Democratic Convention Watch: Open Thread

Tuesday, April 01, 2008

Open Thread

WE'VE MOVED! Democratic Convention Watch is now at http://www.DemocraticConventionWatch.com

What is McCain's latest "senior moment", what does Obama need to do to win in November or whatever else is on your mind.

And please be excellent to one another. We do not accept name calling or any attacks on our commenters. Any objectionable comments will be deleted. Try to be civil.

Thanks!

Previous Open Thread is here

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Aunt Jean said...: Rich

maybe not to you but there is a hech of a lot of people that do. Now if you want me to be honest I don't think Obama is that good. He's a lot better than some but I'm just not as impressed as some others].I believe his to be to rehearsed..[ no offense meant]

Personal I love listening to Hillary just like I'm sure you love listening to Obama. AJ; August 26, 2008 2:38 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Rich

that logic doesn't make sense to me. Why would the DNC vote for Biden they are not the ones that put him there Obama did. Maybe they don't like him who knows. But I don't believe for one minute that it would auto. be Biden I still believe that it would be Hillary in that case. Also as far as voting for a dead man come on get real. Not in a million years for the President of the United States. AJ; August 26, 2008 2:45 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: AJ -

This is August.
So that means for the rest of August, September, October, and the first week of November it will be Obama and Biden in the news everyday (not Clinton).

So, if something were to happen to Obama AFTER the general election in November .. then, in my opinion, the majority of people are going to be gravitating towards Biden - not some other person that has been out of the spotlight for over two months - also it will be Obama and Biden on the stump for the next two plus months in the public's eye. So that is something to keep in mind.; August 26, 2008 2:52 AM
Independent Voter said...: AJ, I think he's referring to: if all the deadlines in the states had passed (to change candidates) then they would automatically appoint Biden as the nominee.

I think both candidates at that point (Biden and Clinton) would both have valid arguments and then the DNC would ultimately make the decision.

Remember the Constitution requires the general election to take place the first Tuesday in November. Now that is of course, provided Bush doesn't declare martial law - which I still think is a possibility (I wouldn't put ANYTHING past that douchebag either.); August 26, 2008 2:57 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Leah

I would agree after the general election maybe but not before besides Hillary won't be out of the spotlight. AJ; August 26, 2008 3:00 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Seniority in the Senate

Biden # 6 of 100

Clinton # 68 of 100

If it came down between those two in December or January (after the general election) I would put my money on Biden ;); August 26, 2008 3:01 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Dave I would have to agree with you on douchebag. LOL LOL AJ; August 26, 2008 3:02 AM
Richard said...: AJ

1) You didn't say "I believe that Hillary is great at speaking" you said that other people (in particular Leah) had to admit that she was. We have to do no such thing. You are welcome to your opinion, but don't tell other people what to think.

2) The majority of the DNC are NOT Hillary supporters, and the DNC is led by Howard Dean. I do not see any way that the DNC would choose Hillary Clinton to succeed Obama. Moreover, Biden will have been nominated and voted on by the entire delegation this Wednesday, Clinton will not have. Moreover, he will be the chosen successor of our recently martyred party leader. Barring a new convention, Hillary would not be the candidate, however much this violates your sense of what is right and good.

3) You can say, "not in a million years" but that is the only option in that situation besides voting for John McCain. After that deadline the names appearing on the ballot would be John McCain and Barack Obama. I know whose bubble I would be filling in.

I agree it would be hard to stomach, but if the DNC made clear who his successor would be and with the likely swell of sympathy following any such disaster, I don't think it is beyond the realm of possibility. People have elected senators who were dead knowing who would be tapped to replace them.; August 26, 2008 3:02 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Leah you can put your money on Biden but I will put my money on Hillary. She is more President material. AJ; August 26, 2008 3:03 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Well, believe it or not I have listened to quite a few of Hillary's speeches. Toward the end of the primaries she was doing better than in the beginning, but 'not' when she is reading from paper and is not using her tele-prompter. Also, she had hired a drama/speech coach to help her - so apparently she needed help at some point.

THE PRIMARIES ARE OVER :)

Obama/Biden '08; August 26, 2008 3:07 AM
Aunt Jean said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; August 26, 2008 3:10 AM
Richard said...: No, Dave, I mean that if Obama were killed or became ineligible at any point between now and the election the DNC would choose Biden as his successor. As I explained to AJ above, I do not think that a DNC run by Howard Dean and what I would say is probably a clear majority of Obama supporters would choose Hillary Clinton over the chosen successor of a recently martyred hero.

Besides, can you imagine anyone giving Mrs. "We all know that Bobby Kennedy was assassinated in California" the nod?; August 26, 2008 3:10 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Goodnight everyone.

I am looking forward to Day Two of the convention tomorrow!

Everyone remember to watch it on C-SPAN without all the babbling pundits!

Obama/Biden '08; August 26, 2008 3:12 AM
Joshua said...: Have you heard the latest? If not, you will hear it tomorrow in Denver when the police gives their scheduled briefing.

Folks, it is all a lie! It is the same Republican dirty tricks. They pull the same fear tactics every election cycle. In 2004 they kept jerking the threat color level up and down and raised it immediately after the Democratic convention thereby blunting the post-convention bounce for Kerry. This time they are again using fear. Fear of assassination this time. And of course the typical American has an IQ of 85 and will fall for it again. That is right folks. The median IQ in America is 85 (100 means that you are mediocre).

I am very sad as to how stupid the American voter is. Every election cycle they fall for the same tactics. That is how the Republicans manage to win elections by getting the stupid voters to vote against their own best interest.

You just watch. The fear of assassination will cloud over the whole convention and there will be no post-convention bounce. Just watch and see.; August 26, 2008 3:12 AM
Aunt Jean said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; August 26, 2008 3:14 AM
Richard said...: I'm not sure why you are so upset, AJ. I am merely stating my opinion in as polite and clear a manner as I can. I don't know what about my disagreeing with your analysis and objecting to your assertion that everyone has to agree that she is makes me a "jerk." I am not the one making personal attacks and using profanity.; August 26, 2008 3:18 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Rich

Hillary was using that about Bobbie as a reference not about the other it's just idiots like you that made a mountain out of a molehill.There are plenty of people besides that Howard dean in the DNC and believe it or not [I really don't give a crap if you do are plenty of people that admire Hillary not like jerks like you they are fair mined and not as bigoted as you. AJ; August 26, 2008 3:19 AM
Independent Voter said...: AJ! Don't go after Leah, she gave Hillary a compliment! She stated that Hillary is best when she isn't reading paper or a teleprompter. Meaning Hillary is best when she is just being Hillary and speaking naturally.

---------

Rich,

I think the DNC would probably pick Biden, however I wouldn't be able to say that without a doubt. I still think both Biden and Clinton would both have valid arguments (depending on how far out of the convention it happened.); August 26, 2008 3:23 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Leah
I think you are seeing things if you say she reads from a paper. AJ; August 26, 2008 3:23 AM
Joshua said...: Speaking of the typical voter: Hello Aunt Jean. Are you still issuing threats to crush posters? At what time does your backing a losing cause stop being funny and start being pathetic? Aunt Jean, this may come to you as a surprise, but this convention is not about Hillary. Hillary lost. She lost fair and square. She was beaten by a better candidate. Get over yourself, you pathetic little worm.

Why do you keep posting at this site? Every other poster here backs Obama. Why don’t you find a pro-McCain/Clinton website?; August 26, 2008 3:23 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Dave one more thing it is Obama that reads from a tele prompter.AJ; August 26, 2008 3:26 AM
Independent Voter said...: AJ, don't let people get you so upset. There are those of us that will get on your nerves (and yes, I know I do at times too) but don't let it get to you. It's not worth it. Just remember that most people are simply stating their opinions just as you and I do. Try not to take everything that is counter to your opinion is a dig at you or Hillary. It is just their opinion.; August 26, 2008 3:28 AM
Richard said...: AJ - I don't mind your disagreeing with my, Aunt Jean, but I would like you to be respectful about it. On what grounds do you call me a liar (which is, to me, a very serious accusation).

Dave - I can see your point, but I don't think there is any chance they would choose HRC. Can you imagine the 527 groups constantly replaying her assassination misspeak and the Rush Limbaugh conspiracy theories? He's already got his audience believing she had Vince Foster offed...; August 26, 2008 3:29 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Dave you must not read the posts on here AJ; August 26, 2008 3:29 AM
Richard said...: Aunt Jean, I have not said anything insulting to you tonight. I have merely stated my opinion. It is you who have called me a liar, used vulgar language and even just insulted my mother. You owe me and her an apology.; August 26, 2008 3:31 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Rich it wasn't the republicians that made a mountain out of a mole hill it was fellow democrats.Why do I call you a lair because you sit there and say that you are not being insulting on purpose you liar!!!!!!! AJ; August 26, 2008 3:32 AM
Independent Voter said...: AJ, We've all seen her do it. Her "suspension" speech was a written speech that was on paper.

You are correct. Some speeches are on paper, some are on teleprompter and some are from memory (usually known as their stump speech.) Their stump speeches are the ones they give at every stop. Those are the ones they don't use any reference notes (as a general rule). Speeches, such as her suspension speech, was a prepared, written (on paper) speech.

Leah was simply stating that Hillary's speeches are better when she isn't reading. That's all. That is a GREAT compliment. When she gives her speech tomorrow night, she will be using the teleprompter, just as ALL the speakers did tonight (including Teddy).; August 26, 2008 3:34 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Dave

I'm sorry but I don't believe that you or most of the people on here listen to her that close to be able to tell if she is reading from a paper, tele prompter or what.. Oh by the way I did notice that you haven't said that Obama does any of those things. AJ; August 26, 2008 3:38 AM
Aunt Jean said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; August 26, 2008 3:39 AM
Richard said...: AJ - I did not claim that I was "not being insulting on purpose." I claimed that I am not being insulting at all. Nothing I have said tonight has been in any way insulting either to you or to Hillary Clinton. I have expressed my opinions about certain topics and respectfully disagreed with you.

You, on the other hand, have directly attacked me, used vulgar language, called me a liar, and insulted my mother.; August 26, 2008 3:44 AM
Mike in Maryland said...: Aunt Jean,

Speaking style means more than the words stated.

Speaking style also includes cadence, intonation, vocabulary, tone of voice, and other factors.

Imagine that you grew up with a person (a relative, neighbor, co-worker, etc.) who had a distinct speaking style, a person who hit you with a cane, slapped you on the face for no reason, ridiculed you at any and all times, or did other things that caused a very lasting, negative, memory.

Now imagine that a candidate had a similar speaking style as the person who gave you that negative memory. Even if you agreed 100% with the policies of that candidate, how long do you think you could listen to that candidate speak without the negative memories rising up? In such a situation, 'speaking style' could make you a political enemy of the candidate, not a supporter. It's not logical, but as Mr. Spock would say, "the emotions are not logical", but even he would have to admit that the emotions are real.

Now if you don't mind, you have an opinion about Ms. Clinton's speaking style, and others have a different opinion, and who knows why each has that opinion.

As a result, please stop the catty, some sometimes profanity filled, comments that you are directing towards other posters who make comments that are not meant to be an attack on you or your opinion, but are just a statement about having a differing opinion.

Or is it your intention to sow discord? Because, in my opinion, most of your comments tonight could appear to be with that intent.

Mike; August 26, 2008 3:45 AM
Independent Voter said...: Rich, I don't know. Hillary was a tough candidate. Beyond the deadlines (of names on the ballot) I would agree with you, but before then I don't know. The DNC very well could give it to her. Her and Obama were very close, considering where all the other candidates ended up. Now I'm not saying they would, I just think both Biden and Hillary would have good arguments to present to the DNC.

Even with the comment you referred to. Yes, I was one of the more vocal people about that comment, until she explained that she was simply using it as a reference in time.; August 26, 2008 3:46 AM
Independent Voter said...: AJ! You DON'T have to listen to her. YOU can SEE IT!

Watch this video and tell me she isn't READING or using cue cards! go to 8:30 or so. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zgi_kIYx_bY

Why do you think she looks down at the podium?; August 26, 2008 3:49 AM
Independent Voter said...: AJ,

I do believe that Obama gives his best speeches when he has a teleprompter. And I agree with Leah, that Hillary gives her best speeches when she is not. I'll let you know tomorrow after I hear her speech. She will be using it, I can GUARANTEE it. If she is looking straight into the camera, she is using it. They have 3 of them. One directly in front of them, and one on either side. So when they look to the sides, yes, they are still reading.; August 26, 2008 3:52 AM
Richard said...: Dave, I don't disagree that there would be valid arguments for each to make. I'm not making a statement about their relative merits as candidates, but about the likelihood that a political body like the DNC which is firmly in the grips of Howard Dean and Obama supporters (having just wrested control from the Clintons after 16 years) would turn itself over to Hillary.

The majority of the DNC does not like Hillary, and the Rules and Bylaws committee has already proved to be firmly in the hands of Dean/Obama. Howard Ickes can argue all he wants, but when it comes down to a vote he's going to be on the losing side.; August 26, 2008 3:53 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Dave yes on that speech maybe but that is probable the only one. But you still don't admit that Obama uses a tele prompter. AJ; August 26, 2008 3:55 AM
Independent Voter said...: Rich, I think you are probably right on that, but I've been surprised before. Just as I was surprised at the outcome of the RBC meeting.; August 26, 2008 3:57 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Rich there are a lot of people in the DNC that thinks Howard Dean is an idiot. As far as there being very few people that like Hillary you are about one simple man that lives in LA LA land AJ; August 26, 2008 3:58 AM
Richard said...: Aunt Jean, saying that Hillary Clinton sometimes uses a teleprompter or reads from paper is NOT an attack on her, so there is no need to "admit" that Barack Obama uses one. You appear to be the only one here who thinks that reading a speech is a sign of weakness as a speaker and who refuses to admit that her hero does it. Stop projecting your own silly hangups on other people.; August 26, 2008 4:01 AM
Independent Voter said...: AJ look at my 3:52 posting. His speech in Philly "A More Perfect Union" was a teleprompter. His speech to AIPAC was a teleprompter. His speech to La Raza was a teleprompter. We ALL know he uses a teleprompter.

John McCain although he sucks at it, uses a teleprompter.

Obama's speeches, when using a teleprompter, in my opinion are his best. Hillary's are not. Hillary's are best when she is NOT using a teleprompter or reading a prepared speech.

Now on the same token, Obama does NOT use a teleprompter for his "Stump Speech", just like MOST other candidates. The stump speech once again are the typical speech they use at every speech. After doing that speech for the 5-10th time, they have it fully memorized and no longer require to use their notes.; August 26, 2008 4:02 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Dave does people think that he's so perfect that he doesn't.

You know it's amazing that you have fools on here that when you ask someone else a question that they have to answer for them.

That they are so full of themselves that they think that they have the answer to everything when all I see them as is jerks and nosy. Liar....AJ; August 26, 2008 4:06 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Dave thank you. yes you are right McLame sucks at it. AJ; August 26, 2008 4:07 AM
Independent Voter said...: Ok AJ, I'm getting tired (physically and about the whole teleprompter/written speech) and apparently you are too. Just don't let this get to you. Don't take everything as a personal attack on you or on Hillary, because it's not.

For me, I love giving speeches, but if I don't have notes or some form of prompt, I'm toast. I don't do improptu speeches very well, and MOST people don't. As Joe Biden! LOL! Barack America.....LOL; August 26, 2008 4:08 AM
Richard said...: AJ - again you insult me, calling me simple. Would you please stop your personal attacks on me?

I did not say that there were "very few people that like Hillary." What I said was that a majority of the DNC does not like her and would not vote for her. Whatever you might think, the DNC has not been in Hillary's control for almost four years, now. Howard Dean is the chair because a majority of DNC members elected him, and he controls the party apparatus and purse strings. He also controls the RBC, which has already voted against Hillary once and would likely be the body to decide succession if the need arose.; August 26, 2008 4:08 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Dave

I can understand this:

Obama's speeches, when using a teleprompter, in my opinion are his best. Hillary's are not. Hillary's are best when she is NOT using a teleprompter or reading a prepared speech. AJ; August 26, 2008 4:09 AM
Mike in Maryland said...: Aunt Jean,

STOP THE CATTY COMMENTS.

NOW.

PLEASE

Mike; August 26, 2008 4:09 AM
Independent Voter said...: You're welcome AJ. Relax, get some rest....tomorrow's Hillary's BIG DAY! I can't wait to hear what she has to say. It is after all the anniversary of woman's suffrage in the US of A.; August 26, 2008 4:10 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Rich I do believe that as soon as Howard can be he will be voted out so want you are saying is full of holes. AJ; August 26, 2008 4:15 AM
Richard said...: AJ - I am still waiting for you to apologize to my mother.; August 26, 2008 4:17 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Mike In Maryland what about Rich are is it because he's a man. He's been an insulting jerk but I guess that is all right.I'm getting no I've had my fill of it. AJ; August 26, 2008 4:17 AM
Independent Voter said...: Goodnight all. Everyone get some rest, there is going to be a lot to talk about tomorrow. Hopefully John Stewart's tongue lashing at the MSM did some good (I doubt it, but one can hope can't they?); August 26, 2008 4:18 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Rich

when you apologize to me I will apologize to your mother. AJ; August 26, 2008 4:18 AM
Richard said...: AJ - what have I said tonight that is insulting? You are the one who is making personal attacks. I challenge you to name a single insult I have made tonight. I do this with perfect confidence, because I haven't said anything remotely insulting!; August 26, 2008 4:19 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Rich this is insulting

You appear to be the only one here who thinks that reading a speech is a sign of weakness as a speaker and who refuses to admit that her hero does it. Stop projecting your own silly hangups on other people.

I find insulting:
do not believe that Hillary is a great speaker. In fact, I find her wooden and strident and her modulation generally fails to reflect any real emotion. Generally I cannot stand to listen to her speak.

I find insulting considering I was more or less joking with Leah:
) You didn't say "I believe that Hillary is great at speaking" you said that other people (in particular Leah) had to admit that she was. We have to do no such thing. You are welcome to your opinion, but don't tell other people what to think.

Ifind insulting:

Besides, can you imagine anyone giving Mrs. "We all know that Bobby Kennedy was assassinated in California" the nod?

I find insulting:

The majority of the DNC does not like Hillary, and the Rules and Bylaws committee has already proved to be firmly in the hands of Dean/Obama. Howard Ickes can argue all he wants, but when it comes down to a vote he's going to be on the losing side.

Some of these I find more insulting than others but to me they are all insulting. AJ; August 26, 2008 4:38 AM
Richard said...: Let me expand that challenge: can anyone here make a rational argument that I said anything remotely insulting to Aunt Jean tonight? I really would like to know, because it seems to me that the only one here who's been insulting is the one who has called me "jerk" "simple" "son of a bitch" and "liar."

Mike In Maryland - I would say one thing: while I don't disagree with most of what you said to Aunt Jean, I do take issue with your use of the word "catty," which is one of those negative words of dubious status because it is used almost exclusively of women. You do yourself a disservice and invite accusations of sexism (which I do not believe of you) when you use words like that.; August 26, 2008 4:40 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Rich

it's not so much of what you say it's the fact that you correct me on what I say even if you don't understand if I'm joking or serious.

I believe it was you but I could be wrong. I'm not like you in thinking everything I say is right or I wouldn't have apologized to Karen Anne for something she said and I took it the wrong way. but anyway someone said dont't push your pro life BS on here. Well it was an just a remark I didn't mean anything by it.To begin they didn't even know if I was pro life or pro choise [by the way I'm a pro choise even though I think it's sad and I couldn't have one but I don't have the right to tell someone else to not have one.

You don't know what I believe but you and a few others on here are always jumping my butt and I'm tired of it. AJ; August 26, 2008 4:54 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Rich

I don't know if your mother is like you are not but she hasn't insulted me but you have in my eyes but that doesn't give me a right to insult her so yes I do apologize to her. AJ; August 26, 2008 4:57 AM
Richard said...: AJ - I will respond to each of your points in turn:

I will pass over your first quote until the end, but will respond to it there.

I do not believe that Hillary is a great speaker. In fact, I find her wooden and strident and her modulation generally fails to reflect any real emotion. Generally I cannot stand to listen to her speak.

This is a statement of my opinion. It was not an attack on you, nor was it an attack on Hillary Clinton. It is merely an analyisis of a public figure's speaking style and a statement of fact about my own reaction to it.

I find insulting considering I was more or less joking with Leah:
) You didn't say "I believe that Hillary is great at speaking" you said that other people (in particular Leah) had to admit that she was. We have to do no such thing. You are welcome to your opinion, but don't tell other people what to think.

I am not sure what it is in this that you find insulting. I objected to what I saw as a very presumptuous remark; if you did not intend it that way, you were well within your rights to correct me respectfully. This would not, however, mean that I was being "insulting" but merely that I misinterpreted an ambiguous remark.

Besides, can you imagine anyone giving Mrs. "We all know that Bobby Kennedy was assassinated in California" the nod?

This is a bit of political analysis based on my estimation of the psychology of those on the DNC and the potential fallout of Sen. Clinton's remark. It was not aimed at you, did not mention you, was not in response to anything you said. In what way does this insult you?

The majority of the DNC does not like Hillary, and the Rules and Bylaws committee has already proved to be firmly in the hands of Dean/Obama. Howard Ickes can argue all he wants, but when it comes down to a vote he's going to be on the losing side.

Again, I was merely offering political analysis. If you disagree, fine; it is not an insult, however.

The above statements, it seems to me, are not insults at all but merely opinions with which you disagree. We all have opinions; I do not take your opinions of Barack Obama, many of which I disagree with as personal attacks on me. I do not think it is right or fair for you to take my statements of my opinion as personal insults directed at you.

Now, as promised, I will respond to the first quote you included (which I will note is the only one you labeled as "This is insulting" rather than "I find this insulting."

You appear to be the only one here who thinks that reading a speech is a sign of weakness as a speaker and who refuses to admit that her hero does it. Stop projecting your own silly hangups on other people.

First of all, this comment was made well after you had complained that I was being "insulting" and launched into personal and very offensive attacks on my using real insults and vulgar language. It cannot, then, have been what you initially found to be insulting. Still.

I assume that you are objecting to the phrase "silly hangup." I do not believe that I was incorrect in saying that your hypersensitivity to the idea that Hillary might on occasion read her speeches represents a hangup, nor do I think that it is "insulting" to point that hangup out to you. If you think that it is insulting to call that hangup "silly," I apologize; still, I think it so.

--

Now, let's put up some hypothetical facts for consideration

Person A does the following:

1) Possibly misinterprets a statement made by person B and objects to it.

2) Writes several comments expressing his opinions, thoughts, and analysis of political matters with which person B disagrees.

3) Says that person B appears to have a "hangup" about a certain topic and calls that hangup silly.

Person B does the following:

1) Repeatedly calls person A a "jerk."

2) Repeatedly called person A a "liar."

3) Calls person A an "SOB."

4) Calls person A "simple."

Which of these hypothetical persons can reasonably be said to have been insulting?; August 26, 2008 5:28 AM
Mike in Maryland said...: Aunt Jean,

When you see a message that you think is an attack on your or undeserved attack on an opinion you hold:

It might behoove you to first read the message, then read it again, then read it again.

Don't skim the message - READ it, EVERY word of it.

Then after you have read it, do not respond until you think about what was stated. Don't think about it for a few seconds, but for several minutes.

Then compose your response. Review your response. Then read the original message again and compare what was stated with what you wrote.

Then read the messages AGAIN - both the message that you are responding to, and then your response.

The purpose of doing all that?

To force yourself to try to understand what the person wrote, to review what you wrote and correct spelling errors and to insert words that you left out when you originally the response.

Then read the message and your response again, and then think about whether your response will contribute to the conversation. If it won't, don't post.

Sometimes people say things in the rush to get in a 'smart attack' or quick rebuttal. However, what happens many times is that words are written that later the author realizes were not appropriate.

If you had followed the above procedure, would you have had to apologize to Karen Anne? Would you have made offensive comments about Rich's mother?

If nothing else, following the above procedure might allow your posts to be more lucid and understandable, and you have the opportunity to finish your thought prior to posting the message. For instance, what does "I'm getting no I've had my fill of it" actually mean?

Mike; August 26, 2008 5:37 AM
Richard said...: I read your apology after I had posted my lengthy reply to your previous post. I thank you for your apology and accept it on my mother's behalf.

As you say, AJ, I don't know you or what you think. However, you would do well to stop taking expressions of contrary opinion as personal insults, especially if you are going to continue to post on political forums where you are likely to encounter people who do not think like you.

One more note: it was I who objected to comments by you which seemed to me straight out of the pro-life playbook. I have strong opinions on the right of a woman to choose, and I object to people making statements which seem to me to be sympathetic to the pro-life slippery-slope argument that life begins at conception. Still, I should not have responded to you as I did, and for that I apologize.; August 26, 2008 5:40 AM
Mike in Maryland said...: Rich (vtslayer) said...
I do take issue with your use of the word "catty," which is one of those negative words of dubious status because it is used almost exclusively of women.

Rich,

My use of the word 'catty' was used in this sense: Subtly cruel or malicious; spiteful.

Some may see it as used 'almost exclusively of women.' I don't, and never have.

However, in the future I'll try to substitute other words, such as snide, backbiting, toxic, evil, hateful, malicious, poisonous, mean, nasty, spiteful, venomous, malignant, etc., some or all of which might be descriptive of many of the words that Aunt Jean used in many messages in the last few days.

Mike; August 26, 2008 5:50 AM
Doc Pickles said...: Open Thread EV Contest

304

My guess is Obama takes NH, MI, NV, CO, VA, NC, AK and McCain takes FL, OH, MO, IN, NV. Just a guess.

It would be great if Obama won in North Carolina and Virginia, wouldn't it? For some reason I think he'll also take Alaska. I think McCain will win in Ohio and Nevada but it will be close.

Hope everybody's having a great time, eating right, keeping their chin up. So far so good!

Tonight is the symbolic passing of the baton from Ted Kennedy to Hillary. She's going to be a major player for 20 years running the Senate.

I hope Hillary is still a senator when America elects its first woman president and she can be there to see it happen.; August 26, 2008 8:31 AM
Doc Pickles said...: Mike in Maryland those are all adjectives you might want to take a pass on! You know, change election, stay positive, rise above namecalling, yes we can, etc.

Save those negative adjectives for Steve Schmidt, Randy Scheunemann, Rick Davis and rest of the McCain team. You'll need them!; August 26, 2008 9:57 AM
Richard said...: Mike in MD: would you really have used the word "catty" if I had made the same comments Aunt Jean did? I find that hard to believe. I understand that you did not think of it as a sexist term, but have you ever heard anyone refer to a man as "catty"? This is the insidious nature of sexist language: it causes us to perpetuate stereotypes not because we ourselves are sexist, but because the language itself is.; August 26, 2008 10:43 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Rich

not to keep this going but I dont think you took everything I said in all posts into consideration.

My point is this: everytime I say anything about anyone that is a democrat. Most people not all has to point out that my words deserve no merit.

Like the fact that I don't like Howard Dean, Nancy Pelosi, and there are plenty of people in every aspect of life that doesn't like them.

A lot of you talk like Hillary has no merit. The fact that you don't like her shouldn't have an effect on giving her merit when she deserves it [yes deserves it]. You act as she is hated by the people well she got more votes than Obama and I don't care what anyone says . That speaks volumes. Are people backing Obama sure they want a democrat in office but let me tell you something if Hillary had a chance to be president they would dump the Obama party so fast.

It's not Obama that they would be voting for it's the DEMOCRAT PARTY.

You say that the DNC the bigger percentage dislike Hillary they may or maynot. But when it comes down to it they would pick the person that they think would win.

Now I'm not saying that Biden isn't good but he's not that pop. they except him and root for him because Obama picked him. If you think that the DNC would pick him over Hillary you must think that they are pretty supid. Biden has lost in a lot of things according to someone on here. Now for Hillary she has only lost this primary with the BIG, HUGH, HELP OF THE MEDIA. i DON'T CARE WHAT YOUR PERSONAL OPINION ON THAT IS.

HILLARY WOULD GET IT I BELIEVE BECAUSE THERE IS 18 MILLION PEOPLE THAT THOUGHT SHE WAS BETTER THAN OBAMA. NOW CAN YOU REALLY SAY THAT THERE IS MORE THAN THAT , THAT LIKE OBAMA..I DON'T BELIEVE YOU CAN BECAUSE AS FAR AS I KNOW THERE IS NO OFFICE OR ANYTHING ELSE THAT HE HAS RAN FOR THAT HE'S HAD MORE THAN 18 MILLION VOTES FOR HIM.

END OF STORY!!!! AJ; August 26, 2008 11:13 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Oh Canada

Good morning. You said this at around 8:30 this morning.

I hope Hillary is still a senator when America elects its first woman president and she can be there to see it happen.

Of course she will be there because she will be the one being elected... AJ; August 26, 2008 11:19 AM
Doc Pickles said...: That would be fine with me! She'll have stickhandled universal medicare through the Senate by then.

Clinton/Sebelius 2016!

I have a little daughter and it was a really good feeling to explain to her that Hillary was one of the people who was running for President. She'll grow up now thinking it's no big deal what gender the candidate is.; August 26, 2008 12:04 PM
Richard said...: Aunt Jean, when you express an opinion with which I disagree do I not have the right to express my disagreement? If it seems to you that I disagree with you at every turn, it is not because I have any great interest in bringing you down or suggesting that you have no merit; it is merely because I disagree with nearly everything you say on this board. I do not get angry at you because you say it, but I will disagree when you do.

As for the probable succession question, I am not sure what you think to accomplish by repeating the same arguments in all-caps (which is very rude). I did not find your arguments persuasive the first time; why should I find them more so if you shout them? To be more specific, I do not think popular votes would matter any more in this decision than they did in the original nomination (i.e., not at all) for the reasons I stated above (i.e., that that decision would be made by a Dean/Obama-controlled DNC). I gave several reasons for thinking that they would decide in favor of Biden, including considerations of realpolitik, psychology, and my analysis of the loyalties of the DNC. Why not try answering my arguments rather than shouting at me?; August 26, 2008 12:06 PM
Doc Pickles said...: I believe "stickhandled" is a Canadian word for "quarterbacked" or "dribbled"? Dang me where's my Amero-Canadian dictionary?; August 26, 2008 12:08 PM
Richard said...: Oh Canada, you're right about the translation of the metaphor into non-hockey-playing American. The only problem with your metaphor is that Hillary Clinton is not even a member of the Democratic leadership. It is Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid, and their respective whips who will be shepherding the legislation through the process. Hillary Clinton will no doubt have a lot of input in the drafting of the legislation, but getting it passed will not be her job or her accomplishment. :-); August 26, 2008 12:14 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Oh Canada

now this would be a hellva ticket:

Clinton/Sebelius 2016

But sadly to say I can't see it happening because of men like the ones that post on here [except maybe AP and Dave] there are several that have no respect for women of course they will deny it but to me that is how I see it.AJ; August 26, 2008 12:23 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Rich

I guess according to you that they would be stupid enough to put someone in there that would have a better chance of losing. Even I don't think they are that stupid. Besides Dean, Reid, and pelosi don't own the DNC. Get real!

So you say that I have no merit to the things I say well maybe I'm not merited enough to vote for Obama. Since you seem to think I'm so foolish in my words. AJ; August 26, 2008 12:30 PM
Aunt Jean said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; August 26, 2008 12:33 PM
Aunt Jean said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; August 26, 2008 12:34 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Rich

no you might not get angry but just insulting: Aunt Jean, when you express an opinion with which I disagree do I not have the right to express my disagreement? If it seems to you that I disagree with you at every turn, it is not because I have any great interest in bringing you down or suggesting that you have no merit; it is merely because I disagree with nearly everything you say on this board. I do not get angry at you because you say it, but I will disagree when you do.

It's not a matter of you thinking you or insulting or not it's the person reading your insulting posts. That's what matters!!!AJ; August 26, 2008 12:41 PM
Karen Anne said...: AJ,

Hillary did not get more votes than Obama, unless you count Michigan, where he had graciously removed his name from the ballot. Any reasonable projection of his votes there from exit polls still leaves him ahead.

Meanwhile (I lost the link) it looks like the cretins with guns in Denver will get off on just gun charges, i.e. be walking the street quite soon. When does anyone remember a White President being threatened and the individuals responsible not winding up behind bars for decades. I can't remember an instance involving a candidate before.; August 26, 2008 12:42 PM
Richard said...: So you say that I have no merit to the things I say well maybe I'm not merited enough to vote for Obama. Since you seem to think I'm so foolish in my words.

*sigh* Again you distort what I said. What I said is that I disagree with you, that I have every right to express that disagreement respectfully, and that you should not feel insulted merely because I do so. It is true that I disagree with nearly everything you say; what of it? There is room for disagreement as long as it is respectful, as I have been and you have not.

As for the matter of succession, you have yet to offer any rational counter argument to any of my points, apparantly preferring instead to dismiss with sarcams and dismissive statements like "get real." Why don't you take the time actually to respond to people rather than dismissing them?; August 26, 2008 12:43 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Rich

well in your eyes you think I'm rude for using caps I don't. I believe you to be more than rude by your use of words. You have an ego about the size of Texas. Which is quite funny to me. AJ; August 26, 2008 12:44 PM
Beryl said...: Ugh!

The Republicans are playing to HRC supporters'
1. emotions (disappointment, fears)
2. prejudices

This was the Republican game plan from the beginning:

Hope the Democratic primaries become very divisive and last a long, long time. Once it is done, go after the supporters of the losing Democratic candidate.

If HRC was the party's nominee, they would have shown her no mercy. She would have been humiliated with everything they would have said about her and her husband.

They also would have played up to key Obama supporters: the youth, minorities, and independents. You would have seen how Maverick McCain cares about their issues and how HRC doesn't.

Why don't some HRC supporters see this and allowing themselves to be played for fools?

THE REPUBLICANS DO NOT CARE ANYTHING ABOUT YOU OR HILLARY CLINTON! THEY ONLY WANT YOUR VOTE AND WILL SCREW YOU WHEN ELECTED!; August 26, 2008 12:44 PM
Richard said...: Again, Aunt Jean, I have not said anything insulting! All I have done is express my opinions on political matters, opinions which neither mentioned you nor were targeted at you. Why does you find disagreement insulting?; August 26, 2008 12:46 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Rich

you asked why : As for the matter of succession, you have yet to offer any rational counter argument to any of my points, apparantly preferring instead to dismiss with sarcams and dismissive statements like "get real." Why don't you take the time actually to respond to people rather than dismissing them.

Maybe I believe you to not have enough merit. Considering you think I don't so why should I waste my breath. You believe yourself to be not rude or insulting. I believe you to be rude and insulting. End of story. AJ; August 26, 2008 12:48 PM
Richard said...: Aunt Jean, using all-caps is universally considered rude on the internet. It is the equivalent of shouting at someone in real life, and refraining from it is a staple of 'Net etiquette. Google it if you don't believe me. It's incredibly rude.; August 26, 2008 12:48 PM
Richard said...: Aunt Jean, why do you find disagreement rude and insulting?; August 26, 2008 12:51 PM
Aunt Jean said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; August 26, 2008 12:54 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Rich

I will say this to explain part of the reason I say what I do.

I was brought up to believe if you can't say anything nice about someone don't say anything at all. Have I broken that rule yes. But at least I don't break it everyday except in my defence of someone.

All you seem to be able to do is try to bring people down if that is not rude and insulting I don't know what is. I stand corrected all you want to do is bring me down with I believe to be rude and insulting remarks.AJ; August 26, 2008 12:56 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Rich

why because it is all the time it gets so old!!!! AJ; August 26, 2008 12:57 PM
Aunt Jean said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; August 26, 2008 12:57 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Rich

do you think I'm so stupid that I don't know that using caps is rude. Unlike you when I'm rude I admit it to which I was being rude. AJ; August 26, 2008 1:00 PM
Richard said...: So if I understand you correctly, Jean, expressing any negative opinion about anything is rude and insulting? If I say that I do not like Senator McCain because I find him belligerent and spiteful, or if I say that Vladimir Putin is a ruthless tyrant I am being rude and insulting? Or is it only if I express opinions unfavorable to certain people you like that it becomes rude? Do you not see the hypocrisy in this? Everyone has the right to his opinion; the mere fact that you disagree with it does not make its expression offensive.; August 26, 2008 1:01 PM
Richard said...: I quote: "well in your eyes you think I'm rude for using caps I don't."

What about that is admitting that you were being rude? It sounds to me like a complete denial.; August 26, 2008 1:03 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Beryl

do you think I do not know this but I also believe that Hillary is a whole lot smarter than McCain and she would have beat him at he low dirty tricks.AJ; August 26, 2008 1:03 PM
Beryl said...: Rich,
You can continue to argue with AJ or give up. She will never let go of her position no matter what evidence you provide.

AJ,
People know your hot buttons and will press them just to get you riled up. You can allow yourself to be manipulated like that or let it go. It is your choice.

We don't need Stop, Yam, or Mike to divert this thread from what it should be about:

Stop the Republicans from retaining control of our Executive Branch of Government

Inside bickering is just as effective. It all makes sense though. Internal squabbling appears to be the nature of the Democratic Party. It is why we are having troubles wrapping up this presidential election.

I've been Independent for 16 years until October 2007 so all of this bickering is new for me.; August 26, 2008 1:05 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Rich (vtslayer) said...
I quote: "well in your eyes you think I'm rude for using caps I don't
h

I don't see this if it's there it's a typo. AJ; August 26, 2008 1:06 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Beryl

I do agree with you but it does get old being treated like dirt and what I say has no meaning [as in being foolish] by some of the men that post here.After all I am human and can take only so much!

Not that you are most of the women on here has treated me that way. [got to add Dave and AP to that list] LOL AJ; August 26, 2008 1:11 PM
Richard said...: Jean, check 12:44. You said it. If you claim that it was a typo, what exactly what it supposed to have been other than a denial that using all caps was rude?

Jean, I've had enough of this. I will continue to express my opinions about whatever political topic or person I care to without regard to how it will make you feel. If you are so paranoid that you interpret any negative thing said about your hero Hillary Clinton as a persnal attack on you, I cannot be held responsible.

I just ask you to be civil: to refrain from the use of all-caps, not to call me a liar or a jerk, not to use vulgar language, and not to say rude things about my parentage. If you wish to disagree with me, do so, but please don't call me rude just for having and expressing an opinion.; August 26, 2008 1:13 PM
Beryl said...: "do you think I do not know this but I also believe that Hillary is a whole lot smarter than McCain and she would have beat him at he low dirty tricks.AJ"

OK. Let's see her use her smarts to beat him now. She has 18 million people (actually less than 9 Million since 52% already support Obama) to sway. She needs to stop her supporters from being fooled by Repugs who don't care about them.

I'm looking forward to seeing her work her magic over the next couple of months.; August 26, 2008 1:13 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Beryl

she will it just will take longer on some. AJ; August 26, 2008 1:14 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Rich

I was just trying to make a point. It's not what I really believe. AJ; August 26, 2008 1:16 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Got to go everyone things to do.Talk to you all later. AJ; August 26, 2008 1:17 PM
Richard said...: I must go, too. Meetings are about to start. Ugh, can you hear the pounding of teenage boys' elephant feet? School is starting!; August 26, 2008 1:20 PM
Vicki in Seattle said...: what Beryl is trying to say: if you are not voting, or voting republican, because the candidate you prefer is not on the ballot, then that really is cutting off your nose to spite your face.

the republicans WANT to see this convention all farked up. seriously.

and Canada, I think the word you are/were looking for, is along the lines of "bulldozed", or something like that, no?; August 26, 2008 1:29 PM
Beryl said...: Exactly, Vicki

Howard Dean was my guy 4 years ago but he didn't win. No way was I going to support the idiot Bush so I voted for Kerry.

Every vote counts and this election is even more important. If McCain gets in, our economy may never recover. There will be more wars (McCain will see to it) and associated death.; August 26, 2008 1:44 PM
Doc Pickles said...: AJ - My politics are all pretty 21st century, but I am "men"! At least I was last time I checked. It's a compliment that my political views might lead you to believe otherwise though.

Okay kids now today is get-along-with-Aunt-Jean day. As Dave Barry said today in a very funny column today:

This year there is high drama in the Mile High City as the Democrats gather under their official 2008 convention slogan: ``A Unified Party, United in Unity Together As One, Undivided.''

http://www.miamiherald.com/living/columnists/dave-barry/story/655722.html; August 26, 2008 2:34 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Oh Canada-

What on earth are you talking about - Kennedy passing the torch to HRC?

Teddy Kennedy has already passed the torch to OBAMA - and there is only one torch ;); August 26, 2008 2:53 PM
Beryl said...: Leah,
I interpret that as passing the endorsement torch since she is next up. (A stretch, I know, since Michelle was the next to speak.); August 26, 2008 3:12 PM
Doc Pickles said...: I'm trying to find a polite and positive way of saying "please stop running for president until 2016 and enjoy a long productive stint as a Senator" and I was thinking of the parallel between this convention and 1980.; August 26, 2008 3:25 PM
tmess2 said...: Don't necessarily want to re-open last night's topic, but in talking about the DNC folks seem to have been talking about the current DNC.

Under party rules, the terms of the DNC members from the states ends at the convention. I do not know enough about the politics in each of the states to know which members got re-elected and which members are stepping down (voluntarily or involuntarily). I know that some members were not re-elected in some states. Without a full list of the new DNC, it is impossible to predict what the new DNC will do on any particular issue.

(I assume that the associational representatives are on a different time frame and can be replaced at any time.)

p.s. Does anybody have a list of the new committeemen and committeewomen from the states and territories?; August 26, 2008 4:50 PM
Mike in Maryland said...: CNN is reporting that the U.S. ambassador to the United Nations, Zalmay Khalilzad, is under fire for allegedly interfering in internal Pakistani politics. Khalilzad has been having several unauthorized discussions each week with Asif Ali Zardari, the widower of former Prime Minister Benazir Bhutto and a possible contender to succeed Pervez Musharraf as president of Pakistan, and thus giving the appearance of not staying neutral in the upcoming Pakistani election.

Article at:
http://cnnwire.blogs.cnn.com/2008/08/26/us-ambassador-to-un-under-fire

With the track record of the Shrub administration, this type of bone-headed, idiotic and stupid action doesn't surprise me. After all, most of the Shrub appointees are not qualified to be dog catcher, let alone conduct the affairs of a government. Can anyone think of a Shrub appointee who WAS qualified to do the job they were appointed to?

I wonder what McLame(brain) thinks of Khalilzad's actions. He probably approves of them.

Mike; August 26, 2008 5:38 PM
Mike in Maryland said...: Some interesting observations and comments by Dan Balz in today's Washington Post on Teddy's speech last night.

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/08/26/kennedy_passes_his_torch.html?hpid=topnews

Mike; August 26, 2008 6:34 PM
Karen Anne said...: Beryl,

I think this bickering is new. I know I have never seen anything like it, even though, of course, the supporters of the losing candidate have always been disappointed.

That is one of my gripes with Hillary. She has fed this, to the detriment of the party, both during her campaign and even now in parallel with the good stuff she is doing. A real leader would not have run a campaign that way, and would have gotten her supporters behind the nominee afterwards.

Plus she would have told Bill to put a sock in it.

Can you imagine Howard undermining Kerry? No.; August 26, 2008 6:43 PM
Karen Anne said...: I keep hoping for a Teddy miracle, but this sounds like he is much worse off than one might think from his two public appearances -

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/27/us/politics/27kennedy.html; August 26, 2008 6:51 PM
jean said...: mike in maryland,
Be careful that you do not fully explicate on your definition of "interesting" or you may be land blasted.
My experience.
jean; August 26, 2008 7:05 PM
Mike in Maryland said...: jean said...
mike in maryland,
Be careful that you do not fully explicate on your definition of "interesting". . .

Possibly tempting fate (VBG), what I meant by the word 'interesting' above was that the information and comments in Balz's article makes me think of the possibilities of what could have happened in the past if certain actions had been taken, and also in the future, depending on what actions will be taken and by whom.

Mike; August 26, 2008 7:28 PM
jean said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; August 26, 2008 7:32 PM
Independent Voter said...: Jean, what else is Obama supposed to do? He has had fundraisers to help retire Clinton's debt. He has given each of them their own time at the convention. He praises them, EVERY chance he gets, but nothing seems to be enough. I know that some supporters are still bitter toward Hillary, but some of her supporters (especially her 'wealthy' donors) don't make it easy. I read an article today of one of her "HillRaisers" (which I think is a stupid name - but hey it works for them) is holding out because she wasn't chosen as his running mate. It's ridiculous. These wealthy donors of hers believe that she is "entitled" to the nomination and "entitled" to be chosen as his VP (if she isn't given the nomination).

That is the only problems that I have left with the Clinton's and it's not necessarily even the Clinton's it is their "wealthy" donors who feel that they deserve some form of title like "chief financial sponsor" or "Chief former Hillraiser now "Chief Obamaraiser".; August 26, 2008 7:48 PM
Independent Voter said...: Here's the article I was referencing:; August 26, 2008 7:51 PM
Karen Anne said...: iv,

Plus some of the big ticket Hillary donors are upset because they don't have Obama campaign titles like Hillraiser. (Rolls eyes towards ceiling.)

Words fail me about the level of childishness those people are displaying. Why is Hillary a magnet for people like that all across the financial spectrum? Who knew we had that many people like that?; August 26, 2008 8:11 PM
Karen Anne said...: Yet another Hillary supporter helps the Democratic Party. And this jerk has a speaking spot, if memory serves me correctly -

The Page: "Gov. Rendell compares Obama to Adlai Stevenson, says Democrats are 'nervous as all get out.'"; August 26, 2008 8:17 PM
jean said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; August 26, 2008 8:18 PM
Beryl said...: "Plus she would have told Bill to put a sock in it."

Yep. She would have had my vote at the caucus if she had.

"Can you imagine Howard undermining Kerry? No."

No way. Once he lost, it was over and he went on to lead the Dems.

Regarding Teddy - he is amazing!; August 26, 2008 8:33 PM
Independent Voter said...: Jean, I understand where you are coming from and like I said, I don't hold too much of a grudge against the either of them. I've pretty much let it go, but those like the one in the article I posted.....as far as I am concerned, she can go pound sand because in my mind she is doing a HUGE disservice to both of the Clinton's.

And I also agree with you that Bill will probably go down in the history books as one of the best presidents, but you have to remember that the time that we are in now will also be recorded in history and may not play so well for their chapter in those history books. I have the feeling this "Hillraiser" is simply looking for her 15 minutes of fame. I could be wrong, but by here and others like her are also doing Hillary no favors.

I'm seriously NOT trying to bash Hillary or her supporters (especially the ones on here, like you and AJ), it is those holdouts that feel their sense of entitlement of having an "official title" within the campaign etc.; August 26, 2008 8:42 PM
suzihussein22 said...: jean-I think you'll have to try harder than that to bug me. :)

I have been disappointed in how WJC SEEMS to have acted part of this year. But then again, I haven't been able to view all of his interviews.

I have been impressed with how HRC has attempted to get her supporters and delegates to support Obama, based on what I've been able to read and see on video clips.

I am VERY DISAPPOINTED in how msm distorts their stories to get the dough, joe. I don't think it's very many dems that are still protesting the nomination. I even saw a headline on what pantsuit HRC will wear tonight. STUPID AND DIVISIVE! Which is what whill keep things stirred up, or at least appear that way. Msm seems to be trying to create the stories, not report on them.; August 26, 2008 8:48 PM
jean said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; August 26, 2008 8:51 PM
Richard said...: Gotta love the no-name politicians who get their opportunity to speak at the convention. The mayor of Fairbanks? WTF?; August 26, 2008 8:57 PM
jean said...: Suzi,
Good luck with the school year.
Hopefully your daughter can use those boots before she grows out of them LOL.
I'll be checking in.
jean; August 26, 2008 8:57 PM
Independent Voter said...: Jean, you're not leaving us are you?; August 26, 2008 9:12 PM
Independent Voter said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; August 26, 2008 9:13 PM
Peter Zenger said...: Wow. I had really been rooting for Sebelius to get the VP nod. That speech was so very underwhelming. Sec. Pena is having so much more of an energetic speech. Biden will even take things to the next level. The great thing about the convention is that by showcasing everyone, it really helps you get past your regrets.; August 26, 2008 9:15 PM
Independent Voter said...: suzi, you are right, that is a stupid headline.

I do however hope she wears the cream/white one she wore earlier when she was checking out the teleprompters earlier today. It looked really good on her.; August 26, 2008 9:17 PM
jean said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; August 26, 2008 9:19 PM
Independent Voter said...: Peter, I haven't seen Sebelius' speech yet. But I did see part of Rendell's speech and UGH! I'm SO glad he wasn't chosen as VP.

On a brighter note....if anyone didn't get a chance to see Dennis Kucinich's speech, Check it out! It was FANTASTIC!; August 26, 2008 9:20 PM
suzihussein22 said...: iv dave-It did look good on her, but don't you usually wear darker clothes at night? Not that I'm a fashion plate. If it's soft, I like it.; August 26, 2008 9:22 PM
Independent Voter said...: jean, we're gonna miss you around here :(

Ya, school doesn't start for me until next Tuesday :( I wish it had started already.

Take care, and put some weight on those kids of yours :)

I still don't envy your grocer bill.; August 26, 2008 9:22 PM
Independent Voter said...: suzi, it's indoors......LOL And inside the Pepsi Center I have the feeling that the lighting isn't real bright. As far as wearing dark clothing at night, nah.....it's whatever you feel most comfortable in. ;)

Don't ask what I usually wear at night.....VBG!; August 26, 2008 9:24 PM
Mike in Maryland said...: "U.S. Attorney: Threat against Obama not 'operational' "

So a threat is not credible because the perps are meth-heads? WTF???

How many people have been harassed by the Secret Service and the U.S. Attorney just because they had a bumper sticker against the War on Iraq? Or made fun of Cheney?

The U.S. Attorney in Denver is a Bush lackey and toady. I'll be so glad when they're told to clear out their desks and leave the office next January.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/08/26/obama.threat/index.html

Mike; August 26, 2008 9:33 PM
Richard said...: Thanks for the link to Kucinich's speech; I missed it while my wife was watching America's Got Talent. Sometimes in marriage one must compromise. At least I get Warner and Clinton uninterrupted. ;-); August 26, 2008 9:34 PM
suzihussein22 said...: iv dave-I think she'll look better than Ms. McCain...and the thought would never cross my mind. VVBG :D; August 26, 2008 9:38 PM
suzihussein22 said...: m in md-Unfortunately I'm not surprised that the threat wasn't going to be taken seriously. It's more than a shame. At least today I heard one more co-worker speaking positively about the dems and the convention.; August 26, 2008 9:44 PM
Independent Voter said...: No problem Rich - I thought he did a great job.

I never did see Sebelius' speech. I'm disappointed, because my DVR has caught up and I didn't see anything from Sebelius. :(

LOL suzi.; August 26, 2008 9:48 PM
Richard said...: Well, this is no Obama in '04, is it? They should have given Kucinich this speech.; August 26, 2008 9:49 PM
Matt said...: We'll have an open thread up on the main page for Clinton's speech tonight. It will go live around 10:20 or so.; August 26, 2008 9:54 PM
Independent Voter said...: So I hear McDouchebag sent his wife to Georgia (the country). I also saw that she visited displaced citizens (which everyone is falsely claiming them to be refugees - if they are within their own country's boundaries they are displaced, if they are outside of the country's boundaries they are refugees.)

Anyway, I hope she doesn't steal any kids....er....I mean drugs.....er.... oh the hell with it, I hope she doesn't steal anyone or anything while she's there.; August 26, 2008 9:57 PM
Independent Voter said...: Rich, I'm not real impressed with Mark Warner either. Very uninspiring.; August 26, 2008 9:58 PM
Independent Voter said...: Thanks for the heads up Matt.; August 26, 2008 9:59 PM
Richard said...: I was so ininspired by Warner that I let my wife turn it back to America's Got Talent. Ugh.; August 26, 2008 10:10 PM
Independent Voter said...: ROFLMAO rich!; August 26, 2008 10:11 PM
Independent Voter said...: And I'm laughing so hard because AGT is one of the worst shows on the air.; August 26, 2008 10:11 PM
Independent Voter said...: And I'm laughing so hard because AGT is one of the worst shows on the air.; August 26, 2008 10:11 PM
Beryl said...: Now I see one reason Warner didn't get the VP slot.; August 26, 2008 10:12 PM
Independent Voter said...: TOTALLY agree beryl.; August 26, 2008 10:14 PM
Independent Voter said...: For the SECOND time in my life, I find myself agreeing with Pat Buchanan.; August 26, 2008 10:15 PM
suzihussein22 said...: rich and iv dave-ROFL :D

matt-Thank you.; August 26, 2008 10:17 PM
Matt said...: clinton open thread is posted - be nice!; August 26, 2008 10:18 PM
Independent Voter said...: Ok, so BEFORE Clinton even goes on, check this out. AP has already put out an article about her speech. http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080827/ap_on_el_pr/cvn_convention_rdp; August 26, 2008 10:27 PM
Beryl said...: I like Schweitzer! He is cool. Take him on the stump with you, Obama!; August 26, 2008 10:27 PM
apissedant said...: Bob Casey was way worse that Mark Warner.

Mark Warner didn't use any of the overplayed phrases like, "John McCain promises more of the same." I'm tired of hearing that eight times every speech. Mark Warner spoke the truth and said good things. So he didn't make an enormous attack or have a truly quotable phrase... who cares? He governs well... what is really more important? These speeches are prewritten, and the speakers are just reciting them. Would you rather have a good actor or a good legislator/governor/president? Would you rather have a guy you'd like to have a beer with, or a guy that will make sure you have a job so that you can afford the beer?

I thought his speech was good, but definitely not great. The words were much better than his ability to convey them. It was completely in character for him to stay above the personal attacks. Joe Biden is the attack dog, and he will attack John McCain more than enough tomorrow. Barack OBama is a great speaker, and he will more than inspire us all in two days.

Mark Warner just spoke the truth and set a positive tone, that seems useful to me too.; August 26, 2008 10:31 PM
suzihussein22 said...: C-SPAN just cut out on me. What's a girl to do with the "media of tomorrow" as they were mentioning on HuffPo today?; August 26, 2008 10:42 PM
Richard said...: Dave, the irony is not lost on me, believe me.; August 26, 2008 10:48 PM
Independent Voter said...: WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!! What an incredible job she did tonight. If ANY of her holdouts remain holdouts, I don't think there is anything that will get them to come around.; August 26, 2008 11:10 PM
Independent Voter said...: Rich, I just found it odd that they would even put an article out before the event took place. Why not just wait?; August 26, 2008 11:11 PM
Independent Voter said...: suzi, I'm sure it will be on Obama's site again.; August 26, 2008 11:12 PM
Beryl said...: Sniff, sniff - that was a beautiful speech by HRC!

Where are the Jeans?; August 26, 2008 11:17 PM
Richard said...: Just out of curiosity I flipped over to Fox to get their reaction. Were they watching the same speech I saw on C-SPAN?; August 26, 2008 11:19 PM
Beryl said...: What did Fox say? I don't let their garbage into my house.; August 26, 2008 11:21 PM
Beryl said...: Keith O. (my man) is lavishly praising her speech.; August 26, 2008 11:23 PM
Unknown said...: Great speech by Hillary.

Doesn't matter.

McCain 2008 Hillary 2012; August 26, 2008 11:23 PM
Richard said...: Fox News pundits are of the opinion that her speech was stinting in its endorsement of Clinton and all about her. They see it as setting herself up for 2012. WTF?; August 26, 2008 11:26 PM
Independent Voter said...: beryl, they are taking their talking points from the McDouchebag campaign. Their headline? "McCain Camp: Hillary Clinton didn't address Obama's experience."

Bill Kristol (Reich-wing troll) - "she didn't say much about Obama. It was all about her." Of course that is a paraphrase.

I couldn't take it anymore....LOL; August 26, 2008 11:27 PM
Independent Voter said...: Exactly Rich - What a bunch of idiots. I wonder if FAUX and CNN are going to have Democrats doing the commentary for the Republican convention like they are allowing Republicans to call the shots regarding the Democratic convention.

I won't hold my breath.; August 26, 2008 11:29 PM
Mike in Maryland said...: But Dave,

Don't you know that Faux claims that it DOES have a Democrat on air?

Alan Colmes.

Personally, I'd rather they have NO Democrat on than that pathetic excuse for a partisan Democrat.

Mike; August 26, 2008 11:35 PM
Karen Anne said...: I didn't see any of tonight. I imagine it will be available as video all over the place soon.

As to Sebelius, I thought I read in various articles about her when she was being considered for VP that she was not a good speaker?; August 26, 2008 11:35 PM
Independent Voter said...: Jean and AJ, WE MISS YOU ALREADY! ;); August 26, 2008 11:38 PM
Independent Voter said...: MinM,

I hear ya. Alan Colmes is such a waste of human flesh let alone a Democrat/Liberal.

He grew a temporary spine when the Edwards affair was exposed but it quickly dissolved into sand shortly thereafter.; August 26, 2008 11:40 PM
Karen Anne said...: iv,

What a great speech from Dennis. Thanks for the pointer -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4EN7ibO1ec

Jean is going away?; August 26, 2008 11:44 PM
Richard said...: I used to listen to Alan Colmes when he was the "equal time" following Rush on my local talk radio station. I don't know what happened to him.; August 26, 2008 11:44 PM
Independent Voter said...: Karen Anne, ya, she said earlier that she would check in every now and then, but I think the infighting was too much. I wish she would have waited until after tonight :(; August 26, 2008 11:50 PM
Independent Voter said...: Rich, he was fine when he was on the radio because it was just him. But on H&C he is a wimp and doesn't stand up for himself or his party. He just lets himself get trampled on by Hannity.; August 26, 2008 11:51 PM
Vicki in Seattle said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; August 26, 2008 11:58 PM
Vicki in Seattle said...: OBAMA/BIDEN OBAMA/BIDEN OBAMA/BIDEN OBAMA/BIDEN OBAMA/BIDEN OBAMA/BIDEN OBAMA/BIDEN OBAMA/BIDEN

2008!!!!!!!!!!!!; August 27, 2008 12:01 AM
Vicki in Seattle said...: Personally, I thought she was well spoken, and did what she needed to do to urge her supporters to step up. I hope others see it similarly.

(previous comment erased because of a wretched typo); August 27, 2008 12:02 AM
Unknown said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; August 27, 2008 12:03 AM
Vicki in Seattle said...: dangit, I *had* my whole "Obama/Biden" thing at the top of this page, and then a post about three posts back got deleted and it got pulled back onto the previous page.

OBAMA/BIDEN IN 2008!; August 27, 2008 12:09 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Lots of good stuff in the speeches today:

1) 4 more months not 4 years

2) (Schweitzer) Drilling in McCain's backyards and even in the ones he forgot he owns

3) (Hillary) Bush and McCain in the TWIN cities; August 27, 2008 12:09 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: For those that were wondering..

Clinton speech a work-in-progress until the last minute
Posted: 11:09 PM ET

From CNN Correspondent Jessica Yellin

DENVER (CNN) — Hillary Clinton's speech was a work-in-progress until the last minute, a Clinton aide tells CNN: speech-writers pulled an all-nighter and rushed it into the teleprompter. The video tribute to the New York senator was also a last-minute affair, and barely got done in time.

Tonight's speech was written by Lissa Muscatine, Jim Kennedy and chief speechwriter Jon Lovett, working closely with long-time Clinton advisors Maggie Williams and Cheryl Mills.; August 27, 2008 12:17 AM
tmess2 said...: Anyone have any returns out of Alaska tonight? Am wondering if the Republicans renominated our two favorite felons in waiting.; August 27, 2008 12:36 AM
Mike in Maryland said...: tmess2 said...
Anyone have any returns out of Alaska tonight?

According to the Alaska Div. of Elections, polls close at 8:00 pm local time.

Most of Alaska is in the Alaska Time Zone, which is GMT minus 8 hours (EDT is GMT - 4 hour, Pacific is GMT - 7). Part of Alaska is in the Hawaii-Aleutian Standard Time Zone. HAST does not observe DST, so it is GMT - 10 hours.

In other words, when it is 1:00 am EDT, and 10:00 pm PDT, it is 9:00 pm ATZ and 7:00 pm HAST.

I don't know if the results will be held until all polls close, or reports will come out as the ballots are counted after local closing.

Mike; August 27, 2008 1:01 AM
Mike in Maryland said...: tmess,

I found a site (APRN) that will report the votes as they are reported, expected to begin about 9:00 pm Alaska time, meaning at any time.

Site is:
http://aprn.org/2008/08/26/live-election-coverage-on-aprn-stations-tonight

Mike; August 27, 2008 1:06 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: I think Hillary's speech will help bring in a lot of new Obama supporters but NOT the die-hard PUMAs. I was just over on the PUMA site and they are over there posting delusional stuff. They are posting about her body language etc. and some of them think she is still going to be President this year!

I don't think there are enough PUMAs to worry about, and if they want to vote for McCain - it is their right to do so. So, now it is time for the media to just stop giving them free airtime.; August 27, 2008 1:11 AM
Independent Voter said...: Currently Ted Stevens is ahead with 64% of the vote

http://www.elect.alaska.net/data/results.html; August 27, 2008 1:15 AM
Mike in Maryland said...: With just over 31% of the precincts reporting:

Senate:
Begich with 85% of the Dem vote
Stevens with almost 64% of Rep vote

November will be Begich vs. Stevens!

House:
Berkowitz with more than 56% of the Dem vote
Young with 45.71% of the Rep vote, and
Parnell with 45.47% of the Rep vote

That translates into about a 92 vote difference at this point, so it will probably be a nail biter to the finish.
Mike; August 27, 2008 1:16 AM
Independent Voter said...: Leah, Agree 100%; August 27, 2008 1:16 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Karen Anne

yes Hillary did get more votes than Obama.AJ; August 27, 2008 1:18 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Open Thread EV Contest

JayW - 269
Beryl - 280
Hippolytus - 289
Dilbuck - 290
softspoken22 - 298
Emma - 300 (1)
Aunt Jean - 300 (2)
SarahLawrenceScott - 303
Richard - 304
jean - 311
Mike in Maryland - 312
tmess2 - 315
RobH - 317 (1)
apissedant - 317 (2) — (O-68m/M-60m)*8
Oregon Dem - 332
Leah - 345 — (O-69m/M-50m)*19
Woodland Sprite - 360
Emit R Detsaw - 429
Independent voter - 538
suzi - (51.5% pop. vote)
Oh Canada - 304

Everyone can add an Obama pop.vote number and McCain pop.vote number rounded off to the nearest million - the last number (*) is the margin. Or just a pop.vote or margin # if you wish to do so.
___________________________
2004 General Election Popular vote
Bush 62,040,610
Kerry 59,028,444; August 27, 2008 1:21 AM
Mike in Maryland said...: Aunt Jean,

Can we agree to disagree on who got how many votes in the primary, and just drop the argument? After all, there are many ways in which each side could state their candidate received X number of votes and their candidate's opponent received Y number of votes.

In the end, it was not the total votes cast in the primaries for one candidate or the other that determined who got the nomination, but who got the most delegate votes. And on that count, there is no reasonable way in which anyone could argue that Senator Obama received fewer delegate votes than Senator Clinton.

Mike; August 27, 2008 1:24 AM
tmess2 said...: for an early popular vote guess will say Obama 65 to McCain 58.

Should be interesting to see how Stevens campaign when the news for the last several weeks before the election will be his trial. Even if a jury finds that he didn't commit any crime, he is going to look very very sleazy.; August 27, 2008 1:29 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Karen Anne I disagree with this statement : That is one of my gripes with Hillary. She has fed this, to the detriment of the party, both during her campaign and even now in parallel with the good stuff she is doing. A real leader would not have run a campaign that way, and would have gotten her supporters behind the nominee afterwards

I personally think this is what Obama did not Hillary! AJ; August 27, 2008 1:40 AM
Independent Voter said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; August 27, 2008 1:44 AM
Independent Voter said...: AJ, I know that it is your opinion that Obama is the one that created the party divide, I differ with you in that opinion. But as to be respectful I am going to just simply say that we have differing opinions on that matter. Especially after the terrific speech (which she read from a teleprompter) she gave tonight.; August 27, 2008 1:48 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Mike In Maryland

I see you asked me to drop with the Hillary got more votes than Obama. I would be glad to but it seems to me that Karen Anne doesn't want to drop it but of course you didn't ask her to stop just me. AJ; August 27, 2008 1:49 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Dave

I didn't see a teleprompter but I guess they all do. AJ; August 27, 2008 1:51 AM

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