Democratic Convention Watch: Open Thread

Tuesday, April 01, 2008

Open Thread

WE'VE MOVED! Democratic Convention Watch is now at http://www.DemocraticConventionWatch.com

What is McCain's latest "senior moment", what does Obama need to do to win in November or whatever else is on your mind.

And please be excellent to one another. We do not accept name calling or any attacks on our commenters. Any objectionable comments will be deleted. Try to be civil.

Thanks!

Previous Open Thread is here

9481 comments:

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Independent Voter said...: p'd ant - things are going well. However the daytime events, such as badminton (I'm still trying to figure out how that ever made it to be an Olympic sport), archery, etc. I find to be quite boring. Give me gymnastics and diving and I'm all over it.

Jean,
WOW! That was one of the best comebacks I have EVER seen (the 400m relay). That was unreal.; August 11, 2008 1:11 PM
Independent Voter said...: Ok, who the hell let George out of his cage?; August 11, 2008 1:17 PM
jean said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; August 11, 2008 1:20 PM
apissedant said...: Dave, that is a simple matter of fact, not Clinton bashing, and I doubt anyone would mistake it for anything else. I always assumed Edwards dropped out to make sure that he didn't topple Obama's chances. I've also heard some theorize that he stayed in until South Carolina in order to give SC to Obama. Those are some theories I've heard. Add that to the fact that prior to Clinton dropping out or an Edwards endorsement, many Edwards delegates had already switched over to Obama.; August 11, 2008 1:21 PM
jean said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; August 11, 2008 1:23 PM
apissedant said...: but what about Giuliani? He has been a scumbag forever, and he still walked away unscathed. The infidelity and corruption problems only seem to stick when they happen to Democrats.; August 11, 2008 1:23 PM
apissedant said...: Economic reasons behind recent successes in Iraq:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/08/10/AR2008081002512.html?hpid=topnews; August 11, 2008 1:29 PM
jean said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; August 11, 2008 1:30 PM
Independent Voter said...: AJ, I agree to an extent. Whether she dealt with it quickly or not, it would still have been a major story in the media. Think about how the media went nuts when Chelsea was asked. Neither Bill or Hillary addressed the issue at that point. So I'm not sure that they would have dealt with it.

-------

p'd ant - ya I remember much later after he withdrew from the race that he wish he had not done so. I just think that Obama would have won Iowa by a much larger margin had Edwards not been in the race.

Anyway, it's just my thoughts.; August 11, 2008 1:31 PM
jean said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; August 11, 2008 1:34 PM
Independent Voter said...: LOL Jean, I would NEVER babysit George. I would throw the damn key away and make sure that nobody would have access to him.

I would threaten to kill myself, but that wouldn't save anyone else from the misery.; August 11, 2008 1:36 PM
Independent Voter said...: jean, no I meant AJ, because I have read the comments from the past couple of days when everyone went ape sheeeeit on each other, AGAIN!; August 11, 2008 1:37 PM
jean said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; August 11, 2008 1:39 PM
apissedant said...: Dave,
I told you what happens when you're not here to moderate. Then you leave. Who is to blame? ;); August 11, 2008 1:39 PM
apissedant said...: Dave,
The best part about the Bush/flag picture is his daughter's face! She's like, "is my dad really that dumb!?!?"

Yes, yes he is.; August 11, 2008 1:41 PM
Independent Voter said...: You are probably right that he has been on the couch for quite some time.

I think that the reason McCain's infidelity to his first wife has not really been brought up is simply because over the past few years, it has become mainstream for our hypocritical Republican politicians to be the ones who are sleeping around. I think that Dems generally have the tendency to get more of a pass on sexual infidelity is because they don't run on the a platform of being sexual prudes like the Republicans do. The dems (at least since the 60's) haven't really run based on the Republican mantra of "family values" (whatever the hell that means nowadays) so much as they have personal choice and freedom.; August 11, 2008 1:43 PM
Independent Voter said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; August 11, 2008 1:44 PM
Independent Voter said...: p'd ant - was that his daughter? I couldn't make out who it was, I just thought it was just another on-looker thinking to herself "why and how did I have to get stuck sitting next to this dumbass?!?!?!?!?"; August 11, 2008 1:51 PM
jean said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; August 11, 2008 1:58 PM
apissedant said...: That's definitely his daughter, I recognize her nose.; August 11, 2008 2:07 PM
apissedant said...: http://img.slate.com/media/1/123125/123090/2133846/2154282/061204_RM_bushTwinsEX.jpg; August 11, 2008 2:08 PM
apissedant said...: http://cache.boston.com/resize/bonzai-fba/AP_Photo/2008/08/11/1218438092_9743/539w.jpg; August 11, 2008 2:09 PM
Beryl said...: I think the Edwards votes in Iowa is a toss up and likely leaning toward Obama. We'll never know about that for sure.

Edwards is just arrogant and figured that he'd get away with his dirty deeds. Others have so why not him?

The problem is not just Edwards' sex outside of marriage but that he LIED about it. The LIES are what is causing the our nation ruin. Millions of dollars spent to impeach a president for LYING. A million innocents dead because of our current president LYING about Iraq.

I don't want to preach to y'all but this is why lying (along with pride) is considered the WORSE sin in the Bible. The consequences for lying is throughout the scriptures.

We really have to stop the lies. Edwards should have 'fessed up when confronted and moved on. Didn't the current governor of NY confess his infidelities straight away? Obama published books confessing his misdeeds and that was brilliant. Nobody is perfect but we need to be truthful. Yes, he inhaled -- 'nuff said.

If he gets caught in a lie, I'll be all over Obama too. (I'm not talking about changing his mind. We all have that right.); August 11, 2008 2:18 PM
Independent Voter said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; August 11, 2008 2:18 PM
Independent Voter said...: p'd ant - You could be right.; August 11, 2008 2:20 PM
Beryl said...: "The best part about the Bush/flag picture is his daughter's face! She's like, 'is my dad really that dumb!?!?'"

LOL! I hadn't noticed that. Hilarious and true!; August 11, 2008 2:23 PM
apissedant said...: agreed beryl,
Lying is the one thing I can't stand as well. I may not like the truth, but I will HATE finding out the truth AND that you lied. Now you did something stupid, and I can't trust anything you said. Not cool.; August 11, 2008 2:34 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Good afternoon Dave,Jean Beryl, and Dave

How are yaw today? Jean; August 11, 2008 2:59 PM
apissedant said...: Dave gets two and I don't get one?; August 11, 2008 3:02 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Ap SORRY i meant to put your name last by not least LOL LOL !!!!! Jean; August 11, 2008 3:13 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Sorry Guys and Gals

This is just for AP

GOOD AFTERNOON SUNSHINE!!!!!

AP that is a real compliament. That is what my mental retarded little sister calls all animals. They love her and she loves them it's really sweet. Jean; August 11, 2008 3:17 PM
Aunt Jean said...: I guess Bush needs lessons on how the flag goes the dumb dodo. Jean; August 11, 2008 3:19 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Dave someone doesn't have to agree with me all the time.Plus they don't have to like just show alittle respect . Jean; August 11, 2008 3:20 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Dave your 1:09 pm post am I going to have to whip your butt. LOL LOL. All joking aside I might not always agree with you but I also know that what you are saying is not out of malise just your what you think. That's different. Jean; August 11, 2008 3:24 PM
Independent Voter said...: Hello AJ. I understand what you mean, but like I said, I leave and everyone seems to go ape sheeeeit. LOL!

Anyway, I'm doing well. Just watching the Olympics and enjoying most of it. I've been putting gymnastics and diving on disk. That is one of the reasons I haven't been on (the DVR will only hold so much.); August 11, 2008 3:26 PM
Aunt Jean said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; August 11, 2008 3:27 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Ap

I just reread my post about why sunshine I don't think that you are an animal. LOL Jean; August 11, 2008 3:27 PM
Independent Voter said...: AJ, I'm glad you realize that I wasn't bashing them and that I had a real question on the issue. Although I still think it would have had the effect that I outlined, but of course we will never know.; August 11, 2008 3:28 PM
Independent Voter said...: LOL AJ. Sure he is. LOL; August 11, 2008 3:29 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Dave

those are two things that I like also. I wish that I was that limber [use to be not anymore]Those was the good old days. LOL.

Yes I know what you mean about going Ape shit. Jean; August 11, 2008 3:31 PM
Beryl said...: I was laughing with Randi Rhodes today.

Dems always have simple sex scandals -- a man has sex with a woman who is not his wife. OTOH, Repuglicans have sex with children, with strangulation, with drugs, watermelons, etc.

LOL!

She is so right.

If McCain doesn't get out of the gutter with his attacks, we need discuss his trash. That old dog has some history, y'all.; August 11, 2008 3:31 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Beryl

are you saying that democrats are boring.I have you to know that I am not boring. LOL LOL Jean; August 11, 2008 3:34 PM
Independent Voter said...: I agree too p'd ant. Unfortunately there are also some dems who have had their indiscretions with individuals under 18 like Barney Frank (YEARS ago) and Gerry Studds.; August 11, 2008 3:46 PM
Independent Voter said...: AJ, I used to be in gymnastics, but I ended up getting too tall for the sport (6'3) - about a foot too tall and then got too thin. I dropped out permanently at 16 because I broke both ankles on a double-back dismount off the high bar. I still go every now and then to do some tumbling on the floor exercise, but only for fun now. 2 years ago, one of the coaches asked me if I wanted to compete again......ON THE "SENIORS TOUR". UGH! I could NOT believe he said that. Yes I know it just means those who are retired but still want to partake, but UGH, ME, a senior? How insulting! LMAO!

You be quite over there in the peanut gallery p'd ant.; August 11, 2008 3:50 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Dave

those men are sick: indiscretions with individuals under 18 like Barney Frank (YEARS ago) and Gerry Studds. Jean; August 11, 2008 3:51 PM
Aunt Jean said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; August 11, 2008 3:56 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Dave

just because you are over a foot taller than me doesn't mean that you get to call me a peanut senior. now who's LTAO. If you don't know what the T stands for it"s their. LMAO But there is one question what would they consider me at the RIPE age of 55? Jean; August 11, 2008 3:57 PM
Independent Voter said...: AJ, I do agree and believe they should have at the very least waited another year until they boys turned 18 (not that it would be any less troubling).

But one thing about it however, is that many gay teenagers have a very difficult time finding someone (especially back then) that they could open with about their sexuality. The main problem that I had was that these two men should have been more of a mentor or and older brother figure (no matter their ages, 16, 17 or even 18) for them as opposed to sexually exploiting them.; August 11, 2008 3:59 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Dave I see you wasn't calling me peanut you where talking to AP just my luck LOL Jean; August 11, 2008 3:59 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Dave

you are so right about the boys. Jean; August 11, 2008 4:01 PM
Independent Voter said...: AJ, I don't think you really want to know the answer to that question! ROFL.

Now as far as calling you a "peanut senior" I would NEVER. I was telling p'd ant to be quiet in the peanut gallery.

Now to answer your question, in the world of gymnastics.....um, dare I say it? Think of really really old furniture....LMAO

Please don't take offense, I truly am just kidding with you!!!!!!!!!; August 11, 2008 4:02 PM
Independent Voter said...: LOL AJ, ya I had stated that to p'd ant because he is so young.; August 11, 2008 4:03 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Dave
I bet your momma had a cow over your angles. Do they ever bother you? My brother broke his angle when he was about that age and it gets sore sometimes. Jean; August 11, 2008 4:04 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Dave AP might be young but he can be wise! AP don't go be getting the big head just because I said that LOL LOL Jean; August 11, 2008 4:06 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Dave

really realy old furniture can be quite confortable and something that you want to keep forever. turd LOL Jean; August 11, 2008 4:07 PM
Independent Voter said...: WOW! It appears as though McCain is now plagiarizing Wikipedia when it comes to his Georgia Speech.; August 11, 2008 4:08 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Dave

I'm in great shape for my age. As of mather of fact I've been told several times that I look like I have the body of someone much younger plus I'm not bad on the eyes. I have you to know. I tell them it's in the genes. I have a great gene pool. LOL LOL Jean; August 11, 2008 4:11 PM
Independent Voter said...: LOL AJ. I wasn't calling you old furniture....I just didn't want to use the word that describes really really old furniture. Think of what you would call really really old furniture.

And yes, I do know that p'd ant can be wise, but very stubborn at times (as we all are).

As far as my ankles, yes they do get sore every now and then. But not as bad as they could be. It's usually only when it's supper cold, which fortunately I live in San Diego where it doesn't get too terribly cold. And for those times when I do go skiing I have boot warmers that I put in my ski boots so that they don't give me too many problems.; August 11, 2008 4:13 PM
Beryl said...: I'm really enjoying Randi today in between conference calls.

She talked about how the Repugs are going to exploit fear to win this election. They hope to make Americans so afraid of Obama that they will vote for McBush.

This tactic is not only wrong, it is evil. I'm sorry for being preachy today but that is another concept that is addressed so well in the Bible. Fear (other than the fear of God) is crippling and based on a lies. Romans 8:15 & 2 Timothy 1:7 are good references for the Christians among us but the one that puts it in perspective is this one:

Revelation 21:8- "But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers,and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone, which is the second death."

Just like the Repubs lied to get Americans to be fearful and support a war that should never have been waged, they are lying about Obama to get Americans to support McCain.

The Christian community needs to talk about this.; August 11, 2008 4:16 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Dave oh so I'm antique. That's ok I have several pieces that are. I think I'll be keeping them. [they are beautiful. LOL Jean; August 11, 2008 4:19 PM
Independent Voter said...: That's great AJ. As for myself, I have a great 'JEAN' pool. Although I get my looks mostly from my mother the 'gene' pool on my dad's side isn't worth discussing. He remarried to a "bug-eyed" gene pool. You know the one's who look like their eyes could pop out of socket at any moment. Ya, that's the step-family, which I'm SOOOOOOOO grateful to not be a part of.; August 11, 2008 4:19 PM
Independent Voter said...: LOL AJ. You caught on. LOL.; August 11, 2008 4:19 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Beryl

I choose to believe that there will be enough democrats to beat someone [republics] that just want to spead fear. Have faith in the democrats to do the right thing for americans. Jean; August 11, 2008 4:22 PM
Aunt Jean said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; August 11, 2008 4:23 PM
Independent Voter said...: Great point Beryl. I'm by no means a Christian, but I do agree since the Repubs always seem to try and use their "Christian values" against the Dems, they should truly be called out for their hypocrisy.

I wonder why HuffPo or any other liberal sites haven't put out a reaction from "evangelicals" on McCain's visit to Sturgis (sp?) and pimping out his wife in that "beauty" contest.; August 11, 2008 4:24 PM
Independent Voter said...: AJ, unfortunately we obviously couldn't count on them for 2000 or 2004.; August 11, 2008 4:24 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Dave I knew what you were talking about from the begining just wanted to pull your leg. Jean VBG; August 11, 2008 4:26 PM
jean said...: Indy,
Got the hint, taking a break for a while. That is always good.
jean; August 11, 2008 4:27 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Dave

you are right about 2000 and 2004 but maybe they seen their foolish ways with what has happened in america. Surely they wouldn't be that stupid again. Jean; August 11, 2008 4:28 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Dave and Jean

the sad part about it is people will expect things to turn around overnight and that will not happen. It will take years for someone to clean up the mess that the republicans have made.Maybe the younger age group will see that and give the democrats time to clean it up. I guess that is all that we can hope for. Jean; August 11, 2008 4:33 PM
Independent Voter said...: Nice DNC ad hitting John McCain hard.; August 11, 2008 4:43 PM
Independent Voter said...: Indy,
Got the hint, taking a break for a while. That is always good.
jean

LOL!!!!! Ya, I think I will be able to watch a few political shows tonight, because things are boring on the Olympics right now (well tennis is ok) but I think I'd rather watch grass grow at this point.

-------

AJ, I wouldn't put it past the dems. Like Jean said earlier, only the Dems have the ability to shoot themselves in the foot every election cycle.; August 11, 2008 4:46 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Dave when will the republics learn shipping our jobs oversea only hurt america. It's so stupid that they think otherwise. They need to get their heads out of their butts and start using them sometimes. Oh by the way I liked the ad also.

I think the reason democrat fall so easy for the republicans BS is we want to believe in people. Jean; August 11, 2008 4:52 PM
Independent Voter said...: WOW! Ohio Dems have packed a punch against McCain; August 11, 2008 5:01 PM
Richard said...: Sorry I've been scarce, I'm in Vermont visiting my mother, and she has 28K dialup (I feel like it's 1995!).

That was quite a debate, but Aunt Jean was clearly in the wrong. I don't think people who try to correct clearly mistaken statements of facts, especially ones made in all-caps with multiple exclamation points, can be blamed for the argument.

Aunt Jean, I am sorry I didn't respond to you earlier, but I was away. I am not telling you what opinion to have, but I do not think it is appropriate to bring your pro-life rhetoric to a democratic blog. Our party's platform is clearly pro-life, and I don't want to sit hear reading right-to-life rhetoric. If you want to make such arguments, take it to a pro-life blog.; August 11, 2008 5:06 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Rich

that wasn't my intention. I was just teasing AP. it never crossed my mind about pro- choise or pro- life. Once again I was just teasing AP on his words.

I'm not going to open that can of worms but I will say this you don't have any idea why I did that or said it. So please don't tell me I'm wrong when you don't know the whole story. Jean; August 11, 2008 5:13 PM
jean said...: rich,
Shame on you.
This is a Democratic Site, not Republican crap.
Both sides should be able to discuss their opinions.
I am for "CHOICE" for the woman but everyone has their right to their opinion.
You also may want to check out what you wrote because it is confusing.

By the way, how did the visit go?
jean; August 11, 2008 5:16 PM
Aunt Jean said...: To everyone I changed my pic [got tired of seeing my face] ha ha. The guy with the cowboy hat just got back from Iraq [he's my great nephew]and the other one is my nephew.We will be seeing him in about 3 weeks we are going to give him a big party and put banners all the way down the steets for at least a mile welcoming him home. AJ; August 11, 2008 5:27 PM
Mike in Maryland said...: apissedant said...
Mike,
The article isn't scientific, so you can't "scientifically refute" it.

AP,

How about reading, then posting a comment, in context?

The 'scientifically refuting' comment I made was about an idiot who thought they could blow some pseudo-scientific words around and make people think it was science they were talking about. My comments re: science were NOT in reference to anything that Leah or you had posted.

My words were "I also challenged them to show scientific proof of their 'theories'." The 'theories' comment was in reference to the dim-wit's use of the word theory when discussing 'creationism' and 'intelligent design', which are NOT scientific theories, not even hypotheses.

Or is it your intent to misconstrue others' words just to cause a lot of messages to be posted? It's either that, or you have a reading comprehension problem.

Mike; August 11, 2008 5:30 PM
jean said...: Aunt Jean,
I know you will have a great party.
LOL
Nice looking family.
I really like the new picture.
jean; August 11, 2008 5:36 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Jean

thanks so much but I also have a biggggg family the last count I believe was 68. Jean; August 11, 2008 5:40 PM
jean said...: Aunt Jean,
LMAO.
My husband's side is that way.
When you say come over for dinner it is a BIG Costco run (especially for alcohol:)
jean; August 11, 2008 5:44 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Jean I recounted there is 74.LOL AJ; August 11, 2008 5:47 PM
Karen Anne said...: Being from New England, I like caucuses, since they're like town meetings. They are also a good measure of how dedicated people are to a candidate in that they have to show up and it takes awhile. That says how likely the candidate is to have volunteers in the general election.

And it's a measure of how organized a campaign is, as in how well they identify voters and arrange stuff like rides to the caucuses, babysitting, etc.

My state had a primary, and I managed to vote for Obama despite breaking a bone and hobbling around to get there on crutches. I think someone could manage to get a babysitter.

ap, the Clintons cashed in big time after Bill left office, by selling influence, doing stuff he couldn't do in office. Like that $132 million for one day trip. This is exactly the stuff Harry Truman said was wrong for an ex-President to do.; August 11, 2008 5:48 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Jean

I know what you mean most of my family likes to party.Sometimes it can be a mess because even in a big house it's hard to fit everyone so there are people everywhere.LOL I think you know what I'm talking about. Jean; August 11, 2008 5:51 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Jean the sweet thing about it is my mother still buys for everyone. She's on ss she saves all year for the event. She does without to do it. We have told her many times don't worry about buying us a gift but she hardheaded she won't listen.AJ; August 11, 2008 5:53 PM
Richard said...: AP: I don't think Mike in MD is a troll. In fact, I like almost all of his posts. The only time his posts grate are when he and you are arguing, something which seems to bring out the worst in both of you. I don't know what your problem is with Mike, but I think if you would let it go you would find that he makes insightful posts which are generally quite productive.; August 11, 2008 5:53 PM
Karen Anne said...: One thing that puzzles me, how come those 18 million people who voted for Clinton don't care enough to send in $1 each to pay off her debt?

That sure makes all the claims of their bring devoted supporters seem hollow, even without the polls showing most Clinton supporters plan to vote for Obama. Looks like there is just a noisy minority in the puma category.; August 11, 2008 5:56 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Karen they don't do that here that I know of. Plus you have to know someone to get a babysitter. Most of the people that could have babysitted was at the caucuses or working.As far as my mother she goes to a different place than the rest of us. Plus health wise she is not able to sit there for hours. So to me they are not fair. Jean; August 11, 2008 5:57 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Karen Anne have you become a troll and trying to start trouble? Jean; August 11, 2008 5:59 PM
Aunt Jean said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; August 11, 2008 6:01 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Rich

people on here wasn't calling Mike in Maryland a troll. It was
different Mike on here. Jean; August 11, 2008 6:03 PM
suzihussein22 said...: Hey, I'm posting to see AJ's new pic...nice. I read about Barns for Obama. That'll be nice for the scenery with See Rock City.

Rich- I'm a pro-life Dem. Does that ban me now from this blog or yours?

Beryl-Thank you for the Christian perspective on fear-mongering and lies. I totally agree.; August 11, 2008 6:03 PM
jean said...: suzi,
Is everyone getting cranky or is it just a Monday.
jean; August 11, 2008 6:06 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Karen Anne what one day trip are you talking about?

ap, the Clintons cashed in big time after Bill left office, by selling influence, doing stuff he couldn't do in office. Like that $132 million for one day trip. This is exactly the stuff Harry Truman said was wrong for an ex-President to do.AJ; August 11, 2008 6:09 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Jean I'm not cranky.But yes you are right there seems to be some on here that is. AJ; August 11, 2008 6:10 PM
Aunt Jean said...: suzihussein22
thanks and how are you today. AJ; August 11, 2008 6:12 PM
Beryl said...: "If you want to make such arguments, take it to a pro-life blog."

I can't speak for AJ but I am unashamedly pro-life who believes abortions should remain legal for medical reasons not for convenience or economic ones. I'll respect your pro-choice comments and you should respect mine. If this blog cannot tolerate alternative platform views, then that is a shame and I'm outta here.; August 11, 2008 6:19 PM
apissedant said...: Wow there was lots of posting while I was gone.... I'm at 4:07, I'll comment back when I catch up.; August 11, 2008 6:31 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Beryl

even though sometimes we don't agree with each other I still enjoy your post. So please don't let someone run you off this thread just because of their attiude and or words.Jean; August 11, 2008 6:50 PM
apissedant said...: Mike,
ugh...
I understand that the posts you were refuting were attempting to be scientific, and this is why you refuted them with scientific evidence. My point was that the posts and articles I was refuting were not scientific, so no science was required.
Just because I used simple facts, and not "scientific facts" does not mean that the analogy did not work, as your post implied. I refuted her statement, and the statements of the article, with actual historical facts, both about her previous posts, as well as well documented history. All of these are listed, if your idea is to completely ignore arguments and nitpick on... I'm not even sure what you're nitpicking on... well... I guess to each their own.
If you have anything to actually refute my facts, feel free to post it. Otherwise, I guess the conversation is over. I have not seen you refute a single fact that I presented.

Did Leah ever try to tell me what I should or should not post on this site?
Yes she did. (respond to this if you choose)
Did Hillary and Bill Clinton make money on Whitewater?
No they didn't. (respond to this if you choose)
Has Leah ever used swear words on this site?
Yes she has. (" ")
Were there more issues more widely reported with political ramifications in the news than those stated by Leah?
Yes there were. (" ")
Did Leah call me a Communist for asking why we couldn't focus on a more positive campaign instead of simply dragging everyone else through the mud?
Yes she did. (" ")
Has Obama called for a positive campaign of hope and change, and encouraged his supporters to do the same?
Yes he has. (" ")

Those are the facts. If you would like to debate those, bring it.; August 11, 2008 6:50 PM
apissedant said...: rich,
Mike in Md is most definitely not a troll. "Mike" is a troll. There are two Mikes. I have never and will never call Mike in Md a troll. He is a respectable Democrat that I disagree with on a regular basis.; August 11, 2008 6:52 PM
apissedant said...: Dave and AJ,
I'm glad I wasn't here during the antique guessing process, because my guess was not as positive. ;) I was picturing old furniture in a trailer, not in a historic landmark.; August 11, 2008 6:54 PM
apissedant said...: karen anne,
I am quite curious and suspicious with how they earned so much money after he left office. The article specifically talked about how much money he made IN office. The article did not have the facts straight. As to 132 million in a single day.... well their total income since he left office is about this in total, so it is not possible. If you have some information about a specific event, I would be more than happy to read it.; August 11, 2008 6:58 PM
Aunt Jean said...: AP you are funny. So now I'm a part of a historic landmark it's getting better all the time. LMAO. AJ; August 11, 2008 6:59 PM
Independent Voter said...: WOW! Apparently Chris Matthews agrees with me. He just suggested that Obama would have probably won Iowa by a larger margin.; August 11, 2008 7:01 PM
apissedant said...: rich,
BTW, I agree that Mike in Md bring out the worst in each other when we argue. We are both very stubborn and are passionate about our beliefs. This is a positive and negative, because the fact is, our passion is what led us here, but our stubborn qualities do not often lead for a positive agreement or compromise to be reached. There is a good reason we're not in Congress. ;); August 11, 2008 7:03 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Dave I would take what Cris Matthews says with a grain of salt. But you you could be right or wrong about what he said. AJ; August 11, 2008 7:04 PM
apissedant said...: I would also consider myself mildly pro-life. I am passionately against the Republican idea of making all abortions illegal regardless of the viability of the child, the mother's health, or rape. I disagree with convenience abortions. I will say that I believe forcing someone to carry a child to term puts a new level of responsibility on the government. If we made convenience abortions illegal, then we would have to take responsibility for the care of that child if the mother chose, or at least give the mother serious assistance so she could still accomplish something and provide for herself despite the unplanned child. Our current foster care and welfare programs do not appropriately complete this task, and I would not support banning convenience abortions unless these children were guaranteed food, medical care, a proper education, and someone who cares about them.; August 11, 2008 7:09 PM
apissedant said...: I agree with Chris Mathews and Dave. I believe the only primary where Edwards had a negative effect on Clinton was in South Carolina, where they split the white vote.; August 11, 2008 7:10 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: apissedant-

Since you are such a stickler to facts then why are you lying about what I said?

I have NEVER called anyone a 'communist'.

You can go back and look my comment is was:

"A well informed person reads ALL the news. This is not China ;)"

-----

I said 'this is not China'.
Which means that we can read all websites and that we have freedom of speech here in the USA.

I would appreciated it if you would stop accusing me of saying things that I have never said!

The more I read your comments the more I am beginning to believe that you are here just looking for fights. And I am not going to be pulled into your nonsense any longer.

Now let us just agree to ignore each other from now on.

Thank you.; August 11, 2008 7:36 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: In my opinion Hillary needs to hold a press conference to DENOUNCE and REJECT all of the groups, such as The Denver Group, PUMAs, etc., that say that they support her but that continually bash Obama!
--

Pro-Clinton group runs new ad, warns against Obama 'coronation'

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/08/11/pro-clinton-group-runs-new-ad-warns-against-obama-coronation/

.
This is a growing problem and everyone should be informed about what those folks are doing!; August 11, 2008 7:54 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: New Obama Book On Policy Coming Out This Fall

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/08/11/new-obama-book-on-policy_n_118114.html

.; August 11, 2008 8:00 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Here's a CNN link for those that think HuffPost is not their cup of tea ;)

New Obama book highlights U.S. agenda

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/08/11/new-obama-book-highlights-us-agenda/; August 11, 2008 8:02 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Two very interesting things (in my opinion) on the front page of DemConWatch:

Convention Theme will be "America's Town Hall"

http://www.demconwatchblog.com/2008/08/convention-theme-will-be-americas-town.html

AND

Barns for Obama (video)

http://my.barackobama.com/page/content/ohbarns

.; August 11, 2008 8:16 PM
Beryl said...: From a Colorado list:

http://blogs.jsonline.com/allpoliticswatch/archive/2008/08/11/obama-goes-after-mccain-over-harley.aspx

Obama goes after McCain over Harley
By Craig Gilbert
Monday, Aug 11 2008, 12:58 PM

Invoking an iconic Wisconsin product, Barack Obama launched a radio ad in Milwaukee Monday accusing John McCain of turning his back on Harley-Davidson motorcycles by opposing "Buy American" rules for government purchases.
The Republican McCain has been a critic of provisions that require the US government to buy American products, saying they are costly to taxpayers and antithetical to free trade.

One such rule requires the Secret Service to buy American-made motorcycles; Harley-Davidson, headquartered in Milwaukee, is the only major US manufacturer.

The Obama ad alludes to McCain's visit last week to the Sturgis Motorcycle Rally in South Dakota, where he told bikers, "Not long ago a couple hundred thousand Berliners made a lot of noise for my opponent. I'll take the roar of 50,000 Harleys any day."

The Obama ad, which the campaign said was running on AM and FM radio in Milwaukee only, declares:
"But when it comes to his record, American-made motorcycles like Harleys don't matter to John McCain. Back in Washington, McCain opposed a requirement that the government buy American-made motorcycles. He said all Buy American provisions were, quote, 'disgraceful.'"

An Obama spokesman said the Illinois Democrat supports the "Buy American" rules.
During a debate over the Homeland Security spending bill in 2005, McCain explained his view of such provisions, and expressed his disappointment in the provision requiring the Secret Service to buy American motorcycles.

"I firmly object to all 'Buy America' restrictions, as they represent gross examples of protection ist trade policy," McCain said on the Senate floor in 2005. "From a philosophical point of view, I oppose such policies because free trade is an important element in improving relations among all nations, which then improves the security of our nation. Furthermore, as a fiscal conservative, I want to ensure our government gets the best deal for taxpayers and with a 'Buy American' restriction, that cannot be guaranteed."

McCain plans to hold a town hall meeting Tuesday in York, Pennsylvania, which is home to the largest Harley manufacturing plant.

The Obama ad can be heard here

http://obama.3cdn.net/1ca89a08384d2d7d23_qxm6bi83d.mp3; August 11, 2008 8:19 PM
apissedant said...: Leah,
And why doesn't China have freedom of speech? Is it because they're a Communist government?
Your claim implies that I would like speech here to be like that of speech in China, which is limited by the People's Republic of China, a Communist government. So I guess I should have said you implied instead of said in order to be grammatically correct. I guess since you didn't explicitly say it it makes it less ridiculous? Nope, implying someone is a Communist for wanting a positive campaign is still pretty ridiculous.

Why haven't I picked an argument with independent voter, softspoken, or several other posters? How is it I got along just fine with you for months? Why didn't I argue with you earlier? How have I made it entire days without arguments?

The more I read your posts, the more I see you're just here to spread rumors like an 8th grader.; August 11, 2008 8:32 PM
apissedant said...: Leah,
I agree that Hillary should denounce the separative movement. They are bad for the party.; August 11, 2008 8:34 PM
Independent Voter said...: beryl, very interesting, but I think the ad should be airing in York, PA. Since Mc"Used"Douchebag is planning a town hall meeting there. :); August 11, 2008 8:35 PM
Beryl said...: A former Clinton adviser, Maria Cardona, on the Verdict with Dan Abrams disputed the idea that Clinton would have won if Edwards had dropped out in Iowa. She said that there is a lot of lamenting still going on. She was very cool and smart. I like her.

Howard Wolfson backed off in his statement because everyone got on his case - including Clinton supporters. The exit poll showed that the 2nd choices of Edwards supporters backed Obama 2:1. He messed up on that comment.

They also talked about he unAmerican memos Leah highlighted yesterday. Maria then stated that most people in the campaign didn't embrace that tactic.; August 11, 2008 9:27 PM
suzihussein22 said...: Those leaked memos were in the past. What good are they doing being published now? It just comes down to more profit for the msm. Maybe there's a slight chance it's someone who's now in PUMA who's hoping to give a little bit of ammo to McCain.; August 11, 2008 9:37 PM
apissedant said...: soft,
I agree. I also believe, as beryl said, that most people in the campaign did not agree with the tactic. There is and always has been a vocal minority of fringe supporters who will never be happy. There is this small minority of fringe supporters in every single camp. There always has been, and there always will be. I said something to that effect months ago.; August 11, 2008 9:40 PM
suzihussein22 said...: i v dave-AARGH, I'll try not to let my other half see this. He volunteered at Fort Clinch, FL for 7 yrs. and be even more p***** if he saw this. Lapel pin, anybody?; August 11, 2008 9:41 PM
Karen Anne said...: The $132 mil was in the news awhile back, but the only current link I can find is this one
http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/06/24/and-now-a-brief-word-from-bill-clinton/

A lot of it went to his "library" and so was not reportable income.

And it was for two days of work, not one, my bad.; August 11, 2008 9:47 PM
suzihussein22 said...: Yes, this shows the difference between Obama and the saber-rattling of McCain and Cheney. This is also the time for the UN to prove it's not obsolete, which is a small source of pride for my family. Hull is my 3rd cousin-

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/08/11/obama-emerges-to-talk-about-georgia/

Georgia's neighbors need to band together, at least temporarily, to keep Russia from possibly reforming the Soviet Union. It sounds like there's more going on here than taking over a pipeline while we're distracted with the Olympics.; August 11, 2008 9:48 PM
Karen Anne said...: ap,

I looked harder -

http://prismwebcastnews.com/2008/02/04/the-justice-department-confirms-bill-clinton-now-holds-key-to-releasing-hillary%E2%80%99s-white-house-records/; August 11, 2008 9:53 PM
suzihussein22 said...: Is that what you're going to do with all the pork in D.C., McCain-

http://www.nytimes.com/imagepages/2008/08/11/us/11mccainCA01ready.html

I wouldn't have worn white slacks to a casual event, Mrs. McCain.; August 11, 2008 9:55 PM
suzihussein22 said...: It must be nice to be able to afford this-

From there he headed for two nights at the MGM Grand in Las Vegas. Mr. McCain, who likes to gamble, avoided the sprawling lobby casino for a series of private meetings, topic undisclosed.

How many middle class elitists don't do this? It's all a part of his family values, I suppose.; August 11, 2008 9:59 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Beryl -

In my opinion as long as there are folks out there such as Wolfson, Ferraro, The Denver Group, PUMAs, saying unflattering things we must keep our eyes and ears open and stay vigilant.

If HRC releases her delegates before the nomination vote, I will feel much better.

I still won't totally relax until Thursday, August 28.

---; August 11, 2008 10:00 PM
suzihussein22 said...: Typesetters have really gotta stay on their toes-

http://www.nbc.com/The_Tonight_Show_with_Jay_Leno/headlines/H_3600/05.shtml#headline

http://www.nbc.com/The_Tonight_Show_with_Jay_Leno/headlines/H_3600/06.shtml#headline

You can't make this stuff up.; August 11, 2008 10:07 PM
jean said...: leah,
I won't relax till November 4th.
I hate loose ends.
jean; August 11, 2008 10:08 PM
Beryl said...: "I won't relax till November 4th.
I hate loose ends.
jean"

That is how I feel about this thing. I read somewhere today that PUMA was created not by former HRC supporters but by the McCain campaign to organize anti-Obama sentiment.

I totally believe this.; August 11, 2008 10:34 PM
Independent Voter said...: soft,

What which post were you referring to in this statement: i v dave-AARGH, I'll try not to let my other half see this. He volunteered at Fort Clinch, FL for 7 yrs. and be even more p***** if he saw this. Lapel pin, anybody?; August 11, 2008 10:34 PM
Independent Voter said...: beryl, it's called "operation chaos", brought to you by none other than Rush LIMPbaugh himself.; August 11, 2008 10:35 PM
Beryl said...: Rush will likely die with the legacy of having been a bane on America. He'll be studied by children as being worse than McCarthy.

Sad.

We know that Rush doesn't care about that though.; August 11, 2008 10:43 PM
apissedant said...: Karen,
Ugh, I just wrote a long reply, and my roommate unplugged the modem for some reason. I'll write a short one.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/31/us/politics/31donor.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

That is the actual article in question. I read the applicable portion of the article you posted. Bill Clinton was operating as a private citizen, and the 132 million was donated to a charity. Bill Clinton did not personally profit from the exchange.

I'm not worried about him campaigning for certain people and raising money for a charity. I believe the fact that he went from a very low end millionaire to a man with a negative net worth, and then bounced back to having more than 100 million dollars just 7 years later is more questionable. I am curious why people paid him so much money. People that donated to charities don't worry me.; August 11, 2008 10:50 PM
apissedant said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; August 11, 2008 10:50 PM
suzihussein22 said...: iv dave-That was in response to your link about Bush holding up the flag backwards.

Goody, goody...I get to beat my other half when he wakes me back up at 2 a.m. to get ready to photograph the Perseides meteor shower.; August 11, 2008 10:52 PM
apissedant said...: beryl,
I agree.; August 11, 2008 10:52 PM
apissedant said...: karen,
Also, again, the piece previously in question implied he made a mint while in office. This is patently false. In the same post I assaulted this article, I questioned the millions he has made since leaving office, and what those paying him hoped to gain from the partnerships.; August 11, 2008 11:02 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Karen Anne
went to the link you gave at 9:47 pm. There was nothing about President Clinton making 123 million and giving it to his libary.I also went to the link at the 9:53 post no where in the articles does it say that Bill Clinton donated 123 million.

Where did you find these sites they sound like garbage sites to me. Jean; August 11, 2008 11:09 PM
apissedant said...: aunt jean,
Follow my post. It is the actual New York Times article about the subject. The man did in fact donate 130 million dollars to Clinton's charities, and Clinton did in fact travel with him to Kazakhstan, where the man received a contract valued at tens of millions of dollars.

It is important to note that the estimated value of the contract is less than the donation he made. Not a very good example of a payoff. People typically like to get more than they're giving when they bribe someone.; August 11, 2008 11:16 PM
apissedant said...: You know Dave, it is not nice to make fun of another man's sexual abilities. I would have you know that he took a lot of drugs, and it is hard for that equipment to work properly after stressing the system like that. Also, my sources have informed me that he is a bottom, so does it really matter if he is limp?; August 11, 2008 11:19 PM
apissedant said...: very efficient cleaning crew tonight. Whoever it is, thanks. ;); August 11, 2008 11:20 PM
suzihussein22 said...: peevish-i v and you must be posting in code to get so much out of one little sentence about Limpitydoodah.; August 11, 2008 11:28 PM
jean said...: suzi,
Is your husband really filming a meteor shower.
OK I am off topic:)
jean; August 11, 2008 11:33 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Ap

I was referring to the link that Karen gave it was to PRISM Website. Aj; August 11, 2008 11:34 PM
jean said...: Again off topic,
I now have to go to a neighbors house to feed animals etc.
There is a big sticker in the garage that says Rush is Right.

Remember I am a good neighbor:)
AAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHH.
jean; August 11, 2008 11:36 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Suz

I have to agree with you that Dave and Ap must be posting in code but that : Limpitydoodah made me LMAO.
I've never heard it called that!!!
Jean; August 11, 2008 11:37 PM
apissedant said...: aunt jean,
I know, it is in there. I used the information in that article to find the original article at NYTs. It is definitely in there, but it is buried pretty far down the page. Just trust me that it is there, and go to the NYT article, since it is the source for the PRISM article anyways.; August 11, 2008 11:37 PM
apissedant said...: Nah, you don't need a code, you just make up stuff to fit in. ;) Take a friendly post from someone who won't take it wrong, and just add in a bunch of random stuff that makes you smile. :)

LEVITY

HAHAHA; August 11, 2008 11:40 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Ap

oh I believe what you are saying but Karen Anne said that Clinton made 123 million that is what I was referring to. AJ; August 11, 2008 11:40 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Karen Anne-

In the second link you posted I saw this:

“Just months after the Kazakh pact was finalized, Mr. Clinton’s charitable foundation received its own windfall: a $31.3 million donation from Mr. Giustra that had remained a secret until he acknowledged it last month.� The gift, combined with Mr. Giustra’s more recent and public pledge to give the William J. Clinton Foundation an additional $100 million, secured Mr. Giustra a place in Mr. Clinton’s inner circle, an exclusive club of wealthy entrepreneurs in which friendship with the former president has its privileges.” � Now, of course, Giustra and Clinton claim they traveled together to track the progress of Clinton’s charitable foundation, not to consummate any uranium business deals.� But no one is buying it. �"
-----

It it worthwhile to point out that Bill Clinton is in charge of all of the Clinton Foundation money. The money is also used by him when he travels around the world doing what he does.

I read not long ago that the foundation hasn't been very willing to give to organizations that 'do good works' in the USA and other countries.

So the foundation seems to be a place that wealthy people deposit lots of money and then Bill uses it in his pet projects.

I'll have to read more about the Foundation, but I'm sure there won't be very many 'secrets' out there to find.; August 11, 2008 11:41 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Ap

Nah, you don't need a code, you just make up stuff to fit in. ;) Take a friendly post from someone who won't take it wrong, and just add in a bunch of random stuff that makes you smile. :)
Turd VBG AJ; August 11, 2008 11:42 PM
suzihussein22 said...: jean-That's okay, I'm probably the most off topic. I should be on rants and raves most of the time. Yes, the meteor shower happens this time every year. My husband is a self-taught professional photographer, but when we go to his sister's wedding in 2 days, we're bringing a photographer with us. He's giving his sister away, not "shooting" her! The part about me wearing shells for a top is, however, not going to happen!

aunt jean-Was that one of my more clever moments? lol; August 11, 2008 11:43 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Suz YES by all means I will have to keep that in my little black clever word book LOL. Jean; August 11, 2008 11:46 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Karen Anne-

The next paragraph after the $130 million one sites one of the reasons that HRC couldn't be fully vetted for the VP slot:

“Neil MacDonald, the chief executive of a Canadian merchant bank that specializes in mining deals, said Mr. Giustra’s financial success was partly due to a �fantastic network’ crowned by Mr. Clinton. �That’s a very solid relationship for him,’ Mr. MacDonald said. �I’m sure it’s very much a two-way relationship because that’s the way Frank operates.’ � And we all know how Bill Clinton operates. � Leaving aside for a moment Bill Clinton’s reckless interference with U.S. foreign policy, as I’ve said many times in this space before, Bill Clinton’s business dealings around the world create serious conflicts of interest with respect to his wife’s position in the Senate and potential seat in the Oval Office.� Any deal that enriches Bill Clinton, enriches Hillary.� And who is it that is expected to keep the promises former President Clinton issues behind closed doors to foreign dictators?� Hillary Rodham Clinton. �

---

Conflicts of interest!; August 11, 2008 11:49 PM
Aunt Jean said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; August 11, 2008 11:53 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Exxon John (video)

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/08/11/dnc-parodies-cornyn-ad-to_n_118324.html

,; August 11, 2008 11:55 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Suz

I was living with someone one time that was a photographer for the airforce.We had probable 100 rolls in our icebox at a time I use to take pics. all the time with different colors ,objects, and anything else I could. He had a hell of a camera with several lens. I learned a lot about taking pics. from him. AJ; August 11, 2008 11:55 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: MONDAY

National Gallup Tracking

Obama +5

---

Looks like Obama taking a vacation hasn't hurt him so far :); August 12, 2008 12:02 AM
apissedant said...: Clinton Foundation Helps Battle Aids in Afria
Clinton Foundation Builds Green Technology Throughout the World
The Works of the Clinton Foundation; August 12, 2008 12:03 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Leah
in your very own words that a person is only responsible for what they say and do not for what someone else said and did. So no Hillary wouldn't be responsdible for what Bill did. Not only that if she can be President of the US she is more than able to be VP. Jean; August 12, 2008 12:05 AM
apissedant said...: Even articles criticizing the Clintons point out that their charity spend 10 billion dollars fighting the spread of AIDs in third world countries, and note that none of the Clintons get any monetary compensation for their work with the foundation. They even donated 10 million dollars of their own money to the charities.

It's weird how different fact and fiction are. There are so many skeletons in the Clinton closet, it is amazing people still find the need to make things up.; August 12, 2008 12:19 AM
Independent Voter said...: Yes, it is code. I referred to Limbaugh as LIMPbaugh. This was in reference to LIMPbaugh's trip to the Dominican Republic where he was caught with Viagra that was not prescribed to him. He said it was for his hard...er...heart problems, but you know, I'm sure he put the side effects of the medication to good use.

p'd ant, you suck!!!!!! I so cannot believe you put that horrible visual in my head. I really could have done without it.; August 12, 2008 12:22 AM
Independent Voter said...: p'd ant - my only problem is that they weren't willing to disclose the library donor list, which could have indicated inappropriate "lobbying" that may have been going on, but at the same time it could have exonerated them too. So the "secrecy" is what really bothered me. If there wasn't something to hide, why would it have been that big of a deal. (Just reading between the lines).

Please know, again, I'm not bashing them, because I know they do some great work through the charity, I'm just saying that it could have gone either way, for or against them.

Anyway, I'm not worried about it since Obama is the presumptive nominee.; August 12, 2008 12:28 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Dave LMAO

AJ; August 12, 2008 12:28 AM
apissedant said...: The Atlantic reports that Bill Clinton is trying to save the world.

What a dirty dirty charity. They found out that middlemen were charging a poor African nation 7 times the market value for AIDs drugs, and took over and fixed the operation. Who did Bill Clinton do this with? Nelson Mandela.

I smell a scandal!!! That man's a felon!; August 12, 2008 12:29 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Dave

sometimes you just don't want people screwing with your baby. Know what I mean. Besides like you said it's a moot point at this time. AJ; August 12, 2008 12:31 AM
Independent Voter said...: ;) AJ

p'd ant - LOL! Sarcasm alert!; August 12, 2008 12:31 AM
Independent Voter said...: I hear ya AJ, and I agree. I think that had they willingly opened the books, the appearance of transparency could have helped her a tremendous amount. Like I said, it could have hurt or helped, depending on who the donors were.; August 12, 2008 12:34 AM
apissedant said...: Dave,
I completely understand and agree. The actual credible complaints about the Clintons and their foundations have revolved around the intense secrecy that they have with their donor lists. This secrecy is 100% legal, but I do not believe it is appropriate for a sitting Senator, and I most definitely do not believe it is appropriate for the POTUS. I would like to move away from the secrecy of the Bush administration, not move into another secret administration.

To give you an idea of how lacking in credibility the other claims are, WIKIPEDIA will not publish them. They have deleted several criticisms that the editors at WIKIPEDIA found without merit, lacking in evidence, or completely irrelevant to the subject at hand. WIKIPEDIA is an open editing platform, with one of the lowest thresholds possible for a publication.

That is my point. There is plenty of real criticisms to levy at the Clintons, so why would I or anyone else possibly make any up or circulate unsubstantiated rumors?; August 12, 2008 12:36 AM
apissedant said...: The supposed payout spoken of earlier of 130 million dollars went to charity, resulting in 0 dollars going to the Clinton family. The contract that it supposedly bought was worth tens of millions of dollars, far less than the money "spent" to "buy" the contracts. It not only lacks evidence, it fails the logic test.; August 12, 2008 12:37 AM
Independent Voter said...: On another note, shouldn't we be demanding to see more of Mc"Used"Douchebag's medical records? I swear he has PTSD or some other mental health issues.; August 12, 2008 12:37 AM
apissedant said...: Oh, and you're welcome for the visual, I thought you'd like it. LOL ;); August 12, 2008 12:37 AM
Independent Voter said...: p'd ant - I agree with you as far as circulating rumors, etc.; August 12, 2008 12:39 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Ap and Dave may I ask you a question? If the money to the foundation is used to help people with Aids and other great causes why would it matter who the donations came from just as long as it wasn't blood money? Really think about it before you answer. AJ; August 12, 2008 12:44 AM
Mike in Maryland said...: Headline on MSNBC.com:

"Bush to relax protected species rules"

Subhead: "Plan takes scientists out of decision making on species status"

And guess which industry, besides the energy sector, is a major force behind the regulation change?

One small excerpt:
The changes . . . would accomplish through regulations what conservative Republicans have been unable to achieve in Congress: ending some environmental reviews that developers and other federal agencies blame for delays and cost increases on many projects.

Yes, developers, who in concert with the energy industry, have been the major force in the sprawl of cities, and the destruction of green space all over America.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26143098/

Mike; August 12, 2008 12:54 AM
apissedant said...: aunt jean,
I fully understand your argument, and partially agree with you. However, the Presidential Library is one of the main points of contention. The Presidential Library is exactly as a museum and library open to the public. It is also non-profit, and centered around education. The Clintons do not profit from this either.

The only reason that they might do underhanded deals with shady people is for their posterity and arrogance. The fact is that all of these items are in the Clinton name, so if they are the greatest and best, the Clintons will be remembered forever. Some people would sell big government contracts for less than this. The Bush administration certainly has.
Bush administration sells contracts for library donations

If Hillary remains just a Senator, it isn't that big of a deal. If she is President, there is too much opportunity for abuse.; August 12, 2008 12:57 AM
apissedant said...: typo, "is exactly" does not belong.; August 12, 2008 12:57 AM
apissedant said...: Mike,
That was first reported about a month ago. I believe I posted about it. For 7 1/2 years, they have only done one item with regards to this topic, and it was court ordered. Now, with six months left in office, they want to redo these environmental policies to prevent the next President from doing anything. Here's an article on it from an environmental group last month.

http://www.plentymag.com/blogs/political/2008/07/bush_sprints_to_enact_lastminu.php; August 12, 2008 1:03 AM
jean said...: My gosh it is a lightening round with ap,indy and AJ.
I am still recovering from the Rush is Right sticker in the garage.
Have a good night.
(A lot of plants to water:)
jean
Have a good night suzi.; August 12, 2008 1:06 AM
apissedant said...: night jean!; August 12, 2008 1:08 AM
Mike in Maryland said...: AP,

It is my opinion that when Leah made the "This is not China" comment, she was using an allusion.

China censors. It is just happenstance that China is Communist, but it is currently the best known example of a nation that is currently censoring.

Other countries censor, some that I'm sure you would recognize as NOT Communist.

Reporters without borders lists the following as the worst:
Myanmar
China
Belarus
Iran
Tunisia
Cuba
Egypt
Saudi Arabia
Turkmenistan
Vietnam
North Korea
Syria
Uzbekistan

I don't think most would consider Myanmar, Iran, Tunisia, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, or Syria as "Communist".

Censorship is a hallmark of a dictatorship. Think Nazi Germany; Fascist Italy; Spain under Franco; Greece, Turkey, Chile and Argentina under the military juntas just in the last 100 years. None of the above were Communist.

Me thinks you jumped to a very wrong conclusion when you accused Leah of accusing you of being a Communist, and I think you owe her an apology.

Mike; August 12, 2008 1:08 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Mike in Maryland

I totally disagree with you about Leah I don't think he owes her a damn thing. AJ; August 12, 2008 1:18 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Ap goodnight. AJ; August 12, 2008 1:19 AM
Independent Voter said...: Goodnight jean! LOL AJ; August 12, 2008 1:22 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Jean have a nice night. AJ; August 12, 2008 1:23 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Dave you be nice LOL have a wonderful night. AJ; August 12, 2008 1:24 AM
Independent Voter said...: AJ, I'm not going anywhere, YET. :)

I was saying goodnight to the other Jean. ;); August 12, 2008 1:27 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Dave that great to hear I thought everybody was leaving me waaaaaa. AJ; August 12, 2008 1:29 AM
Aunt Jean said...: So Dave did you read my post to you and Apissedant about the Clinton foundation? AJ; August 12, 2008 1:31 AM
apissedant said...: Mike,
You are quickly losing any reason to be respected.

The COMMUNIST government of China most definitely sensors, and I DID NOT sensor her. I did the exact same thing that you did to me, and that she did to me. Did you not ask me to take the argument somewhere else? YES, YES YOU DID.

So I see no dispute on all but one of the things I posted, and that one is ARGUABLE AT BEST.

I think you owe ME an apology. You have levied MORE THAN ONE personal insult at me, and I believe you once called into question my ability to raise my child.

AND NOW YOU'RE ASKING ME TO APOLOGIZE?

So now I ask you, was it appropriate for you to call into question my ability to raise my child because we had a disagreement? Have I ever gotten personal with either you or Leah?

Why not say we have freedom of speech and I will not be censored? (Despite the fact I was just forwarding a message FROM BARACK OBAMA)

Now do you have any actual retort for any of the items on the list?
There were about 5 more, and so far you've come up with a half almost possible retort on one point.

I would say much more, but I have decided to show more maturity than you have, and censor the things I would like to say. I will show restraint and not make this personal as you have in the past. You have more than proven that with age does not necessarily come wisdom, congratulations.; August 12, 2008 1:32 AM
apissedant said...: By the way, you have also again shown your bias and lack of ability to post facts.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship

Every nation censors, the question is the amount of censorship, not whether there is censorship or not. We are ranked 48th. You should consult ACTUAL facts before posting garbage.; August 12, 2008 1:36 AM
apissedant said...: Oh, and my favorite part, she was using the exact same argument as StopObamaNow used. By her argument, none of his posts should be deleted, nor none of the blatantly homophobic and false posts by Mike.; August 12, 2008 1:38 AM
Independent Voter said...: Oops, ya AJ I did. I meant to respond. I simply forgot. It's difficult being me. I'm multi-tasking. I'm also keeping track of the Olympics and weeding out all the commercials.

Anyway, like p'd ant and I have stated is that it would be beneficial to know who the donors are because it would give an insight as to whether any type of impropriety has taken place or could take place (meaning lobbying). Are the donors receiving nice kickbacks through contracts? Are they expecting to receive any special favors? Etc. Like I said, the list doesn't necessarily implicate them in anything unless some kind of conflict of interest took/takes place.

Like p'd ant said, some administrations have sold out for much less, ie....the Bush administration. And I think it would have been in America's best interest to know whether or not we could count on it not happening under the next administration. We already know it WILL happen under a Mc"Used"Douchebag's administration as he has already been given kickbacks from the oil/gas lobbyists (in the form of campaign contributions) after he came through for them.; August 12, 2008 1:43 AM
Independent Voter said...: OBAMA,OBAMA,OBAMA,OBAMA,OBAMA,OBAMA
OBAMA 2008; August 12, 2008 1:43 AM
Mike in Maryland said...: AP wrote in reference to me:
I believe you once called into question my ability to raise my child.

AP,

Prove it is all I can say. And I know you cannot.

It is my opinion that something is stressing you right now, as you are definitely NOT acting rationally.

Mike; August 12, 2008 1:45 AM
apissedant said...: It was from a thread a month and a half ago. Of course I don't have access to a thread that old. It is nice to see you don't deny it though.

Now how about all of the other points? Or the point about all nations censoring, or about America being number 48 on the censorship list? It took me two minutes to refute your statement. Learn to fact check.; August 12, 2008 1:48 AM
apissedant said...: Apparently your memory is failing you too. Debate the facts if you can, instead of again trying to make it personal.; August 12, 2008 1:49 AM

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