare" as a pejorative label for similar plans by others.

She was the major force behind the State Children's Health Insurance Program in 1997, a federal effort that provided state support for children whose parents were unable to provide them with health coverage. She promoted nationwide immunization against childhood illnesses and encouraged older women to seek a mammogram to detect breast cancer, with coverage provided by Medicare. She successfully sought to increase research funding for prostate cancer and childhood asthma at the National Institutes of Health. The First Lady worked to investigate reports of an illness that affected veterans of the Gulf War, which became known as the Gulf War syndrome. Together with Attorney General Janet Reno, Clinton helped create the Office on Violence Against Women at the Department of Justice. In 1997, she initiated and shepherded the Adoption and Safe Families Act, which she regarded as her greatest accomplishment as First Lady. As First Lady, Clinton hosted numerous White House Conferences, including ones on Child Care (1997), Early Childhood Development and Learning (1997), and Children and Adolescents (2000), and the first-ever White House Conferences on Teenagers (2000) and Philanthropy (1999).

Hillary Clinton traveled to 79 countries during this time, breaking the mark for most-travelled First Lady held by Pat Nixon. In a September 1995 speech before the Fourth World Conference on Women in Beijing, Clinton argued very forcefully against practices that abused women around the world and in China itself, declaring "that it is no longer acceptable to discuss women's rights as separate from human rights" and resisting Chinese pressure to soften her remarks. She was one of the most prominent international figures at the time to speak out against the treatment of Afghan women by the Islamist fundamentalist Taliban that had seized control of Afghanistan. She helped create Vital Voices, an international initiative sponsored by the United States to promote the participation of women in the political processes of their countries.

Clinton initiated and was Founding Chair of the Save America's Treasures program, a national effort that matched federal funds to private donations for the purpose of preserving and restoring historic items and sites.

THIS IS JUST BEFORE SHE BECAME A SENATOR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Mojo I Have To Say, Yer Full o' Crap; February 20, 2008 9:09 PM
Anonymous said...: Oh And One Of MANY Thing You Left Out From That SENATE Record:

Clinton has served on five Senate committees: Committee on Budget (2001–2002), Committee on Armed Services (since 2003), Committee on Environment and Public Works (since 2001), Committee on Health, Education, Labor and Pensions (since 2001) and Special Committee on Aging. She is also a Commissioner of the Commission on Security and Cooperation in Europe (since 2001).

Following the September 11, 2001 attacks, Clinton sought to obtain funding for the recovery efforts in New York City and security improvements in her state. Working with New York's senior senator, Charles Schumer, she was instrumental in quickly securing $21 billion in funding for the World Trade Center site's redevelopment. She subsequently took a leading role in investigating the health issues faced by 9/11 first responders

AND THATS ALL BEFORE BARACK BECAME A U.S. SENATOR, Get The Facts Straight.; February 20, 2008 9:24 PM
NO Obama said...: It doesn't seem fair in this country that we teach our kids (supposedly) to work hard, pay your dues, and eventually you will achieve what you want.

But that really isn't true at all.

If you have rock star qualities, you can become president.

Nevermind the hardworking woman who has more than paid her dues and who has fought most of her adult life to champion better healthcare for children and so much more.

We have proven for the past 8 years what this type mentality can bring to the highest office in the land, ie George Bush, the anointed frat boy.

I guess most voters in this country will never learn and don't really care.; February 20, 2008 9:35 PM
MOJORISIN' said...: Hey LittleNub:

"you will sink to all time lows claiming cindy mccain pops pills while obama does line, get real!"

It's a fact, Jack!

Like I said before, you don't research before vomiting all over this site. When you copy/paste, do you even read what you post???
Hint: When you copy/paste, don't forget to go back and CAP every single word, little nub!

We were talking legislature, not traveling plans and hosting parties.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!; February 20, 2008 9:48 PM
Anonymous said...: ""you will sink to all time lows claiming cindy mccain pops pills while obama does line, get real!"
It's a fact, Jack!"

Absolutely It IS A FACT THAT OBAMA DID COCAINE, HE ADMITS IT!

"15. Honor John J. Downing, Brian Fahey, and Harry Ford, firefighters who lost their lives on duty. Only five of Clinton's bills are, more substantive. 16. Extend period of unemployment assistance to victims of 9/11."

Please Remember To Hit The RETURN OR ENTER Key Between Sentences Or Numbered Lists When You Copy and Paste VOMIT All Over This Site!

"We were talking legislature, not traveling plans and hosting parties."

Misleading On It's Face Because;
1) Obama's ILLINOIS SENATE Legislation IS NOT THE U.S. Senate And Therefore Does Not Affect ANYONE Outside Of Illinois!

2) Hillary's Work As First Lady Achieves More Than Baracks Whole PUBLIC LIFE HISTORY!

3) Hillary's Work As First Lady Affected The Lives Of Every Single American, Unlike A Pitiful Illinois State Senator.

4) Cindy McCains Pill Habits ARE NOT LEGISLATIVE.

Keep Trying, How Pathetic.; February 20, 2008 10:09 PM
Anonymous said...: "RIGHT NOW, ON MSNBC THEY HAVE BREAKING NEWS ABOUT AN AFFAIR BETWEEN MCCAIN AND VICKI ISEMAN, ONE OF HIS LOBBYIST. YOU SEE.
HOW FUNNY!!"

Which Piece Of Legislation Are You Refering To?

LOL; February 20, 2008 10:15 PM
Protactinium said...: Timeforchange said,
"Hey stop with the caps on every other word. It is very difficult to read."

Are you sipping on that Hillary kool-aid? I do not have caps on every other word.

It does not matter anymore Clinton supporters. Obama has won this. Hillary is collapsing.

Oh and by the way Mccain is an adulter. Now the Clinton fans will for sure vote for him. They love there adulters.

The problem with you Hillary supporters is that fact you are assuming there are a limited amount of voters. In fact that is not the case this year, there are many many new voters. Get over yourselfs. It is all over.

If the femanists want to support a pro-life canidite be my guest.

However the mistake you Hillary supports are making is that there is a shuffling of the bases. Hillary is fairly conservative. So some of the conservative Hillary fans will goto Mccain, and more moderate Republicans will go to Obama. :-) Sorry Hillary supporters, but your not the only ones voting. Go to Mccain. You will be on the losing side twice this election. The Obama Mandate is comming.

Get over your fairy tale people. Put a fork in Hillary, she is done. New polls show her losing in Texas, and her lead in Ohio has fell tremendously.

Yes we can! There more then just words. Yes we can!

PS. Super delegates are jumping ship.; February 20, 2008 10:15 PM
Independent Voter said...: Ok, so I've come across a couple of Clinton nuggets.

First off, I asked a few weeks ago how much interest Clinton was going to charge her campaign for her "loan". Well guess what. It turns out she is charging her campaign 1.26%. Now that doesn't sound like much, but that is $63,000. And by the way she hasn't paid herself back yet so she is still growing the interest.

Next little nugget. Her lawyers requested the Second Appellate District Div. 7 court to review a case brought about in regards to corruption and fraud charges surrounding her dealings with Peter Paul (http://www.courtinfo.ca.gov/courts/minutes/documents/SJAN0308.PDF look at pdf page 24 or the actual document page is 29) to see that her petition was denied. Now I know that worldnetdaily is a "right-wing" rag, however the information is still true, there is a hearing expected to end tomorrow regarding this case. Paul's attorney is hoping for an October trial date. If this is ANY indication what we are in for over the next 4 years. More court cases and corruption surrounding the Clintons. NO THANK YOU!!!!!!!! (http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=56868); February 20, 2008 10:19 PM
Protactinium said...: Oh and Mccain will lose this Pakastian argument. I know you guys would love to belive everything Mccain spouts against Obama.

First ask your self why is he attacking Obama but not Hillary?

Because he knows Hillary is dead in the water.

Second. What Obama said about Pakistan was that if there is a serious threat to American security in Pakistan, he would bomb the threat.

If Mccain challenges him to hard on this issue, he will just look weak on national security. The thing he touts so much.

Oh and by the way, we have killed terriosts in Pakistan, with predators recently. No one questions Bush about that. Why? Because it was right.

Now quit living in your fairtytale, and spewing what ever Hillary tells you to spew. This is all over.

America wants someone they can trust. And Hillary is not the person. Neither is Mccain. That is why voters really are voting for Obama.

As of Pat Buchanan. His point was that Hillary could lose alot of her supporters to Mccain in the generals. While Obama supporters will stand behind him to the end, because they are true believers.

The Obama mandate is comming.; February 20, 2008 10:25 PM
Protactinium said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; February 20, 2008 10:32 PM
MOJORISIN' said...: Protactinium -
Man, I was wondering where you went. There's more worms out tonight than normal and I was gettin lonely on here. heheheheheh.......

Check out MSNBC, they are running a candidate hour long special on OBAMA. It's sweet. Ends at 11:00.; February 20, 2008 10:36 PM
Protactinium said...: Ny Dem said, "Only An Idiot Would Think DELEGATES ARE POINTS

10 points = Percentage
Get It Percentage points."

First I made this call before the election polls where even closed.

Second, Your a moron. Obama won by 17% points. A moron is all I can say. So if I was talking about delegate or points. I was right, and you where wrong.

Hillary is losing. Maybe because she has the uneducated on people on her staff, while Obama has more college educated staff then any other campign.

Hillay's people will say anything now. They are so desprate. It is funny because they spew the same hate poltics, that over 50% of the voters in Wis, said was unfair.; February 20, 2008 10:37 PM
MOJORISIN' said...: sddavO - Good work, haven't seen that anywhere. I bet that interest goes up after missing that first month's payment! hahahaha....
do you mind if I hang onto that info? If I post somewhere, I will give you credit!

Unlike others ;); February 20, 2008 10:40 PM
Independent Voter said...: Here is the link for the loan document showing the interest rate.

http://query.nictusa.com/cgi-bin/dcdev/forms/C00431569/324192/sc/ALL; February 20, 2008 10:48 PM
Protactinium said...: Hillary is just going to try and put as much cash into her pocket from now until the end of the campign. She know she is out, but will benifit any way she can. I bet we will see alot more of this type of behavior.

I wonder what her campigns pay Bill, and Chelsie. I bet it is preety redicilous. I mean she did spend 500k in parking alone last year.; February 20, 2008 10:51 PM
MOJORISIN' said...: And she made it UNSECURED.

High interest rates and no chance of a loss to her personal finances.

How typical. What a snake.; February 20, 2008 10:55 PM
Anonymous said...: sddave0,
Have You Considered The Rezko Scandal For STARTERS, There Is MUCH To That, Including How Rezko Didn't Pay Heating Bills For His Low-Income Housing, While Making Thousands In Contributions To OBAMA, Obama Is Toast Before He Starts!

Proctinum,
"Oh and by the way, we have killed terriosts in Pakistan, with predators recently. No one questions Bush about that. Why? Because it was right."

Are You Aware Pakistan Is A Sovereign, NUCLEUR Armed Country?
Playing With Fire In Pakistan Is Very Different From Iraq Or Even Iran (who is not as of yet nucleur armed)!
One More Reason We Need A President With Experience!

"Obama won by 17% points"

Keep Swallowing The Jizz The Media Keeps Throwing At Ya Proc.
yes 58 - 41 = 17
But 41 + 9 =50 (a dead tie) or 58 - 8 = 50 (again a dead tie)
(but adding 8+9 Looks More Favorable to obama LUSTERS Like You)
Funny How They Make 9% Look Like 17% Huh, But People Like You Eat It So That's That. Just Like If Hillary Had Gotten 51% it Would Still Only Equal 1% More, You Don't Add Twice, Dunce; February 20, 2008 11:00 PM
MOJORISIN' said...: HaHaHaHa! So true.....; February 20, 2008 11:26 PM
MOJORISIN' said...: Seriously, I think Little Nub is just lonely and acting stupid just to have someone to interact with. NO ONE can be that ignorant!
His profile states occupation 'telecommunications'. HA! Wonder how that's possible, you know.; February 20, 2008 11:30 PM
Independent Voter said...: Actually I have the feeling that anyone who goes onto an anonymous board, and adopts a name of "anonymous ny Democrat" isn't a Democrat at all. They are simply a troll looking to get the most beatable candidate elected.; February 21, 2008 12:14 AM
NO Obama said...: I just took some unscientific polls and Cindy McCain wins the "who would you like to see as first spouse" vote.

And people by a pretty good margin think Michelle Obama's comment about feeling proud of her country for the first time was inappropriate and that Cindy McCain' comment referencing it indirectly about always being proud of her country was appropriate.

Between the 2, Cindy McCain is preferred over Michelle Obama so that will probably become an issue in the campaign like Heinz Ketchup Kerry (I voted for Kerry, btw.)

Republicans especially don't like strong women I think Cindy McCain is a strong woman but doesn't let it show too much!; February 21, 2008 5:07 AM
Independent Voter said...: There is a reason it is called an "unscientific" poll. People can lopside the poll because it is NOT random and people are able to vote multiple times. So according to this unscientific poll, people don't want Bill as first spouse either.

I really can't believe how ignorant some people can really be. When people start citing unscientific polls, it's easy to understand why the droves of uneducated individuals vote for Hillary and McCain.

I'm watching CNN and they still continue showing the Hillary screeching. It is still "I", always "I". She still hasn't learned that it needs to be "WE". In this primary season people want to be INCLUDED. She is excluding people. Obama has realized that it truly "takes a village" (I'M CREDITING HILLARY) meaning ALL of us, not just him! I really thought Hillary was smarter than that. If she wants any hope to win the nomination and the general she needs to start using WE and stop with the "I will", "I can", etc. she really needs to catch on to the idea that the voters want to know that she believes that it takes ALL of us, not just her. It is MY opinion that this is where much of her campaign has been going wrong.; February 21, 2008 12:27 PM
NO Obama said...: sddave0, Let me ask you this? Do men screech?

No, they have strong voices and superior speaking skills with public speeches, don't they?

They don't screech. On advantage of perception that Obama has among many.; February 21, 2008 1:27 PM
shelby said...: Is it really the Clinton people who are drinking the Kool-Aid here?
I thought Obama supporters were the highly educated ones?

Even blowing his nose, Obama gets applause
by John McCormick

DALLAS – It's probably safe to say that you have arrived as a politician when your audience applauds when you blow your nose.

Yes, just a day before a debate in Texas, Sen. Barack Obama has a head cold.

And about a half-hour into a speech here, the Illinois Democrat announced that he had to take a quick break. "Gotta blow my nose here for a second," Obama said.

Out came a Kleenex (or perhaps it was a hankie), and he wiped his nose.

The near-capacity audience at the Reunion Arena, which his campaign said totaled 17,000, broke out in a slightly awkward applause.

Despite the cold, Obama's voice seems as strong as ever. He has a light schedule today and some time to rest up before his debate Thursday evening with Sen. Hillary Clinton of New York.

Posted by John McCormick on February 20, 2008 2:29 PM

BTW- If you educated Obama supporters are going to continue to call others naive, please spell it correctly.; February 21, 2008 2:18 PM
Protactinium said...: timeforchange I know your not trying to imply that anyone is sexist, after you post racist smut videos on this blog.

Shelby that is that best you have? Oh come on. Desprate times for Hillary supports.; February 21, 2008 2:33 PM
Protactinium said...: Oh and I do not know why I even bother with this blog anymore. The primarys are over. Go to Mccains blogs if you do not like Obama. Hillary is done. It is almost mathmatically impossible for Hillary to catch up on pledged delegates. It will be hard for DNC to over rule the publics opinon.

There will be a shuffling of the bases. There will be a new Democratic base. And everyone else that does not want to be apart of the change system will go to the republicans and cry for the next 8 years. Maybe 16 depending on who Obama VP is. The Obama Mandate is comming.; February 21, 2008 2:36 PM
shelby said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; February 21, 2008 3:00 PM
shelby said...: We are the change we have been waiting for - Barack Obama

No one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American public- Henry Mencken; February 21, 2008 3:37 PM
MOJORISIN' said...: "Michelle Obama's comment about feeling proud of her country for the first time was inappropriate"

Just to clear things up for you and the voices in your head, timeforchange, what Michelle actually said was that 'for the first time in my adult life, I am REALLY proud of my country". However, this quote was edited before sent to MSM and it wasn't until last night that the TRUTH came out and MSNBC ran the ACTUAL quote without the editing. I saw it with my own eyeballs. And if you did your homework you would've known this too instead of, typically, listening to what the media tells you and take that for truth. That's what is wrong with you - you let others cloud your own mind instead of searching for the truth. Who edited the tape?? They haven't said yet but we have a REAL good idea. And truth is, I've never been more proud of my country in my adult life either! Her ACTUAL STATEMENT was right on!!

As old as you are, I guess you really haven't learnt much in your life, have you? You are racist looking for any reason NOT to move beyond color and stay content in your white little world. Good luck with that!!; February 21, 2008 4:07 PM
MOJORISIN' said...: "Oh and I do not know why I even bother with this blog anymore."

It's because we are HOPING that we can bring reason, truth and humanity to all. That is our message. And we will keep trying, no matter how bleak the outcome looks on this board. We are the majority (finally!!) and as this funny old world moves on, there will be more and more people like us and the sexists and racists will be absolved. We're just trying to speed things up that's all. Look how far we have come in a little over 100 years! Although it seems like a long time, it isn't. Our children and grandchildren and so on will carry our message for us.

PEACE.; February 21, 2008 4:15 PM
Independent Voter said...: Time....

Yes, SOME men do screech. But that wasn't really the point of the post. The point of the post was that Obama is INCLUSIVE of everyone, and that Clinton is about "I" NOT "WE" which is why she is losing primary and caucus contests.

Of course a staunch, all or nothing Clinton supporter WOULD look at ONE sentence and then disregard the entire rest of the post.

I for one, will get behind Clinton if she is the nominee, but once again I will have to hold my nose as I go to the poll if I am forced to chose between her and McCain.

I don't believe in the "all or nothing" attitude that most Clinton supporters have.; February 21, 2008 4:28 PM
shelby said...: the sexists and racists will be absolved....?????

To another highly educated Obama supporter- look and learn-

zlv, -slv)
tr.v. ab·solved, ab·solv·ing, ab·solves
1. To pronounce clear of guilt or blame.
2. To relieve of a requirement or obligation.
3.
a. To grant a remission of sin to.
b. To pardon or remit (a sin).

I think Obama has so much blind support because supporters like you don't even know what he is saying- they just like the way he sounds.

Marshall Mcluhan would have a field day with Obama and Hillary.
Hillary, like Nixon, is a hot candidate in a cool medium (TV). Obama, like Kennedy, is cool in a cool medium. This says nothing about their abilities and qualifications - but it completely explains Obama's success.; February 21, 2008 4:36 PM
NO Obama said...: Dear Pro...

You have me confused with someone else who posts wht you all smut videos and yes someone who says Hillary screeches is sexist.; February 21, 2008 4:36 PM
NO Obama said...: MOJORISIN' I have known exactly what she said and even heard her when she said it. I don't care if she's REALLY proud or MORE proud or what.

The fact that she wasn't REALLY proud or was less proud than now when her pontificating husband is running is troublesome.

I haven't been AS proud of this country since Bush stole the presidency but I have been REALLY proud of if many, many times.

Her statement just shows how self centered she and her husband are.

If she had said I haven't been REALLY proud of my husband until now, how would that come across?; February 21, 2008 4:44 PM
MOJORISIN' said...: Ok, s/b absorbed....hahaha!
Although absolved means: to set free of guilt, which also works for me! Pick whatever word you want there ...hahahaha.....if you're going to nitpick grammar then you got your work cut out for you. Haahaahaahaa........

and timeforchange (this really boggles my mind - why did you chose this name, it doesn't fit you) if you can't see the difference in her actual words and what was reported, then that's your problem. She's really proud that Americans have finally awoken and had their voices heard. It has nothing to do with her husband so your question at the end makes no sense.

Ding Dong the witch is dead....
bye bye billary!; February 21, 2008 5:15 PM
Independent Voter said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; February 21, 2008 6:53 PM
Independent Voter said...: Time....you think I'm sexist? Fine, you can think what you want. If you think I'm sexist because I don't like Hillary or because I think her speeches are more like screeching then maybe I fine. But that isn't why I don't like her. ONCE again you show that you are truly ignorant and cannot read beyond a single sentence.

The POINT of the post was to state that she hasn't GRASPED the idea that her speeches are always the same. It's "I" can do this...."I" can do that. She doesn't INCLUDE anyone else.

Obama INCLUDES ALL of us. He doesn't say I can do this, or I can do that. It is WE can do this and WE can do that, or TOGETHER WE will do this or that.

Hillary wants us to believe that SHE will do everything and HAS NOT grasped her very own concept of "IT TAKES A VILLAGE". The way her message comes across is that she is going to be going it alone. Look what ALONE has gotten us over the past 7 years under Bush. I like hearing a message that INCLUDES me in it, not just the person I'm listening to. This is SPEECH 101!!!!!!!!

You might want to take a speech class, I hear they are pretty inexpensive at your local community college.; February 21, 2008 6:56 PM
NO Obama said...: sddave0, Yes you are a sexist using terminology like "screech" for a woman speaking.

Hillary isn't the speaker that Obama is but I'd rather have someone who knows the ins and outs of issues, has definite plans that she can outline and speak about in detail, etc.

Obama, OTOH is a grand speaker with not a lot of detail and substance and some of the grandness of his words turn out to not eve be his!

I, as a woman could get up and speak much like Obama and I'm sure Hillary could too but it is disingenuous to do so and Obama's speaking style is accepted for a black man, not for others as they'd be accused of acting or putting on a "show"

So right away, Hillary is at a disadvantage.

BTW, I chose my name about a year ago (timeforchange) on the Hillary Clinton Website when she was talking about change. The word and the enactment aren't Obama's alone! As a matter of fact, I think he stole the concept from her.; February 21, 2008 7:56 PM
NO Obama said...: Hillary is THE one:

First to say Google and Halliburton in the same answer: Obama
First to say the U.S. will have a 9 trillion dollar debt thanks to George Bush Jr.: Clinton

First to say we will have a unified Democratic Party during the general election: Clinton

First to get a bit choked up
talking about injured veterans: Clinton

First to say she has been blessed: Clinton

First candidate express honor at being with the other candidate: Clinton

First candidate to thank the moderators afterwards: Clinton; February 21, 2008 9:57 PM
NO Obama said...: First to say “I am ready and I am prepared [to be Commander in Chief]: Clinton

First to say the difference between Clinton and Obama on Health Care is philosophical: Obama

First to say the difference between Clinton and Obama on Health Care is based on substance: Clinton

First to say that if you don’t aim for 100% health care coverage you won’t get it: Clinton

First to frown: Obama (when Clinton said she has visited over 80 countries representing America)

First to mention the U.S. embassy being burned last night: Clinton

First to mention rifle platoons: Obama

First to mention Senator John McCain: Obama

Observation: Clinton looks into the audience when Obama is speaking, Obama looks down when Clinton is speaking

Observation: Obama keeps talking about WHAT wants to change, Clinton keeps explaining HOW she’ll change things. Hm.; February 21, 2008 10:34 PM
NO Obama said...: Hillary showed tonight she can be magnanimous and a statesman by complimenting Obama and saying she was honored to be on the stage with him.

Obama was honored to be on the stage with himself.; February 21, 2008 10:36 PM
Protactinium said...: so anyone here ther Clinton plagerised part of Edwards speech?

And she calls him a xerox machine. Kinda hippocritical huh?

As for her complimenting him. Want a cookie? That proves nothing.; February 21, 2008 11:00 PM
Protactinium said...: Who else noticed Hillary kept hinting that this campign will be over after Texas? And she also said super delegate are not really going to matter. The only way it will be over after Texas, and super delegate will not matter is she is going to drop out.

Hillary is preparing to drop out.

Obama is better on national security and going to nail Mccain hard.; February 21, 2008 11:04 PM
NO Obama said...: Protactinium

I figured being magnanimous and statesmanlike would mean nothing to you.

Too bad Obama isn't that way and is so self absorbed. (BTW, he used I, I, I, I quite a bit in this debate, FYI.

Edward's statement turns out to be very similar to one Bill Clinton made in 1992. So Edwards copied Clinton and she copied Bill.

I love the way you Obama supporters think it's okay for Obama to borrow but now Hillary.; February 21, 2008 11:06 PM
Protactinium said...: Acutally my point was that everyone uses good parts of speechs. So get that bs out of here. Hillary is a hippocrit by attacking him. We all know that the xerox comment was not her own. Someone told her that.
She got booed for it, and rightfully so.; February 21, 2008 11:07 PM
NO Obama said...: Obama uses other people's speeches better than others!! He gets credit for being a great orator because of it!

He'll probably go to Cuba and tell Castro's brother to "tear down that wall." Especially since he is such a great admirer of Reagan.; February 21, 2008 11:11 PM
Protactinium said...: timeforchange said,
"Protactinium
I figured being magnanimous and statesmanlike would mean nothing to you."

Honstly they both have said good things about each other. And yes you are right. How good Hillary is at complimenting Obama is not the #1 on my priorty list. Things called ISSUES are.; February 21, 2008 11:11 PM
Independent Voter said...: Now I know why you call me sexist, it's because you are a woman.

So I guess since I'm a white male, I must be racist also, right?

Your argument is BUNK. I debate people all the time: male, female, black, white, brown, etc.

I do have to say that she had some decent moments tonight, but I still don't like the way she talks, she YELLS (SCREECHES) at the audience. She does NOT have the calm and collectiveness about her that is REQUIRED from the President of the United States.

The only reason that she said all of those things first as you are claiming is because 90% of the questions were directed at her FIRST.

She still LOST the healthcare argument, she LOST the Iraq argument, she LOST the commander-in-chief argument, she LOST the foreign policy argument, but she gave a great closing. She completely BOMBED on the "xerox" comment. You have to admit, that was really DUMB of her.

She hasn't learned that NEGATIVE politics are simply NOT working for her. However I have to admit, that although it sounded much more like a concession speech she did a great job in the closing.

I have to think about the following, do I go with the person who was STRONG throughout the entire debate (Obama) or someone who waits until the end (Clinton) to do their best. I would much rather have someone that is better through the ENTIRE debate.

I just read your last statement time: "I love the way you Obama supporters think it's okay for Obama to borrow but now Hillary".

This would be a NON-ISSUE if the Clitnon campaign hadn't made an issue of it. They are the ones that brought up the whole "plagiarism" issue, so they and their supporters better be ready to have it thrown BACK in their faces.

You obviously NEVER noticed that nobody really cared if Hillary or Barack were using other people's lines in their speeches until the Hill camp made it an issue. Now we will be watching absolutely EVERY word that she makes just to point out her and her campaigns hypocrisy.; February 21, 2008 11:12 PM
NO Obama said...: Being magnanimous is a sign of good character, leadership, statesmanship, the ability to swallow pride and negotiate, extend a hand of a conciliatory nature, all very important qualities in a present and a good leader.

I've not seen any of that in Obama.; February 21, 2008 11:14 PM
Protactinium said...: Also is it not Ironic that Hillary ended the debates about the soldiers in the hospitals. However Obama is the one that sponsered bills to help soldiers, with more psychology test, and the Walter Reed issue?

However they where good words.; February 21, 2008 11:15 PM
Protactinium said...: You mean like swallow your pride and talk to America's enemies and find the root of the problem?

Funny that is what Obama wants to do. And Hillary wants to bog it down with burcracy.

Hillary made if fairly clear she is droping out after Texas, short of a huge win for her. She is still in it to see how Texas, Ohio plays out.; February 21, 2008 11:18 PM
Protactinium said...: "Hillary is magnanamous and shows the traits of being a good leader, able to extend a conciliatory handshake, etc."

And yet she will attack him on every little thing. She attacked him for not debating her in Wis. I guess 20 debate are not enough for her. She will attack him for plagarism even though she has done it also. You may buy her "it's great to stand on this stage with him." stuff. However her actions have shown something very much differnt.

They where good words. However, I believe in more then just words. I believe in actions.; February 21, 2008 11:25 PM
NO Obama said...: I don't think Hillary is dropping out. She is positioning herself for either consequence and releasing her delegates under certain conditions such as a VP nod maybe.

I do somewhat agree with Obama but in some ways his idea is naive.

If you talk to these leaders, then you have to keep going back for more talks and more. They wind up holding you hostage to talks with little progress.

I suppose it'd be worth a try but if it gets to the point where it's all talk and no do, then it won't work.

I've always thought that you might be able to win someone over with the right talk and the righ incentives but things have to be progressive and positive. You can never let your guard down.; February 21, 2008 11:26 PM
Independent Voter said...: So my calling her screeching makes me a sexist. WOW! That's news to me.

Personally I thought Margaret Thatcher was an AWESOME Prime Minister for Great Britain. She didn't screech. She showed authority. Hillary Clinton seems to have to yell at the audience to me that is SCREECHING!

Now if I were sexist I would say things like she is weak. Or I would say, she belongs in the kitchen. Or that she nneds to let the guys handle everything. That would be sexist. My saying that she screeches is NOT sexism, it my perception of her of how she talks to people.

I was actually somewhat proud of her for not turning on the waterworks. She must have figured out that the waterworks only worked for the New Hampshire primary.; February 21, 2008 11:27 PM
NO Obama said...: Well then pro, Obama is a little long on words and short on actions.; February 21, 2008 11:27 PM
Independent Voter said...: Time....

I don't think Hillary is dropping out. She is positioning herself for either consequence and releasing her delegates under certain conditions such as a VP nod maybe.

I do somewhat agree with Obama but in some ways his idea is naive.

If you talk to these leaders, then you have to keep going back for more talks and more. They wind up holding you hostage to talks with little progress.

I suppose it'd be worth a try but if it gets to the point where it's all talk and no do, then it won't work.

I've always thought that you might be able to win someone over with the right talk and the righ incentives but things have to be progressive and positive. You can never let your guard down.

---------

Finally we agree on something.

I do agree that we need to talk to our adversaries as well as our allies. There is hope for us yet. :); February 21, 2008 11:29 PM
NO Obama said...: dave, certain words have been attributed to women and it is sexist like screech.

Why didn't you say she yells instead of screech. Men yell but they don't screech.

She has a somewhat high pitched voice because she is a woman and when she raises her voice to be heard it isn't screeching. It is raising her voice.

Oh well, enough of that subject since you don't seem to get it.; February 21, 2008 11:33 PM
Protactinium said...: Change said, "Well then pro, Obama is a little long on words and short on actions."

Ok. Continue to spew what Hillary tells you. But you are wrong. Hillary has proved to this to be true of herself. The more she attacks him the more she reveals her own flaws.; February 21, 2008 11:39 PM
Independent Voter said...: If that is YOUR definition of sexism then fine, so be it, it is NOT my definition.

Now onto something that might actually EDUCATE you about Obama's position, you might actually want to read his "blueprint for change". Granted it is long, but it may actually give you some insight. I personally HAVE read his and Hillary's issues and I definitely like his positions much better.

More specifically:
Healthcare - no garnishing of wages
Foreign policy - TALK to friends and foes.
Iraq - he showed BETTER judgment, which was documented October 2, 2002 before the US Senate voted.(http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Barack_Obama's_Iraq_Speech)
Immigration - I believe undocumented workers should be allowed to obtain driver licenses (on a tiered basis - one that cannot be used in other states or as federal identification)

There are distinct differences in many of their policies and I believe his are better. Plain and simple.; February 21, 2008 11:50 PM
Protactinium said...: Well Hillary was first to hit Bush on his spending tonight. However here is a great article about Hillary personal spends. If this is how mismanged her campaign money. We can only imagine what she will do to our country.

Orginially a New York Times article on MSNBC.com. Now no need to get all up in arms about me plagiarizing

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23286123/

In case you are to lazy to actually click on the link. I put some highlights here.

Nearly $100,000 went for party platters and groceries before the Iowa caucuses, even though the partying mood evaporated quickly. Rooms at the Bellagio luxury hotel in Las Vegas consumed more than $25,000; the Four Seasons, another $5,000. And top consultants collected about $5 million in January, a month of crucial expenses and tough fund-raising.

The firm that includes Mark Penn, Mrs. Clinton’s chief strategist and pollster, and his team collected $3.8 million for fees and expenses in January; in total, including what the campaign still owes, the firm has billed more than $10 million for consulting, direct mail and other services, an amount other Democratic strategists who are not affiliated with either campaign called stunning.

The advertising firm owned by Mandy Grunwald, the longtime media strategist for both Mrs. Clinton and Bill Clinton, the former president, has collected $2.3 million in fees and expenses for production costs, and is still owed another $240,000.

In other notable expenditures during the lean month of January, Mrs. Clinton paid to $275,000 to Sunrise Communications, a South Carolina firm that was supposed to turn out black voters for her and collected nearly $800,000 in total from her campaign. She lost that state to Mr. Obama by a wide margin. Even small expenses piled up quickly in January: the campaign spent more than $11,000 on pizza and $1,200 on Dunkin’ Donuts runs.

So Hillary does not look like she can balance a buget. Maybe that is why she had to loan her campaign money.; February 22, 2008 5:21 AM
NO Obama said...: Let the Games Begin:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB120355939956381797.html?mod=opinion_main_commentaries

Karl Rove, reporting for duty!; February 22, 2008 6:27 AM
Independent Voter said...: time....if that is all they can throw at him, all I can do is LOL!

Fortunately for him, Clinton's $17 million fraud case which ended preliminary hearings yesterday will be front and center very shortly. Her charging her campaign interest for the $5 million "loan" or what I like to call it, short-term investment, because she still hasn't paid it off.

McCain has no standing especially since he has BOUND himself to primary federal campaign funds and cannot get out of it. He has actually gone OVER the allowed amount, so he is going to be facing his own FEC charges and fines.

Has it not occured to you that the only reason Karl Rove is attacking Obama at this point is because he wants to change the trajectory of this race because he KNOWS that Hillary is a much easier target? He would much rather go up against Hillary because she will be much easier to tear down than Obama.

I am POSITIVE you NEVER looked at the link I provided you about Obama's plan, but that's ok, you're a woman, go ahead and vote for the woman (that statement IS meant to be sexist).

As for this white guy, I will take the CONSISTENT 'black' man over a woman who seems to only be able to find "her" voice right before an election. If she were a man I would still be voting for the "black" man.

This is NOT to say that I wouldn't vote for her if for some reason she pulls it off and becomes the nominee. I will simply be having to do what I have become so accustomed to when heading to the polls for the general election, holding my nose as I vote.; February 22, 2008 10:38 AM
NO Obama said...: BTW, Karl Rove is just getting started with Obama as are the other swiftboaters.

The media is greatly to blame for Obama's rise and Hillary's fall, concentrating heavily on covering Obama much more than Hillary.

The media in this country sucks in many instances!

The Real Barack Obama

Thursday, February 21, 2008 10:06 AM

By: Ronald Kessler

Michelle Obama’s comment that, for the first time in her adult life, she feels proud of America helps crystallize who Barack Obama is.

To be sure, the wife of a candidate is perfectly free to have views that are distinct from her husband’s. But on a matter that is so fundamental to one’s being as love of country, it is difficult to imagine that Michelle Obama would publicly twice make such a statement suggesting disdain for America unless she felt it comported with her husband’s views.

Equally important, her statement aligns perfectly with the hate-America views of the Rev. Jeremiah Wright, Barack Obama’s minister, friend, and sounding board for more than two decades. On the Sunday following 9/11, Wright characterized the terrorist attacks as a consequence of violent American policies. Four years later, Wright suggested that the attacks were retribution for America’s racism.

“In the 21st century, white America got a wake-up call after 9/11/01,” Wright wrote in his church magazine Trumpet. “White America and the Western world came to realize that people of color had not gone away, faded into the woodwork or just ‘disappeared’ as the Great White West kept on its merry way of ignoring black concerns.”

Wright has been a key supporter of Louis Farrakhan, and in December, honored the Nation of Islam leader for lifetime achievement, saying he “truly epitomize[s] greatness.”

Farrakhan has repeatedly made hate-filled statements targeting Jews, whites, America, and homosexuals.

Those who think two of the closest people to Obama could publicly make anti-America statements unless Obama himself felt that way, are fooling themselves. To date, Obama has proven himself to be nothing more than a great orator, rendering the statements of those around him even more important in illuminating his true character and agenda. During his Senate career, he skipped 17 percent of the votes and sponsored only one bill that became law. That bill was to promote “relief, security, and democracy in the Democratic Republic of Congo.”

Rest of article

http://www.newsmax.com/kessler/michelle_barack_obama/2008/02/21/74416.html; February 22, 2008 1:01 PM
shelby said...: timeforchange-

Isn't it telling that the mental midgets here continue to rattle on about Hillary (her spends??) despite the fact that they see her as dead in the water? Can you spell OBSESSION? I truly believe these folks don't even realize where their relentless anti-Hillary venom comes from- maybe a little mommy hatred? As far as they are concerned, their messiah has it in the bag. But their little brains continue to natter on about Hillary. Poor things can't seem to stop themselves.

Even when Hillary is gracious, it's not gracious enough. If she goes negative, well you know the drill.

So, what is left according to the Obamans? I guess we all have to break into effusive applause whenever their guy blows his nose.; February 22, 2008 1:06 PM
NO Obama said...: shelby, you are so correct!; February 22, 2008 1:22 PM
Independent Voter said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; February 22, 2008 2:46 PM
Independent Voter said...: I guess if we are going to hinge everything on what a presidential candidate's spouse says (meaning Michelle Obama) I guess it is equally safe to hinge on what Bill and Hillary Clinton have both said, "red states don't matter", "caucus states don't matter" and that "black people don't matter" either.

I guess the Clintons really are racist.

Do I really believe that? Absolutely not, but if you are going to make a claim on one sentence of the spouse, then you better be prepared to have it thrown back in your face!; February 22, 2008 2:49 PM
MOJORISIN' said...: Email from Sonya via me:

Her ending at the debate was eloquent…too bad it was a lie. Clinton claims that she sat there watching the wounded warriors walk down the red carpet at the opening at the Center for the Intrepid. She is lying. I was at the opening for the Center for the Intrepid and witnessed Hillary Clinton and her entourage pull up 15 minutes late, well after the wounded soldiers had been seated and the ceremony had begun. It was rude and showed how little she cared for the audience that day.; February 22, 2008 3:42 PM
MOJORISIN' said...: Hillary -
When you accuse someone of plagiarism and your so called defining moment at the end of the debate is lifted from John Edward's speech, and others, something has to give!

Bill Clinton 1992: “The hits that I took in this election are nothing compared to the hits the people of this state and this country have been taking for a long time.”

Hillary Clinton last night: “You know, the hits I’ve taken in life are nothing compared to what goes on every single day in the lives of people across our country.”

Edwards the December 13 debate:

“What’s not at stake are any of us. All of us are going to be just fine no matter what happens in this election. But what’s at stake is whether America is going to be fine.”

Hillary Clinton last night:

“You know, whatever happens, we’re going to be fine. You know, we have strong support from our families and our friends. I just hope that we’ll be able to say the same thing about the American people. And that’s what this election should be about.”; February 22, 2008 3:46 PM
Protactinium said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; February 22, 2008 5:20 PM
Protactinium said...: shelby said, "Isn't it telling that the mental midgets here continue to rattle on about Hillary (her spends??) despite the fact that they see her as dead in the water? Can you spell OBSESSION? I truly believe these folks don't even realize where their relentless anti-Hillary venom comes from- maybe a little mommy hatred?"

ROFL! If we are obsessed by hitting Hillary on the issues still. That would make Hillary supports desprate rattling for how good she still is. As for the mommy hatred comment, you obviously are just a femanist, who only knows how to hate the men. Much like Hillary.

Maybe mommie protected you from the evil men, and taught you men where out to get you. Maybe your blind support has to do with how much you hate men.

Maybe daddy left your mom when you where little?

Time have changed get over your anti-men stances. And enjoy voting for Mccain. HA! I would love to see the femanists of America vote for Mccain.

But hey like I have said before.

A scorn women has no boundries.; February 22, 2008 5:22 PM
MOJORISIN' said...: I'm a woman so don't think everyone on here is being sexist towards billary because she's female. And white, so it ain't about color either. And a mommy. And college educated. And middle-class. And southern.; February 22, 2008 6:34 PM
Independent Voter said...: mojorisin'

There lies the problem. You are educated. That is why you don't support Billary....LOL (I'm using sarcasm just in case "anon ny dem" couldn't tell).

:); February 22, 2008 7:26 PM
MOJORISIN' said...: Actually, being a woman, I am ashamed that she is female. She is not the typical woman true enough but she was taught at an early, early age to be a bully by her parents and that is just what she is. A self-absorbed bully that can't handle defeat graciously. Someone on here said something along the lines of when she is gracious, we bash her for not being gracious enough, etc. etc. Give me ONE example of her graciousness which did not include self gratification. Just one. I truly feel for Chelsea. She is being thrown to the wolves, where she is clearly not comfortable, only to serve her parents in their quest for domination. Sad really.; February 22, 2008 7:52 PM
NO Obama said...: Some of you Obama supporters are delusional (a word he used last night).

You've never seen Hillary be gracious? Wow!

Many Hillary supporters are eductated and I happen to be one.

I have a masters degree and have written a published book, among many other accomplishments and successes.

To generalize about Hillary supporters or anything for that matter shows what poor thinkers many Obama supporters.; February 22, 2008 11:28 PM
NO Obama said...: sddave0 has left a new comment on the post "Open Thread":

I guess if we are going to hinge everything on what a presidential candidate's spouse says (meaning Michelle Obama) I guess it is equally safe to hinge on what Bill and Hillary Clinton have both said, "red states don't matter", "caucus states don't matter" and that "black people don't matter" either.

Could you put a link to Clinton's quote? esp. the part about blacks not mattering? Thanks ever so much!; February 22, 2008 11:41 PM
MOJORISIN' said...: Give me an example of her graciousness without self-gratification.; February 22, 2008 11:48 PM
NO Obama said...: MOJO,

What a stupid question. Only the person being gracious can say whether it has been self-gratifying.

Therefore, it isn't possible to show you an example.

How do YOU prove it was self-gratifying? Show me.; February 22, 2008 11:53 PM
NO Obama said...: Speaking of being gracious...I've never seen Obama be gracious about anything.

He is arrogant and acts as if he is entitled.

He was at a loss for words when she complimented him...not something you want a president representing this country to do when meeting with foreign leaders.; February 23, 2008 12:20 AM
MOJORISIN' said...: Didn't think so.; February 23, 2008 12:27 AM
MOJORISIN' said...: "He was at a loss for words when she complimented him..."

He was probably in shock like the rest of us! HAHAHA!
What would you like for his reply to be...without sounding as fake as her. She's been breathing down his neck all week and then comes out with that statement. It's called pandering for votes.; February 23, 2008 12:32 AM
NO Obama said...: No display of unity for a just American cause for Obama. He's stopped wearing his American flag lapel pin.

"The truth is that right after 9/11 I had a pin. Shortly after 9/11, particularly because as we're talking about the Iraq War, that became a substitute for I think true patriotism, which is speaking out on issues that are of importance to our national security. I decided I won't wear that pin on my chest. Instead, I'm going to try to tell the American people what I believe will make this country great, and hopefully that will be a testament to my patriotism."

Obama seems morally confused by the import of symbolism. Flags are important symbols of our national unity--moreso during times of conflict and war.

I think MoveOn and the apparatchiks of the loony left have claimed another.

Apparently Obama has his own ideas about patriotism which is not mainstream and crazy for someone who wants to be president.

I haven't felt all that patriotic myself since Bush took over the WH, but then again, I'm not running for president.

Symbolism, the flag, patriotic pledges and songs are very important to the morale of this country and the point he says he is trying to make gets lost in his lack of revering that symbolism.; February 23, 2008 12:36 AM
NO Obama said...: MOJORISIN' has left a new comment on the post "Open Thread":

"He was at a loss for words when she complimented him..."

He was probably in shock like the rest of us! HAHAHA!
What would you like for his reply to be...without sounding as fake as her. She's been breathing down his neck all week and then comes out with that statement. It's called pandering for votes.

Call it whatever YOU want--I disagree. But he was still at a loss for words and that's not good for someone wnating to be president.

His muse, Deval, wasn't whispering in his ear what to say!; February 23, 2008 12:40 AM
NO Obama said...: And if Michelle Obama has shown voters one thing this campaign season, it’s that neither is her husband. He has big ears, she has said. A funny name, too. He doesn’t put the butter away. He has trouble making beds. He’s not the “next Messiah who’s going to fix it all. In the end, he’s just a man.”

Sounds like the words from Jesus Christ Super Star...."I don't know how to love him
I don't know why he moves me
He's a man
He's just a man
He's not a king
He's just the same
As anyone I know
He scares me so!
When he's cold and dead
Will he let me be?
Does he love me too?
Does he care for me?
Ohhhhh... "

I am soooooooo disappointed he won't be able to fix everything.

I thought that was why he was running--to make all these big changes.

Even his own wife says he can't do it1; February 23, 2008 1:03 AM
NO Obama said...: He is a god, he's not a god, he is, he's not....

But her efforts to make Obama real also have attracted criticism. New York Times columnist Maureen Dowd wondered back in April why she didn’t like this realness with Michelle and Barack...

“I wince a bit when Michelle Obama chides her husband as a mere mortal — comic routine that rests on the presumption that we see him as a god,” she wrote. “But it may not be smart politics to mock him in a way that turns him from the glam J.F.K. into the mundane Gerald Ford, toasting his own English muffins. If all Senator Obama is peddling is the Camelot mystique, why debunk this mystique?”

Dang! Another of Obama's "mistique's" debunked!

He really isn't a god and has to be reminded of that often apparently.; February 23, 2008 1:11 AM
MOJORISIN' said...: Boy you really got it bad for Michelle, don't you? You must feel extremely threathened.

She also has stated that Barack attends EVERY PTA meeting at his girls' school, takes them out trick or treating on Halloween, doesn't go over two days without seeing his daughters during this busy period, does homework with them and he spent Valentine's Day with the family.

Billary stated that Bill had a dozen roses and some chocolates delivered to her hotel room. That was probably the best night Bill's had in a while! HA! "I did not have sexual relations with that woman". And on top of all the other things I detest about this woman, she's a thief. She stole the Lincoln china when she left the WH and was made to give it back. Talk about arrogance and entitlement. She's the only one in the whole thing that feels she is entitled to be the president. Get over yourself already. The country is showing her who we want and it isn't her now is it??

You're really stretching with the 'he thinks he God' thing. The Mrs. Dowd quote only shows that it was her opinion and obviously you both share a love of the billary. If he comes across as arrogant to you, I can't help that. I call it confidence.

As for the Jesus Christ Superstar comment - I don't have a clue to what that is. Movie? Song? whatever...; February 23, 2008 1:49 AM
NO Obama said...: Jesus Christ Super Star is the longest running play (made into a movie) by Andrew Lloyd Webber. It has beautiful music and the one I quoted is sung by Mary Magdelin to Jesus.

I don't have anything against Michelle Obama and am certainly not threated. I just don't like her at all--her attitude, he demeanor and more.

So is Barack such a good daddy because he is naturally that way or is it because he is being self serving. You know, running for office all these years and wanting to be able to tout what good things he does for his family.; February 23, 2008 5:10 AM
NO Obama said...: Still, her comment was in keeping with the generally bleak view of the country that is the heart of her stump speech, a departure from the usual chauvinism of the campaign trail. There have been rumblings about her portrait of a man who is lowering himself to politics. She talks about how brilliant he is and often implies that voters would be crazy not to vote for her husband, calling him "the only rational choice." She calls his candidacy a "once-in-a-lifetime opportunity for us to be graced with a man like him."

"The question," she often says, "is not whether Barack Obama is ready. The question is, are we ready for him?"

Michelle is clearly holding her husband up to be some god-like things.

Yeah, are we ready for this egocentric man who obviously thinks he is God's gift to this country kind of like George Bush thinks of himself?; February 23, 2008 5:12 AM
MOJORISIN' said...: Ok, I give. We're just not going to see eye to eye on any of this and this could go on and on forever.

Thanks for refreshing my memory on JCSS. I actually like ALW and saw, I believe this was the title, Joseph and the Technicolor Dreamcoat, here at our playhouse in my area a couple years ago. I just took my son to see 'Big River' and if you haven't seen it, it was great and worth the time also. I'm not a big fan of live theatre, except when in NY I do try to go to a couple shows but that's not the same as regional talent, IMO only.; February 23, 2008 12:13 PM
shelby said...: Barring a miracle, Hillary is out of the equation. So, we are left with McCain and Obama. Yet I guarantee that most of the talk will still be about Hillary. She has always been a wonderful distraction from the weaknesses of the other candidates.

I actually look forward to her leaving the race so that our attention can turn to the merits of the presumptive candidates.

Still, I bet that the Obamatons and McCain supporters will continue to make Hillary the focus of discussion. Let's see, can this blog go even 24 hours without Hillary bashing? 12? how about 6?
I thought so.; February 23, 2008 1:23 PM
MOJORISIN' said...: I don't believe for a second that she's almost out of this race. As long as she's still in it, I never underestimate her ability to use manipulation in her favor. That's not bashing, just truth. The Clintons are excellent at that as they proved during Bill's campaign. I have voted for Bill twice with no regrets. Much better than the alternatives both times.

But if she does pull it off, I am not one of those saying I'll go vote for McCain. I would most definitely vote for her. I wouldn't like it but I certainly would not sit at home or, god forbid, vote for the devil himself McCain. Hillary and Barack have pretty much the same plans for the country with the slight differences favoring Barack for me. Their past are quite different and again I favor Barack. Whoever ends up the dem candidate, I think the conversations will most definitely switch to that person and McCain. Either one, Hillary or Barack, will beat him by a landslide, I believe. Unless there's a backlash of voters upset and deciding to vote rep. out of spite because their dem candidate did not win. I have, or should I say had, a white male friend that is not voting for a woman or a black, period, the end. He is being stubborn and voted for McCain during the primary. He is BOTH racist and sexist and there's alot of that still around unfortunately. Thank God, Virginia disappointed him. And I do not believe that a lot of republicans are voting for Barack in order for him to win because they think McCain would beat him easier than Hillary. That's just not true. Time will tell.; February 23, 2008 2:59 PM
Protactinium said...: wow. This thread is getting stupider by the day.

Hillary is more qualified because she is gracious after getting pounded on for 10 contests in a row? This is just an insane. I personally would wanta president that is good for the country, and not just use nice words. Not mismanage millions of her own campaigns money.

All most of the Hillary supporters have is man hating garbage. They know she has lost to Obama on issues, so they feel they have to attack him. Hillary thinks America is to uneducated to see through her lies.

Sure it might be unfair to say Hillary is out of it, and it would be foolish for Obama to take her lightly. The same way Hillary was foolish for thinking she was just going to dominate Obama, and that she would not even have to compete after super tuesday.

After seeing how piss poor of a job she has done with her campign. What is she going to do if we get attacked? Will see only be ready to fight for the first month? Then be puzzled for the rest of the time.

But let's be honest. Short of the DNC stealing the election from Obama. Hillary is done. She has no plan to compete for the rest of the nation after pen. In fact she will squeak out a win in ohio, tie or lose texas, lose vermont. Tie or lose penn. They she will go on to lose the rest of the nation.

Even the Purto Rican Governer supports Obama.

And no one will care about Hillary after she loses. I am sure this thread will be full of Hillary supporters sharing there sob storys.

Hillary lost, because she live in a glass house, and then attacks other canidites. All it ends up doing is exposing how bad of a canidite she really is. Well she also lost because she has run a terrible campaign. Arragonce costed her this election.; February 23, 2008 5:37 PM
Protactinium said...: Obama should be able to dominate Mccain. He has already had many blunders.

1. He tryed to trap Obama in to goverment funds argument. Then it turns out Mccain is almost out of cash, and wants to get out of it. He only has a little money left, and is a crime if he goes over it.
So this will be used against him.

2. He tryed to nail Obama saying he would attack terroists in Pakistan if they where a threat to America. This will blow up in his face because it will make Mccain look weak on national security once they debate. Which is the only thing Mccain has going for him.

3. He has lobbist all over his campaign. And claims he wants to make a campaign reform pledge. Also he might have pulled a bill with a lobbist.; February 23, 2008 5:46 PM
MOJORISIN' said...: I agree on all points. McCain has 40 million to last him until September. The loan he made with the NY bank has made it impossible to get any more. As long as Obama sticks with the public funding (which he will because he has stayed consistant through out his excellently managed campaign), he will smear McCain.
Oh, and did you see Hillary's latest manipulative attempt today. Man that girl was pitiful. Very presidential also. Those fliers have been out for weeks and she says she just got one handed to her today. And everything on it is completely accurate. Talk about grasping at straws. Barack's live reply was priceless. I hope they play it over and over and over again, talk about a bully!!; February 23, 2008 6:57 PM
NO Obama said...: The Huffington Post
Experience vs. Inspiration
Posted February 22, 2008 | 11:52 AM (EST)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

When I fly in an airplane I want the pilot with the most experience, not the one who can inspire hope in me that I get to where I am going. When I pay my taxes, I want the person filing them to be experienced, not the new person who inspires hope in me that he can do the job. When I hire someone to fix my washing machine, I want the tried and true experienced person, not the one who inspires me to hope that he can fix it. When I go to the doctor I do not want to get the one who inspires hope in me that s/he can cure what's wrong, but the one who knows what the hell to do the minute I call. It's not really the job of a public servant to inspire, but to get the job that the people demand done. The democrats think that if they have hope and are inspired things will get better, but they actually won't. When Oprah makes her employees sign her fifty page non-disclosure statement, she doesn't "hope" they can't break it, she pays teams of experienced lawyers to MAKE SURE they can't break it, or be sued in an experienced court by an experienced judge.; February 23, 2008 8:00 PM
MOJORISIN' said...: She has decided to go down fighting! This is what we are going to see magnified by the Clinton campaign going forward.

Barack should definitely be prepared in this coming debate for the worst and needs to be ready to forcefully press and call her on some things. Specifically, Hillary's convenient electioneering position on NAFTA, her obvious close relationship with Lobbyists, her refusal to be forthcoming on her income tax disclosures (until after the primaries and only if she wins the nomination - again how convenient), and her refusal to come clean on the 527 group, American Leadership Project Ads.
She wan't to bully and call him on the campaign practices? Great, let's go.

She is seriously bi-polar or many-polar. I really do feel for Bill now too! Can you imagine that fit she threw when he told her about Monica!! There are five different sides to her.

She has one foot in the grave and the other on a banana peel!!! Hahahaha!

"I don't give them Hell. I just tell the truth about them and they think it's Hell."

Harry Truman; February 23, 2008 9:39 PM
shelby said...: "We are hoping to bring reason, truth and humanity to all. That is our message." - Mojorisen 2/21/08

"She has one foot in the grave and the other on a banana peel. Hahahaha. - Mojorisen 2/23/08

I guess Hillary isn't the only one in need of bi-polar meds Mojo!

One moment it's Kumbaya the other gotcha. Keep shining the light on Hillary - what hypocrisy.; February 24, 2008 2:54 PM
Anonymous said...: Welcome All To The Barack Obama Religious Revival Where Our Messiah Will Heal All Our Wounds And Bring Us Eternal Life Forever, We Shall Forever Live In The Shadow Of His Great Majesty Barack Obama, Should He Find You Sick Or Crippled He Will Place Hands Upon You And You Will Rise From Your Disabilities, He Shall Part The Waters Of The Sea, Bring About Nucleur Disarmament, And Place A New Star In The Heavens, All Within 30 Days Of Taking Office!

Keep Drinking The Kool-Aid !; February 24, 2008 2:57 PM
NO Obama said...: What some people don't realize is that Obama has attracted a frenzy of young voters who may not necessarily vote or show up at the polls in Nov. due to many reasons--relocation for new jobs, etc.

So this is a big problem for Obama should he get the nomination.

And it's also something that the Obama bandwagon hasn't thought through.

Remember when an unknown, untested big hat governor from TX was all the rage?

Look at us now!

Obama can't make the things he promises magically happen. He will find more resistence from a moderate Congress than Hillary Clinton would with her well-thought out and detailed proposals.

But when people vote on the basis of being star struck and liking the rhetoric and speeches, this country is often on the short end in the final result.; February 24, 2008 3:21 PM
shelby said...: Anonymous NY-

Better be careful - the wife warns us that there will not be another run if he loses. Not even hope for a second coming with this one!; February 24, 2008 3:31 PM
MOJORISIN' said...: MEOW!!!CLAWS ARE COMING OUT JUST LIKE YOUR GIRL HILLARY'S. HEHEHEHE...

Well, have fun! I got to run.. the Messiah is coming on live on CNN in just a few and I'll be in my glazed over state of delusion for the rest of the afternoon in between break dancin' and shooting up the K-Aid !!!

HAHAHAHA!!!

oH, THERE HE IS!!! OMG! Bye bye by e.; February 24, 2008 4:34 PM
MOJORISIN' said...: In my state of delusion, I forgot to add:

"Enough of the Speeches,

Enough of the Big Rallies,

Enough of the winning the Primaries and Caucusses,

Enough of the Endorsements,

Enough of the calm, cool, and rational personality,

Enough of the Record Cash Being Raised,

Its time you explain yourself Mr. BARACK OBAMA! COME TO OHIO AND TELL ME HOW YOU DO IT! NOW, RIGHT NOW, BEFORE IT'S TOO LATE. PLEASE! PRETTY PLEASE. WITH SUGAR ON TOP?"; February 24, 2008 4:53 PM
Independent Voter said...: Another great nugget on how Clinton worked "HARD" for the kids in her early years. NOT!!!!!!!!!!
http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/ny-usark245589997feb24,0,2670956.story

"Hillary Rodham Clinton often invokes her "35 years of experience making change" on the campaign trail, recounting her work in the 1970s on behalf of battered and neglected children and impoverished legal-aid clients."

"But there is a little-known episode Clinton doesn't mention in her standard campaign speech in which those two principles collided. In 1975, a 27-year-old Hillary Rodham, acting as a court-appointed attorney, attacked the credibility of a 12-year-old girl in mounting an aggressive defense for an indigent client accused of rape in Arkansas - using her child development background to help the defendant."

The article goes on further to say,

"In her 2003 autobiography "Living History," Clinton writes that she initially balked at the assignment, but eventually secured a lenient plea deal for Taylor after a New York-based forensics expert she hired "cast doubt on the evidentiary value of semen and blood samples collected by the sheriff's office."

However, that account leaves out a significant aspect of her defense strategy - attempting to impugn the credibility of the victim, according to aNewsday examination of court and investigative files and interviews with witnesses, law enforcement officials and the victim.

Rodham, records show, questioned the sixth grader's honesty and claimed she had made false accusations in the past. She implied that the girl often fantasized and sought out "older men" like Taylor, according to a July 1975 affidavit signed "Hillary D. Rodham" in compact cursive."

Yep sure looks to me like she had the KIDS best interest in mind. Just like now, it was/is ALL about her not about what was/is the right thing to do.; February 24, 2008 5:52 PM
MOJORISIN' said...: Isn't it time for Bill to go to the hospital with chest pains or something? Oh wait, I forgot, that's March 3.

Just watch.; February 24, 2008 9:06 PM
Independent Voter said...: LOL mojo!; February 24, 2008 9:22 PM
MOJORISIN' said...: Dave - Ain't she the devil !
All these posts about Obama being the Chosen One and the next Messiah!! Who knows, I'm sorta beginning to believe their hype, maybe he actually is. The more they bring this up, the more I see the evil.

Is he the 'One'? Is he the 'One'?

I do believe, he's the 'ONE'.

PEACE !!; February 24, 2008 10:52 PM

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Monday, February 11, 2008

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