Democratic Convention Watch: Open Thread

Tuesday, April 01, 2008

Open Thread

WE'VE MOVED! Democratic Convention Watch is now at http://www.DemocraticConventionWatch.com

Who's going to win, who has a better chance against McCain, or whatever else is on your mind.

We have decided to stop allowing anonymous comments. Not because we don't like reading what people have to say but because Blogger has introduced a new "feature" that makes you go to a second page when the number of comments go over 200.

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tmess2 said...: Lee, the rules are the rules. The race was run based on the rules. As such, an argument based on a different set of rules really is not logically sound. It's like saying but for one play in the first quarter your team would have won the game.

As far as electoral-vote.com, one of my favorite sites, you are misinterpreting the data. This is polling data, which means that there is a margin of error (the states shown as white with a colored outline). While the person running that site uses those states in giving a "state of play," it also acknowledges that the polls in those states are inconclusive -- too close to call.

The last time I added the states on that site, none of the candidates had a majority without including the "too close to call states." When you compare the two Democratic candidates, Clinton has fewer electoral votes in the "too close to call category" but does not yet have 270 as solid or leaning. The bottom line is that Obama has a lower floor of electoral votes than Senator Clinton but a higher ceiling (where else have we heard that one before).; May 15, 2008 2:15 PM
Independent Voter said...: Lee, if Hillary liked the rules of the Republicans so much, she should have run as a Republican.

Just because you DON'T like the rules as they were set up they are still the rules nonetheless. Your chosen candidate and her supporters continue to try to change the rules and the measures as to how the nominee is chosen at EVERY turn.

Face it, the rules are the rules! Like it or not, you DON'T change those rules in the middle of the game!

EVERY candidate bases a strategy on the rules. Obama had a 50 state strategy which focused on delegate rich districts, Clinton had a 27 state strategy based on delegate rich states, plain and simple. Obama's 50 state strategy and his ADVISORS were more effective than were Clinton's

Clinton Advisor Mark Penn made the remark, that he thought CA was winner take all. This may be true, but NOWHERE in the Democratic rule book was any state winner take all. Only in the Republican rule book was it that way. Perhaps she got what she deserved by hiring a Republican as her top strategist.

Is it Obama's fault that he hired a better organizational team than Clinton? Is it Obama's fault that she underestimated his abilities? Is it Obama's fault that she went broke by Feb. 5th? Is it Obama's fault that she has had to loan her campaign 11.4 million dollars?

One thing to remember, Terry MacAullife (sp) was one of those member who HELPED write the rule book for the Democrats.

Aunt Jean, I will respond to your post a little later, I'm headed out for one of my finals....UGH I can't wait until I'm finally finished.; May 15, 2008 2:17 PM
Anonymous said...: Well folks Dave in NC doesn't know which Dave in NC he is.
The one who made the post May 14, 2008 12:26 PM or the one who just posted.

I will wait a few minutes before posting both Bio's; May 15, 2008 2:18 PM
themann1086 said...: Yamaka is not a Democrat. I've been lurking this Open Thread for 2 weeks now, and he has used every right-wing meme and talking point ("bleeding liberal", $400 haircut, black liberation theologist and/or Muslim, etc ad nasuem). Hillary supporters, don't agree with him! He makes you look bad. Obama supporters, don't engage with him! He's a troll.; May 15, 2008 2:19 PM
Pablo said...: Yam,
I'm not quite sure how BHO is hiding his name and his heritege. If he is in fact, he did a horrible job by mentioning it himself in his book and while during his campaigning.

What I want to know is why Hillary doesn't call herself Diane. What more is she hiding?

I wish the DNC would have been more upfront and fair by disclosing the rules of the nomination beforehand, and letting us all know it would in fact delegates chosen by all the states that decide the nomination.; May 15, 2008 2:24 PM
Anonymous said...: THE TALE OF TWO DAVES IN NC
Dave in NC who posted
May 14, 2008 12:26 PM
This Dave is so severely inbred that his family tree resembles a ball of twine and the only reason he has kids is so he won’t have to pay for sex.

The other Dave in NC is an intelligent person, with witty zingers, but refrains from gutter posting.; May 15, 2008 2:29 PM
jpsedona said...: Lee,

Woulda-shoulda is a pretty common excuse for losing candidates. On the Republican side, don't you think Rudy has been kicking himself for waiting until FL to compete? Hillary has no one to blame but herself for her current situation... grasping at straws to win. Bad campaign strategy & management; that's what it really comes down to...; May 15, 2008 2:30 PM
Emit R Detsaw said...: well said Hmmm, Tmessz, Indep Voter, & jp

Onward adn upward - Uproot the Bush WhiteHouse and put common sense in for a CHANGE!; May 15, 2008 2:45 PM
Yamaka said...: pablo:

I see your point on DNC and its Rules. Hopefully, RBC will resolve it to our satisfaction.

I believe that 2210 is the Legitimate Hurdle.

What BHO is hiding ?:

1. His statement "I have never been a Muslim". This is a lie.

2. When he wrote in Audacity,

"I will stand with the Muslims should the political winds shift in an ugly direction"

is extremely troublesome to lots of Americans, when we face the menace of the "fundamental Islamists" (by no means ALL Muslims) in our country.

3. He also hides his true racial feelings when he writes in "Dreams"

"I found a solace in nursing a pervasive sense of grievance and animosity against my mother's race".

That's all.

BHO has NOT been thoroughly vetted by the vast liberal conspiracy of media and other pro-Obamites.

:-); May 15, 2008 2:52 PM
RobH said...: Ed,

Thx for th link to the "ants taking over Houston" story. Hey, wait a minute, Yam's in Houston.

In his case, they're not eating his computer, just taking over the keyboard.....; May 15, 2008 3:03 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Lee-

You can chalk it up to just one more mistake that Hillary did by not switching over and becoming a Republican before the nomination season begun.

OBAMA / Kathleen Sebelius '08; May 15, 2008 3:05 PM
RobH said...: Lee @ 1:59:

"If the Dems, nominate Obama - he will lose."

Keep underestimating.
Keep underestimating.
Keep underestimating.

That's all we ask.; May 15, 2008 3:11 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: I'm here in Houston too and I haven't seen those new ants yet. But I am out on the patio with my laptop and I have a big bumblebee out here buzzing around ;); May 15, 2008 3:13 PM
Anonymous said...: leah, that is likely aObama Bee.
Be careful, the sting causes delusions of grandeur; May 15, 2008 3:17 PM
RobH said...: Obama supporters:

Would you consider quarantine on Yam, please? By engaging him, you just invite him to continue.

You can see he's desperate for attention inviting us all to try to guess all his pen names. Ooooh,
how exciting is that. And the lengthy imaginary conversations that prove to himself that he's worth engaging. And his beseeching the SD's to "listen (to what I say) and act" as if they might.

It's hopeless, really. I recommend an embargo.; May 15, 2008 3:19 PM
jpsedona said...: Leah,

I agree with Jim... beware those Obama Bee's ... keep your head down and run! I understand that they're practically as unpredictable as sniper fire...; May 15, 2008 3:26 PM
Anonymous said...: robh,
I believe in a previous post you refered to yourself as "Spokesman for all, but two", so you could enforce the boycot.

Usually Yam doesn't require feedback anyway. Yamdelights in the fact that thin skins have been punctured.; May 15, 2008 3:26 PM
jpsedona said...: RobH,

I think that if you talk with Yam long enough, you might turn him to the dark side... so to speak.; May 15, 2008 3:28 PM
November Politics said...: RobH,

Although you have a very good suggestion regarding the embargo. Like Senator Obama suggests, we must engage in diplomatic talks with everyone, regardless of how many brain cells they have.; May 15, 2008 3:28 PM
Anonymous said...: jp,
Yep,
You can tell the difference though.
If the bumble is before bee, it is a bumblebee, and if the bumble is after Obama, it is a Obamabee.

BTW, sniper fire is still going on.
ie; cheap shots; May 15, 2008 3:32 PM
dsimon said...: Lee: Under Republican rules of delegates, Hillary has won.

I posted this response before, but since it apparently didn't get read, I'll post it again.

1. The Republican model is simply not the one we have for the Democratic primary, much as some would wish it to be so. Period.

2. If we had a winner-take-all system in place, the campaigns would been run completely differently, so we simply can't know what the outcome would have been. Therefore it's fallacious to just assume that each candidate would win the states they won with the present system in place.

3. The winner-take-all system is not representative of the voters' preferences. In fact, it runs completely against the Clinton campaign's drumbeat to count the "popular vote." A winner-take-all system would allow allocate 100% of a state's or district's delegates to the person who got 50% + 1 of the vote. That result does not reflect the popular vote; it warps it even more than the current delegate system does.

If the Clinton camp wants to argue that the system should be about something other than delegates (which is the process we have, so I think considering any other systems are moot anyway), they can't have it both ways: they can't say "count the popular vote" and at the same time say "it's electoral college votes that should count, even though they don't reflect the popular vote."

4. The "electoral vote" argument is another example of the improper extrapolation of primary contests to the general election. We've been over and over this point: primary results are not predictive of general election results because the opponent will be different. Obama obviously will win NY and CA against McCain, so it makes no sense to "award" these states' "electoral votes" to Clinton in the primary.

If the argument is that Clinton gets more electoral votes against McCain than Obama does, then the place to start the analysis would be head-to-head polling state by state of each candidate against McCain, not Clinton and Obama against each other.

Can we please put this puppy to bed now?; May 15, 2008 3:34 PM
Anonymous said...: As for the ants, I hear the dine on fire ants, so welcome to Texas
ANTS; May 15, 2008 3:35 PM
Richard said...: I had written a lengthy response to Yam's most recent bigoted post, but after reading robh's post I decided not to post it. I agree that we should completely ignore all posts by Yamaka, but I would go further: I propose that we do the same to the racist troll Jim. Every time we respond, we just fuel their bigoted posts.

And I will return to my policy of ignoring anything Aunt Jean says on the topic of race.; May 15, 2008 3:36 PM
jpsedona said...: Jim,

"sniper fire is still going on" ... touche! and not even from Obama's cousin...; May 15, 2008 3:38 PM
dsimon said...: Lee: Her getting on the ticket as VP solves many problems.

A floor fight would doom Obama in November. How will women and Hillary supporters react to see Obama try to force her from the VP spot?

I read the article and thought it dramatically underestimates the political sophistication of superdelegates.

Most superdelegates know the political scene. They know that most Democrats will vote Democratic in November. They know that pro-choice folks cringe at more Scalia/Thomas Supreme Court appointments. If Clinton supporters really believe in Clinton's issues, then I don't see how a vote for McCain or staying home out of spite will make any sense.

The election will be won or lost with moderates, and Clinton as VP doesn't help Obama there. She doesn't bring national security cred. Despite her claims of "experience," she doesn't bring much of it to the ticket. She's divisive, whether that's justified or not. She doesn't mesh with his unity politics theme.

There are plenty of choices for Obama that make far more sense for November, and Obama superdelegates, and even some linton superdelegates, must know it. So there won't be a floor fight over whether Clinton gets the VP slot. And it's not like Obama would "force" her from it; that slot doesn't belong to anyone, so no one can be forced out of it--only invited in.; May 15, 2008 3:42 PM
Anonymous said...: Yam,
Could you get a few of your Rasberry ants and ship them to me.
I have fireants all over my fields as does most of Texas.

We could get rich, if they really kill fire ants.; May 15, 2008 3:47 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: I read an article regarding a poll taken in California that said that if the primary was held now that OBAMA would WIN California over Clinton. I wish other states would also take a poll to see just how much has changed since their primaries.
__________

May 15, 2008

According to RCP

Nationally...

Obama is up +7.7 over Clinton

Nationally...

Obama is up +4.4 over McCain

Clinton is up +3.2 over McCain

Looks like we know who the strongest candidate is at the moment ;); May 15, 2008 3:49 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; May 15, 2008 3:53 PM
jpsedona said...: Quotes that the could have made. Feel free to add your own:

Nancy Pelosi - "Neutrality is way overrated. I' remaining neutral"

John Edwards - "I decided that now was the time to come out for Barak. Since I'm not a superdelegate, my support will have meaningless impact on the remaining contests. I do like the thought of becoming Attorney general though."

Elizabeth Edwards - "I still like Hillary's health plan better. John's going to need it."

George Bush - "There's an election going on? Why didn't Dick tell me about it?"

Dick Chaney - "So I called my cousin Barak. I didn't have much advice for him other than to maybe take a few days off. 'Go hunting", I told him, 'Bring Hillary with you'"

Bill Clinton - "After this election is over, I will still be the first black, and now blue, president."

Hillary - "Who knew that Bosnia's airports were so safe?"

John McCain - "I understand the needs of older voters. Every month, I line up with all the other seniors who cash mine."

Cindy McCain - "I'm not releasing my tax returns. Period. I don't want John to know how much money I really have."

Howard Dean - "You know I thought this job would be easy. I didn't know there was involved."

Jimmy Carter - "I'm not ssaying who I'm voting for but I'll give you a hint, there are vowels at the beginning and end of their name."

Al Gore, after the Dem Convention - "I'm thinking of writing a new book on global warming. Scientists, credible scientists, have detected a hole in the ozone over Denver. They indicate it's due to hot air, or gases of some variety."

Hey, I could go on at length...; May 15, 2008 3:57 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Oops I forgot to say that those RCP figures are AVERAGES.
__________________

Jim-
The ants do eat the fire ants but the problem is that there is no way to get rid of the new ants. And the new ants are causing some major problems even at NASA. I just wish Texas could get rid of ALL ants.

(edited); May 15, 2008 4:00 PM
jpsedona said...: correction...

Howard Dean - "You know I thought this job would be easy. I didn't know there was math involved."; May 15, 2008 4:02 PM
countjellybean said...: Obama picks up another pledged delegate switch in NC.

.....

The current results from electoral-vote.com are:

State by State: Obama 121, Clinton 84, Blue 192, Red 116, None 25.

National: Obama 237, Clinton 280.

The most recent poll shows Nebraska in play, with McCain leading Obama by 3, Clinton by 27.

Check out the maps. An Obama nomination will force McCain to spend a lot more time and money in the central time zone states. (You may recall that during the 2004 campaign, a poll showed Hawaii in play just before the election, leading to a trip by Cheney to that state.); May 15, 2008 4:08 PM
Emit R Detsaw said...: Since we have seemed to move to longer posts again and even humor, I recieved this today.

Here are this year's winners of the Washington Post's Mensa Invitational . Read them carefully. Each is an artificial
word with only one letter altered to form a 'real' word.

1. Intaxication: Euphoria at getting a tax refund, which lasts until you
realize it was your money to start with.

2. Reintarnation: Coming back to life as a hillbilly.

3. Bozone (n.): The substance surrounding stupid people that stops bright
ideas from penetrating. The bozone layer, unfortunately, shows little sign
of breaking down in the near future.

4. Cashtration (n.): The act of buying a house, which renders the subject
financially impotent for an indefinite period.

5. Giraffiti: Vandalism spray-painted very, very high.

6. Sarchasm: The gulf between the author of sarcastic wit and the person
who doesn't get it.

7. Inoculatte: To take coffee intravenously when you are running late.

8. Hipatitis: Terminal coolness.

9. Osteopornosis: A degenerate disease. (This one got extra credit.)

10. Karmageddon: It's like, when everybody is sending off all these really
bad vibes, right? And then, like, the Earth explodes and it's, like, a serious bummer.

11. Decafalon (n.): The gruelling event of getting through the day
consuming only things that are good for you.

12. Glibido: All talk and no action.

13. Dopeler effect: The tendency of stupid ideas to seem smarter when they
come at you rapidly.

14. Arachnoleptic fit (n.): The frantic dance performed just after you've
accidentally walked through a spider web.

15. Beelzebug (n.): Satan in the form of a mosquito, that gets into your
bedroom at three in the morning and cannot be cast out.

16. Caterpallor (n.): The color you turn after finding half a worm in the
fruit you're eating.

And the #1 pick:

17. Ignoranus: A person who's both stupid and an axxhole.

Slow day so far, only +4 for Obama so far?; May 15, 2008 4:14 PM
Emit R Detsaw said...: Speaking of Campaign $$$

If you want to see how the candidates might do in the GE, take a look at the Donation Map on CNN.Com

If that is a corelation. Think it has been in the past, but 2008 has changed the landscape on how donations are raised.

Considering the amount of States won by Obama, it looks like a Reagan typ sweep in the GE.; May 15, 2008 4:19 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Just to have a little fun...
If we use 'hillary logic'
in the General Election Obama will win

Hawaii (born there, sister still lives there)
Kansas (grandparents lived there)
Indiana (great-grandparents lived there)
Illinois (lives there)
Oregon (brother-in-law basketball Head Coach at Oregon State)
All states that have a basketball team
All states that end in a vowel or (begin with a vowel or consonant)

Yep- it's all wrapped up!; May 15, 2008 4:26 PM
Yamaka said...: "Bad campaign strategy & management; that's what it really comes down to..."

jp:

I disagree.

She did okay on the strategy and management, IMO.

BHO has been sucking the Money faster than anybody in the recent history for both Dems and Reps.

I don't believe Money is only from small donors. Small donors are probably 30% - the same proportion of the Pro-Obama Blacks support.

The remaining money is from anti-Bill Clinton and anti-Women crowd. I was surprised at the malignant virulence of this faction (70%).

Imagine, the Wright issue got discussed before the Super Tuesday in Feb! That could have changed the entire dynamics of this Nomination.
(I first read about Wright and TCUU about a year ago in the Economist magazine - they predicted that it would be explosive! It was, and it will be in the GE).

I believe the vast liberal MSM failed to vet this Manchurian Candidate well early on. Even now he is NOT examined thoroughly. He WILL be in the FALL, if he is the Nominee.

The person who really lost his chance was John Edwards. In other words, JE is the legitimate candidate to oppose HRC. Not BHO.

In a cruel twist of events, he was mugged by the incompetent MSM inadvertently.

:-)
__________________________________

themann:

I am a FOB, a delegate standing up for HRC from TX; we meet on June 6 at our State Convention!

I am not a listener of Rush Who?

Still undeclared SDs are 265. He leads only by 61 TDs and she is leading in the Popular Votes.

My Math is still working:

1909 + 103 + 200 + 2212 a few over the 2210 the Full Legitimate Hurdle.

BHO's SDs are almost done, the rate will be considerably slower from now onwards, and the about 260 SDs will be undeclared by June 3. Most of this belongs to HRC.

:-)
______________________________

I am happy today that the Capital Market is stabilizing:

SP 500 Index is 1423 up 14.9
DIJA 12992.

I hope all the bad demons are driven out of the Market!

If BHO is the Nominee the Market could go South, I am concerned!

:-)
_______________________________

Finally, Sun is back in Houston.

Cheer, Smile and Vote for Hillary the First Woman POTUS.

Break Open the Glass Ceiling.; May 15, 2008 5:18 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Yamaka said: "She did okay on the strategy and management, IMO."
__________________________

Yamaka you ARE joking, right?

She did not have a strategy for after Super Tuesday (when she thought she'd be crowned) and she had no strategy for the caucus states.

As far as management - she put in loyalists instead of finding top people in the field with experience.

.; May 15, 2008 5:34 PM
jpsedona said...: Yam,

You are entitled to your opion that "She did okay on the strategy and management, IMO."

The post-mortem is going to show: that she was ill prepared to contest caucus states; her campaign misunderstood the power of the internet; she came out with the wrong attitude & message to start; campaign staff was incompetent; she couldn't overcome her negatives; Bill, instead of being a benefit to her campaign, was at best a neutral, and most likely detrimental factor... etc.

But you won't need to take my word for it... the MSM that you harp about will say the same thing.; May 15, 2008 5:40 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Edith Bolling Galt Wilson

Honorary Title:
Acting President of the United States
October 2, 1919–March 4, 1921

A WOMAN AS ALREADY BROKEN THE IMAGINARY GLASS CEILING ;)

Get over it and move on into the future!

Obama / Kathleen Sebelius 08'; May 15, 2008 5:41 PM
Yamaka said...: On HRC and Caucus:

Her demographics mostly (women and older and working folks) were structurally eliminated in the participation;

Caucuses are very time consuming long process, plus most older folks love confidential voting, which is not possible there.

And, I dare say BHO's people manipulated the Caucuses even to the point of outright fraud.

:-); May 15, 2008 5:48 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: BIG wide margin wins...

OBAMA
* Virgin Islands (89.9%)
* Idaho (79%)
* Hawaii (76%)
* Alaska (75%)
* District of Columbia (75%)
* Kansas (74%)
* Washington (68%)
* Nebraska (68%)
* Minnesota (67%)
* Colorado (67%)
* Georgia (67%)
* Illinois (65%)
* Virginia (64%)
* Maryland (62%)
* North Dakota (61%)
* Wyoming (61%)
* Mississippi (61%)

Hillary:
* Arkansas (70%)
* West Virginia (67)

Aren't 'facts' lovely ;); May 15, 2008 5:50 PM
Amot said...: NC delegate was not a switch!
There are 5 CDs there with one delegate in question each. It is too early to call who will get these delegates! GP use projections and therefore sometimes they change their numbers before the final result. However Obama is in a position to get even one more delegate from NC!; May 15, 2008 5:53 PM
Martin said...: "My Math is still working:

1909 + 103 + 200 + 2212 a few over the 2210 the Full Legitimate Hurdle.

BHO's SDs are almost done, the rate will be considerably slower from now onwards, and the about 260 SDs will be undeclared by June 3. Most of this belongs to HRC."

Absolute fantasy. This "math" works only for your imaginary scenario. You can claim which hurdles are "legitimate" or not. You can repeat your "math" over and over and over again. But let's make one thing perfectly clear: YOU DO NOT GET TO MAKE THE RULES. "YAMAKA" HAS NO SAY IN THIS. You have no power. You're an insignificant little troll on the internet. The goal is not 2210. It's 2025. I'm sorry the real math doesn't work out for you, but it's time to face reality.

And there's no @#$&*% way Hillary is going to pick up another 200 SD's. Dream on.

Break Open the Glass Ceiling.

There's more than one glass ceiling, yes? Obama winning the Presidency would break open a glass ceiling as well.; May 15, 2008 5:54 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Yamaka said: "Her demographics mostly (women and older and working folks) were structurally eliminated in the participation;

Caucuses are very time consuming long process, plus most older folks love confidential voting, which is not possible there."
____________________

I think that is just a bunch of bull.

At the caucus I went to there were more women than men. There were even old people there.
And people that support Obama also WORK!

And the states that were caucus states in this political season were also caucus states in the past - it's not like they all switched to caucuses just because Hillary is in the race this time.

She had a poor strategy and her campaign had to put out spin to cover their/her butt/s.; May 15, 2008 5:57 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Amot-

Earlier today when 1 NC delegate was added to the Obama number, 1 was subtracted from the Clinton number.; May 15, 2008 6:00 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Or maybe that was a NH one.
But in any case it was Obama +1 and Clinton -1; May 15, 2008 6:01 PM
Mike in Maryland said...: Yamakamikaze,

Are you part Japanese? Didn't you admit you are 1/16th or 1/32nd? If so, it is odds-on that your Japanese ancestry was of the Shinto faith.

Since your ancestors (at least part of them) were Shinto, by your own twisted logic, you are Shinto.

No further discussion is required.

Mike; May 15, 2008 6:06 PM
Amot said...: Yes, Leah!
The switch in NH was 2 days ago, today it was recalculation of NC! Actually I projected the same result in the same CDs 7 days ago :) when I was covering NC and IN. NC delegates are not named yet, they can not switch (yet).; May 15, 2008 6:12 PM
Pablo said...: Did you say the strategy was good, in your opinion?

I read where Ickes had gone balistic after hearing Penn's confident strategy that after Hillary had sewn up California, the race would be all but over. Penn had not known that the states were proportional. :(

Here it is http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,1738331,00.html

"How can it possibly be," Ickes asked, "that the much vaunted chief strategist doesn't understand proportional allocation?"; May 15, 2008 6:14 PM
Martin said...: And let's make another thing clear, Yamaka. You say Obama's a Muslim. You also want to hold Rev. Wright against him. You can't have it both ways. He can't be a Muslim AND be overly influenced by a non-Muslim preacher. So pick which retarded argument you want to stick with.

They're both ridiculous arguments, but I would suggest Rev. Wright as the slightly more reasonable one. Obama's not a Muslim, but even if (and I say EVEN IF) he was, so what? Muslim does not mean terrorist. There are plenty of Muslim Americans, and they have just as much right to run for President as anyone else. We have religious freedom in this country. Your insistence on Muslims as somehow unfit for office reveals that you are indeed a poor excuse for an American.; May 15, 2008 6:14 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Well I think all the 'pledged delegates' that have already been pledged to a candidate better 'be quiet' if they plan to switch their vote at the convention. I just read this morning that if a candidate hears that they are going to defect to the other side then the candidate can have them removed and replaced with a more loyal delegate.

So all you PLEDGED delegates out there - stay hush-hush until the convention ;); May 15, 2008 6:16 PM
Hippolytus said...: I can just hear Hillary singing the freecreditreport.com jingle: "...caused my credit was whacked...Legs stickin' to the vinyl and my posse's gettin' laughed at..."; May 15, 2008 6:24 PM
Hippolytus said...: We are drinking Yam's milkshake!; May 15, 2008 6:31 PM
Anonymous said...: Hippo,
More like you are feeding on Hate.; May 15, 2008 6:34 PM
ed iglehart said...: Comparative religion:

Taoism:

"shit happens."

Confucianism:

"Confucius say, 'shit happens'."

Buddhism:

"If shit happens, it isn't really shit"

Zen:

"What is the sound of shit happening?"

Hinduism:

"This shit happened before!"

Islam:

"If shit happens, it is the will of Allah."

Protestantism:

"Let this shit happen to someone else."

Catholicism:

"If shit happens, you deserve it."

Judaism:

"Why does this shit always happen to us?"

Atheism:

"I don't believe this shit!"

Agnosticism:

"What is this shit?"

Rastafarianism:

"Let's smoke this shit!"; May 15, 2008 6:36 PM
Anonymous said...: Parrots all,
I do not find a scintilla of knowledge in most of your posts, but I enjoy the ignorance and suble humor of your folly.; May 15, 2008 6:38 PM
jpsedona said...: Jim,

If Hillary, who reminds me alot of Dick Nixon, might say "you won't Hillary Clinton to kick around any more"...; May 15, 2008 6:50 PM
jpsedona said...: Hippo,

Hillary's song would be more like:

"It's my party and I'll cry if I want to... cry if I want to... you would cry to if it happened to you"; May 15, 2008 6:52 PM
jpsedona said...: Yam,

Talking about caucuses.. how'd the Maestro do in caucuses??? Didn't give such sage advice to Hillary, huh?; May 15, 2008 6:53 PM
jpsedona said...: From Andrea Mitchell, NBC:

Asked if there had been a change in message, a top Clinton aide told NBC News, "People understand the reality, but they are still loyal to her."

HRC AIDE: PEOPLE UNDERSTAND THE REALITY; May 15, 2008 6:58 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: I find it funny that in November Hillary, Bill, and Chelsea will be voting for OBAMA ... and Yakama, Aunt Jean, and Jim will be voting for McCain.

Yep - pretty strange indeed!; May 15, 2008 7:01 PM
November Politics said...: "Yakama, Aunt Jean, and Jim will be voting for McCain."

Actually I am pretty sure Jim said he'll vote for Obama if he is the democratic nominee. Which is very smart of him, unlike the other two.; May 15, 2008 7:03 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: jpsedona said: "Asked if there had been a change in message, a top Clinton aide told NBC News, "People understand the reality, but they are still loyal to her.""
________________________

That is what the problem right now is - many of the Hillary supporters DON'T understand the 'reality' and she needs to start to explain it to them. Just like she said yesterday that '... voting for McCain over Obama is a GRAVE ERROR..."

She needs to start YELLING from the rooftops to her supporters (especially the lower educated/lower income folks) that everyone needs to get behind Obama ASAP so that we can defeat McCain in November by a huge margin!

.; May 15, 2008 7:14 PM
RobH said...: Heard a great line early this AM.
Everybody's to a post-mortem on HRC's campaign, right? What did she do wrong, what was her big mistake?

One commentator's take: Her biggest mistake was moving to NY. She should have moved back 'home' to Illinois. Then a certain current Senator there would not have his seat.....; May 15, 2008 7:34 PM
Hippolytus said...: Jim,
I have to admit that I'm not above feeling some schadenfreude, given the way that Hillary crossed the line several times during this campaign. Sometimes, nice guys do finish first.; May 15, 2008 7:39 PM
Hippolytus said...: I wish that Matt and Oreo would show a graph with Hillary's superdelegate lead to the left, and Obama's to right. It would make a great big smiley face!; May 15, 2008 7:45 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Hippolytus-

Here is the line for Hillary's lead \
Obama's lead /
put them together and you get

\/

V for Victory :)

OBAMA '08; May 15, 2008 7:55 PM
Anonymous said...: Hippo,
You could be right. If it ends up Obama and McCain.
Both are nice guys.
I like McCain, but not his politics.
I don't like Obama, but agree with his politics.
But, then I did not like Kerry, however it was the old refrain, the lesser of two evils, so I voted for him.; May 15, 2008 7:56 PM
suzihussein22 said...: woodland sprite-Yep, American names wouldn't drag us down.(sarcasm) Immigration would be greatly restricted. After all, this isn't a melting pot anymore, eh? My name translates closest to a Cherokee princess in E TN, but my parents didn't know about her, so that blows that logic, if Y and his Penn names ever had it. I also have a few thoughts on local issues.

Yep, I've thought of Monty Python a couple of times myself.

eddie-I've got cannibals in my closet? Guilty by association! :)Thank you so much for the info!

Ariane-Dick Clark would say, 'Keep your feet on the ground, keep reaching for the stars. I've been accused of being optimistic myself.WC said he would vote for hope above fear.

E R D-#4 applies to me.lol

Jim-Thank you for saying you would support Obama if HRC doesn't get nominated. I would do the reverse.; May 15, 2008 7:57 PM
countjellybean said...: Here's another element for the Hillary post-mortem. Not only did Hillary Clinton not consult with leading economists before announcing her support for the gas tax holiday, she threw them under the bus when she was challenged on that point. This has the following implications for any future Clinton administration:

1. She will not be able to claim that she is willing to follow the advice of experts.

2. She will not be able to claim that she is willing to listen to the advice of people who disagree with her, or give them the respect they deserve.

3. The people she does choose as advisors will be regarded as having been selected for their political loyalty, not for their expertise or objectivity, and will therefore lack credibility within the body politic. This is similar to the current administration. Alberto Gonzalez, Harriet Miers and Michael Brown are just three of the names of people who lacked the qualifications for their positions but were selected because of theor loyalty to the chief.; May 15, 2008 8:01 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Jim-

Thank you.
I am glad that you at least think that Obama is the lesser of two evils when compared to McCain.

The issues are what matter here the most.
The war.
The economy.
The Supreme Court Justices.
Guantanamo.
Habeas Corpus.
Civil rights.
Upholding the U.S. Constitution.
Etc...

.; May 15, 2008 8:06 PM
jpsedona said...: count,

As far as Myers & Gonzalez are concerned, they at least had some background in law.

Michael Brown on the other hand is in a class all his own. No skill. No judgement. No guts (substitue other word). How could someone who had zero organizational skills be the best choice for that job? He was commissioner of some horse association before FEMA... yeah, that's the type of skills we need in Washington.; May 15, 2008 8:08 PM
Anonymous said...: countjellybean said...
Here's another element for the Hillary post-mortem. Not only did Hillary Clinton not consult with leading economists before announcing her support for the gas tax holiday, she threw them under the bus"
Thank goodness she threw the under, economists are a group of
idiots who have no common sense.; May 15, 2008 8:10 PM
jpsedona said...: Jim,

To quote Bill Clinton, "It's the economy, stupid!" ... maybe another pearl of wisdom he didn't pass on to her campaign. So you think it's possible that he doesn't want her to win?; May 15, 2008 8:13 PM
Anonymous said...: Well, got to log off. Someone call Dave in NC and let him know. Invite "both" back.
Until AM.; May 15, 2008 8:13 PM
Kujo said...: Yamaka,

Sorry I don't believe in your sterio types.

I am a social liberal but a fiscal conservative, I do not feel Clinton is any different in fiscal approach then Obama.

The Right Wing has tried to paing Obama as Liberal from the start because they new he would be someone they would have to deal with in future (which is now).

But for me to judge, I do not listen to what adjectives someone uses to discribe someone, I listen to their ideas and policies and make up my mind myself.

In policies, the difference bewteen Obama and Clinton is very little. This is what I observed as well as reconginezed leaders in the financial communtity. Yes they have difference, but small.

So why do I support Obama over Clinton.

1B. Implementation (domestic). There might be many good ways to solve a problem. Republicans might have a plan and the Democrates might have a plan. Either plan may work. Yes one might be better then the other, but both is better then none. I the last 16 years the problem with our country is the constent battling in congress and nothing getting done. One good example of this is Health Care. In the 1990's Clinton headed up a commision on Health Care. This went know where and was finally dropped. One of undisputed strong parts of Obama's record is his ability to work with everyone, no matter what side of the isle he is on.

1B. Implementation (International) The opion of the US has dropped significantly over the last 16 years. The respect we receive, the trust of our government is at an all time low. If there is a chance to improving the conditions around the world I feel he is the strongest in this category.

2. Baggage. In normal politics, polititions work more for there core support (high paid supports, narrow interest groups) and not for the people. While they talk a big storm about what they plan on doing for the people, they are truely working for a small group of people. This problem exists more in the Republican party (in my opinion) then in the Democratic party. It has been Obvious that the Clinton's are guilty of this as well. I believe her Health Care plan is an example of this. It makes people think it is a good thing because they will have health insurance, but she is not addressing the problem with health care, the cost. If you lower the cost and make it affordable, then people can have it. But if you just force people to have health care, who is going to pay? More Taxes's

Please don't fall for the republican ploy of grouping Obama as a liberal. Use some thought and foresight.; May 15, 2008 8:17 PM
Hippolytus said...: Bush made an error by calling Obama an appeaser, and McCain bought it hook, line, and sinker by comparing Obama to Neville Chamberlain. McCain better bone up on his history, because he is going to be blistered by Obama in the debates on this goof.; May 15, 2008 8:17 PM
Hippolytus said...: Gen. Custer to Hillary:
"Every once and awhile, it's a good idea to look back and see if the cavalry is behind you."

Satchel Paige to Hillary:
"Don't look back. Somebody may be gaining on you."; May 15, 2008 8:29 PM
Aunt Jean said...: AUNTY JEAN...

If you cant see Obama is the nominee you must be a short bus kid.

I'll bet any amount of money that your toothless family has saved up and cover any bet that you want to make regarding HRC getting the nomination.

It is over... I hear you singing right now... sing fat lady (with cats in the chorus) sing!!!

Obama 08

HRC NEVER!!!!!

PS... Bill would never have gotten caught if she was doing the white house laundry like she should have been. Couldn't she get the stains out of Monica's dress in time?

PPS... Aunty Jean, how are you at laundry?

May 14, 2008 9:45 PM

Listen you sorry piece of crap don't ever talk to me like that again it's people like you that has made this world like it is. I don't care what you think I look like or my family, I can handle trash like you but don't ever say anything about my family you have crossed the line. It people like you that are dirt under my feet that the person you support they don't want to have anything to do with that person because they bring the roaches out of the wood work like you. Jean; May 15, 2008 8:40 PM
Aunt Jean said...: The post at 8:40 pm was for that trash {JAYW] not for anyone else. Jean; May 15, 2008 8:53 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: "Asked if there had been a change in message, a top Clinton aide told NBC News, "People understand the reality, but they are still loyal to her.""
________________________
________________________

That is what the problem right now is - many of the Hillary supporters DON'T understand the 'reality' and she needs to start to explain it to them. Just like she said yesterday that '... voting for McCain over Obama is a GRAVE ERROR..."

She needs to start YELLING from the rooftops to her supporters (especially the lower educated/lower income folks) that everyone needs to get behind Obama ASAP so that we can defeat McCain in November by a huge margin!

Support our next President of the UNITED States of America - OBAMA '08; May 15, 2008 8:54 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Leah the reason Hillary didn't switch to republican SILLY girl she's not a republican. Jean; May 15, 2008 9:15 PM
Mike in Maryland said...: Hippolytus said...
Gen. Custer to Hillary:
"Every once and awhile, it's a good idea to look back and see if the cavalry is behind you."

Hippolytus -

Good advice.

And I thank you of speaking of my 4th cousin, 4 times removed (General Custer, that is), in such a respectable manner!

He also could tell Hillary a thing or two about how poor planning, and/or bad assumptions, and/or poor execution, can lead to disastrous consequences. Of course, he would have to tell her that from the grave.

They say hindsight is 100% correct (not always true, but close). But what is left out is that hindsight is only of use when you're still living (or viable), otherwise you can't adjust your course away from those mistakes.

Mike; May 15, 2008 9:26 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Leah you know good and well that is a ball face lie about caucus. At our place there was only 2 young people there the rest were 50,s and only 1 elderly lady so don't sit there and say things like you did. Also in other areas they were talking about how unfair the caucuses were to some groups of people.Also dream on about Ca. it's just wishful thinking on your part. Jean; May 15, 2008 9:31 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Hey Obama supporters guess what one of the people you think would be a good VP for obama was working for clinton [richardson] daaaaa Jean; May 15, 2008 9:35 PM
RobH said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; May 15, 2008 9:40 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Kujo it just goes to show that people want to hear what they want to hear. Hillary wants to put a cap within reason on what insurance co. can charge. No body can be turned down. Help with getting insurance if you can't afford it. Jean; May 15, 2008 9:41 PM
RobH said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; May 15, 2008 9:47 PM
RobH said...: Anybody want to start talking about VP's?
Here's a list of about all the names I've heard as possibilities, with my thumbnail sketch. Pro's first line, cons in parentheses, second line.

Would love to read comments, suggestions, agreements, disagreements, and determine if consensus.

Thanks.

Frontrunners who are not former candidates

Webb
secures VA, military cred, former Repub, straight shooter
(sexist?)

Sebilius
female, Catholic, reputation as fiscally savvy, red state
(relatively inexperienced, invites “too much change” attack)

Rendell
secures PA, attracts HRC supporters, great campaigner
(we’ll PA get anyway, seen as ‘old politics’)

Strickland
secures OH, attracts HRC supporters
(unknown)

Nunn
centrist, gravitas
(age, another Senator?, in line for Chief of Staff?)

Former Candidates other than HRC (she’s in next group)

Richardson
Latino vote, strong diplomatic and energy cred
(we’ll get Latino’s anyway, int in SoS, weak campaigner?)

Biden
foreign policy cred
(another Senator?, int in Sec/State?)

Edwards
youth, vigor, poverty plank, secures his supporters
(damaged goods?, invites ‘elitist’ attack, int in Supreme Court)

Special cases

Clinton
unifies ticket, secures her supporters
(discourages indep?, high negs, Bill’s role?, ‘court intrigue’)

Gore
extraordinary international rep
(would he even want it? awkward to be VP a second time)

Hagel
cross party unification, military cred, ‘blue collar’ support?
(unknown)

Dark Horses

McCaskill
female, swing state
(can she deliver MO?, another ‘freshman’ Senator?)

Kaine
secures VA, strong ‘faith’ candidate
(unknown)

Clark
strong campaigner, supposed military cred
(no elective office experience, creeps me out)

Napolitano
female, geographic balance?
(rep as a bad gov. re immigration?, lose AZ anyway)

Bayh
attracts HRC supporters
(can’t deliver his own state); May 15, 2008 9:49 PM
RobH said...: Man, that was too long, here's just the list.My apologies to Sen. Dodd.

Comments?

Frontrunners who are not former candidates

Webb
Sebilius
Rendell
Strickland
Nunn

Former Candidates other than HRC (she’s in next group)

Richardson
Biden
Edwards

Special cases

Clinton
Gore
Hagel

Dark Horses

McCaskill
Kaine
Clark
Napolitano
Bayh; May 15, 2008 9:52 PM
Kujo said...: Aunt Jean,

I did hear those exact words. The problem with CAP means keep prices at a fixed cost. Where is the fixed cost. Capping is a very vage term, usually refering to a price where it is now or a little higher. If someone intends to cap and drop they usually will speak of that. The problem with the health care is prices need to be lowered. This is what Obama stresses. This is where the prices in other countries are. HRC health care plan is focused on forcing everyone to have health care and having the government oversee this.

If your saying HRC intends on CAPPING at a lower fee, then the only difference between Obama's plan and HRC plan is that she includes that Insurance is MANDITORY. I am a firm believer that health care is not like seat belts. People want health care. If it is lower they will have it. I don't want to add buearacracy to oversee that everyone who can afford it, buys it. I am of the opinion if they can afford it and choses not to get it, then it is there own fault. I want my tax dollars to go somewhere else.

The problem with Health Care is cost and it needs to be reduced.; May 15, 2008 10:05 PM
Unknown said...: Kujo,

well said; May 15, 2008 10:07 PM
Emit R Detsaw said...: My lean is towards:

Sebilius
female, Catholic, reputation as fiscally savvy, red state

But you left out that she is pulls in the Clinton Demographic of older female. She is after all, a 60 year old white woman. Just like Clinton.

Sebilius is not inexperienced. She is a 2 term Democratic Governor from a long time Republican state. Brought down debt and worked bypartism issues very well. She also has taken on the insurance industry and won.

She also brings in the Ohio vote. Her dad was a very popular governor in Ohio.

She was one of 8 female politicians that were looked at as possible female presidential candidates that could actually win the oval office.

This would set up for a woman in the WH in 2016 elections to fill the seat of outgoing President Obama!; May 15, 2008 10:08 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Leah your 8:54 pm is a very racist remark from some of your comments your level of education is questionable. You are saying and please don't try and say [that's not what I meant] because that is exactly what you meant. People that vote, back, endorse or like Hillary or STUPID uneducated people you are NO BETTER than they are [ I changed my mine they are better than you] at least they don't go around saying racist remarks like you just did.Are you sure the clintons will be voting for obama? Has anybody ever told you that you petty person { ops I think I just did]LOL LOL Jean; May 15, 2008 10:19 PM
Yamaka said...: "Parrots all,
I do not find a scintilla of knowledge in most of your posts"

jim:

Amen well said.

:-)
__________________________________

Hello Folks: Good Evening. I had a wonderful Power Walk 5 miles, and I swam for an hour in my pool! Life is wonderful, indeed. Praise the Lord.

________________________________

This is the Political Season, therefore Satire and Ridicule are in order.

Here is another Satirical Conversation with Sen BHO Jr.
Enjoy. Don't get upset with me!

--Good evening Senator BHO. You look beaming and charming - for you are the front-runner. How are you Sir?

--Well, Yamaka. How come you forgot to greet me in the traditional Arabic, which I love very much.

When you say, Assalamu Alaikum, I get the nostalgia of my early wonderful days in Indonesia - that gives me a good comfortable feeling of being very close to some one, although I hate you, I very much love you because you greet me in Arabic.

Well, Yamaka, I expected an avalanche of SDs running into my lap soon after Edwards' endorsement. Alas, not much. There are still 265 SDs uncommitted. Maybe, most of them are Hillary's people. They don't believe in my rhetorical eloquence. Ahaa.. Now I know, what they are worried about me, of my Master Projects:

1. Reparation for American Blacks.

I will give several thousand dollars for every Black person in this country every year for 4 years, at least.

2. Worldwide Tour to meet our Enemies on Their Turf:

I will meet with first Osama Bin Laden and Aiyman at their Cave in NW Frontier of Pakistan. Our agenda will be as to how to modernize the Al-Qeida's arsenal and the Army. This is very important - it is a safety mechanism against the possible US attack on them! This comes under the broad umbrella of "Change".

Then I will meet with Mahmood Ahamed'jad of Iran. There our agenda is to give nuclear technology and/or nuclear weapons already mounted on to short and long rang missiles. This will give Iran the ability to hit anybody they want. This is an issue of their freedom. This again comes under the broad umbrella of "Change"

Hi..Hi...Ha... Ha...Our Change Agenda will be huge and monumental!

--Senator, sorry I am getting really dizzy. You have only 59 TD more than Hillary, who is leading in Popular Votes, and here you are thinking of monumental "Changes"!

Senator, you are too way too ahead of yourself. Hold on, first focus on how to beat Hillary in KY and PR.

--Yama, now I get very angry at you! What's wrong in dreaming the dream of our lives; whether you realize all those dreams or not, you got to dream. That's the essence of living.

Yama, don't worry about the remaining 5 Contests. I may get 1 or 2 States. So What? I have already campaigned in 57 States so far. I can't do anymore. Now I am in the business of dreaming big and thinking of Mega Changes for our enemies.

Forget about our economy, health care and other nonsense. All issues are for weaklings like HRC and Edwards. They won't be the POTUS. I have the thinest resume in the entire world. I can handle any thing coming our way!!

Experience and understanding of policy and all those are for Bill Clinton. Who wants Bill anymore!!! Ha....Ha... I kicked him on his shin many times!!

--Senator, Hold On, Sir. First you have to get the Nomination. Most SDs don't believe you! Don't you see this? Anyway, you are drunk and you are hallucinating! I got to run. Insha Allah, we will meet again. Assalamu Alaikum.

--Bye, Yama the God of Death. Allahu Akbar Mohammed Rassoolilahi Allahu Akbar.

_____________________________

Oh, Folks, another funny stuff, if you want to read it.

:-); May 15, 2008 10:26 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Aunt Jean said:" Leah you know good and well that is a ball face lie about caucus. At our place there was only 2 young people there the rest were 50,s and only 1 elderly lady so don't sit there and say things like you did."

___________________

aunt jean-
You WERE NOT at my precinct caucus so you have no idea what you are talking about.

Stop attacking me. You are being rude.; May 15, 2008 10:40 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Aunt Jean said: "Leah your 8:54 pm is a very racist remark from some of your comments your level of education is questionable."
____________________

Aunt Jean-

1) You need to reread my post at 8:54

2) Go look up the word 'racist' in an English dictionary.

3) My post had NOTHING it in about RACE.

Stopping lying about me.; May 15, 2008 10:44 PM
Hippolytus said...: Jim said:
"Parrots all,
I do not find a scintilla of knowledge in most of your posts"

Jim, perhaps you need a pair of glasses to correct your myopia. Is your last name "Magoo," by any chance?

I do get a kick out of your reference to us "parrots," though.

"May the force be with you."
Signed, Obama-Wan Kenobi; May 15, 2008 10:48 PM
Yamaka said...: BHO's Lemmings:

Dubya has thrown a grenade at your beloved Leader!

What say you all?

I expected all you you to march to Washington DC for a mass hunger strike against the poison tinged words of Dumb Dubya!

Why the hell are you all sitting on your big fat rear? Stand up and march forward!

Oh, no. Stop your Leader has a long way to clinch the Nomination! Forget it for now!!
:-); May 15, 2008 10:52 PM
Hippolytus said...: Yamaka,
McCain will come to regret that he chose to echo Bush's gun slinger sentiments. If McCain wants do paint himself further into the corner that Bush has begun to paint, that's good news for our side. There's a world of difference between open dialogue and appeasement.; May 15, 2008 11:04 PM
Mike in Maryland said...: Yamakamikaze said...
Dubya has thrown a grenade at your beloved Leader!

Dumbya THOUGHT he was throwing a grenade.

Problem is that the Senator he quoted was a Republican.

From the New York Times:
Mr. Bush said. “We have heard this foolish delusion before. As Nazi tanks crossed into Poland in 1939, an American senator declared: 'Lord, if I could only have talked to Hitler, all this might have been avoided.' "

The Times article continues with:
"The president was alluding to Senator William E. Borah, an Idaho Republican noted for his powers of oratory and his isolationist views. In 1938, when Hitler was gobbling up parts of Europe, Borah expressed admiration for him, and in 1939 he did indeed lament that he had not been able to talk to Hitler before the Nazi invasion of Poland."

Yamakamikaze, you need to make sure that your Republican Talking Points cannot so easily be laughed out of the public square before you spout them like the parrot you are.

Mike; May 15, 2008 11:04 PM
Oregon Dem said...: Aunt Jean: What on earth was racist in Leah's 8:54pm post? I read it twice and could not even imagine what you were talking about.

Yam: Two things - First none of your other predictions have come true with regard to how the super delegates will fall so tell me why I should believe you this time. I am all ears. How long now have you stated that ALL of the rest of the SDs are Senator Clinton supporters?

Second - When Obama wins the nomination with well over half the delegates, please do not start blogging for him, or for that matter any democratic candidate. I, for one, do not want someone of your persuasion blogging for any democratic candidate. But, you could amuse me for a second, type up your first blog supporting Obama when he crosses your threshold which is either when 2210delegates are Obama's OR "the woman in a pant suit" HRC says it is over. By the way, even though I am an Obama supporter I take offense at you calling Senator Clinton that.

Woodland Sprite: That makes you a voter in Oregon's 5th CD. Obama needs votes there. So I will bite - you opened your ballot and maybe even voted - may I ask for whom? Oh and PS that would make you live somewhere near Welches so you are a woodland sprite - lol.

To those debating over VP candidate and how it may help. I am still neutral. I do not think I have every voted for a ticket because of the person in the VP part of the ticket.

Finally, I think it was Mike in Maryland who said He would have voted for Barbra Jordon if he ever could have. I have a story to tell. I have voted in every presidental election since I could (1972) and have always voted for the democratic candidate, but one time I did not vote for the democratic nominee...

How could that be true you ask?

Because in 1976 I just could not vote for Jimmy Carter so I voted using my right to write in a person for President. I wrote in the person I best thought should be the President of our great country - Barbara Jordon.

I will not bore you with a long story on why I did that.

Later; May 15, 2008 11:08 PM
Yamaka said...: "Dumbya THOUGHT he was throwing a grenade."

RodentinMD:

What Dubya thought is what is relevant here.

He cleverly gave a nose-bleeding jab at your Leader, the Skinny Guy With the Funny Name!

What are you going to do, Rodent?

:-(
________________________________

Ore Dem:

My point has been this

1. BHO has NOT clinched the Nomination as yet.

2. He leads in TD by 59 and HRC leads in Popular Votes by about 29.4K, which could go much higher by June 3.

3. Still there are 265 SDs still left at this minute - my prediction is most of them about 200-210 will move to HRC between June 3 and 31.

4. Her constituency is broader and deeper representing about 55%, while his is shallow and narrower about 45%: In NJ 9.9%, PA 9.2% CA 8.3% OH 8.7% FL 16.9% margin that HRC won.

5. The reason why this % is not reflected in TDs because of Caucuses where many of her constituency is structurally forbidden to vote: many women, working folks and older voters did not go to Caucuses, because they are time consuming and cumbersome. Example, in TX she won the Primary but lost very narrowly in the Caucus. Therefore, the TDs is just an artificial situation not reflecting what really happens in American Electorates, who are mostly for HRC, IMO. This basic fact is apparent to most of the SDs. That's why they are NOT going towards BHO that fast. They are waiting for the Contests to get over.

Wait and see.

:-); May 15, 2008 11:27 PM
Hippolytus said...: Leah,
Don't worry; Hillary will be yelling from the rooftops for Barack before too long. The question is whether her followers will do as she asks. I suspect that all but the unthinking ones will realize that she and Obama are not very far apart on the issues, and that they will have no other place to go unless they want to shoot themselves (and the country) in the foot. Heck, even ardent Clintonites (who are understandably hurting right now) might see the light by November (at least, let's hope so). It will be like the flack that McCain got from the far right just before he went over the top... the sabre-rattling and hard feelings will subside by November.; May 15, 2008 11:29 PM
UUbuntu said...: Thank your RobH, for trying to change the conversation.

In the VP stakes, I like Gore first, but he may not be interested in the job. If he's interested though, he would be the best possibility of bridging the old and the new, and would add instant credibility to Obama's stances on the environment.

Beyond Gore though, other possibilities I like include Richardson, Bob Casey (a better choice than Rendell in PA), Mark Warner of VA (though he may not be interested), or -- in a risky move -- Michael Bloomberg of NY.

I like Sebelius, though her recent speech did nothing for me, and Jim Webb seems to have a lot of people excited, though he seems a bit too close to the old Reagan adminstration for my comfort.

I prefer the Attorney General post for Edwards (and so should he), and I prefer Defense Secretary for Wes Clark.

Unfortunately, nobody (other than Gore) strikes me as a WOW choice, but since we seem to have a WOW candidate to begin with, that may be a good thing.

Again, thank you RobH for changing this conversation.; May 15, 2008 11:32 PM
Aunt Jean said...: kujo she wants to lower insurance then put a cap. Also obama is going to make it manditory for children just not adults.I don't know [but could be wrong] if you get insurance for your children it will have to be a family coverage. I've never known where you can get private insurance just for kids. Jean; May 15, 2008 11:33 PM
Oregon Dem said...: Yam: Where the heck were you going with that comment "Dubya threw a grenade at your leader."

First: I do not respect anything that Dubya says anymore and no democrat should.

Second: If I got the news right with respect to the timing it was Senator Clinton who responded first and called that "grenade" shameless and completely ridiculous.

I really am starting to believe you are just some republicam troll hanging out here to write reublican talking points to test out how it riles up our party.

On the other hand if you came out and told us how excactly you became a Senator Clinto delegate from Texas I am all ears...; May 15, 2008 11:36 PM
Bob in Vancouver said...: Hippolytus:

I totally agree with you. There is a vast difference between open dialogue and appeasement.

Appeasement is giving in to (or handing over) the demands of the oponent. Open diologue is discussing differences without yielding a single thing.

If the Obama campaign is smart, they could easily turn this back on Bush and McCain. They could make them look like total fools.

Not talking to the oposition is WEAK KNEES. What's the good of standing around in the WH wring your hands, when there are global problems to get resolved.

Yeh remember Nixon and Moe
Regan and Gorbachev
Dick Chanie and Sadam Hussein.; May 15, 2008 11:39 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Leah I hate to burst your bubble but Hillary's wins in WV OK ARK MASS wipes out obama's wins in those states I didn't use what Hillary just how many votes were the % obama lost in her states used only 1 that had him a lost of 40% the rest was 30 or less. Doesn't look so good does it.If you use florida it does away all of them except Ill by half. Now that is some wins. Jean; May 15, 2008 11:39 PM
Kujo said...: Yamaka,

When counting the popular vote you keep counting Florida and Michigan. My question is why stop there. Why not count her Senate runs too. For that matter you can add on Bills elections too.

In fact if your going to make up rules, why not say Yamaka's vote counts for 1,000,000,000,000,000?; May 15, 2008 11:42 PM
Mike in Maryland said...: I have a new theory on Yamakamikaze:

He is a resurrected zombie from the old Roman Republic.

Julius Caesar reformed the Roman calendar, and from his time forward, June has had 30 days.

Yet Yamakamikaze wrote:
between June 3 and 31

This means Yamakamikaze has to be more than 2,050 years old, since Caesar died in 44 BCE.

Kinda scary to think that we've been reading and responding to such a zombie, isn't it?

Mike

P.S., Yamakamikaze - it used to be that some of us were laughing with you on some of your claims and fantasies. Now it is almost unanimous that we are laughing AT you.; May 15, 2008 11:48 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Martin l e t m e e x p l a i n:
the post was for leah not you she will know what I'm talking about. So keep your wormy little mind out of it. DS Jean; May 15, 2008 11:50 PM
tmess2 said...: While people don't directly vote for the VP, it does say something about the candidate -- if you take the time to read between the lines correctly.

For example take Bush's pick of Cheney, at the time, it was seen as comforting that he was going to include experienced Washington folks in the Administration (comforting to voters worried about the experience questions). Looked at with hindsight, what it really showed was that he was most comfortable surrounded by loyalists rather than seeking diverse opinions.

For Obama, he has four general types of signals that he could give:

1) Pick a Governor -- shows an understanding of the importance of executive experience in the Administration (something that neither he nor McCain has).

2) Pick someone with Defense/Foreign Policy Experience -- shows an understanding of the importance of this area during a time of conflict. (For Senator McCain, the equivalent would be someone known for Domestic Policy.)

3) Pick a Clinton supporter -- shows respect for those who voted for Senator Clinton.

4) Pick someone new (either lesser known Governor or relatively new Congressman or Senator) -- emphasizes change.

We are going to hear a lot of names mentioned over the next 4-5 weeks in both parties. Certain people will almost certainly not be considered because they are needed in another race this year (e.g. Mark Warner of Virginia who is worth more as a Senate candidate than as a Vice-President).

The real question maybe who can force the other to go first. Senator McCain might like to sit back and see who Obama picks, but he can't afford with the finances to let Obama run a very public selection process taking most of June and July that dominates the media followed by an announcement a week or two before the convention (which would be how I would try to run it if I were on Obama's campaign staff).; May 15, 2008 11:52 PM
Emit R Detsaw said...: tmess2 - actually, the Republicans have their convention first, and thus will have to announce their's first if Obama wants to wait.; May 15, 2008 11:55 PM
Hippolytus said...: Tyler, Mark, and anybody else interested in discussing VPs -

Tyler makes some good points, although I'm not sure that Casey would be better than Rendell. Rendell can be a loose canon (by his own admission), but he's a likable guy that would soothe the rift. I like Casey personally, but he strikes me as a little more effete, based on the little I saw him during the PA contest.

I'd personally like to see Sam Nunn, for his gravitas and knowledge (especially regarding nuclear proliferation). He's widely respected on both sides of the aisle. He won't light the world on fire on the stump, but I'm not sure we need that in a #2. I'd like to see Obama pick a Southerner, to make McCain spend resources defending the Southern red states. I admit, I don't know Southern politics that well, but I'd hope that Nunn's coattails could extend as far as Georgia. Having said that, Obama and Edwards made a pretty attractive pair last night.

I think Edwards has all but assured himself the AG post if he wants it, and Clark (or Tony Zinni) would be good as Defense Sec. Biden for State, if he wants it (otherwise, Hagel would be a good bipartisan choice, or Richard Holbrooke a dark horse). I would hope that Obama would let Bill Clinton serve as special Middle East peace envoy, to allow him the chance to finish what he started (also another after-the-fact way of healing the rift with the Clintons).; May 15, 2008 11:58 PM
Yamaka said...: RodentinMD:

I know you are good in finding the typos!

What's your VP choice, Rodent?

It is like having a baby-shower when the parents have difficulty conceiving!

Get a life, Lemmings.

First Let your Leader clinch 2210 the Legitimate Hurdle, before you talk about VP! Michelle is my choice!!

For sure it will not be 2025. It will be closer to 2210, believe me.

:-(; May 16, 2008 12:00 AM
Bob in Vancouver said...: This blog is like talking to the converted, except for the odd blogger who makes absolutley no sense.

Where can I go to cause trouble? Reading stuff from Aunt Jean and Yamaka is no fun anymore.; May 16, 2008 12:02 AM
Aunt Jean said...: leah I guess you don't know what racist means you need to look it up. It's not always used or mean pertaining to race as in skin color. I guess you need to reread your post. Jean; May 16, 2008 12:03 AM
Mike in Maryland said...: Emit R Detsaw said...
actually, the Republicans have their convention first, and thus will have to announce their's first if Obama wants to wait

Incorrect.

The Democratic Convention is scheduled for Monday 25 August through Thursday 28 August 2008, while the Republican Convention is scheduled for a week later, Monday 1 September (Labor Day) through Thursday 4 September 2008 (the date of the first NFL game of the season).

This holds to the tradition that the party holding the White House has its convention after the other party.

Mike; May 16, 2008 12:04 AM
Oregon Dem said...: Yam: Interesting response to my questions to you.

Let me try again.

My questions was: You have been wrong on how the Super Delegates would fall for Senator Clinton all along. Why should I believe you know?

You did not answer that question and just came back with Caucasus don't count and other sorts of unsubstiantiated rhetoric.

It is quite OK in my mind for you to be ardent in support of your candidate, but quite honestly - if Senator Clinto read some of the rubish you have written here she would wonder who on earth vetted you to be a delegate for her. My guess is that if she saw your trash she would fire the person that vetted you as a delegate for her.

PS to Aunt Jean: Please keep up your ardent support for Senator Clinton. Though I still what like to know what you "see" in him that makes you say your instincts tell you not to trust him.

and one more question Aunt Jean (no insult to you intended) but don't you take offense to Yam calling Senator Clinton a "woman in a pant suit?" To me anyway that is condesending to Senator Clinton and if I republican said it I would slap him / her across the face (literally not necessarily figuratively).; May 16, 2008 12:07 AM
suzihussein22 said...: I got to see a rare early evening rainbow. WOW! Our roads are an obstacle course of hippity-hops now that we seem to be recovering from last year's drought. We were on water restrictions for several months, so our cars got pretty dusty.

I've been wondering how the VP is going to be selected. Things I think are going to be considered: age, foreign relations experience, and someone who can pick up the states Obama was weaker in.TN was one of those. Gore even lost us. That was a big surprise.

Woodland Sprite-local issues-Our issues are similar to national issues. The economy and immigration. Can you believe TN is tied having the highest tax rate in the US? We've thrown around a state income tax. We've had an increase in illegal immigrants probably because we have a lot of agricultural areas.; May 16, 2008 12:09 AM
Aunt Jean said...: About those ants I believe that their name is the rasberry ants and they love electric wiring.Over the counter poison has no affect on them .Jean; May 16, 2008 12:11 AM
November Politics said...: Anyone know where Sen. Obama just got 6 pledged delegates from? Thanks in advance :); May 16, 2008 12:14 AM
Oregon Dem said...: Aunt Jean: OK I read Leah's post for a third time - are you saying that Leah made a racist comment because she said that Senator Clinton should tell "especially the lower educated / lower income folks?" to get on board with the democratic nominee?

If so, I do not agree. We know that Senator Clinton's demographic is both that group and older white women. There is no judgement in that it is just a fact.; May 16, 2008 12:15 AM
Aunt Jean said...: bov in vancouver you have never been fun reading. Jean; May 16, 2008 12:16 AM
Yamaka said...: "offense to Yam calling Senator Clinton a "woman in a pant suit?" To me anyway that is condesending to Senator Clinton"

Ore Dem:

(Rodent will be upset you have a spelling problem here.)

This is a funny remark HRC herself made during her Victory Speech in WV!

I will never use anything disrespectful to her, believe me.

On another issue: We are all predicting at this point who will clinch the Nomination.

Lemmings go for BHO

I go for HRC for the reasons I cited.

If you don't believe what I say, then just go back to your Choir/Echo Chamber and recite this:

Oooooba...ma...Oooommmmm Obsamma..

till July 1 to know who will get most of the SDs!

Where is the problem?

:-(; May 16, 2008 12:19 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: November politics-

The top side box was updated with the 6 North Carolina pledged delegates that switched to Obama from Edwards when Edwards released them.

So now needed to win nomination:

Obama 126
Clinton 309

.; May 16, 2008 12:25 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Kujo I understand where you are coming from but do you relize the money that the gov. puts out on people that doesn't have insurance a heck of a lot. Now it's time for people to start pulling their weight and get insurance I'm tired of paying for it.If you can't afford it you will get help so that's a moot point . Now for those that can afford it just don't want to put that money out for it now that's a different story those are the people that I don't want a penny of my money to go to. Jean; May 16, 2008 12:26 AM
Aunt Jean said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; May 16, 2008 12:27 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Talking about V.P.

Gov. Rendell WILL NOT be in the running for V.P. I believe he will NOT be on the short list.

There is a video on YouTube from when Governor Rendell attended a Lewis Farrakhan dinner and the video shows Gov. Rendell PRAISING Farrakhan.

I will try to find the link and post it here.

AND YES THIS IS THE SAME GOVERNOR RENDELL THAT SUPPORTED HILLARY AND THE MEDIA DIDN'T SAY ANYTHING ABOUT Rendell and Farrakhan!; May 16, 2008 12:28 AM
Mike in Maryland said...: Aunt Jean said...
leah I guess you don't know what racist means you need to look it up. It's not always used or mean pertaining to race as in skin color.

According to Dictionary.com:
Racism:
1. a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.
2. a policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering such a doctrine; discrimination.
3. hatred or intolerance of another race or other races.

American Heritage Dictionary:
Racism:
1. The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others.
2. Discrimination or prejudice based on race.

Looks like the word 'racist' references a belief system based on whether there is a difference between races.

Now what were you saying? That Leah's comment that "(the lower educated/lower income folks)" is racist?

Don't you know that 90% of African-Americans are supporters of Senator Clinton right now, and have been since South Carolina? I'm sure Leah knows that, so she's not discussing AAs in her comment.

Don't you know that there are more (numerically) whites below the poverty line than AAs? I'm sure Leah knows that, so she's not discussing AAs in her comment.

Don't you know that 'working-class Americans' has been defined by Senator Clinton as meaning 'Whites', and 'working-class Americans' is used by some as code to mean lower educated?

You and other Clinton supporters disparage supporters of Senator Obama as 'blacks and effete wealthy'. The 'black' part of those disparagements is racist, in my book.

Mike; May 16, 2008 12:29 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Leah so about your 6:16 post that is kind of sorry to me if they did that. Stealing votes. Jean

May 16, 2008 12:27 AM; May 16, 2008 12:29 AM
Oregon Dem said...: Yam: The problem is you still have not answered my question.

Let me repeat it for the third time.

Why should anyone believe your prediction about how many super delegates will break for Senator Clinton when you have not been right on who the super delegates will go for before?

If you want to argue Caucus states do not count in Super Delegate's minds - OK - but then answer this question: Senator Clinton and you have tried that arguement for weeks now - and what has the super delegate split been?

If I counted correctly Senator Obama is up by well over 40 super delegates this month alone.; May 16, 2008 12:30 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Here you go..

Video of Rendell PRAISING Farrakhan:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=DXum_-8I1TA; May 16, 2008 12:31 AM
Joshua said...: November Politics,

Actually seven, but here are the six you requested: http://tinyurl.com/6crsbk; May 16, 2008 12:34 AM
Hippolytus said...: November Politics
The six are former Edwards supporters. Go to http://demconwatch.blogspot.com/2008/05/what-happens-to-edwards-delegates.html
for info on former Edwards delegates (or go to Superdelegate Endorsements page, and there is a link there).; May 16, 2008 12:35 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Kujo there is one more thing I forgot to tell you.Hillarys and Obama health plan cost just about the same thing. Jean; May 16, 2008 12:36 AM
Oregon Dem said...: OK so i I will say one thing about the VP position on the ticket - having gone to college in Indiana and campaigning for his Dad years ago - I would contemplate Senator Obama having Bayh on his ticket if I were him.

That is all for tonight folks.

Wonder if Yam will ever answer a serious question?; May 16, 2008 12:44 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Oregon Dem and Mike in Maryland-

There is no intelligent way to reason with Aunt Jean.

Thanks for posting the definition of 'racist' for her. Perhaps she'll read it and learn something.

From now on I am not going to read her posts and I am not going to respond to her.

Anyone that can think that I am a racist by what I said in my post earlier is either delusional or uneducated or both.

She has attacked me on this thread several times and I am just going to put her on ignore as of now.

.; May 16, 2008 12:45 AM
Yamaka said...: "She needs to start YELLING from the rooftops to her supporters (especially the lower educated/lower income folks) that everyone needs to get behind Obama ASAP so that we can defeat McCain in November by a huge margin!"

Very funny from Lemmings of the Barack Hussein Bin Obama Jr.

First, he has to jump over the Real Hurdle of 2209 before any such thing is logically possible.

Again, why should she do the job?

He MUST earn the Trophy himself.

How many EVs will he get with just 16.5 million votes in the GE?

FAR LEFT Liberals go the way of Mondale, Dukakis, Kerry and the ilk, the perennial losers!

History will repeat - the SDs know it.; May 16, 2008 12:48 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Yamaka,

I guess you missed the news. Obama and Clinton signed an agreement to do joint fundraising. Part of the money will help her pay off her debt. Hillary knows that Obama will be the nominee. For the remainder of the race she will not attack him. And in fact she has came to his defense over the Hamas attack from the GOP. In the next few days and weeks she will become more and more vocal in her support of Senator Obama.

It is over... now they are just letting the clock run out.; May 16, 2008 12:52 AM
Hippolytus said...: Obama now only needs 126. When is that cavalry of supers going to come to Hillary's rescue to pull her off the tracks, Yamaka? Looks like they've changed jerseys (if they ever were on her side to begin with).; May 16, 2008 12:53 AM
Yamaka said...: "Don't you know that 90% of African-Americans are supporters of Senator Clinton right now, and have been since South Carolina?"

RodentinMD: What nonsense is this? Are you inhaling something?

:-(; May 16, 2008 12:57 AM
Joshua said...: Leah, for the life of me I can’t figure out why you engage Aunt Jean in banter. I only began posting here yesterday and I have concluded that she is illiterate and incorrigible. You cannot convince her to vote for Obama. That is why I don’t understand Obama voters who think that by being “nice” to Hillary supporters they will suddenly see the error of their ways. Anyone who is still supporting Hillary at this point is a lost cause.; May 16, 2008 12:58 AM
Hippolytus said...: Leah,
That's great news. Now we can join the real battle.; May 16, 2008 1:00 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Yamaka said: "Don't you know that 90% of African-Americans are supporters of Senator Clinton right now, and have been since South Carolina?""
_________________

Yamaka,

He made a typo - he meant to say Senator Obama not Senator Clinton.

.; May 16, 2008 1:01 AM
Aunt Jean said...: oregon dem so what you're saying is that there are only low class poor people that vote for her no upper elite would vote for her. I'm sorry that is a RACIST remark. But it doesn't surprise me she is always making RUDE remarks. Jean; May 16, 2008 1:03 AM
Yamaka said...: "In the next few days and weeks she will become more and more vocal in her support of Senator Obama."

Do you know who Joe P. Goebbels was?

Find out!

Why does he NEED her support anyway?

Is he NOT the Master of the Universe in American Politics?; May 16, 2008 1:03 AM
November Politics said...: "only low class poor people that vote for her no upper elite would vote for her."

If anything that is classism, not racism, go read a book for a change.; May 16, 2008 1:08 AM
Aunt Jean said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; May 16, 2008 1:09 AM
Mike in Maryland said...: Leah,

Thank you. Except it was a brain fart, not a typo.

And see, Yamakamikaze, some people CAN admit errors, and not be embarrassed to do so.

It is a mark of immaturity to not be able to admit errors. Hmmm - reminds me of Dumbya not being able to do so, and certain other people I've met in person or otherwise in my life.

Mike; May 16, 2008 1:10 AM
Aunt Jean said...: leah you are the racist that needs to learn something not me you are always acting like you are better than anyone else other than the most of the males on here and most of the time you suck up to them so please quite acting like the queen of sheba.YOU ARE NOT!!!!! Jean; May 16, 2008 1:11 AM
Martin said...: Leah said: There is no intelligent way to reason with Aunt Jean.

Thanks for posting the definition of 'racist' for her. Perhaps she'll read it and learn something.

From now on I am not going to read her posts and I am not going to respond to her.

I honestly believe Aunt Jean is functionally retarded to some degree. I'm guessing her IQ is in the low 80's. Of course, retards have as much of a right to post on the internet as anyone else, but yeah... you're better off not engaging with her. It's a waste of time trying to reason with such a feeble mind.; May 16, 2008 1:14 AM
Hippolytus said...: Yamaka,
Can we at least agree not to pollute this blog with Nazi references? That really does cross a line.
Thanks.; May 16, 2008 1:16 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: RobH-
Comments?
___________

Webb

Sebilius - SebElius (my first choice before but maybe second choice now, because Obama sure did look last night on stage with Edwards)

Rendell - NO WAY see video link I posted in above post!

Strickland
Nunn

Richardson - Probably not, because too many people made an issue about 'what did Obama promise Richardson' back when Richardson endorsed.

Biden - We need him in the Senate.

Edwards - Maybe, maybe not. He might be more useful elsewhere in the administration. He has already got a t-shirt for running for V.P. and he really might not want to do it again. But he looks really good on the stage with Obama and Edwards can give an inspiring speech.

Clinton - NO. Too much baggage. Too much for the GOP to trash the Dems with. Besides, Obama would have to live with the fact that Hillary would be sitting around waiting for him to die so that she could take over --- not a pretty picture.

Gore - No. He'd be better put to use as the head of the Environmental Protection Agency or some such.

Hagel

McCaskill
Kaine
Clark
Napolitano
Bayh; May 16, 2008 1:17 AM
Aunt Jean said...: nov politics maybe you need to read a book like a dictionary [websters] and follow the yellow brick road to where my meaning is. Jean; May 16, 2008 1:21 AM
themann1086 said...: For some more realistic delegate scenarios, I recommend reading 538. Conclusion?

Let's reiterate the most important numbers. If the Edwards delegates, the add-ons, and the remaining pledged delegates fall reasonably in line with expectations [described in the post -ed]:

Obama needs only about 10 more superdelegates to clinch if Florida and Michigan are not seated.

Obama needs only about 55 more superdelegates to endorse him -- about a quarter of the remaining total -- if Florida and Michigan are fully seated according to Clinton's wishes.

Only a DEFCON 1 type of meltdown will prevent Obama from getting the nomination at this point.

Odds are he'll secure the majority of the pledged delegates on Tuesday, rendering any of this moot. But the process will continue to run its course, and in June we'll have our nominee.; May 16, 2008 1:22 AM
Hippolytus said...: Good luck trying to get Al Gore to go back to any bureaucratic position, unless it's a specially designed one for him, where he can right his own ticket (maybe special post-Kyoto climate ambassador).; May 16, 2008 1:23 AM
Yamaka said...: "I honestly believe Aunt Jean is functionally retarded to some degree. I'm guessing her IQ is in the low 80's."

martin:

What kind of a Devil are you? You have crossed the line, moron.

She has all the rights to say whatever and however way she desires.
Just bury yourself in a hot sand and cry!
:-(
______________________________

Hippo:

I see your feathers ruffled!

JPG is the master of propaganda, as you seem to know.
That's what many of you do here!

2209 is the Real Hurdle. After he jumps over, then look for VP!

It is a futile act now!; May 16, 2008 1:24 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: RobH-

I did read something the other day and the journalist was speculating that Senator Obama might have his sights on someone that no one has been talking about. So, I guess we will all just have to wait and see.

Oh, and also which ever one it is that they've been mentioning that is a Republican or Independant (can't remember which or who) - I don't think that would go over very well with the Democratic Party because if Obama were to die while in office then the Dems would want to make sure the the second in line to the oval office was a true Democrat.

Obmaa / Sebelius-Edwards '08; May 16, 2008 1:25 AM
Martin said...: Yamaka, don't worry, her feelings won't get hurt. She can't understand the big words.; May 16, 2008 1:26 AM
Hippolytus said...: Isn't Bayh a little light for VP? Seems like he would be a Dan Quayle, to me.; May 16, 2008 1:29 AM
Aunt Jean said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; May 16, 2008 1:31 AM
Yamaka said...: "the fact that Hillary would be sitting around waiting for him to die so that she could take over --- not a pretty picture."

Very funny.

I thought he is 14 years younger!

Is he going to die sooner because of nicotine overload?

Joe P. Goebbels is getting really very hilarious!

Folks, the couple is having problem in conceiving, why you throw a baby shower already?

Does this make any sense at all?

Hallucination!; May 16, 2008 1:34 AM
November Politics said...: "Folks, the couple is having problem in conceiving, why you throw a baby shower already?"

So that's your response to people who are claiming Sen. Obama is the nominee?

At least it isn't a case of throwing a baby shower for a gay couple trying to conceive a baby. (As would be the case of people who think Hillary still has a shot at the nomination); May 16, 2008 1:40 AM
Aunt Jean said...: oregon dem it's like this you need some work done in the yard so you hire 2 men 1 happens to be a latino and one is an AA .Your friend comes over while you out there showing them what you want done. She can see work being done in the yard.Would you have to say I hired this latino and AA to do my yard work even though your friend can see what they are . So instead of saying I hired these to men to do some work for me. Would you have to point out the fact that 1 was latino and the other one was AA. No because they are both men. That's my point about Leah she didn't need to say lower educated and income all she had to say was Hillary supporters. Now do you understand where I'm coming from. If not that is SAD!!!Jean

May 16, 2008 1:31 AM; May 16, 2008 1:41 AM
Hippolytus said...: Folks, this thread is getting way too banal and pathetic. No, Yamaka, the Goebbels reference isn't any funnier the second time around. And the reference to a baby shower is just as lame. The point is that Hillary will need to actively support Obama, and he will need to accept her support, purely out of their respective self-interests. It looks like that process is already starting.; May 16, 2008 1:47 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Mike in maryland why is saying most blacks vote for obama now why is that being rasict is it not the truth does he not have a large % of blacks voting for him.I don't understand why saying that is being racist but saying lower educated and income people is not being rasict. Jean; May 16, 2008 1:50 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Hillary can support him all she wants he won't get my vote and I don't think he [obama] will get enough of Hillarys votes for him to get the win. sorry !Jean; May 16, 2008 1:54 AM
tmess2 said...: I have trouble seeing Richardson as the VP. The only person likely to be on either ticket more prone to opening mouth and inserting foot is John McCain.

My short list is Bayh and Rendell if looking for Clinton folks; Webb, Nunn, and Hagel if looking for defense folks, and if looking for executive experience, Schweizer or Ritter.

As good as Sebellius or McCaskill would be as VP candidates on a ticket with someone else, I can't see Obama taking that risk.; May 16, 2008 2:05 AM
tmess2 said...: If someone wants to use analogies for this discussion of VP potentials, I prefer to think of it as picking names for the baby during the eighth month. Yes, there could still be a miscarriage. Yes, some of us did not want this pregnancy, but it's looking like that baby is going to be born regardless of who wants to deny it.; May 16, 2008 2:07 AM
Hippolytus said...: Leah,
I'm puzzled by your dismissal of Ed Rendell. It seemed from the video that Rendell was praising the good works that the Nation of Islam does in its community, which to me doesn't seem much different than the good works that Obama's church (and Rev. Wright) does/did in his community. I think Black separatism is a deplorable idea, but I don't know that I can fault Ed Rendell for speaking before part of his constituency. I have a hard time believing that he has a racist bone in his body, any more than I believe that either Bill or Hillary Clinton is a racist(notwithstanding their self-serving and deplorable comments and tactics throughout the campaign). I fear that you may be too harsh in your condemnation of Rendell. I don't think he'd be where he is, if he really were a racist.; May 16, 2008 2:08 AM
Aunt Jean said...: oregon bem one more thing you are a man women can say something that a man might overlook it and not think nothing it but as a woman I know how a woman's mind works like Leah she meant it has a slur. That's what peoed me. Everyone one or most think that she's this nice church woman yea right. A nice church woman doesn't post sly rude remarks. Jean; May 16, 2008 2:12 AM
Mike in Maryland said...: Aunt Jean said...
Mike in maryland why is saying most blacks vote for obama now why is that being rasict is it not the truth does he not have a large % of blacks voting for him.I don't understand why saying that is being racist but saying lower educated and income people is not being rasict.

Aunt Jean,

Trying to reason with you is hopeless.

One of your comments is a fact. One is the twisting of words to make someone else appear racist when what they said was NOT racist.

What Leah stated was twisted by Republicans-in-guise to be something that she didn't say. And you were in the forefront of that twisting of meaning.

Ergo, you must be racist.

BTW - since you live in Texas, and since there is very little probability that Texas will vote for the Democratic Party nominee this November (no matter who he or she will be), go ahead and vote for McSame. Trying to convince you that voting for him is against your self-interests is an absolute waste of time, money and effort.

IF McSame is elected, I hope you enjoy the next four years. I know that most Americans will sooner or later regret it.

Of course, when you finally DO realize the mistake, and if you hold to form, you'll find someone else to blame it on.

Mike; May 16, 2008 2:13 AM
Hippolytus said...: tmess2,
Why Bayh? What am I missing?; May 16, 2008 2:13 AM
Aunt Jean said...: LEAH GO TO CHURCH AND PRAY BECAUSE YOU NEED IT.DO YOU THINK I CARE THAT YOU IGNORE ME HECK NO BUT IF YOU SAY SOMETHING THAT IS RASICT I WILL STILL CALL YOU A RASICT. Jean; May 16, 2008 2:20 AM
Mike in Maryland said...: Hippolytus said...
Leah,
I'm puzzled by your dismissal of Ed Rendell. It seemed from the video that Rendell was praising the good works that the Nation of Islam does in its community, which to me doesn't seem much different than the good works that Obama's church (and Rev. Wright) does/did in his community.

Hippolytus,

Consider the damage the Republitards would try to do in a slime campaign - ED RENDELL SPOKE BEFORE THE NATION OF ISLAM, AND HERE'S HIS PRAISE OF LOUIS FARRAKHAN!", but of course taking everything he said in that speech completely out of context.

We know they are going to try to wrap Reverend Wright around Senator Obama. I think the American voting populace is too intelligent to fall for that again. However, do we need to fight that battle times two?

Mike; May 16, 2008 2:23 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: DCW added a new link at the top left of this page for:

Edwards Delegate Status

.; May 16, 2008 2:24 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Hippolytus said...
Leah,
I'm puzzled by your dismissal of Ed Rendell. It seemed from the video that Rendell was praising the good works that the Nation of Islam does in its community,.......
_______________

Hypolytus,
During one of the debates Hillary bashed Obama regarding Farrakhan, because Farrakhan had said that he endorsed Obama. So Obama said he that he had already 'denounced' Farrakhan. Then Hillary went into a tizzy and she that Obama must 'reject' Farrakhan. So then Obama said that he denounced and rejected Farrakhan.
Now if Obama were to put Gov. Rendell on his ticket after Rendell has publicly praised Farrakhan, and there is video of it, then all hell would break loose by the GOP and the anti-Obama media.

.; May 16, 2008 2:30 AM
Hippolytus said...: Mike,
I make a point. However, there's a difference scratching Rendell for the reason you mention, and actually believing he's a racist.
I'll consider him scratched, for the reason you give.; May 16, 2008 2:32 AM
Hippolytus said...: Leah,
I accept your point, as I said to Mike. But I still don't believe Rendell is a racist; do you honestly believe that?; May 16, 2008 2:34 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Hippolytus -

I never said that I believed that Gov. Rendell was a racist.

I believe that his ties to Farrakhan would hurt the Obama ticket.

If Obama is bashed for Farrakhan 'only saying something' about Obama - then you know that the GOP and the media would make a huge deal about Rendell going to that dinner and speaking well of Farrakhan.

Understand now? :); May 16, 2008 2:39 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Hippolytus -

Gov. Rendell is a white man praising a black man --- how on earth do you see anything racist in that?

Maybe you read my first comment wrong or something.

I think that in the past few days/weeks there has been too much talk about racism, sexism, and bigotry on this thread --- lets get back to talkin' politics ;)

.; May 16, 2008 2:44 AM
Hippolytus said...: Leah,
Gotcha. I misconstrued your first posting on the subject. Sorry if I jumped to the wrong conclusion.
Good night, everybody.; May 16, 2008 2:48 AM
Mike in Maryland said...: Hippolytus,

No, I don't believe he is a racist. If he is, he has done a magnificent job of hiding it.

I just think that his remarks, taken out of context, will allow the Republitards to make a HUGE deal with his comments taken out of context.

If the American public knew him, it wouldn't be that much of a problem. But the fact remains that Rendell is less known right now than Senator Obama was at the time of the debate referenced by Leah, and look how much static the Republitards were still trying to cause in Mississippi's first district as late as last week.

Ed Rendell probably has all the qualifications to be the VP candidate. I say 'probably' because I haven't looked at his positions and issues in that much detail, just trusting the commentary I've heard from other sources I can usually trust.

The hurdle he caused, though, are the comments the Republitards would use OUT OF CONTEXT. It would waste too much time, money and effort to get past that hurdle. It could be done, but at the expense of what other issue or issues?

Mike; May 16, 2008 2:50 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Hippolytus -

I'm glad we go that straightened out ;)

It is easy to misunderstand each other when typing online versus talking face to face.

Sweet dreams to you.

.; May 16, 2008 2:52 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Clinton: It'd be 'terrible mistake' to pick McCain over Obama

"Anybody who has ever voted for me or voted for Barack has much more in common in terms of what we want to see happen in our country and in the world with the other than they do with John McCain," Clinton said on CNN's "The Situation Room."

"I'm going to work my heart out for whoever our nominee is. Obviously, I'm still hoping to be that nominee, but I'm going to do everything I can to make sure that anyone who supported me ... understands what a grave error it would be not to vote for Sen. Obama."

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/05/14/clinton/index.html

.; May 16, 2008 3:07 AM
Amot said...: RobH,
Leah, Tyler, and all the rest who moved on the next serious topic!

Here is what I think about the VP slot:

1. USA can't handle a joint ticket of African American and woman. 7% of WV Dems voted against that; many more stayed at home; imagine how many Independents and Republicans wouldn't cross the line for such a ticket. Unfortunately if has to be one at a time - either AA or woman! Both Hillary and Obama know that and that is why they fought so hard. One more thing - if he chose Hillary for VP, he lose the people that want change in addition; if he chose another woman - he lose die-hard Cliton brand supporters - 'Why didn't he chose her?'

Summary: No woman for VP!

2. No black, latino or anyone not pure white (do I need to explain why). That eliminates Richardson, but he can be eliminated by several other reasons too.

Summary: White for VP!

3. No die-hard Clinton supporters! If he chose one the question will be again - 'Why him/her instead of Hillary?'. No die-hard Obama supporters! He needs to bridge to Clinton electorate and also not give ground for speculations that his VP sold his support for the slot (the Judas thing - applies to Richardson and Edwards). However he can pick a neutral or weak Clinton supporter! No strong liberals! (Who gets excluded based on that?) Obama is not too liberal but he is considered such and he better pick moderate in both moral values and economy issues. He also will have better appeal to Independents and cross-over Republicans.

Summary: Moderate, neutral or weak Clinton(Obama) supporter!

4. Christian, Catholic is perfect, but regular church goer is a must. Obama has religious issues, too much of them. Rendell is out immediately because of his issues with Farrakhan. No more like that, please!

Summary: Christian, regular chirch goer!

5. Executive experience! That means someone with long resume, Governor is perfect, Senator is not fine (more the point we need them in Senate). Bloomberg is the other name that comes in mind. Obama doesn't need VP focused on military or international affairs, polls show he is the best candidate if it comes to those things. So he was right when he said early March that he feels most confident about the National security. Plus McCain's weakest point is economy and VP strong on that can smash McCain's ticket. Plus Obama needs to improve his position among voters about he can handle the economy!

Summary: (ex)Governor with good resume on ecomony! Or Bloomberg!

6. No elitist! Two of a kind will be too much. I watch Obama sitting next to Edwards the other night. He definetely looked elitist the way he sat on that chair. I think he needs to attend some lessons about body behaviour. Edwards is out immediately and unfortunately...
No new face! One is enough, message for change is strong enough!
No young guys! He needs someone over 50, around 60 would be perfect! Not older than 65 though! Seniors don't know him, they don't trust him, he needs someone they know and trust...

Summary: Older, well-known non-elitist!

Ok, we covered age, race, sex, faith, lifestyle and experience!
Let's make the final line:

White male (ex)Governor, 55-65 yo, good Christian, good resume on economy, moderate non-elitist! Not die-hard supporter of either Obama or Clinton! Add Gore and Bloomberg!

Who gets into the short list now?; May 16, 2008 3:12 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: I would pick Bob Casey BUT BUT BUT ...

Cons:
He is a Senator and not a Governor
He needs to be 10 years older
He needs a bit more in his resume

Pros:
He has a great speaking voice
He exudes class
He served two terms as Pennsylvania State Auditor General
He is Catholic and went to a Catholic University
He gets along with Obama well

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Casey%2C_Jr.

Obama / Sebelius :); May 16, 2008 3:30 AM
Mike in Maryland said...: I have not started looking for my choice of a VP candidate, and for all intents and purposes, I don't have a say - the VP choice has been the decision of the nominee, and only the nominee, in all parties for about 100 years now.

However, I've heard a lot of 'talking heads' (both sides of the 'talking head' political divide) mention Senator Chuck Hagel as a possibility. Some of the main factors why I think they are discussing him is because he was against the Iraq war from the beginning, he's a Viet Nam War veteran, he's considered a fiscal moderate, and he's an 'out of the box'-type choice. An added bonus would be he's a moderate Republican, and might ease much of the anguish moderate Republicans and Independents might have in voting for the Democratic Party nominee (either one, although the probability of Senator Clinton being that nominee is slim and getting slimmer each day).

I'm not saying he is a good choice. I'm not saying he is a bad choice. I'm just throwing his name out there for consideration and discussion, since we're discussing potential VP nominees.

Mike; May 16, 2008 3:33 AM
Amot said...: Leah,
I watched Casey! He is brilliant, but he is too young, too Obama and not moderate enough...

I must admit in the short list besides Bloomberg and Gore, Bayh is the best candidate!; May 16, 2008 3:35 AM
Amot said...: I agree on Nagel!
Obama can pick Independent for VP, but Republican? No, thanks!!! He better pick Yamaka :P; May 16, 2008 3:44 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Here's a link for Bayh:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evan_Bayh

Also we have to think about how the names sound together ;)

Obama / Bayh
Obama / Gore
Obama / Bloomberg
Obama / Edwards
Obama / Sebelius
Obama / ?

Here's a link to the Huffington Post top 12 list of front-runners with the pro's and con's listed too:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/05/09/obama-vice-president-pick_n_100869.html

.; May 16, 2008 3:48 AM
Mike in Maryland said...: Here's a TinyURL for Leah's link:
http://tinyurl.com/3w5v5s

Mike; May 16, 2008 4:08 AM
tmess2 said...: On amots criteria, I think we would have to add former Governor Vislich (sic) of Iowa into the list of possibilities. I think he supported Clinton in the caucuses.

Problem is we don't have that many solid former Governors to pull out of the hat and too many of our current governors just got in. That is what makes Bayh a frequently mentioned pick since he was Governor of Indiana before becoming a Senator.; May 16, 2008 4:17 AM
ed iglehart said...: Has everyone forgotten Webb? Right age, right sex, Cabinet experience, hasn't endorsed, Anti-war
, military cred, Southerner, 'converted' Republican, etc., etc. What are the negatives? Don't want to lose another Senator, and that's just about it.

Salaam, etc. ed; May 16, 2008 4:36 AM
Mike in Maryland said...: The problems I have with Bayh:

He has one of the least progressive voting records of all Democratic Senators since he first set foot in the Senate chamber.

And he still basically backs the Iraq War to this day.

Part of his record is because he is representing Indiana, and he needs to vote certain ways to keep his seat. I also think he would have been a 'Rockefeller Republican' nowadays if that breed of Republican were still in existence, but a bit to the right of them.

Talking to relatives from Indiana, most consider him Republican light, or think of him more of an opportunist than loyal to any party philosophy.

He's not a good fit, IMO.

Besides, two other reasons:

1. Bayh's from Indiana. Even with Bayh on the ticket, there is very little probability that he could carry the state, and which other states would Senator Obama lose with Bayh on the ticket (which other candidate could help carry other geographic areas that Bayh wouldn't help carry?). He also wouldn't help that much in carrying Michigan, Ohio, and almost none in Kentucky (one or two we might need, one that would be really nice to carry, but almost no probability).

Bayh's a fairly reliable Dem vote in the Senate, especially if it's a "safe" vote. If he were the VP choice, the Senator chosen to replace him would almost certainly be a VERY right-wing Republican (but most Hoosiers would consider the replacement to be 'middle of the road'). Gov. Daniels has some problems with his reelection bid, but should be able to get a 4-7 point win, even with his problems, and Daniels is no middle of the road Republitard. He's the one who would most likely name a replacement, and as the former head of OMB, he'd have the full backing of the Republican slime machine in filling the post. (I know - primary and special election, but getting Daniels' nod would be 75% of the battle, and no Dem would get that.)

Mike

Mike; May 16, 2008 4:43 AM
Amot said...: Mike,
the fact Bayh is not that progressive is positive using my criteria. I agree that being from IN and current senator are negatives, but those are indirect to the nomination.

Leah,
Edwards and Sebelius are out, according the criteria.

Webb... hmm, he is converted, too much military, not enough economy, he is senator who will probably lose his seat to GOP too. Age, color, sex and religion are fine, but still not perfect. VA is a plus... I still think Bayh is stronger candidate, but Webb is agood one too...; May 16, 2008 4:59 AM
ed iglehart said...: Yamaka said,
"What Dubya thought is what is relevant here."

What would be of interest would be IF dubya thought.; May 16, 2008 5:05 AM
Amot said...: I checked Governors again and guess what - we have a winner:

Michael Francis (Mike) Easley

white,
male,
Roman Catholic,
58 yo,
2 terms governor,
executive experience,
non-elitist,
moderate,
late Clinton supporter,
old Edwards supporter,
secures NC

He was rumored 2006 for VP...; May 16, 2008 5:16 AM

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