Tuesday, April 01, 2008

Open Thread

WE'VE MOVED! Democratic Convention Watch is now at http://www.DemocraticConventionWatch.com

What is McCain's latest "senior moment", what does Obama need to do to win in November or whatever else is on your mind.

And please be excellent to one another. We do not accept name calling or any attacks on our commenters. Any objectionable comments will be deleted. Try to be civil.

Thanks!

Previous Open Thread is here

9555 comments:

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Oreo said...

Test

Vicki in Seattle said...

soooooo

is this the new, new place?

Oreo said...

This is it... ignore the address ;)

Vicki in Seattle said...

haha, okay!

hope everyone else shows up soon. maybe I should start up the margarita blender to lure them in.

Beryl said...

This is much better. This system enables all comments to go to an ID. Gmail keeps DCW comments in one neat thread.

If the other system would allow all comments (not just replies) sent to an email address, I'd prefer it over this one. The other system didn't require the PITA word verification.

apissedant said...

HEEEYYY!!! Thanks Oreo for being so accommodating, and sorry we're all a bunch of whiners. ;)
Karen, unless you yourself become President, you will never have a President whose actions you will agree with 100%. What's more, he is in a position that requires befriending and compromising with people that you and I would never even debase ourselves by talking to. So now he's making a few decisions that you and I dislike, partially because he's a different person, partially as a give and take in order to get some other things that he believes are more important, and partially as a campaign tactic to ensure moderates that his administration will not be a Communist regime that they must fear.

The fact is that I found the actions and words of Hillary and Bill deplorable over the past 12 months. I would find it almost impossible to say anything nice about them now, or to go on speaking tours with them.
The problem is that 18 million Americans not only still respect these two, but believed Hillary was the best choice for the Presidency. If Obama had taken such a hard and principled line, he would have seriously endangered his chances of becoming President, and thus seriously endangered America's future. As far as FISA is concerned, our nation has an energy crisis, an economic crisis, a war in Afghanistan that is spiraling out of control, and a money pit in Iraq that is amplifying all of these other problems. These problems are all far more important to FISA, so do we really want our Senate to spend 3 months arguing over FISA?

Sometimes elected officials have to put their personal beliefs and principles aside for the betterment of the nation. These decisions show a level of maturity that most of would be unable to muster. We shouldn't look down on him for compromising, we should instead take a step back, and admire him for realizing what is most important and focusing his attention on these problems.

apissedant said...

On another note, I have some personal and very exciting news....

















it's a boy! =)

Beryl said...

Congrats, apis! Name? Weight? Length?

apissedant said...

It's not out yet... not 'til December. So he weighs 1 pound, and I'm not allowed to publicly disclose the name until he is born, wife's rule.

apissedant said...

4 months and 1 week and I'll be a father living in the Netherlands... and just a month after that Obama will be President... all good things come in threes. ;)

Leah Texas4Obama said...

Oreo - THANK YOU!

Apissedant - CONGRATS!

BREAKING NEWS - John Edwards has just announced that he did have the affair with the woman that had the baby, but he is saying that he is not the father of the baby because of the timing of the birth!

apissedant said...

Ugh...
Thanks for the update Leah. Very unfortunate end to a terrific career. I'll have to read the story. :(

How many different married men was this woman sleeping with?

Beryl said...

Too bad Edwards was slipping around while his wife was suffering. No wonder he didn't want the VP spot -- he probably knew this was coming.

McSogyny can't say one word -- he is just as guilty!

apissedant said...

How anyone could do that to their wife and their child... and have the gull to run for President at the same time... no where near the character I thought he had.


I guess I'm glad my candidate lost.

apissedant said...

I gotta watch the video. If the affair was over, and it was in the press, and the child isn't his, why the hell did he visit that hotel? I guess the latest National Enquirer will show all the photos in the next issue. Milk it for the last dollar.

Leah Texas4Obama said...

Well, men will be men.
But what is really unforgivable is that if it is his baby he should have been wearing protection and he wasn't.

Any married men that fool around should at least wear protection so that they won't bring home any diseases to their wives!

jean said...
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Beryl said...

"If the affair was over, and it was in the press, and the child isn't his, why the hell did he visit that hotel?"

Exactly! Why was in that hotel in the middle of the night? This is fishy. Either it wasn't over, she was blackmailing or he is the father. We should know soon since someone is going to get DNA from both parties.

Why should we believe ANYTHING he says now?

BTW, Edwards was my second choice once I abandoned HRC but something bothered me about him. He isn't as slimy as Romney but he always reminded me a little of Mitt (and my sleazy boss).

apissedant said...

Leah,
This article strikes me, because I always kind of think like this:

http://www.abcnews.go.com/Business/PersonalFinance/story?id=5334891&page=1

You're not only cheating on the person you promised to love and cherish until death do you part. You're not only betraying your entire family, but you're using THEIR money to do it. TERRIBLE

Beryl said...

Can't let this go:

"The problem is that 18 million Americans not only still respect these two, but believed Hillary was the best choice for the Presidency"

This is not to offend anyone here but I'm just stating facts. HRC is not holding 18 million people hostage like that. The statistics show that the majority of "her supporters" have switched over to Obama and/or have become completely disappointed in her and Bubba's recent behavior.

For example, my mother (a former HRC fan) said that she is acting like a spoiled child. She is a over 10 years older than HRC.

We'll see if they do the right thing for the party over the next few weeks. I don't have a lot of confidence in that happening though. Every time I see an opportunity for them to mend fences, they disappoint me.

apissedant said...

A marriage is an emotional, a physical, and a financial partnership, and in an affair, you damage or destroy all three. And I had to say the same thing we said with Bill 16 years ago... but the chick was ugly! WHAT THE HELL!?!?

Not that her being attractive would excuse it or make it ok, but I feel when you cheat with ugly, you just really really wanted to cheat. It isn't a momentarily lapse in judgment, it is a serious flaw in your moral character.

apissedant said...

beryl,
I completely agree. The thing is, a large reason that most of those 18 million supporters have so seamlessly changed ships, is that Obama was so respectful, mature, and ridiculously magnanimous about the entire situation. Had he responded as most of us did, we would have ended up much more divided.
Most of us responded with a litany of accusations in the other direction, and insults not just to Bill and Hillary, but often to their supporters. Barack in contrast, remained calm and dignified. He corrected mistakes, clarified statements, and refused to allow the contest to become personal. This latest gesture is a continuation of that policy.

jean said...
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jean said...
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Leah Texas4Obama said...

So, who does everything think Obama will pick for his Attorney General now?

Leah Texas4Obama said...

Senator Obama is NOT responsible for the words and actions of his MILLIONS of supporters.

Obama is responsible for HIS actions and words. He isn't responsible for what others do - he has no control over that.

Leah Texas4Obama said...

The stupid talking heads are already talking about how the Edwards affair will affect the Obama campaign and the Democratic party - this is ridiculous!

Obama had nothing to do with Edwards not being able to keep his pants zipped up! ;)

apissedant said...

jean,
He can't be responsible for his supporters. He isn't our boss. We are effectively fans, and do we hold celebrities responsible for the actions of their fans? That would be ridiculous.

Now Hillary on the other hand, when she is still going to private parties and talking to her supporters about making sure her name gets placed in nomination, and talking about how they feel cheated in an excusing manner, now she is purposely creating a divide in that particular situation.

Obama has never encouraged our statements, in fact he has constantly discouraged us from making those statements. His 38 minute speech on race was a wonderful example of trying to bring people together and get us all to get past these divides.

As far as closed doors, you seem to have missed the point of my post entirely. My point is that Obama is mature enough not to close any of these doors. He knows in order to actually get anything done, he will have to work with people. This means he won't let this wedge issue divide him with this group, and that wedge issue divide him with that group, and so on and so forth until he is standing by himself in the corner of the Senate, unable to do anything.

apissedant said...

Obama is responsible for those people that work for him. He hired them, he is in charge of them, and he has a responsibility to fire them if they step out of line. He can't fire me, he didn't hire me, and therefore he cannot be held responsible for my actions.

Beryl said...

"Senator Obama is NOT responsible for the words and actions of his MILLIONS of supporters.

Obama is responsible for HIS actions and words. He isn't responsible for what others do - he has no control over that."

I SOOOOO agree with this. Many of us have said some things that were not so inclusive. I am 100% guilty! However, he has personally acted to build bridges. More importantly, he has publicly renounced many of our negative comments.

Bubba is holding OUR behaviors against Obama and that is just not right. I've personally said a lot against the Clintons and stand by every single word. I'm over here and they can come get me. Leave Obama alone.

jean said...
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apissedant said...

jean,
Semantics gets a bad wrap. Semantics- the meaning, or an interpretation of the meaning, of a word, sign, sentence, etc.: Let's not argue about semantics.

It seems to me the meaning of a sentence is rather crucial.

It is completely relevant and real. John McCain supporters are just fans too.
We want our respective candidate to be President, and we talk about how great they are, or how bad the other one is. This does not mean that McCain endorses his supporters, that means his supporters endorse him. Same with Obama, and same with Hillary.

Do we hold a CEO liable for the actions of a stockholder? NOOOOO! That's ridiculous, he cannot regulate who does or does not buy his stock. Obama can also not regulate who does or does not support and vote for him.

WE are NOT the candidate. WE are individuals who endorse the candidate. The candidate does not endorse us. We will not run the government, he will. He can try to influence our behavior, but he does not control us.

Beryl said...

Yep, my mother was a HRC fan.

Beryl said...

"You have totally lost me in the distancing of supporters and the candidate"

The Sturgis bikers are McCain fans. They have pickle licking and topless/bottomless pageants. (OK, bad example since McCain offered up his wife to participate in that.)

I'm quite certain that that the KKK is supporting McCain. That doesn't mean that McCain is a racist. You can't blame McCain for their actions. Here is a post I got from a local Obama supporter. You can't blame McCain for the behavior of this racist:

"I always like hearing people who protested in the 60's brag about having been arrested. I kinda put this in the same vein. I was canvasing a neighborhood near mine on monday night. I came to a house that was on my list on a "no outlet" street. As i walked up, I noticed on his car three stickers: one said big buck hunter, the other two were an NRA logo and a rebel flag (bare in mind that i live in the northern state of Indiana yet these flags are everywhere around here. i dont get it.) When i saw those stickers, i almost said screw it and left, but he was on my list so i knocked.
"hello sir my name is Jay, and im canvasing the neighborhood for Senator Obama to-" he interupted "LIKE IM GONNA VOTE FOR A BLACK MUSLIM!!! GET THE FUCK OUT OF HERE!!!" i told him to have a good evening, and walked away from his door. Now i wouldnt compare the strut i usad as i walked away to John Travlota in Saturday Night Fever, but it was deffinitly noticeable, and as i reached the road and walked toward the next house, he opened his window and yelled "IF I EVER SEE YOUR BLEEDIN' HEART ASS ON MY STREET AGAIN, IM GONNA SHOOT YOU IN THE BACK!!!" I yelled back "DON'T MISS, IT'LL HURT YOU MORE THAN ME IF YOU DO."
Now the last part might have been more than i should have said, but I said it.
When i was in Iraq, i stared down an insurgent with a shoulder-mounted RPG launcher. I wasn't gonna let a racist redneck prick like him see me scared of him. I'm no bad-ass, but I am so sick of seeing this willed igonrance in people.
The reason I'm telling you all this story is two-fold. first i want everyone who has dealt with BS like this already to know that they arent alone, and two i want everyone to know that we still have people out there spreading that BS, and that means that we need to be out there spreading the truth. We can debate substance on here all we want, but please, please please dont let these racist pricks win because we are busy arguing over small things that irritate us. lets get to work!

jay"

jean said...
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jean said...
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tmess2 said...

The Edwards debacle does not change the AG pick in an Obama Administration. The AG pick both before and after Senator Edwards indiscretion came to life was/is Senator McCaskill.

Leah Texas4Obama said...

jean-

I really have no idea how you can say that Senator Obama has not given HRC support.

He has been helping with HER fundraising.
He has added 'her voice' to the democratic platform.
He has HER scheduled to speak on Tuesday at the convention. And Bill on Wednesday.

The fact is that SHE is not the nominee. Obama is the nominee and EVERYONE is supposed to be supporting Obama - not HRC at this point.

You don't see McCain being pressured to supporting Romney, Huckabee, etc.

What the hell is going on here that people think HRC should be getting special treatment now that she is no longer a candidate?

What I see is that all this fuss regarding HRC now is HURTING us women. The fuss is shining a light on the one viable EX-female-candidate and trying to make it seem that 'women candidates' deserve some special treatment. This is a very WRONG thing to be doing. Women should not be portrayed as being better than other ex-MALE-candidates.

Women must fight for an 'EQUAL' portrayal NOT a 'we are better than men' portrayal.

The more HRC fights against UNITY and fights against her supporters backing Obama 10000% - then the only thing that will happen will be more negativity for women, the democratic party, and America!

We have ONE nominee and his name is Barack Obama.

HRC has to learn to step back and let the spotlight shine on Obama and not her and her husband. We have an election to win!

apissedant said...

jean,
Go back and read my posts. You have quite obviously misinterpreted them completely. Read what they are responding too as well. The purpose of my posts were to show the importance of compromise and coming together, despite differences. You have apparently taken the exact opposite out of them. I do not know how this occurred, so I would very much appreciate if you reread them again.


Beryl, who is this Jay person in Indiana?

apissedant said...

Everyone keeps naming Senators for all of his cabinet picks. This will not happen, and should not happen. We have a lot of strong leaders in the Senate, and we need them to continue doing their work. Most administrations pull most of their cabinet people from outside of the current elected official pool.

jean said...
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Beryl said...

Jean,
I did bad-mouth the Clintons. I hear that Bill is mad at Obama for people turning against him. If Bill wants to be mad at someone, I'd rather he direct his anger at me -- a nobody who is not paid by the Obama campaign but merely donated to him and passed up a summer vacation trip.

Leah,
I agree 100%. Obama has done everything I'd expect him to do to support HRC and help her pay her debts. He and Michelle have said wonderful things about her and both have encouraged people to donate to her. He added a link to his website to facilitate the giving.

Obama now needs to concentrate on winning the 2008 election instead of petting Clinton egos. Bubba (yeah, that is what I mean when I say I bad-mouth him) needs to say "Yes, Obama is qualified to be President!" Heck, he had less national experience when I voted for him back in 1992.

I loved HRC -- God knows I did (using Sophia's voice from "The Color Purple"). But she needs to tell her extreme supporters (PUMA) to get with the program. If they don't, she needs to denounce them.

apissedant said...

WHO BASHED THE CLINTONS!?!?!!?!

Beryl said...

apis,

Jay is a guy on the "VicePresidentSpeculationForum" from the Obama website.

I can't imagine being confronted like that. This kind of reaction is why I stick to phone calls!!

Leah Texas4Obama said...

jean said: "It is the supporters of Obama who are not recognizing the accomplishment and are basically disqualifyng the supporters of HRC."
------

Okay I'll bite.

Please list out what exactly it is that you think I should be doing in order to 'recognize the accomplishment of HRC'?

Also, please list at least three things that are her accomplishments that no other woman has done 'other than run in the race and get 17 million votes'.

What exactly has she done for women that no other person has done?

I have acknowledged that she has gotten more votes than any other woman running in a national campaign. But at the same time her accomplishing this feat has also given the impression that all other females are now not supposed to be considered for the VP slot. This is NOT good!

So,what do you think I am obligated to do as an American citizen and supporter of Senator Obama?

Leah Texas4Obama said...

Beryl-

I think the first thing Hillary needs to do is DENOUNCE and REJECT the anti-Obama PUMA haters - and all the other groups that 'say' they support Hillary by bashing Obama every day.

Enough is enough.

The PUMAs and the other bashers don't realize that 'if' Obama were to lose this year's election then in 2012 HRC would not have enough support to win because then she would have all the Republicans PLUS all the Obama folks against her.

jean said...
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Leah Texas4Obama said...

New-

John Edwards statement...

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/08/08/edwards-i-have-been-stripped-bare/

.

apissedant said...

Karen said,
Is this the refuge from the new open thread software? :-)

What's with gak Bill Clinton in Wednesday night? I see how Hillary is due a spot, but that red-faced petulant creep smearing Wednesday night? Two nights of people many voters despise? How many voters will he drive away?

After this and FISA I am getting doubts about what kind of President Obama will be. He seems to cave. McCain would be far worse, of course, I am just no longer sure how much Obama can accomplish.


I responded,
The fact is that I found the actions and words of Hillary and Bill deplorable over the past 12 months. I would find it almost impossible to say anything nice about them now, or to go on speaking tours with them.
The problem is that 18 million Americans not only still respect these two, but believed Hillary was the best choice for the Presidency. If Obama had taken such a hard and principled line, he would have seriously endangered his chances of becoming President, and thus seriously endangered America's future.



It is quite clear that I am speaking negatively about my, and many other supporters inability to grow beyond the differences we had in the primary. I am speaking positively about Obama's ability to allow bygones to be bygones. The overall message is one of acceptance and compromise, not hate and division. I don't know how you got the interpretation it was anything else.

apissedant said...

jean,
I honestly assumed aunt jean would misinterpret and take it out of context, but I didn't think you would. Hopefully the full dialogue clears up any misunderstanding.

Leah Texas4Obama said...

My observation...

Even here on this thread the focus is always taken away from Obama and ISSUES when Hillary and Bill are in the spotlight in the news media!

I am hoping that by having Hillary speaking on Tuesday and Bill on Wednesday the Hill/Bill supporters will get their fix and then move on and put their focus on OUR NOMINEE.

Mike in Maryland said...

Beryl,

Since I grew up in Indiana, I have a good feeling for the politics of that state. It's been described as the most northern southern state at times - in the 1920s, many say that Indiana had more KKK members than any other state in the nation.

BTW - was 'Jay' talking about the attitude in southern Indiana (south of Indianapolis) or extreme north east Indiana (north of Fort Wayne)? Both are still hot beds of racism and KKK activity.

To all,

It is the responsibility of the candidate to set the tone of the campaign, control the message, set the priorities of the campaign, and to control the employees of the campaign. As to supporters of the candidate, the candidate doesn't and can't control them directly. Their only option is to control them by the tone of the campaign, and the message coming FROM the campaign.

You'll notice that the Obama campaign does a much better job of controlling the tone and message. You don't hear comments like "Senator Obama does not speak for the campaign" like the Mc"Needs a"Cain campaign shot out about a week ago about their campaign's nominee. You don't see the Obama campaign waiting for a week or more to take action when a campaign aid or advisor makes ridiculous statements (as happened with Phil Gramm and the Mc"Needs a"Cain campaign.

So to say that a candidate controls their supporters is incorrect. What they attempt to do, and is a high priority for every candidate, is to influence their supporters to act and react in a way that does not embarrass (or worse) the campaign. Thus it is up to us to act in the manner the campaign wants and needs us to behave.

Mike

Beryl said...

Wow, Mike. I guess you know about the folks in Indiana. I know nothing about them as I only drove through there a few time on my way to or away from Ohio.

I quoted Jay's post in its entirety so I don't know what part of the state he was canvassing. Pretty sad and scary stuff though.

Leah,
You are right. I don't need to spend any more time talking about the Clintons. The bad guys are McCain and the RNC and I need to remember that.

jean said...
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apissedant said...

Leah, Beryl, and Mike,

I agree completely, and this is effectively the message I was trying to exude, although I obviously failed at properly conveying it.

apissedant said...

jean,
I honestly didn't finish reading the post, because it started with misinterpretation again.


I said that many supporters have been rude and unforgiving towards the Clintons due to the perceived missteps and insults that the Clintons imposed on the Obama camp.

Karen was perpetuating this act, and my statement was just that I understand it, and I would have a hard time accepting the Clintons into the fold based on the way I perceived events.

HOWEVER, Obama is instead pulling them into the fold regardless of any perceived errors or insults. He is being bigger than the game, and this is positive. We should not remove our support from him, or have a lack of confidence in him for doing this, because THIS IS THE RIGHT THING TO DO.

Even though we may not necessarily agree with this approach, and even though we would sometimes be unable to do it in Obama's shoes, we should still be able to realize that it not only acceptable, but REQUIRED TO MOVE ON.

His ability to do this shows how great of a leader he is. That is my whole point in a nutshell. You have perceived it as an insult at the Clinton camp or the Clinton supporters, or at promoting the message of hate and disdain towards the Clinton camp. IT IS THE OPPOSITE OF THIS. I WAS ARGUING AGAINST SOMEONE WHO BELIEVED IN THIS APPROACH.

Leah Texas4Obama said...

jean-

I guess the way I look at it is there is no longer a HRC camp. Hillary had her big farewell hurrah when she gave her concession speech at the D.C. museum.

Now there is only an Obama camp and a McCain camp.

Obama did win and the Obama supporters should not have to feel bad about rejoicing in that fact.

HRC closed her offices and let her staff go home in June. It is now August. It is time to move on. The primaries are over - it is now the general election and there are only two candidates - Obama and McCain.

I will shout from the roof tops everyday about how much I want Senator Obama to be president and not look backwards to the past!

In my mind HRC is just another ex-candidate as is Edwards, Dodd, Romney, Huckabee, etc. I feel no obligation to public praise HRC to the high heavens.

Where is the praise for Nancy Pelosi - she broke the glass ceiling. Where is the praise for all of the female Senators and U.S. Representatives? They broke the glass ceiling and no one is constantly praising their accomplishments.

Leah Texas4Obama said...

With all of the news about Edwards it knocked the news about Hillary's Obama rally off the news!

http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/08/08/clinton-stresses-support-for-obama-candidacy/

---
FoxNews always uses the worst photo of Obama that they can find!

apissedant said...

Leah,
LOL, I think the photo is cute.

jean said...
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apissedant said...

jean,
I have no idea what your problem is with my wording, so I'll just let it go.

Mike in Maryland said...

Leah said...
FoxNews always uses the worst photo of Obama that they can find!

Or a photo they've doctored to get the 'desired effect'.

Mike

Karen Anne said...

What Leah said about HRC expecting special treatment. Makes me grind my teeth, damages women by making us all look bad.

I think Bill's problem is that he can't grasp the idea that he isn't going to be back in the White House.

He really is acting like a two year old. More and more I think his heart trouble caused an oxygen lack to his brain, although he was never distinguished by maturity before, i.e. Monica and her predecessors and the women after her, including the even more unsavory stuff like allegations of force.

So Obama may have to work with the Clintons to some extent, but it's kind of like working in the sewer because you have to support your family.

Leah Texas4Obama said...

In our U.S. history we have had a total of 35 female U.S. Senators (currently 16).

I doubt that very many people know that fact.

Obama/Sebelius '08

Leah Texas4Obama said...

Karen Anne said: "So Obama may have to work with the Clintons to some extent...."
----------------

This is what makes me upset.
Obama should not have to be wasting his time right now to appease the Clintons. Obama has more important things to be focused on. It should be the Clintons that are helping and supporting Obama, not the other way around.
Also, every time the 'Clinton' issue comes up it takes away from time that is needed in the media to promote Obama's agenda and the Obama candidacy.

Mike in Maryland said...

Jean,

A more effective way to get your messages presented is to remember that this discussion forum is NOT a Power Point presentation with 'talking points', but no fleshing out of those 'talking points' in the message.

You will get your point across more clearly and probably better received if you write in full sentences, and separate the different parts of your message into paragraphs.

Short, choppy sentences don't convey.
Lack of paragraph breaks are difficult.
The above and more discourage.

Now to put the above into a non-Power Point presentation type of wording:

It is difficult to convey your intent when you write in short and choppy sentences. Flesh out those thoughts so they contain more information, thus the reader has a much better idea what you are discussing or the information you are trying to convey.

When thoughts are in separate paragraphs, it makes reading the information much easier. At the end of the paragraph, your eyes have an opportunity to 'reset', and the reader can much easier pick up where they left off. If the reader has an easier time reading the information, they have more time to consider what you are stating, and thinking about what you said.

If someone is having difficulty trying to figure out the ideas you are posting because of the structure of the message is interfering, they don't have, or won't take, the time to consider the thoughts and ideas you wrote.

Just a suggestion, but it would probably help you get your messages through more clearly.

Mike

jean said...
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jean said...
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jean said...
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Mike in Maryland said...

Little known facts:

The first woman elected to Congress was Jeannette Rankin from Montana. She won the election in 1916, almost four years before the 19th Amendment was ratified, and all women in the US were given the right to vote.

Ms. Rankin was the first woman in Congress - it was only later that some women became Representatives after their spouse died.

Ms. Rankin was one of 50 Representatives to vote against US entry into the war.

In 1940, Ms. Rankin successfully ran for Congress again, and on December 8 was the only Representative to vote "No" on the Declaration of War against Japan. At the time, she stated "As a woman, I can't go to war and I refuse to send anyone else. I vote 'NO'".

BTW - Ms. Rankin was a life-long member of the Church of the Brethren, one of the denominations that got the Conscientious Objector provision into the draft laws. The other denominations were the Society of Friends (aka the Quakers), Mennonites and the Amish)

I'm posting this more or less as a diversion from the discussion of Senator Clinton, her campaign, and whether she is or is not supporting Senator Obama adequately, and as a furtherance of the discussion on pioneer women in Congress.

Mike

Leah Texas4Obama said...

Edith Bolling Galt Wilson

Edith Bolling Galt Wilson (October 15, 1872 – December 28, 1961), second wife of Woodrow Wilson, was First Lady of the United States from 1915 to 1921. She has been labeled "the Secret President" and "the first woman to run the government" for the role she played when her husband suffered prolonged and disabling illness. Some even refer to her as "the first female president of the United States."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edith_Bolling_Wilson

Honorary Title:
Acting President of the United States
October 2, 1919–March 4, 1921

.

Beryl said...

Speaking of women leaders, I was embarrassed by Bush's encounter with Filipino President Gloria Macapagal Arroyo in June.

"PRESIDENT BUSH: Madam President, it is a pleasure to welcome you back to the Oval Office. We have just had a very constructive dialogue. First, I want to tell you how proud I am to be the President of a nation that -- in which there's a lot of Philippine-Americans. They love America and they love their heritage. And I reminded the President that I am reminded of the great talent of the -- of our Philippine-Americans when I eat dinner at the White House. (Laughter.)

PRESIDENT ARROYO: Yes.

PRESIDENT BUSH: And the chef is a great person and a really good cook, by the way, Madam President.

PRESIDENT ARROYO: Thank you."
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/06/24/bush-to-filipino-presiden_n_108985.html

Why would that idiot mention his cook? That is as crazy as me mentioning my Mexican yardman if addressing the Mexican President Felipe Calderón. She was very gracious about it though.

apissedant said...

jean,
"Bring the Clinton camp back into the fold," means not holding grudges, giving those that are qualified positions in the administration or the campaign, or speaking positions at the convention. The whole idea is to not hold grudges and to move on to the next step without continually drudging up the past. It isn't effective and we all SHOULD be on the same team.

Forget the bad stuff.

apissedant said...

beryl,
Thanks for giving me more reasons to hate Republicans and George W. Bush. That is despicable. She should have walked out.

suzihussein22 said...

To Matt, Oreo, DocJess, et al-Thank you so much for accomodating this thread. It looks like we're back to normal. ; )

suzihussein22 said...

vicki-I'd like extra lime for my margarita. Thanks!

suzihussein22 said...

I am very disappointed that Edwards...cheated(which is also a lie to me) and let down his wife in her time of need. Just think what this would have been like to find out after if he had won the nomination. Talk about operation chaos. Mrs. Edward's condition is actually one of the reasons I wouldn't have picked Edwards. I don't see how he could've focused as POTUS when he needed to be there for her and the family.

Beryl said...

"Mrs. Edward's condition is actually one of the reasons I wouldn't have picked Edwards. I don't see how he could've focused as POTUS when he needed to be there for her and the family."

Now that you mention it, that bothered me too. I just figured that they (as a couple) were dealing with the situation in their unique way.

What he did is horrible and McCheater needs to be quiet since he behaved just as badly, IMO.

suzihussein22 said...

McCain is like totally clueless-

http://tinyurl.com/694bkk


This is definitely not hot. ;-P

suzihussein22 said...

peevish-BTW, I redid my photo and it shows up on the laptop but so far not on the desktop, mr. hurry up man.

suzihussein22 said...

Now I see it.

apissedant said...

where's that democracy puzzle from?

Vicki in Seattle said...

I love this place, the arguements are a microcosm of the overall DNC.

I remember the good Clinton, the popular Clinton, who did so much good. I wish he'd STFU so that I can continue to remember that Clinton.

Edwards - well, that was a shock! I really don't think it will affect Obama's campaign much. Oh, some will try to spin it that way, but seriously, it's a desperate maneuver.

but I'll go whip up some 'ritas for right now. It's been a hard day for me, lots of trauma/drama, and I'm ready to kick back for the evening.

Aunt Jean said...

Ap I understood what you were saying but it's BS like this that makes Hillary supporter mad.If people like her and someone else don't learn to keep their bad mouthing in check Obama will lose in Nov. But the are foolish enough to believe that Obama can win without Hillary supporters. Just goes to show you how foolish they really are.

Karen Anne What Leah said about HRC expecting special treatment. Makes me grind my teeth, damages women by making us all look bad.

I think Bill's problem is that he can't grasp the idea that he isn't going to be back in the White House.

He really is acting like a two year old. More and more I think his heart trouble caused an oxygen lack to his brain, although he was never distinguished by maturity before, i.e. Monica and her predecessors and the women after her, including the even more unsavory stuff like allegations of force.

So Obama may have to work with the Clintons to some extent, but it's kind of like working in the sewer because you have to support your family.

Just wanted to know, you talk about the sewer. I wonder if you have visited it because when you talk about the Clintons instead of the respect they DESERVE even if you don't like it TS .You need to learn how to show respect because you are a very disrespectful person. Jean

Aunt Jean said...

Karen Anne

how would you like it if people went around all the time and said that Obama was a drugy. Did he not take drugs. Yes he was young but he was still grown man. No instead of letting bygone be bygone you are like alittle girl throwing a fit. I wanttttt I wantttt nowwww. Grown up! Jean

jean said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Aunt Jean said...

Ap

the most important thing CONGRATS!!!!! I'm so excited for you. You will be a good father. Jean

apissedant said...

jean,
I figured we would pretty much agree if we fully understood what each other was attempting to say. ;)

aunt jean,
I argued that we SHOULD let bygones be bygones, so my argument is not BS, it is in fact the foundation of YOUR argument. (I even used the same terminology)

jean said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
apissedant said...

aunt jean,
Thank you very much. My wife and I are very happy, and she's really starting to show. :)

I only get to see it in pictures, but it should be enough for now.

Aunt Jean said...

Ap
before it goes any futher I wasn't saying that you said BS I was referring to what Karen Anne said.

Aout the pics of your baby at least you have that. Just think about the pleasure and love that will be yours when you are reunited with your wife.Stay strong!!!! Jean

Aunt Jean said...

Jean

I agree with you. You don't have to like someone to show respect and that is not what I'm seeing. I'm not saying that what they say will effect how I vote but there are plenty of people out there that it would.


Yes that also show disrespect and acting like a child.It's just not good for the whole democrat party.Jean

Aunt Jean said...

Karen Anne and Leah,

the fact is that you two at one point or other bring up petty things that doesn't even matter anymore. I agree with the fact that Bill shouldn't have done what he did {It was wrong].

The fact still remains that when he was President of the USA he did a great job so for that I have a lot of respect.

As far as Hillary, has she done things that I disaprove of, of course but the fact still remains that she has made a mark for woman and mankind, for that I have a lot of respect for her.

You two are so busy putting what they did wrong [even though terrible] on the front burner. That you never give her or Bill credit where credit is due.

It's time to put an end of this pettiness. We all want the same thing. For someone to get in there and try [because that's all they can really do] and do the right thing for the paople.

You two act like Obama is some kind of God and has done no wrong. Well I have a news flash he's done plenty wrong in my eyes. Do I hold it against he no not really. I try my best to look at the whole picture and do what is right for the people [and of course what I want].

Maybe you two need to take a look at what is in your hearts and do the right thing and forget about the pettiness you feel about the Clintons. Jean

Leah Texas4Obama said...

Well the Olympic Opening Ceremony was awesome (even though I missed the first 1 1/2 hours that I will watch in the morning) !

Just AWESOME!

Aunt Jean said...

Oreo I almost forgot you are awesome for bringing back the old thread!!!!Thanks Jean

Leah Texas4Obama said...

Okay everyone-

This is how I see it here on the thread.

Aunt Jean respects Hillary and Bill that will never change.

Leah doesn't care much at all for Hillary and Bill and that will not change.

StopObamaNow doesn't seem to really like anyone - and that will not change.

Some people were/are Clinton supporters and some aren't.

Some people are Obama supporters and some aren't.

Let us stop criticizing each other for their beliefs when they are stated here on the thread.

Let us stop trying to sway the other person's opinion.

Let us NOT stop saying what we believe no matter who disagrees with it.

Let us NOT tell other people what they can say or think (even if it is 'stop').

Let us not expect that 'everyone' should recognize the good qualities in the people that we admire and let us not expect that 'everyone' will recognize the bad qualities in the people that we do not admire.

And let us not forget to smile ;)

Aunt Jean said...

Leah I'm not asking for you to recognize the great qualities of the Clintons and what they have done.

All I'm asking or saying if you really want Obama to be the next POTUS that is what every democrat needs to think about instead of bringing up the pettiness of years ago and recent things.

I was not [and that kick is really boring] trying to tell you what to think and say if you were referring to me. If not please except my apology. Jean

Leah Texas4Obama said...

Aunt Jean-

My post was not directed at you it was for EVERYONE ;)

---
I think Obama will win no matter what I say or you say. So, lets just say what we want to say and lets not argue amongst ourselves.

This is America - we don't have to all think alike or say the same thing all the time. Individuality is a great thing and it is what make America great.

jean said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Leah Texas4Obama said...

Obama Begins Week Long Vacation

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/08/08/obama-begins-weeklong-vac_n_117873.html

.

Leah Texas4Obama said...

jean-

During the 'nations' part I heard Scottish, Irish, Mexican, Chinese, and other types of music...

jean said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Leah Texas4Obama said...

Hillary Clinton in Nevada

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/08/08/clinton-says-she-wants-ob_n_117863.html

.

jean said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Leah Texas4Obama said...

The comments on this thread:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/08/08/clinton-says-she-wants-ob_n_117863.html

are a good example of how many of the Hillary supporters are still threatening to 'write in Hillarys name on the ballot' or are going to vote for McCain. Her supporters are not listening to what SHE is saying to them. If they are not listening to her then how can they say that they are true supporters of her? It just doesn't make sense. By voting for McCain it is a slap in her face and against everything that she believes in!

Leah Texas4Obama said...

jean-

I don't know when the Obama ad will air. I was thinking that it would have been tonight but I didn't see it. McCain ran his 'negative one'. I am glad that Obama's didn't run tonight because I have read that people are not happy about McCain airing a negative commercial during the Olympics.

I've seen Obama's ad and it is not a bashing ad like McCain's is.

Here's a link to Obama's Olympic ad called 'Hands'.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/08/08/obama-releases-his-olympi_n_117699.html

.

Leah Texas4Obama said...

So, McCain spent 6 million dollars for his Olympic ad package and Obama spent 5 million dollars on his.

I am wondering if the extra one million dollars that McCain spent is 'only' for the ad that was run during the Opening Ceremonies. If it was then I think he wasted a lot of money for nothing!

jean said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Leah Texas4Obama said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Leah Texas4Obama said...

jean -

You are in for an awesome treat. After the nations parade the next partS are just mind blowing! Be sure to watch ALL of what is coming next :)

Leah Texas4Obama said...

A funny on YouTube...

John McCain: World's Oldest Celebrity ("Celeb" Ad Parody) Obama '08

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGkFE0N8LeA

Hahahaha!

A couple more funny ones...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fvvNU7fBxk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DateZ4rFH9c

There was another that had the beginning of the McCain ad where it says "Obama - the biggest celebrity in the world -- I am Barack Obama and I approve this ad"... but I couldn't find that one on the web ;(

jean said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Leah Texas4Obama said...

An excerpt from FoxNews regarding the small rally of a couple thousands people in Hawaii after Obama's plane landed...


While he didn’t mention his Republican rival, Obama did give the crowd a taste of his stump speech, briefly touching on energy, foreign policy, and health care. He also praised the state where he grew up. Obama said that people ask him what he took away growing up in what many consider paradise. Here’s what he had to say about his former home state:

" I try to explain to them something about the Aloha Spirit. I try to explain to them this basic idea that we all have obligations to each other. That we’re not alone. That if we see somebody who’s in need, we should help. If there’s a child who doesn’t have a decent school, we should help rebuild that school. If there’s someone elderly, then we should make sure that they have a life of comfort and dignity. That we look out for one another, that we deal with each other with courtesy and respect, and most importantly when you come from Hawaii you start understanding that what’s on the surface, what people look like — that doesn’t determine who they are and that the power and strength of diversity. The ability of people from everywhere, whether they’re black or white or whether they’re Japanese Americans or Korean Americans or Filipino Americans – whatever they are - they’re just Americans. And that all of us can work together and all of us can join together to create a better country."

http://embeds.blogs.foxnews.com/2008/08/08/obamas-aloha-spirit/

.

Aunt Jean said...

Well everyone this gal is headed for bed so have pleasent dreams. Goodnight everyone! Jean

tmess2 said...

While the campaign is officially calling the next week a vacation for Senator Obama, it is more like a period of quiet work.

Most presidential candidates have taken a break in the middle of the summer before their convention for the simple fact that they have two key things to work on and neither can be done while making four campaign rallies and two fundraisers a day.

While I am sure that Senator Obama will enjoy some time resting on the beaches of Hawaii and spending time with his family, I am sure that a large part of the week will be spent doing those two activities -- 1) reviewing the summary reports of Mr. Holder and Ms. Kennedy on the background checks of the candidates on the short list and narrowing it down to the final two or three to choose from; 2) working on a draft of his acceptance speech. Both of these activities require the kind of quiet time that you can't get when you are running here and there for the entire day on the campaign trail.

Hopefully, the Senator will not be working to hard and will get the rest that he needs. As Vice-President Gore, Senator Kerry, and Senator Edwards can tell him, the two months of the campaign between Labor Day and election day will be grueling and exhausting and rest will become a prized commodity.

apissedant said...

aunt jean,
ok, misunderstood. Glad to here we're roughly on the same page. ;)
And I'm getting more pictures of the soon to be child today. :)

Aunt Jean said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Aunt Jean said...

Ap

correction you said soon to be child!!! It's already a child it's just staying warm and cozy inside mama to be able to grown and face this sometimes ugly world. But I knew what you meant.LOL. I'm really happy for you. Jean

Rich (vtslayer) said...

Aunt Jean, please don't pull that pro-life shit here.

Vicki in Seattle said...

apissedant - this is a really exciting time for new dads, during the pregnancy. this is your first, right? I sincerely hope you can be together for the delivery, it's stunning and awesome and a piece of the miracle of being alive. my best to you!

oreo - thanks for changing it back! the other way was just taking too long to load, and then reading the posts was time consuming and confusing. perhaps we could have a message board, with separate threads?

Beryl said...

Anyone watch "Nightline" last night?

I was very UNimpressed with Edwards. A long interview like that was pointless. Perhaps it underscored his own admission of narcissism. He gave evasive answers to a lot of specific questions about the photo and his visit to the hotel.

He is still lying about most things, IMO. I think he was telling the truth when he answered the question about how his wife reacted to that hotel visit. She was mad that he was still making contact with the other woman.

What is up with men(and women) who cheat on their spouses? I almost understand why women stay with their DOG husbands if they have young children and no financial means. However, if a woman has education and the ability to financially remain solvent, I think they should kick their philandering spouses out. Allowing themselves to be mistreated like that sends the wrong messages to their children and the world. Boys feel that it is OK to cheat and girls thing all men are dogs.

I completely understand Mrs. Edwards staying if it was because of her illness and if she didn't have any extended family help for her children.

The "it is a personal matter" excuse doesn't fly with me when it comes to politicians. Cheating is just as important to me as other political issues. If you'd lie to your wife and mother of your children, you'd lie to the public.

Edwards lied and cheated on a woman who is suffering from cancer after running his campaign on family and morality themes. I'm so done with him.

I hope the RNC does try to make a campaign issue over this thing. McCain's behavior was WORSE because he "cut and ran" from his first wife while she was still suffering.

suzihussein22 said...

peevish-ohh, oreos and milk...anyway, my husband took that picture in Burlington, VT(sorry Rich)...

My condolences go out to the family of Bernie Mac.

suzihussein22 said...

beryl-very unimpressed...that's putting it a lot nicer that what I just said...my kids are out playing with friends, btw...I wouldn't care if I had to be homeless, and my husband knows he wouldn't leave unscathed either. I take that vow VERY SERIOUSLY!

Vicki in Seattle said...

I feel bad for Elizabeth - imagine going through all the anger and emotion privately, and being done with it. Now, to be recovering from cancer and have to go through it all again, publicly.

it's not for his sake that we should let sleeping dogs lie. it's for HER sake.

apissedant said...

vicki,
I would agree in allowing this to blow over for Elizabeth. She did nothing wrong, and she unfortunately does not have much time left with her family. It would be nice if she were able to enjoy that time in peace. The despicable actions of her husband should not continue to haunt her until death. There is a rather good article in the Washington Post about the affair.

I was not terribly unimpressed with the video. Yes, he is less trustworthy, but I still don't buy that photo is of him. It honestly doesn't look like him, and copying the color and sweat stains he was wearing on a t-shirt of another photo does not make the photo more believable by any means. I did not find him evasive during the interview. He seemed as honest and forthright about it as was possible.

This does not in any way forgive his terrible misdeeds, but at least he came clean. He could have continued to deny it and not done an interview at all, which is more respectable?

As to the woman... I think she set him up at the Hilton. I also think she's a dirty whore, who apparently makes a business out of sleeping with married men. The other married man that apparently got paid for sleeping with her is no better. That is extortion and I would like all of them to go to jail.

All three of these people did terrible things, but of the three, Edwards is the best. As far as anyone knows, he isn't a serial cheater, and he didn't attempt to profit from the affair. That cannot be said about the other two involved.


The National Enquirer is still tabloid trash. I said from the beginning that he may very well have had an affair, but the crap that the Enquirer was putting out was in no way proof. We'll know for sure when and if the paternity test comes back. If it comes back negative, than the Enquirer was still wrong. The Enquirer is wrong all the time, because it has a very low threshold for proof required for printing. That doesn't mean they're never right, you throw enough shit, and some is bound to stick.

Mike said...

That there are Americans willing to cast their vote for this slime ball says a lot. An ambulance chasing slime ball, who was running on fixing the healthcare system. A system he raped to finance his lavish lifestyle.


And his wife Elizabeth whose profound lack of judgment is now on public display. First she chose to hitch her wagon to this slime ball. Then, on learning of a diagnosis of a terminal illness she chose to continue with the fool’s errand of a fourth failing campaign for high office instead of doing what is really important: spend as much time as possible with your young children and impart as much of yourself to them as possible, not knowing how much time you have left.


John and Elizabeth, both fools.

Mike said...

I posted on some website last year that John Edwards was an ambulance chasing slime ball. Someone replied that I would feel differently if he were chasing an ambulance on my behalf. I told the poster that more than likely he would be chasing an ambulance of someone I was going to help who was then going to turn around and sue me.


John Edwards was a phony through and through. If he was a good example of a Democrat, I want no parts of the Party! He campaigned against corporations while it was corporations that enriched him.


I hold Democrats in low esteem. The only party lower than the Dumbocratic Party is the Repugnant Party.

Leah Texas4Obama said...

McCain is even worse than Edwards.

McCain was cheating on his first wife with several women before their divorce.

McCain and Cindy applied for a marriage license BEFORE McCain's divorce was final.

Once a man cheats and lies - they always cheat and lie!

McCain is an adulterer and liar!

McCain is a warmongerer!

McCain is an old grumpy jealous man!

Obama/Sebelius '08

Beryl said...

I don't agree that Elizabeth is a fool at all. Sick people often don't always make decisions that are rational to those who are not.

Beryl said...

I agree, Leah.

If the DNC choses to make Edwards an issue, we need to revisit McCain's multiple indiscretions. Let's talk about that lobbyist again.

Beryl said...

Meant to say...

If the RNC makes Edwards an issue....

Vicki in Seattle said...

Hey, does anyone else here read the WSJ? I know it's a tool of the RNC/Foxnews/Murdoch/et al, but I do respect Peggy Noonan. Her article today was scary: she thinks that it's possible (not probable, not evey likely - but possible) that McCain could win.

I hope she's wrong; but she has a keen sense of political intuition.

It may be time for us to set our differences aside and UNITE.

Beryl said...

ITA, Vickie and have been saying this all along. We need work this campaign as if we can lose. We need to pull out all of the stops (no pun intended).

apissedant said...

beryl,
LOL

Agreed that we need to work together and work hard despite the appearance that it should be any easy win. I would much rather work too hard and win by a landslide, then not do any work and lose by a hair. We can't afford 4 more neocon years.

Aunt Jean said...

Rich (vtslayer) said...
Aunt Jean, please don't pull that pro-life shit here.

August 09, 2008 9:57 AM



To begin with I WAS NOT talking to you. I was commenting on what AP said. That is what is wrong with this world today is people like you and a few other that think they can tell people what to do and think. If I suggested you not say something because I believed it to be wrong you and a few others have a cow but let me make an innocent remark that I was teasing Ap about.

What happens, you make a VERY RUDE remark now I don't know who in the HELL you think you are but do not tell me that I can't make an innocent remark. QUICK BEING A JERK LIKE A FEW PEOPLE ON HERE.
I guess you got out on the wrong side of the bed.May I make a suggestion get back in bed and get out on the other side.
Jean

Aunt Jean said...

Rich (vtslayer)

Oh by the way no I don't believe in abortion!!!!! But who am I to tell someone else that they can't have one. I'm not the one that will have to face my maker for doing it. So if someone chooses to have one it's none of my business. Even though I think it's sad that
they think that is what they have to choose and no I wouldn't judge someone harshly just because they have one.Jean

Mike said...

Let’s examine Elizabeth Edwards’s judgment: She knew that her husband’s relationship with a campaign worker would disqualify him for the office for which he was running. Yet, she put the welfare of her children off and continued on the quest to help John secure the Democratic nomination. Suppose she had prevailed and John was not the nominee of the party. Where would the country be now? We would have to choose between McSenile and another skirt-chasing bubba. Did she even consider the interests of the Democratic Party when she tried her damndest to get her husband elected?


The country has already been through a skirt-chasing bubba in the Oval office. He got impeached! What are the odds we are going to elect another?

Aunt Jean said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Aunt Jean said...

Mike

BILL CLINTON DID NOT GET IMPEACHED!!!!!!!!!!!! Jean

Beryl said...

Not much play was given to McCain's Sturgis blunder. Everyone just laughs at how McCain didn't know that the Buffalo Chip pageant was a topless and sometimes bottomless contest.

http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2008/08/05/politics/fromtheroad/entry4320977.shtml
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4X6XqNeF1o
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YTh69_HPFU0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfF7YR6wFMQ

It is worse than that.

1. Why didn't he know about that contest? What does that say about his intelligence and those who he has hired to work for him?

2. What does that say about his judgment? Shouldn't he have investigated the type of gathering he attended before offering up his wife like that?

3. What does that say about what he will do to our young men and women who serve in the armed forces? Will he offer up their service and put their lives on the line before doing the appropriate research?

4. What does that say about what he will do for political gain? Will he make decisions without counting up the cost to US citizens?

What he did at Sturgis is a clear indication of how he would behave as our president. This is the discussion we need to have about McCain's recent behavior and it is not at all humorous.

Aunt Jean said...

Mike also his name is BILL CLINTON NOT BUBBA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!SA Jean

apissedant said...

Let comments you dislike roll off unless a very serious issue please. That goes to vtslayer, aunt jean, and anyone else. We all do not agree on all policy issues, or when life begins, or a million other things, but there is still no use in constantly fighting. We all agree that Obama is best for us and for our nation, and the current goal is to have him elected. The rest of those issues can be debated at length once we've achieved our first objective.

I am obviously not saying don't argue about anything by any means, since I am one of the most ardent supporters of having CIVILIZED arguments. Once an argument ceases to be civilized, there is no point in continuing it. It will no longer be reasonable or constructive. That's my opinion, and I had thought many on here had just agreed with that general principle, but the actions are not following suit.

suzihussein22 said...

This could give the desperado Reps. a 180 on their spin-

http://www.slate.com/blogs/blogs/trailhead/archive/2008/08/08/speaking-of-infidelity.aspx

I'm tired of the description of teflon on all the politicians though. There's been an obvious double standard in the msm the last couple of years.

Beryl said...

"Let’s examine Elizabeth Edwards’s judgment"

Sure thing, Mike.

After you've gotten cancer, gone through remission, and then have inoperable cancer resurface, let me know. Oh yeah, make sure you have a couple of minor children dependent on you too.

After I've expressed my sorrow for your situation, I'll be happy to review your examination of Elizabeth's judgment.

suzihussein22 said...

off topic-We found out one of my son's friend's name is Cheney. So my husband says to me, I hope his middle name isn't Dick. :-O

suzihussein22 said...

beryl-I give your recent response a star! I couldn't have said it better myself.

Mike said...

The whole reason for the long campaign for office, particularly the highest office in the land, is thorough vetting. The First Amendment places this job in the lap of the media. It is the job of the media to make sure the voter knows the candidate. They failed to vet John Edwards.


More often than I can to enumerate, I hear the MSM say: “The voters don’t know Obama.”
Instead of informing voters, the media merely repeat the talking points of different campaigns. I can’t get over the media saying to some low-information voter: “Obama claims to be a Christian, do you believe him?”


CLAIMS!


There is also a poster on this site who does not appear to understand what religion is. He, like most low-information Americans, thinks that religion is something you inherit from your parents. Although most people are too dumb, or lazy to choose their own religion and follow in the footsteps of their parents, religion is not a birth defect. It is an acquired illness. We are all free to choose our own.


Someone’s religion is what he says it is. It is not what his grandfather’s was. Besides every human has four grandparents. Why crucify someone based on one fourth of his ancestry?

suzihussein22 said...

peevish-Here's some off topic trivia about fatherhood-

http://www.redorbit.com/news/oddities/1513821/tuatara_to_be_a_father_at_111/index.html?source=r_oddities

I didn't do the tiny url since the link gives you an idea of what the story is.

Mike said...

Hello Aunt Jean. Bill Clinton most definitely got impeached. I watched every day of it. Chief among his accusers was Bob Barr, the current presidential nominee for the Libertarian Party. Your confusion stems from the fact that he was not convicted in the Senate and removed from office. But WILLIAM JEFFERSON CLINTON WAS IMPEACHED. That is a fact.

Leah Texas4Obama said...

Bill Clinton WAS impeached!

Former President of the United States Bill Clinton was impeached by the House of Representatives on December 19, 1998, and acquitted by the Senate on February 12, 1999. The charges, perjury, obstruction of justice and abuse of power arose from the Monica Lewinsky scandal and the Paula Jones law suit. The trial proceedings were largely party-line, with no Democratic Senators voting for conviction and only five Democratic Representatives voting to impeach. In all, 50 senators voted "not guilty," and 50 voted "guilty" on the obstruction charge. The Senate also acquitted on the charge of perjury with 55 votes cast as "not guilty," and 45 votes as "guilty." It was only the second impeachment of a President in American history, following the impeachment of Andrew Johnson in 1868.

Leah Texas4Obama said...

Definition of IMPEACH

1. To make an accusation against.
2. To charge (a public official) with improper conduct in office before a proper tribunal.

Aunt Jean said...

Leah I know what impeached mean I don't need you or anyone else to tell me what it means..Jean

Leah Texas4Obama said...

Impeachment is the first of two stages in a specific process for a legislative body to forcibly remove a government official. The second stage is conviction.

Leah Texas4Obama said...

Aunt Jean-

If you know what impeachment is then why do you say that Bill Clinton was not impeached when it is a historical FACT that he was?

Aunt Jean said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Aunt Jean said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Aunt Jean said...

Leah to say he was impeached is to imply that he was charged with a crime. He was never charged. They dropped it so drop it. Jean

Aunt Jean said...

Leah you are like a dog with a bone just don't know when to SHUT UP do you.Jean

Leah Texas4Obama said...

Aunt Jean-

He was CHARGED.

That is why there was the Impeachment TRIAL.

Leah Texas4Obama said...

Aunt Jean-

When people try to help you with FACTS when you are wrong you attack us. That is not very nice. The only way people grow is by learning.

Aunt Jean said...

Leah

Although the impeachment process succeeded at the level of the House of Representatives, without the Senate's confirming action in this matter, no further action was taken.

suzihussein22 said...

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/08/the-trouble-wit.html

My husband and I are also wondering, how many old USSR countries still have nukes lying around? Unfortunately Iraq, Iran, and Afghanistan aren't our only troubles.

Aunt Jean said...

Leah but you get so much pleasure from it. I don't need your help. Jean

Leah Texas4Obama said...

U.S. SUPREME COURT DISBARRED BILL CLINTON OCTOBER 1, 2001

----

Innocent people do not get disbarred ;)

Leah Texas4Obama said...

Aunt Jean-

No one said that Bill Clinton was not acquitted in the impeachment process. We said that he was impeached. He was brought up on charges which is what impeachment means.

We know you love Bill and Hillary but stating untruths about them here is not helping your cause.

If you expect everyone else to acknowledge that Obama is not perfect then you yourself shouldn't try to hide the fact the Bill is no angel either. Bill is no God!

Aunt Jean said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Leah Texas4Obama said...

Today...

National Gallup Tracking

Obama 47
McCain 42

Obama +5.0


Obama/Sebelius '08

Beryl said...

The fact that Clinton was impeached and disbarred for lying is what should bother us. Granted, Bill shouldn't have lied when asked about his sordid sexual affair but he should never been asked about it in the first place As long as he doesn't try to have sex with me or any other UNWILLING person, it doesn't concern me. I didn't like my hard-earned tax dollar going to that effort

OTOH, Bush lied about something that has resulted in over million deaths and he has not yet been impeached. He should impeached, tried, convicted, and imprisoned along with all of his cohorts.

If McCain continues keep his wagon hitched to Bush, he should go down with him.

Leah Texas4Obama said...

LOL ...

Aunt Jean, using your logic would be like saying that OJ Simpson was never 'charged' with the crime of murder since there was no guilty verdict.

OJ was CHARGED and Bill Clinton was IMPEACHED (charged). In both causes there was never a conviction. Just because there wasn't a conviction does not mean that charges were not brought against them.

If you can't understand what the meaning of 'impeachment' is then I guess there is no help for you!

Aunt Jean said...

Leah

since you think that you are so smart here your own words


Impeachment is the first of two stages in a specific process for a legislative body to forcibly remove a government official. The second stage is conviction.

Was CLINTON REMOVED FROM OFFICE [no] WAS HE CONVICTED {no] He was never convicted of it so really it doesn't mean a hill of beans.Jean

Leah Texas4Obama said...

Clinton says she wants Obama to win White House

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/08/08/clinton-says-she-wants-ob_n_117863.html

.

Beryl said...

Leah, give it up. You've been on DCW longer than I have and you've not learned which battles will never be won

Aunt Jean said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Leah Texas4Obama said...

Aunt Jean said: Leah
since you think that you are so smart here your own words

Impeachment is the first of two stages in a specific process for a legislative body to forcibly remove a government official. The second stage is conviction.
------

Yes Aunt Jean that is correct.
Impeachment is the FIRST of two stages.
Bill Clinton WAS impeached (the first stage).
There wasn't a conviction, so he wasn't removed from office.
No matter how you try to spin it - Bill Clinton was impeached and he attended his impeachment trial.

You are beating a dead horse.

Aunt Jean said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Leah Texas4Obama said...

Beryl-

It just bugs the heck out of me when people post untruths about something that is common knowledge.

Saying that Bill Clinton was never impeached is like saying that grass is pink!

LOL ;)

Leah Texas4Obama said...

Aunt Jean said...

Leah no really and truly he was not you are the one that is beating a dead horse just like you do everything else you are one sick human being. I hope you read my last post before I deleted it . Jean
-----------------

Aunt Jean-

Calling ME names is not going to help you prove your mis-statement.

Shame on you.

Leah Texas4Obama said...

I was hoping that with all the talk of Edwards' affair the media would bring up all of McCain's affairs, but the media seems to be staying away from that issue ;(

Aunt Jean said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Aunt Jean said...

Lean his impeachment doesn't mean a hill of beans like you implyed because he was never convicted. Plus the fact that it was none of their business who was blowing him.Jean

Aunt Jean said...

Lead adding ed to the end implies that he was convicted. He was never convicted he had impeachment charges against him which were dropped. So you are the one that needs to get the facts straight and quit implying that he was impeached [convicted] Jean

Leah Texas4Obama said...

Another Man Accused of Threatening Obama

http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/08/09/another-man-accused-of-threatening-obama/

.

Leah Texas4Obama said...

Lieberman donates $115K to DSCC

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/08/09/lieberman-donates-115k-to-dscc/

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Wow he'll really be on the democratic $hit list now!

suzihussein22 said...

It looks like iv's thread could come in handy for a little while. ;/

Leah Texas4Obama said...

Aunt Jean said...

Leah SHAME ON YOU THAT YOU WOULD DO AND SAY ANYTHING TO PISS SOMEONE OFF JUST FOR THE PURE PLEASURE. I DON'T LIKE YOU AND NEVER WILL BECAUSE YOU ARE ONE SICK HUMAN BEING. JEAN
------

I don't come here to piss anyone off. I don't come here to be liked or dislike. I come here to read about the election and the candidates and to state 'my opinion'.

I am not ashamed of anything that I post, so I am not the one that posts nasty things and then turns around and deletes them.

Like I previously stated Aunt Jean there is no reason for people on this thread to be calling other people names. Attacking people on this thread is against the rules, and it is also rude.

Now please go about your business and leave me alone ;)

OBAMA/Sebelius '08

Leah Texas4Obama said...

Barack in Hawaii: "Welcome home"

http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/post/stateupdates/gG5Kn3

---

I wonder if the press is going to let him have a relaxful vacation --- but I do hope some photos are leaked out :)

Leah Texas4Obama said...

Obama's topless Hawaiian beach photo from 2006

http://www.flickr.com/photos/77451171@N00/1297339484/

.

Leah Texas4Obama said...

Bikers May Love McCain But Veterans Do Not

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/deanie-mills/bikers-may-love-mccain-bu_b_117225.html

Along with voting against adequate troop rest or any end to the war whatsoever, McCain also

** voted against an amendment that would provide $20 million to the Department of Veterans Affairs (the VA) for health care facilities.

** voted against $430 million (mentioned above) for outpatient care and treatment of veterans

** voted against increasing veterans' medical services funding by $1.5 billion

** voted against creating a reserve fund to allow for an increase in veterans' medical care by eliminating abusive tax loopholes

** voted to TABLE an amendment by Senator Dodd that called for an additional $322 million for safety equipment for forces in Iraq and to reduce the amount provided for reconstruction in Iraq by that same amount

** urged other senators to TABLE a vote (which never passed) to provide more than $1 billion for National Guard and Reserve equipment in Iraq related to SHORTAGES in helmets, tents, bullet-proof inserts, and tactical vests

** voted against increasing the amount available for medical care for veterans by $650 million

Aunt Jean said...
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Aunt Jean said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Aunt Jean said...

Leah he is getting his law lic. back! I believe he already has the back since he could get them back in 2006. Jean

Aunt Jean said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Aunt Jean said...

Leah you are the one that attacked first. Oh I forgot you think you are right about everything and should be able to be as rude as possible but no body else has that right.

If you are here on this post for Obama that's great but you need to curb your rude remarks about Clinton.

I tried to get you to stop but no you kept grinding on it like an old dog with a bone.Then you have the nerve to blame me you need to look at yourself if you want to blame someone.

What a joke if you think you weren't rude to me. Jean

apissedant said...

soft and beryl,
100% agree with all of your posts between this one and my previous one. (Which had terrible English, must remember to proof read posts while also talking on IMs, phone, and watching tv.)

I thought we all agreed to ignore posts by Stop and Mike. Every time someone responds to them, it ends in a battle between several of us here. We are smarter and better than this. Grow up and ignore these stupid squabbles over irrelevant garbage stirred up by trolls. Just because he makes a few pro-Obama statements (or more anti-McCain statements really) does not mean he is magically on our side. Remember the lies and bigotry displayed earlier, and thus ignore the bait being offered up now.

Aunt Jean said...

Ap

I've vented and I feel better. Yes you are right I forgot about ignoring Mike.sorry! Jean

Beryl said...

Mike? Hmmm. I guess I missed him as being a troll. Now his stupid comment makes sense.

apissedant said...

beryl,
Yes, he is a troll. Just because he is more intelligent and better able to disguise his ruckus stirring posts does not make him any less a troll. Actually, it makes him more a troll.

Karen Anne said...

Mahmoud Darwish passes away. In his honor, his poem -

The Prison Cell
by Mahmoud Darwish
Translated from Arabic by Ben Bennani

It is possible
It is possible at least sometimes…
It is possible especially now
To ride a horse
Inside a prison cell
And run away……

It is possible for prison walls,
To disappear,
For the cell to become a distant land
Without frontiers:

-What did you do with the walls?
-I gave them back to the rocks.
-And what did you do with the ceiling?
-I turned it into a saddle.
-And your chain?
-I turned it into a pencil.

The prison guard got angry.
He put an end to the dialogue.
He said he didn’t care for poetry,
And bolted the door of my cell.

He came back to see me
In the morning;
He shouted at me:

-Where did all this water come from?
-I brought it from the Nile.
-And the trees?
-From the orchards of Damascus.
-And the music?
-From my heartbeat.

The prison guard got mad:
He put an end to my dialogue.
He said he didn’t like my poetry,
And bolted the door to my cell.

But he returned in the evening:

-Where did this moon come from?
-From the nights of Baghdad.
-And the wine?
-From the vineyards of Algiers.
-And this freedom?
-From the chain you tied me with last night.

The prison guard grew so sad….
He begged me to give him back
His freedom.

Vicki in Seattle said...

Karen Anne, that was beautiful. There is so much beauty in the world that I've never seen or heard, if I can experience just 1% before I pass away, it will have been a good life.

suzihussein22 said...

karen anne-Thank you for that posting.

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