Democratic Convention Watch: Open Thread

Tuesday, April 01, 2008

Open Thread

WE'VE MOVED! Democratic Convention Watch is now at http://www.DemocraticConventionWatch.com

What is McCain's latest "senior moment", what does Obama need to do to win in November or whatever else is on your mind.

And please be excellent to one another. We do not accept name calling or any attacks on our commenters. Any objectionable comments will be deleted. Try to be civil.

Thanks!

Previous Open Thread is here

9481 comments:

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Leah Texas4Obama said...: PALIN TALKS ABOUT INVADING RUSSIA

US-RUSSIA WAR OVER GEORGIA MAY BE NECESSARY..

Doesn't Know What Bush Doctrine Is...

ABC's Gibson: What Are Your National Security Credentials...?

My National Security Credentials Have To Do With Energy...

www.HuffingtonPost.com

.
She doesn't know anything - Palin is an empty suit PUPPET !!!; September 11, 2008 7:54 PM
Dilbuck said...: Leah, that right there is the reason this woman scares me to death. I think this part of the interview sums her up.

PALIN: We have to keep our eyes on Russia. Under the leadership there.

GIBSON: What insight into Russian actions does the proximity of the state give you?

PALIN: They're our next door neighbors. And you can actually see Russia from land here in Alaska.; September 11, 2008 7:58 PM
Doug said...: Was that really Sarah Pallin being interviewed or was it an SNL sketch? They won't have to change a thing--just run it Sat night, it is hilarious! But also scary as well when you think what it would really mean to have her "a heartbeat away..."; September 11, 2008 8:28 PM
suzihussein22 said...: Russian bombers in Venezuala and now our ambassador must leave Venezuala within the next 72 hrs...is there a connection?; September 11, 2008 8:35 PM
Ruby in Kansas said...: Is anybody watching McPalin on the Forum? What do you think?; September 11, 2008 8:40 PM
Doug said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; September 11, 2008 8:46 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: CNN has a live blog going on regarding the Obama McCain forum.

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/09/11/tonight-live-blog-with-the-best-political-team/#comment-1705418

.; September 11, 2008 8:47 PM
Beryl said...: McSame did OK and tried to cleaned Palin's nastiness on "community organizers". That was an UGLY patch for the Republicans. It only demonstrated that they don't care anything about the people. Money is the god of Repigs.

Obama is doing great in this forum, of course. Democrats care about people. It is the strength of the party.; September 11, 2008 9:09 PM
Beryl said...: I so enjoy listening to Obama. His tone is soothing and he clearly THINKS as opposed just spouting off things from the top of his head (e.g bomb bomb bomb Iran).

He is cerebral though and that is a wonderful change from the last 8 years.; September 11, 2008 9:23 PM
jean said...: Just saying,
Breaking News
Ike has turned directly to Houston.
It is BAD.
Leah, Aunt Jean.
TAKE CARE.
jean; September 11, 2008 9:43 PM
jean said...: Husband is watching.
CNN says expecting over 90 mile an hour winds in Houston and great concern with the skyscrapers.
Prayers and thinking of you.
jean; September 11, 2008 9:49 PM
Vicki in Seattle said...: My deepest hopes and prayers for all of you in Texas. my thoughts are with you.

I hear Palin stumbled in the Gibson interview.

Loved the service interviews. love them.; September 11, 2008 10:02 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Is it just me or does it look like Palin has aged 10 years in the four photos at the top of this page:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/politics/

Maybe she didn't get to take a makeup artist and hair stylist with her back to Alaska!

What do ya'll think?; September 11, 2008 10:38 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: YESSSSSS ------- SNL this Saturday!

Live, From New York: Barack Obama!

http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20225274,00.html; September 11, 2008 10:40 PM
Vicki in Seattle said...: I will say this: Obama is a fast, fast, learner.

he did really well tonight.

"crash helmet not included"; September 11, 2008 10:48 PM
jean said...: leah,
Palin better be carefull because if she loses her beauty queen status you know McCain will dump her.
jean; September 11, 2008 10:50 PM
Emit R Detsaw said...: Leah/Aunt Jean - I'll be thinking of you two tomorrow and Saturday. The shift is taking most the hurricane away from us over here in San Antonio, but at your expense......

Mike in GA. Where in Florida and which Hurricanes? I had 3 eyes in a year when I lived in Ft Walton Beach. Alberto was only a strong Tropical storm, but dropped tons of rain. Erin was stronger, but Opal was a monster 3+ when she went over us.; September 11, 2008 11:01 PM
suzihussein22 said...: I keep hearing about Palin's foreign policy experience because she resides next to Russia. How did she allow those bombers to be taken to Venezuela. I could go to East TN and see 7 states from Lookout Mtn. Should I take over the Dep. of State?; September 11, 2008 11:17 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Vicki in Seattle -

What do you mean - a fast learner?

Senator Obama has been learning his whole life. He has a law degree and also a degree in Political Science specializing in International Relations, he has practiced as a civil rights attorney, he has taught Constitutional Law at the Chicago University for 10 years, he was a state senator for 8 years in Illinois, and now he is a U.S. Senator. He has been giving speeches (most of which he has written) and he has been on the campaign stump giving rallies and town halls for the past 19 months.

What are you referring to?; September 11, 2008 11:22 PM
Vicki in Seattle said...: bwahahaha

someone at a cnn blog posted something about "barack-uda"

love it! go Obama!; September 11, 2008 11:23 PM
Vicki in Seattle said...: just that, he is continuing to learn at a darn fast rate.

don't get me wrong, I love it!; September 11, 2008 11:32 PM
Mike-in-GA said...: Emit - Orlando had not been hit by a major hurricane in 20 years. I moved there in June 2004 and we ended up with three (Hurricane (s) Charley, Frances and Jeanne). In September 2003 we were in Virginia and got hit with Isabel. First 4 hurricanes of my life all within a 12 month period. Hope I never see another one. You are completely helpless - all you can do is prepare for it or get the hell out of the way. Unfortunately, I wasn't able to get out of the way of any of them.; September 11, 2008 11:37 PM
Mike-in-GA said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; September 11, 2008 11:48 PM
Vicki in Seattle said...: to clarify, Leah: he is answering questions with "yes" or "no" prior to expanding on them.

it's easier to understand.

stay safe, Ike looks like a big ole hurricane.; September 11, 2008 11:53 PM
Mike-in-GA said...: I'm watching TWC and they are reporting that the Houston officials are concerned about how to evacuate up to 6 million people due to potential 90-100 mph winds. I knew Houston was our 4th largest city in the U.S - but didn't imagine it had that many people. It makes you wonder if they ever heard of "birth control".

I expect a reply in a matter of seconds from our two friends in Houston. But it is still fun to tease them - maybe it will take thier minds off of it;).

On a serious note - the good news is that it may only reach Category 2 or low Category 3 - but it still has the largest wind field of any recent storms. I can tell you - that when you are in it you do not know the difference - they all feel like Category 5 hurricanes until they pass by you.; September 11, 2008 11:54 PM
jean said...: mike-in-ga,
I don't think Aunt Jean is there and if she is, she is taking care of her mom and her sister.
Her hands are full one way or another.
Just pray she is OK.
jean; September 12, 2008 12:01 AM
Bob in Vancouver said...: I don't know who said it but "you can fool all of the people some of the time, and some of the people all of the time, but you can't fool all of the people all of the time." And so it is with Palin.

I don't doubt that we have all come accross someone like Palin during our life time. Someone who forces himself/herself along by slash and burn, while the decent thoughtful people stand aside dumbfounded. Yes a politician who gets great popularity ratings by slashing services to those who need them, to the delight of those who don't. A polotician who jumps on a bandwagon whith every change in the wind. Rocketting from PTA to Mayor to Governor, by intimidating government employess, firing opponents, and hypoctritically cutting spending (while charging the public for every poenny they can get themselves).

Finally, the press are beginning t see that this woman could actually get elected to be the next VP, and it's starting to sink in and scare them.; September 12, 2008 12:35 AM
Beryl said...: "to clarify, Leah: he is answering questions with "yes" or "no" prior to expanding on them.

it's easier to understand."

I agree. Obama is very, very intelligent. There is an art to conveying information so that it may be understood by the common folks. This is a skill Barack needs to continue to develop.

Bill Clinton used to answer simply. When asked a yes/no question, he would respond, "Yes (or No) and let me tell you why (or why not)." He probably honed that skill as a Governor and just being a Southerner.

Democrats always elect smart Presidents but Repigs prefer idiots. Stupid Presidents can't make any important decisions without relying on the party power structure.; September 12, 2008 12:35 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Hey everybody

I'm back it's been a long day. I've been driving here and there all day. But still got my house ready. So I think I did good.

I want to thank everyone for the thoughts and prayer for us here in the houston and surrounding areas. It warms my heart to know that you will be thinking of us.

Even though more than lightly I want have no lights and I will miss posting for awhile. Know this I will be thinking of you guys and as soon as everything is up and running GOD willing I will be posting again.

Give Obama a hell yes for me while I'm gone. I will be staying with my brother. Several of my family will be there. AJ; September 12, 2008 12:45 AM
Aunt Jean said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; September 12, 2008 12:51 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Mike in Ga

some dumb rep. backed pharmaceutical [sp?] company sent Texas some happy pills and told them it was birth control pills.

Got ya !!!!!! AJ; September 12, 2008 12:54 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Mike in Ga

I just had to tease back! LOL LOL AJ; September 12, 2008 12:55 AM
Independent Voter said...: Hey all, sorry I've been MIA today.....very busy and watching the forum - which I though both candidates did pretty well (of course Obama did much better than McDouchebag, but still both did alright).

Leah and AJ, both of you take care! You're in my thoughts (beings how I don't pray) and I'm sending positive energy toward you and your families!

I'm headed to bed because I've had a VERY long day. Chat with you tomorrow (EARLY afternoon).; September 12, 2008 1:18 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Hi Dave been real busy myself. Yes I think I will still be here for awhile I will go to my brothers around 3 or 4 . goodnight I'm headed that way too! AJ; September 12, 2008 1:25 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Republicans trying to screw the Democrats........

McCain campaign admits mailing 1 Million bad ballots to voters in Ohio

http://motleymoose.com/showDiary.do;jsessionid=E6257825D166ABFF0DD7EFF64887A930?diaryId=113; September 12, 2008 2:14 AM
Mike-in-GA said...: Leah - I used the additional link that Matt posted and it appears that all of the bad absentee ballot requests went to Republican voters. It looks like 750 incorrect applications have been received so far. The Democratic Secretary of State is the one who has ruled them invalid. Seems like the McCain campaign hurt themselves this time.; September 12, 2008 2:49 AM
tmess2 said...: I hope Ike isn't turning toward Houston. My mom lives just north of there (in theory far enough inland to be safe) and just had a minor surgical procedure. Her doctor has told her that she isn't ready to travel yet.; September 12, 2008 3:05 AM
Karen Anne said...: AJ and tmess2,

Thinking good thoughts...

I find the voting articles confusing. They mailed one million absentee ballot request forms, 750 have been returned filled out incorrectly, and "If a registered Ohio voter’s application is rejected, Brunner said, “We said you have to notify them within 48 hours and we also suggest that (Board of Elections) send them a new application.” That means county Boards of Election must contact tens of thousands of voters and ask them to fill out a new, valid form "

Why tens of thousands if so far only 750 are bad?

Where does it say these only went to Republicans? I mean, it makes sense that they'd send them to Republicans if they wanted to encourage them to vote absentee, but if they intend to mess up getting an absentee ballot, they'd have sent them to Democrats.; September 12, 2008 4:35 AM
Vicki in Seattle said...: probably they've only had 750 returned so for - the GOP probably told them (elections officials) how many they printed/sent out.

just a guess. still waking up.

they prob only sent them to known Republicans, since that's who they want to be voting. shot themselves in the foot there!; September 12, 2008 9:47 AM
Karen Anne said...: So, Biden's tax returns are out, and they are calling for Palin's to see if she paid taxes on the travel payments she got when she was home.; September 12, 2008 11:34 AM
Independent Voter said...: Still sending good thoughts to all of you in Houston and the surrounding area.

------

On another note: Obama has come out with two new ads, one more hard-hitting than the other, but they are both excellent ads which can be seen HERE; September 12, 2008 11:41 AM
Independent Voter said...: Here is another great ad put out by planned parenthood that refutes McCain "Sex Ed" ad.

The only problem that I have is that it may violate FEC regulations of 527's. The reason I say that it may violate regulations is because 527 groups CANNOT advocate for people to vote for a specific candidate and at the end of the ad it reads "Vote Obama".; September 12, 2008 12:02 PM
Beryl said...: Good ad, Dave.

BTW, did you take my advice on Christianity and the Republicans back to your mom?; September 12, 2008 12:56 PM
Emit R Detsaw said...: Ok, I will start off by saying I don't watch The View, but it was on in the waiting room at the Dentist office today, and I'm glad that I saw it.

Barbara Walters grilled McCain real good and kept cutting him off when he wasn't answering the question that was asked. McCain almost lost his cool. LOL; September 12, 2008 1:59 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Indy -

Please educate me.

Isn't a 527 different? I thought a 527 was a group that forms only to basically run ads in the campaign. Whereas established groups like unions, Moveon.org, etc. can run whatever they want to run... I am confused.; September 12, 2008 2:00 PM
jean said...: leah,
This is the best definition I found on 527's.
Basically they can trash a politcal person but not name one to vote for.
http://www.pbs.org/now/politics/527s.html; September 12, 2008 2:28 PM
Karen Anne said...: Eve Ensler, feminist, on why Palin is a disaster -

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/eve-ensler/drill-drill-drill_b_124829.html; September 12, 2008 2:30 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: I just skimmed that link and I don't think Planned Parenthood would fall into the category of a 527.

Planned Parenthood was not formed as a campaign organization. It would not be registered as a 527.

---

Excerpt from that link:

A 527 is basically an organization that is a campaign organization but doesn't call itself a campaign organization. There are many different kinds of 527s. But 527s whose primary purpose is the defeat or victory of a particular candidate [are] now involved in campaign activities. So it's a circumvention of our law.; September 12, 2008 2:34 PM
Mike in Maryland said...: I just read the CNN Political Ticker article on McLame(brain)'s appearance on The View (http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/09/12/mccain-gets-grilled-on-the-view/), and Barbara seems to have tried to really pin him down on a few points!

The article ends with:

McCain was later pressed on the increasingly derisive tone of the campaign, and his new television commercial that carries the widely discredited claim Obama supported comprehensive sex education of kindergarteners as an Illinois state senator.

McCain defended the ad’s claims, as well as those of a Web ad that said Obama’s “Lipstick on a Pig” comments were directed at Palin. He added that if Obama had agreed to a series of townhalls he’d proposed, the tone of the campaign might have been more amicable.

"If we had done what I asked Senator Obama to do, I don't think you'd see the same tenor of this campaign," he said. “Why don't you ask Obama the next time he's on this show why won't he be in town meetings with me?"

"You bring us Sarah Palin and we'll ask Obama," Walters quipped.

As of right now, there are 309 comments, but I'm not going to read them - I know the Repig trolls are all over it and blasting the show.

Mike; September 12, 2008 2:35 PM
jean said...: They also cannot work WITH the candidate for their adds.
They must be independant.
jean; September 12, 2008 2:36 PM
Dilbuck said...: I got a letter in the mail today from the McCain campaign to apply for an absentee ballot. I wonder if these were the same ones Ohioans received?; September 12, 2008 2:37 PM
jean said...: leah, I think you are referring to 501's. There are various types but they also cannot endorse a particular candidate.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/501(c)(4)#501.28c.29.284.29; September 12, 2008 2:41 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Dilbuck-

Be careful!

If I were to get anything from McCain I'd throw it in the trash ;); September 12, 2008 2:43 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Indy-

Well what ever tax code Planned Parenthood falls under I am sure that their lawyers approved the ad that they are running.; September 12, 2008 2:48 PM
jean said...: Palin's husband is being subpoenad(spelling)
The games have perhaps begun.
ABOUT TIME!
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/; September 12, 2008 2:52 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Besides Planned Parenthood
NARAL has released an ad too.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/elizabeth-shipp/john-and-sarahs-world_b_125808.html; September 12, 2008 3:00 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: McCain Top Economic Adviser: He (McCain) Will Raise Taxes

http://www.time-blog.com/swampland/2008/09/the_mccain_tax_increasescontin.html; September 12, 2008 3:02 PM
Independent Voter said...: Leah, the ad put out by planned parenthood isn't by the "Planned Parenthood" organization (technically speaking) - it was put out by "Planned Parenthood Action Fund". Whose goal is to promote pro-choice candidates. Now I'm not sure if they are a 527 group or if they are considered a 501(c)4 organization or not. I didn't have time to research it enough before going to school. I'm going to check it out on the FEC website. I'll let you know what I find.; September 12, 2008 4:05 PM
Independent Voter said...: Hmmmmmmm, PPAF is a 501(c)4 organization, but I'm not finding anything saying that they are able to promote a specific candidate or not. Oh well, I'll ask my campaigns and elections professor (from last semester) about it on Monday.; September 12, 2008 4:18 PM
Mike-in-GA said...: Oreo - Are you a Yooper - I was born and raised there - it is heavily democratic, however, they are having a hard time supporting Senator Obama - they swear they are not racists - so i guess i would use the term bigots.

BTW - how did you get the nickname Oreo? I asked earlier but no one seems to know.; September 12, 2008 4:21 PM
Mike in Maryland said...: Here is an example of CNN NOT reporting the news, but making the news:

On their (so-called) political ticker article about Todd Palin being subpoenaed, one commenter posted:
And of course this is not in the least politically motivated.

In response, I posted:
Since the Alaska state legislature voted to conduct the investigation BEFORE Palin was selected as McCain's running mate on the Republican ticket; and

Since the Alaska state legislature has a majority of Republicans in both the state House and state Senate; and

Since the vote to conduct the investigation was a unanimous vote, with no 'Nays' nor no abstentions; therefore

You be the judge as to whether this investigation is political or not.

My response was sent at 3:32 pm. It is now almost one hour later, and my comment is still 'awaiting moderation'.

Anyone wonder why I do NOT trust CNN any more?

Mike; September 12, 2008 4:28 PM
tmess2 said...: Basically, the 527 refers to a provision of the tax code that governs these organizations.

One of the reasons that they exist is that, since they do not contribute to candidates, they are not consider political action committees and are not subject to regulation by the FEC.

Of course, many of the recent attempts at campaign finance reform have run into trouble at the Supreme Court where those Justices that McCain loves (Thomas, Scalia, Alito, and Roberts) have consistently ruled against the type of reform McCain claims is needed.

It would be nice if there were a way to simply explain to people that McCain's pledge as to who he will place on the Supreme Court means that he will not be able to get the reform of the political system that he claims he wants to bring.; September 12, 2008 4:32 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Mike-in-GA

Oreo doesn't normally read all of the comments on this thread.

There are two options:

1) Post your comment to Oreo on one of the threads on the front page of DCW that Oreo has posted, or

2) There is a DCW email addy toward the top on the right side of the page.

I hope that helps ;); September 12, 2008 4:50 PM
Independent Voter said...: Hey ya'll,

If you can, DIGG THIS; September 12, 2008 4:52 PM
Mike-in-GA said...: Leah - Thanks! Weather started getting bad yet?; September 12, 2008 5:12 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Cindy McCain is showing cleavage again! Photo on front page at the moment...
http://nytimes.com/

---
Regarding the hurricane. It is a little windy here. I am tired of talking about the hurricane, so I'll post again about it in a couple of days when it is over if we have any wind damage. I am over 70 miles from the beach, so I am not going to worry about it and stay focused on other things.; September 12, 2008 5:35 PM
Mike in Maryland said...: Washington Post's Political Ticker:

Palin Denies Denying Human Role in Global Warming

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/09/12/palin_denies_denying_global_wa_1.html

Mike; September 12, 2008 5:59 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Two Top McCain Officials Lobbied For Oil-For-Sex Scandal Companies

Two High-Ranking McCain Campaign Officials Lobbied For Companies At Center of Sex-For-Oil Scandal

http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/09/mccain_cleaning_up_lobbying_hi.php

.; September 12, 2008 6:19 PM
jean said...: leah,
Thank you for your last post.
jean; September 12, 2008 6:45 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Earlier to day a female dem. congresswoman or senator said: "Read my Lipstick...."

Now I just seen this on a blog...

America to Sarah Palin as VP: Thanks, but no thanks.

Hahahaha!; September 12, 2008 7:41 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; September 12, 2008 8:48 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: In Friday “World News” interview with Charlie Gibson, Palin says she thinks Obama regrets not picking Sen. Clinton as his running mate.

“What determination, and grit, and even grace through some tough shots that were fired her way — she handled those well.” (Palin said).

Response from Rep. Wasserman Schultz, a former Clinton supporter and Obama Campaign Statement From Rep. Wasserman Schultz:

“Sarah Palin should spare us the phony sentiment and respect. Governor Palin accused Senator Clinton of whining and John McCain laughed when a questioner referred to her by using a demeaning expletive. John McCain and Sarah Palin represent no meaningful change, just the same failed policies and same divisive, demeaning politics that has devastated the middle class,” said Congresswoman Debbie Wasserman Schultz.

Sen. McCain laughing along to a demeaning expletive… http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WLQGWpRVA7o

Gov. Palin on Hillary Clinton’s ‘perceived whine’…
http://thinkprogress.org/2008/08/29/palin-didn%E2%80%99t-like-hillary-clinton%E2%80%99s-%E2%80%98perceived-whine%E2%80%99/

.; September 12, 2008 8:55 PM
Beryl said...: Rep. Wasserman Schultz, you go girl!!!

This is what we need -- more strong Dem women speaking out against the wannabe, Palin.; September 12, 2008 8:58 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: By the way...

There are THREE women in this 2008 election that are in the VP slot

(VP)Rosa Clemente Green Party (P)Cynthia McKinney

(VP)Sarah Palin Republican Party (P)John McCain

(VP)Alyson Kennedy Socialist Workers Party (P)Róger Calero; September 12, 2008 9:15 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Females currently holding office...

Senators
Democratic: 11
Republican: 5

Governors
Democractic: 5
Republican: 3 (2 if you subtract McPuppet)

I couldn't find a list of female Representatives, but I do believe we, the Democrats, out number the opposition.

I expect to see a quite a few female democrats on the TV during the next six weeks.; September 12, 2008 9:28 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Is It Sexist To Want The Person Flying The Plane To Be A Pilot?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/kathleen-reardon/is-it-sexist-to-want-the_b_126021.html

.; September 12, 2008 9:32 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: McCain state campaign co-chair files suit to begin vote purge in Wisconsin.

http://www.madison.com/tct/news/304606; September 12, 2008 9:51 PM
Independent Voter said...: Leah,

The 110th Congress has 89 women:

Senate Total: 16
Republicans: 5
Democrats: 11

House Total: 73
Republicans: 20
Democrats: 53

That number in the house I believe includes Stephanie Tubbs Jones. If it does then the total in the House is 72 and Democrats would be 52. This number also includes 1 non-voting delegate (I assume this is a "shadow" delegate from DC.)

HERE is where I got the information from.; September 12, 2008 10:01 PM
apissedant said...: It is really quite simple people:

1) It is only an off limits personal issue if you're a Republican, and it reflects negatively on that Republican. If it reflects positively on that candidate, then it is not personal and should be part of their campaign. If it ever becomes negative, then it is personal again. (It is irrelevant if they have advocated making these "personal" issues part of public policy.) Example: Bristol and family values

2) It is only sexist when you ask a female a question she cannot answer or deride her opinions or decisions if she is a Republican. Also, if she is a Republican, it is ALWAYS sexist if whatever you are saying or implying is not positive for her. Example: lipstick on a pig

3) It is racist to oppose a black Republican or say anything negative about them regardless of what they have done or what their policies are. Example: Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas

4) A Republican is always a patriot, regardless of what their policies are or what they have done. Example: George W. Bush

5) Democrats must be considered unPatriotic and must prove their patriotism. One piece of evidence automatically revokes all positive actions, regardless of how many times they are correct or fought for our nation. Example: Barack Obama and John Kerry

6) All personal matters that are negative will flood the rest of the nation if you are a Democrat, and thus are allowed to be attacked by your opponent, even if the allegations are not proven and there is serious evidence that they are false. Example: The Clintons

7) If something negative happens during a Republican administration and with a Republican controlled Congress, it is the fault of the previous (Democratic) administration, regardless of how long ago that was. Example: 9/11,

8) If something negative happens with a Republican President and a Democratic controlled Congress, the fault lies with Congress. Example: current recession

9) If something negative happens with a Republican held Congress and a Democrat is President, it is the fault of the President. Example: NAFTA, tax hikes

There are dozens more, including calling a Republican out on an obvious lie makes you part of the liberal media, regardless of your party affiliation and who you vote for. Also any Judge that ever votes against a Republican initiative is automatically a liberal judge legislating from the bench regardless of who appoint him/her and his/her voting record.; September 12, 2008 10:33 PM
apissedant said...: Oh, intellectual curiosity is something only elitists can have. Having it automatically makes you an elitist, and not having it automatically makes you a regular guy. Where you were born, how much money you have, and how you earned your money is completely irrelevant. It doesn't even matter how you treat people. Regular guys should be elected because they understand us, because they also have no intellectual curiosity. Their inability to make intelligent, reasoned decisions is PROOF of their regular Joeness, and should be applauded. They would make the best leaders since they make bad decisions just like us, and therefore these decisions will be in our best interest.; September 12, 2008 10:39 PM
Independent Voter said...: p'd ant - that would absolutely hilarious, if it weren't so true that that is the way the Republicans "think".; September 12, 2008 10:45 PM
Beryl said...: Apis, you are right of course.

A comment was made today in the MSM that the Dems have not lied in this race where the Repubs constantly do so. If the Dems had lied, the Repubs would have quickly called them on it. It is time for the Democrats to emphatically cry in the way Obama did during his acceptance speech, "ENOUGH!"

Congress was deceived into believing that Iraq was associated with those who harmed us on 9/11/2001. We now know the truth but the cost of the deception was over one million lives all to bring one bad man to justice.

In this race we are faced with similar lies and deceit authored by the same people. Nonpartisan fact checkers have called out many of the lies but the lies have not stopped. After each lie has been refuted, new lies surface thereby confusing the electorate. Just as congress was deceived 6 years ago, US citizens are being deceived about the Democratic Presidential Ticket.

It is time for Obama or a respected surrogate to give us a speech on integrity to put this in perspective. It should be like the one Obama did on race -- insightful and educational.; September 12, 2008 11:10 PM
Bob in Vancouver said...: Beryl:

I re3ally like the way you think.

You are absolutely correct. It was a neocon Republican administration who's lies (knowingly fabrated, like Colin Powel's anthrax flask shown at the UN) that was designed to fool an entire nation into supporting a totally unnecessary war.

It's a Repulsive Campaign team who's lies and fabrications are bein perpetrated on an entire Nation (waged entirely in the MSM) fool the electorate into supporting a replacement neocon Republican ticket.

Obama should ask McCain if he is planning on finding jobs for all of his campaign staff if he is elected or is he going to clean house and reform the Republican party?; September 12, 2008 11:50 PM
jean said...: Ap,
Sometimes you just scare me;)
jean; September 12, 2008 11:57 PM
jean said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; September 13, 2008 12:27 AM
apissedant said...: To all,

Yes, I truly believe what I stated before is how our current nation and current political system works.

The worst part is that the intellectual curiosity part has now been almost universally accepted by the people of our nation. It literally infuriates me.

For this, I shall reference John McCain's appearance on "The View." He talked about upholding the original intent of the Constitution. No one, NO ONE, NO ONE questioned that what he advocates IS what our founding fathers intended. Not even Keith. The only question raised was whether they intended other things (slavery).
It has been nearly universally accepted that the drafters of the Constitution wanted guns for all. THIS GOES AGAINST ALL HISTORICAL KNOWLEDGE OF OUR FOUNDING FATHERS AND THEIR LEGISLATIVE AND JUDICIAL RECORDS

Why has it been accepted? Because it has been repeated so many times, and almost no one in this nation has read enough to understand the climate and realities of 18th century America. This doesn't mean all guns should be banned, or that the government even has the right to ban all guns. It just means our founding fathers had no opinion on self protection, and therefore neither did the Constitution they wrote. There is RIDICULOUS amounts of evidence for this, but finding it would require reading 230 year old documents (copies of which are available in every library), so it is more expedient and easier to go on a gut feeling.

It also does nothing to confront the reality that our founders intended the Constitution as a LIVING document. It was meant to be constantly reinterpreted by each generation. This means, within limits, the Constitution means what we want it to mean. There is a good deal of evidence to support this claim as well. It also requires reading old books that aren't "fun."
Thomas Paine's "The Rights of Man" and "Common Sense" rail against legislating from the grave. He found nothing as deplorable as the idea of one generation that they would set in stone the rules for all future generations. He did this to oppose a king, but the argument works for all forms of government. His argument was that those who were alive when the King was selected effectively voted for him, and therefore it was a technically a representative government, and they were all now required to follow the rules of this king. HOWEVER, they did not have the right to sign over power to the king for future generations, because each future generation would have to decide its leaders and its laws for itself.

Now Thomas Paine may not have been part of our government, but his works was the most widely read books of the Revolutionary era. He inspired many of those who later became the government of our nation. Many based their opinions and their politics on his books. He most definitely held the voice of the Republican Party(now the Democratic Party).

There are more examples of this opinion too, but sadly I am not as well read as I would like to be either, so I would be in danger of terribly misquoting or representing someone if I went further on this subject.

In any case, historically, this is a completely valid argument, but even those hear are probably tired of reading this and think I type too much, so how could regular voter Joe possibly listen or care to hear the whole argument? It most definitely wouldn't fit into a 30 second sound byte, and I'll admit as quickly as the next guy that it isn't sexy and entertaining like those attack ads.

So we (as a nation) continue, blissfully ignorant. We make poor decisions based on "gut feelings," and blame others when our decisions get us in trouble. We scape goat and complain, constantly repeating the same mistakes our predecessors had made.

The question is: what can we do about it? How can we make the thirst for knowledge our forefathers had "cool" again? How can we effectively slow down society and stop thinking that faster is better and all information should be obtained in less than 5 minutes?

I wish I knew. =/; September 13, 2008 1:46 AM
Bob in Vancouver said...: From a very distant observer:

I wouldn't listen to Karl Rove at all.

The impression I get, and I am quite removed from the hoopla, is that McCain now has such bad press that he is essentailly toast. That's why he has embarked on the negative campaign.

He had no choice but to abamdon the high road. His crowds have returned to small turnouts without Palin around.

I think I was right. The Democrats, but certainly not Obama, have to go after Palin, and that shouldn't be too difficult. Even though she's no.2 on the ticket, she is now the centre of the McCain campaign. The Democrats have to go after her credibility.

I love the new 527 ads. Especially the one on wolf hunting and sex education. They really tell it like it is.

From what I can tell, Palin has started to aquire the beauty queen Bimbo lable. Hence the need to keep her sequestered, and on a short leash. Also why we are now seeing damage control and the Republican campaign restating what she meant to say. The more she is out there the better it is for the Democrats.

My feeling is that McCain's campaing may have peaked. Even with the convention, and Palins popularity, they haven't really pulled away in the polls. I think we should start to see a leveling off and possibly a decline in McCain's numbers.; September 13, 2008 1:46 AM
Bob in Vancouver said...: I winder if Palin has anymore Lincoln quotes, or was the quote she used in her interview to clean up her assertion that the War in Iraq was God's Will, the only quote her handlers taught her.

I wonder just how many quotes she can actually come up with and how widely read she is on American History. Wasn't she the one who implied that the Pledge of Alegiance was authored by the Fore Farthers, and if is was good enought for them, it was good enough for her.; September 13, 2008 1:55 AM
tmess2 said...: It appears that Congress is about to pass a bill with bipartisan support (including probably Obama and Biden) that will include additional support for alternative forms of energy and additional off-shore drilling.

If drill here/drill now is taken off the table, what will the new Republican mantra be?; September 13, 2008 2:20 AM
Karen Anne said...: So I looked up the pledge of allegiance, and wiki says it was authored by a "Christian Socialist." Ha, ha, ha.; September 13, 2008 2:27 AM
Mike in Maryland said...: Karen Anne:

Not only was Francis Bellamy (author of the original Pledge of Allegiance) a Christian Socialist, but he was also a Baptist minister (but not a Southern Baptist).

Mike; September 13, 2008 2:45 AM
Vicki in Seattle said...: well, I'm going to volunteer today at a voter registration drive.

allegedly, Howard Dean will be there! I may have to take my swoonin' fan.

;-) vbg!; September 13, 2008 9:47 AM
Karen Anne said...: Swoon for me, Vicki :-)

The local (RI) paper reports Sen. Whitehouse and a group of Democrats are headed to NH to campaign for Obama. You go, guys!; September 13, 2008 9:54 AM
Beryl said...: Vicki,
Swoon for me too. Dean was my first "Obama" in that he was the first politician who motivated me to open my purse and actively support politics outside of just voting.

Bob,
I hope you are right and the Repug support has peaked. Otherwise, we are in for more decline in this country: more lies, more wars, more greed, and a shrinking middle class.

As an independent for 16 years, I honestly felt both parties were evil. Now I know that the GOP has a monopoly on evil. They have a war profiteering and Big Oil agenda and will do anything, no matter how vile, to achieve their goal. They cloak themselves in patriotism and faith thereby deceiving many.

I understand how Republicans and Democrats were fooled by Bush/Cheney to start the Iraq war (although I wasn't). However, it has been proven that decisions were made based on a fabricated lie. You'd think the RNC would change their rhetoric but instead they view the war as honorable. This gives them license to continue down the path of destruction.

The RNC is equivalent to the Nazis as they spread their disease. I really hope we can reclaim our country before it is too late. Otherwise, I might move my assets up your way and retire. I'm weary of fighting a losing battle.; September 13, 2008 11:58 AM
Karen Anne said...: I assume Judy Dean is still staying in Vermont because of her medical practice? So she and Howard must be apart a lot.

Those are the people who are really sacrificing for their country. And they're doing it quietly, they aren't making political capital of it.

Another example of the Hypocrisy party - Palin is "one of us," but Judy Dean, who works hard as a doctor and wears sensible clothes for New England winters is a "dowd."; September 13, 2008 1:02 PM
Beryl said...: Rx for Election Anxiety Disorder
New Chemical Compounds to Help Get You to, and Through, Election Day
http://thestranger.com/seattle/Content?oid=671760&hp; September 13, 2008 1:21 PM
apissedant said...: beryl
Great link. I love the disclaimer at the bottle.; September 13, 2008 1:53 PM
Independent Voter said...: Beryl,

OMG! That was hilarious! I think we are ALL suffering from every single one of those symptoms!; September 13, 2008 2:54 PM
Karen Anne said...: Palin camp clarifies extent of Iraq trip
Says she never ventured beyond Kuwait border

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2008/09/13/palin_camp_clarifies_extent_of_iraq_trip/

Sarah Palin's visit to Iraq in 2007 consisted of a brief stop at a border crossing between Iraq and Kuwait, the vice presidential candidate's campaign said yesterday, in the second official revision of her only trip outside North America.

Following her selection last month as John McCain's running mate, aides said Palin had traveled to Ireland, Germany, Kuwait, and Iraq to meet with members of the Alaska National Guard. During that trip she was said to have visited a "military outpost" inside Iraq. The campaign has since repeated that Palin's foreign travel included an excursion into the Iraq battle zone.

But in response to queries about the details of her trip, campaign aides and National Guard officials in Alaska said by telephone yesterday that she did not venture beyond the Kuwait-Iraq border when she visited Khabari Alawazem Crossing, also known as "K-Crossing," on July 25, 2007.; September 13, 2008 3:16 PM
Independent Voter said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; September 13, 2008 3:25 PM
Independent Voter said...: KA, I just saw that too! When are the LIES going to stop coming from that woman and better yet THAT campaign in general?; September 13, 2008 3:26 PM
Independent Voter said...: I truly hope everyone in Houston, and the surrounding area is ok!

I know it will probably be a while before they get the power back up and running, but WOW! What a nasty one this was.; September 13, 2008 3:27 PM
Mike in Maryland said...: In 2003, when Isabelle came through the East Coast, it was 'only' a tropical storm by the time it hit the DC-Baltimore area. Even so, almost 75% of the area had power outages, and some people didn't get power back for almost 3 weeks. In parts of Fairfax County in Virginia, power went out at one of the water pumping stations, allowing a back flow of dirty water into the water supply. It was about a week before the 'boil water' warning was lifted.

Personally, I had a couple of times when the electricity flickered just enough to turn off some (but not all) electronic devices. In the neighborhood, we had one large tree fall into the street with leaves brushing a parked car. Lots of rain, but little other damage.

I'm sure most of east Texas is not as fortunate with Ike as I was
with Isabelle.

Mike; September 13, 2008 5:40 PM
apissedant said...: Mike,
I lost power for about 10 days, and worse yet, I lost cable for a month!!!

I did get the opportunity to have a sweet barbecue and raft down the road, so it wasn't all bad. ;); September 13, 2008 5:45 PM
Mike in Maryland said...: More lies from the McLame(brain) camp (although somewhat minor):

From CNN (http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/13/palin.iraq/?iref=hpmostpop):
The Obama campaign . . . was quick to highlight . . . a news report that explored whether the McCain campaign has been sending out wildly inflated crowd estimates.

The McCain team has twice pointed to law enforcement as the source for those estimates -- but the same officials denied to Bloomberg News that they had provided the numbers cited by the Republican nominee's campaign.

I guess when you can initially get away with lies about the Bridge to Nowhere, foreign travel experience, 'lipstick on a pig' comments, fighting earmarks, experience, etc., etc., you might think that a minor lie like crowd estimates will slip below the radar.

It looks like the press is starting to get P.O. about being used by the McLame(brain) campaign, and is now starting to look at the campaigns in a different light. I suspect that we will begin to see the press push a bit harder to get facts, not political spin, out to the public.

Mike; September 13, 2008 8:00 PM
Vicki in Seattle said...: I have found the cure for the statistician blues:

go out. volunteer. register new voters (if the time limit hasn't passed where you live). talk to people. knock on doors. host a calling party. do what needs doing. you know where to go to volunteer.

right now I'm footsore and weary, and I knocked on a pile of doors, registered some voters, talked to a bunch of people, urged people to vote, and collected info for the Obama Campaign.

go. do it. find what events are going on in your neighborhood tomorrow. if not now, when? if not us, who?; September 13, 2008 8:19 PM
Vicki in Seattle said...: oh. and I actually TOUCHED Howard Dean today.

(giddy giggle)

or course, in the most strictly platonic sense of the phrase. as in, on the shoulder as he walked past me.; September 13, 2008 8:21 PM
Independent Voter said...: Mike, I just read about the same thing. The Obama camp response was AWESOME!

"The McCain campaign said Governor Palin opposed the Bridge to Nowhere, but now we know she supported it. They said she didn't seek earmarks, but now we know she hired a lobbyist to get millions in pork for her town and her state. They said she visited Iraq, but today we learned that she only stopped at the border. Americans are starting to wonder, is there anything the McCain campaign isn't lying about?" Obama campaign spokesman Tommy Vietor asked in a statement e-mailed to reporters.; September 13, 2008 8:26 PM
Vicki in Seattle said...: OK. I need someone to explain this. let me clarify. I NEED SOMEONE TO EXPLAIN THIS.

over at Realclearpolitics, I look a the polls. probably too much for my own darn good, but I do.

I swear this morning that there were two polls that showed Obama at +1, and two tied. now there are two tied, and only ONE at Obama +1.

W.T.F????? please explain. thanks.; September 13, 2008 8:29 PM
Karen Anne said...: I guess that means you can never wash that hand again, Vicki :-); September 13, 2008 8:30 PM
Karen Anne said...: Vicki, As long as we've returned to high school :-) did you ever see the baby crushie picture of Dean? If not, I'll put it up on the web.; September 13, 2008 8:33 PM
Vicki in Seattle said...: hee! we are gonna watch Bill Maher now (recorded from last night). I got salmon to grill, but beyond wine, I have no idea what dinner is about. It may be salmon and toast. and red wine.

later. I'm taaaaaaared.; September 13, 2008 8:36 PM
Independent Voter said...: VICKI! Bill Maher was really good! I love Jenine Garafelo (honestly I have NO CLUE how to spell her name, but she is awesome!); September 13, 2008 8:41 PM
Mike-in-GA said...: Thought you all might like to take a look at a exceptional article that dispels the lies that McCain/Palin have been spouting off about. It particularly talks to the lying ads. Here is the link: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/13/us/politics/13mccain.html?_r=1&ref=politics&oref=slogin; September 13, 2008 9:30 PM
Vicki in Seattle said...: I thought Jeanine Garafalo was very restrained to not just LAUNCH herself at whatsisname. he was the usualy overblow a-hole --- just interested in talking all over everyone else's point.

I would have been tempted to beat the crap outta him.; September 13, 2008 9:44 PM
Independent Voter said...: It looks like WOMEN do NOT like Palin in Alaska.

I have the feeling that many of them would vote for her to get rid of her.; September 13, 2008 9:50 PM
Independent Voter said...: Mike in GA, I read that earlier and forgot to post it. I'm glad you did. It truly was a GREAT article.; September 13, 2008 9:51 PM
Independent Voter said...: Vicki, she was VERY restrained. Normally she comes out swiping at the "conservative". But you know what? Rosanne Barr, confuses the living you-know-what out of me.

On the show last night, she lambasted McCain/Palin, and somewhat promoted Obama. But on her blog she rails against Obama and supports McKinney. She has really got me totally confused as to who the hell she is truly supporting in this race. To me she shouldn't be promoting McKinney if she wants to keep McCain/Palin out of office.; September 13, 2008 9:55 PM
Independent Voter said...: Vicki, sorry. Back in July and August Rosanne was railing against Obama and supporting McKinney, but now she IS supporting Obama.

I guess it has been a while since she had spoken out against Obama. She is backing Obama 100% now, even though she still keeps McKinney's information on her blog.; September 13, 2008 10:11 PM
Minnesota For Obama said...: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/14/us/politics/14palin.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin; September 13, 2008 10:18 PM
UUbuntu said...: I rarely watch TV, but I turned it on tonight and CNN seems to have run this "introduction" pieces on Sarah Palin and Joe Biden. These pieces are about an hour each.

I'm midway through the Biden piece now (the Palin piece was first) and it's pretty balanced, at least in an MSM style. The Palin piece gives me a nice introduction to her as well at the main controversies around her candidacy. So far the Biden piece is a bit better, simply because (1) he spoke to CNN on camera, and (2) there's more story to tell. It's also nice, since Biden has been the lost name in this electoral process. For the past two weeks, this election almost feels like "McCain-Palin vs. Obama-somebody"; September 13, 2008 10:23 PM
UUbuntu said...: A new NYT article: Once Elected, Palin Hired Friends and Lashed Foes; September 13, 2008 10:27 PM
Beryl said...: I'd support a candidate that couldn't win if I honestly felt that the major party candidates were equally bad for America. This has not been the case for at least 16 years. The Republicans have been markedly worse.; September 13, 2008 10:29 PM
Independent Voter said...: Beryl, I agree with that statement whole-heartedly. I have voted third party on a few occasions.; September 13, 2008 10:42 PM
UUbuntu said...: One of the positives about living in a non-swing state (Massachusetts) is the freedom to vote for the person with the full knowledge that your vote won't determine the outcome.

Being a liberal-centrist, this means I usually vote for the Democrat, since I (for the most part) believe that their basic message of competent, centrist and compassionate government best matches my own view of what government should be.

But in 1996, after Bill Clinton signed the Welfare Reform law, I could not in good conscience vote for him. So I voted for the Workers World Party candidate, Monica Moorhead.

And in 2002, after John Kerry voted for Iraq War funding, I could not vote for his Senate reelection, so I wrote in Randall Forsberg (along with some 30000 other people). Obviously, I voted for Kerry (and worked for him) in 2004.

I try to view candidates as flawed human beings, whose job it is to represent my views as well as the views of as wide a variety of their constituents as possible. When a candidate fails to do this, as Clinton did in 1995 and Kerry did in 2001, I will choose to vote for someone else.

Of course, it goes without saying that Republicans -- who rarely share the same philosophy toward governance as I do -- ever make the cut to receive my vote.

So Beryl, I wholeheartedly endorse your support of the third party candidate when a major party candidate disappoints.; September 13, 2008 10:53 PM
Bob in Vancouver said...: Distant Observer:

I watch CNN most of the time and of course compare it to other international news services.

I notice that CNN is not a leader. They seem to follow the trend rather than setting the trend. If the other networks start to report McCain/Palin's discrepancies and lies, CNN figures they had better get on to the story too. There always seems to be a lag.

CNN also attempts to offer the public what they feel is a balanced report. For example they will always have surogates from both sides discuss an issue. But when comes to issues like lies, CNN's approach doesn't work. Their balancing act doesn't accurately report the news, in fact it distorts the news.

Obviously they are vying for the advertising dollars from the two campaigns and attempting to hold on to the viewship from both parties. CNN's approach is stricktly entertainment.

Then we get programs such as Lou Dobbs and Glen Beck. Dobbs claims to be an independant and Beck clains to be a Conservative but not a Republican. Bull shit. Both Dobbs and Beck are "wolves in sheeps clothing"; both are clearly right wingers and supporters of the Republican party.; September 13, 2008 10:53 PM
Bob in Vancouver said...: I thought that the US was a democracy and prided itself on the democratic process. Isn't lying, distorting your opponents true possition, and smears undemocratic and unamerican?

It's a good thing for Palin that the Tem Commandments doesn't include telling lies. It just says Thou shalt not bear false witness, against......

However, I see she did just that while Governor of Alaska.; September 13, 2008 11:05 PM
UUbuntu said...: Bob -- Your description of CNN probably applies to all television news channels (except FOX, but they're pretty straight Republican propaganda, and aren't even shy about it).

In fact, any MSM station that attempts to analyze stories from a liberal/factual perspective seems to get yanked around by parent companies.

As far as I can tell, the only place to find "truthiness" on television is on Comedy Central.

It's not just CNN. It's also MSNBC, NBC, ABC, CBS and even PBS.; September 13, 2008 11:05 PM
UUbuntu said...: For those of us without HBO, here's last night's New Rules from Bill Maher, hosted on a blog I (generally, but not always) like.; September 13, 2008 11:16 PM
suzihussein22 said...: I was reading on an ABC blog that 2 GOP chairmen, one from a county in Ohio and one from a county in Michigan, are trying to throw out voter reg. if they have been foreclosed, which doesn't mean they've had to move yet. It also doesn't mean they've lived somewhere else long enough to transfer their reg.; September 13, 2008 11:19 PM
Independent Voter said...: Bob, I wouldn't be too quick to call Dobbs a "Republican". He is much more of a psychopathic Libertarian more than anything. He is extremely Xenophobic, but most other issues he's fairly liberal. He doesn't support NAFTA or other "free trade agreements", but his Xenophobia is his biggest downfall for me. Believe it or not, he hasn't always been the A-hole he has been this election cycle. Dobbs turned on Obama when Obama called him out on his anti-immigrant stance. I have many times heard him read people's e-mail on the air saying that they are now a "Dobbs Independent". Well I too am an Independent, but I am FAR from a "Dobbs Independent".

But your statement about Dobbs, did remind me of the Dobbs-O-Meter that Jon Stewart introduced to the country. The video clip can be found HERE; September 14, 2008 12:04 AM
Independent Voter said...: Suzi, I read about that somewhere as well. Unfortunately voter purges take place everywhere. However the problem that I have is that most of those voter purges take place in "minority" dominated districts.; September 14, 2008 12:17 AM
Independent Voter said...: Group With Swift Boat Alumni Readies Ads Attacking Obama; September 14, 2008 12:55 AM
Independent Voter said...: RUT ROW! McDouchebag is PISSING OFF the ARMY Times.... Again!; September 14, 2008 1:00 AM
Mike in Maryland said...: A quote from an Erie Times-News article (http://www.goerie.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080914/NEWS02/809140392), titled "Will black votes be enough for Obama?" made me laugh:

"Rozenne Adams, 85, a retired beautician and part of the black demographic expected to vote heavily for Obama, echoed the theme of Obama's campaign by calling for change in Washington.

But Adams, a Democrat, is skeptical because she said Washington seems to change even the change agents.

But she offered a unique perspective: "At least they'd be new lies, fresh lies."

VBG

Mike; September 14, 2008 1:05 AM
suzihussein22 said...: I hear wig companies are getting an increase in orders from people wanting to look like Palin. So her version of change is a new hairstyle? Thanks, but no thanks.

McCain/Palin Drill Baby Drill

iv dave-Yes, I've been hearing that too, but this is a new low among many from the low road express.; September 14, 2008 1:16 AM
suzihussein22 said...: m in md-I wasn't ignoring your story you mentioned this week, but to make a long story short, it hits too close to home, about appendicitis and the complications.

aunt jean and leah-I hope you're doing okay.; September 14, 2008 1:19 AM
Kujo said...: I think Obama camp should open up to YouTube specialist for the best 5 commercials of the week and use them for his campain. I think they do better then his camp does. This will have a lot of variety and keep people interested. News programs will be talking about it instead of the garbage they talk about now.; September 14, 2008 1:22 AM
suzihussein22 said...: Lipstick on a pig-

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26673377/displaymode/1107/s/2/framenumber/5/; September 14, 2008 1:23 AM
Independent Voter said...: suzi, just remember, this is the Repuke Party we are talking about. Their cynicism is a bottomless pit, and they KNOW they can't win if they play by the rules so they LIE, CHEAT and STEAL wherever and whenever they THINK (like that's possible) they can get away with it. Indeed they DID get away with it in 2000 AND 2004.

I just read a VERY disturbing article, talking about the make-up of the Supreme Court. I already knew that it was definitely turning conservative (doesn't take rocket science to figure it out), but I had completely forgotten about the ruling last year regarding the so-called "partial birth abortion" issue. They upheld the ban without ANY exceptions (including the life of the mother being threatened.)

HERE is the article.; September 14, 2008 1:24 AM
Kujo said...: sorry for a change of subject for a second. I loved statement Bitzer made this weekend on the Repetition Room about IKE.

As we know FIMA (or who ever) made the anouncement that if you stay in Galveston you will face certain death.

Wolfs versions: If you stay in Galveston you will probably face certain death.

If that isn't a definate maybe if I ever heard. This man is so weak that he couldn't even get it right when they stick the words right into his mouth. How can he report on the political elections.; September 14, 2008 1:26 AM
Independent Voter said...: Kujo, first....I do like your "youtube" idea. Perhaps you should e-mail that suggestion to the campaign and have them make a contest out of it. Those who come up with the best ads will get to have a meeting with Obama (perhaps dinner) or something?

To address the "warning" in Galveston, personally I think that Wolf's phrasing was actually better. The other guy made it sound that if they stayed they would definitely be dead. And when you are talking about weather like that, there are no absolutes. Of course there would be a lot of damage, bu to say that they will face a certain death - as though it was an absolute, is well, how do I say this, asinine?; September 14, 2008 1:35 AM
suzihussein22 said...: iv dave-I've also read how McCain is hoping to overturn Roe v. Wade if he gets a chance to appoint ultra-conservative Justices. It hasn't been that long since I read that the majority of Americans believe there is a legal necessity of varying degrees, even if it's only for medical reasons, rape, or incest.; September 14, 2008 1:42 AM
Kujo said...: Indy,

Is there a web address we can actually send to, please help me here, after donating 4600 to his campain, I would love to be able to add one bit of advice.

As to Wolf. Its the way it was said: possibly .. definately

And while I agree that with your comments, I do have to say that from a viewer (at 3:00 am in the morning) I was frustrated listening to the people calling for help who did not leave, making rescuer's risk there lives. While it is unlikely that everyone would of faced certain death, enough people would of to create this type of warning.

I was listening last night when they said the first casualty was in when 2 19 year olds were playing on a ledge when a wave dragged one of them in. Not to belittle the death of this young man, but I would not want to blame IKE for this; September 14, 2008 1:54 AM
Independent Voter said...: Suzi, I hear ya, McDouchebag even said on the View that he believed that Roe was a bad decision.

But I'm going to talk about the "elephant" (McDouchebag) in the room, he's OLD! The males in his family have the tendency to DIE in their late 60's early 70's. Well he is 72. What scares the living crap out of me is that he could DIE on day 1 as opposed to being "ready on day 1". And then we would be stuck with Mrs. McDouchebag (Palin) running the country. If we thought McDouchebag's appointees would be bad, I DREAD what the SCOTUS would look like if SHE was making the appointments.; September 14, 2008 1:54 AM
Independent Voter said...: Kujo, here's the link:
http://my.barackobama.com/page/s/contact2

-------

Oh I guess I read your comments wrong. But you are right, the kid that was drug out to sea was definitely NOT the storms fault.

What I think the officials need to start saying when calling for evacuations, is that there will be NO rescue efforts for at least a week after the storm (in cases like IKE). This would make these people think two or three times more before making bad judgment calls.; September 14, 2008 2:00 AM
Independent Voter said...: Good night everyone. See you tomorrow. I hope they are able to get the power up and running soon so that Aunt Jean and Leah can come back. I hope they are doing ok.; September 14, 2008 2:01 AM
Karen Anne said...: I can understand not leaving. I've been following a blog of a Katrina survivor family, and they evacuated before Gustav.

It was pretty much a nightmare on the road, crawling traffic, their five young kids, the dog, and her elderly mom packed in with them in two cars. She posted that they spent about five of the driving hours going 15 mph in bumper to bumper traffic, total trip time ten hours. Then got stuck in a torrent in very high winds. She said they're never going to evacuate again.

And this from people who were in their house when Katrina flooded the entire first floor (there had been no evacuation warning for their area since they were well inland.)

Plus a bunch of people died during the Gustav evacuation, people who couldn't stand the stress on the road or were overcome by heat.

In my area in New England, there has been no provision for pets. They aren't allowed in the people shelters. Recently they made provisions for a pet shelter thirty miles away. We're supposed to drop our pets off there and hope we see them again. I think not.

The possibility of the pets getting lost, accidentally let out of cages, stressing beyond belief if they are timid or elderly or chronically ill, not happening on my watch.

So unless the warnings are of the form, you will surely die, in which case I'd just pack up my cat and drive west, I stay in place and sweat, with a tide table in one hand.

What I need is to be wealthy enough to have a second house inland :-); September 14, 2008 4:08 AM
Vicki in Seattle said...: Karen Ann - you bring up some good points about why people don't evacuate. plus, the risk of thieves after the disaster but before you come home.

our disasters are literally more earth-shaking; we have some limited disaster preps here in our household. Not sure what I'd do if we had to evacuate myself. We have one elderly cat that wouldn't leave behind, though.; September 14, 2008 9:38 AM
Vicki in Seattle said...: btw, I'm tired and sore this morning! it was only four streets (2 blocks long each). but my calves feel like I was hiking all day yesterday. plus I'm dehydrated and I think a spot on my neck saw some sun yesterday.

but heck, still grinning: it was a great day, and I do believe I made a difference yesterday!; September 14, 2008 9:40 AM
Vicki in Seattle said...: just watched the local affiliates interview with Howard Dean (my new hero!) and they asked about the Newsweek poll showing 47-47. He pointed out the obvious: hey, McCain was up by even more, and now it's even up again.

have faith ... this thing is gonna bounce back our way again. Heck, it already is!

still, there is a LOT of work to do, and if you have a spare afternoon, go find somewhere to volunteer. it's fun! it's easy! heck, I'm just an ordinary woman, and I did it.; September 14, 2008 9:57 AM
suzihussein22 said...: I'm going to try to get this observation out there, along with the observation that Jesus was a community organizer-

What would women be saying right now if it hadn't been for the community organizers Elizabeth Cody Stanton and Susan B. Anthony? How have they affected our rights, our daughters' rights, and would they have affected our daughters' daughters' rights?; September 14, 2008 10:40 AM
Vicki in Seattle said...: just putting this out there: I would like to see ALL of the major candidates (POTUS and VP), on a sunday news talk show, EVERY WEEK.

MTP, Crossfire, whatever.

but ALL of them.; September 14, 2008 11:04 AM
suzihussein22 said...: vicki-But wouldn't that mess up McCain's carefully set up resting schedule?

iv dave-It's not necessarily age that causes death, but the state of health. Is McCain healthy? NO!; September 14, 2008 11:22 AM
Independent Voter said...: Some VERY good points KA. I do agree with you to a certain extent, but after Katrina, I think that people should also be told NOT to count on rescue teams for at least a week if they fail to heed the warnings. Knowing Bill, myself and our two cats, we probably wouldn't evacuate either, but at the same time wouldn't expect rescuing from the government (of course we are up on a hill, etc. We too would probably crack open a few beers and sit and watch - we love watching storms.

He is still really pissed that he hasn't felt any of the minor shakers we've had since we moved here (2000) - He didn't even feel the one we had about a month ago because he was driving - LOL! And the other ones he was out of town.

-----

Suzi, I agree that it isn't necessarily age, but family history MUST be taken into account, in conjunction with his other health problems such as his recurring melanoma and his mental instability.; September 14, 2008 12:11 PM
suzihussein22 said...: snl skit-ROFLMAO! Loved it! :D Media, where's your testicular fortitude?; September 14, 2008 12:33 PM
suzihussein22 said...: iv dave-I just wanted to clarify, because his age shouldn't be brought up as an issue as compared to the real issues of this country.

You're making it sound like Bill has a secret identity, not being around when things get shook up. ;); September 14, 2008 12:39 PM
Independent Voter said...: Suzi, LOL! He does travel quite a bit for work. I just think its funny that every time we've had a tremor or earthquake he hasn't felt them. I also think that I am more in tune (sensitivity that is). I can hear the high pitch whine that televisions give off and he can't. I feel the bed shake anytime it moves (like when the cats jump up on it - it startles the hell out of me), he could sleep through anything.

And I'm not saying that JM's age should be the central focus, but at his age, with his health conditions, with his family history, and Palin being a heartbeat away from the presidency, YES we ALL have reason to be concerned. Especially when Palin doesn't know what the Bush Doctrine was. Someone who has continually lied about their records (McCain & Palin both lying through their teeth - or in McCain's case - his caps), the list goes on, but I'll stop with that since we all know what these issues are.; September 14, 2008 12:55 PM
Independent Voter said...: Ok, I just heard that McCain doesn't know how to send e-mail because he physically cannot send an e-mail (of course it came from Rove). He said there is a reason McCain can't do jumping jacks (because he can't raise his hands over his head). Ok, I get the jumping jacks thing, but when was the last time ANYONE had to raise their hands over their head to type an e-mail? Keyboards are portable, hell computers are portable, but I'm not sure that McCain even knows that they have these things nowadays called, um, what are they called again? Oh I know, LAPTOPS! I'm sure that Cindy could afford to purchase a laptop for him.; September 14, 2008 1:16 PM
Independent Voter said...: OBAMA/BIDEN 2008
OBAMA/BIDEN 2008
OBAMA/BIDEN 2008
OBAMA/BIDEN 2008; September 14, 2008 1:16 PM
Vicki in Seattle said...: it's been a while since we've had a tremblor, too.

(crossing my fingers); September 14, 2008 1:18 PM
Independent Voter said...: WOW! It sure does look like WOMEN in Alaska do NOT like Sarah being the VP pick.

I wonder how long it will be before her "approval" rating plummets in her home country. (I would have said state if they actually wanted to be part of the US.); September 14, 2008 1:18 PM
Independent Voter said...: LOL Vicki! Are you keeping your fingers crossed hoping for one or to not have one?; September 14, 2008 1:20 PM
Vicki in Seattle said...: depends on the magnitude, IV! depends on the magnitude!

it would be fun to have a little 4 or 5, epicenter about 10-15 miles away.

I remember right after we moved here, we were sleeping in one morning (I grew up around here), and there was a teen little one (about the same as the cat jumping on the bed). since it was nearly time to wake up anyway, we both felt it.

Himself was all "OMG! was that an EARTHQUAKE!?" and I was "yeah, it was. now go back to sleep and wait for the alarm"

however the bigger ones are scary and I could do without them. I guess it depends on where you are. the 2001 one I was working on the 8th floor of a building that was 100+ years old and not retrofitted. watching the plaster cracking across the hall was less than amusing.; September 14, 2008 1:25 PM
Karen Anne said...: iv, I've seen that McCain can't use the Internet because of his injuries, the heartless Democrats are picking on him, showing up in just the last two days. More fud, I think. As you noted, his injuries affect his shoulders.

Vicki, you're stocked up on water, batteries, canned goods, etc.?

I "missed" Loma Prieta because I was just driving into my driveway and the shock absorbers absorbed most of it. All I had to do was clean up the books it had dumped off the bookcases. And apologize to my Mom on the East Coast for not calling her to let her know I was okay. It was my fault there was no dialtone for hours :-)

Vicki, as a reward for all your hard work yesterday -
http://members.cox.net/katkolling/babycrushie.bmp; September 14, 2008 1:40 PM
Karen Anne said...: Sure wish Leah and AJ would check in.; September 14, 2008 1:46 PM
Vicki in Seattle said...: I wish they'd check in, too.

our power went out last year for about four days - so not only was our home phone out, but the local cell tower was out too. We had to hike up the hill and then there was one little spot (about 10 feet in diameter) were we just barely had signal.

but hey, we have a wood burning stove, keep stored bottled water (it's easy to do if you don't mind a small bleachy taste - I bet there's a website that gives you the exact proportions), lots and lots of canned food, blankets. Even a tent and sleeping bags good to 0 degrees F if the whole structure is unsound (we've done some camping in our day).

hubby knows how to hook up his Prius so we can power the fridge, too - no wasted food.

we are good.; September 14, 2008 2:00 PM
Independent Voter said...: Hey ya'll, if you are registered with digg.com, please DIGG this story.

It is about the anti-Palin rally in Alaska.; September 14, 2008 2:09 PM
Vicki in Seattle said...: Karen Ann, that photo is adorable!; September 14, 2008 2:23 PM
suzihussein22 said...: iv dave-Dugg it.; September 14, 2008 3:25 PM
Mike in Maryland said...: CNN is reporting:
Rove: McCain went 'too far' in ads

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/14/campaign.wrap/index.html

And (according to CNN) the Obama campaign immediately leaped on the quote.

"In case anyone was still wondering whether John McCain is running the sleaziest, most dishonest campaign in history, today Karl Rove -- the man who held the previous record -- said McCain's ads have gone too far," said campaign spokesman Tommy Vietor, in a statement sent to reporters minutes after Rove's on-air comments. Rove masterminded both of President Bush's successful White House bids.

Makes a person wonder what Rove is up to when he says things like that.

Mike; September 14, 2008 5:15 PM
Beryl said...: Mike in Maryland,

It is like Satan telling his demons that they have crossed the line. We know Rove is right but we can't trust the Republicans. They have not earned our confidence.

The Republicans -- in this time in history -- are like the Nazis. Like the Nazis fooled the German citizens, the Republicans fooled congress. Over 1 million people died in their war. They are now fooling the electorate so that they can retain power to do more evil to the world.

If we don't stop the Republicans, someone will step in externally to assist in that regard. I'm quite certain that our former allies will join our enemies against us if we don't clean up our act.; September 14, 2008 6:07 PM
Independent Voter said...: Beryl,

As disturbing a thought as it may be, I think you are correct in your assessment.; September 14, 2008 6:14 PM
Kujo said...: The press is really soft, really really soft.

Latest on Palin.

She fired the police chief in order to put one of her cronies. In this case the person she hired was to implement her plan to make rape-victims pay for post rape exams that could cost up to $1,200.

She fired the boss of her brother in-law for refusing to fire him.

She fired the librarian because she was against banning books. (Though cnn reported this to be false, cnn is wrong in that what was wrong was Palin never mentioned what books to be banned. Washing Post still stands behind the story); September 14, 2008 6:32 PM
Kujo said...: I believe internally McCain tried to distance himself from Rove. Rove made these comments to show McCain he could do damage if McCain continues to push him out.; September 14, 2008 6:46 PM
Kujo said...: Interesting Time article on Trooper Gate.

http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,1840675,00.html?xid=rss-politics-cnn

As we all have seen in recent years (and not so recent years) its the cover-up that causes more problems for polititians then the initial crime itself.

It would be interesting to see what role the McCain camp is now playing in this case.

7 witness who previously agreed to testify are now refusing....

sounds like obstruction of justice to me.; September 14, 2008 6:59 PM
Kujo said...: and doesn't Trooper Wooten look like the police officer on Hero's?; September 14, 2008 7:00 PM
Independent Voter said...: Kujo,

We already know that McCain and his people have a HUGE hand in the cover up. I'm sure that he has already gotten in contact with Bush's legal team to find out how to get away with it without getting caught.

Speaking of Karl Rove, why isn't this jerk in jail? Perhaps it's because the Dems still haven't grown a spine. And people wonder why I'm not registered as a "Democrat".; September 14, 2008 7:15 PM
Independent Voter said...: Oh, and I'm not sure about the trooper lookalike. I don't know what either one of them look like.; September 14, 2008 7:16 PM
Beryl said...: Sheryl Crow will send the first 50,000 people her latest CD FREE if they register three friends to vote.

http://www.rockthevote.com/music/featured-artist/sheryl-crow.html; September 14, 2008 8:47 PM
Independent Voter said...: I'll bet ya anything Leah and AJ are going absolutely NUTZ because they can't check in here or with the news in general.; September 14, 2008 9:09 PM
Vicki in Seattle said...: well, if they ask, we'll just have to say that we've been up to nothing. absolutely nothing. not us. just playing bridge and drinking sherry.

:-); September 14, 2008 9:14 PM
Vicki in Seattle said...: oh, btw, poor poor Cindy McCain. She feels that the ladies of The View treated her and her husband badly.

time to put on the big girl panties, dear. Your husband is running for POTUS, not dogcatcher. things are bound to get nasty.

Just look at the cr*p Michelle and Barack have had to put up with, and for MONTHS now.

Oh wait, you don't care about THEM, do you? then never mind.; September 14, 2008 9:16 PM
Mike in Maryland said...: Vicki in Seattle said...
. . . just playing bridge and drinking sherry.

Vicki,

Make that playing euchre and drinking gin and tonics for me!

VBG

Mike; September 14, 2008 9:22 PM
Beryl said...: Cindy needs to shut up. She has been handled with kid gloves by the MSM this entire campaign.

1. She LIES.
-- She lied about the facts around adopting her daughter. She never met Mother Theresa.
-- She said on several occasions that she is an only-child but has at least 2 other siblings.

2. She is a THIEF and a CHEATER.
- Stole drugs and ruined the lives of those who worked for her charity as part of her crime.
- Didn't pay her taxes on at least one of her many homes.
-- Still refuses to fully disclose tax information.

3. She is the true ELITIST
-- Says that the only way to get around Arizona is by plane.
-- Shamelessly wears a $300K outfit at the RNC while US citizens are losing their homes.

What did Michelle do? She makes one "proud" comment and the media and Cindy criticized her about it for months. She congratulates her husband with a fist-bump and Fox calls it a terrorist bump.; September 14, 2008 9:38 PM
suzihussein22 said...: vicki-How about playing rummy and drinking Jack?

(giddy giggle) I thought I was excited when I met Porter Waggoner at Opryland. (giddy giggle); September 14, 2008 9:43 PM
Vicki in Seattle said...: okay, the general theme seems to be "card games" and "alcohol".

VBG

anyway, if AJ and Leah ask us what we've been up to, that's our story and we need to stick to it!!; September 14, 2008 9:45 PM
suzihussein22 said...: iv dave-Thank you for keeping an objective view of politicians. I'm registered Dem., but a few times I haven't agreed with them, such as Bredeson. I'm not necessarily happy with a 2 party system, but I try to stick with what usually benefits the state or country the most.; September 14, 2008 9:46 PM
tmess2 said...: Now, now let's not be so tough on poor John and Cindy. You have to understand, when the media is being tough on Democrats, that's just the media doing their patriotic duty as a free press in the greatest country on earth. However, when the media is being tough on Republican, that's the media showing their biased elitist liberal side. And if we could only see the light of truth as God has revealed to Governor Palin for these trying times, we would understand this.; September 14, 2008 9:47 PM
suzihussein22 said...: beryl-I've seen many double standards also.; September 14, 2008 9:48 PM
suzihussein22 said...: tmess2-How true. The McCains' are just living the American dream. The Obamas' couldn't possibly have made it on just intelligence and merits. Imagine the connections they had to get into good schools. Let me know if I'm completely in "right" field.; September 14, 2008 9:51 PM
Vicki in Seattle said...: I hate it when people make it on intelligence and merits!

makes me sooooo sooooo angry!

(geez, I'll need to get out my hip waders soon); September 14, 2008 10:00 PM
suzihussein22 said...: vicki-I'd lend you mine if I was in a flood zone.

Good news-Obama has another 500,000 new donors. It won't be long before he's knocking on the door of 3 mil. donors-

http://tinyurl.com/5gtkk7; September 14, 2008 10:34 PM
apissedant said...: Why has the 313,100.00 dollar outfit not gotten more media coverage? Why did I hear about a 400 dollar haircut for an entire year, but $313,100.00 outfit is no big deal? WHAT IS GOING ON!?!?; September 14, 2008 11:08 PM
Karen Anne said...: Wish AJ and Leah had traded a phone number with someone so this worry would not be lurking in my brain. I assume they're safe, according to where they said they are, though.

Too bad Obama does not have some way to give an inspiring message to his "troops," so we'd get all fired up and optimistic. I'm getting a migraine from the poll numbers.

I was about to type in something rude about Elisabeth Hasselbeck, who (nausea: was born in my home town) was blathering away before the View about how Cindy McCain had not put any limits on what she could be asked while Michelle apparently had and so how wonderful Cindy was, when I went to wiki to check the spelling of her last name.

There I found this: "When asked, "Is the country more racist than sexist?" by co-host Joy Behar, Hasselbeck was quick to respond with "Don't we have the answer already? Wasn't a black man able to walk into a voting booth long before a woman?""

What is it with rightwing nutjobs and a basic knowledge or lack thereof of history. I assume that if she went to the same high school I did that it had deteriorated badly by then.

You'd think that people who were "extremely patriotic" would actually know something about their country.

Well, on one of the dcw threads there is a discussion of the elitist complaints and voting, and someone said the country was near the tipping point in voters being college graduates. I would feel better about that if, as ap(?), noted they weren't getting into and maybe out of college still being ignorant.

US history out to be a requirement for hs graduation.

Annoyed migraine mouth off now.; September 14, 2008 11:09 PM
Kujo said...: Does anyone else agree.

Lou Dobbs is a &*^*&^&*^; September 14, 2008 11:28 PM
apissedant said...: karen,
Do you realize one of the major areas that both Universities and High Schools are rated on is their retention rate?

My father tried to tell me that Bush must be pretty smart, because after all, he graduated from Harvard. Harvard graduates 98% of the students that start attending it. Admission is the hard part, and my father realizes that Bush was only admitted due to his father. His SAT score was abysmal, no where near Harvard levels.

In any case, I have wandered a bit off topic. Back to the subject at hand, the University I attend only has a 78% retention rate. This, along with many other factors, result in a much lower school ranking. The former President sent out an email to all faculty last year talking about this serious problem. She advised all faculty to think about changing grade requirements in order to increase the retention rate.

That's right, in order to increase our school's ranking and ensure we have as much access to state funds as possible, the President of the University wanted us to allow unqualified people to graduate. This is not unique.

The other major school in the same city fired a biology teacher last year for failing too many students. No one has argued that the students had the information to pass, or that he was outside of his right to fail them. The fact is they needed students to graduate, and he was not allowing it to happen. There was a "letter to the editor" war between him and the school for the next several months.; September 14, 2008 11:28 PM
suzihussein22 said...: karen anne-I feel for ya. I bet you want to smack the bubbly naivete out of her. ;)

peevish-What else would she do with 300,000? Oh, get McCain a computer that is adapted to his old war injuries. Poor things. Bless their evangelical hearts.; September 14, 2008 11:29 PM
apissedant said...: suzi,
My mother has MS and only has one partially working limb. She can use a computer just fine. They also have phenomenal voice recognition software for those who can afford it. I'm tired of Republican excuses.; September 14, 2008 11:36 PM
suzihussein22 said...: peevish-Tired of excuses...me too.; September 14, 2008 11:38 PM

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