Democratic Convention Watch: Open Thread

Saturday, March 01, 2008

Open Thread

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Who's going to win, who has a better chance against McCain, or whatever else is on your mind.

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We have started a new Open Thread here.

1036 comments:

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Carrie said...: OH MY GOD!

I know I'm a few posts behind, but I have to say about the Spitzer stuff - you guys are nuts!

Spitzer's scandal is so outrageous BECAUSE he was held by EVERYONE as the ultimate in squeaky clean.

He was nick-named Elliot Ness for his time as NY district attorney. Wall Street/big business LOATHED him because he went after corruption. Ironically, the actions he took prompted the banking surveillance practices that got him busted.

He took down several prostitution rings as DA.

His link to the "sex ring"...HE HIRED A GIRL - multiple times, and was incredibly stupid about how he did it. Hardly a deep seeded conspiracy. In no way reflects on his donors and associates who associated with him BECAUSE he was, by all accounts, the model of propriety. He duped EVERYONE!

Again...linking this to Hillary and saying that she didn't do enough to stop it is so freakin' stupid.

I know some of the comments are meant to bait. I hope this is one of those, because if not - you guys really need to broaden your news exposure.

WTF?!?; March 12, 2008 9:55 PM
Carrie said...: Recap of recent news events that take steam out of many of the arguments Obama supporters have made here:

- Obama's the one obstructing the MI/FL revotes (not Clinton)
- NAFTA-gate stuff against Obama has held up, while unsubstantiated claim against Clinton fizzled (none of the room full of journalists who supposedly heard her campaign mentioned specifically in a public statement by a sr. Canadian official giving an official statement came forward...the article pasted here was just dumb)
- Clinton denounced Ferraro's statement and had her resign - just like Obama would have
- Spitzer disappointed the 70% of NYers who voted for him b/c of his squeaky clean image and crime crushing history - including Clinton, and undoubtedly his wife
- Obama's attack on Clinton's contributions in Northern Ireland have been rebuffed - turns out she kicked major tusch there
- Obama attempted to match Clinton's 30-odd military endorsements, and came up with 9...impressive, but not by comparison - and the one endorsement I've heard was the lamest I've heard (cited "no Obama drama" and his 2002 speech - unimpressive - particularly in comparison with Clinton's endorsements that all focused on their professional interactions and her knowledge/plans)
- Did I mention Obama's actively thwarting a redo in MI/FL (noting that several of you suggested that he was all for it, and that made him so much better than Clinton who was opposed)...if he wins that way, won't you be embarrassed? I'm just sayin' - that's what you said.; March 12, 2008 10:07 PM
Carrie said...: I will agree on one thing: Bill Clinton's early trap flapping did Hillary no good.

However - she's been winning the big states BECAUSE of the rural votes. Yes, big states have big urban areas. They also have big industrial areas, big rural areas, etc. It's by no means a "having it both ways" kind of deal.; March 12, 2008 10:10 PM
NO Obama said...: Carrie, the person who made the initial comparison to Spitzer/Clinton and Obama/Rezko says it was done to show Hillary supporters how ridiculous our associating Obama to Rezko and corruption is.

And then some others jumped on the band wagon trying to be funny I think

This election is beinning to remind me of FL in 2000 when Bush blocked the vote count.

I've thought in many ways Obama was like Bush and now I see he wants the presidency so bad he will act just like him.

Very sad for this country.; March 12, 2008 10:15 PM
Carrie said...: Time -

Thanks - what a relief that people realize how stupid the leap from Clinton to Spitzer to a Clinton sex ring tie is.

I probably didn't get the funny because the analogy of Clinton/Spitzer to Obama/Rezko is pretty weak.
- Spitzer by any and all accounts SHOCKED EVERYONE with his behavior because all of his work had centered on fighting this type of thing (and because "he blushed at dirty jokes," blah, blah)
- Rezko's was already a slum lord (any "community organizer" working on housing issues would have known that), and was already under investigation for corrupt meddling in government when the shady home buying deal was made
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oXAQ3BHTbjs)

The Rezko stuff does smell pretty bad. I have reasons to dislike/not support Obama that rank higher on my priority list, so I don't dwell, but really...does look pretty bad.; March 12, 2008 10:33 PM
NO Obama said...: I sent this to Howard Demon:

I signed the petition and this is the comment I made:

The fact that the voters were disenfranchised due to the tug of war between the DNC and the state of FL is very unfair and undemocratic to the VOTERS!

The votes must count and delegates must be seated. Hillary Clinton did not campaign in FL but Obama did so technically he shouldn't get any delegates. However, he will.

It is not right or fair to punish the voters for this imbicillic situation. The Constitution has been amended so AMEND the rules!; March 12, 2008 10:55 PM
Carrie said...: Have to add, in part for levity:

Pro - you said, "Well why has she done nothing to combat this, or prevent these type of rings in NY. They are saying Spitzer may have been doing it for 5 to 10 years."

The ring wasn't in NY. In one of the MANY, MANY stories about this, one person editorialized that she thought prostitution's illegality was silly, and that she was only upset that he took his business out of state rather than serving the NY economy.; March 12, 2008 11:37 PM
hank said...: Yeah Carrie,

I've thought Hillary was a lot like Bush. You know, power at any cost. Even willing to rely on a half baked election in Florida and Michigan to get it.

Really sad indeed.; March 12, 2008 11:41 PM
Carrie said...: She's not relying on a half-baked election - she's calling for a do-over, and her backers are offering to work with Obama backers to raise the funds to do it.

Trouble is, he's suddenly opposed to the do-over, and if we proceed without his buy-in (or if Clinton supporters alone raise the funds), she's accused of doing something shady.

Maybe her desire to have MI and FL count in some fashion is self-serving, but then his desire to suppress the voters of two big states can only be viewed as self-serving. Again, a self-serving call for promoting democracy puts Clinton on firmer moral ground than a self-serving call for disenfranchising millions of voters.

Obama - for the people, as long as it serves him. Very sad.; March 12, 2008 11:46 PM
hank said...: Carrie,

No he isn't. She wants to overhaul the Florida voting system overnight. They have never had experience in mail-in voting in Florida and he simply wants to make sure it is fair. In fact he has cosponsored a bill in the senate to allow for mail-in ballots.

He is 100% behind the re-vote, and said he would leave it to the DNC to decide how it is carried out.

Don't lower yourself down into the gutter with Time and Anonnyrepublican.; March 13, 2008 12:28 AM
Siroco said...: Carie
Its all sarcasm. Dont get your drawers in a bunch. The point is -- its the same type of reasoning that was being used by various flacks on this board to criticize Obama about Rezko. If the one is valid so is the other -- or both are invalid.; March 13, 2008 12:32 AM
NO Obama said...: Bottom line is that the voters shouldn't be disenfranchised. So if it takes AMENDING the DNC rules, then so be it.

It really isn't all that complicated but Obama is resisting what's fair--letting the votes count JUST LIKE George Bush!

Shame on you, Barack Obama.; March 13, 2008 12:33 AM
NO Obama said...: frstan

Not at all the case. What you say about the validity or invalidity is NOT logically sound.

The premises are not comparable so your conclusion is false.

Take some courses in logic.

Besides, even if we were to give you a D- in logic and say your conclusion MIGHT be valid, does one wrong make a right?

What's worse also, associating with and doing business with a scuzball slumlord and not helping the poor people living in his tenaments or knowing someone who solicited prostitutes (unbeknownst to Hillary).

Get REAL!; March 13, 2008 12:41 AM
hank said...: So Time,

You think the Obama campaign threw hundreds of ballots out in black trash bags like Bush operatives did in Florida?

Where are you going with that? And, let's not forget that Hillary went down to campaign there right after the election, even though all candidates and the DNC agreed they would not. What do you suppose she had in mind?

Not to mention that had Kucinich and Edwards not been on the ballot the lion's share of those votes would have gone to Obama, as most have them have gone to him in the other races.

Even so, Florida "as is" wouldn't do it for her anyway. He would still pick up at least a 1/3 of the delegates.; March 13, 2008 12:45 AM
hank said...: The Clinton's have done a lot of slumming around with scumbags over the years. Does Marc Rich ring any bells?

Let me refresh your memory:

"Marc Rich (born Marc David Reich on December 18, 1934) is an international commodities trader. He fled the United States in 1983 to live in Switzerland while being prosecuted on charges of tax evasion and illegally making oil deals with Iran during the hostage crisis.

He received a presidential pardon from United States President Bill Clinton in 2001."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marc_Rich

Any questions?; March 13, 2008 12:51 AM
hank said...: Oh, and why did Bill Pardon him? He was a huge Clinton campaign donor while he was on the lam.; March 13, 2008 12:53 AM
Bill UK said...: This might be of interest to some of you.

Clinton will lose the popular vote even if the corrupted (meaning not legitimate) primary results from Florida and Michigan are used as the starting point.

Explanation.

Including the corrupted results from Florida and Michigan Obama has a lead in the popular vote of 94,933.

Of the ten primaries remaining the present most likely winners (being generous to Clinton here) in each case are:

Clinton takes Pennsylvania, Guam, West Virginia, Kentucky, Puerto Rico.

Obama takes Indiana, North Carolina, Oregon, Montana, South Dakota.

Populations of primaries given to Clinton are 22,601,216.

Populations of primaries given to Obama are 20,907,851

Difference in populations is 1,693,365.

Assume that 15% of population takes part in primaries (very high but would advantage Clinton), then number of extra votes in Clinton primaries equals 254,005

If these extra votes split 65:35 to Clinton (very generous to Clinton) then she would pick up 76,202, this would leave Obama with a popular vote majority of 18,731. A small amount but still a majority.

Of course it should be remembered that in Michigan Clinton picked up 328,151 votes to Obama's 0 (zero) votes alone.

Above we assume that from this point on that the votes are even out in all the States.

But considering that the Rasmussen poll in Michigan (March 7th) gives both candidates 41% in any redo then that would reult in a starting point for Obama not of a lead of 94,933 but a lead of 423,084!; March 13, 2008 12:55 AM
Siroco said...: Obama's the one obstructing the MI/FL revotes (not Clinton)

Comment: all authority over this lies with the DNC and the two State Democratic Parties involved. Obama stated many times that he would leave it to them -- any fair solution would be acceptable. And your charge is unspecific and fuzzy.

- NAFTA-gate stuff against Obama has held up, while unsubstantiated claim against Clinton fizzled (none of the room full of journalists who supposedly heard her campaign mentioned specifically in a public statement by a sr. Canadian official giving an official statement came forward...the article pasted here was just dumb)

Comment: None of the Journalists etc etc. Says who? You ?

- Clinton denounced Ferraro's statement and had her resign - just like Obama would have

Comment: Obama's advisor was gone the next day. How long was it between Ferraro's first statement and her resignation.? When did HRC use the word "denounce". In her first statement? In her second? In her third? When?

- Obama's attack on Clinton's contributions in Northern Ireland have been rebuffed - turns out she kicked major tusch there

Comment: she did according to one individual who supports her. Others active on the scene have described her as being a by-stander. You omit her claim to have gone to Macedonia and negotiated opening the border when in fact the border was opened the day before she arrived. You also fail to discuss her claim to have faced red-phone decisions in Bosnia. A person who was on that trip with her states the only "red-phone" decisions they were faced with were questions like "Do we eat here, or at the next stop?"

- Obama attempted to match Clinton's 30-odd military endorsements, and came up with 9...impressive, but not by comparison - and the one endorsement I've heard was the lamest I've heard (cited "no Obama drama" and his 2002 speech - unimpressive - particularly in comparison with Clinton's endorsements that all focused on their professional interactions and her knowledge/plans)

Comment: And you think thats all the endorsements? Clinton has been loosing leads the whole Campaign. What make you think this one will stand? But since you admit they are "impressive" you concede the "threshold" issue. Very well. :)

- Did I mention Obama's ... a redo in MI/FL ...blah...blah...blah

Comment: yes you did, and it was answered.

On the hand, I do appreciate you effort at rational discussion. Even though your are wrong in your facts and conclusions, you do make an effort to be intelligible and I appreciate that.; March 13, 2008 12:59 AM
Bill UK said...: Sorry last 2 paragraphs somehow switched about in above post.; March 13, 2008 1:00 AM
NO Obama said...: hank

Uhhhh, no. The fact that Obama is blocking the votes being counted is what I'm saying which is about the same as throwing away the votes I suppose.

If someone took their name of the ballot or didn't put it there in the first place, too bad for them.

Voters can write in names.; March 13, 2008 1:04 AM
Siroco said...: Carie wrote: "The Rezko stuff does smell pretty bad. I have reasons to dislike/not support Obama that rank higher on my priority list, so I don't dwell, but really...does look pretty bad."

Other than it was Rezko's wife who sold Obama a strip of land to widen their yard what of it? No specific wrong doing is aledged. Just guilt by association. EXACTLY LIKE THE SPITZER/CLINTON CONNECTION.; March 13, 2008 1:07 AM
NO Obama said...: Mark Rich was a crony of the republican cabal which included Scooter Libby as his attorney.

Lewis Libby, a top Republican lawyer who is now vice president Dick Cheney's chief of staff, told the House Government Reform Committee last night that he agreed with much of Bill Clinton's widely discredited op-ed article outlining the former president's reasons for pardoning fugitive tax evader Marc Rich.

In a session that stretched late into the evening, Libby, who represented Rich for several years ending in the spring of 2000, told the committee he believes Rich is not guilty of the tax and racketeering charges filed by the gov't.

Get your facts straight!; March 13, 2008 1:12 AM
hank said...: Uh time,

No, they can't write names in. People did do that in Michigan. That is against primary rules and those ballots were not counted.

If you want to play by the rules, then we shouldn't count the ballots in Florida OR Michigan.

Where did you do your logic courses? Bob Jones University or Oral Roberts?; March 13, 2008 1:14 AM
Siroco said...: time wrote:The fact that the voters were disenfranchised due to the tug of war between the DNC and the state of FL is very unfair and undemocratic to the VOTERS!

The votes must count and delegates must be seated. Hillary Clinton did not campaign in FL but Obama did so technically he shouldn't get any delegates. However, he will.

Comment: You omit the role of the Florida State Democratic Party who have had a long time to deal with this and done nothing.

And why in the world do you say "...must count.."?

According to the published rules they were not going to count and everyone knew this Straw Poll was not going to count at the time. Had it been other wise, campaigning would have been conducted differently. And: in what way did Sen Obama "campaign" ? Do you know? He had Multi-State ad buys on Cable Television during this period bought long before. The Cable Companies involved said canceling the ads for the portions of FA overlapping the Georgia buys only was not possible technically.; March 13, 2008 1:21 AM
Bill UK said...: Can anyone help, I am trying to find on the HillaryClintom.com site an up to date counter of the delegates and superdelegates she says she has won. Just cannot find it, any link would be appreciated.

Many thanks.; March 13, 2008 1:22 AM
hank said...: Yeah Libby is a real reliable source. Who made him Judge and Jury? And by the way, Bill Clinton praised Libby in a letter.

"Bill Clinton explained why he pardoned Rich, noting that U.S. tax professors Bernard Wolfman of Harvard Law School and Martin Ginsburg of Georgetown University Law Center concluded that no crime was committed, and that the companies' tax reporting position was reasonable [4]. In the same letter Clinton listed Libby as one of three "distinguished Republican lawyers" who supported Rich's pardon."

Again, why pardon him if he was a Republican operative as you say? Instead, should Clinton have just let the justice system deal with him? Hmmm, interesting...very interesting.

You see this is what we have to look forward to from the McCain camp if Hillary is the nominee. Granted, McCain is also in the same boat with his association to the Savings and Loan scandal.; March 13, 2008 1:23 AM
Siroco said...: Carrie, actually I believe it was based in NY. The [cough] "Bill" for the young lady in question included AMTRAC fare to DC. Apparently she had to bring a trunkful of equipment along which couldnt have passed airline security checks.

;); March 13, 2008 1:25 AM
hank said...: Face it folks, the Clinton's are in it up to their necks. Why do you think Obama has such appeal?

I mean, despite what Ferraro says, It is simply amazing that a BLACK man with the name Barack Hussein Obama has come as far as he has.

I am very pleased about the strides this country has made to get to this point.; March 13, 2008 1:31 AM
Siroco said...: She's not relying on a half-baked election - she's calling for a do-over, and her backers are offering to work with Obama backers to raise the funds to do it.

Trouble is, he's suddenly opposed to the do-over, and if we proceed without his buy-in (or if Clinton supporters alone raise the funds), she's accused of doing something shady.

Carie wrote: Maybe her desire to have MI and FL count in some fashion is self-serving,

comment: very good Carie. I do have some respect for you, because you, like me, have some respect for the truth.

but then his desire to suppress the voters of two big states [removed two superfuous "self-servings"] puts Clinton on firmer moral ground than a self-serving call for disenfranchising millions of voters.

comment: You see one one the problems with our politics is this deliberate effort to blacken the motives of opponets. Do you really think that the fact that Sen Obama's name was not on the MI ballot because THE DNC ASKED HIM TO PULL IT and he complied with their request as HRC did not, has nothing to do with it? Do you REALLY believe that his position is "mere" self-serving and nothing else? That there is no question of fairness here AT ALL?

Obama - for the people, as long as it serves him. Very sad.

Comment: what is very sad indeed, is that such a mind as yours, is, to its own detriment, being turned into cork-screws to keep justifying your candidate. HRC is not worthy of you. Very Sad.; March 13, 2008 1:40 AM
dwit said...: Time

Yeah, maybe we shouldn't count the votes in Florida and Michigan after all. If they voted for leaders that moved their primaries up, then "too bad for them."; March 13, 2008 1:41 AM
NO Obama said...: A new SurveyUSA poll has Hillary up by 19 over Sen. Obama (55-36). In late February, a Rasmussen poll

Obama will not be able to win in the fall. Nominating him is fool's folly but then so far, the DNC has been that way!

With the Hillary supporters who will vote for McCain, write in her name or abstain, PLUS the distinct possiblity he can't carry red or some blue states, he doesn't stand a chance!; March 13, 2008 1:42 AM
NO Obama said...: Testimonials and PROOF:

Hillary played a significant role in Northern Ireland peace:

http://blog.hillaryclinton.com/

Watch the video.; March 13, 2008 1:49 AM
Siroco said...: Oregon has mail-in voting, and it works well. True enough. But! Oregon has on file (from Registration) digital images of the voters signature to compare with the signature on the mail-in ballot. This is largely fraud proof. Having a mail-in without any means of signature verification in place leaves the door wide open (or should I say 'leaves the chad wide hanging'?)

This is the reason the ENTIRE Florida House of Representatives delegation opposed having a "mail-in". Are they all Obama stooges?; March 13, 2008 1:49 AM
dwit said...: Hate to break it to you Time, but Obama has carried the "red states" so far.

Let's see...Clinton has convincingly only taken Oklahoma, Arkansas and Tennessee.

What else you got?; March 13, 2008 1:50 AM
NO Obama said...: The REBUBLICAN led FL legislature voted to move the primary up.

The voters had no direct say (referendum) in it.

The stupid DNC created this situation with their "rules".

I wasn't buying into the theory that Howard Dean, Ted Kennedy, John Kerry and some others did all this (the rules) to try to help Obama (whom they have been mentoring) get the nomination.

I'm beginning to wonder now if it might be true.; March 13, 2008 1:53 AM
NO Obama said...: The poll I posted was the Pennsylvania primary poll which shows Hillary 19 pts. ahead of Obama.; March 13, 2008 1:54 AM
NO Obama said...: But, I was referring to the National election--Obama won't carry the red state--McCain will.; March 13, 2008 1:55 AM
Siroco said...: timeforchange's FIRST PREMISS:"I am RIGHT."
timeforchange's SECOND PREMISS: "The other guy is WRONG."

From which we can safely conclude:

bye bye........... ;); March 13, 2008 1:56 AM
Siroco said...: Hi Bill UK. well reasoned post.; March 13, 2008 1:59 AM
Bill UK said...: Time, 3 months ago Clinton had leads in the Democratic candidate polls of up to 29%, that has reverted to a lead for Obama!

Just under 6 weeks and a lot can happen now. Clinton cannot win the pledged delegate count and she cannot win the popular vote.

Clinton is cooked, she is evenhaving a dinner for non-pledged super delegates!

What is she going to say, ignor the pledged delegate count, ignor the popular vote, ignor that Obama has better poll ratings against McCain!

Clinton is a loser, and a sore loser at that.; March 13, 2008 1:59 AM
dwit said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; March 13, 2008 2:02 AM
dwit said...: Come on now, even George Mithcell says her role was minor. I believe he characterized it as "helpful and supportive".

https://www.blogger.com/comment.
g?blogID=18747118&postID=
3229831814451809023&page=3

Mark Devenport, Northern Ireland political editor for the BBC, covered Bill Clinton's visits to Belfast.

"[Hillary Clinton] visited a fish and chips shop in South Belfast and met with working-class women who were trying to build bridges across the sectarian barriers that divide Protestant and Catholic barriers within Belfast."

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/
story.php?storyId=88154000; March 13, 2008 2:03 AM
Bill UK said...: frstan,

Thank you. I try to just stick with facts that can be proofed rather than just assumed facts with no proof or that cannot be validated. Unfortunately that does not suit everyone.

Time, by the way the latest poll now only give Clinton an 18% lead, that is a drop of 1% in 1 day!; March 13, 2008 2:03 AM
Siroco said...: name off the ballot: The DNC asked all candidates . They all did except HRC who "accidentally" failed to make her request by the MI deadline.; March 13, 2008 2:04 AM
NO Obama said...: Real Clear Politics:

Florida: McCain vs. Obama

Polling Data
Poll Date Sample McCain (R) Obama (D) Und Spread
RCP Average 02/06 - 02/24 - 47.0 37.7 12.7 McCain +9.3
Mason-Dixon 02/21 - 02/24 625 RV 47 37 16 McCain +10.0
Rasmussen 02/16 - 02/16 500 LV 53 37 10 McCain +16.0
Quinnipiac 02/06 - 02/12 1009 LV 41 39 12 McCain +2.0

General Election; March 13, 2008 2:10 AM
dwit said...: Here is another great article on Hillary's role as "chief negotiator" and First Lady.

http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/
editorials/archives/2008/03/12/2003405194; March 13, 2008 2:14 AM
NO Obama said...: dwit...no surprise you didn't look at the video and see the testimonials from N. Ireland officials appearing with Hillary today stating that she was very much a factor in the peace process.

Keep drinking the kool aid.; March 13, 2008 2:15 AM
Bill UK said...: Time,

RealClearPolitics

RCP Average 02/28 - 03/10 - 42.8 47.0 7.4 Obama +4.2
NBC/WSJ 03/07 - 03/10 1,012 RV 44 47 5 Obama +3.0
Newsweek 03/05 - 03/06 1,215 RV 45 46 -- Obama +1.0
Cook/RT Strategies 02/28 - 03/02 802 RV 38 47 12 Obama +9.0
ABC/Wash Post 02/28 - 03/02 LV 42 53 3 Obama +11.0
Rasmussen (Wed) 4 Day Tracking 1700 LV 44 43 13 McCain +1.0
Gallup (Wed) 3 Day Tracking 4372 RV 44 46 4 Obama +2.0

The link is here:
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008
/president/us/general_election_mccain_vs_obama-225.html; March 13, 2008 2:16 AM
NO Obama said...: Former Democratic senator George Mitchell, who brokered the 1998 peace accord, said Clinton was "quite helpful."

"She became quite active in encouraging women in Northern Ireland to engage in the political process and in the peace process, and ultimately the role of women was important in moving the process forward," said Mitchell, who is neutral in the presidential race. "She was one of many people who participated in encouraging women to get involved, not the only one."

John Hume, the Catholic leader who shared the 1998 Nobel Peace Prize for his work on the peace accord, credits Clinton for playing a "pivotal role" in the peace process.

Some people have better or closer perspectives as to what went on and really happened.

You and someone else may participate in a process in different locations at different times with different officials and you each come away with a different perspective.

Those closest to the process including N. Ireland officals today said she played a significant role.

Barack Obama definitely played NONE!!; March 13, 2008 2:20 AM
Siroco said...: I had sworn off replying to timeforchange on the reasonable grounds it was time for a change.

But! Ill do one more:

The polling pattern throughout this election has been
1. Before the candidate begin working the State: Big HRC lead.
2. Obama arrives and works in State : Obamas poll numbers go up
3. HRC arrives and works in State: HRC's poll numbers go down.

Conclusion: ??; March 13, 2008 2:21 AM
NO Obama said...: frstan

Conclusion?

Barack Obama makes good speeches generalizing and profiteering from others' words, others' ideas, etc.

Many ignorant people caught up in the rapture buy into it!; March 13, 2008 2:23 AM
Bill UK said...: Time please give link for your General Election running poll above, I have given mine as mine is correct. Obviously we now need to know where you got yours from and to what it refers as the figures you have given have been proved totally incorrect.; March 13, 2008 2:25 AM
NO Obama said...: Bill UK

I posted where I got it on the post itself at the top.; March 13, 2008 2:27 AM
Bill UK said...: Time,

How is it that Clinton supporters regard Obama supporters as nieve, stupid, ignorant, etc., etc..?

May I just remind you that Clinton is losing the popular vote.; March 13, 2008 2:28 AM
dwit said...: timeforchange said...

"But, I was referring to the National election--Obama won't carry the red state--McCain will."

You do realize that TWICE AS MANY democrats came out in the primaries than Republicans, right? That says to me that Obama has a very good chance at taking some of them. However, Hillary doesn't have that going for her.

He, on the other hand, does have pretty good chances in most of the "blue states" as they have been much closer. That is why he is ahead in the delegate count.; March 13, 2008 2:28 AM
NO Obama said...: You ask how Hillary supporters regard Obama supporters as less than astute?

Do you remember the last 2 general elections?

Bush is in the WH thanks to the stupidity and ingnorance of millions of voters.

That's why/how.

The electorate is not always right nor do they often make well-informed decisions.

Because the majority rules, doesn't make the majority wise or right these days, ie. George W. Bush.; March 13, 2008 2:31 AM
Bill UK said...: Time, so what has Florida to do with the General Election as a whole? I thought it was 50 States not one, and definately not just the 'Big States'!

Mind you I forgot for a second, your a Clintonite!; March 13, 2008 2:32 AM
dwit said...: Time,

I guess you missed this one.

http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/
editorials/archives/2008/
03/12/2003405194; March 13, 2008 2:36 AM
NO Obama said...: I read it and it is quite complimentary to Hillary's efforts.; March 13, 2008 2:40 AM
Bill UK said...: Time, but the USA is a democracy!

Mind you, there seem to be many Clinton supporters as well as Clinton herself who now seem to want to change that.

Clinton's only hope is now the super delegates. Lets look how these super delegates stck up, elected representatives go 95 for Clinton 97 for Obama
DPL/DNC go 149 for Clinton 106 for Obama.
Ad ons are zero for Clinton 2 for Obama

So the only lead that Clinton has in the race is for DPL/DNC members. Need any more be said.; March 13, 2008 2:42 AM
dwit said...: Oh yes, I compliment her myself. She was a great FIRST LADY and would make a much better President than John McCain.

Her achilles is much the same as McCain's, however. She is a Washington insider and very beholden to those who have made Washington the cesspool it currently is.; March 13, 2008 2:44 AM
NO Obama said...: On CNN at the moment a black civil rights leader (elderly lady) says Barack Obama is supposed to be above the frey about what Geraldine Ferraro. She is a ery wise black woman.

She said too that mentioning a person's race or gender in this campaign is not sexism or racism, simply a statement of fact.

She said Obama is obviously black and Hillary is obviously a woman.

Enough said.; March 13, 2008 2:46 AM
NO Obama said...: dwit, you are fooling yourself if you don't think Obama is an insider.

He did a lot of fundraising for Senate and other members.

He is being backed by some influential members of congress.

He is beholden to them.

He is no different than you say Hillary Clinton and others in DC are.

Wake up!; March 13, 2008 2:48 AM
Bill UK said...: Time, don't you understand?

It is not the fact that she Ferraro said he was Black, but the fact that she said he was only in the position because he is black, that is the racist remark!

If you do not understand that then I feel sorry for you.; March 13, 2008 2:50 AM
NO Obama said...: In context, Gerry Ferraro also said, if she were not a woman, she would not have been the VP nominee.

So is she being sexist about herself saying essentially the same thing about herself as she was saying about Obama?; March 13, 2008 2:50 AM
Bill UK said...: Time, the simple answer is 'YES'.

Ferraro like Clinton I would suggest, after all it is Clinton that has accepted funds for her campaign from a company under investigation for multiple sex harrasment complaints.

But again this does not surprise me or by the looks of it the majority of voters.; March 13, 2008 2:53 AM
NO Obama said...: Bill UK, again, she said the same thing about herself regarding being a woman and that is why she was the VP nominee. She was making a POINT, not being racist.

But you will never concede or understand the distinction between racism and statement of fact or observation.

Obama is (black, well only half)
Hillary is a woman.

We should be able to talk about those factors but the press has turned them into dirty words and playing to sexism or racism.

Very disturbing.; March 13, 2008 2:54 AM
Bill UK said...: Time, it is only disturbing when you get called out on them!

Perhaps you should consider it should make no difference if Obama was Black or White, he is by far the better candidate over Clinton any day of the week.

What is more the majority of people (voters) also think the above as well.

This is an election for the best person for the job, and Clinton has been found wanting, hence the reason she has lost twice as many primaries/caucuses than she has won, hence the reason she is so far behind in the pledged delegate count, hence the reason she cannot win either the pledged delegates or popular vote.; March 13, 2008 3:00 AM
protactinium said...: Time - "You ask how Hillary supporters regard Obama supporters as less than astute?

That's why/how.

The electorate is not always right nor do they often make well-informed decisions."

You do relize you just made an arguement for Obama right?

Hillary has got more of the "uneducated" peeople with the use of fear, and race poitics.

While Obama won the majority of COLLEGE educated people, and did very well among even WOMEN of this crowed.

So Hillary is running on the same demographic as Bush. She is running on the same fear driven, throw the kitchen sink campaign like the republicans won.

The fact is Hillary is running the same campain Bush did to win. In the same demographics.; March 13, 2008 3:34 AM
protactinium said...: Bill UK - "It is not the fact that she Ferraro said he was Black, but the fact that she said he was only in the position because he is black, that is the racist remark!"

Not only that. Ferraro said the excat same thing about Jesse Jackson 20 years ago. Seems a lot more racist after I found that out.

I did not know black people had all these advantages 20 years ago.
Seems a lot more racist now.

This is meant soley as a ploy to try and create a race divide. Hillary knows she already blew he chances with black, so she will play hate politics to make some whites fear him.

However America is above this. These are tatics from 2 decades ago.; March 13, 2008 3:38 AM
dwit said...: Yes time,

Once again, I will point out to you that I am not a member of either party any longer. As a grown up, I have discovered that neither party represents me as much they do SOME special interests.

I am very well aware that Senator Obama has flaws. I just happen to think his are not as pronounced as those of Senator Clinton.

I also think that her record is too similar to that of John McCain. When the public compares them side by side many may be inclined to vote for him, simply because he is not Clinton or Bush.; March 13, 2008 3:52 AM
NO Obama said...: I also think that her record is too similar to that of John McCain. When the public compares them side by side many may be inclined to vote for him, simply because he is not Clinton or Bush.

---------

Possible. But I will NEVER vote for Barack Obama and I don't think he can win. Hillary has a better chance against McCain.

Whe the general public sees how lite Obama is compared to McCain if Obama unfortunately gets the nomination, they will feel more secure with McCain. At least they know what they're getting.

Obama has too many ????????????; March 13, 2008 4:06 AM
Siroco said...: Dwit someone said it well, HRC is running against Barack as if she were the Republican Nominee; March 13, 2008 4:10 AM
dwit said...: Regarding the Ferraro comment, well said Bill.; March 13, 2008 4:11 AM
dwit said...: frstan said...

"Dwit someone said it well, HRC is running against Barack as if she were the Republican Nominee"

Yes, that is what disturbs me so much. From those I talk to, it seems they are very turned off by her approach. It is really sad, because I feel she could be a very capable leader.

As much as I dislike many of her policies, I will vote for her if she wins the nomination with more "regular delegates" and or the popular vote, after a re-vote.

I have always advocated, one person=one vote and will stand by that.; March 13, 2008 4:18 AM
dwit said...: Time said...

"But I will NEVER vote for Barack Obama and I don't think he can win"

Only a staunch conservative or a fool would take that view. In either case, you just lost all credibility with me. Good luck with McCain.; March 13, 2008 4:23 AM
Bill UK said...: Time,

I am sure everyone will continue to live should you not vote for the Democratic nominee for President.

As for knowing what 'you are getting' with Clinton and McCain, yes the public do know what they will be getting with either of them, that is why Obama has got more votes than either of them!

I must ask you though, you say 'Obama has too many ????????????'

May I ask, is that too many ears? Eyes? Legs? Clothes?

Oh, now I realise what you meant. You mean he has to many supporters.

How silly of me, for a few moments there I thought you were going to lay yet another unsubstantiated claim against Obama. How silly of me. Must just be because that is all you keep on doing.; March 13, 2008 4:24 AM
protactinium said...: I keep hearing this myth that Obama is against the reelection of FL, and MI.

Fact is a mail in ballot is illegal to do in FL.

Alot of districts do not have voting machines.

The excuse for pushing up Flordias nominee process was because they had to replace voting machines in time to cause as much confusion as possible during the generals, and I guess the primarys also.

So what other choices are there?

Caucus! However Hillary does not want that because Obama out organizers her.; March 13, 2008 5:55 AM
Carrie said...: SO many posts...so little time! & I have a sleepy little sack of potatoes in my arm, so down to 1 hand typing.

Comment: ...Obama stated many times that he would leave it to them [dnc]

so why's he going against dean? He won't lead because he wants to follow, but he doesn't follow - it's wasting precious time.

Comment: None of the Journalists etc etc. Says who? You ?

says the 1 article that the hrc stuff stemmed from - th source refused to be named...1 source of a supposed roomful of journalists there to report on public statements

Comment: Obama's advisor was gone the next day. How long...

power was gone Fri - 1 day after controversy exploded but 4 days after her Mon statement. ferraro was gone tues, 1 day after controversy exploded but 4 days after her Fri statement.

When did HRC use the word "denounce". In her first statement? In her second? In her third? When?

i used denounce as a verb, not a quote

Comment: she did according to one individual who supports her....

& newspaper articles published in 1999, and
Senator George Mitchell
Inez McCormack, first female president of the Irish Congress of Trade Unions
Baroness May Blood of the House of Lords, who worked for many years as a community leader in the Shankill area of West Belfast
Geraldine McAteer, Chief Executive of West Belfast Partnership Board
Sinn Féin president Gerry Adams

Comment: And you think thats all the endorsements?...

huh? your comment seemed cryptic - please clarify

Comment: yes you did, and it was answered.

not to my satisfaction

On the hand, I do appreciate you effort at rational discussion...

thanks. i think. ever consider i might be right about some stuff? you seem to villify clinton unduly - my facts are accurate
- my conclusions are different, not wrong; March 13, 2008 8:08 AM
Carrie said...: caucus in MI = undemocratic

MI has a 24-hr workforce, many of whom can't participate in a 2-hr caucus, no public transportation, 1/10 the # of polling sites

this isn't about her - it's about us

'sides - obama's camps not pushing a caucus, they're pushing the 50/50 stupidity argument; March 13, 2008 8:13 AM
Carrie said...: frstn -

"The polling pattern throughout this election has been
1. Before the candidate begin working the State: Big HRC lead.
2. Obama arrives and works in State : Obamas poll numbers go up
3. HRC arrives and works in State: HRC's poll numbers go down."

this was true up until 3/4 - clinton is now doing better w/late deciders (i paid particularly close attn to this in OH where I did a lot of volunteer work); March 13, 2008 8:21 AM
Carrie said...: hank -
"He is 100% behind the re-vote, and said he would leave it to the DNC to decide how it is carried out."

'cept dean proposed the mail in; March 13, 2008 8:23 AM
Carrie said...: bill-

"Can anyone help, I am trying to find on the HillaryClintom.com site an up to date counter of the delegates and superdelegates she says she has won. Just cannot find it, any link would be appreciated."

i don't think she ever had it posted - or if she did, i never saw it
she does have an archive of press releases under the newsroom umbrella if you want to sift through

hope that helps...; March 13, 2008 8:28 AM
Bill UK said...: Carrie,

Thank you, I have been searching high and low for it, thought I must have been missing something obvious. I will give a pass on going through the press cuttings though.

Again thank you Carrie.; March 13, 2008 9:30 AM
Bill UK said...: Does anybody know of a link where there is a list of Super Delegate email addresses please.

I wish simply to ask each of the delegates a simple question.

"If one of the two nominees wins both the pledged delegate count and the popular vote (whatever form the solution to the Florida and Michigan primaries is finally decided) will you vote for that delegate at the convention irrespective of any previous endorsement you may have made?"; March 13, 2008 9:43 AM
Carrie said...: Bill

Again, I don't know of a single one-stop spot for super delegate emails. However, most hold public office, and have public email. I would imagine the DNC folks can be reached throug democrats.org. The DPL I don't know about. I'm sure Jimmy Carter and Al Gore have fanclubs :-) - Bill Clinton'd better vote for his wife (it's the least he can do), so you probably don't need to contact him.

I would add, though: should the elected super delegates vote with their constituents - since they are the people who gave them the super delegate status and ergo gave them the delegate vote? Or should they feel beholden to all voters - democrat, republican, independent/Alaska, Florida, Massachussettes?; March 13, 2008 12:04 PM
dwit said...: Carrie,

I guess you missed hank's post above:

Hank said...

"Carrie,

No he isn't. She wants to overhaul the Florida voting system overnight. They have never had experience in mail-in voting in Florida and he simply wants to make sure it is fair. In fact he has cosponsored a bill in the senate to allow for mail-in ballots.

He is 100% behind the re-vote, and said he would leave it to the DNC to decide how it is carried out.

Don't lower yourself down into the gutter with Time and Anonnyrepublican."; March 13, 2008 12:07 PM
NO Obama said...: dwit

Why do I have to conform to your idea of what an independent is?

Credibility? Someone is only credible if they hold your views.

You see and INDEPENDENT like me often hold both conservative and liberal views dependent on the issue.

I just happen to think Obama is TOO liberal and also unknown.

He is also divisive. Look at the stuff that goes on here to prove that.

He's never said anything conciliatory or nice to or about Hillary.

He has a reputation in DC for being very stubborn and combative.

I don't think he is who he makes himself out to be in his speeches.

And I don't think he will bring about any change--not the change his supporters are expecting anyway.

He's already firmly entrenched in the ways of Washington and has aligned himself with Ted Kennedy, John Kerry and others to get where he is today.

Wake up! He's NO different and he's much less experienced.

Do you want Ted Kennedy and Kerry pulling his strings?; March 13, 2008 12:31 PM
Siroco said...: Carie: It was a complement, and a sincere one :)

ok that said: {smile} "why is he going against Dean?
specificity please: about what ? mail-in? unsafe, no controls against fraud. Oregon has digital images of voters signatures. FA does not. Didn't I write about that in another post here last night? And you should know as its easy to google that in MI the fight is between the MI Gov. and the MI Party Leadership/DNC.
The entire FA House Of Representatives delegation also opposes mail-in. Are they Obama stooges?

Carie wrote "says the one article the HRC stuff stemmed from....." I refer you to the Canadian Press.

re Ferraro: actually Ferraro first spoke 2 weeks before. And has kept defending her remarks and repeating them. Go to MSNBC -- see Countdown/Keith Obermans's comment.

re: HRC overseas: Ill re-look re N. Ireland Thanks for the specificity. (You did not reply, however about my points on Bosnia and Macedonia.)

when have I "vilified" HRC? I don't think so (except one joke -- identified as such)?

Yes , I do consider you may be right about something. As I said above, Im going to re-look N. Ireland.

However, are your facts accurate? not always. and interpretation, emotional shading in presentation, and similar considerations enter in even when they are. Im describing here not condemning.

Example: "Why is Obama opposing Dean?" Concerns about fairness/fraud which are shared by many including as I said the entire Florida House of Representatives delegation.; March 13, 2008 12:31 PM
NO Obama said...: Bill UK

Obama has too many question marks.

Oh yes, we will all live and I am NOT the only person who will not vote for Obama. There are millions of us based on polls and blogs I'm a member of.

Many millions more than there are people who say they won't vote for Hillary.; March 13, 2008 12:33 PM
NO Obama said...: So what other choices are there?

Amend the rules to allow the current delegates to be seated.

The DNC can make or retract/amend rules as they so choose.; March 13, 2008 12:35 PM
Siroco said...: Time said:
Many millions more than there are people who say they won't vote for Hillary.

Curious, MSNBC just reported Obama's polling "negatives" are 26% while it said HRCs are 51%. So no I dont think. Your unsupported opinion is proof of nothing, but I do understand this concept may elude you.

bye-bye; March 13, 2008 12:38 PM
NO Obama said...: frstan

That is different than many polls I've seen recently and besides, there are exit polls and other polls which show that MORE voters will not vote for Obama than NOT vote for Clinton.

MSNBC? The Obama network?; March 13, 2008 12:44 PM
NO Obama said...: NBC News/Wall St. Journal
Dems: Clinton 47, Obama 43
General: Obama 47, McCain 44
General: Clinton 47, McCain 45; March 13, 2008 12:51 PM
NO Obama said...: http://www.miamiherald.com/851/story/454659.html

DNC Rules don't trump the Constitution.

If the Constitution can be amended to enfranchise blacks and women when it comes to voting, so can the imbicillic DNC rules regarding this primary election in MI & FL.; March 13, 2008 1:00 PM
NO Obama said...: http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5hUPSXLSf9BMjfyPSCc2sdK8RtV8QD8VC4SHO0

Inching closer to the truth...Hillary picks up delegates.; March 13, 2008 1:03 PM
NO Obama said...: Strong in Ohio: “Obama, who lost to Clinton in Ohio… outspent Clinton by nearly two to one.”; March 13, 2008 1:04 PM
NO Obama said...: Reason #1 to support Hillary:
In Arkansas she was instrumental in straightening out their school system - taking it from one of the worst systems to a role model used by other troubled schools on how to improve public education.

Reason #2 to support Hillary:
In 2006, she led the fight to kill the anti-gay Republican constitutional amendment that for the first time would have added laws to the Constitution that would INCREASE discrimination.

Reason #3 to support Hillary:
After being pummeled by the public for trying to pass Universal Health care while she was First Lady, she dusted herself off and in 1997, led a federal effort that provided insurance support for children whose parents were unable to provide them with health coverage.

Reason #4 to Support Hillary:
She was able to secure a raise in research funding for prostate cancer and childhood asthma at the National Institutes of Health.

http://www.taylormarsh.com/archives_view.php?id=27120; March 13, 2008 1:07 PM
NO Obama said...: America is, obviously, uncomfortable talking about race -- and for this reason Obama gets a pass on things other candidates would never be allowed to brush over. His "Hope" and "Change" repetitions are never called onto the carpet for what they really are: empty sentiments. The meida is too scared to properly question or vet this man, because all journalists are terrified of being called racists. That's probably why no one has reported on Jeremiah Wright, Obama's spiritual advisor, or the hate-filled sermons that go on at Obama's church. The media has ignored this because anyone bringing the subject up is automatically called a racist by the Obama camp.

Is this the politics of Hope?

If Obama repeatedly says he will not be a micromanaging CEO as president, but instead will rely on advisors to run the country, then it is fair game to see who his advisors have been up to this point. Obama has had a 20 year relationship with Jeremiah Wright, and he's had a 17 year relationship with indicted political fixer Antoin "Big Tony" Rezko. If these are the sorts of people Obama surrounds himself with, then how can he be trusted to run this country?

Is this the Change Obama believes in?

Or is he really the wolf in sheep's clothing I've said he is?

Why would he associate himself with a pastor who believes these things? Why does he attend this church instead of another less controversial, racist and hatefilled?

Folks, he is NOT what he says he is and he has his supporters bamboozled.

What he SAYS and what he has actually practiced (his criminal associates, his racist church, etc.) are VERY different things!; March 13, 2008 1:16 PM
NO Obama said...: Don't you generally attend a church because you believe in its tenents and sermons from its pastor?

Obama's pastor:

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=4443788&page=1

Quote:
Sen. Barack Obama's pastor says blacks should not sing "God Bless America" but "God damn America."; March 13, 2008 1:18 PM
NO Obama said...: No Wonder Michelle Obama Isn't Proud of America: Look At What Her Pastor Preaches

ABC News finally looks into exactly what goes on at Obama's church.

Read what Jeremiah Wright, Obama's pastor and spiritual advisor, has to say about America, going as far as to encourage his congregation to say, "G** Damn America!" instead of "G** Bless America!". This is the man who married Barack and Michelle Obama, baptized their daughters, and gave Obama the "Audacity of Hope" title for his last book.

Considering what Jeremiah Wright preaches, it's no wonder Michelle Obama says the things she says about being proud in America. The person Obama chose as his spirtual advisor says a lot about him.

The company a person keeps matters. Jeremiah Wright. Antoin "Big Tony' Rezko. Michelle Obama. That sure says a lot about the man Obama really is.; March 13, 2008 1:26 PM
NO Obama said...: Why doesn't Obama fire his pastor as he's requested Hillary do with Geraldine Ferraro?

Afterall he's made many racist statements and sermons.

Obama tries to justify his membership in this radical anti-American church by saying his pastor is like an old uncle who you don't ALWAYS agree with.

So, Obama, do you believe in him some of the time, a lot of the time? Even if it is only occasionally, that is very disturbing and if you disagree with him a little or a lot, WHY ARE YOU A MEMBER OF THIS CHURCH?
------------
From ABC News:

An ABC News review of dozens of Rev. Wright's sermons, offered for sale by the church, found repeated denunciations of the U.S. based on what he described as his reading of the Gospels and the treatment of black Americans.

"The government gives them the drugs, builds bigger prisons, passes a three-strike law and then wants us to sing 'God Bless America.' No, no, no, God damn America, that's in the Bible for killing innocent people," he said in a 2003 sermon. "God damn America for treating our citizens as less than human. God damn America for as long as she acts like she is God and she is supreme."

In addition to damning America, he told his congregation on the Sunday after Sept. 11, 2001 that the United States had brought on al Qaeda's attacks because of its own terrorism.; March 13, 2008 1:29 PM
NO Obama said...: Reason #5 to Support Hillary:
She initiated the Adoption and Safe Families Act.

Reason #6 to Support Hillary:
She's authored a great deal of legislation during her years on the Armed Services Committee that has passed regarding increased and improved benefits for our returning Iraq veterans.

Reason #7 to Support Hillary:
She was one of the key Senators who fought to give our military badly needed raises and increase in benefits. For being such flag wavers, it was the Republicans and Bush who resisted these attempts to show our military how much we value and appreciate them.

Reason #8 to Support Hillary:
Since 1974 she has been fighting for a woman's right to choose.

Reason #9 to Support Hillary:
She is fighting to lift the ban on stem cell research to cure devastating diseases.

Reason #10 to Support Hillary:
Voted YES on $100M to reduce teen pregnancy by education & contraceptives. (Mar 2005); March 13, 2008 1:30 PM
NO Obama said...: ABC News:

With the corruption trial of one of Sen. Barack Obama's longtime friends and supporters set to begin Monday in Chicago, Ill., reform watchdogs say it will reveal the "cesspool" of Illinois politics in which Obama came of age and has said little about in his campaign for president.

"We have a sick political culture," said Jay Stewart, the executive director of the Chicago Better Government Association, "and that's the environment that Barack Obama came from."

Stewart says he does not understand why Obama has lectured others about corruption in Washington and Kenya but "been noticeably silent on the issue of corruption here in his home state, including at this point, mostly Democratic politicians."

There was no immediate comment from the Obama campaign.; March 13, 2008 1:34 PM
NO Obama said...: TX Primary & Caucus:

The primary and the caucus were held in the same state, on the same day, with the same weather conditions, featuring the same 2 candidates.BUT 2 DIFFERENT OUTOMES! The primary resulted in a clear winner soon (Hillary) and the caucus appears to be for Obama as usual. Curious if all the states had closed primaries who would be the nominee. HILLARY

Caucuses keep blue collar workers and old people from voting. Obama's caucus wins cannot be extrapolated to the general election while the primary results can. As far as I know, there are NO caucuses in the general election. Why?

BECAUSE IT EXCLUDES CERTAIN GROUPS AND IT IS TIME CONSUMING.; March 13, 2008 1:42 PM
Independent Voter said...: As far as the "mail-in" revote in Florida....impossible. It won't happen. Why? Because it is against Florida State Law.

101.6102 Mail ballot elections; limitations

(2) The following elections may not be conducted by mail ballot:

(a) An election at which any candidate is nominated, elected, retained, or recalled; or

(b) An election held on the same date as another election, other than a mail ballot election, in which the qualified electors of that political subdivision are eligible to cast ballots.

SEE IT FOR YOUR SELF!! Isn't the internet a wonderful tool!

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?mode=View%20Statutes&SubMenu=1&App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=101.6102&URL=CH0101/Sec6102.HTM; March 13, 2008 1:46 PM
NO Obama said...: Let's see...

Obama, "That's my STORY and I'm stickin' to it!"

Obama must be an Ostrich with his head in the sand. Not good qualities for a president.

No, wait, maybe he really does know Rezko is scum but pretends not to.

No, wait, maybe he really is a lot like Rezko.

No, wait, maybe he is a con man and a liar!

From ABC News:

Obama's knowledge of the extent of the investigation of Rezko, now under federal indictment, is important because it raises questions about his judgment in approaching a man who was under federal investigation.

The Post reported that Obama said he "should have seen some red flags" Here is the full transcript of what Obama said to the Post, as provided by the Obama campaign:

Peter Slevin, Washington Post reporter: You must have been aware he was under investigation, no?

Barack Obama: Well, I'll be honest with you. I've known him for 20 years -- well, let me make sure I'm not exaggerating here, 1991, so, 15 years, I've known him for 15 years. He had never asked me to do anything, had never behaved in any untoward way with me. And, the, you know, I wasn't particularly knowledgeable about these various issues that he was involved with, but as I've said before, there's no doubt that I should have seen some red flags in terms of me purchasing a piece of property from him. Again, my focus was just making sure that the purchase itself met ethical guidelines, but there's no doubt that the optics of it I think – partly – well, no, I'll just stick to that, there's no doubt I should have been more attuned to it.
-----------

LOL! Obama must not read the newspapers or watch the news, kinda like GWB.

I know nothing! Ala Schultz on Hogan's heroes. Turn a deaf ear.; March 13, 2008 1:47 PM
Independent Voter said...: "TX Primary & Caucus:

The primary and the caucus were held in the same state, on the same day, with the same weather conditions, featuring the same 2 candidates.BUT 2 DIFFERENT OUTOMES! The primary resulted in a clear winner soon (Hillary) and the caucus appears to be for Obama as usual. Curious if all the states had closed primaries who would be the nominee. HILLARY"

There is ONE major FLAW in your reasoning here. Rush Limbaugh DID have an effect on the primary in Texas. Look at the numbers. They made up over 15% of those who voted in Texas and Bill Clinton was ON the Rush Limbaugh show the day before the election. Why is this important? First of all it is important because they have an open primary....fair is fair, HOWEVER the caucuses are ONLY open to Democrats! Therefore, if it were a closed primary or a Semi-open primary where Democrats and undeclared/independent voters could vote in the primary, there would have been a HUGE difference. The reason I say this is because Republicans voted 85% for Hillary. Under scrutiny your argument doesn't hold up.; March 13, 2008 1:55 PM
Bill UK said...: Latest Rasmussen poll in Pennsylvania:

Clinton drops 5 points to only a 13% lead!

Perhaps they object to being called idiots, etc., by Clinton supporters!

I wonder how much Time gets paid by the Clinton camp for swamping boards with bland propoganda? Mind you it might only be in Pizzas!; March 13, 2008 2:02 PM
Bill UK said...: Time has posted 17 out of the last 22 posts, somehow I wonder how he has time to got to other sites!

Talk about swamping the site.; March 13, 2008 2:07 PM
NO Obama said...: Did it ever occur to you guys that many cross over republicans miight be voting for Hillary who would also vote for her in the general election.

Yep, name calling is the best way to refute me.

Don't bother to debate or answer why Obama continues to be a member of a racist, radical church.

Just hide like Obama does.; March 13, 2008 2:09 PM
Siroco said...: Ten Reasons to vote for Barack Obama (in no particular order)
1. His demonstrated superior ability to manage his campaign indicates
he is more qualified to be President and manage the government.
2. His demonstrated superior ability to manage his campaign finances
indicates he is more qualified to be President and manage the
governments finances.
3. His demonstrated superior ability to staff his campaign with
competent people -- choosing on the basis of competence not personal
loyalty with competence ignored -- indicates he is more qualified to
be President and
staff the government.
4. His demonstrated superior ability to form a competent strategic
campaign plan indicates he is more qualified to be President and
form competent strategic plans for the government.
5. His demonstrated superior judgement shown for example in opposing
the Iraq War from the very beginning instead of voting for a bill
entitled "A Bill to Authorize the Use of United States Armed Forces
in Iraq".
6. His demonstrated superior compassion for the poor shown for
example in his (upon Graduating Cum Laude from Harvard Law) turning
down multiple job offers with SIX figure salaries to instead go to
work as a poorly paid Civil Rights
worker among the laid off steel workers on the South Side of Chicago.
7. His demonstrated superior industry and initiative as displayed by
his record of Bills authored in both the Illinois Legislature and the
U.S. Senate. [challenge me -- I'd LOVE an excuse to print each of
their Records here.]
8. Barack Obama is a uniter not a divider.
9. His demonstrated ability to awaken and draw in millions of new
small donors and volunteers to the Democratic Party.
10. His refusal to take money from lobbyists or hold "fund raisers"
for fat-cats.

This list could be longer but maybe you begin to see the point.....; March 13, 2008 2:10 PM
NO Obama said...: Rasmussen:

Overall, 44% believe Clinton will do better in the fall campaign against John McCain. Thirty-seven percent (37%) believe Obama will be the better general election candidate.; March 13, 2008 2:12 PM
NO Obama said...: Bill UK has left a new comment on the post "Open Thread":

Time has posted 17 out of the last 22 posts, somehow I wonder how he has time to got to other sites!

Talk about swamping the site.
---------------------------------

First I'm a she, not a he.

Also, I am perfectly capable of visting a few dozen blogs/sites each day.

I am writing my 2nd book and in between meeting milestones set for myself (ie when I finish a chapter or 2 or whatever my goal is for that day), I spend time researching blogs, links to things posted and talked about, etc.

Buth as Ronnie Reagan (who I voted for) would say, "There you go again talking about the person and not the issues."; March 13, 2008 2:16 PM
Siroco said...: time wrote:
No Wonder Michelle Obama Isn't Proud of America

the quote was: "For the first time in my adult life Im REALLY proud of American...."

Note: Adult life.
Note: REALLY proud ===> very proud, exceeding proud.

How can you tell when "Time" is mis-representing things? Answer: when he is keyboarding.

;); March 13, 2008 2:18 PM
Bill UK said...: Just for information purposes.

Let us assume that both andidates now get the same number of pledged delegates from the remaining 10 primaries*. Let us use this sites figures for existing pledged delegates**.

This means that the candidates need to pick up the following number of super delegates each to win the nomination.

Clinton needs to pick up 249
Obama needs to pick up only 144

Notes.
* Yes it is likely that Obama will win more delegates in the remaining contests but I alloted them the same to be fair to Clinton.
** Using this sites figures for number of pledged delegates gives Clinton an advantage as Obama has 6 extra delegates pledged from California whereas Clinton only ha 1 extra pledged delegate.; March 13, 2008 2:22 PM
NO Obama said...: 5. His demonstrated superior judgement shown for example in opposing
the Iraq War from the very beginning instead of voting for a bill
entitled "A Bill to Authorize the Use of United States Armed Forces
in Iraq".

uh, frstn, he wasn't in the Senate so he had no vote. Only rhetoric. He made that anti Iraq speech in IL to a group of liberal supporters.

It was an easy position to take as an outsider.

But even he has admitted he might have felt differently had he been in the senate, seen the intelligence and debated the issue with fellow congressional members.; March 13, 2008 2:23 PM
Siroco said...: "Time" wrote:
Curious if all the states had closed primaries who would be the nominee

In a closed Primary Barack Obama would have won Texas voting, Ohio voting. There are heavy Republican counties in Texas (almost total Bush in 2004) where McCain didnt get a single vote. On the other hand, HRC carried the same counties with a very large majority. "Limbaugh Republicans" also supplied HRCs winining margin in Ohio.

So the answer to your question "Time" is Barack Obama."; March 13, 2008 2:26 PM
dwit said...: Independent voter said...

"TX Primary & Caucus:

"The primary resulted in a clear winner soon "

A clear winner? The numbers I have from CNN show that Hillary barely eked out a win in Texas, 51% to Obama's 47%.

That is even with Rush's spoilers and the Latino vote.

And let's not forget that it is the Caucus voters that we can count on to vote FOR SURE!; March 13, 2008 2:27 PM
dwit said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; March 13, 2008 2:32 PM
Siroco said...: very nice sddave0. so the "mail-in" as just proposed by the FA Democratic Party bureaucrats is illegal in TWO ways. :)

But its Barack Obama who is slowing down a solution -- oh yeah, just ask Carie. ;); March 13, 2008 2:32 PM
Bill UK said...: Time, sorry for writing you are a man, so you are a woman, what difference does it make?

I notice by the way that you haven't commented on the fact that Clinton cannot now win the popular vote.

I also note that you haven't commented on the fact that a mail ballot is illegal under Florida law.

I also note you have not commented on the fact that Michigan is shown as tied in a redo.

What a waste of talent, you are so quick at typing or do you use voice recognition software?

Also would love to have the title of your first book, so if you could post it please it would be appreciated.; March 13, 2008 2:32 PM
dwit said...: And someone said the crossover Republicans might ACTUALLY vote for Hillary in a general. That is priceless!; March 13, 2008 2:33 PM
Siroco said...: "Time" wrote: lso, I am perfectly capable of visting a few dozen blogs/sites each day.

I am writing my 2nd book and in between meeting milestones set for myself (ie when I finish a chapter or 2 or whatever my goal is for that day), I spend time researching blogs, links to things posted and talked about, etc."

wonder what would happen if "Time" added thinking and reflection to that list of activities........; March 13, 2008 2:36 PM
NO Obama said...: Bill UK

I've already posted the title of my book--maybe 2 weeks or so ago.

I don't support a mail in ballot so the point is moot as far as I'm concerned and my argument is concerned.

I said we should amend the rules.

I will have to do some research on the supposed tie in MI on a re-do before commenting.; March 13, 2008 2:36 PM
dwit said...: Sorry indi. You gotta do a better job on attribution. I now realize you were responding to Time. My apologies! Your reply was spot on.; March 13, 2008 2:38 PM
NO Obama said...: frstan, thinking like you do???

NO THANKS!; March 13, 2008 2:40 PM
Siroco said...: HRC WAS in the SENATE. Her vote FOR the "Bill to Authorize Use of United States Armed Forces in Iraq" helped allow BUSH to enter in to this terrible, useless, unnecessary War, and took our focus off Afganistan where the real enemy lay.

And NO SPIN is going to change that. Carie I have some respect for. She is trying to get at the truth. You "Time" merely repeat what you dredge up, never notice youve been refuted but keep repeating the same trash again and again.; March 13, 2008 2:44 PM
Siroco said...: timeforchange has left a new comment on the post "Open Thread":

"frstan, thinking like you do???

NO THANKS! "

Comment: Priceless!!! :D; March 13, 2008 2:48 PM
NO Obama said...: frstan,

It isn't SPIN. It is fact!

I was against the war also but I cannot say how I might have voted had I seen and heard the debate amongst the congressional members.

Nevertheless, I don't hold it against those who voted "for" as if it's the be all and end all of my support for them.

There are many other positive factors about Hillary that override what might be something I disagree with her on.

Supporting on MULTIPLE factors is where I come from.; March 13, 2008 2:49 PM
NO Obama said...: Andrew Sullivan, major Hillary hater, supports Ferraro's argument:

http://www.freepowerboards.com/bjdillusions/viewtopic.php?p=57099&mforum=#57099; March 13, 2008 2:58 PM
Siroco said...: Subject: The Real Truth About Barack Obama!

As enthusiastic volunteers in the Barack Obama campaign for the Presidency, we have put together a list of facts about Barack so that you will know the truth about him. Please follow the links we have included for documentation of these facts. If you value the truth as we do, please spread this information via email, blog, or any other means, to everyone you know.

Did you know that Barack Obama is a Christian? He has been a member of the same United Church of Christ congregation for 20 years, and was married there to his wife Michelle in 1992. [1] [2] [3]
Did you know that Barack Obama often leads the US Senate in the Pledge of Allegiance? [4]
Did you know that Barack Obama is a strong friend of Israel and has spoken out strongly against anti-Semitism? [5] [6]
Did you know his grandparents from Kansas were part of the "Greatest Generation"? His grandfather served with Patton's Army during World War II, and his grandmother, a real "Rosy the Riveter", worked in a bomber assembly plant back home. [7] [8] [9]
Did you know that Barack Obama was opposed to the war in Iraq from day one, before we invaded, even while he was running for the Senate, and knowing his opposition might be politically unpopular? [10]
"I know that even a successful war against Iraq will require a U.S. occupation of undetermined length, at undetermined cost, with undetermined consequences. I know that an invasion of Iraq without a clear rationale and without strong international support will only fan the flames of the Middle East and encourage the worst, rather than best, impulses of the Arab world and strengthen the recruitment arm of al Qaeda. I am not opposed to all wars. I'm opposed to dumb wars." --Barack Obama, 2002

Did you know Obama favors transparency over secrecy in our government? Did you know that Obama worked with Republican Senator Tom Coburn to pass one of the strongest government transparency bills since the freedom of information act? He's calling it "Google for Government", and you can see the results at www.usaspending.gov . Sen. Obama has also released his own tax returns for public review. [11] [12] [13] [14]
Did you know that after graduating with honors from Harvard Law School, Barack practiced civil rights law and also taught Constitutional Law for 10 years at the University of Chicago, one of the nation's best law schools, where he was consistently rated by his students as one of their best instructors? Did you also know that he was the first African-American elected president of the prestigious Harvard Law Review? [15] [16]
Did you know that Barack Obama is an outspoken advocate for women's rights and has been a principled defender of the civil rights of women? [17] [18]
Did you know that despite the grueling schedule of running for President, Senator Obama remains a devoted family man, making time to do things like pick out a Christmas tree with his wife and two young daughters, or hurrying home to spend Valentine's Day with them? Did you know he hasn't missed a single parent-teacher conference while running for President? [19]
Did you know that Barack Obama has a stellar environmental record, including having the highest rating from the League of Conservation Voters (96%) of any Presidential candidate, Democrat or Republican? [20]
Did you know that Barack Obama has been an elected legislator longer than Senator Clinton? [21]
Did you know that Barack is a member of all of these Senate Committees: Foreign Relations; Veteran's Affairs; Health, Education, Labor & Pensions; Homeland Security and Government Affairs?
Did you know that Senator Obama has sponsored or co-sponsored 15 bills that have become law, and has introduced amendments to 50 bills, of which 16 were adopted since he joined the Senate in 2005?
Did you know that Senator Obama sponsored legislation working together with Indiana Republican Senator Richard Lugar, to keep Americans safe by keeping dangerous weapons out of terrorist hands? The two senators also visited the former Soviet Union to inspect the decommissioning of nuclear weapons. Sen. Lugar said of Sen. Obama, "He does have a sense of idealism and principled leadership, a vision of the future." [22] [23]
Did you know that Barack Obama is the only candidate running for president who voted against using cluster bombs in Iraq and the only candidate who supports banning the use of landmines?
Did you know that, as an Illinois state senator, Barack Obama succeeded in passing legislation requiring the videotaping of police interrogations, gaining the respect and support not only of fellow legislators but that of the police, who had initially opposed the legislation?
Did you know that Theodore Roosevelt, Grover Cleveland, Ulysses S. Grant, John F. Kennedy, and Bill Clinton were all younger when they took office than Barack Obama will be?
During election season many emails are circulated about the candidates. Some are true, some aren't. It's often difficult to determine the truth. We encourage you to visit the following non-partisan sites that do a good job of fact checking the candidates.

http://www.snopes.com/
http://www.factcheck.org/

References:
[1] "http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2008/januaryweb-only/104-32.0.html?start=1"
[2] "http://www.ucc.org/about-us/"
[3] "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michelle_Obama"
[4] "http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=svo9mutE6TM"
[5] "http://www.jewishledger.com/articles/2008/03/12/opinions/edit03.txt"
[6] "http://www.observer.com/2008/obama-addresses-homophobia-anti-semitism-and-xenophobia-among-black-am ericans"
[7] "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greatest_Generation"
[8] "http://www.barackobama.com/learn/meet.php"
[9] "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosie_the_Riveter"
[10] "http://www.barackobama.com/2002/10/02/remarks_of_illinois_state_sen.php"
[11] "http://obama.senate.gov/press/060908-senate_passes_c/"
[12] "http://www.usaspending.gov/"
[13] "http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/politics/chi-070416obama-tax,0,445005.story"
[14] "http://taxprof.typepad.com/taxprof_blog/2007/04/baracj_obamas_2.html"
[15] "http://www.suntimes.com/news/politics/obama/701490,CST-NWS-obamaprof18.article"
[16] "http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles/2007/01/28/at_harvard_law_a_unifying_voice/"
[17] "http://obama.senate.gov/speech/051110-remarks_of_sena_1/"
[18] "http://www.womenforbarackobama.com/Obama_s_Record.html"
[19] "http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080301/ap_on_el_pr/obama_daughters_4"
[20] "http://presidentialprofiles2008.org/voterguide/obama-page.html"
[21] "http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/01/03/AR2008010303303.html"
[22] "http://obama.senate.gov/press/061211-lugar-obama_bil_1/"
[23] "http://www.berkshireeagle.com/ci_8434360"; March 13, 2008 3:02 PM
Siroco said...: Subject: The Real Truth About Barack Obama!

As enthusiastic volunteers in the Barack Obama campaign for the Presidency, we have put together a list of facts about Barack so that you will know the truth about him. Please follow the links we have included for documentation of these facts. If you value the truth as we do, please spread this information via email, blog, or any other means, to everyone you know.

Did you know that Barack Obama is a Christian? He has been a member of the same United Church of Christ congregation for 20 years, and was married there to his wife Michelle in 1992. [1] [2] [3]
Did you know that Barack Obama often leads the US Senate in the Pledge of Allegiance? [4]
Did you know that Barack Obama is a strong friend of Israel and has spoken out strongly against anti-Semitism? [5] [6]
Did you know his grandparents from Kansas were part of the "Greatest Generation"? His grandfather served with Patton's Army during World War II, and his grandmother, a real "Rosy the Riveter", worked in a bomber assembly plant back home. [7] [8] [9]
Did you know that Barack Obama was opposed to the war in Iraq from day one, before we invaded, even while he was running for the Senate, and knowing his opposition might be politically unpopular? [10]
"I know that even a successful war against Iraq will require a U.S. occupation of undetermined length, at undetermined cost, with undetermined consequences. I know that an invasion of Iraq without a clear rationale and without strong international support will only fan the flames of the Middle East and encourage the worst, rather than best, impulses of the Arab world and strengthen the recruitment arm of al Qaeda. I am not opposed to all wars. I'm opposed to dumb wars." --Barack Obama, 2002

Did you know Obama favors transparency over secrecy in our government? Did you know that Obama worked with Republican Senator Tom Coburn to pass one of the strongest government transparency bills since the freedom of information act? He's calling it "Google for Government", and you can see the results at www.usaspending.gov . Sen. Obama has also released his own tax returns for public review. [11] [12] [13] [14]
Did you know that after graduating with honors from Harvard Law School, Barack practiced civil rights law and also taught Constitutional Law for 10 years at the University of Chicago, one of the nation's best law schools, where he was consistently rated by his students as one of their best instructors? Did you also know that he was the first African-American elected president of the prestigious Harvard Law Review? [15] [16]
Did you know that Barack Obama is an outspoken advocate for women's rights and has been a principled defender of the civil rights of women? [17] [18]
Did you know that despite the grueling schedule of running for President, Senator Obama remains a devoted family man, making time to do things like pick out a Christmas tree with his wife and two young daughters, or hurrying home to spend Valentine's Day with them? Did you know he hasn't missed a single parent-teacher conference while running for President? [19]
Did you know that Barack Obama has a stellar environmental record, including having the highest rating from the League of Conservation Voters (96%) of any Presidential candidate, Democrat or Republican? [20]
Did you know that Barack Obama has been an elected legislator longer than Senator Clinton? [21]
Did you know that Barack is a member of all of these Senate Committees: Foreign Relations; Veteran's Affairs; Health, Education, Labor & Pensions; Homeland Security and Government Affairs?
Did you know that Senator Obama has sponsored or co-sponsored 15 bills that have become law, and has introduced amendments to 50 bills, of which 16 were adopted since he joined the Senate in 2005?
Did you know that Senator Obama sponsored legislation working together with Indiana Republican Senator Richard Lugar, to keep Americans safe by keeping dangerous weapons out of terrorist hands? The two senators also visited the former Soviet Union to inspect the decommissioning of nuclear weapons. Sen. Lugar said of Sen. Obama, "He does have a sense of idealism and principled leadership, a vision of the future." [22] [23]
Did you know that Barack Obama is the only candidate running for president who voted against using cluster bombs in Iraq and the only candidate who supports banning the use of landmines?
Did you know that, as an Illinois state senator, Barack Obama succeeded in passing legislation requiring the videotaping of police interrogations, gaining the respect and support not only of fellow legislators but that of the police, who had initially opposed the legislation?
Did you know that Theodore Roosevelt, Grover Cleveland, Ulysses S. Grant, John F. Kennedy, and Bill Clinton were all younger when they took office than Barack Obama will be?
During election season many emails are circulated about the candidates. Some are true, some aren't. It's often difficult to determine the truth. We encourage you to visit the following non-partisan sites that do a good job of fact checking the candidates.

http://www.snopes.com/
http://www.factcheck.org/

References:
[1] "http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2008/januaryweb-only/104-32.0.html?start=1"
[2] "http://www.ucc.org/about-us/"
[3] "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michelle_Obama"
[4] "http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=svo9mutE6TM"
[5] "http://www.jewishledger.com/articles/2008/03/12/opinions/edit03.txt"
[6] "http://www.observer.com/2008/obama-addresses-homophobia-anti-semitism-and-xenophobia-among-black-am ericans"
[7] "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greatest_Generation"
[8] "http://www.barackobama.com/learn/meet.php"
[9] "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosie_the_Riveter"
[10] "http://www.barackobama.com/2002/10/02/remarks_of_illinois_state_sen.php"
[11] "http://obama.senate.gov/press/060908-senate_passes_c/"
[12] "http://www.usaspending.gov/"
[13] "http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/politics/chi-070416obama-tax,0,445005.story"
[14] "http://taxprof.typepad.com/taxprof_blog/2007/04/baracj_obamas_2.html"
[15] "http://www.suntimes.com/news/politics/obama/701490,CST-NWS-obamaprof18.article"
[16] "http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles/2007/01/28/at_harvard_law_a_unifying_voice/"
[17] "http://obama.senate.gov/speech/051110-remarks_of_sena_1/"
[18] "http://www.womenforbarackobama.com/Obama_s_Record.html"
[19] "http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080301/ap_on_el_pr/obama_daughters_4"
[20] "http://presidentialprofiles2008.org/voterguide/obama-page.html"
[21] "http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/01/03/AR2008010303303.html"
[22] "http://obama.senate.gov/press/061211-lugar-obama_bil_1/"
[23] "http://www.berkshireeagle.com/ci_8434360"; March 13, 2008 3:03 PM
Siroco said...: Subject: The Real Truth About Barack Obama!

As enthusiastic volunteers in the Barack Obama campaign for the Presidency, we have put together a list of facts about Barack so that you will know the truth about him. Please follow the links we have included for documentation of these facts. If you value the truth as we do, please spread this information via email, blog, or any other means, to everyone you know.

Did you know that Barack Obama is a Christian? He has been a member of the same United Church of Christ congregation for 20 years, and was married there to his wife Michelle in 1992. [1] [2] [3]
Did you know that Barack Obama often leads the US Senate in the Pledge of Allegiance? [4]
Did you know that Barack Obama is a strong friend of Israel and has spoken out strongly against anti-Semitism? [5] [6]
Did you know his grandparents from Kansas were part of the "Greatest Generation"? His grandfather served with Patton's Army during World War II, and his grandmother, a real "Rosy the Riveter", worked in a bomber assembly plant back home. [7] [8] [9]
Did you know that Barack Obama was opposed to the war in Iraq from day one, before we invaded, even while he was running for the Senate, and knowing his opposition might be politically unpopular? [10]
"I know that even a successful war against Iraq will require a U.S. occupation of undetermined length, at undetermined cost, with undetermined consequences. I know that an invasion of Iraq without a clear rationale and without strong international support will only fan the flames of the Middle East and encourage the worst, rather than best, impulses of the Arab world and strengthen the recruitment arm of al Qaeda. I am not opposed to all wars. I'm opposed to dumb wars." --Barack Obama, 2002

Did you know Obama favors transparency over secrecy in our government? Did you know that Obama worked with Republican Senator Tom Coburn to pass one of the strongest government transparency bills since the freedom of information act? He's calling it "Google for Government", and you can see the results at www.usaspending.gov . Sen. Obama has also released his own tax returns for public review. [11] [12] [13] [14]
Did you know that after graduating with honors from Harvard Law School, Barack practiced civil rights law and also taught Constitutional Law for 10 years at the University of Chicago, one of the nation's best law schools, where he was consistently rated by his students as one of their best instructors? Did you also know that he was the first African-American elected president of the prestigious Harvard Law Review? [15] [16]
Did you know that Barack Obama is an outspoken advocate for women's rights and has been a principled defender of the civil rights of women? [17] [18]
Did you know that despite the grueling schedule of running for President, Senator Obama remains a devoted family man, making time to do things like pick out a Christmas tree with his wife and two young daughters, or hurrying home to spend Valentine's Day with them? Did you know he hasn't missed a single parent-teacher conference while running for President? [19]
Did you know that Barack Obama has a stellar environmental record, including having the highest rating from the League of Conservation Voters (96%) of any Presidential candidate, Democrat or Republican? [20]
Did you know that Barack Obama has been an elected legislator longer than Senator Clinton? [21]
Did you know that Barack is a member of all of these Senate Committees: Foreign Relations; Veteran's Affairs; Health, Education, Labor & Pensions; Homeland Security and Government Affairs?
Did you know that Senator Obama has sponsored or co-sponsored 15 bills that have become law, and has introduced amendments to 50 bills, of which 16 were adopted since he joined the Senate in 2005?
Did you know that Senator Obama sponsored legislation working together with Indiana Republican Senator Richard Lugar, to keep Americans safe by keeping dangerous weapons out of terrorist hands? The two senators also visited the former Soviet Union to inspect the decommissioning of nuclear weapons. Sen. Lugar said of Sen. Obama, "He does have a sense of idealism and principled leadership, a vision of the future." [22] [23]
Did you know that Barack Obama is the only candidate running for president who voted against using cluster bombs in Iraq and the only candidate who supports banning the use of landmines?
Did you know that, as an Illinois state senator, Barack Obama succeeded in passing legislation requiring the videotaping of police interrogations, gaining the respect and support not only of fellow legislators but that of the police, who had initially opposed the legislation?
Did you know that Theodore Roosevelt, Grover Cleveland, Ulysses S. Grant, John F. Kennedy, and Bill Clinton were all younger when they took office than Barack Obama will be?
During election season many emails are circulated about the candidates. Some are true, some aren't. It's often difficult to determine the truth. We encourage you to visit the following non-partisan sites that do a good job of fact checking the candidates.

http://www.snopes.com/
http://www.factcheck.org/

References:
[1] "http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2008/januaryweb-only/104-32.0.html?start=1"
[2] "http://www.ucc.org/about-us/"
[3] "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michelle_Obama"
[4] "http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=svo9mutE6TM"
[5] "http://www.jewishledger.com/articles/2008/03/12/opinions/edit03.txt"
[6] "http://www.observer.com/2008/obama-addresses-homophobia-anti-semitism-and-xenophobia-among-black-am ericans"
[7] "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greatest_Generation"
[8] "http://www.barackobama.com/learn/meet.php"
[9] "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosie_the_Riveter"
[10] "http://www.barackobama.com/2002/10/02/remarks_of_illinois_state_sen.php"
[11] "http://obama.senate.gov/press/060908-senate_passes_c/"
[12] "http://www.usaspending.gov/"
[13] "http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/politics/chi-070416obama-tax,0,445005.story"
[14] "http://taxprof.typepad.com/taxprof_blog/2007/04/baracj_obamas_2.html"
[15] "http://www.suntimes.com/news/politics/obama/701490,CST-NWS-obamaprof18.article"
[16] "http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles/2007/01/28/at_harvard_law_a_unifying_voice/"
[17] "http://obama.senate.gov/speech/051110-remarks_of_sena_1/"
[18] "http://www.womenforbarackobama.com/Obama_s_Record.html"
[19] "http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080301/ap_on_el_pr/obama_daughters_4"
[20] "http://presidentialprofiles2008.org/voterguide/obama-page.html"
[21] "http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/01/03/AR2008010303303.html"
[22] "http://obama.senate.gov/press/061211-lugar-obama_bil_1/"
[23] "http://www.berkshireeagle.com/ci_8434360"; March 13, 2008 3:03 PM
Siroco said...: drat! it did NOT give me the response "You post has been saved.." [or whatever]

did not mean to post it 3 times. sorry folks; March 13, 2008 3:06 PM
hank said...: frstan,

Don't freak out. It only makes you look as dumb as anonnyrepublican and timeforthesame.

There is no way these people can believe what they say. They've got to be Rushies.; March 13, 2008 3:10 PM
Siroco said...: Hank
thanks for that :); March 13, 2008 3:13 PM
NO Obama said...: For the record, I dispise Rush Limbaugh. Only listen to him if he pops up on a news segment in the news.

Obama doesn't plan to implement his campaing strategy/promises on withdrawal from Iraq so that leaves him the HUGE void where he can claim looking at it from the inside (should he be president), I now realize I cannot withdraw precipitously or in large numbers quickly (per the joint cheif's recommendations).

What a joke Obama is!

Politico.com

From his former advisor:

Power on Obama's Iraq plan: "best case scenario"

For all the chatter about Obama adviser Samantha Power's calling Clinton a "monster," another set of remarks made on her book tour in the United Kingdom may be equally threatening to the Obama campaign: Comments in a BBC interview that express a lack of confidence that Obama will be able to carry through his plan to withdraw troops from Iraq within 16 months.

"He will, of course, not rely on some plan that he’s crafted as a presidential candidate or a U.S. Senator," she said at one point in the interview.; March 13, 2008 3:20 PM
NO Obama said...: This fits Obama to a T:

DIAGNOSITIC CRITERIA for NARCISSISTIC PERSONALITY DISORDER
(as per the Diagnostic & Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders)

A pervasive pattern of grandiosity (in fantasy or behavior), need for admiration, and lack of empathy, beginning by early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts, as indicated by five (or more) of the following:

1) has a grandiose sense of self-importance (e.g., exaggerates achievements and talents, expects to be recognized as superior without commensurate achievements)

2) is preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love

3) believes that he or she is "special" and unique and can only be understood by, or should associate with, other special or high-status people (or institutions)

4) requires excessive admiration

5) has a sense of entitlement, i.e., unreasonable expectations of especially favorable treatment or automatic compliance with his or her expectations

6) is interpersonally exploitative, i.e., takes advantage of others to achieve his or her own ends

7) lacks empathy: is unwilling to recognize or identify with the feelings and needs of others

8) is often envious of others or believes that others are envious of him or her

9) shows arrogant, haughty behaviors or attitudes

Do you see the similarities??!!

-------------------------------

SOME OTHER NPD INFO RESOURCES

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/nar...sorder/DS00652

http://samvak.tripod.com/npdglance.html

http://www.mentalhealth.com/dis/p20-pe07.html

http://www.mentalhealth.com/dis1/p21-pe07.html; March 13, 2008 3:31 PM
Siroco said...: "Timeformoreofthesame" wrote:
For the record, I dispise Rush Limbaugh

But I dont understand: Russ luvvvvvvvvvvvs your candidate.

;); March 13, 2008 3:40 PM
Bill UK said...: Time,

Just to think everyone thought you were just some poor idiot earning money on the side posting for Clinton!

None of us realised you had a medical degree and you specialized in psychiatry.

Business must be bad for you to spend so much time on here.; March 13, 2008 3:42 PM
NO Obama said...: LOL, this post is a PERFECT example of how you Obama supporters have your facts about him and others (in this case me) all wrong:

Bill UK has left a new comment on the post "Open Thread":

Time,

Just to think everyone thought you were just some poor idiot earning money on the side posting for Clinton!

None of us realised you had a medical degree and you specialized in psychiatry.

I don't have a medical degree and I don't "specialize in psychiatry"

Business must be bad for you to spend so much time on here.

This is a fine example of your facts not being correct and your jumping to wrong conclusions about things so your posts about Obama should be taken in the same vein!

LOL! What tripe!; March 13, 2008 3:46 PM
Bill UK said...: Time you are the one who posted trying to indicate that a peson had a psychiatric personality disorder!

To do such would imply that you are a professional in the field. You did not state in your post you are not, therefore no disclaimer!

But we already gathered that anyway. My post was absolute total sarcasm, as everyone else realised except you of course!; March 13, 2008 3:50 PM
Bill UK said...: Time,

interesting, you made comment that you are not a doctor, but you didn't deny that you are a paid spammer for Clinton!

Now that is very interesting.; March 13, 2008 3:55 PM
dwit said...: Time said...
"I just happen to think Obama is TOO liberal and also unknown."

"He is also divisive. Look at the stuff that goes on here to prove that."

"He's never said anything conciliatory or nice to or about Hillary."

Point 1: Too liberal? By that do you mean a REAL Democrat?

Point 2: He is divisive? How many times has he referred to Senator Clinton's gender as being her only attribute worth noting in this race?

Point 3: He may not have said much in the way of praise for her policies, but he has never attacked her personally. In fact, when Ms. Power made her "monster" comment he fired her. There was no magnanimous letter paraded in front of the press from her.

Face it, all of the divisiveness has come from the Clinton camp as was tacitly conceded in Senator Clinton's apology to the African American community today.

How has she let it come to this? What does this say about her leadership skills that she can't control herself, let alone her staff?

To think I supported her at one time too. I am so glad we have had the opportunity to vet both of these candidates a little more.; March 13, 2008 4:09 PM
Bill UK said...: Time,

Still no denial that you are a paid spammer for the Clinton camp after 37 minutes!; March 13, 2008 4:33 PM
NO Obama said...: Dear Bill,

I was knocked off line (wireless connection goes down every so often).

Dialup was working very slowly and not pulling up web pages.

I finally got my wireless connection back and the funk posting/sign-in/sign up process for this forum wasn't cooperating.

Anyway, I shouldn't have to deny such ludicrous accusations but I will. I AM NOT A PAID SPAMMER OR ANY TYPE SPAMMER FOR THE HILLARY CLINTON CAMPAIGN.

ARE YOU A PAID SPAMMER FOR OBAMA?; March 13, 2008 4:43 PM
Carrie said...: so, this morning I was listening to a piece on the situation in MI/FL on MiPR and I had to pull the car over and throw up. Seriously - I barfed.

Turns out I now have double the reason to work hard for Hillary!

(if you're not sure where I'm going with this, I'll just say congratulate me -- time, I think you'll get it)

Anyway, I need to lighten up here a bit...; March 13, 2008 10:20 PM
Independent Voter said...: Wow Carrie, so much for your desire to keep a respectful dialogue. What happened to you? Maybe YOUR true colors are finally showing!

And you were listening to the whole MI/FL thing and you had to barf? WTF kinda BULLSHIT is that?

If you are willing to share the entire story as to why you feel this way you might want to STFU instead. Because your statement was nothing but pure STUPIDITY!; March 13, 2008 11:23 PM
dwit said...: indi,

Am I just not getting your sarcasm? She's knocked-up!; March 13, 2008 11:56 PM
NO Obama said...: By Kenneth E. Lamb

Sen. Obama's autobiography is filled with "composite" characters, rearranged timelines, and fantasy events that never occurred. I read that twice in the Washington Post - read Richard Cohen's columns of Jan. 1, 2008, and March 27, 2007, for yourself.

Obama's fictional book.

Oprah endorsed it and him just like she foolishly endorsed the author last year who likewise made up a story about himself.

And if I were running for president, I'd pay particular attention to the truth -- to the nagging facts that sometimes get in the way of a good fabricated story.; March 14, 2008 12:08 AM
NO Obama said...: Bill, it's been HOURS and you still haven't denied being a paid spammer for Obama.; March 14, 2008 12:08 AM
NO Obama said...: Federal law requires that to claim a minority status, you must be at least 1/8 of the descriptor, but for the sake of this article, I've converted it to a decimal fraction for easier comprehension. You must be at least 12.5% of the racial component you claim for minority status. Mr. Obama, claiming to be African-American, is half the legal threshold.

So, Obama is not legally African-American. It is impossible for him to be, in truth, America's first African-American president.

Yet claiming to be African-American is the soul and substance of his claim to fame. It is what he has used throughout his adult life to distinguish himself from other competitors.

It is the ethnic identity he proclaims, and it is the ethnic identity he craves. Without it, he is just another mixed race Caucasian Arab with an African influence playing on his skin’s pigmentation.; March 14, 2008 12:17 AM
NO Obama said...: Need proof? Research the Kenyan records for yourself. You will find that his father was officially classified as "Arab African" by the Kenyan government.; March 14, 2008 12:21 AM
Independent Voter said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; March 14, 2008 1:03 AM
Independent Voter said...: Hey dwit, no you didn't miss the sarcasm, I truly didn't understand what she was saying. I thought she was talking about the MI/FL story is what made her sick.....sorry Carrie.....my bad.....congrats if it is that you are pregnant.

LOL.....I am suffering from foot in mouth disease tonight! LOL; March 14, 2008 1:04 AM
Siroco said...: Please dont feed the spambot folks.

Spam can be defined many ways. Using hi-multiple posts where one would do is typical spambot behavior.; March 14, 2008 1:10 AM
NO Obama said...: frstan

Good! Ignore the facts and just duck and dodge the truth.

No wonder you support Oblahma!; March 14, 2008 1:15 AM
Independent Voter said...: frstan - I have a feeling that time is a lesbian in love with Hillary. It is the ONLY thing that makes sense. Either that or she is an absolute man hater. She never even had ONE thought of EVER voting for Obama. All she tries to do is discredit him, she WON'T look at his plans or ideas. She HATES anyone who isn't the same color as her and she especially hates when someone points out Hillary's faults and refuses to address Clinton's faults. Woo hoo she wrote a book....big f'in deal. ANYONE can write a book. Go to any bookstore and Obama's book are all sold out while Hillary's are on the clearance rack...SERIOUS! So instead of looking at spammers on here, I simply collapse the comments and overlook anon.ny.dem and timeforchange (especially since tfc only wants MORE OF THE SAME); March 14, 2008 1:23 AM
NO Obama said...: LOL If you guys would spend as much time analyzing Obama based on the facts and truth, you'd see him for what he really is--a fraud.

I'm not a lesbian or man hater but what is wrong with being a lesbian?

Are you anti gay like Obama is?; March 14, 2008 1:26 AM
Siroco said...: Hillary Clinton had no direct role in bringing peace to Northern Ireland and is a "wee bit silly" for exaggerating the part she played, according to Lord Trimble of Lisnagarvey, the Nobel Peace Prize winner and former First Minister of the province.

Full coverage of the US Elections 2008
David Trimble: Hillary Clinton mere "cheerleader" in Ireland

Hillary Clinton with the Rev Ian Paisley and Martin McGuinness after their meeting in Washington last year
"I don’t know there was much she did apart from accompanying Bill [Clinton] going around," he said. Her recent statements about being deeply involved were merely "the sort of thing people put in their canvassing leaflets" during elections. "She visited when things were happening, saw what was going on, she can certainly say it was part of her experience. I don’t want to rain on the thing for her but being a cheerleader for something is slightly different from being a principal player."

long article. read it for yourself here:http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2008/03/08/wuspols108.xml; March 14, 2008 1:47 AM
dwit said...: never thought I'd get bored with sniping, but I've crossed the threshold. Check back later...much later.; March 14, 2008 1:59 AM
Anonymous said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; March 14, 2008 2:13 AM
NO Obama said...: Don't confuse the message with the messenger.

Obama's message is a powerful one and any good public speaker could deliver it well.

But the messenger (Obama) is deeply flawed.

He had to invent himself in his books and speeches to be what he really is not but wants people to be.

Don't be fooled!; March 14, 2008 3:30 AM
protactinium said...: Carrie congrat if you are pregnant. If not I am sorry for you, because your choice is going to be for Mccain or Obama. Sorry you will lose your lunch during your vote. Hillary can make no arguement for her election. Honstly.

As for Time she is obviously an old fashion femanists. She operate only on fear, and sexism. The only good canidite in her eye is a women, and she will never be able to see pass that. She hate men for having penis. She has made comment before about all men can think is with there penis, and women would be better. A MAN HATER would seem operate. Time guess what though. For your 1 femanist vote. It only takes 1 new black voter to make you not count. And not only are there 1 new black voter, or 1 new young voter to cancel your vote out. Its America 1 person = 1 vote. No matter how much you hate that all these "blacks" are voting for him 90-10. :-)

Also all the femanist have done is replaced the word "man" with "black".
IE. Obama is only where he is because he is black. They also attempting the same hate anti-men victim tatics to win.

However Time is sulking because all those decades of femanist movement is being rejected by the base of the democratic party, and America. America is looking for a transendaning canidite. Time your way of thinking is becomming a relic. You sad tatics are useless.

Anon - Hillary appolgized today for using racial tatics. This preety much acknowledges it was her campaign doing this, and that she was sorry for it.; March 14, 2008 3:48 AM
protactinium said...: As for Michigan. Hillary seriously is saying they are fair as is? Are you jokeing me?

I hope she keeps publicly saying this. So the whole nation can look at her and relize she really is trying to steal this election.

80% of America agrees Michigan has to be redone or not count.

This is very good for Obama for Hillary to be pushing MI so hard. It will hurt her trust issues again.; March 14, 2008 3:50 AM
NO Obama said...: Guys, I know it is difficult to absorb the facts about Obama and it's easier to try to discredit the messenger but since that is all you care to do, I just keep posting facts about Obama and have little desire to debate you and your dumb analysis of me (who is not the point of this blog--neither are you--Obama is!)

Either debate the issues and quit with your way off base analysis of me or I will just ignore you.

Get back on topic (such as it is with you).; March 14, 2008 3:58 AM
protactinium said...: Saying Obama is linked to Sadam, and terroists. That Obama is a Muslim terroist is not the facts.

You are just a hate monger.

I am just glad my canidite is holding his key demographic 90-10, while Hillary is only taking her key demographic 60-40.

Also I found out Clinton won his presidency he lost the White vote both times.; March 14, 2008 4:14 AM
protactinium said...: PS. Hillary supporters. Hillary is just tooting her own horn, and yours. The election is over!

It is impossible for Hillary to catch up in delegates, states, or popular vote. The democratic will not kill there party by rejecting the popular vote.; March 14, 2008 4:17 AM
NO Obama said...: I never said Obama was a Muslim.

I did say that he is not an Afircan American legally, is 50% white and much less % black.

However he has associated himself with terrorists (Ayers) and another guy who had direct ties to Saddam Hussein.

That connection is not what concerns me but just the poor character and questionable ties to possible terrorism himself (Achi).

I don't think Obama himself is a terrorist but the fact that he associates with those who are is disturbing and a question of poor judgment on her part.; March 14, 2008 4:18 AM
NO Obama said...: Well if the election is over, then bye bye Obama.

He won't be able to survive the Republican swiftboard machine.; March 14, 2008 4:21 AM
protactinium said...: Want to talk about working with shady charecters?

Hear is the ABC of Clinton Scandles. There are that many.

https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=18747118&postID=3229831814451809023

Let me highlight in case you have forgotten.

White Water, Cattle "trading", "disappearing" records, Millions from Libary donors who are under investigation, Ties with many many known felons. The repleacement of real white house officals with Clinton Cronies.

"I don't think Obama himself is a terrorist but the fact that he associates with those who are is disturbing and a question of poor judgment on her part."

So either you have not done research, lieing about your issues, or a Hippocrit.

I also think you said "HER" because deep down you know your describing Hillary.; March 14, 2008 4:27 AM
NO Obama said...: All that bunk about Hillary has been disproven but her detractors still hang onto it all.

Obama is still embroiled with all these people and is still of questionable character and intent because of it.

Also, his inventing himself and creating a fictionalized version in his books and speeches is very disturbing to many people, including me.

I don't vote for the important office of the president on "faith" or by ignoring the facts because I'm enthralled with the candidate and his gloroious rhetoric.; March 14, 2008 4:32 AM
NO Obama said...: PS Have you noticed when Hilary works the crowds, she stops and listens, makes eye contact, makes a brief comment, etc.?

Obama rarely makes eye contact and seems very detached when shaking hands and working the crowds.; March 14, 2008 4:33 AM
protactinium said...: Why say good by to Obama? This is one of the best polls I have seen. It is done by survery USA.

http://www.mydd.com/story/2008/3/6/14377/48948

Its show Obama, and Clinton both winning. However Obama wins by a few more votes.

However if you look, Hillary is Banking on some big states that have broke for the republicans recently. While Obama is to take alot more of the more rural areas, and eating right in to the Regan Republicans.

Clintons stratgy that the republicans have been fighting against for the last 16 years, winning the last 8. The repug machine has Clintons number.

While Obama with his enormous amout of cash will attack republicans in state that were seen as "Red" states. Forcing a repug machine that has not moblized for nation election in decades will be slow to react. Mccain will not be able to fight the multi front war Obama can bring to this election with his enormous amount of fundraising, and appeal to a Rural republican crowd, as well as Librals.

A transcending canidite indeed.; March 14, 2008 4:48 AM
protactinium said...: How was the Clinton cleared?
You mean all those document Hillary refuses to release?
Such as what she did in the white house. Or the list of Libary donors. The Libary Donor scandle is ongoing now. She was not cleared of it.

Or what about all the people convited around the clintons?

http://gatewaypundit.blogspot.com/2007/08/wanted-major-hillary-campaign.html

* Number close to the Clinton machine who have been convicted of or pleaded guilty to crimes: 44
* Number of convictions during his administration: 33
* Number of indictments/misdemeanor charges: 61
* Number of imprisonments: 14
* Number of presidential impeachments: 1
* Number of independent counsel investigations: 7
* Number of congressional witnesses pleading the 5th Amendment: 72
* Number of witnesses fleeing the country to avoid testifying: 17
* Number of foreign witnesses who have declined interviews by investigative bodies: 19; March 14, 2008 4:56 AM
protactinium said...: Here is another shady Donor. A wanted FELON who has been convicted, and is wanted!

For the last 15 years, California authorities have been trying to figure out what happened to a businessman named Norman Hsu, who pleaded no contest to grand theft, agreed to serve up to three years in prison and then seemed to vanish.
"He is a fugitive," Ronald Smetana, who handled the case for the state attorney general, said in an interview. "Do you know where he is?"

Hsu, it seems, has been hiding in plain sight, at least for the last three years.

Since 2004, one Norman Hsu has been carving out a prominent place of honor among Democratic fundraisers. He has funneled hundreds of thousands of dollars in campaign contributions into party coffers, much of it earmarked for presidential hopeful Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton of New York.

In addition to making his own contributions, Hsu has honed the practice of assembling packets of checks from contributors who bear little resemblance to the usual Democratic deep pockets: A self-described apparel executive with a variety of business interests, Hsu has focused on delivering hefty contributions from citizens who live modest lives and are neophytes in the world of campaign giving.; March 14, 2008 4:56 AM
protactinium said...: Another questionable donor.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB118826947048110677.html?mod=hpp_us_whats_news

DALY CITY, Calif. -- One of the biggest sources of political donations to Hillary Rodham Clinton is a tiny, lime-green bungalow that lies under the flight path from San Francisco International Airport.
Six members of the Paw family, each listing the house at 41 Shelbourne Ave. as their residence, have donated a combined $45,000 to the Democratic senator from New York since 2005, for her presidential campaign, her Senate re-election last year and her political action committee. In all, the six Paws have donated a total of $200,000 to Democratic candidates since 2005, election records show.

That total ranks the house with residences in Greenwich, Conn., and Manhattan's Upper East Side among the top addresses to donate to the Democratic presidential front-runner over the past two years, according to an analysis by The Wall Street Journal of donations listed with the Federal Election Commission.

It isn't obvious how the Paw family is able to afford such political largess. Records show they own a gift shop and live in a 1,280-square-foot house that they recently refinanced for $270,000. William Paw, the 64-year-old head of the household, is a mail carrier with the U.S. Postal Service who earns about $49,000 a year, according to a union representative. Alice Paw, also 64, is a homemaker. The couple's grown children have jobs ranging from account manager at a software company to "attendance liaison" at a local public high school. One is listed on campaign records as an executive at a mutual fund.

The Paws' political donations closely track donations made by Norman Hsu, a wealthy New York businessman in the apparel industry who once listed the Paw home as his address, according to public records. Mr. Hsu is one of the top fund-raisers for Mrs. Clinton's presidential campaign. He has hosted or co-hosted some of her most prominent money-raising events.; March 14, 2008 4:58 AM
protactinium said...: Hear is another donor with link to China. Hear is an issue with Clinton taking a blind eye to China Stealing secrets. Who is Hillary working for really?

This is a little old but shows a pattern of corruption by the Clintons.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1892387/posts

In 1996, President Clinton moved the oversight of satellite exports from the State and Defense Departments to the Commerce Department. After Clinton’s decision to lift the ban in Loral’s case and to allow the exportation of the company’s technology to the Chinese military, Loral CEO Schwartz handed over an additional $300,000 to the DNC.

In January 2002, Loral reached a settlement with the U.S. government in a case relating to the company’s involvement in passing U.S. military secrets to the Chinese military. Loral agreed to pay a civil fine of $14 million to the State Department without admitting or denying the government’s charges.

Bernard Schwartz has claimed repeatedly that his donations were not a quid pro quo and they did not buy his way into the Clinton White House. Will Hillary return his money and end any further questions to her integrity or will she — true to form — keep the money and remain silent?; March 14, 2008 5:05 AM
protactinium said...: So Time. I will take your word, that you honstly did not know about Hillary past of corruption. So why don't you go look up the canidites, and vote for whoever has less corruption.

"That connection is not what concerns me but just the poor character and questionable ties to possible terrorism himself (Achi).

I don't think Obama himself is a terrorist but the fact that he associates with those who are is disturbing and a question of poor judgment on her part."

If you keep smearing Obama you are a liar, or a hippocrit on your issues.

time- "Either debate the issues and quit with your way off base analysis of me or I will just ignore you."

"Obama rarely makes eye contact and seems very detached when shaking hands and working the crowds."

Take your own advice, and stop giving us your preception of how Obama looks. This is an opinon not a fact or an issue.; March 14, 2008 5:10 AM
Anonymous said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; March 14, 2008 6:55 AM
Anonymous said...: on March 12, 2008 @ 7:52 PM protactinium said...
"Time Hillary does not have buisness dealing with spitzer. However her and spitzer have a launrdy list of the same donors.

Now we have to ask, why are these people donating to both these canidites. I am sure people are already pouring over all and good chance may find some link to Hillary.

Just because Spitzer did not directly give money to Hillary does not mean deals have been made by both Hillary and Spitzer for poltical favors.

Its is also Hillarys fault. This is a women who claims to fight for women right.

Well why has she done nothing to combat this, or prevent these type of rings in NY. They are saying Spitzer may have been doing it for 5 to 10 years.

A fighter for women rights? Or just another politicion who uses women in order to gain power?

After all what type of role model was she when she allowed her husband to cheat on her not once, but many times.

You femanists have been bamboozled."

then on March 14, 2008 5:10 AM
protactinium said...
"stop giving us your preception of how Obama looks. This is an opinon not a fact or an issue."

SEEMS HE FORGOT TO TAKE HIS OWN ADVICE, HE WENT ON ABOUT SOME PATHETIC OPINION HE HAD AND WANTS US TO IMAGINE SOMEHOW HILLARY IS CONNECTED TO SPITZER, ALL THE WHILE HE DENIES BARACK OBAMA'S CONNECTIONS TO NADHMI AUCHI!
THESE OBAMA SUPPORTERS HAVE NO INFORMATION TO PROVIDE THEY ARE FULL OF HATE FOR WOMEN AND HOMOSEXUALS, AS EVIDENCED BY THE FACT THEY WILL ATTACK YOU BY SLURRING YOUR NAME WHEN THEY LOSE DEBATE!

SEE WHAT OBAMA, DWIT, MOJO, AND PROCTACTIUM DON'T WANT YOU TO KNOW!

** Auchigate **

** Ayers-Dohrn **

** Rezkogate **

Barack Obama Attempts To Intimidate with accusations of RACISM meant to divide our country, call the D.N.C. tell them YOU WILL NOT TOLERATE BARACK OBAMA OR HIS INTIMIDATION TACTICS, OR HIS TERRORIST CONNECTIONS!

IF YOU BELIEVE HILLARY CLINTON WOULD MAKE A BETTER PRESIDENT OR IF YOU ARE UNDECIDED PLEASE WATCH THIS VIDEO

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cINPxQOWO-c

PLEASE PASS THIS LINK ON TO YOUR FRIENDS AND FAMILY THROUGH EMAILS INSTANT MESSAGE OR BLOG POSTS WE MUST GET THE MESSAGE OUT, WE MUST FIGHT THIS WEDGE BARACK OBAMA AND HIS "YOU'RE A RACIST" CAMPAIGN TACTICS!

ANOTHER VIDEO OF INTEREST:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Suxll18ygi8

PLEASE STOP OBAMA'S DIVISIVE TACTICS!

SEE THE LATEST BAD DECISION BARACK OBAMA HAS MADE IN HIS CHOICE OF FRIENDS AND ASSOCIATES, HIS PASTOR BLAMES THE UNITED STATES FOR 9/11

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DABB7gslebo; March 14, 2008 7:50 AM
Carrie said...: Pro - you jerk! I am pregnant...now be nice to me. I know you know better... :)

Seriously, I need to get my nomination blogging obsession in check. I'm a believer in trying to get the right chemicals flowing through my brain to give my little one a shot at not being a nervous wreck. Time for me to be a little more laid back.

I'll leave with this note on why I started out favoring Hillary, and why I'm so excited about volunteering and voting for her. For all the bickering, I believe folks here have their good reasons for voting for their candidate. I do, too.

I have other, more objective reasons, but this is the most personal explanation.
---
I've told this story for years, not just during campaigns, but whenever I'm talking about how my wonderful life has come to be.

Hillary gave a speech that changed my life - saved it, even, as I don't think I'd have pulled myself out of my hopeless life to meet my husband and have my amazing daughter, Petra. My personal slogan is "Thank Hillary for Little Petras" - corny. No one from the campaign has contacted me about PR job openings.

Anyway, Hillary inspired me to act - to turn my life around on a dime. I left saying, "I'm going back to school!" Two days later I started classes at my local community college. I didn't talk about hope and change. I got up out of the dumps, dusted myself off, and created a very successful and happy life for myself. I volunteered in hospitals and schools, and taught in urban public schools along the way because I was so inspired by Hillary's life-long commitment to service. (Did you know she organized a babysitting brigade for migrant farm families when she was just 14?!?)

I hope all of the young people Senator Obama has inspired to get involved will take on the world the way I have, working with all of us to make this great country all the greater.

From where I sit, however, when it comes to the promise of meaningful transformation and change, Hillary is a sure thing!

Please help me thank Hillary for my little girl, Petra (and my new one on the way).

Hillary '08!; March 14, 2008 8:49 AM
Independent Voter said...: Carrie, you can thank Hillary all you want, however I'm ready to not only throw the kitchen sink at her, but the entire house!

First, she has NOT always been an advocate for children's rights. In 1975 she defended a CHILD RAPIST! Not only did she defend a child rapist, she did so by attacking the credibility of a 12 year old girl. That is not being an advocate for children's rights. That is being a MONSTER! http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/ny-usark245589997feb24,0,2670956.story

She says she's an advocate for women's rights. That is a false claim. She CONTINUES to accept and refuses to return campaign contributions from a firm that is well known for a long history of sexual harassment in the workplace. http://deepbackground.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/02/29/718285.aspx

She is CURRENTLY in the middle of an ONGOING Campaign Finance FRAUD lawsuit in California. Not a small lawsuit, it is a $17 MILLION lawsuit! http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=56868

She mismanaged her campaign early on. She blew threw $100 MILLION and ended up having to "LOAN" her campaign $5 Million. She has evidently according to her raised enough to pay back that loan, but has failed to do so. Why you might ask? The answer is simple. She is making money off that loan. What? You may ask. Yes it is true, she is CHARGING herself interest. People are not only paying for her campaign, they are PAYING HER personally! That's a laugh. Romney gave his campaign over $30 Million but didn't charge his campaign interest for that "investment" like Hillary is. http://query.nictusa.com/cgi-bin/dcdev/forms/C00431569/324192/sc/ALL

These are just a FEW of the things that the Republicans are going to use against her in November. These are not off-limit issues because they go directly to the CORE of her arguments.; March 14, 2008 11:09 AM
Siroco said...: Obama- Ayers == HRC-Spitzer; March 14, 2008 11:45 AM
Siroco said...: google Peter Paul; March 14, 2008 11:46 AM
Siroco said...: "If you see one candidate trying to sell you fear, and the other candidate is trying to get you to think and hope, you had better vote for the one who want you to think and hope."

--Bill Clinton

sage advice, which all should follow.; March 14, 2008 11:55 AM
Siroco said...: Carie
Thank you so much for sharing that story with us. Much more interesting reading. :) And I understand your feeling the way you do. I do think you give her too much credit and yourself too little for the self-transformation you underwent, but any kind of
real self-change is very difficult. If she helped catalyse
yours -- well and good.; March 14, 2008 12:08 PM
NO Obama said...: Has Hillary done business with or had social events, dinner, family outings, etc. with Hsu?

Therein lies the BIG DIFF!

Obama socialized with Rezko!!!

So did the wives!; March 14, 2008 12:46 PM
NO Obama said...: Hillary and Obama have millions of donors.

The pertinent question is did they KNOW them personally, socaialze with them, etc.?

Obama could have disassocaited himself from Rezko and his pastor and he chose not to because he believes what they say and do.

Simple; March 14, 2008 12:48 PM
Anonymous said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; March 14, 2008 2:14 PM
Anonymous said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; March 14, 2008 2:47 PM
Siroco said...: Please dont feed the trolls.

btw
City council memeber accused of VOTER FRAUD in Texas Caucus (HRC supporter)

Election volunteers trailed former Dallas City Council member Sandra Crenshaw, who was serving as a precinct chairwoman, through Oak Cliff late Tuesday. They allege that she sent away hundreds of angry convention-goers and told them she was taking sign-in documents favoring Barack Obama home to "correct them."

Ms. Crenshaw, who supports Hillary Rodham Clinton, paints a different picture – of a mob of Obama supporters from other states who were so unruly that she had to seek refuge at a police substation.

Democratic Party officials say they're still trying to figure out just what happened at the Singing Hills Recreation Center. So far, they know that Obama voters far outnumbered Clinton fans – and they say it appears that Ms. Crenshaw intended to use voting totals from earlier in the day to ensure that Mrs. Clinton received some of the precinct's delegates.

But Obama voters at the caucus say Ms. Crenshaw ducked out of the door and hopped into a friend's car, sign-in sheets in hand, shouting that she was going to Denny's. Instead, she led them to a local police substation, where police said she banged on the windows and shouted, "I'm being chased!" Inside the station, police confiscated the sign-in documents and called the Dallas County Democratic Party chairwoman, raising the possibility of voter fraud.; March 14, 2008 3:13 PM
Carrie said...: frstan - thanks...I definitely give myself credit for the hard work it took to get out of my situation and to create the new life I'm enjoying now. I just don't think I'd have had the, "Hey, wait!" moment without her.

____
independent thinker -

many things aren't as cut and dry as we'd like them to be. life presents conflict and muddy water, and I agree - the way we tackle them reflects on our character. the examples you provide do shed some light on Clinton's - I'll give you that. I just see them from a different perspective.

The rape case you raised represents a conflict that arose when she was working hard to get a legal aid clinic off the ground. Quality legal aid for the poor is still such a need - just look at the disproportionate share of poor people in prison.

Anyhoo, the victim, at 46, had no idea she had been "attacked" (just to clear up - it's not clear from your post whether you knew her statement wasn't made in court, others have presented it as though Clinton tore the girl apart in court).

What Clinton said, in a closed affidavit submitted to obtain a psychiatric exam, was this:

"I have ... been told by an expert in child psychology that children in early adolescence tend to exaggerate or romanticize sexual experience and that adolescents with disorganized families, such as the complainant's, are even more prone to such behavior. She exhibits an unusual stubbornness and temper when she does not get her way."

This is a far cry from attacking the girl or accusing her of lying. It was a generalization about kids in situations like hers, used to justify a court ordered psych exam.

What's more, the victim believes Clinton did the right thing both legally and ethically, as do the children's rights activists I've read who've spoken out on the subject.

At any rate, until I'm caught in a situation where I'm doing something I really believe in (fighting to provide legal aide to people who otherwise couldn't afford it), and find myself having to fight for the rights of someone who's violated another of my passionate causes, I don't think I'll judge.

I'm winding down here - letting go of some of the sniping, and I don't know enough about the other things you listed to comment. I do know about the case above, and in my book this one's to her credit.; March 14, 2008 3:14 PM
Siroco said...: Meet Obamas NEW Pastor:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJBclxZwisk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lY6qjeJ5mG8

What sort of Pastor is Wright's replacement? Is he different from Wright? In what way(s)?

Since each UCC congregation calls its own Pastor, what does Trinity UCC's new choice tell you, if anything?; March 14, 2008 3:17 PM
Carrie said...: frstan -

It seems like, if you want to be sneaky, you don't dart to the police and bang on the doors.

The caucuses were tough there. I've heard from Clinton supporters who had to leave to get their kids after waiting hours (I'm sure this happened to Obama supporters, too) - the caucus sites were overwhelmed.

Something could come of this, but it sounds unlikely.; March 14, 2008 3:22 PM
Independent Voter said...: Carrie, thanks for the respectful reply without sniping.

As far as I am concerned however, I DO NOT believe in sacrificing one for the "greater good" concept. If it were MY daughter who had been raped, I know for a FACT that I wouldn't want some ROOKIE lawyer coming in challenging my daughter's credibility, especially when ALL the evidence was there to back up her claim. She was trying to get a legal clinic for the poor so she challenges the credibility of someone who is poor? Tell me where that makes ANY kind of sense. That's a HORRIBLE argument. Suppose it was YOUR daughter who was god forbid raped, do you want a lawyer coming in and challenging her credibility for the "greater good"? I don't think so, especially since you have another one on the way.

This is going to sound like a harsh statement, and it is, YOU, as a mother, SHOULD BE ASHAMED OF YOURSELF, for making that argument!; March 14, 2008 3:41 PM
Carrie said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; March 14, 2008 3:52 PM
Siroco said...: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4q9nTfXh1eQ; March 14, 2008 4:04 PM
Independent Voter said...: Wow Carrie, you would SACRIFICE your daughter's credibility for the "greater good". That's a shame. And if that is what you call self-righteousness, so be it. I call it BEING A PARENT!; March 14, 2008 4:07 PM

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Saturday, March 01, 2008

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