Democratic Convention Watch: Open Thread

Tuesday, April 01, 2008

Open Thread

WE'VE MOVED! Democratic Convention Watch is now at http://www.DemocraticConventionWatch.com

What is McCain's latest "senior moment", what does Obama need to do to win in November or whatever else is on your mind.

And please be excellent to one another. We do not accept name calling or any attacks on our commenters. Any objectionable comments will be deleted. Try to be civil.

Thanks!

Previous Open Thread is here

9481 comments:

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Joshua said...: I have read through the circumstance sorounding Sarah Palin’s supposed childbirth of April 18, 2008. http://www.adn.com/626/story/382864.html I have practiced obstetrics for 29 years. Sarah Palin is not the mother. At no time is the story credible:
She “delivered” on April 18 but had a due date a month later. So, say her due date was May 18, 2008, i.e., last menstrual period was August 12, 2007. She experienced rupture of membranes (water leaking is another way of saying water bag broke) on Thursday April 18 in Texas. She supposedly spoke by phone with her family physician Cathy Baldwin-Johnson who is certainly not an obstetrician. A woman at her age who is pregnant is high-risk pregnancy and beyond the scope of practice of a family physician, particularly when the patient is a high-profile governor of a state. I would be amazed if a mere family physician would tackle this.

Not only is she at high risk for baby birth defect, she is at high risk for gestational diabetes, hypertension and pre-eclampsia. No doctor would permit a multiparous woman to board a commercial airline at 36 weeks gestation after she complains of rupture of membranes without first going to the nearest emergency room to rule out rupture of membranes. And if she has ROM and must fly to another hospital, she would go by medical helicopter to that hospital. Never mind commercial flight from Texas to Alaska. The risk includes precipitous delivery and exsanguination from postpartum hemorrhage. She could easily become eclamptic and die from lack of medical attention. So, I go on record and state that any doctor who would permit such a patient to board a commercial airline has committed malpractice.

A multiparous woman like Sarah Palin is at high risk for placenta accrete. This is a life-threatening condition. There is no way a family physician can cope with this. No way.

She boarded flights twice from Alaska to Texas and back at 36 weeks gestation and no airline agent at the gate noticed anything unusual. They report that she did not appear pregnant.

An elderly multigravida (any woman pregnant over age 35 is considered elderly) 36 weeks pregnant and not visibly pregnant to the lay public, has minimally IUGR (Intrauterine growth restriction). This is a life-threatening condition for the baby and no family physician would ignore this. I think they would know enough to at least get consultation from an obstetrician.

The baby, Trig Paxson Van Palin, weighed 6 pounds 2 ounces at birth. Labor was induced. She planned on breastfeeding. She wanted the baby born in Alaska!

Lies. She had to be back to Alaska where her pregnant unwed teenage child was about to deliver. A birth is a public record matter. I expect the media to ferret out this child’s birth certificate.

Minimally, Sarah Palin was a terrible patient. If you are 36 weeks pregnant and your water breaks, you get your rear end into the nearest hospital. You don’t board a trans-country air flight. Suppose she had had a prolapse of the umbilical cord? Dead baby. That is the result. Suppose she had infection. After 24 hours of water breaking, many of those women get an infection that could minimally kill the baby (GBS), or leave the baby with significant morbidity.

Sarah Palin is a liar or an unfit parent. McCain is an idiot. Or he thinks that we, the voters, are idiots.; September 01, 2008 5:22 AM
Joshua said...: Oops, Water bag broke Thursday, the 17th, not 18th; September 01, 2008 5:27 AM
Mike in Maryland said...: From The Washington Post:

Biden, Obama a Comfortable Fit on the Campaign Trail

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/08/31/AR2008083101954.html?hpid%3Dmoreheadlines&sub=AR

Mike; September 01, 2008 6:41 AM
Emit R Detsaw said...: Thanks for the medical take on the story Joshua.....

The internet is great for looking things up quickly, but also allow the quick spread of false items as well. I know at least one of the pictures of the daughter with her "bump" was a picture that the Anchorage newspaper had on their website from 2006. So knew there was a bunch of false stuff out there, but your description is what I was I was thinking.

If she was pregnant, she should have gotten herself to a hospital to be cleared to fly back to Alaska. I felt at the least it showed a total lack of responsibility and a extremely poor sense of judgment.; September 01, 2008 9:04 AM
Karen Anne said...: Joshua or DocJess,

I am wondering what the possibility is of a birth certificate being filed with wrong information?

There is presumably a reason the baby was born out in the sticks (sorry, Wasillia), like people she knew at the hospital or the doctor being on board with fiddling things.; September 01, 2008 10:15 AM
Aunt Jean said...: To everyone

I do know that doctors and hospitals will cover things up. I worked at a small hospital [38 beds] and there was something that was major covered up. So yes it can happen. The thing at this hospital involved a RN. Now how much pull do you think the gov. has? Yes I could have gone to the police but had no proof.Just what I seen and heard. AJ; September 01, 2008 10:31 AM
apissedant said...: http://www.freeople.com/blog/palin-pregnancy-rumors-drive-internet-traffic-over-holiday/1319; September 01, 2008 10:32 AM
Vicki in Seattle said...: since they are erasing stuff off the web, we need to be saving it.

I'd do it, but I'm busy with Homeland Security.

btw, I'm probably best for DHS, since I have an FBI file. Or so I'm told.; September 01, 2008 10:38 AM
apissedant said...: Dave,
I took a look around at the blog, and decided you would look best in a leather mini skirt. ;); September 01, 2008 10:39 AM
apissedant said...: Also, you're the first to act what I would consider appropriately! HAHA

The way I see it, I was only offering jobs to people I found unqualified for the job I offered them. I was effectively insulting everyone. ;)

In my defense, I gave myself the Chief Justice spot.; September 01, 2008 10:41 AM
apissedant said...: Dave,
If Bill becomes a male prostitute and drug dealer you'll be fine. ;); September 01, 2008 10:42 AM
Vicki in Seattle said...: msnbc is reporting that Palin's 17 year old daughter is five months pregnant

the baby is how old now?? 3 months?; September 01, 2008 12:32 PM
Joshua said...: Karen Anne,
A birth certificate is a public document and filled under penalty of perjury. Every birth certificate must have the attending physician attest to it veracity.; September 01, 2008 12:37 PM
suzihussein22 said...: peevish-Great luck. I don't have a passport. I haven't even gotten to intl. waters when I was at VA beach. And you think you looked like a h*-

http://www.flickr.com/photos/79696214@N00/2816674538

Yep. Now you know that's the way I go a huntin'. It doesn't even have to be from my own plane or one of my 3 homes. The more powerful the better. It just has to leave me the skin and a few ounces of meat for a burger. Gotta stay on my diet!

bob in V-Have you checked out Meghan McCain's blog site? Bristol even looks like she just had a baby and Todd never held his own baby. According to her sister, Willow, Bristol's had or having a quickie wedding.

Either way you go, lying and bad judgement is involved.

aunt jean-I getcha on the hospital tinkerings. I can totally see it.

Mrs. Bush is telling everybody to lay off the sexism. When is it crossing the line? I respect her reaction to Mrs. O. I see strategy here though. W Bush says he finally gets to vote for a Rep. woman. Whose fault is that? Wasn't there any when he ran 8 years ago? How about 20 yrs. ago? What was Rice doing then?; September 01, 2008 12:42 PM
suzihussein22 said...: Party on, lobbyists, you mavericks-

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/Conventions/story?id=5699827&page=1; September 01, 2008 12:50 PM
UUbuntu said...: Well, it's looking more and more that Sarah Palin is NOT a grandmother.

Yet. She will be a grandmother in about 4 months though.

So far anyway, this seems to confirm my earlier posts, and the "Sue Williams" source on the other blog.; September 01, 2008 1:02 PM
Mike-in-GA said...: I'm a Republican who has enjoyed monitoring this site for many months. I posted a couple of times in the past and reported that I am supporting Barack Obama after voting Republican for over 30+ years. I finally decided to post again after reading the garbage that "StopOBAMAnow" continues to post about Senator Obama being a muslim, Senator Obama's birth certificate and all the other trash that the Republican Troll has been spouting off about. I am also glad to see that things are starting to come out about Govenor Sarah Palin. I personally believe that Senator McCain reacted in his normal mode (shooting from the hip) by selecting her without vetting her with due diligence. Senator McCain may have been a "maverick" when he ran in 2000 but the reason I don't support him now is that his positions now are no where close to what they were in 2000. He is uninspiring and has "flip-flopped" so many times - I don't recognize him anymore. I may not agree 100% with Senator Obama policies, but I do think he is someone who cares about us more than Senator McCain. His motto should be "McCain Politics First vs. Country First" because everything that Senator McCain has done since becoming the "presumptive nominee" has been politically motivated in an effort to get elected. That includes selecting an unqualified running mate for his Vice Presidental pick. I want to congratulate Senator McCain for the way he has succeeded in helping to convert my wife and I into Obama supporters. Keep up the good work - many more of my Republican friends feel the same as we do.; September 01, 2008 1:09 PM
Bob in Vancouver said...: Suzihussein22

Can You Believe the Spin? What a load of shit.

ST. PAUL, Minnesota (CNN) -- Bristol Palin, the 17-year-old daughter of Sarah Palin, is pregnant and will keep the baby and marry the father, a senior aide to Sen. John McCain confirmed to CNN Tuesday.

Republican presidential candidate McCain was aware of Bristol Palin's pregnancy before he chose her mother for his running mate, the aide said.

"Senator McCain knew this and felt in no way did it disqualify her from being vice president," said the aide. "Families have difficulties sometimes, and lucky for her she has a supportive family."

The 17-year-old, a senior in high school, is about five months along, in her second trimester, according to the aide.

The aide said it was decided the campaign would reveal this information now because of rampant Internet rumors that Sarah Palin's 4-month-old baby, who has Down syndrome, was actually Bristol's.

"In the course of correcting that, we needed to get the truth out," said the McCain aide.

Sarah and Todd Palin issued a statement saying they are "proud of Bristol's decision to have her baby and even prouder to become grandparents."

They also asked the media to respect their daughter's privacy.

The McCain aide insisted a key point to keep in mind is that Bristol decided to keep the baby, a decision "supported by her parents."

Of Course He wasn't told. She figured that it woud never come out. If they did, why did they wait til now to issue a release.; September 01, 2008 1:12 PM
Karen Anne said...: Just to stir the pot a little, Trig could still be the daughter's if the Palins are lying about her being five months along this time. It's ben 4 1/2 months since he was born.

Suzi, is it conceivably possible that that photo at
http://www.flickr.com/photos/79696214@N00/2816674538
is real? It looks so, so, ... it is hard to believe isn't Photoshopped, but I don't see any signs of that.; September 01, 2008 1:18 PM
Karen Anne said...: Sorry for all my typos, my keyboard and mouse are going west.; September 01, 2008 1:20 PM
apissedant said...: Mike in GA,
Nice to hear from you and I understand your perspective. I voted for John McCain in 2000 myself. At the time, I considered myself an independent, but George W. most definitely converted me into a full fledged unapologetic Democrat.; September 01, 2008 1:24 PM
Richard said...: Karen Anne: Sadly, that picture is photoshopped. It wasn't a bad job, but it's pretty clear under 1000% magnification.; September 01, 2008 1:28 PM
Joshua said...: Saray Palin is lying now or she was lying then. I want to see Trig’s birth certificate. I don’t believe that Bristol Palin is 5 months pregnant. They say she is due in December. No date given. So, take middle of December. This means that she got pregnant on March 24, 2008. Either this is a lie or she did not give birth to Trig on April 18, 2008.

If Sarah is actually Trig’s mother, she lacks judgment. A pregnant mother at 36 weeks does not sit on a plane for 8 hours, then ride in a car for 45 minutes after her water bag breaks, passing countless hospitals without stopping in between. Has she ever heard of pulmonary embolus (airline coach disease)?

And this is the family values party?; September 01, 2008 1:31 PM
Bob in Vancouver said...: Well everyone, what do you expect from a 17 year old girl when you have a mother who runs around in leather mini skirt and stilleto heals.

Sarah Palin, with morals like she has, is a real problem to McCain, firing two police chief's when they don't do her personal bidding; one when she was mayor and one when she was govenor. All the crap will start to come out now.

with morals like her motherwhen her mother we; September 01, 2008 1:33 PM
Joshua said...: Who wants to bet me? McCain’s campaign will release an announcement next month that Bristol Palin has tragically suffered a “miscarriage.” So, there will never be anyone asking her for the baby in December.; September 01, 2008 1:35 PM
Bob in Vancouver said...: Must be a slow news day.; September 01, 2008 1:37 PM
Emit R Detsaw said...: Ok, rumors are rumors. And things that are proven true are facts.

That being said.....

One of the things that came out of the "rumors" about Trig being Bristol's kid was that she was out of school for around 5 months for mono. Now we learn that she has been pregnant for 5 months. That would mean that she got pregnant while she was suffering from mono that was bad enough to keep her out of school?

Something smells fishy and I don't think it was the Salmon that Sarah was holding.

I don't think this is the last we will hear of this story.

On the side of the issue of whether she is qualified or ready for the VP office. I once had an individual interviewing for an opening that I had. We went through the interview and when I asked her if she had any additional questions she said, "Well, just one. What would I be doing in this position?" She had wasted 30 minutes of my time and had applied for a position she didn't know anything about. Needless to say, I didn't hire her. And I'm not hiring Palin. If I had been for McCain, this selection would have been a vote changer.; September 01, 2008 1:41 PM
Mike-in-GA said...: I would suggest that maybe the "All American Family from Alaska" is not as pure and proud of thier family values as they would want us to believe. I expect much more to be uncovered in the near future. The pundits have been saying that Govenor Palin is from the same mold as Senator McCain - I can't wait to see how she explains some of her previous comments (like not knowing what the VP does on a daily basis) and her previous comments about Hillary Clinton being a "whiner". Senators Obama and Biden will be called "sexists" if they attack her even if they focus on the way she too has "flip-flopped" on many issues to include "the bridge to nowhere", family values, oil drilling, etc. I would hope that Hillary and many of the female supporters of Senator Obama would take the lead NOW to get the truth out about Govenor Palin's true positions on these issues. I still have my doubts about Hillary's willingness to do this (since she has not spoken out strongly about Gov Palin's attempt to go after her supporters) - but she and her husband surprised me during the convention with thier support - I only hope she surprises me again. Now is the time that Gov Palin needs to be rebuked. The democratic women will not face the same criticism as the men if they go after her now while the American public is formulating thier opinion about her.; September 01, 2008 1:46 PM
apissedant said...: karen,
I would have to say, Trig being hers would be almost impossible. If you look at the picture from Friday, she looks VERY pregnant. The photos earlier of her, "baby bump" were supposed to be when she was believed to be 5 months pregnant. This leaves me with this conclusion:

She preaches abstinence and her daughter is a ho. I don't want her garbage polluting my child's school.

The flight from Texas was unnecessary and dangerous. I don't want someone that is so focused on their state that they won't even allow their child to be born in another state. This closed mindedness is no good for America.

Her and her husband are obviously more focused on their own lives than taking care of their children. Teenage pregnancy shows Todd hasn't been doing a good job as the primary caregiver, and he hasn't even had the job for 2 years yet.

Also, would it be VP Todd Palin?
http://www.andrewhalcro.com/shadow_governor; September 01, 2008 1:51 PM
Bob in Vancouver said...: More Breaking News:

Sarah Palin said she was keeping the happy surprise secret because she wanted her oldest daughter and proud father to have a White House Wedding, sometime in late February.; September 01, 2008 1:51 PM
Emit R Detsaw said...: apissedant - the "baby bump" photo was from 2006. I found it in the Anchorage news paper archives. It was just added to the rumors.; September 01, 2008 1:55 PM
apissedant said...: This one is just amusing:

http://www.ibdeditorials.com/IBDArticles.aspx?id=304903742659205; September 01, 2008 1:56 PM
Bob in Vancouver said...: Lies, Lies, Lies:

Sarah Palin has lied about her involvement with the bridge to nowhere. She has lied to the schoold district about her daughter having mono. She has lied to everyone that she had no involvement in teh firing of the State's administrator.

She has only been on the national scene for 73 hours.

McCain must be pulling his hair out and his spin staff working overtime.; September 01, 2008 1:58 PM
Mike-in-GA said...: Sorry - I wouldn't want anyone thinking I was treating Governor Palin poorly by spelling her title wrong - this darn laptop still hasn't learned how to spell :) By the way Matt or Oreo - are there any democratic blogs covering the Republican National Convention that you are aware of? It might be a good idea for us to do a little research and post to some of them with some of the Governor's previous quotes about Hillary and her positions. The more "Facts" that hit the blogs the better. Rumors don't win converts - but "Facts" do.; September 01, 2008 2:01 PM
Independent Voter said...: AJ, thanks for asking about Bill's fingers. Well, can't see them, but he is feeling a little better (of course with all the pain meds), that was the reason I wasn't on until late last night (after he went to bed).

------

p'd ant - Kilt yes, leather skirt - um not so much. And the possibility of Bill becoming a prostitute and drug dealer, well, I don't think he would go for it, but I'll work on him about that. ;)

------

I know that we are not supposed to "feed the trolls", but our village idiot has stated a completely FALSE statement that I feel needs to be corrected: "Most Americans want abortion legal if pregnancy threatens the life of the mother. This is exactly the position of Gov Palin."

Above is the false statement. She does NOT support abortion in ANY case, not even if the life of the mother is threatened.; September 01, 2008 2:03 PM
Independent Voter said...: p'd ant - as much as I can't stand Palin's position, was it necessary to call her daughter a ho?; September 01, 2008 2:05 PM
jean said...: ap,
Calling her a ho, you owe an apology and a real big one.
Dang, the kid is going to have enough to deal with.
jean; September 01, 2008 2:12 PM
apissedant said...: Dave,
I have issues with teenage boys and girls being irresponsible and having a good old time. I have more trouble when they don't use protection and try to frame themselves as the moral majority.

I'm not a good Christian, and I (obviously) don't believe in the idea of "judge not lest ye be judged." I do, however, have respect for my parents, and morals. I kept it in my pants and waited until I was living on my own and paying my own bills.

I'm not preaching abstinence programs or anything else. The schools, government, and our parents should keep us properly informed just in case we make a mistake. The fact that I believe in keeping children informed does not make their actions correct, any less of a mistake, or mean that I cannot or should not judge them when these actions are undertaken.

I just my friends, my family, and myself with the same set of standards. Sarah Palin does not. All those other teenage hoes are irresponsible and evil, but her daughter is wonderful and heavenly. That is hypocrisy and it is wrong.

I do not go around calling every person that engaged in unprotected sexual activity as a ho (female) or a douche bag (male), but I will not hold back against those that are hypocrites to boot. If there were a derogatory word for a male ho, I would use that also, but unfortunately they are all taken as compliments when men are considered.; September 01, 2008 2:20 PM
Vicki in Seattle said...: I'm waiting on the MSM to uncover the truth of the matter. willing to bet that someone has done a FOIA on the birth certificate by now.

Five months is perfect, if it's a lie, since the truth won't be obvious till after the election.

also, apparently Todd Palin got a DWI, but it was in 1984.; September 01, 2008 2:21 PM
Mike-in-GA said...: Wouldn't it be terrible if Senator McCain acutally had to speak at the RNC and not be able "fly under the radar" by hiding behind Hurricane Gustav. Well maybe it wouldn't be so terrible - then people could see for themselves how poor of a speaker he is when he has to speak without relying on his memorized stump speech. I find it disgusting that Senator McCain has been planning for over a week to delay or shorten the Republican National Convention. Once again I feel he is pandering to the American public. What did he accomplish by going to Mississippi to get a briefing on Hurricane Gustav? All he did was put a strain on resources like he did when he went to Iowa during the floods. He should stay out of the way like Senator Obama until the states know what help is needed. If he really wants to be of assistance - maybe he should auction off a few of the homes he owns and donate the money to the Red Cross. Of course he would have to know where the houses are before he would be able to do that. I am not trying to trivialize the needs of the citizens of the gulf coast - I just get so irritated with McCain's nonsense.; September 01, 2008 2:22 PM
apissedant said...: jean,
In my opinion, she is a ho, and I don't apologize for speaking what I believe is true. If she didn't want to be called one, she should speak to her moral majority mother who wants to impose her insanity on me while exempted her own family. Or she could have used a condom, her choice.; September 01, 2008 2:22 PM
apissedant said...: And why are they getting married? THEY ARE 17!! You don't get married because you knocked a woman up! This is more moral majority retardation! THEY ARE CHILDREN NOT ONLY HAVING CHILDREN, BUT GETTING MARRIED, BECAUSE THAT SOMEHOW MAKES THEIR IMMORAL ACTIONS OK.

The fact that a wedding is announced is evidence that the moral majority thinks Bristol is a ho. This marriage is meant to make her no longer a ho. It won't work. She'll be divorced in 4 years.; September 01, 2008 2:27 PM
Vicki in Seattle said...: I had a bizarre thought: supposing McCain (really, he was not born under a rock yesterday), really wants someone else, and is counting on the convention to reject Palin, so he can nominate who he really wants? but still look like he can appreciate the far right wind?

is that too convoluted?; September 01, 2008 2:33 PM
jean said...: ap,
You are so judgemental it is amazing.
Perhaps they did and it ripped.
Just remember, Karma is not always good with what you say and what you do. That also includes you.
Being giving, supportive, non- judgemental are good qualities that obviously your wife has and you lack.
jean; September 01, 2008 2:36 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: DCW even put it on the front page of this website - so now it is an issue that we can talk about without feeling bad about it :)

Monday, September 01, 2008
Sarah Palin's Daughter is Pregnant

From Politico:

Besieged by blog rumors about her 17-year-old daughter, Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin — named Friday as running mate of John McCain — released a statement Monday saying her daughter is pregnant and plans to marry the father.

The governor and her husband, Todd, said their daughter Bristol plans to keep the baby.; September 01, 2008 2:41 PM
Joshua said...: Ok, let me get this straight. Bristol Palin is due to give birth in December, and to make it right, the boy who knocked her up will marry her. And Sarah Palin is planning on a Whitehouse wedding for February? What am I missing here? Even as VP, she thinks she gets to give her daughter a Whitehouse wedding. In February when the baby would already be two months old?

She right. She has no idea what the VP does or where she would reside as VP. This is too funny to be real.; September 01, 2008 2:41 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: WOW - and DCW even has a poll on the front page regarding Sarah Palin's watering breaking!

Be sure to take the poll!; September 01, 2008 2:44 PM
apissedant said...: jean,
No, my wife judges too. We all judge. The difference is I admit when I make judgments, and hold myself to the same standard that I hold others to.

You missed the point:
Why did they feel the need to announce the wedding at the same time they announced the pregnancy? What does that indicate about their own judgments of her actions? I'm using the standard that THEY use to judge others, to judge THEM. If they have a problem with this type of judgment, maybe they should not be judging others using this same criteria.; September 01, 2008 2:45 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Palin's husband has DWI arrest

ST. PAUL, Minnesota (CNN) — A senior adviser to the McCain campaign confirmed Monday that Todd Palin, husband to Republican vice presidential candidate Sarah Palin, was arrested for driving while intoxicated in 1984.

"Yes, 24 years ago he had a DWI," senior McCain adviser Steve Schmidt told reporters in St. Paul.

Schmidt was asked if he was worried about the news, and replied, “I was not.”

The story was first reported by David Brody, a CNN contributor and Christian Broadcasting Network News Senior National Correspondent.; September 01, 2008 2:47 PM
Karen Anne said...: I take exception to calling her a ho, also. She's just a kid, for pete's sake, who slept with her boyfriend. This is so not a ho.

I sure hope they want to get married and are not being forced into it. Where is the hero boyfriend anyway?

Vickie, maybe McSame will dump Gidget and get Leiberman, apparently whom he really wanted.

I am coming to think this whole mess will work out well for the Democrats. Terrible McSame judgment, disastrous potential VP.; September 01, 2008 2:49 PM
apissedant said...: Someone posted a link to the 1972 race, when Democrat's changed the VP candidate. The Democrats lost in a landslide, only taking one state and D.C.

There is no point in McCain changing candidates. The damage is done. His best bet is probably to hope for people like me to speak too much. All of us will continue talking about this and avoiding her lack of qualifications and their terrible stance on the issues. People like me will continue saying what we believe, and will piss people off because our views on teenage sex will be distorted to be sexist, despite the fact that I never stated that it was ok for a 16 or 17 year old man to be having sex either, in fact quite the opposite.

That's a best case scenario in my mind.; September 01, 2008 2:52 PM
jean said...: ap,
You don't have to like anything.
To call her a ho, well, I guess I now know it is not beneath you.
I had no idea you would call a young girl in trouble that name.
I do not agree with what she is doing but your reaction with the words you used absolutly show YOUR immaturity.
The word is STUPID, the word IDIOT is for someone who knows better.
I have no idea which fits you now.
jean; September 01, 2008 2:53 PM
Beryl said...: I don't think a 24 year old DWI of the Veep's husband is important.

Her judgment is.

(I'm back.); September 01, 2008 2:54 PM
Mike-in-GA said...: Joshua - Maybe she plans on moving in with the McCain's (if they get to the White House) so she can be at the "feet of the master" and learn what a VP does on a daily basis. Don't be so tough on her - if she doesn't know what the Vice President does on a daily basis - how would you expect her to know that the Vice President's residence is in the Naval Observatory in Washington?; September 01, 2008 2:55 PM
apissedant said...: Exactly, she's just a kid. Kids shouldn't be having sex. The emotional and financial responsibility is too high for a kid to properly grasp.

Again, I will point out that I am for full sexual education, but being for sexual education does not mean being for children having sex. I believe in not crashing my car, but I still have airbags and a seat belt.; September 01, 2008 2:55 PM
Joshua said...: Jean
As the father of a 17 year old boy who for the first time had his girl-friend in his room yesterday with the door closed, to my irritation, I second that statement. I am crossing my fingers and hoping that nothing happened. But you gotta let the kids go sometimes and hope that they will make the right choices.; September 01, 2008 2:57 PM
apissedant said...: jean,
You can encourage your children to, "go out and have fun," all you want, but I still believe in morals. I had proper sex education in both middle school and high school in case I broke the rules, but my father was very clear on what the rules were. I don't begrudge him for that one bit. I was not emotionally ready for a relationship at that level, and I was not financially able to deal with the aftermath.

The funny part is you are now being just as judgmental of me as you are complaining that I am of her. You are also tossing out personal insults against me because I tossed out a personal insult against a public figure. Isn't that rather hypocritical of you? Wouldn't that now make, by your own argument, either stupid or an idiot? (let's not forget immature); September 01, 2008 3:01 PM
apissedant said...: joshua,
You're nicer than my dad was. I had the door closed a grand total of once. That was quickly vetoed.; September 01, 2008 3:04 PM
apissedant said...: jean,
A 17 year old that calls other 17 year olds without wealthy parents murderers.

17 is old enough to be convicted as an adult, and until very recently was old enough to be executed. 17 is old enough to make a rational decision, but not old enough to be fully in charge of their emotions. Should I wait until her 18th birthday to call her a ho? Would that somehow make it better?; September 01, 2008 3:06 PM
jean said...: ap,
Go on and attack a 17 year old girl who obviously made a mistake but is doing what the parents want.
She is trapped.
You are no better that her parents in condemning her.
You are not helpful you are condemning this KID.
Oh, I forgot. She is a public figure. Out of the blue for a few days.
Go ahead, call her a ho, feel like the big intellectual, smart, all knowing, never give up kind of guy.
Even when you cut off your nose to spite yourself.
Obama would not be pround of you and there is no doubt you know it,
would never admit it, but you know it.
jean; September 01, 2008 3:10 PM
Independent Voter said...: p'd ant - we don't know that she calls other irresponsible teenagers hoes, and I for one would doubt that she does.

Perhaps the father of the kid (that she is supposedly carrying) is the only person she has ever been with. Is she still a ho? In my mind, that would be a NO! Bill was the first AND only person that I have been with, but I also know that I am in the minority within my community.

You also have to remember that Alaska has NOT rejected federal funding of sex education which means that they teach abstinence-only with medically inaccurate information. If she didn't know any better (because of the failed teachings within her home or school system) she is hardly to blame. The failure would be on the school (state - if she attended public school) and her parents.

But to come out and simply call her a ho because she has screwed up is quite harsh and inappropriate.

Bill and I have our values (even though he was a major slut in his younger years), but has remained monogamous throughout our relationship. Now I call him a slut here because I say it too him all the time and he knows that I am simply joking with him. But I don't have knee-jerk reactions and call other people sluts or hoes simply because they screw up.; September 01, 2008 3:11 PM
Joshua said...: Apissedant
After they emerged from the room while I happened to be on the same floor eating brunch, and went downstairs to his computer room, and then came back upstairs by himself, I quietly told him not to do it again.

Of course, today he has already gone and picked her up. Brought her home for a few minutes and he has driven off with her again to who knows where.; September 01, 2008 3:14 PM
Mike-in-GA said...: AP - your strong argument on the need for sex education is lost because you use the deragatory word "ho" against a teenager. My concern with the whole issue is the fact that Governor Palin and Senator McCain want to claim the "family moral values" mantel yet thier answer to this problem is that the girl's boyfriend will marry her and that the girl will not have an abortion. If this is not spin and political pandering, what is it?; September 01, 2008 3:16 PM
Beryl said...: Jean,
I don't blame the 17 year old. I blame the PARENTS (both of them) who sent her child home for supposed contagious mono and did no supervision of her.

Sarah put her 5th baby at risk with all of that TX-AK travel with her water leaking. She then returns to work after having a Downs child in 3 days giving NO time to ensure her support system is operational.

This is a woman who has shown bad judgment if we believe that she is Trig's mother.

I do not blame the child at all. I blame a mother who put her ethics and "family values" part of her campaign (like Edwards).; September 01, 2008 3:17 PM
apissedant said...: jean,
I never once claimed that my view would be accepted by Obama, nor would I ever. I said it was MY PERSONAL OPINION, and expressing it WOULD DO MORE HARM THAN GOOD.

There is a reason I would never run for public office; I believe in saying what I think regardless of who thinks what about it. I'm sure you've noticed by now.

None of my words are meant to pick on or bully anyone, or make myself feel "big." They are MY WORDS, meant to express MY OPINION.

My opinion, is that whether you're more or female, you should wait until you are emotionally and financially capable of dealing with the repercussions of sex to partake in the activity.

Those that do not wait, well, we know what I think of them.

This does not mean that I think those people are terrible people, or forever condemned by their actions. I do believe in CHANGE AND FORGIVENESS, but announcing that she will marry the father shows that she does not want either. She, and her family, are just trying to excuse her actions, not admit the fault within those actions.; September 01, 2008 3:21 PM
Vicki in Seattle said...: Since I'm childless, I won't judge; however, teenage years look like the most nerve-wracking of all, for my friends who are parents.

I offer those friends my sympathies and an understanding ear.; September 01, 2008 3:22 PM
Independent Voter said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; September 01, 2008 3:28 PM
apissedant said...: Dave,
In my PERSONAL OPINION, there are two ways to become a slut, ho, or douche bag. One way is through a number of partners, and the other is through having those relations due to peer pressure and curiosity when you are not old enough to deal with the repercussions.

I called my friend a ho just last night because she lost her V card at 13. Now, 10 years later, she's only had 4 partners, which I would bet is far below the average 23 year old, but 13 is still ridiculously young.

Just because society says something is ok does not make it so. The fact that me waiting puts me ever so slightly in the minority, (50% have lost their V card by 16-18 nationally depending on which source you use) does not make those in the majority correct.

DISCLAIMER: Now my friend and I are still friends and I don't think any less of her, I just said what I thought about what she did. She knows me very well, and pretty much let's it roll off because she has already accepted me as judgmental.; September 01, 2008 3:28 PM
Independent Voter said...: p'd ant - you are calling someone you have NEVER met, and know just about nothing about a ho. At the same time, I don't see the failure of Bristol OR your friend as being their own, it is that of their parents!; September 01, 2008 3:31 PM
apissedant said...: Dave,
Sure, I've been called that before. I'm ok with the label. Here is my question though: Why is it ok to call me a prude but wrong for me to call the other side hoes?

If one label is ok, the other side should be too.

In fact I'll offer this: I was teased at length in high school for not submitting to peer pressure, but no one teased the kids that were going out and doing their thing.

I don't agree with a society that will negatively judge and taunt those that make the proper moral decision, and will protect those that cave under pressure.; September 01, 2008 3:32 PM
apissedant said...: Now I cannot claim as Dave can that my partner was my first. I had plenty of lapses in judgment, but I made those lapses when I was emotionally and financially ready to handle the consequences, not when I would have been forced to burden others with them.

When Eva and I have our child in December, we will both be working and supporting our little boy ourselves, not dumping him off on our parents.; September 01, 2008 3:34 PM
apissedant said...: Dave,
At what point are people responsible for their own actions?

jean,
You still didn't answer this question:

Why did her parents find it necessary to announce that they were getting married at the same time they announced she was pregnant?; September 01, 2008 3:35 PM
Independent Voter said...: p'd ant - because I was JOKING. I was a prude too! Remember I didn't meet Bill until I was 20 yo and in the military.; September 01, 2008 3:35 PM
Emit R Detsaw said...: What a ridicules argue.

But......

I once used a ho,

But then I found that a rake was what I needed.; September 01, 2008 3:38 PM
apissedant said...: emit,
LOL

Dave,
But it is accepted to call someone a prude, is it not?; September 01, 2008 3:45 PM
Independent Voter said...: p'd ant - you have to remember that in their view (the "Christian" fundamentalist/extremist view) that birth control is wrong. So if the person is not given the proper information then they are ignorant in the true sense of the word, meaning they do not know any different.

It is this teaching of abstinence-only that is taking place in the education system and in the "Christian" fundamentalist/extremist households. I went to a private "Christian" school that really turned me off to religion in general due to their staunch anti-gay agenda and their inabilities to see differing perspectives than their own. Well, we all know how well that worked out don't we. LOL; September 01, 2008 3:45 PM
Independent Voter said...: LOL emit

p'd ant - it is accepted, but is used in a joking manner. When you attack someone as a ho, someone you have never met and truly know nothing about I find it entirely inappropriate. Suppose this was the first time she had sex. Is she still a ho?

One thing I am wondering however

Now the friend of yours, at the age of 13, yes that is quite young, but to call her a ho is also outrageous (simply due to that), but I'm sure you were not entirely serious when you called her that.; September 01, 2008 3:56 PM
Joshua said...: O has spoken on Palin and pregnancy:
He is a cut above the rest.

"And so I would strongly urge people to back off these kinds of stories," he said. "You know my mother had me when she was 18, and how a family deals with issues and, you know, teenage children, that shouldn't be the topic of our politics and I hope that anybody who is supporting me understands that's off limits."; September 01, 2008 3:59 PM
apissedant said...: Dave,
LOL, I PARTIALLY agree with you. I am a staunch opponent of abstinence only education. This is because I know KIDS WILL MAKE MISTAKES. The kids are still responsible for their mistakes, but the parents and the government are responsible for making their mistakes WORSE.

At the same time, I would like to point out something else: It is also against the Catholic belief to have sex before marriage. There is a very amusing "It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia" episode that illustrates this. You should watch it.

In any case... if it is against the Catholic faith to use birth control, and it is against the Catholic faith to have sex... how can they claim that they got pregnant because their religion prevents birth control when their religion also prevents the act that got them pregnant? Logic says, you're going to break one, break both. ;); September 01, 2008 4:02 PM
Joshua said...: Sarah Palin’s teenage child is off limits, but Sarah’s judgment is fair game. That includes the judgment she made about neglecting her fetus in utero.; September 01, 2008 4:03 PM
apissedant said...: josh,
Nice post, and Obama is a good man, but her proposed policies and her agenda make it an issue.

Dave,
What you are referring to is what Al Franken calls, "kidding on the square." Saying something in a joking manner that you actually mean. And sometimes I do kid on the square, but in this case, nope. Also, because you say the truth in a joking matter doesn't make the truth any less true.; September 01, 2008 4:06 PM
apissedant said...: Again, I do not plan to ever run for political office, because I believe in stating what I think when I think it. It would be politically stupid for Obama to say anything other than what he just said, but I'm not running for office, so I don't have to play nice.; September 01, 2008 4:10 PM
jean said...: joshua, Thank you and I totally agree. The teenager is totally off limits.
ap,
The question of Palin as a parent I have no problem with. She sucks in my opinion on several accounts. To call a kid a ho. It is irresponsible of the adult who says it, they know better. Or at least should.
jean; September 01, 2008 4:10 PM
apissedant said...: Those that are willing to judge my actions must be willing to accept my judgment as well. I've never met anyone who wasn't willing to judge others, so everyone is fair game. ;)

She's choosing to follow the family line and get married to some kid just because he knocked her up. Her mom can't FORCE her to get married, that is her choice. She makes this choice because she is part of the religious right. I HAVE NO PROBLEM JUDGING THE RELIGIOUS RIGHT. I DO NOT FEEL GUILTY.; September 01, 2008 4:13 PM
apissedant said...: jean,
What do I know better? Why is it irresponsible?

Your entire justification has been that she "is a kid." Explain how her being 17 prevents her from being judged.

Also, again, why did her parents feel the need to announce that she was getting married to the father at the same time they announced she was pregnant?; September 01, 2008 4:14 PM
Vicki in Seattle said...: pissed, the other side reads what we write, too. we need to rise above for the sake our Obama and his message.

Obama/Biden '08!

although it amuses me that on the women's board that I frequent, it's only the same six Republican women tsk tsking and posting on the "hope the LIBERALS can lay off the mudslinging now" thread. no one else is posting.; September 01, 2008 4:16 PM
Independent Voter said...: p'd ant - the Catholic faith does NOT teach against sex. They teach against sex before marriage! There is a HUGE difference. They believe in sex for pro-creation purposes only, and NOT for entertainment value (aka pleasure). LOL!

That is why they feel the woman is to submit to the man and obtain no pleasure from it but it is a necessity for the man to obtain pleasure because with out no child can be produced or better stated it would be very unlikely for a child to be produced.

And as far as your calling Palin's daughter a ho, Joshua is correct, she is off limits and deserves NO such label. Sarah on the other hand, well, lets get on her.; September 01, 2008 4:19 PM
apissedant said...: vicki,
You are correct. And I'm done if all else are done. I posted my opinion. Anyone could have simply posted that they disagreed with my opinion, but some instead chose to demand an apology and then judge me negatively for judging her. THAT I will respond to. A simple disagreement would have been ok, but I'm more than happy to move on to actual issues if everyone feels their voice has been heard and no more needs to be said.; September 01, 2008 4:21 PM
Independent Voter said...: Vicki, what board would that be?

And if you go over there p'd ant - PLAY NICE!; September 01, 2008 4:23 PM
apissedant said...: Dave,
She wasn't married, therefore, in her situation, the Catholic religion was against her having sex. I'm part Italian, so my entire family on one side IS Catholic. I have never been nor never plan to go, but I have the basic grasp of their rules.; September 01, 2008 4:23 PM
jean said...: ap,
You are arguing for arguments sake.
IF you read I do not agree with many of the things of how Palin has handled this.
The foundation is that a mature, educated adult should not name call a young girl who made a mistake. The conversation should be how to deal , help, have the girl grow and survive the situation.
Also, if I remember, name calling, I am sure the word HO would qualify, is not permitted on this blog.
What do you have? A free hall pass.
What you said was WRONG.
That you cannot admit it is your problem, and as others have said,
it has gotten ridiculous.
Would you go up to her and say she was a ho?
jean; September 01, 2008 4:23 PM
Vicki in Seattle said...: it's a women's board, closed to the public. there are perhaps 100-200 women that post there, some more frequently than others.

pissed, it's not a place you'd be welcomed. you don't mess with the menopausal, trust me on this one.; September 01, 2008 4:31 PM
apissedant said...: jean,
No, I'm arguing because you called me stupid, immature, and demanded an apology.

I dislike the religious right. These are the same people that attack Chelsea Clinton, while a teenager, for BEING UGLY. These are the same people that attacked Michelle for being an America hating racist. These are unnecessary attacks, and at least one of them is not true.

When these people make serious moral mistakes that disagree with their own personal politics, I WILL ATTACK THEM ON THE ISSUES THAT THEY MADE ISSUES BY RUNNING ON FAMILY VALUES AND MORALITY.

Bill Clinton didn't run on family values or morality, he ran on, "it's the economy stupid." These Republicans made it an issue. If they want it to be an issue, then they have to live with the consequences of it becoming an issue.; September 01, 2008 4:31 PM
apissedant said...: vicki,
It's ok, I don't think I'd want to venture there. As it is, most of my friends are either gay or female. I feel like I'm drowning in a sea of estrogen already. ;); September 01, 2008 4:33 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: In my opinion all the 'ho' talk should be put aside and let's move on.

If someone on this blog has called a friend someething and that friend is cool with it then there is no issue.

Besides it has nothing to do with the election or the issues of this election.

Obama-Biden '08; September 01, 2008 4:33 PM
jean said...: ap,
ONE MORE TIME.
You called a 17yr old girl a ho and you don't know her etc.
This is not about the issues.
I have no problem with issues and I agree with almost if not all you said about the issues.
What you did was wrong.
Leave her alone, and you did not answer MY question.
Would you call her a ho to her face?
jean; September 01, 2008 4:36 PM
jean said...: ap,
A real man or woman admits their mistake and changes their mind.
Those that don't, well, I believe we call those Republicans.
jena; September 01, 2008 4:41 PM
apissedant said...: jean,
YES; September 01, 2008 4:41 PM
Joshua said...: It is obvious to almost every poster at this site, but the following are legitimate areas of inquiry concerning the fitness of Sarah Palin to be VP:
1. Is she falsely claiming a grandchild as her child?
2. Has she been part of tampering with or falsifying a birth certificate?
3. Is she a fit parent?
4. Does she make good judgments?
5. How does her policy of abstinence-only sex education impact the public health.; September 01, 2008 4:42 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: OBAMA-BIDEN '08

I am READY to VOTE NOW!!!; September 01, 2008 4:44 PM
apissedant said...: joshua,
I agree with all except possibly 1 or 2.; September 01, 2008 4:44 PM
Mike-in-GA said...: APA - take a breath - Everyone else - what do you all think of the Republicans publicizing Hurricane Gustav at thier convention? After 30+ years of drinking thier "elixir tonic" - I wish I could honestly believe that this was sincere and not a ploy to use the misery of the gulf citizens to make political points. I just can't get it out of my mind that this is another McCain scheme. I saw it so much when I was devoted Republican - that it looks the same to me now.; September 01, 2008 4:55 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: A good article to read:

http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/sally_quinn/2008/08/sarah_polin.html

Excerpt:

Those are positives for a McCain-Palin ticket, but what about the negatives?

She has no national political experience, especially in the area of foreign policy. That fact that she is not of Washington also will be difficult for her. Barbara Bush once told me that her husband had been a congressman, UN ambassador, ambassador to China, and head of the CIA and they thought they were prepared for the vice presidency (under President Reagan). But she said nothing can prepare you for the criticism and scrutiny of being in the White House. Sarah Palin is not prepared for that.
----------; September 01, 2008 4:56 PM
Independent Voter said...: It's ok, I don't think I'd want to venture there. As it is, most of my friends are either gay or female. I feel like I'm drowning in a sea of estrogen already. ;)

RUDE RUDE RUDE! ROFLMAO!

He just took a swipe at us all! LMAO!; September 01, 2008 4:56 PM
Beryl said...: "
4. Does she make good judgments?
5. How does her policy of abstinence-only sex education impact the public health.
"

Agreed.

6. How does her behavior effect her position on the Family Leave Act and how she governs in this area.; September 01, 2008 4:56 PM
jean said...: ap,
You are obviously a real man and that is appreciated.
You are also exhausting LOL.
jean; September 01, 2008 4:56 PM
apissedant said...: Dave,
LOL, I thought you'd like that one. ;)

Jean,
I'm honestly mean, and I make no apologies for it, even if it isn't always appropriate. I'll scan my letter of recommendation from my boss at school if you want. LOL

She praised my work repeatedly, and then there's a paragraph about me personally that is not as nice.; September 01, 2008 5:01 PM
Independent Voter said...: Ok, I'm done on the whole ho business.

As far as McCain politicizing the whole Gustav thing, of course he is. When Katrina hit, he was more than okay with sharing his birthday cake with Bush. Earlier in the season, when Obama honored the wishes of the Iowa governor, he stayed clear, but what did McDouchebag do? He politicized that too. He doesn't give two 'you know whats' about the people. He ONLY cares about his political future.

I still like Janet Napolitano's statement to the DNC Arizonans are also proud of their political tradition, from Barry Goldwater to Mo Udall to Bruce Babbitt. There's a pattern here. Barry Goldwater ran for president and he lost. Mo Udall ran for president. He lost. Bruce Babbitt ran for president. And he lost. Speaking for myself, and for at least this coming election, this is one Arizona tradition I'd like to see continue!; September 01, 2008 5:05 PM
Vicki in Seattle said...: ap, in a room full of menopausal women, you probably have the most estrogen of all.

VBG; September 01, 2008 5:07 PM
apissedant said...: vicki,
OUCH! lol; September 01, 2008 5:09 PM
apissedant said...: Dave,
I posted earlier that if hurricanes only came in presidential election years, the people would be much safer. Bush was on the ground in 2004 as well. For some reason 2005 wasn't important... weird...; September 01, 2008 5:10 PM
jean said...: ap,
So are you like Red from that 70's show or is there somethingelse I should consider.
jean; September 01, 2008 5:18 PM
apissedant said...: jean,
That's a rough equivalent, except fast forward 30 years where women are equal. ;); September 01, 2008 5:21 PM
Independent Voter said...: VICKI - OUCH! You SOOOOOOOO went there. I love it. Touche!; September 01, 2008 5:28 PM
Independent Voter said...: p'd ant - I agree with the whole hurricane issue. I can't wait until I get to hear all the Dems attack McCain on his policies after his "acceptance speech" at their convention. I won't be watching, but I will read it. I don't want to be responsible for pushing up tv ratings for that jerk. ;); September 01, 2008 5:31 PM
jean said...: ap,
Yep.
I am married to one of those but with 30 years more experience.
Got it :0

vicki,
Very nice LOL.
jean; September 01, 2008 5:33 PM
apissedant said...: Dave,
I've been struggling with that same problem. I want them to have bad ratings, and I know whatever they say will piss me off.... but I still want to be informed. It is a tough battle.; September 01, 2008 5:38 PM
Karen Anne said...: "Her mom can't FORCE her to get married, that is her choice."

Uhh, sure. She's what, 17? pregnant. no means of support. She gets married or is tossed out in the street, maybe, if she were in a regular family. I think you forget how vulnerable young girls are.

In her unique circumstances, however, someone would probably be glad to come to her rescue.; September 01, 2008 5:51 PM
apissedant said...: Karen,
We're done with that discussion... but it is her dependence that makes her actions so irresponsible. Kids do have free will, they can't go through their entire life just blaming their parents for every bad decision they make.; September 01, 2008 5:53 PM
Mike in Maryland said...: I was wondering how the word 'ho' got into the vernacular. I couldn't find a confirmation, but this one definition is how I think it probably crossed to the vernacular:

HO: (in police use) habitual offender

Habitual is defined as:
Being such by force of habit: a habitual liar. See Synonyms at chronic.

and

Established by long use; usual: my habitual place. See Synonyms at usual.

Therefore, if anyone is to call someone a 'ho', then they should be prepared to defend the habitualness of that charge.

As to this whole issue, it DOES open up a policy issue the Democrats can pursue, albeit with some danger.

That is the issue of lack of education, especially sex education, and showing why the (so-called) abstinence-only policies so not work.

Most abstinence-only programs do not teach the students what it means to be a parent, both emotionally and financially, both before and after the birth. Most such programs do not teach the students of the potential health problems that the baby might face, both in utero and post birth. It does not teach the students of the potential health problems that the mother might face, prior to the birth and after the birth.

The danger is that in speaking of this policy issue, it would be almost certain that the pregnancy of Bristol would be brought up in a tangential manner, either implicitly or explicitly by one or both sides of the debate, and that is where the danger lies - many would see it as an attack on Bristol, not a discussion of the abstinence-only policy.

Mike; September 01, 2008 6:00 PM
apissedant said...: Mike,
Agreed with the second half. As to the first half, I would assume it would just be a shortened version of whore originally, but the original definition is not too important. The current definition is very subjective. If a precise definition were required, IE a number of partners required, or a age or situation in which it was inappropriate or "ho-ish", the definitions would undoubtedly be different.; September 01, 2008 6:03 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Republican convention....

I thought McCain said that they were taking off their republicans and putting on their American hats during the hurricane?

Already they have shown a video of Gov. Rick Perry praising the REPUBLICANS regarding the hurricane efforts!!!

I can tell already that this REP convention is going to be making me mad for the next four days!

Gustav is a Category 1 - it is time for the Republicans to stop talking about the hurricane and have their normal convention.; September 01, 2008 6:13 PM
jean said...: karen anne,
Go for it.
Talk about relapse.
jean; September 01, 2008 6:14 PM
Joshua said...: Mike in Maryland
Will you accept hotel ?; September 01, 2008 6:16 PM
apissedant said...: Leah,
AND it struck 120 miles from New Orleans. Not exactly a true test of the levy system.; September 01, 2008 6:18 PM
Karen Anne said...: Mike in M,

I thought ho was short for whore...

I just looked and Merriam-Webster thinks so too.

ap, I'll be done with that discussion when I see a copy of Trig's birth certificate and believe it hasn't been cooked.; September 01, 2008 6:18 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Palin has hired lawyer as trooper probe continues

Posted: 05:52 PM ET

From CNN Correspondent Dana Bash

(CNN) – Alaska Governor Sarah Palin hired a lawyer three weeks ago to act on her behalf as state legislators investigate whether she may have abused her power in firing the state police chief for refusing to fire her ex-brother-in-law, a state trooper, CNN has confirmed.

A report of findings of a legislative inquiry that began several weeks ago is currently slated to be released just days before Election Day.; September 01, 2008 6:19 PM
Beryl said...: I have to pass on the RNC this year. I do not have an open mind about this election and don't want to listen to garbage.; September 01, 2008 6:21 PM
apissedant said...: karen,
LOL, ok.

Beryl,
But when debating or trying to convince others to vote the way you want... isn't it best to know what to argue against?

Believe it or not, I do know how to put on my moderate hate when trying to shore up a few extra votes. ;)

I just really don't like my moderate hat, and try to use it as infrequently as possible.; September 01, 2008 6:25 PM
jean said...: joshua,
You are quite relevant;)
I appreciate that you do not skirt the issue.

ap,
It was said here that 65 miles is all that was needed so the eye missed.
To then go to a category 1!!!!!!!!!!
Milking it is putting it mildly with how they are comparing it.
I am sure the media will bring that out pretty soon.
jean; September 01, 2008 6:31 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Palin Received Millions In Earmarks, Clouding Reformer Image

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/01/palin-received-millions-i_n_123004.html

.; September 01, 2008 6:33 PM
apissedant said...: tear gas on used on protesters of the RNC; September 01, 2008 6:35 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Elsewhere on the comments on DCW posted by Karen Anne...

NBC: Republicans Vetting Palin NOW

Peacock Web’s Andrea Mitchell: “There are reports that there are Republican lawyers right now up in Alaska doing a deeper vet on Sarah Palin despite their claim that everything about her background was fully known.”
-----; September 01, 2008 6:36 PM
apissedant said...: self described anarchists are the trouble makers, not democrats. ;); September 01, 2008 6:37 PM
apissedant said...: "I want to thank you and I want to thank all the people of the Republican Party," said Linda Greene, director of the International Services of Hope facility. "And I'm very thankful -- this is coming from my heart -- for their not squandering a bunch of money like that and that you're actually going to help those people."

She also admonished the media, urging them to "say something positive about why the Republican Party is not having a big hoopla."

According to Republicans, a break from politics means everyone praises Republicans. FAT CHANCE.; September 01, 2008 6:40 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: GOP Flails To Keep 'Experience' Issue Alive

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/01/gop-flails-to-keep-experi_n_123002.html

.; September 01, 2008 6:43 PM
Emit R Detsaw said...: Had a nice 90 minute nap......

RNC on CSPAN

LOL; September 01, 2008 6:45 PM
Emit R Detsaw said...: Most interesting thing out of the RNC today was listening to the votes to hear a couple nays. ;o)

Also, if you could muddle through the legal mumbo jumbo, they actually removed some delegates that didn't want to vote with them and replaced them with alternates. LOL; September 01, 2008 6:47 PM
Independent Voter said...: Now I know you are going to say, I'm not going to go to dailykos, HOWEVER, apparently Palin was a member of AIP (Alaskan Independence Party) until she ran for mayor. Their main objective is to secede from the United States.

There are several video clips of her addressing them at their convention THIS year at this entry; September 01, 2008 7:12 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Indy-

Right above the last video it says:

This last clip is a continuation of the speech from Dexter Clark, the Vice Chairman from the AIP. In it, he talks about the necessity of infiltrating the major national parties in order to further the goals of the AIP.

-----
Palin is toast! When she flys back home to get more clothes she might as well just stay there!; September 01, 2008 7:28 PM
Mike in Maryland said...: Karen Anne said...
I thought ho was short for whore...

The police would write HO (Habitual Offender) in their report if they had arrested this person many times for being a whore. One arrest would probably not get the HO annotation in a police report, and certainly not in court unless the prosecution could prove the habitualness of the action.

Joshua,

As to it being derived from 'hotel', not all whores use hotels. Most who do 'incall' (the 'client' goes to the site) service use motels, especially those that charge an hourly rate, so wouldn't the vernacular be 'mo', not 'ho'? On the other hand, many who do 'outcall' (to the 'clients' choice of location) go to the home of the client, so that might explain the 'ho'.

All in all, I think it at least partially derived from the Habitual Offender initials 'HO' used in police reports. Location of arrest would not be a factor, just the 'habitual' part of the police description.

I am not very versed in etymology (the derivation of a word), though, so don't put down a large bet on what I said above as being totally correct. VBG

I will state that in my opinion, calling a person a 'ho' means that person is habitual in having sex, (i.e., whoring), whether it is for pay or not. And it is someone who has had multiple partners over a period of time. Since we don't know how many sexual partners that Bristol has had, calling her a 'ho' is in bad taste until it can be determined if she did or did not have multiple sexual partners. I'll leave that investigation up to someone from the National Enquirer, Hustler, or other similar 'journalistic' source, thank you!

Mike; September 01, 2008 7:44 PM
Karen Anne said...: I stole this from the humor section of the Times, which stole it from Bill Maher:

Are you kidding me, the mayor of Wasilla, Alaska? Yeah, that’s who you want in the White House during a time of crisis. When she got a phone call at 3 in the morning, it was because a moose had gotten in the garbage can.

I think this is pertinent because McCain has been running this campaign based on, we’re at war, it’s a dangerous world out there. The Democrats don’t get that. I, John McCain, am the only one standing between the bloodthirsty Al Qaedas and you. But if I die, this stewardess can handle it.; September 01, 2008 7:45 PM
Beryl said...: Someone posted this on another Obama list. I'd never thought of it and now I'm really angry at Sarah Palin:

"
Palin Violates the Privacy of Her Own Daughter for Political Gain

Sarah Palin said that they were announcing the pregnancy of her daughter to head off the rumors that her daughter was the mother of the 4 month old baby boy. Here’s the obvious question: If she really was the child’s mother, all she need do is provide a legal birth certificate for the child or the results of the genetic testing they did to diagnose the Down’s Syndrome. She didn’t need to embarrass her daughter by revealing her unwed pregnancy now. They simply could have announced her daughter’s pregnancy when it became more obvious or when she married the guy, maybe even after the election win or lose. And Palin herself could take the usual steps to head off the rumor, if that’s what it is.

She can’t violate her daughter’s privacy then demand of the rest of us that we not go there, not go where she precisely has just gone!

This story doesn’t say anything about her daughter, good or bad. She’s just a very normal teenager. But what her mother has done is outrageous. And if her mother puts herself out as having the judgment to be the leader of the free world, it is a valid topic for political discussion!!!"; September 01, 2008 7:48 PM
Mike in Maryland said...: Leah Texas4Obama said...
Palin has hired lawyer as trooper probe continues

This IS funny. The Alaska legislature is doing the investigation. The Alaskan State legislature is controlled in both houses by Republicans - the state Senate has 11 Republicans and 9 Democrats. The state House of Representatives has 23 Republicans and 17 Democrats. This means that at least some Republicans in both chambers had to vote to start an investigation. That also means the investigation cannot be called a Democratic-led partisan witch hunt.

Mike; September 01, 2008 7:54 PM
Karen Anne said...: Beryl,

One explanation is that the daughter is Trig's mom, and they are lying about the five months now.

That's why a birth certificate or DNA would have not worked.

If that's the case, I think the word monster is not inappropriate.; September 01, 2008 8:05 PM
Vicki in Seattle said...: I think troopergate is more interesting.; September 01, 2008 8:08 PM
Beryl said...: Exactly Karen Anne. I've always suspected that Trig is Sarah's grandson but I didn't want to falsely accuse her.

However, her actions today was not the way to put the matter to rest. She just could have produced DNA and Downs Syndrome test results. Instead, she embarrassed her daughter for political gain.

Now I'm really mad at her and fighting tears while keying this up. Sarah Palin had no reason to embarrass her daughter. She is a monster no matter how you look at this thing now.o; September 01, 2008 8:13 PM
Independent Voter said...: MSNBC just showed a VERY short clip (without audio) of the RNC. I saw that the woman who sang the National Anthem wearing a tiara (MY tiara damn it), and thought to myself, WTF is up with McCain and the g-damn "beauty queens". Cindy is going to be awfully busy if she want to be queen of the US.

Well evidently it was Miss Minnesota.; September 01, 2008 8:21 PM
Independent Voter said...: According to a local Alaska TV station Palin was pregnant in April 2008; September 01, 2008 8:55 PM
Richard said...: Barack has asked us to lay off of Palin's family, and I think we should listen to him.; September 01, 2008 8:59 PM
Independent Voter said...: Rich, I agree. I posted that to STOP the rumors.; September 01, 2008 9:02 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Top Headlines at www.HuffingtonPost.com

… Top Republican Governor: No Talk Of Removing Palin From The Ticket …

'Fringe' Alaskan Secessionist Party: Palin Was A Member...

Almost Recalled As Mayor...

Directed Fundraising For Indicted Senator's 527...

Troopergate Scandal...

Calls Iraq A War For Oil...

Admits She Hasn't 'Really Focused On Iraq'...

Alaska National Guard General: Palin Plays No Role In National Defense...

17 Year-Old Daughter Pregnant...

------------------------------
And it has only been about 72 hours that McCain announced his VP pick!; September 01, 2008 9:15 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Ap
chelsea might have been an ugly duckling when she was young but she has turned into a SWAN. AJ; September 01, 2008 9:55 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Since Palin wants Alaska to be it's own separate nation - this explains why she didn't want her son Trig to be born in Texas and she spent 12 hours flying back to Alaska to have him!!! Maybe she was planning on running as President of Alaska!

Palin appears to be very UN-American!; September 01, 2008 9:59 PM
jean said...: Just watched NBC(I think, was a major network) about the Reps.
They showed a meeting with the NRA and trucking (walked in when the husband was laughing)when all meetings were asked not to commence unless it was absolutely necessary. Major business going on.
They made sure to mention that the band playing was called "Hookers and Blow"
There you go.
jean; September 01, 2008 10:00 PM
Beryl said...: AJ
I don't think Chelsea was ugly as a child. I honestly do not believe any child is ugly. Disfigured sometimes but not ugly. None of us control how we turn out.

I still hold it against McCain for making that comment. He is no Brad Pitt, Mark Wahlberg, or Denzel Washington himself.; September 01, 2008 10:03 PM
Joshua said...: If Sarah Palin is Trig’s mother, then that is the most bizarre childbirth I have ever heard of. Let me get this straight:
1. The governor of a state at age 44 goes into labor in Texas on Thursday. She waits and gives her prepared speech. Takes an 8-hr flight back to Alaska. Gets into an automobile and drives 45 minutes to some hospital in the middle of nowhere and has her baby delivered by a family physician. She does not have family members come and be supportive, and after she delivers on Friday she sends them an email to inform them that she gave birth. Monday morning she is back at work like nothing happened? Here is my question: exactly what have you been smoking to think that this is how women give birth?
2. For the women who read these posts and who have given birth, how many of you notified your relatives that you have given birth by email after the fact?
3. If Trig is not her biologic grandson, then she stole that baby from the hospital. Folks, women steal babies from hospitals all the time and make up stories such as this. It is far more credible that Sarah stole this baby than that she gave birth under the circumstances she described.
4. I may be off on a limb here but Sarah could actually be postmenopausal; which means that she will give birth about as easily as a male construction worker can.; September 01, 2008 10:05 PM
apissedant said...: AJ,
Yes, she has turned into a successful and attractive young woman. Insulting a 13 year old girl on her looks, that she had no control over, was truly low and uncalled for.; September 01, 2008 10:07 PM
Joshua said...: Rich, aka PUMA.
We are talking about Sarah and whether or not she is a criminal. No one is talking about her family. It so happens that her possible crime is related to childbirth, hence the relevance of discussing childbirth. Why don’t you understand the difference between discussing Sarah and discussing Sarah’s family?; September 01, 2008 10:09 PM
Joshua said...: I V, that picture means nothing. Why is it that there is no clear picture of her pregnant surrounded by family? Why does that picture look like a photoshop item? I looked at it and I can’t clearly make out her anatomy as distinct from padding. What is so hard about producing a birth certificate?; September 01, 2008 10:12 PM
Joshua said...: If Sarah Palin will out her own teenage daughter to the national media and exposing her as being pregnant, are you telling me she is concerned about privacy against producing a birth certificate? A legal, state-issued document that only has mother, father, ethnicity, name and date of birth on it?

This story has legs.; September 01, 2008 10:15 PM
jean said...: Sorry, It was ABC and it was the Republican Convention report.
The husband was laughing so hard about the "Hookers and Blow" band I could barely understand him.
jean; September 01, 2008 10:22 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: So she *does* have foreign policy experience

as she sees it: she's well versed in relations between Alaska and the U.S.!

-----

Hahahaha! ;); September 01, 2008 10:25 PM
Independent Voter said...: Joshua, first of all, Rick is not a PUMA. He as well as many of us, would like to let go of the whole Trig story. If someone is able to get a copy of the birth certificate and proves the rumor correct, then fine, but until that happens it is merely rumor and smear tactics that are no better than the Republicans.

Until there is actual PROOF comes to the surface I will not say another word about it. If there is concrete physical evidence that shows that she has lied about the situation, then I will discuss the LIE, but NOT the child or her daughter's child. I think it is totally disrespectful of us to do so.

Now the daughter's current pregnancy should not be a topic of discussion, but teenage pregnancy in general SHOULD be a topic of discussion when it comes to education. But to single ONE individual out because they have made a mistake is plain and simply put, wrong. That is MY opinion. I'm sure that you and p'd ant disagree with me on that. Again that is why it is my opinion and ONLY my opinion.

Obama has asked that people stop discussing Palin's family issues and I intend to carry out his wishes. I will however not continue to speak out in favor of comprehensive sex education versus abstinence-only education.; September 01, 2008 10:32 PM
Independent Voter said...: Joshua, as far as her outing her daughter, I agree with you in the fact that it was horrible for her to do. But I refuse to get further into the gutter/sewer that is typically reserved for Republicans.; September 01, 2008 10:35 PM
Independent Voter said...: LOL Leah, that is definitely a good one.; September 01, 2008 10:36 PM
apissedant said...: Dave,
I agree with almost everything. I will only refer to the fact that her own family is proof of that abstinence based programs don't work. I believe you have a typo in your final sentence though.; September 01, 2008 10:40 PM
Beryl said...: Now this is an anorexic resume:
http://www.deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,700254763,00.html; September 01, 2008 10:41 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: USA Today/Gallup poll:

Obama 50, McCain 43

Dates conducted: Aug. 30-31.; September 01, 2008 10:42 PM
apissedant said...: *the fact that; September 01, 2008 10:46 PM
Richard said...: Thank you, Dave.; September 01, 2008 10:53 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: OBAMA - BIDEN '08; September 01, 2008 10:58 PM
Independent Voter said...: OMG! I am hi-jacking this from Rick over at ABC's blog about Palin being a separatists:

I guess this is what the Republicans mean by "reduce the size of government!"

One state at a time...

I thought it was perfect.; September 01, 2008 11:07 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Palin did NOT win Miss Congeniality...

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/columnists.nsf/debpeterson/story/23D7A0CF8A2E3A61862574B50011DB30?OpenDocument

.
The fibbing is adding up now!; September 01, 2008 11:09 PM
Independent Voter said...: Oops! Thank you p'd ant - I meant to say that "I will continue to speak out in favor of comprehensive sex education versus abstinence-only education."

(Original quote was I will however not continue to speak out in favor of comprehensive sex education versus abstinence-only education.

------

You're welcome Rick.; September 01, 2008 11:10 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Palin gets the 3am phone call:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=09LtRq2g1f4

.; September 01, 2008 11:12 PM
suzihussein22 said...: I was pretty sure the pic had been photoshopped. It was a little bit of satire. ;)

The more I google what hasn't been removed, the more I take issue with Palin's judgement as an authority figure and a parent.

Having had 2 children, I can't see not going straight to a hospital or going back to work less than 4 wks. after having a baby under normal circumstances, much less a premature birth with special needs. Boys also usually have a harder go of it anyway when the deck is stacked against them. It's also interesting that there weren't any news archives about Palin announcing her pregnancy, at least that I've found.

iv dave-I'm impressed that you waited and that you talked about it in this forum. I hope Bill's fingers are healing well.; September 01, 2008 11:16 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Jon Stewart and Colbert re: Palin

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Aj2w0OdiIM

.; September 01, 2008 11:17 PM
Emit R Detsaw said...: Suzi, there was a story where she told her staff about being pregnant. Also in that article they said none of the staff had noticed. I think that was in February 2008. Can't find the article now but it was the Anchorage paper.

To spin the conversation a different direction on the same topic -

1) If we believe some of the facts as told, Bristol is 5 months pregnant. That means that it is highly against the odds that she could have given birth in Mid April. Could, but unlikely.

2) Fact, Palin was back at work Monday after claiming to have given birth on Friday.

Conspiracy Theory twist.... Palin had a friend that was having a baby and she did an illegal adoption so the person wouldn't have an abortion. It could explain a lot of things.

Not juicy enough..... Her husband had an affair and she said she would keep him if she could keep the baby.

LOL; September 01, 2008 11:30 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Donna Brazile Hit by Pepper Spray

By Holly Watt
ST. PAUL -- Donna Brazile was hit by pepper spray as she walked to the Xcel Center at the start of the Republican Convention here.

The well-known Democratic pundit and strategist confirmed the incident, but declined to comment further. Protests outside the convention center led to 56 arrests earlier in the day.

Brazile is the Chair of the Democratic National Committee's Voting Rights Institute and was a delegate at the Democratic National Convention in Denver.

Originally from New Orleans, La., Brazile has worked on several presidential campaigns and was the campaign manager for Al Gore in 2000. She frequently appears on CNN as a political commentator.

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/09/01/donna_brazile_hit_by_pepper_sp.html; September 01, 2008 11:31 PM
Karen Anne said...: Another 3am one -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2FWYgkKxnFM&NR=1; September 01, 2008 11:34 PM
suzihussein22 said...: leah-Thanks for the link. I can't get a feed straight from Comedy Central.

e r d-Thanks. I had a little bit of upset tonight from a few friends that aren't being very open-minded about the candidates.; September 01, 2008 11:38 PM
suzihussein22 said...: karen anne-Yep, lol. Should somebody teach her or should we see if she can take an online class.

e r d-Interesting how the staff hadn't noticed.; September 01, 2008 11:41 PM
suzihussein22 said...: Have a good night, y'all.; September 01, 2008 11:42 PM
apissedant said...: Ok, terrible comment I just read over at YOUTUBE, but it made me laugh, so I'm going to repeat it anyways. AGAIN, I DID NOT WRITE THIS!

"The most popular gov of Alaska. Who gives a shit. Think about her as President when or if McLame bites it. We can't have this stupid shit anymore. I want a politician I can respect not one to wank off to."; September 01, 2008 11:57 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Levi Johnston: Bristol Palin's Baby Daddy Revealed

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/01/levi-johnston-bristol-pal_n_123089.html

---

Those are some bad words he has on his MySpace page -- I guess they weren't scrubbed in time! And he doesn't want to have kids!; September 01, 2008 11:58 PM
suzihussein22 said...: I know, I know, I said goodnight, but now I'm also changing my topic a little bit-

http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2008/09/01/politics/fromtheroad/entry4405349.shtml

See how Biden complements Obama's energy plan? That's part of what a v.p. does Ms. Palin...just some free advice...and don't carry a metal umbrella in a storm. ;); September 02, 2008 12:11 AM
Karen Anne said...: Leah,

Who's that blonde wrapped around Levi? Is that Bristol with dyed hair or someone else?

What a moron to have left that kids remark on his page.; September 02, 2008 12:20 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Karen Anne -

Nope that doesn't look like Bristol at all.; September 02, 2008 12:24 AM
Beryl said...: This is for AJ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y8ivS4N6Dak

You go Hill!; September 02, 2008 12:27 AM
Karen Anne said...: I'm not a myspace wizard, but it looks like his page is gone.

Don't marry this guy, Bristol. Run like the wind. (I hope she has some say in the matter.); September 02, 2008 12:37 AM
apissedant said...: karen,
I just spent the last hour looking and came up blank too. I even browsed 17-19 year olds from Wasilla to see if I could find something... but there were surprisingly quite a few pages, and I got no where. =/

Several are set to private, and several just set the photos to private. Not cool, I'm trying to snoop here!; September 02, 2008 12:46 AM
Bob in Vancouver said...: I am now at the point where I beleive that the Republican mover-shakers will step in and force Sarah Palin to withdraw. It is clear that this woman is a loose cannon on a rolling deck. The longer it goes on the more rubish surfaces. She has to go.

Unfortunately, the democrats will have to wait to see who the replacement will be.; September 02, 2008 1:05 AM
Independent Voter said...: Bob, if they were smart they would remove both of them from and put a couple of centrists on the ticket.

But like I said before, I think they will keep these two idiots on the ticket.; September 02, 2008 1:36 AM
tmess2 said...: I am thinking that the Republicans are going to live to regret the decision to have their convention so late.

First, they put it into the peak of hurricane season -- costing them Monday and maybe Thursday.

Second, the clock is ticking for a candidate to withdraw. Think of how bad it would be to have McCain-Palin as the ticket in some states and McCain-Pawlenty as the ticket in other states.

I think Palin survives the week. I can also see Slate putting a clock on her survival (like they did for Alberto Gonzales as AG).

I want to see more verified information on that Alaskan separatist group -- that could be very damaging for moderate Republicans in swing states. Though it might actually gain votes for the Republicans in the Rocky Mountains and the South.; September 02, 2008 2:01 AM
Independent Voter said...: tmess, I don't think it would go over too well since we get so much oil out of Alaska. It would also immediately open up drilling in ANWR and would never have to go through the US.; September 02, 2008 2:16 AM
Independent Voter said...: Well, goodnight all, school starts in the morning. See you late tomorrow evening. I don't get out until 6:40.......UGH!; September 02, 2008 2:17 AM
Bob in Vancouver said...: Forgtetting, and moving on from the pregnacy issue, I now understand from several web sites that

a) Sarah Palin knew about the approaches being made to the commissioner regarding the firing of her brother-in-law. And admits to some involvement.

b) There is evidence that Sarah Palin's husband was involved in the pressuring of the commissioner.

c) I have heard the recorded telephone conversation and it undeniable that there was pressure placed on the commssioner.

d) There is e-mail evidence that Sarah Palin was involved in the pressuring of the commissioner.

e) The person Sarah Palin installed in the Commissioners place was a high school buddy, who had to be removed within two weeks of his appointment because of sexual harrasment issues

f) Sarah Palin had fired the chief of police in Wasilla some years before for not supporting her mayoralty bid, but was settled out of court.

g) Sarah Palin fired the entire board who oversaw milk production in Alaska because of subsidies issues, and appointed a new board that came back with the same recommendations.

This gal is a viper with a lust for power which she clearly likes to abuse.; September 02, 2008 2:28 AM
Kujo said...: Bridge to No Where is still being built.

I was going to give credit to Palin for at least one thing. She and McCain were crediting her for getting rid of the Bridge to No Where.

But in further looking at it (as many have read already), she was not the one who was responsible for bringing this to light. In fact she championed it even when it was being called a Bridge to No Where.

Then after being elected, when it became a big scandle, she then came out against the Bridge.

But did she, not really. The money 320 million was still given to Alaska to fix road ways and if the State wanted to build the bridge with there own money, they could.

While the imeadiate building of the bridge was stopped, the construction of the roads leading up to the bridge has continued. Using Federal money for this is ok. Also any other state roadway can now be using this federal money. The money that would have gone for these jobs can now be used as state money for building the bridge.

Palin felt as long as the building of the Bridge was done later and said to be with State Money (actually just doing a shell game with federal money), then public will not know any better.; September 02, 2008 3:06 AM
Joshua said...: Independent Voter

If Rich (vtslayer) is not a PUMA, then he is a republican troll. Those are the only two types who think, like Rich, that Obama’s religion is still a subject for discussion. I am very surprised that you have not picked up on that fact. No poster who means Obama well posts like this.; September 02, 2008 3:42 AM

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