Democratic Convention Watch: Open Thread

Tuesday, April 01, 2008

Open Thread

WE'VE MOVED! Democratic Convention Watch is now at http://www.DemocraticConventionWatch.com

What is McCain's latest "senior moment", what does Obama need to do to win in November or whatever else is on your mind.

And please be excellent to one another. We do not accept name calling or any attacks on our commenters. Any objectionable comments will be deleted. Try to be civil.

Thanks!

Previous Open Thread is here

9481 comments:

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vwis said...: Because of her eminence gris it might be also be considered a real coup de gras by foreign leaders and supporters. He therefore by passes testing on the international stage.; November 19, 2008 8:10 AM
vwis said...: Suzi,

It's funny that no one here buys it. You all know each other too well, that it's not worth the effort. If only the impostor were that informed.; November 19, 2008 8:15 AM
vwis said...: Aunt Jean,

Take your antibotics until they're all used and you'll be back to you ole self before you know it. This too shall just be a memory.

RE: "HowObamaGotElected"
I'm sure by offending half the electorate (telling them they're stupid) they're going to win them over for the next election. Now who's the stupid one.; November 19, 2008 8:27 AM
vwis said...: Re neo-cons:

Let them go, it should be interesting to watch a snake eat it own tail.; November 19, 2008 8:35 AM
vwis said...: I think its AF&O posting as Karen Anne. Karen Anne been shouting her down lately.; November 19, 2008 8:37 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Hey my friends
not the trolls. As you can probable guess by now she is using my name also.I do not have nor have I ever had the clap.Refering to the 3:11 am post. She/he needs to learn how to spell.AJ; November 19, 2008 8:50 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Vwis

I have a lung,and sinus infection. AJ; November 19, 2008 8:53 AM
vwis said...: I just heard on Morning Joe that David De Rothschild is taking a trip on boat made out of recycles bottles and such. I think he should take Lynn with him.; November 19, 2008 8:59 AM
vwis said...: Aunt Jean,

The impostor posed as you at 3:11 a.m. No one buying her garbage why does she give it up.

I'm emailing Matt. He'll handle her.; November 19, 2008 9:03 AM
Aunt Jean said...: vwis

I was going to email Matt last night but couldn't find where to email him. AJ; November 19, 2008 9:06 AM
vwis said...: Aunt Jean:

I know you're a big Clinton supporter, but I do question her receiving money for her campaign from goldservice. It's a Columbian group that gives money to high profile American Universities deans. They want in NAFTA. Bill's also received money for speaking from them. It's illegal to receive foreign money to run for president. Hope it doesn't sink her chances.

What I want to know is no other country is so anxious to get NAFTA so what's up with that? It should be Brazil.; November 19, 2008 9:14 AM
vwis said...: Happy Birthday 85th Ted Stevens! Here's the Dems gift to you. At 85 retirement should be the best gift.

Alaska air and water must keep you young, I would never have guessed he was 85. Gives we've a lot to look forward to with Palin. LOL!; November 19, 2008 9:26 AM
vwis said...: Aunt J,

He's posting on the front page now.; November 19, 2008 9:27 AM
vwis said...: Aunt J,

I think it's AF&O. She said yesterday that she was getting bored here. She's just trying to stir up something. It's not working. She forgets we're not Repubs we can actually use our brains. We're not ditto heads who follow blowhards.; November 19, 2008 9:36 AM
vwis said...: Aunt J,

What she doesn't get is we are supporters. That means we support each other through good and bad. We don't judge each other because someone is going through a hard time. She's jealous because the Repubs all turn on each other if they have any failings or go through a hard time. She doesn't know what a friend is.; November 19, 2008 9:43 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Viwis

where exactly did you find that info on Hillary. It's amazing that people on here can find things but I can look for an hour and can't find anything. Or it's either on a blog which doesn't mean crap! AJ; November 19, 2008 9:49 AM
vwis said...: All she's hearing are echoes of empty words and empty promises whistling through the corridors of her mind. I feel sorry for her.

AF&O,
Change your ways and you too can be part of something that is uplifting and not depressing. No one should have to live like that.; November 19, 2008 10:05 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Vwis

I guess what really bites my ass not only here but in other sources. People can't be happy unless they are trashing the Clintons. They are so ready to believe every little bit of trash anyone ever says about the Clintons doesn't matter if it's true, part true, are distorded.Or a damn right LIE! You even have people saying Richardson is a better choose than Clinton. Once again Richardson is a back stabber and he's out for only hisself. I'm sure I can find garbage on Obama on several sites. But I also know that it would never be posted on here because it's Obama. But everone is so willing to put the TRASH and any TRASH on Hillary on here!Now I've fu##### pissed. Why because I'm tired of having to defend her. We can even go back and say some things on Michelle about her hugh pay raise.But do I, Hell no. But everone on here except a few is willing to believe everything about Hillary. That's not fair. Give her a frigging break!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! AJ; November 19, 2008 10:11 AM
vwis said...: Aunt J,

Back in the primaries Leah posted a link to the goldservice website. It was in spanish. It was in her fund raising disclosure.; November 19, 2008 10:12 AM
vwis said...: Aunt Jean,

I'm not against her as SOS I'm just warning you that it might come up. So don't get your hopes too high, it might not pan out. I already said it would be a coup de gras for Obama. It would show he has power.

RE: Michelle's pay raise he said that she went from part-time to full-time when the girls became school age. Yes, I admit it's high but, a good corporate lawyer can save them millions.; November 19, 2008 10:19 AM
vwis said...: The echoes comment was in regards to the impostor.; November 19, 2008 10:21 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Vw

I believe the main problem about Hillary is: 1 she's a woman and a powerful one
2 she's Bill Clinton's wife
3 people are jealous
4 Hillary is for the middle class and the rich can't stand it.

aj; November 19, 2008 10:24 AM
vwis said...: He's posting on the front page now.

She's just trying to stir up something....

What she doesn't get is we are supporters...

All about the impostor. Didn't mean to make your blood boil.; November 19, 2008 10:27 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Vw

I'm sorry but it wouldn't go up that much It only went up that much when Obama got in the senate.coinstance or what? AJ; November 19, 2008 10:27 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Vwis

this is what I'm talking about:::

Back in the primaries Leah posted a link to the goldservice website. It was in spanish. It was in her fund raising disclosure.

It wasn't even in english. Now don't you think if there was even a grain of truth that it would have been all over the news. Since the media was always dogging Hillary!!! AJ; November 19, 2008 10:30 AM
Aunt Jean said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; November 19, 2008 10:32 AM
vwis said...: I guess what really bites

It's hard when fundraising to always follow the money flow. Even Obama had to return money when he discovered where it came from. IE. Rezko, & foreigners ordering t-shirts.

Meet me at Indy's Rant & R's. So we don't have to deal with the impostor.; November 19, 2008 10:33 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Vwis

don't get me wrong I'm not dogging Michelle nor am I trying to make her look bad that was a fact not from a newspaper, words of some blog or anything of that nature. It was from the Obamas tax papers. AJ; November 19, 2008 10:34 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Vwis

I don't have the link anymore since my nephew did a recovery on my computer. AJ; November 19, 2008 10:37 AM
vwis said...: It wasn't even in english.

I wasn't trashing Clinton, I was questioning Columbia's motives. Its their website. They are a spanish-speaking country. Brazil is emerging as the leader in industralization in SA. Why wouldn't they be the ones wanting in. Bush also, is a supporter of Columbia. The issues I have is with Columbia.; November 19, 2008 10:38 AM
vwis said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; November 19, 2008 10:40 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: I have no idea what ya'll are talking about. I don't remember ever posting anything in Spanish. I can't even read Spanish.

I did post the link to the official court docket out in California a few months ago regarding the Peter Paul vs. Clinton court dates. I think that IS relevant here since HRC will need to be approved to be SoS. Any pending lawsuits will be looked at by the vetting committee. Also I don't think that 'talking' about issues regarding Bill or Hillary is 'trashing' them. As long as there isn't any name calling then we should be able to talk about the issues.

I have a headache today, so I'll be back later. Ciao ;(; November 19, 2008 12:16 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Leah

I'm looking at court in cali. right now and there is none for Peter vs clinton.So no I don't think it's relevant.I'm sorry she has been first lady I do believe the vetting is different with her and it should be. AJ; November 19, 2008 12:36 PM
Aunt Jean said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; November 19, 2008 12:36 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: AJ

You can go to

http://www.lasuperiorcourt.org/civilCaseSummary/index.asp?CaseType=Civil

and where it says CASE NUMBER type in: BC304174

It's there.; November 19, 2008 2:13 PM
Mike in Maryland said...: vwis,

I ran a quick check on Blogger profile IDs, and it doesn't appear that AF&O is the impostor

UNLESS

AF&O is smarter than the usual Reich-wing supporter.

Mike; November 19, 2008 2:54 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Leah

to begin with Hillary name isn't on the court case:VS WILLIAM JEFFERSON CLINTON. The way you were talking it was against Hillary. Besides its a lawsuit for less than 25,000 dollars. It's not that big of a deal only people make it a big deal!!!!!!!!!!!!!! AJ; November 19, 2008 2:56 PM
Aunt Jean said...: I'm sorry Hillary isn't responsible for what Bill does. If you tell your husband or wife to jump and if they jump I would be calling them pussywhipped if it the husband and if its the wife she would be about stupid!!!!!!!!! AJ; November 19, 2008 3:00 PM
Karen Anne said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; November 19, 2008 3:07 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; November 19, 2008 3:08 PM
Karen Anne said...: The Times has an article at
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/20/us/politics/20clinton.html
on what would happen to Hillary's campaign debt if she becomes SoS, because Cabinet members can't solicit funds. So, it looks like it would be tough to raise any money to pay the debts.

The bad news is people are still owed about $7.9 million. The good news is about $5.3 million of that is owed to Mark Penn :-); November 19, 2008 3:09 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: AJ-

I am not going to debate it with you. But Bill's business dealings do affect Hillary, especially since Peter Paul was involved in Hillary's senate race fundraising. And I don't have time right now to go researching the whole thing but there was more than $1,000,000 involved in the dealings between the Clintons and Peter Paul.

That's all I am going to say on the matter.

The Obama vetting team will know what is important and what is not.

As far as HRC getting the SoS position I hope she gets it mainly because I know that you will be upset if he gives it to Richardson and I sure don't want to hear about that for the next four years ;); November 19, 2008 3:11 PM
Independent Voter said...: AJ, Ok the claws have been retracted. And I really wasn't trying to rip on Hillary over here, I hope you realize that. But I told you stop reading...........LOL

But here was her response when asked about DOMA: Secondly, DOMA, I believe that DOMA served a very important purpose. I was one of the architects in the strategy against the Marriage Amendment to the constitution, and DOMA gave us a bright line to be able to hold back the votes that were building up to do what I consider to be absolutely abominable and that would be to amend the constitution to enshrine discrimination. I believe marriage should be left to the states. I support civil unions as I've said many times with full equality of benefits and so I think that DOMA appropriately put the responsibility in the states where it has historically belonged and I think you're beginning to see states take action. I think it's, I think part three of DOMA needs to be repealed because part three stands in the way of the full extension of federal benefits and I support that. So that's the first.

Anyway, as I have said, I hope that she accepts the SoS position. However, if she decides not to take it, Teddy Kennedy has also presented her with the possibility of a leadership role in the Senate dealing with healthcare.; November 19, 2008 4:33 PM
jean said...: Indy,
I think HRC would rather have the position in Healthcare with Teddy but we will see.
From what I hear being SOS is usually only 4 years because it really can burn a person out.
She could do 4 and 4 :)

Life good in your world?

jean; November 19, 2008 4:39 PM
Independent Voter said...: OK, I've finally gotten caught up here on the board.

AJ, are you feeling any better today? I hope so.

I hope you're not getting too angry. I for one am not really interested in the Peter Paul case any longer (of course I was during the primary - but not so much any more.); November 19, 2008 4:56 PM
Independent Voter said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; November 19, 2008 4:58 PM
jean said...: Indy,
Nope.
Not sure when or if I will.
I work from home so they will not notice.

I got OFFICIAL word today that the daughter made Varsity so that is cool.

Glad Bill is doing well.
Which actually means you are also:)
I already did the heart attack, back surgery, several knee surgerys, etc. (yes there is a etc.)
It really can put stress on YOU.

You are a busy guy and need to relax by yourself. Ever thought of having a pedicure. REAL men get them and they are good for you and they feel good.
Yep, I guess that is WAY off topic:)

I think it is time to stop my rambling.

jean; November 19, 2008 5:20 PM
jean said...: Indy,
I need to proof read more.
The husband did those things, NOT me.
jean; November 19, 2008 5:23 PM
Independent Voter said...: Jean, fantastic news for your daughter. Congrats!!!!!!!!

I already get manicures and pedicures. BUT we usually go together.....LOL!!!!

But something I haven't told him yet, is that I am going on Friday to get a massage.....WITHOUT him! LOL; November 19, 2008 5:25 PM
Independent Voter said...: No problem, I figured that's what you meant. Bill and I have both had our share of physical problems. We've both had broken bones, I broke my left ring finger (actually split the bone closest to the hand) so bad that I had to have 3 pins put in until it could grow back together (it was on for 6 months. Therapy was hell. I had developed an ulcer so bad that I ended up losing 50 lbs in a matter of 4 months (and the doctors couldn't find it) I'm 6'3" tall, my normal body weight is roughly 180 (yes I'm thin) but I dropped down to 127 lbs. (This was 6 years ago) The doctors thought I was a goner. Bill had a heart attack back in 1999, 5 months before we moved out here. So ya, we've had our share. UGH!; November 19, 2008 5:31 PM
jean said...: Indy,
Wow. The similaritys are a bit freaky.
I can truly say I love my old guy,
will Bill let you say that?
Saying that is part of the joy that I have to terrorize him:)
He doesn't mind.

I never said this before but my guy's name is Bill but he goes by a different nickname with me. The family only calls him that.

Yep, a bit on the freaky side.

127lbs at 6'3".
Holy crud.

jean; November 19, 2008 5:41 PM
Mike in Maryland said...: Speaking of pedicures, a spa in Northern Virginia (with locations in Alexandria and Fairfax County, I believe) has a pedicure where you put your feet in a pool of water and small fish 'graze' the dead skin off the feet.

I'm told it feels funny when the fish are 'grazing', but the final result is said to be wonderful.

Mike; November 19, 2008 5:45 PM
jean said...: mike in maryland,
Get it while you can.
They have outlawed the pedicure with the fish in Oregan and CA.
Since the fish cannot be sanitized between pedicures the health department shut it down.
I heard it is great:)

jean; November 19, 2008 5:50 PM
Independent Voter said...: Jean I actually have a different phrase. Instead of saying that i love my 'old guy' I always say that I love my old fart.; November 19, 2008 5:57 PM
Independent Voter said...: We do have some good news out of CA. The State Supreme Court has FINALLY agreed to hear the case regarding Prop 8. I do hope however that we (the gay community) continues with the protests (even if the court overturns it) because this issue is broader than just CA, it is a nationwide effort. The other states have stood by us, it is time that we stand up for them too.

I truly hope that Obama follows through with the repeal of DOMA since there will be a huge majority in Congress then have someone challenge the IRS (most likely from MA based on the tax code. This would force the SCOTUS to hear the case.; November 19, 2008 6:02 PM
jean said...: Indy,
Nope, I do not use that phrase, but he does:)

jean; November 19, 2008 6:02 PM
Independent Voter said...: LOL Jean, of course I use it in an endearing way, USUALLY!; November 19, 2008 6:06 PM
Independent Voter said...: Ok, I totally forgot about one of McCain's most notorious statements LATE in the campaign: "We have them right where we want them." I wonder if that statement still holds true. LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!; November 19, 2008 6:16 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: New Roadblock To Clinton's Cabinet Post: The Constitution

The Washington Post reports that, beyond the vetting, there may be another roadblock to Hillary Clinton's Cabinet seat: a clause in the Constitution.

It's called the Constitution of the United States, specifically, Article One, Section Six, also known as the emoluments clause. ("Emoluments" means things like salaries.) It says that no member of Congress, during the term for which he was elected, shall be named to any office "the emoluments whereof shall have been increased during his term." This applies, we're advised, whether the member actually voted on the raises or not.

In Clinton's case, during her current term in the Senate, which began in January 2007, cabinet salaries were increased from $186,600 to $191,300. This situation has arisen before, most famously in the case called "The Saxbe Fix," but it involves a controversial, somewhat tortured reading of the Sacred Document.

.; November 19, 2008 6:29 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Leah

I'm sure there are ways to get around that.AJ; November 19, 2008 7:36 PM
Aunt Jean said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; November 19, 2008 7:37 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Leah

does this mean that Biden can't take the VP spot or does this just apply to Hillary! AJ; November 19, 2008 7:39 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Leah

remember Obama knows Constitution so I'm sure if there is such a law that he knows how to get around or he wouldn't even vet Hillary. AJ; November 19, 2008 7:49 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Dave
I'm still waiting for you to show me that Hillary and Obama feel differently about Doma or that they voted differently. AJ; November 19, 2008 7:52 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Leah

everyone one hear can defend Richardson all they want. It really surprises me that most of the people on here that is usually very smart is so blind to Richardson. Well like I said if Obama puts him in any position he had better keep a close eye on him because he will stab him in the back if he gets a better offer. AJ; November 19, 2008 7:59 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Leah
as far as Hillary getting SOS if that is what she want s that fine if not thats fine too. I just don't want Richardson getting he does not deserve it. AJ; November 19, 2008 8:00 PM
jean said...: Leah,
In reference to the income raise of less than $5000 for HRC. Natural compensation for inflation, like social security adjustments, could easily be handled by any lawyer.
This is mute in my opinion.

I know you did not bring this point up but just brought light to the information.
This is stupid.

jean; November 19, 2008 8:05 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: AJ-

Biden is not being 'named' - he was elected by voters.

The whole story on The Washington Post has more detail about a way around it but it looks likes only a republican has in the past and the democrats were up in arms about it .. so it is going to be tricky if they want to go against the U.S. Constitution and still save face.; November 19, 2008 8:14 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Here's the Washington Post link:

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/11/19/hillary_clintons_fix.html

.; November 19, 2008 8:20 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Leah

like I said Obama knows Constitution Law so I'm sure that he knows how to get around it or he wouldn't be wasting not only his time but Hillarys time. AJ; November 19, 2008 8:23 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Leah

so now The Washington post knows more about Constitution Law than Obama interesting. AJ; November 19, 2008 8:27 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; November 19, 2008 8:51 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: AJ-

Don't shoot the messenger ;)

No one said that the Washington Post knows more than Obama. And no one has said that Obama has even thought about this issue. He has a million things going on right now all at once and I am sure 'he' personally is not focusing on HRC since he has his vetting team and lawyers doing that for him.

The only reason I even brought it up in the first place was because it is one of the top headlines on Huffington Post.; November 19, 2008 8:53 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Leah

Ireally don;'t believe that it's that important or Obama would have already said something so at this point I think he knows what he's doing. AJ; November 19, 2008 9:02 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Leah

I just imagine he's involved in the vetting info more than you think in his top key positions. AJ; November 19, 2008 9:04 PM
Independent Voter said...: AJ, Obama has never voted on it since nobody has called for its repeal since he has been in the Senate; however, he has long been on record stating the he is in favor of its repeal.

Here is Hillary's statement from her Human Rights Campaign questionnaire.
This is from the excerpt from question 7. "I have long been on record supporting equality in benefits and eliminating discrimination against gays and lesbians. I support repealing the provision of DOMA that may prohibit the federal government from providing benefits to people
in states that recognize same sex marriage. I strongly support ensuring people in stable, long-term same sex relationships have full equality of benefits, rights, and responsibilities.

This excerpt is taken directly from Obama's website: Support Full Civil Unions and Federal Rights for LGBT Couples - Barack Obama supports full civil unions that give same-sex couples equal legal rights and privileges as married couples, including the right to assist their loved ones in times of emergency as well as equal health insurance, employment benefits, and property and adoption rights. Obama also believes we need to fully repeal the Defense of Marriage Act and enact legislation that would ensure that the 1,100+ federal
legal rights and benefits currently provided on the basis of marital status are extended to same-sex couples in civil unions and other legally-recognized unions.; November 19, 2008 9:35 PM
Emit R Detsaw said...: Okay AJ. A long while back I stopped bashing the Clintons because it was upsetting you. At that time you were saying some really bad things about Obama because you didn't really know him. We came to an agreement, you did some good research, and saw the Obama light. We were all proud of you.

Now to the point of this point. I know you HATE Bill RIchardson because he endorsed Obama. As far as I can see, that is the only thing you have against him, and may be the only thing you really know about him. I say this not to make you mad, but to point out the following facts that show he is highly qualified to be the SoS. Even more so than Hillary.

1) After he graduated from College he went to work for Congressman Morse from Massachusetts. He went from that work to being a staff member of the Senate Foriegn Relations Committee. That was back in the 70's. He even had a job during that time under SoS Henry Kissinger.

2)In 1980 Bill was elected to the Congress where he served for 14 years. It was while he was the deputy majority whip, that he met Bill Clinton.

3) Clinton in turn sent Richardson on various foreign policy missions, including a trip in 1996 in which Richardson traveled to Baghdad with Peter Bourne and engaged in lengthy one-on-one negotiations with Saddam Hussein to secure the release of two American aerospace workers who had been captured by the Iraqis after wandering over the Kuwaiti border. Richardson also visited Nicaragua, Guatemala, Cuba, Peru, India, North Korea, Bangladesh, Nigeria, and Sudan to represent U.S. interests and met with Slobodan Milosevic. Due to these missions, Richardson was nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize three times.

4) Then he served as the US Ambassador to the UN.

5) Even Bush 43 used Bill Richardson to negotiate with the North Koreans for the release of remains of fallen US military as well as some of the items that led to the N.K.s giving up their nuclear program.

So Bill Richardson is HIGHLY qualified to be SoS. He would proudly serve and do this Country great things on the International stage.; November 19, 2008 9:40 PM
Mike in Maryland said...: Aunt Jean said...
remember Obama knows Constitution so I'm sure if there is such a law

Aunt Jean,

A provision of the Constitution CAN NOT be over-ridden by a law. If Congress passes a law that is not in complete accordance with the Constitution, the US Supreme Court can, and will, rule the law is unConstitutional.

Article I, Section 6, paragraph 2 of the Constitution states:
No Senator or Representative shall, during the Time for which he was elected, be appointed to any civil Office under the Authority of the United States, which shall have been created, or the Emoluments whereof shall have been encreased during such time; and no Person holding any Office under the United States, shall be a Member of either House during his Continuance in Office.

To translate, Senator Clinton's current elected term runs from January 3, 2007 to January 3, 2013. In January, 2007, Congress passed a law that increased the compensation (Emoluments) of all Cabinet-level officials. Since Senator Clinton was a member of Congress when this bill passed, whether she voted for, against, or didn't vote, and since that bill passed during her current term, the Constitution states that she cannot be appointed to any such office that got that increase in salary (Emoluments).

The Constitution can only be changed by a Constitutional Amendment, passed by a 2/3rd vote in the Senate AND the House AND then passed by 3/4th of the states. It takes several weeks for such an action to happen - hearings in subcommittee, then full committee in one chamber, then a 2/3rd vote, then to the other Congressional chamber for the same thing. If Congress passes such a proposed Constitutional Amendment, then 3/4th of the states must pass the proposed amendment, usually with it going to a subcommittee hearing, full committee hearing, then vote in one chamber, then to the other chamber for the same process.

If you are wondering if this Constitutional provision applies to Senator Kerry, for instance, it would not. Yes he was a Senator in January, 2007 when the increase in salary was enacted. However, his current term ends at Noon on January 3, 2009, and then a new term begins. He cannot become an appointee under President Obama until after Obama is sworn in on January 20, 2009, and thus after his new term begins. Thus it does not apply to him, as the increase in salary would not occur during the 'current' term of Senatorship, but in the prior term.

Mike; November 19, 2008 9:42 PM
Independent Voter said...: I have to agree with Jean and AJ. And I'm not saying this next part to be mean at all. Most of the Repubs in Congres absolutely despise both Bill and Hillary Clinton. Like I said, I'm not saying that to be a dick by any means, it is what it is. With that said, does ANYONE really think the Repubs would challenge her making the move to SoS? They would more than likely be happy to let her out of Congress because she could make their lives a living hell....again, that is just my opinion.

Either way, I think she is going to give the Repubs hell. No matter what decision she makes, I'm sure she will make the right decision as she sees it for not only for her, but also for the country.

In addition, I do think that she is going to take it because Bill is already making concessions to the Obama team and is willing to accommodate to whatever they ask.; November 19, 2008 9:43 PM
Independent Voter said...: OOPS! I was writing as Mike was typing. Ouch, if your interpretation is correct, then I'm not sure what can be done to get beyond that.; November 19, 2008 9:48 PM
Independent Voter said...: Mike, would she be able to accept the position at the pay level prior to the increase?; November 19, 2008 9:50 PM
Emit R Detsaw said...: Maybe she can take the appointment at the previous salary?; November 19, 2008 9:51 PM
tmess2 said...: Quick summary of Day One of Minnesota Recount.

1) 15.49% of ballots recounted
2) Unchallenged ballots -- Coleman lost 70 votes, Franken lost 27 votes
3) Coleman challenged 115 ballots, Franken challenged 106 ballots.

Presumably most of the ballots challenged by Coleman are for Franken and most of the ballots challenged by Franken are for Coleman. Based on the number of ballots challenged so far, it looks pretty clear that we will not have a winner until the canvassing board meets to review and decide the challenged ballots in December.; November 19, 2008 9:52 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Indy-

I think the uproar is going to come from the media and some of Obama supporters.

Several times on the stump Obama has said that he "has taught the Constitution, believes in the Constitution, and will obey the Constitution."

Going against the Constitution right off the bat is going to tarnish Obama's reputation and integrity. Obama is going to be between a rock and a hard place!

The thing to remember is that Obama has NOT offered anyone the SoS position yet, so there is still time for him to review all the issues.; November 19, 2008 9:52 PM
Mike in Maryland said...: I need to make a slight correction.

I stated:
. . . she cannot be appointed to any such office that got that increase in salary (Emoluments).

That statement should read:
". . . she cannot be appointed during her current term (term running until January 3, 2013) to any such office that got that increase in salary (Emoluments)."

That is how I understand this situation, although some might consider that since there will be a new Congress beginning on January 3, 2009, this provision does not apply, or have some other interpretation.

I am not a Constitutional law scholar or expert. I'll leave the final word up to those who know more than I do.

Mike; November 19, 2008 9:57 PM
vwis said...: Leah,

I have no idea what ya'll are talking about.

I was pointing out to AJ that during the primary you posted Hillary's Fundraising Disclosure. I believe it was in the spring. In the disclosure she listed Goldservice a Columbian group that gave funds to her campaign and Bill received money for speaking. It could be an issue. I'm really more concerned a why Columbia is pushing so hard to get into NAFTA. Brazil is more industrialized and you would think if a SA country would want in it should be them.; November 19, 2008 9:57 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: tmess2-

Your numbers are not correct.

Look at these..

http://ww2.startribune.com/news/metro/elections/returns/2008/recount/msenco.html

.; November 19, 2008 9:57 PM
Independent Voter said...: Leah, I don't know where the Star Tribune is getting its numbers, but tmess was getting the numbers from the Minnesota SoS' official website which is updated at 8:00 every night.

If the recount is taking place later than 8 then that could explain the difference between the two sets of numbers.; November 19, 2008 10:06 PM
Aunt Jean said...: One more time

since there seems to be some deaf people on here. I'M SURE IF HILLARY CAN NOT BE OBAMA SOS HE WOULD HAVE ALREADY SAID SOMETHING.Please drop it it's a mute point at this time!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!AJk; November 19, 2008 10:12 PM
jean said...: mike in maryland,
I understand but find this absurd over less than a 3% increase.
Less than inflation.

I just do not agree with this.
According to law, I kind of understand the implications, I am not a expert on the constitution or law.
It does not make sense for what the purpose of the law means.
I do not feel this is abuse or breaking the law.

jean; November 19, 2008 10:15 PM
Aunt Jean said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; November 19, 2008 10:17 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Jean

me neither!!!Plus when did the pay raise take affect was it before she was sworn in or after because if it was before r it wouldn't matter. AJ; November 19, 2008 10:20 PM
Independent Voter said...: AJ, some of us truly want to understand the situation. Many of us like to have the information so that we can counter any attacks that other may attempt to level against her appointment (if that is what transpires.) There is absolutely zero harm in discussing it.

You know full well the attacks are going to come, and I for one, would like ideas on how to counter those attacks. So please don't get so upset.

Jean, I 100% agree with you, and I'm somewhat hoping that the wording means that if she were to accept the position, and that by resigning her Senate seat there will no longer be any conflict.; November 19, 2008 10:26 PM
vwis said...: AF&O

Do the letters stand for Ambien, Finlandia, and Oxycontin?; November 19, 2008 10:27 PM
Mike in Maryland said...: This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.; November 19, 2008 10:28 PM
Independent Voter said...: Jean!!!!!!!! I just figured out why you were awakened by a such an unintentional requirement to hit the bathroom yesterday/early this morning. Today is WORLD TOILET DAY!

:); November 19, 2008 10:30 PM
Mike in Maryland said...: jean said...
mike in maryland,
I understand but find this absurd over less than a 3% increase.
Less than inflation.

Jean,

Since that provision of the Constitution does not speak of inflation or other adjustment, there is only one interpretation I can see in the provision - if the salary of the appointed officials is increased by even a half cent (valid currency at the time the Constitution was written), anyone who was in Congress at the time the bill passed, and are still in the same term as when that bill passed, they are not eligible for such positions that the bill covered.

Since a new term starts on January 3, 2009, and all House members are in a new term, this provision would not apply to them as of Noon, January 3, 2009, only to Senators who did not run for re-election on November 4, 2008.

Sometimes the Constitution has seemingly (at least to some people) incomprehensible provisions. But you have to remember, it was written in a different time (220 years ago), and much of it was the result of compromise (three independent branches; bicameral legislature; prohibition on amending to disallow slavery for the first 20 years; creation of a federal district for the central government without providing it's citizens to be represented in Congress; etc.). Fortunately, the framers of the Constitution created a method for amending the Constitution, but did it in such a manner that only the most needed amendments can be passed, making the Constitution a document that can't be easily changed at the whim of public opinion (the only notable exception, IMO, being Prohibition).

Mike; November 19, 2008 10:42 PM
Independent Voter said...: I have a question which I will probably pose to one of Poli Sci professors.

Since the President must be a natural-born citizen, does that also mean that anyone in the line of succession also be a natural-born citizen?; November 19, 2008 10:45 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Mike in maryland if I want to say Richardson is a back stabber I wills say he is a back stabber you sir are not my fu##### daddy AJ; November 19, 2008 10:47 PM
Matt said...: Folks, no personal attacks. I've deleted 1 post, and will delete others. Keep it civil.; November 19, 2008 10:49 PM
Aunt Jean said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; November 19, 2008 10:49 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Dave

and thats fine but all I've heard all darn day is Hillary this hillary that it get oldddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddd! All neg bullcrap. Most pay raises gov. that is starts on Jan. 1st. You said that they don't take office until Jan. 3rd maybe thats how they will get by it. who knows all I'm sure of is that they have a plan. AJ; November 19, 2008 10:59 PM
tmess2 said...: IV, to actually become President, you must be a natural-born citizen.

The Constitution does not even require that a candidate for the office be eligible for the job.

If someone in the line of succession is not a natural-born citizen, they would be passed over and the next in line would become president.

We have had at least two cabinet members who were not natural-born citizens -- Dr. Kissinger and Dr. Albright.; November 19, 2008 11:02 PM
Independent Voter said...: AJ, I agree that probably do have a plan. I don't think it has all been negative, I do know that some have been, but not all. Anyway, like I said, either way, she will do what is right, not only for herself, but also for the country. I think she will be great in whatever capacity she decides to serve.; November 19, 2008 11:02 PM
vwis said...: Aunt J,

I'm not sure whether she will get it or not, but I'm sure she will get whatever is best for her in the end.; November 19, 2008 11:02 PM
Independent Voter said...: tmess - thanks for the info. I wasn't sure on the succession question (obviously) but that makes sense - that they would simply be skipped over.

But the even more interesting info was that although I knew they (Albright and Kissinger) weren't natural-born citizens, they didn't even come to mind when I posed that question.; November 19, 2008 11:06 PM
jean said...: Goodnight All,
Please remember we agree to disagree.
That is why we are here.

Have a good night.
Going to bed, Farmers Hours :)

Stop laughing at me Aunt Jean.

jean; November 19, 2008 11:16 PM
Independent Voter said...: G'night Jean - I'm Laughing at you..... :); November 19, 2008 11:19 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Jean

goodnight.lol; November 19, 2008 11:21 PM
Karen Anne said...: I agree with Emit, I am kind of tired of Richardson being endlessly bashed because he endorsed Obama.

Let's be fair here. If criticizing Hillary and Bill is off limits, let's extend the same to Richardson.

Lieberman is another matter :-) Bash away.; November 19, 2008 11:34 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Karen Anne

Once again it's not about him endorsing Obama. I firmly believe without a doubt that he said what he did to the Clintons and then he went behind their back and endorsed Obama. If he would have come straight out like a man and did it like President Carter it wouldn't have bothered me it HOW HE DID IT. AJ; November 19, 2008 11:54 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Karen wouldn't compare Hillary. Richardson in the same sentence. That's fine by me!!!! But I don't like someone telling me what to say and think. They can ask politely and I will probably oblige. I want to say one more thing then I will drop it.. Other people are saying that Obama made Richardson a promise that he if would endorse him that he would make it worth his while.So we will see what happens. AJ; November 20, 2008 12:00 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: AJ-

Everyone has a right to their own opinion.

My opinion is -- that I believe Richardson when he said he never gave his word to Bill Clinton. I believe 'whatever' was said must have been misunderstood and that was why there was a disagreement between those two guys.

None of us were there at the time so we are all going to have to agree to disagree.; November 20, 2008 12:04 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Emit

no I didn't like your post. The big difference between Hillary. Richardson. Is she has moral values he doesn't. So in my opinion she would make a heck of a lot better one. So hes had some breaks I wonder whose toes he stomped on to get them.I guess what really gets me about some people on here is they do not listen to other people. v I DON"T DISLIKE RICHARDSON BECAUSE HE ENDORSED OBAMA I DISLIKE HIM BECAUSE HE DIDN"T HAVE ENOUGH balls [excuse my french] to tell them up front that is what he was going to do. Now I hate screaming but I guess there is some people on here that can not hear!!!!!!AJ; November 20, 2008 12:09 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Leah

that is youer opinion not mine. Now why is it that you would come closer to believing him and not the Clintons. You don't have to answer that because I know the answer. AJ; November 20, 2008 12:11 AM
Aunt Jean said...: To everyone

A man[woman] is not a man [woman] if you can't keep your word. If your word isn't any good then what does that say about you. I do know that sometimes you break your word because of circumstances beyond your control but you can fix that by relaying info to the parties involved so there is no misunderstandings. AJ; November 20, 2008 12:19 AM
tmess2 said...: Now that the convicted Senator has conceded and Governor Palin is stuck there until Representative Young is forced to resign, I know that our attention is turning toward Georgia and the unfinished counts and recounts in Ohio, California, and Minnesota. But befofe we leave Alaska to Palin's tender mercy, I do want to note one race from that state.

In the Sixth House District (or maybe it was the seventh), at the close of the count yesterday, the Republican was leading 5000-4999. And who says every vote doesn't cout?; November 20, 2008 12:47 AM
Mike in Maryland said...: Aunt Jean said...
Most pay raises gov. that is starts on Jan. 1st.

Aunt Jean,

For salaried employees of the federal government, Congress must approve, and the President sign, a law every year for the amount of the pay raise.

The federal government uses a bi-weekly pay period (employees get paid every other week). Pay periods run from Sunday to the second Saturday after.

At one time, pay raises (if given) began with the first day of the first full pay period beginning on or after October 1. In the 80's, a switch was made so that pay raises began with the first day of the first full pay period beginning on or after January 1.

As a result, if the first Sunday of a pay period falls on January 1, the pay raise is effective on January 1. If the first Sunday of the first full pay period falls on January 14, the pay raise is effective on January 14.

Thus, for federal government employees, a blanket statement that pay raises are effective on January 1 is correct only 1/14th (or just over 7%) of the time. It's a small point, except when the pay raise (usually as small as it is for federal government employees) doesn't go into effect until January 10 or later, then you still have to wait more than one week more after the end of the pay raise until you actually get paid. Some years, I didn't see my pay raise until after February 1 (pay period ran from January 14 to January 27, then the official pay day was 12 days after the end of the pay period, or February 8).

Also, the federal government does not pay any employee in advance, but after the end of the pay period. Some employees are paid monthly, thus they get paid after the month has elapsed, plus the additional time until the official pay day. I think (but I'm not sure) that Cabinet officials get paid bi-weekly.

In 2009, the first Sunday of the first pay period beginning on or after January 1 is January 4, and runs to January 17. The official pay date will be (for employees of most agencies) on January 29.

Mike; November 20, 2008 12:58 AM
Mike in Maryland said...: Aunt Jean said...
I firmly believe without a doubt that he said what he did to the Clintons and then he went behind their back and endorsed Obama.

Do you have any proof of that besides what Bill Clinton stated? If so, please provide a link to that proof.

If you can't, then please stop saying "don't say bad things about Hillary" and in the next breath bash Richardson.

Fair is fair. If you continue to bash Richardson, I feel it is an open invitation for any one of us to make any comment, good or bad, we want about Hillary, but as long as we can back it up, or clearly indicate it is our personal opinion.

It is my opinion that if you don't want derogatory comments made about Hillary, you should then not continue to make unsourced critical comments about Richardson.

Your choice, and we will then have permission to follow your example.

Fair enough?

Mike; November 20, 2008 1:10 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Mike In Maryland

in that case since the 1st sunday was January 1st the pay raise was already into effect by 3 days. That might be how they will get out of it. AJ; November 20, 2008 1:18 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Mike in Maryland
I meant 2 days not 3. AJ; November 20, 2008 1:19 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Mike In maryland

fair enough. The only problem is there is people on here that will not follow that advice. AJ; November 20, 2008 1:21 AM
Mike-in-GA said...: AJ - I have refrained from bashing the Clintons on this site for one reason - that was to respect your opinion and not hurt your feelings, however, each time someone even mentions one of the Clintons you go off like a time bomb. I think you need to step back, take a deep breathe and chill out. The last day has gotten out of control because of your sensitivity toward Bill and Hillary Clinton and your hatred for Bill Richardson. I didn't jump on you throughout all of this discussion but as one older mature person to another - you have stepped over the line. People on this blog have the right to discuss positive and negative stuff about the Clintons, Richardson, Lieberman, etc. I've said many times - this is not a trashy site like most of the Republicans sites I have been on - but if this continues - we will be no better than them. Even IV Dave went over the line today on Lieberman. Come on guys respect everyone's right to have a civil discussion on what we think will happen as the Obama team is built. Again AJ, I've enjoyed our discussions and you are a very passionate woman when it comes to your beliefs, but please respect everyone's feelings - Many are doing thier best to respect yours. I hope you understand that I am being sincere with you and not trying to bash you. Rest and have a good night sleep. Hopefully, things will look better when minds are fresh and clear. The people you are angry with have been your friends on this blog for many many months. Even Matt felt the need to step in and try to calm the rhetoric. Mike; November 20, 2008 2:02 AM
Aunt Jean said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; November 20, 2008 2:14 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Mike In maryland

you are right and being sick doesn't help. I know I can get carried away about Hillary. It's just that there are some people that believes all the bad things about her and then they can except someone else's word about what they did or didn't say but they don't show her the same respect. I guess the main thing it hurts. That might sound dumb but it would take to long to explain that one.Tomorrow is a fresh day and hopefully a better one. Oh yea sorry about earlier. I really didn't mean to come down so hard on you. I must of had some back flashes. Can't explain one of thoughs thing that is better to leave in the past.Have a good night. AJ; November 20, 2008 2:26 AM
Mike-in-GA said...: Goodnight AJ, Dave, Mike-in-MD, Karen Anne, vwis, tmess2, Leah, Jean, Emit, "Jim Bob", "Mary Ellen" and finally "John Boy". I better behave or I will be in trouble!:) Hope you all have a goodnight sleep. Take Care and see you all tomorrow.; November 20, 2008 2:27 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Gnight to Mike IN Ga. AJ; November 20, 2008 2:28 AM
Mike in Maryland said...: Aunt Jean said...
Mike In Maryland

in that case since the 1st sunday was January 1st

Aunt Jean,

It is NOT the first Sunday. It is the first Sunday of the first full pay period of January. In 2007, that first Sunday of the first full pay period fell on January 14.

However, that is not the point.

Hillary was reelected in 2006 to a Senate term that began January 3, 2007, or for the 110th (current), 111th (beginning January 3, 2009) and the 112th (beginning January 4, 2011). The bill to raise Cabinet salaries was enacted in January, 2007, or during the 110th Congress.

According to many reading the specific clause in the Constitution, since the bill to raise Cabinet salaries occurred during the current term of Senator Clinton's office, she is not eligible for any Cabinet post.

For more information, please read the article at the Washington Post, located at http://voices.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/11/19/hillary_clintons_fix.html

The article explains the how and why it was used in prior administrations, and why some people say the previous times were illegal as they were unConstitutional.

Mike; November 20, 2008 3:05 AM
Emit R Detsaw said...: AJ Said "I DON"T DISLIKE RICHARDSON BECAUSE HE ENDORSED OBAMA I DISLIKE HIM BECAUSE HE DIDN"T HAVE ENOUGH balls [excuse my french] to tell them up front that is what he was going to do."

Excuse me? When Richardson made up his mind that he needed to publicly endorse Obama the first people he called were the Clintons. To endorse the opponent of your friend's wife take's more "balls" for standing up to what you think is right. Believe what you want, I was simply pointing out the qualifications that Richardson has for the SoS post. I could go negative about the Clintons but choose not to.; November 20, 2008 7:03 AM
Karen Anne said...: Mike in Maryland,

I don't think it's possible to go over the line about Lieberman :-); November 20, 2008 8:06 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Emit

you do know that I could go neg. on Obama but unlike some people on here I have respect for people that is in his position or has been in that position. In the position as president , 1st lady not like some people!!!! AJ; November 20, 2008 8:21 AM
Emit R Detsaw said...: Respect is something earned. A title or position doesn't automatically mean the person should be respected.

i.e. I respect the office of the President, I don't however have an ounce of respect for President Bush.

Funny Word Verification: peaceiz

So with that. Peace and Happy Thursday. ;o); November 20, 2008 8:33 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Emit

you know if it was any other people besides the Clintons this discussion wouldn't be happening. That my friend is the saddest part about it. There are people that is so bias against them that they will never be able to see the great things that they have done and do. To me that is a travisty. That brings tears to my eyes and a sadness to my soul.AJ; November 20, 2008 8:34 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Emit

They have earned respect doesn't matter if you think they have or not. That shows the blindness of some people. 17000000 million thought she did!!!!! I was 1 of those numbers. AJ; November 20, 2008 8:39 AM
vwis said...: Good Morning,

Emit and Aunt Jean. It is indeed a pleasant morning in my part of the country.; November 20, 2008 9:30 AM
vwis said...: The first thing I heard on the news this morning was about Clinton releasing his disclosure. The second thing was about Hispanics being disappointed, because there has not been a hispanic appointment to Obama's cabinet. Of course, that lead to Richardson. Today is a new day--let's move on. Ho Hum!; November 20, 2008 9:35 AM
vwis said...: Missouri has lost its status as the bellweather state since 1956.; November 20, 2008 9:42 AM
Emit R Detsaw said...: Morning VWIS

Richardson will have a position in the Cabinet if he wants one. And since he shaved off his beard..... ;o)

As far as past administrations, I don't remember any working and filling positions prior to the Electorial College votes are cast before, but then I haven't been that interested in Politics in a long time.....; November 20, 2008 9:46 AM
vwis said...: In response to an article in HuffPo about Obama speaking in complete sentences and grammatically correct.

Palin:"Talking with complete sentences there and also too talking in a way that ordinary Americans like Joe the Plumber and Tito the Builder can't really do there, I think needing to do that isn't tapping into what Americans are needing also," she said.

There and also too she needs to go back to Alaska. So we don't have to listen to her gibberish.

The Repubs have proven they have no respect for science, math or english. Yet, they somehow have the correct interpretation of the Bible. I think not.; November 20, 2008 9:55 AM
vwis said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; November 20, 2008 9:57 AM
vwis said...: Emit,

I there and also too (I'm trying to learn a new language.) believe that Richardson and others will get posts in due time. I was pointing out that that was yesterday's news.; November 20, 2008 10:03 AM
vwis said...: It's called Republicishit.; November 20, 2008 10:05 AM
vwis said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; November 20, 2008 10:06 AM
Aunt Jean said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; November 20, 2008 10:25 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Vwis

there is a saying : keep your friends close and your enemies even closer. I don't think the hispanic community wasn't talking so much about Richardson. I believe they were talking about hispanic people in general. AJ; November 20, 2008 10:28 AM
vwis said...: Richardson and others...

By others I meant other Hispanics.; November 20, 2008 10:31 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Vwis

I knew you meant that. AJ; November 20, 2008 10:39 AM
vwis said...: I really don't care to demo any Dem. I prefer dissing Repubs.

I will raise issues with Dems, but try to be fair and balanced. It's not so easy to forgive the Repubs though for the last 8 yrs of hell. America is great the Neo-cons are not.; November 20, 2008 10:54 AM
vwis said...: Has Palin ever said a complete sentence? Other than when she was reading written scripts (speeches). If so please find a quote for me. I have not been able to locate one.; November 20, 2008 10:58 AM
jean said...: Just some info to add to the stew.

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1860727-1,00.html

jean; November 20, 2008 11:10 AM
vwis said...: Ted Stevens just said in his resignation that he doesn't have a rear-view mirror. I guess that explains how the Repubs are going to move forward after the Bush error.

Since they are fundamentalists I suspect that authorities should check his car. He probably needs to be fined for that.; November 20, 2008 11:15 AM
vwis said...: Jean,

Just some info to add to the stew.

Thanks we needed that.; November 20, 2008 11:22 AM
vwis said...: Aunt Jean,

Obama stated that he plans to have a cabinet similar to Lincoln's team of rivals. I guess your right, about Clinton. Also, that probably means Richardson is in too.; November 20, 2008 11:38 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Vwis

yes you are probably right. Well have to run to my brothers for awhile talk to you later. Have a nice day. AJ; November 20, 2008 11:46 AM
Mike in Maryland said...: A new Gallup poll indicates that the 'Republican brand' is becoming even less popular.

From CNN's Political Ticker:
Poll: GOP image goes from bad to worse

The Republican Party has hit a new low.

Just 34 percent of Americans in a Gallup Poll released Thursday say they have a favorable view of the party, down 40 percent from a month ago, before the election.

What’s worse: 61 percent of Americans have an unfavorable view of the Republican Party.

According to Gallup, that unfavorable rating is the highest the polling organization has recorded for the GOP since the measure was established in 1992.

Full article at:
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/11/20/poll-gop-image-goes-from-bad-to-worse/

Mike; November 20, 2008 12:13 PM
Mike in Maryland said...: To correct and append to an earlier post (grammar and spelling not corrected):

you know if it was any other person besides Bill Richardson this discussion wouldn't be happening. That my friend is the saddest part about it. There are people that is so bias against him that they will never be able to see the great things that he has done and do. To me that is a travisty. That brings tears to my eyes and a sadness to my soul.

In other words, Aunt Jean, please drop it, and drop it NOW.

It is getting old, old, old, and people are getting extremely tired of your constantly bringing the subject up.

Mike; November 20, 2008 12:23 PM
jean said...: Again off Topic but not really.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/LIVING/11/20/worldwar.two.folo/index.html

Things have to change and after reading this article, "WHAT THE F***!!"

Explain to me why this would not be done.
We are trying to get this passed and they cannot streamline it???????
These folks are not young, let them see this before they pass.

Yes this involves WWII and the horrors that are just now but NOT YET recognized and properly dealt with.
Transparency.
I think an executive order is way appropriate.

An executive order shows "RESPECT".

Ok, I am off the soapbox now.

jean; November 20, 2008 1:10 PM
jean said...: Very simple,
If you do not have the security clearance you do not get access.
Is this new??????

Just like getting vetted.

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/11/20/obama-transition-team-to-meet-with-defense-secretary/#more-30955

Talk about much too do about nothing.
Just stirring up trouble.

jean; November 20, 2008 2:11 PM
Karen Anne said...: Not to change the subject or anything, but I wonder how many people are doing the plant a tree for Inauguration thing?

What I decided to do is that I have some 1-2 ft high "volunteer" red cedars on a vacant lot. I had been planning on cutting them down in case I ever build there, but now I'm going to let them stay.

Esp. with the Times article about millions of acres of trees dying in the West due to some beetle, this seems really important. The amount of carbon sink lost must be incredible.; November 20, 2008 3:28 PM
Emit R Detsaw said...: K.A.

Nature normally takes back over if allowed to.

We cut down 7 trees in our back yard last year. We have 5 volunteer oak trees up about 2 feet and 2 volunteer Mountain Laurals, so the 7 we cut down, nature has replaced. ;o); November 20, 2008 3:37 PM
jean said...: The DOW ended at 7552. Down over 400pts.
Oil is below $50 a barrel.

I am not being a dooms dayer.

Awareness is where one can learn and grow.

December is said to be worse due to a poor projection for retail.

I want everyone to do well.

jean; November 20, 2008 4:29 PM
tmess2 said...: The conservatives are also blaming Obama for the EPA's very belated global warming regulations even though the regulations are mandated by a U.S. Supreme Court decision in a case brought by (among others) the then-Governors of New York (Pataki-R), Rhode Island (R), Vermont (R), California (Schwarzenegger - R), Massachusetts (Romney -R) and the Mayor of New York (Bloomberg - R).; November 20, 2008 6:07 PM
jean said...: tmess2,
You needed to capitalize and put in bold "very belated" in my opinion.

jean; November 20, 2008 6:27 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Mike in Maryland

to begin with I've told you once before don't TELL me what to do and for your info I wasn't going to say anything else but since you are being an ass I think I will. One more thing what exactly did you mean by this: To correct and append to an earlier post (grammar and spelling not corrected): If it's your normal blown up ego about my spelling I've got a suggestion [if that was your intention] don't ever correct me on my spelling it's rude or do you just like being rude.If that wasn't your intention please excuse me. AJ; November 20, 2008 7:21 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Mike in Maryland

I don't just out of the blue bring it up there are people on here that brought it up first. So I dare you blame me get off your high horse and act like a human instead a robot. AJ; November 20, 2008 7:24 PM
jean said...: karen anne,
Time for a story.

2 weeks ago it was rainy and chilly,
Yes in San Diego.
It was a Sunday and my partner did not want to walk because it looked like the heavens were going to open up, It didn't it is San Diego:)

I decided to walk and pick up some pine cones to start a fire for a nice Sunday with football and maybe some chicken wings:) Don't forget the blue cheese.

I picked up pine cones from the street in front of a house and the owner at 7am on a Sunday came out, he said to leave his pine cones so that they could germinate the small seedlings on the edge of his lawn.

The story is it ended up I was stealing pine cones and he is growing 9 more trees to be transplanted and he is going to sell them.

This really did happen on my usually happy walk on Sunday.

I was just looking for starter fuel for my afternoon fire.
Yep, as my husband says, "Only you babe."

I thought I was actually helping to clean up.
NOPE.

Just to let you know, many new trees are growing in my neighborhood.

Also to let you know, I do not walk that way anymore, a bit embarressed.

Just a light, and yes, embarressing story.

jean; November 20, 2008 7:37 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Mike In Maryland

I do notice that the men on here make grammar mistakes also I don't see you correcting them are you a male chauvinist ?!!! If it will make you feel better I'll be your grammar patrol and if I see any I'll let you know. But I will have to admit I'm not perfect like you I do miss some. { Yes I'm being a SA that seems to be the only thing you understand. AJ; November 20, 2008 7:42 PM
jean said...: OK,
Aunt Jean read my light and embarrassing story and lighten up.

Honestly, none of this is good for you to be worked up so.

I do care")

jean; November 20, 2008 7:46 PM
tmess2 said...: Jean, I can figure out how to put VERY BELATED in caps, but how do you do bold on this thing.

Though I do wonder how the conservative flat-earthers are going to scream next year when the chief sponsor of the legislation that will strengthen the EPA's authority over global warming is one John Sidney McCain III.; November 20, 2008 7:50 PM
jean said...: tmess2,
No idea on the Bold.

But I saw Indy do it.
Ask him.
At least I can give a source.

jean; November 20, 2008 7:58 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Jean

I did read your story and thought it was funny. I can understand why you were embarressed.Something similar happened to me but not over pine cones.AJ; November 20, 2008 7:59 PM
Mike in Maryland said...: tmess2,

To bold:
Type a '<', then 'b' then '>' (without all the ' and other characters).

Then after you type the characters you want to bold:
Type a '<', then '/', then 'b', then '>'.

To italicize, do the same as above, but substitute an 'i' instead of a 'b'.

Remember to open with a '<', the command of 'b' or 'i', the '>', and to close with the command, but with a '/' before the command character.

I hope the above makes sense.

Mike; November 20, 2008 8:01 PM
Independent Voter said...: tmess and jean - here is a website that instructs how to do html tags.

On this site it only accepts bold (b), italic(i) and links(a).

http://home2.btconnect.com/tipiglen/links2.html; November 20, 2008 9:16 PM
jean said...: Indy,
Thanks and Mike in Maryland also.

Indy,
If you read earlier posts.
Do not collect pine cones to start a fire.
Buy a starter lot:)

jean; November 20, 2008 9:19 PM
Independent Voter said...: LOL Jean, I read that and I just started shaking my head because that is something that would happen to Bill and I. Something you may consider for the future is make your way down here toward Balboa Park (off of 6th Ave) and collect a bunch of them. They smell so much nicer than a "starter" log.; November 20, 2008 9:21 PM
Independent Voter said...: WOW! Franken has Coleman's lead down to 136 votes; November 20, 2008 9:22 PM
Beryl said...: Cool about the Franken status. I want him to win not because I'm a Dem (I'm really not) but I am sick of the Repubs and remember "me, Al Franken" of early SNL.; November 20, 2008 9:34 PM
Independent Voter said...: I agree with you Beryl, but I never really watched SNL until this political cycle. I'll probably stop watching again. LOL!!!; November 20, 2008 9:43 PM
jean said...: Indy,
Actually some friends of mine have taken up a collection, they are going to Big Bear.
They are collecting so I do not end up in jail.
Boy do I feel warm and fuzzy.

Cocktail hour:)

jean; November 20, 2008 11:49 PM
Independent Voter said...: LOL Jean! I'm having a beer so I can sleep better tonight. Ya, still not sleeping well. I think it's these 3 papers I have due. I started on them the other day and have been blocked ever since.

I'm also organizing a statewide walk-out for the entire California State University system for Dec. 2nd. I created the flier today and submitted it to have it proofed to make sure there are no typos and to get the feedback about the formatting/font etc. that I used.; November 21, 2008 12:14 AM
Independent Voter said...: UGH!!!!! I originally spelled the word flyer and thought I was right, but firefox said it was spelled wrong so I went with its suggestion. UGH! I hate when I second guess myself, or let a computer second guess me.; November 21, 2008 12:28 AM
Independent Voter said...: UGH! What the hell? I looked it up in Word (flyer/flier), and now I've looked it up in dictionary.reference.com and evidently BOTH are correct. OY!; November 21, 2008 12:31 AM
Mike-in-GA said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; November 21, 2008 12:47 AM
Mike-in-GA said...: Hey Dave - I've just been observing today because it seems like the tension has still not subsided. I tried to mediate a little last night - but it started all over again today. I hate when passion gets in the way of civil discussions. I think it is good that we discuss various options we see in the projected Obama Team but it is very difficult to do. I have many things that bother me about Bill and Hillary but I have been holding back because I know how much it bothers AJ. I also think Bill Richardson will be a big plus for the Team because he represents a very large block that supported the President-Elect in large numbers this time. I wish AJ would just take a deep breath and relax and not get so wired. People have the right to share feelings about all the potential nominees as long as they do not get too disrespectful and slander them. There are always pros and cons to any nominee. You sound like you need to unwind. School is getting stressful for you? I know the feeling. When I was younger I completed a BS and two Masters Programs while I worked fulltime. Sometimes I could knock out 2-3 papers within an afternoon and other times I would get a block just as you have this time. Walk away from them and come back later - your block will go away. The beer might remove your block but you might not like later what you write after the beer :). In either case - sometimes a break works wonders. It is late here so I think I will call it a night. I early voted for Jim Martin today, but the lines were non-existent. Without a large African American vote in Georgia - he will have a tough time defeating Chambliss. Still I keep my hopes up and push as many to the polls as I can. Hope you and also Jean have a good night. Mike; November 21, 2008 12:55 AM
Mike-in-GA said...: Well I guess everyone went to sleep. Goodnight all! Have a great day tomorrow! Congratulations to the Presidential Pick winner. I missed by MO (and the NE EV). Maybe I'll do better next time.; November 21, 2008 1:28 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: It is looking more than likely Hillary will get the SoS position.

I still hope that Obama will find a place in his cabinet for Bill Richardson, Robert F. Kennedy Jr. (perhaps EPA or Interior), Kathleen Sebelius (perhaps Secretary of Commerce), and Caroline Kennedy (perhaps Ambassador to the UN.

News regarding Kerry:

www.boston.com/news/politics/politicalintelligence/2008/11/kerry_expected.html
Kerry expected to get top foreign affairs panel post
WASHINGTON -- More than three decades after he first appeared before the panel as a 27-year-old Vietnam veteran-turned-antiwar protester, Senator John F. Kerry is widely expected to be named the new chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, a position that will give him enormous influence over international relations.
The pending announcement by Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, which congressional aides said could come as early as today, would elevate Kerry to the top of the foreign policy establishment and give him a major role in shaping President-elect Barack Obama's foreign policy priorities.; November 21, 2008 1:30 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Well this is a cool mental image from a headline at HuffPost....

Obama's Inauguration: What To Expect At Washington's Woodstock

WASHINGTON'S WOODSTOCK!!! I love it!; November 21, 2008 2:09 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Article...

Washington's Woodstock

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122722409603545965.html

.; November 21, 2008 2:21 AM
Karen Anne said...: "It is looking more than likely Hillary will get the SoS position."

So much for no drama. Maybe we should start a pool as to how long before Bill does something that embarrasses the administration.; November 21, 2008 2:45 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Karen Anne-

Okay let's do it ;)

OPEN THREAD CONTEST
When will WJC make his first gaffe?

Everyone can submit one guess.
I will go first.

Leah: Before the inauguration

.
p.s. AJ- Please don't get upset. We can start a contest for Obama's first gaffe too ;); November 21, 2008 2:56 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Btw, Palin made a gaffe today too...

Sarah Palin Turkey Incident: Does TV Interview While Turkeys Are Slaughtered In The Background (VIDEO)

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/11/20/sarah-palin-holds-news-co_n_145375.html

.; November 21, 2008 3:04 AM
vwis said...: Leah:

RE HuffPo Turkey Pardon

There and also too I think she pardoned the wrong turkey.

I see no one could find a grammatical correct complete sentence spoken by her. Most of her are run-on sentences. She needs to hire some handlers if she is seriously considering a run for president. That should get the Alaskans several more jobs. I had a good dog handler that I think would do a great job. LOL!

That's all so mean isn't it, but I'd stop if she would.

Mind you after seeing that promotion of the turkey industry by her. I think I have ham instead. I really didn't need that.; November 21, 2008 4:16 AM
vwis said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; November 21, 2008 4:28 AM
vwis said...: Leah,

First WJC Gaffe, right after HRC's swearing in. The man is politically smart, I'm not so sure about female smarts though.; November 21, 2008 4:39 AM
vwis said...: Are things looking bad for the GOP:

Headline yesterday

G20 Leaders Don't Shake Bush Hand

McCain Has A Rush of People Coming to His Arizona Headquarters for Inauguration Tickets

I used the Ebay sidebar. Ran bush, I received Reggie Bush Bobblehead, Johnny Bush CD, & a Rose of Sharon Bush. I then ran Obama about 20 items to commemorate his victory.; November 21, 2008 5:05 AM
vwis said...: I've finished my peppermint tea so I'm heading back to bed for some well needed ZZZZZZZZ.; November 21, 2008 5:07 AM
suzihussein22 said...: This is an elementary way to start Friday-

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20081120/sc_afp/sciencephysicseinstein_081120235605

All's fair in politics and physics.

iv dave-You say flyer, I'll say taters, precious. :)

Gaffes? :) Don't ask Obama how many states there are. I'm just praying that this country will quit being an embarrassment Jan. 20.

leah-I'm not sure I want to watch a turkey video yet. :) I know I'm having turkey on Thanksgiving.

Ya'll Have a Great Day :D; November 21, 2008 7:28 AM
Karen Anne said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; November 21, 2008 7:57 AM
Karen Anne said...: Come on, Suzi :-) you know he meant contests :-)

Turkey video, every so often I'm really glad I'm a vegetarian.

I think Bill's first embarrassment will come out after the Inauguration. Possibly something done before the Inauguration, but likely turned up in some later news article, a la Gina Gershon. Only I think it will be a financial thing.

I'm still wondering how someone who's taken millions from foreign interests is supposed to now not be uninfluenced by that.; November 21, 2008 7:59 AM
vwis said...: Karen Anne:
Not to change the subject or anything, but I wonder how many people are doing the plant a tree for Inauguration thing?

I'm not sure that everyone understood where you were coming from. So I will repeat it.

The idea that I had was in response to; what are you doing for inauguration? I was going to celebrate at home and plant a tree. One reason was to commemorate Obama's election. The other was to remember the Bush yrs. so that we learn from our mistakes and make amends to the world. There was an interesting piece on NPR (Out on a Limb) on a study done on trees. The researched figured out that each person has 61 trees/person. She then looked at everything we use wood in. 61 isn't very high. My suggestion would increase the oxygen levels in the air and satisfy the clean air people. If everyone who supported Obama or wants to make amends for Bush planted a tree how would these oxygen levels change.

The volunteers are a great idea. What if Obama's election lead to everyone who supports him doing a simple act that changes the world. Not all problems in the world will be that simple. But what if we came together try and support each other. No one leading and everyone have equal consideration.

Thanks for your help.; November 21, 2008 8:38 AM

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