Democratic Convention Watch: Open Thread

Tuesday, April 01, 2008

Open Thread

WE'VE MOVED! Democratic Convention Watch is now at http://www.DemocraticConventionWatch.com

What is McCain's latest "senior moment", what does Obama need to do to win in November or whatever else is on your mind.

And please be excellent to one another. We do not accept name calling or any attacks on our commenters. Any objectionable comments will be deleted. Try to be civil.

Thanks!

Previous Open Thread is here

9481 comments:

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apissedant said...: jean,
My parents can't afford that. That's why I refuse to take money from them. I'm not a purist, or unrealistic. I believe I am being the most realistic, because I believe at the end of the day, you have to balance the checkbook. I don't see how you argue against that, or consider that unrealistic.; August 13, 2008 10:44 PM
jean said...: Dag,
Ap, If the elderly are not taken care of we pay for it one way or another.
That the elderly that have income so that they can take care of themselves is a plus so the system does not pay for it.
To tax that and make it less is stupid.

It is very expensive.
jean; August 13, 2008 10:52 PM
jean said...: Ok,
I will proof read next time so that it is easier to read.
jean; August 13, 2008 10:55 PM
apissedant said...: By the way, I recently did research on the tax policies of the Netherlands, since it will soon be important for me to understand them, and my wife doesn't understand them herself. What I found surprised me, in a very good way.

First off, keep in mind that they don't have state taxes, just the federal taxes. Second off, keep in mind that their tax rates include what we call payroll taxes, which do not factor into your tax rate here.

The bottom tax rate is about 32%, which goes up to 18,000 euros, or 24,000 dollars.
There are then two middle rates that are both approximately 41%, that covers about the next 40,000 euros, or about 60,000 dollars. The highest tax rate is about 50%, and goes on all income after that point.

None of these tax rates consider interest income in, which has its own special tax rate which excludes payroll taxes.
Seniors also have their own tax rate, which is between 15-20%, because they are not required to pay payroll taxes.
Payroll taxes amount to about 30% of regular income taxes, and as far as I understood, there was no cap on this, as we have in the United States (income over 90,000 has no payroll tax).
People with foreign or dual citizenship can also opt out of payroll taxes, but they will then not receive any social security benefits.

I personally like this tax system. Everyone pays their part, and it is designed to pay the government's current bills, not forward them to the next generation.

As to this conversation as a whole. I don't think anyone is insulting anyone personally, and I believe this to be an honest and intelligent policy discussion. As long as we can keep it from becoming personal, or we reach an impasse where people just cannot understand each other, I see no reason why the discussion can't or shouldn't take place.

That's just my opinion.

I'm in no way an elitist, my parents are near the bottom of the middle class, and I have been working since I was 14. I am 26 and still don't have a college degree, and my highest adjusted GROSS income was only 42,000. I just honestly believe it is important to pay my bills and pay my portion of what the government requires to operate.
The debate is really about what "my portion" or "your portion" should be. I've just found from my research, that giving the current generation a payout requires a very large increase in the next generation's tax liability.; August 13, 2008 10:57 PM
apissedant said...: jean,
Agreed, the problem is 50,000 dollars, more than the average American makes. The second issue is that the next generation of retirees will have the same problems, and there will be even less money to take care of them. Long term viability is more important than short term comfort.; August 13, 2008 10:59 PM
Dink Singer said...: apissedant:

You asked "Doesn't every single economist say that we either have to increase taxes or decrease benefits in order to keep social security and medicare solvent?"

Actually, no. Ignoring Medicare for now, the problem with Social Security is that wages as a percent of GDP keeps falling. Since Social Security is funded exclusively from wages this means that a smaller and smaller proportion of our countries total resources are being allocated to it. The solution is to encourage policies that would reverse this decline. They include raising the minimum wage and then indexing it against the GDP growth, not inflation, enforcing the existing wage and hours laws (and eliminating the loop-holes), and encouraging the growth of unions.; August 13, 2008 11:02 PM
Beryl said...: My older sister has MS and gets disability but it took over 5 years and a lot of suffering because the meds are so expensive. She does a little work to supplement (under the table) and her husband works with his own disabilities. They also have grown kids who live off and on in their house. One of them have kids who have special needs and they can't afford the care required.

I pay for cleaning in their home because my mom lives there -- paying them rent.

We all have similar stories to tell.; August 13, 2008 11:02 PM
apissedant said...: dink,
I agree with almost everything you say. The only thing I don't agree with is the beginning. Everything I have seen on social security says that we will have completely spent the 4+ trillion dollars we have in excess in our social security program by the year 2040, and we will begin spending money that is not in the account.
As far as increasing minimum wage, decreasing loop-holes, and increasing unions... yes, I completely agree. I also think decreasing free trade agreements and establishing fair trade agreements would also be required to actually protect the union jobs.; August 13, 2008 11:08 PM
jean said...: Ap,
Long term viability is important but the way things are "You gotta eat."
If you make it is fine, but if medical and long term eats it up,
you need to survive.
Our current system is stupid.
Perhaps this is the first step.
jean; August 13, 2008 11:15 PM
Dink Singer said...: aunt jean:

Maybe I misread your earlier post. If the income was mostly from Social Security there would be no tax. If a married couple both over 65 had income (not including Social Security) of $19,600 or more, they were required to file a return for 2007.; August 13, 2008 11:19 PM
jean said...: Registering kids tomorrow for school, no I did not do it earlier.
LOTS of paper work.
Have a good night.
jean; August 13, 2008 11:26 PM
apissedant said...: jean,
50,000 is still way too much. I definitely agree that the seniors should not be going without medical care, food, or shelter. I don't think anyone should, not in the wealthiest nation in the world. An across the board fix must be found. This includes increasing minimum wage, encouraging unions, establishing fair trade, some sort of universal health care, making sure benefits keep up with inflation, and most likely, tax increases. The end result should be much better than the current situation.

Oh, another thing about the Netherlands... the minimum wage is 1317 euros a month (nearly 2000 dollars) for a 38 hour work week. That is about 24,000 dollars a year, while our minimum wage provides about 12,000 a year for a 40 hour work week. Medical care is about 110 euros a month, and has 0 copay, and those with low income can get government reimbursements for both health care and housing costs.

They do have some issues with unemployment, but that isn't really a fair comparison since our nation and their nation measure unemployment in very different ways.; August 13, 2008 11:27 PM
apissedant said...: jean,
Good luck! Have fun! I have to go to bed because I have the GRE tomorrow. =/

The math section looks super easy, but I think the verbal section is going to kick my butt... :(

Ugh, I'm not an English major, why should I know what gossamer means?; August 13, 2008 11:30 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Dink

income tax office said that it had been raised to just alittle over $26,000. AJ; August 14, 2008 12:11 AM
Dink Singer said...: apissedant:

Yes, you are right the current projection from the Social Security Trustees is that the trust fund will be exhausted in 2041, but that projection is based on the assumption that the percentage of GDP going to wages and salaries will continue to fall. If we merely keep it from falling, Social Security will remain solvent.

Obama's plan to modify the cap on salary subject to payroll tax will also help. The senior tax cut will hurt since the tax on Social Security benefits is considered income to the Social Security system.

If John McCain's hare-brained medical plan is enacted (God forbid) it will greatly extend the solvency of Social Security since employer and employee health insurance payments will become taxable.; August 14, 2008 12:19 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Dink

Also something else will help if the president will quit dipping into the ss money and giving rebates to people that don't need it. Remember the rebate that people got [I'm not quite sure what year but it was 2 or 3 years ago

Guess what that came out of ss money. AJ; August 14, 2008 12:24 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Dink

let me recall that statment not all of it came from ss money just most of it. AJ; August 14, 2008 12:26 AM
Aunt Jean said...: APISSEDant and Jean

goodnight to you both. AJ; August 14, 2008 12:28 AM
Richard said...: I got my Obama hat and lapel pin in the mail today, so I will soon be stylin'. It's so great to see that everything is union made, even the buttons. I'm glad to pay a little extra for campaign materials not made in a foreign sweatshop.

With all the talk of who will be the VP nominee, I have seen surprisingly little discussion of late about when Obama will announce. Most people seem to assume that the announcement will be after the Olympics are over, but that will not be until Aug. 24, with the convention set to begin the next day and the VP acceptance speech set for Aug. 27. Three days seems like a very short time for people to get accustomed to a choice. Any ideas?; August 14, 2008 12:34 AM
Mike in Maryland said...: Breaking my rule here, but . . .

apissedant said...
jean,
The seniors in trouble are the the seniors making 50,000 a year. They are the seniors who are just getting social security income, and often have enough write offs to ensure that they have no tax liability.

AP,

It's obvious that you don't know what you're discussing.

Very obvious.

People who get Social Security do NOT earn near $50,000.

If a person made or exceeded the maximum income taxable for Social Security (currently $102,000 for 2008) for their entire time in the work force;

AND

Began receiving Social Security at
full retirement age of 66 or 67 (depending on birthdate);

AND

Worked for at least 35 years;

THEN

The (normal) maximum benefit is $25,392 per year for a single person and 1.5 times this amount for a married couple.

So, a married couple, who with one partner who earned at least the FICA maximum for at least 35 years could earn $38,088 in 2008.

That is the MAXIMUM they can normally earn. And that is predicated on at least one partner earning near or more than the maximum FICA amount for the entire time.

Most people earn about .4 of the maximum, which translates to about .5 of the maximum (about $12,000 to $13,000 for a single person, near $20,000 for a couple).

Now take into account the rates for MediCare, supplemental insurance for that MediCare, medicine costs not covered by MediCare, medical co-pays, other insurances (vehicle, home, etc.,), taxes (not including income taxes, such as sales, property, etc.), and other costs that the elderly have, you (or at least others) can see that they are NOT well off without supplemental income. And you can also see that it is damn difficult to earn $50.000 a year on Social Security alone.

Since you once again didn't know what you were discussing, and didn't take the time to research the issue at all before spouting off, I'll now go back to ignoring any and all comments you make.

Mike; August 14, 2008 12:45 AM
apissedant said...: Mike in Md,
Since you once again assumed I said something different than I said... well you're still an ass. Did I ever say seniors only make income on social security? No, in fact much of the income in question is not social security income at all. Read up on the topic you're talking about, and you'll learn that the income in question is most typically interest on investments, not social security.

Please, do everyone a favor and go back to ignoring me. Everyone else here was having an adult conversation on policy and facts. You, again, have decided to have an argument on fiction.

Where did you learn to read? Not beryl, leah, aunt jean, rich, jean, or dink claimed that I made that claim, so why did you come to this incorrect conclusion?

I won't hold my breath for your apology. ;); August 14, 2008 1:43 AM
apissedant said...: Oh, by the way, I actually researched the average social security benefits yesterday because I was fact checking a completely different argument. Here's what I found up to 2004. Also, as far as I understand, his policy is not for couples, it is for individuals. No one here even mentioned couples, so where you got that idea I don't know either. You are still a judgmental jackass that draws conclusions before having any facts. Congratulations on interrupting an otherwise intelligent discussion.; August 14, 2008 1:46 AM
apissedant said...: forgot the link
http://windowsxp-privacy.net/?id=198760094; August 14, 2008 1:55 AM
apissedant said...: Oh, and your favorite line...
You need to put thinks in reference! What post are you responding to!! GRRRR!! BLLLAAAAHHH!!! *foaming from mouth* Put your comment in context!! Show me where I said social security income receipts are up to 50,000... BLLLAAAH BLLAAAHH, you can't! bllaah 'cause I didn't! GRR!!!!

=); August 14, 2008 1:58 AM
apissedant said...: By the way... as evidence for your own retardation... I would like to point out that when Bush decided to reduce and eventually eliminate taxes on dividends... his argument centered around the fact that seniors own the majority of the stock that is receiving dividends, and are elderly are suffering and need a tax break.

Of course this was retorted with the fact that over 90% of this stock was held by seniors who were in to top few percentile of the tax bracket, and these seniors were not suffering and did not need a tax break.

http://windowsxp-privacy.net/?id=198760094

So where you got the idea that ANYONE said, or even implied that seniors were earning 50,000 a year from social security, or that social security was the only income seniors were receiving... is quite amusing.... I even mentioned pensions and retirement funds... which are of course not social security. Hmmm.... response? Apology?; August 14, 2008 2:17 AM
Karen Anne said...: ap,

I don't think you have any idea of the cost of meds, esp. thanks to the donut hole. I have one that will cost $300 a month once I hit that.

I broke my foot awhile ago and had to pay a significant amount, not covered by any insurance, for someone to help out.

Also, I live in a modest home (1200 sq ft), for which my late Mom paid $1700 in property taxes a year in 2000. I pay $13,000 in property taxes eight years later. Why? Because the town built a high school that can only be described as luxurious, with huge cost overruns. So without counting actual income taxes, I am already paying 26% of my income in taxes. Our town is cannibalizing seniors for overspending on kids.

Then the government turns around and taxes part of my Social Security, for which I have already contributed far more than I will ever receive.

And not to put too fine a point on it, people should have fewer children since the planet is already at 125% of its carrying capacity. It's nuts to give a tax credit for more than two kids.; August 14, 2008 3:05 AM
Mike in Maryland said...: AP,

The seniors in trouble are the the seniors making 50,000 a year. They are the seniors who are just getting social security income, and often have enough write offs to ensure that they have no tax liability.

Is there more than one way to interpret the above other than that you state?

Maybe like this:
Seniors in trouble make $50K/year, are getting nothing but Social Security income, and can write off enough income to pay nothing in taxes.

If you don't think that is a valid interpretation of your stated words, your mind is very closed.

Maybe if you would admit once in a while that you made a mistake in facts and/or wording, then people might again believe what you write. When you insist that EVERYTHING you write is 100% accurate, and you insist that there is no way to misinterpret what you write, then your credibility falls fast and far.

Everyone makes mistakes. Grown-ups can learn to admit those mistakes. But when you write something that can legitimately be interpreted in ways other than what you wrote, then you accuse others of twisting the facts, you show your emotional immaturity and lack of reasoned judgment.

Mike; August 14, 2008 3:46 AM
apissedant said...: Mike,
I don't know if you notice, but there was obviously a typo there, that everyone else understood, but for some reason you didn't.

Let me correct the typo.

The seniors in trouble are [not] the the seniors making 50,000 a year. They are the seniors who are just getting social security income, and often have enough write offs to ensure that they have no tax liability.

Everyone else understood it was a typo, what was your problem? Let me show you the adult way to inform someone they made a typo:

Blogger Beryl said...

No Tax on Seniors earning over $50K?
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/O/OBAMA_UNTAXING_SENIORS

In theory, I like it. Not sure how practical though.

Blogger apissedant said...

beryl,
I think you have a typo two posts up.

Blogger Beryl said...

apis/Karen,
Yep that is what I should have typed.

That is the adult way to inform someone of a typo.

The entire post would not make sense for either argument with the obviously missing [not]

I didn't bother reading the rest of your post, it is not necessary.; August 14, 2008 8:59 AM
apissedant said...: karen,
I know about the donut hole. It is several thousand dollars if I remember correctly, but still not 50,000. I also believe that the Christian method of "going forth and multiplying" is really doing more harm than good at this point.

As for the spending on the young vs. the old... well I disagree that the country as a whole is spending more on the young than he old. The schools are paid for almost exclusively by local property taxes, as you've stated, there is very little spending on a federal level for children.

As far as what you earn vs. what you put in to social security... even according to George Bush, the average person gets 1% more out than they put into the social security system. This may seem like a paltry sum, but remember that social security is "old person and disability insurance." Do you have any other insurance that pays a 1% annual yield on your investment? That is actually a pretty good yield.

Seniors receive some assistance from social security, and medical insurance through medicare. How many young people have no medical insurance? How many working adults have no medical insurance? How many adults are living off of minimum wage of just 12,000 a year, while still having to pay payroll taxes? As long as these workers are citizens, they will receive medicaid, true, but as you stated, your property taxes alone are 13,000, so how could someone earning this wage possibly afford a home and food?

By the way, if you are paying that, your community is screwing you and the other residents. That property tax level is out of control. My property tax has more than doubled here in Hampton, Va, but it went from about 800 a year to about 1600 a year. That is over 5 years, and I live in a 2200 square foot home. I'm not living large and luxurious mind you, it is a middle class neighborhood and I rent out the extra rooms. I decided when I was 21 that I wanted to buy a house that would be large enough for a family when I chose to have one, and I had the money to afford the home.

I'm not saying that many seniors don't have it bad, or that we shouldn't do something. I'm saying we can't do something at the detriment of the next generation. Many people in all age groups currently have it bad, not just seniors. To focus on seniors and increase deficit spending while still ignoring children without medical insurance and parents that can't afford their mortgage payments cannot possibly be the option.

Seniors of tomorrow will have the exact same problems that seniors of today have, but if we make this exception for seniors of today, then seniors of tomorrow will have to live with even less.

As dink and I both mentioned, social security as currently structured and with our current trajectory goes bankrupt in 2041. This policy pushes that date even closer. Once some sort of government policy is put in place to actually amend this issue, then we can exempt certain people from having to pay into the system who are having trouble affording it.; August 14, 2008 9:22 AM
apissedant said...: Leah, I did not notice a very rude post you made earlier.

This coming from a person that has sent their wife overseas to have a baby because the government over there pays more than the USA does?

LOL!

Well... this post is not only incorrect, but seriously inappropriate.
I did not "send" my wife overseas. My wife and I decided to move overseas, and I cannot go until I finish my bachelor's degree.
We are not moving overseas because the government "pays more." She was not paid by the government here, and she is not paid by the government over here. She works for a private company that pays her quite well. Her percentage of income that goes to taxes is actually quite a bit higher over there.
There are many reasons for making the move, but let me again mention the two reasons that you are incorrectly mentioning.
Eva makes more in the Netherlands because the United States does not recognize her schooling. They want her to redo all the schooling and certification she has done in order to give her a job comparable to the one she has there.
Eva's PRIVATE insurance company in the Netherlands, costs much less and covers much more than private insurance companies here. For 110 dollars a month, she has no copayments or deductibles of any sort.

Your post was not only incorrect, but very rude. I have been very mature about this topic, and not insulted anyone. Why can't you also act like an adult?

As I mentioned, I am in no way insulted by you ignoring me, so please do.; August 14, 2008 9:30 AM
apissedant said...: Mike,
You are correct, everyone does make mistakes, and grown ups do admit them. I have actually made mistakes several times here, and admitted them several times. I even apologized once to you for misinterpreting your statements as being in line with Mike and insulting me, when you were actually insulting Mike. I could have acted like you and complained that you did not properly reference your post, but instead I was mature and admitted I had read too quickly and misinterpreted.

You are the poster on here that refuses to ever admit to a mistake, not me. Show me one time where you have admitted to a mistake. I already showed you the mature way to show someone that they had made a typo, and to assume a gross misunderstanding is a seriously flawed idea. You only did this because you WANTED to find a serious flaw, not because you thought there was one.; August 14, 2008 9:33 AM
apissedant said...: At least my wife still has her sense of humor...

APissedAnt (9:52:04 AM): Leah Texas4Obama said... This coming from a person that has sent their wife overseas to have a baby because the government over there pays more than the USA does?

LOL!
eva.hamilton@hotmail.com (9:52:19 AM): lol, didnt know you sent me
eva.hamilton@hotmail.com (9:52:23 AM): thats terrible of you
APissedAnt (9:52:27 AM): yeah, apparently you're my puppy
eva.hamilton@hotmail.com (9:52:29 AM): giving me no choice
APissedAnt (9:52:33 AM): and you're living off the government tit
eva.hamilton@hotmail.com (9:52:45 AM): of course, all dutch people do
APissedAnt (9:52:50 AM): lol
eva.hamilton@hotmail.com (9:53:26 AM): i dont really work 50 hours a week, i make that up
eva.hamilton@hotmail.com (9:53:34 AM): didnt you know; August 14, 2008 9:54 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Ap

we all make typo some more than others even some slip when we prove read our post. When I get upset I make even more.

Yes there is a right way and a wrong way. In my eyes the way you did it was the correct way doing it any other way is rude. Good morning hope you had a good night. AJ; August 14, 2008 9:56 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Ap

your wife sounds like she's got a great sense of humor. LOL AJ; August 14, 2008 9:59 AM
jean said...: Ap,
Taking the kids with my huge pile of forms.
By the way,
Retarded and Retardation are both inappropriate words to use but you are getting a little better;)
jean; August 14, 2008 9:59 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Jean

I have a retarded sister [she is a sweet little thing but can be a handful at times] 85lbs and 4' 11. I some times let retarded slip. I know that's really bad. I know that I shouldn't but when I do I'm not making fun of the mentally handicapped children and adults. But I agree with you that there are words like that and a lot of other words that people shouldn't use but we are only human and make flawed [better word than stupid] mistakes. Hope you had a good night glad to see that you are posting. AJ; August 14, 2008 10:11 AM
Richard said...: AP - I wouldn't say "everyone" understood the post in which you omitted the word "not." I interpreted your post as meaning that the people in trouble were those who had just started receiving social security and who made $50k (presumably because they were making more outside income). I did not respond because it is becoming increasingly clear that you enjoy argument more than intelligent discussion.; August 14, 2008 12:00 PM
Beryl said...: http://www.suntimes.com/business/currency/1099110,CST-FIN-drugs09.article

EXCERPT:
---------
Pharmaceutical companies are increasingly hiking the prices of
specialty medications by 100 percent or more -- sometimes much more --
attracting scrutiny from lawmakers who have pledged to lower health
care costs.

Drug prices have historically outpaced those of other consumer goods, with the average price of medicines most-often prescribed to seniors rising 7.4 percent last year, according to the advocacy group AARP.

But several hundred medications have seen prices jump much, much
higher -- and their numbers appear to be growing.

Prices on 64 drugs are expected to more than double this year, up from just 22 in 2004, according to researchers at the University of Minnesota.; August 14, 2008 12:46 PM
Karen Anne said...: ap,

Thank you for informing me that my town is screwing me over in property taxes. I would have not noticed that $13,000 bill if you hadn't mentioned it.

As to: "even according to George Bush, the average person gets 1% more out than they put into the social security system." pardon me while I make a rude noise. I heard William Buckley make a similar claim, and was shocked that a supposedly intelligent, wealthy man was ignoring the effect of compound interest. Obviously he did not manage his personal pile of money.

I did some number crunching when I got the SS record on what they had taxed me for over my working life. If I had been able to keep that money and put it in a passbook savings account earning 5%, a conservative long term yield, I would have had either $250,000 or $350,000 now (I forget the exact amount.) SS pays me about $1400 a month or $16,800 a year.

Take into account that that $250,000 or $350,000 would still be earning interest of $12,500 to $17,500 a year, then even accounting for inflation, the feds will still be sitting on a huge pile of money when I die. I am sure the vast majority of people my age with consistent working histories are in exactly the same boat.; August 14, 2008 2:01 PM
Richard said...: Very much enjoying my Obama cap. Haven't worn the lapel pin out yet, but the hat has elicited positive reactions.; August 14, 2008 2:58 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Rich-

Did you get one of the 'state' lapel pins?

I've been thinking about ordering the Texas one, but having gotten around to it yet.; August 14, 2008 3:24 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Jackson Browne Sues McCain Campaign

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/08/14/jackson-browne-sues-mccai_n_118977.html

.; August 14, 2008 3:36 PM
Richard said...: Leah - no, they weren't available yet when I ordered. I didn't even know they were available! Still, I kinda like the rectangular version anyway.; August 14, 2008 3:40 PM
apissedant said...: Karen,
LOL, I know that you realize you're getting screwed on your tax bill, my point was more that it is an aberration, and definitely not the rule.

As to putting it in account and earning a 5% return... well yes that would be nice, but remember again that it is INSURANCE. Had you been injured prior to retiring, you still would have gotten money. If you died before your children turned 18, they would get money until they turned 18. If your husband didn't work, and required your income to survive, he would have gotten survivor benefits.

These are all things that no investment can promise, and they all decrease the end payout you will get if nothing goes wrong.; August 14, 2008 4:53 PM
apissedant said...: rich,
I wasn't planning to just "argue", but to explain my personal point of view and how I got there. I did not insult anyone, or making anything up in the process, just gave an alternate point of view.; August 14, 2008 4:55 PM
apissedant said...: jean and aunt jean!

HELLO!!!!

How was your day? Just to let you know, I'm going to read your response tonight when I get home. I just got done with the 4 hour long GRE, and my wife informed me that I had to treat myself and go out when I was done in order to de-stress. My friend has free tickets to the comedy club, so I'll be back at midnight my time. :)

Oh, and the test went pretty well. The verbal pretty much kicked my butt as I expected, but I knocked the quantitative out of the park. The results for the argumentative portion don't get reported for two weeks... so I'll have to wait for that score =/.

BTW, no one else cares, and they'll either assume I'm bragging or lying, so between aunt jean, jean, and Dave, I got 570 verbal and 790 quantitative. Since I'm a chem major, people tell me schools don't care too much about the verbal section, so that's good news. =) I like sharing good news. :); August 14, 2008 5:00 PM
Richard said...: AP - your GRE scores were almost exactly opposite of mine (I think I had 780 verbal). But since I was going to graduate school in classical languages the verbal was much more important for me. ;-); August 14, 2008 5:05 PM
jean said...: Ap,

GOOD JOB!!!!!!!!
Enjoy your night at the Comedy Club.
I know you are cheap so bring a flask and have your friend drive;)
Have a lot of fun.
jean; August 14, 2008 5:40 PM
Karen Anne said...: Re: "remember again that it is INSURANCE. Had you been injured prior to retiring, you still would have gotten money. If you died before your children turned 18, they would get money until they turned 18. If your husband didn't work, and required your income to survive, he would have gotten survivor benefits."

No kids, no husband. This is a pile of money they have taken on the off chance I'd be disabled. Plus it is not really insurance. Insurance is voluntary.; August 14, 2008 6:06 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: I hope Obama's uncle Charlie gets to go to Invesco to hear Obama's acceptance speech!

http://www.wtopnews.com/?nid=213&sid=1445062; August 14, 2008 6:26 PM
Beryl said...: Nice article, Leah. His great-uncle sound like a cool guy and is a hero!; August 14, 2008 6:45 PM
Independent Voter said...: I'm not sure if everyone is already aware of it or not, but there WILL be a roll call vote at the Democratic National Convention WITH Hillary Clinton's name being a part of the roll call vote.

As we all stated the other day, I think this could be good for the Democratic Party but could also turn very ugly. I just hope that everyone acts like adults at the convention and that it doesn't turn into a floor fight.; August 14, 2008 7:03 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: There are two PUMA people on Countdown stirring up some $hit. They say that HRC in the roll call isn't ENOUGH!

The PUMAs and the other proClinton antiObama groups are delusional.

They did say on Countdown that the Hillary campaign has issued a statement that said that 'they do not support PUMA' ....; August 14, 2008 7:09 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: HA!

Now the truth comes out!

Last week on Countdown someone said PUMA had raised 6 million dollars. Today Murphy (the founder of PUMA) said that they have raised only $50,000.

So - PUMA is NOT going to be a force to be reckoned with!

I wish the media would stop giving PUMA free airtime.

Obama/Sebelius '08; August 14, 2008 7:15 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: A little info regarding Murphy from wiki...

Darragh Murphy created the Puma PAC in June 2008.[7] She says that the immediate goal of her website is "to let the party know, let the leadership know that millions and millions of us are not going to support [Obama]. That we believe the nomination process was flawed beyond belief, that is was unfair and biased."[2] According to one reporter who interviewed her, "Murphy ... believes that the only way to save the Democratic Party at this point is to destroy it. Mr. Obama must lose, and his supporters must be purged."[21]

------------

WE MUST DESTROY PUMA!
Obama/Sebelius '08; August 14, 2008 7:30 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Ap congrats I knew you would do good. Have fun tonight and catch you later. AJ; August 14, 2008 7:36 PM
Karen Anne said...: Psst, Leah, photos -

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/08/13/obamas-hawaiian-vacation_n_118677.html; August 14, 2008 7:45 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Karen Anne-

And here is a GREAT photo of Obama at the beach last year - he sure doesn't look too skinny in this one!

http://www.quest-online.com/NewFiles/images/Obama_Beach.jpg

.; August 14, 2008 7:50 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Karen Anne nice photo's with Obama and his family AJ; August 14, 2008 8:00 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: The front of this flyer is GREAT:

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/08/14/labor-organization-looks-to-paint-mccain-as-elitist/

too bad it is going out to only 50,000 seniors!; August 14, 2008 8:02 PM
Beryl said...: "I wish the media would stop giving PUMA free airtime."

AGREED! There was absolutely NO reason for MSNBC to have them on today. I'm so sick of them that I turned it off. I'm not letting their garbage enter my head anymore.; August 14, 2008 8:31 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Beryl-

Well Countdown did call Murphy out on the fact that she donated money to McCain in the last election. Also the fact that NOTHING will appease the PUMAs was also brought out in the open. So, I think in a way it was good to have them on there today - to show them for what they are: Enemies of the Democratic Party.

And I did like the fact that the moderator read the statement from the Clinton camp that they DO NOT support the PUMAs. That was the first time I've heard anything said in public against the PUMAs from the HRC folks.; August 14, 2008 8:37 PM
Beryl said...: Yes! I'm glad that Hillary is distancing herself from PUMA. PUMA is an enemy to the Democratic Party and to America, as far as I'm concerned.; August 14, 2008 8:46 PM
Vicki in Seattle said...: I knew she had a good head on her shoulders.; August 14, 2008 9:09 PM
Independent Voter said...: WOW! What the F is wrong with the FAA and the airline that operates Obama's plane? Remember the issue they had that they made the emergency landing in St. Louis last month? Well, evidently according to tapes from the cockpit to the tower have now been released and the pilot had reported control-ability issues and they were having difficulty keeping the nose of the plane up.

Why would they NOT report that to Obama and that there was no "emergency". Even the pilot declared it an emergency and requested crash landing staff standing by.; August 14, 2008 10:06 PM
Beryl said...: Baracky II http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4fNgA5xLxao

I gotta tell you. This video actually makes me want to see HRC on the ticket! LOL!; August 14, 2008 10:09 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: WOW Thanks Beryl for the Baracky II link!

I love it!

Obama/Sebelius '08; August 14, 2008 10:35 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Obama Bodysurfs in Hawaii (New Photos)

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/08/14/obama-bodysurfs-in-hawaii_n_119070.html

.; August 14, 2008 10:38 PM
apissedant said...: karen,
Insurance is not necessarily voluntarily. Most states require car insurance, and I believe Massachusetts requires health insurance. Hillary Clinton's proposal also would have required health insurance, and many nations require that all citizens pay for health insurance. The government also requires employers to pay workers compensation insurance and unemployment insurance.
Lenders also require that borrowers insure any items that they take a loan on. This last one is not exactly the same, but all of it has the same purpose. All of these mandatory insurance policies are to prevent either the government or a company from having to pick up the check if your life goes to hell in a hand basket.; August 14, 2008 11:24 PM
apissedant said...: jean and aunt jean,
Thank you very much! I hope all is well on your end too!; August 14, 2008 11:29 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Beryl

I really like that video!!!!!

Hi AP how are you doing did you have a good time tonight and chilled out? AJ; August 14, 2008 11:51 PM
apissedant said...: aunt jean,
Yup, it was actually a good show tonight. Normally the free shows aren't very good. And tomorrow I have to go in for my first lab meeting, so pretty soon I'm actually going to have stuff to do again. I can't wait. :); August 15, 2008 12:06 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Ap

time goes by much faster when you are kept busy. AJ; August 15, 2008 12:14 AM
Aunt Jean said...: AP
have you watched the video yet? It's so funny I really liked it. AJ; August 15, 2008 12:16 AM
apissedant said...: No, I haven't had a chance yet. I'll check it out tomorrow before I go to bed. Now I have to say goodnight, so I can wake up on time. ;)

Have a good night!; August 15, 2008 12:33 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Ap goodnight! sweet dreams. AJ; August 15, 2008 12:35 AM
apissedant said...: rich,
LOL. I don't know how you possibly score that on verbal. I had no idea what a lot of those words were, and there is absolutely no way to study for that except reading a dictionary I guess. Well, at least I can still communicate effectively as long as I proofread my posts. ;)

With as much trouble as I've had with English, I'm terrified of trying to learn Dutch next year. I wish I had have the language skills my wife has, and she doesn't even realize how smart she is.; August 15, 2008 2:04 AM
suzihussein22 said...: Ahh, I just love getting sand in my...shoes...and watching the sunrise over the ocean. It's been gorgeous...just popping in...helping make bouquets and tiki torches. I'm in good company...not as many close-minded ultra conservatives here...except for the father-in-law libertarian that came up with us.; August 15, 2008 8:15 AM
suzihussein22 said...: Doesn't it sound like this evangelical endorsed Obama?-

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/08/rick-warren-wou.html; August 15, 2008 8:30 AM
jean said...: suzi,
So glad you are having a good time.
RELAX.
Levity;)
Now on a "OH CRAP" mode.
Rice just declared for Russian to leave Georgia IMMEDIATLY.
Georgia signed a cease fire agreement and let us see what Russia will do.
jean; August 15, 2008 11:44 AM
Beryl said...: From Obama Action wire:

http://my.barackobama.com/unfit4publication
http://my.barackobama.com/page/speakout/unfit

Please click on the 2nd link and send your email to the editors. It is easy.; August 15, 2008 11:57 AM
Richard said...: AP - Do they still have those damned logic puzzles? I couldn't stand those! "Amanda, Beth, Candice, and Denise study English, French, Geography, and History..." I think it's the same reason I struggle with Sudoku. Now give me an NYT crossword, and I'm right at home...; August 15, 2008 1:55 PM
apissedant said...: rich,
Not exactly. They changed that section into a worded argument version. There is a 45 minute section where they give you a one sentence argument, and you have to defend, attack, or qualify the argument. Then there is a 30 minute section where they show a one paragraph argument. You have to analyze the argument by stating what parts of the argument aren't necessary, what things they should add to the argument, and things like that. I think I may have accidentally implied there were more than 7 continents in that portion, I can't quite remember. I was a bit nervous and I was writing at hyper speed, so I think I might have stated something a bit silly. Not sure, I guess I'll find out in two weeks.; August 15, 2008 2:32 PM
apissedant said...: I also misspelled Madame Curie Maddam Curre... lol, I need my spell check! I'm not sure why I even felt the need to mention her, but it made sense at the time.; August 15, 2008 2:44 PM
apissedant said...: That was a really cute video... and I love the Thomas Paine quote at the end of it. :); August 15, 2008 2:54 PM
Richard said...: AP - that sounds much more reasonable than those logic games. Seems I was born too soon!; August 15, 2008 3:30 PM
apissedant said...: rich,
I dunno, I like logic games, but I like arguments too, so I guess I don't care one way or the other. Someone with better English skills (like you) would probably like the written version better though.; August 15, 2008 3:36 PM
Karen Anne said...: Beryl,

Really nice video.; August 15, 2008 4:40 PM
Beryl said...: oreo,
Take out the trash please.; August 15, 2008 8:15 PM
Beryl said...: Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama '08; August 15, 2008 8:16 PM
apissedant said...: why do they have the big foot boys on countdown?; August 15, 2008 8:59 PM
Beryl said...: Slow news day. Obama needs to return from vacation.

I can't believe McLame who is "acting as if" after complaining about Obama. Heck, that crazy man may start WWIII without even being elected.

McCrazy is such a warmonger. Never won a war but talking about "winning" a war that should not have been waged.; August 15, 2008 9:05 PM
apissedant said...: I agree beryl. Hopefully America will see him for what he really is.; August 15, 2008 9:07 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Beryl-

Senator Obama has returned to the main land today.

Obama and McCain will be on TV tomorrow with an evangelical minister/moderator. Obama and McCain will both be questioned for one hour.

CNN and MSNBC will be covering the interviews. I'm not sure who else will be airing it.; August 15, 2008 9:27 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: A decent article on FoxNews regarding the end of Obama's vacation:

http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/08/15/obama-honors-mother-in-hawaii-as-vacation-ends/; August 15, 2008 9:30 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: More NEW Obama photos including The grave of his grandfather, Stanley Dunham, and the flowers left by the Obama family.

http://embeds.blogs.foxnews.com/2008/08/15/obamas-hawaii/; August 15, 2008 9:36 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Great video showing McCain being an elitist - and some of his homes are mixed into the video:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/08/15/mccain-critics-continue-t_n_119127.html

.; August 15, 2008 9:45 PM
Beryl said...: "Obama and McCain will be on TV tomorrow with an evangelical minister/moderator. Obama and McCain will both be questioned for one hour"

Yep. I heard and plan to be planted in front on my set with popcorn. It should be good.

I'm trying to reconcile how the Evangelicals can support McCain:

1. Cheated on his first wife.
2. Dumped her for a rich, new, younger woman.
3. Cheated on 2nd wife (not proven -- yet)
4. Made inappropriate jokes about women using profanity.
5. Offered up his wife to participate in a topless contest.; August 15, 2008 10:24 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Reposting these links to keep everyone cheery and in the mood:

Baracky II

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4fNgA5xLxao

Yes We Can

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jjXyqcx-mYY

Time For Some Campaigning'

http://www.jibjab.com/originals/time_for_some_campaignin

OBAMA '08; August 15, 2008 11:49 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: The Commander in Chief Test

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mgF39TRCPPE

OBAMA '08; August 16, 2008 12:01 AM
tmess2 said...: The presentations at Warren's church is real big.

The older generation of evangelicals (exemplified by Dodson, Fallwell, and Robertson) put a lot of emphasis on abortion and homosexuality less on other sins.

A lot of the younger generation follow the ideas of Warren which, while not completely minimizing the issues of the elder generation, also emphasizes the obligation set forth in the gospel to feed the hungry, shelter the homeless, and take care of the sick. They also place a lot of emphasis on stewardship of the environment.

While Obama will not get a majority of evangelicals, if he does well at Warren's church, the margin among evangelicals could be a lot closer than the talking heads and the trolls are estimating.; August 16, 2008 1:40 AM
Beryl said...: tmess,
I totally agree with you.

Feeding the hungry, sheltering the homeless, caring for the sick, widows, & orphans and good stewardship of the environment are carried out by the "Bleeding Heart Liberals" in the Democratic party.

The Repubs did a remarkable job convincing the older evangelicals that they have a monopoly on the faith because of their focus on the "sex sins" and abortion. All the while, they ignored the primary commandment -- love your neighbor as yourself.

This was underscored on Hardball yesterday. The Repug said that if one thing in the book is true, it has value. When the host asked him if he felt a book should be published about HIM with mostly lies and one truth, he emphatically said NO.

Amazing.; August 16, 2008 2:14 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: It appears that John McCain gets his forgetfulness (or lying) from his mother!

Roberta McCain denies lawsuit against son's ex-wife

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/08/16/roberta-mccain-denies-lawsuit-against-sons-ex-wife/#more-12819

.; August 16, 2008 12:19 PM
Beryl said...: The apple didn't fall far from the tree.; August 16, 2008 5:59 PM
Beryl said...: The stage is set
http://www.theage.com.au/us-election-2008/the-stage-is-set-20080816-3wr0.html?page=-1; August 16, 2008 6:05 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Beryl-

Hillary has said that she is voting for Obama at the convention - I am hoping that in her speech she says something like "I am fully supporting Senator Obama and casting my vote for him and I would like all of the delegates here to do the same." I know that that is wishful thinking, but a person can dream ;); August 16, 2008 6:13 PM
Beryl said...: DNC Warehouse "Concentration Camp" Uncovered By Reporters

http://www.prisonplanet.com/dnc-warehouse-concentration-camp-uncovered-by-reporters.html

I love it. I live less than 20 miles from the Colorado Convention Center and I want the crazies corralled.; August 16, 2008 6:14 PM
Beryl said...: I agree, Leah. I'm taking Hillary at her word.

A lot those who want to believe that Obama can't win are banking on the polls. As you know, those polls landline dependent. Most of the Obama supporters under 35 don't have landlines so they aren't polled.

If those who are over 35 vote in the numbers we need and expect, Obama will win nicely.; August 16, 2008 6:20 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: McCain to Crash Obama's Party
Will run ads during breaks of network DNC coverage

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2008/aug/15/mccain-to-crash-obamas-party/

----
The decision breaks political tradition.
.; August 16, 2008 6:49 PM
Beryl said...: Ugg! Not surprising and I expect the Obama campaign to return the favor during the RNC convention. ;)

Our ads will be far better though.

They need to tie McCain directly with the Iraq war and the likelihood of WWIII.; August 16, 2008 7:08 PM
apissedant said...: beryl,
How about replaying clips from old Republican conventions, where they said they made a bunch of crazy assertions that all haven't come true? Make sure everyone knows this is the same old war mongering... and that the last war mongering just less us worse for the wear.; August 16, 2008 7:13 PM
Karen Anne said...: Heh, heh :-)

http://www.236.com/news/2008/08/16/so_you_think_you_have_a_clinto_8186.php; August 16, 2008 7:22 PM
Beryl said...: OOOO - that article was really wrong. Why publish that now when we are trying to mend fences?

I was at the beauty salon today (gotta rid those pesky gray ladies) and the debt came up. Most of the women there didn't like the idea of a woman not handling her finances better.

Nuff said on that.

On with the faith forum. If you are a Christian - PRAY FOR OBAMA!!!; August 16, 2008 7:33 PM
Karen Anne said...: I went looking for the VP thread but it seems to be the old Open thread... puzzled.

Anyway, HuffPost is saying Wes Clark will not be at the convention so it seems he can be scratched from the VP list.

Just as well. I haven't forgotten the Clintons got him to run to help derail Howard and leave 2008 open for Hillary.; August 16, 2008 7:42 PM
Beryl said...: "Just as well. I haven't forgotten the Clintons got him to run to help derail Howard and leave 2008 open for Hillary. "

I didn't know this. I supported Dean and he was the first candidate for whom I donated any money. It wasn't much ($100) but a first for me.

Where is the proof of this claim? I hate to believe things without infallible proof.; August 16, 2008 7:45 PM
Karen Anne said...: Aghh. It's something in my brain from that campaign. Where I learned it, I do not know. I supported Howard, too.

I went looking on the web just now and found this, not that I like quoting Safire:
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9901E7D81E3AF931A1575AC0A9659C8B63

It's no secret that Howard and the DLC (All Clinton All The Time) were at each other's throats.

If you watched that Convention, you maybe remember Hillary and Chelsea laughing when Howard got a standing ovation. 2008 is poetic justice.; August 16, 2008 8:09 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Karen Anne-

The link to the VP thread is at the left top of the page.
It is still the VP thread but we used it for a day or so as the Open Thread when DCW changed the format (before we came back to this format). If you go there and go back a bit you will find the original VP comments. Hope that helps.

____

CNN is streaming the OBAMA McCAIN interviews LIVE.; August 16, 2008 8:18 PM
Beryl said...: Obama is doing a fine job at the Faith forum on CNN. He properly defined what it means to be a Christian!

The audience and me were doing the happy dance with his responses.

Let's see how well Mc(I don't want to talk about my faith because I'm of a different generation) Cain does with the same questions.; August 16, 2008 8:45 PM
apissedant said...: Was John McCain guessing on what Justice Stephens name was? Does he know who our Supreme Court justices are?

Oh, and did you know he was a prisoner of war in Vietnam?; August 16, 2008 9:27 PM
apissedant said...: Did John McCain really just complain about Congress not spending enough time at work? Does he even remember what the Senate floor looks like?; August 16, 2008 9:35 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: War war war.. John McCain can always turn a question around in order to talk about war.

It seems to me on some of the questions McCain has a too quick and too long response, like he might have already have known what the questions were going to be.

Also, McCain seems to be tossing out parts of his stump speech, whereas Senator Obama was answering the question on more of a personal thoughtful way.

I think McCain has said 'My Friends' about 12 times already...; August 16, 2008 9:40 PM
apissedant said...: Agreed Leah.

I can't believe that at least 40% of Americans will vote for that man.; August 16, 2008 9:53 PM
Beryl said...: He admitted he failed in his first marriage. What about the cheating?

OK, he believes life begins at conception. Fine. Bush believed the same thing and abortions didn't slow down a bit. You are willing risk the life of a mother by not allowing an abortion for medical reasons?

He really makes me sick. I wanted to gag when he talked about not wanting to raise taxes on anyone -- including the rich. He is not going to go against his base -- THE RICH. Rich is over $5 million a year? Well, duh, but what about those making over $250K.

I equally choked when he talked about evil and chasing down Bin Ladin. Why did he vote to waste thousands of lives in Iraq instead of going after him 6 years ago?

Georgia -- please! He is ready to start WWIII behind this with our troops tied up in a place where they should not be. He going to milk the Russia-Georgia conflict.

He brought up Reagan every chance he could. He is a boring jerk. He kept bringing up all of he stories. Can you imagine how many tired stories we will hear if he gets in the WH? Heck, he doesn't have to go after Bin Ladin. He just force him to listen to him talk and bore him to death.

He wants to be in every venue in America. That is true. He went to the topless and pickle-licking contests at Sturgis. Where next? X-rated movie theaters, cat houses?; August 16, 2008 9:55 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Rumor is all over the blogisphere that McCain knew the questions in advance... he even mentioned to the pastor if they were going to get to the 'judge' question later on...

It was rigged!!!

Can't wait to read the headlines tomorrow!; August 16, 2008 10:22 PM
Beryl said...: Obama was calm, cool, and thoughtful as Leah noted. He didn't depend on cliches ("my friend", "America first"). War is the #1 thing on his mind. Clearly, McCain is working out personal issues which go back 40 years. The WH isn't the place for that therapy.; August 16, 2008 10:22 PM
Beryl said...: "Rumor is all over the blogisphere that McCain knew the questions in advance... he even mentioned to the pastor if they were going to get to the 'judge' question later on...

It was rigged!!!"

I wondered about that comment also.; August 16, 2008 10:24 PM
Emit R Detsaw said...: Emit's analysis:

McCain was the better politician tonight.

Here's why.........

Politicians dodge answering the question, and answer in generalities. Seldom telling the truth, and somehow end up in a story about their past that has little or nothing to do with the original question.

LOL; August 16, 2008 10:30 PM
apissedant said...: emit,
I would agree that McCain did a better job of that, but I'm tired of that old definition of politicians, and I'm hoping the rest of America is too.

The analysis after the questioning was worse than John McCain's answers though. Pat Buchanan... ugh...; August 16, 2008 10:37 PM
Emit R Detsaw said...: Saw Pat was on MSNBC so switched it over to CNN for a bit. Liked it when they played the O and M answer back to back. Really showed the difference.; August 16, 2008 10:45 PM
apissedant said...: ahh... didn't see the CNN coverage. Pat just said that Obama was shifty and didn't answer questions, and McCain was clear and concise and passionate.

I didn't see passion, I saw senility.

"I don't wanna tax anybody! The government should just give everyone everything without spending any money! We need to go to war, and balance our budget, give funding to churches and private churches, and do it all without spending money or charging taxes! We're the government after all, we can just print the crap."

That's my interpretation of John McCain's economic policy as stated tonight.; August 16, 2008 10:52 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: There was also a three part question that the pastor asked and John McCain answered 'Yes and yes and get rid of the bad teachers..' BEFORE the question was asked!; August 16, 2008 10:52 PM
Beryl said...: You know the deck is going to be stacked. McCain isn't even qualified to RUN for president, let alone serve.

We have to face the fact that the majority of McCain supporters are not the brightest bulbs on the tree. They are not thoughtful and don't want a thoughtful POTUS. Obama needs to talk to the stupid to get elected.; August 16, 2008 11:01 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Oh my goodness....

I was just thinking about this

Obama and McCain were supposed to have ONLY shook hands and Obama pulled McCain towards him for a hug and patted McCain's back!

I betcha Obama was feeling his back to see if McCain had one of those contraptions under his suit that pick up the radio waves (for the whispered answers) like Bush had during one of Bushes debates!!!; August 16, 2008 11:48 PM
tmess2 said...: Didn't see much of McCain's part, but think Obama did ok for the target audience.

Obviously, the single issue voters are going for McCain or staying home. For those willing to have a broader view of what issues should matter to Christians, I think Obama put some fears to rest and did a good job representing a centrist version of Christianity that Evangelicals could work together with.; August 17, 2008 12:18 AM
Beryl said...: tmess2
I agree.

It really bothered me the way McCain answered the "what to do with evil" question. He will never admit that some of the things our government has done was evil.

It is not evil to lie our way into a war that killed a million people? I think so. Evangelicals need to see that. Obama carefully touched on that oh so delicately.

Patriotism doesn't mean that you agree with everything your country does. True patriotism results in improving your country.; August 17, 2008 12:32 AM
Aunt Jean said...: This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.; August 17, 2008 12:44 AM
Aunt Jean said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; August 17, 2008 12:47 AM
Matt said...: All, keep it clean, and no personal attacks, or your posts will be deleted.; August 17, 2008 1:02 AM
Aunt Jean said...: karen anne

my post related to your post at 7:22. It was tasteless and uncouth [meaning: uncultured, crude, boorish] of you.Is that how you get your fix for the day by getting people mad. AJ; August 17, 2008 1:08 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Matt there is people on here that has been asked at least a dozen times to lay off the Clintons politely but they insist on putting garbage on here just for the pure pleasure of getting people mad and to be insulting. AJ; August 17, 2008 1:11 AM
Richard said...: I thought Karen Anne's link was a clever bit of political satire and well within the bounds of appropriateness. On the other hand I found your post offensive, Aunt Jean. Using abbreviations and replacing characters in your vulgar language does not make you any less -- to borrow your term -- uncouth.; August 17, 2008 8:52 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Rich I didn't find karen anne's post funny at all myself I thought it was in poor taste. But it doesn't surprise me that you find it offensive considering you can be uncouth also.She knew that I would find it offensive so why would she post it. I'll tell you why because she knew it would make some people mad on this post.

One more thing some actions or words can sound vulgar besides curse words so please don't preach to me about vulgarity. AJ; August 17, 2008 9:31 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Rich

one more thing I don't post crap that would make someone mad just for the pure pleasure like some people on here so as far as you calling me [or insinuating] that I'm uncouth.If you really think that way you are suffering from lunacy. AJ; August 17, 2008 9:43 AM
Beryl said...: AJ,
I agree that folks know how to press your buttons. I'm guessing that it is not limited to this blog. Folks will continue pressing them as long as you react.

I'm not saying that Anne is a troll -- she isn't as her post was a legitimate web article. However, I suggest you should treat her as a troll. Just ignore posts that irritate you.; August 17, 2008 9:56 AM
Beryl said...: Good article with ad for a Sunday:
http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/08/15/1269267.aspx; August 17, 2008 9:57 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Beryl

I don't consider that a legitimate web site that would print that trash. So I went to a site that called Obama an elite and that was one of the nice words.Did I post that link NO because it's not respectful or considerate of others.So I feel that can show me the same respect.{Besides all of it was garbage on Obama

If I was to send a link trashing Obama I would have 99% on here calling me a racist or worse.

But if it's about Clinton I'm suppose to ignore them.Not likely I will call them on it everytime.

The people that send trash is what is wrong with this world and why we can't live in peace.

All they know how to do is cause discord and anger. AJ; August 17, 2008 10:16 AM
Aunt Jean said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; August 17, 2008 10:48 AM
Richard said...: Good for some laughs, despite the bad photoshopping: Obama's VP Choice Leaks.; August 17, 2008 11:10 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Beryl

I still believe that religion has no place in politics. I have seen [for the sake of religion] cause more discord and bias. Then ever was in one group.

My ex sister-in-law was a piece of work [that's putting it very very mildly] and she was a very religious person.It was her fault that her adopted son got shot and killed. Not that she pulled the trigger but she might of well have.

I have a niece that was truly a joy when she was younger. But now she's a religious freak. She turned her back on people that has truly loved her and excepted the good and bad.

Now she treats them with distain and the ones that treated her like crap she hugs to her. She has become so judgemental. All for the sake of religion.

Don't get me wrong I believe in God and I hold him close to my heart. That is why I don't believe that religion has any place in politics. There are to many self righteous people that claim to have religion in their heart and all they are is a bunch of creeps. AJ; August 17, 2008 11:18 AM
Beryl said...: Read "The Candidate We Still Don't Know" by Frank Rich and then the Corsi article below.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/17/opinion/17rich.html?th&emc=th

Here is an excerpt from the former in the NY Times (Cindy and John McCain have not been vetted by the press) which sets up the latter reading:

"McCain has even prompted alarms from the right's own favorite hit man du jour: Jerome Corsi, who Swift-boated John Kerry as co-author of "Unfit to Command" in 2004 and who is trying to do the same to Obama in his newly minted best seller, "The Obama Nation."
Corsi's writings have been repeatedly promoted by Sean Hannity on Fox News; Corsi's publisher, Mary Matalin, has praised her author's "scholarship." If Republican warriors like Hannity and Matalin think so highly of Corsi's research into Obama, then perhaps we should take seriously Corsi's scholarship about McCain. In recent articles at worldnetdaily.com, Corsi has claimed (among other charges) that the McCain campaign received "strong" financial support from a "group tied to Al Qaeda" and that "McCain's personal fortune traces back to organized crime in Arizona."
As everyone says, polls are meaningless in the summers of election years. Especially this year, when there's one candidate whose real story has yet to be fully told."

When Corsi wrote this in February, he didn't believe Barack Obama would be the Democratic nominee. LOL

McCain fortune traced to organized crime -
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=57354; August 17, 2008 12:08 PM
Vicki in Seattle said...: Interesting. perhaps Obama is stepping back to see if McCain makes any significant errors.

also, Obama needs to be prepping for the convention about now - making a VP decision (if not already). and resting up for the big fight after the convention.

crazy like a fox, that Obama is!; August 17, 2008 1:35 PM
Richard said...: What do you folks think about Obama taking in a NASCAR race? I know he's going to sponsor a Nationwide car later, but maybe it would be a good idea to be seen slumming with a hundred thousand or so blue-collar NASCAR fans. Seems to me that Michigan today would have been a great opportunity.; August 17, 2008 3:08 PM
jean said...: rich,
I have never been or will be a fan of NASCAR.
To use the term "slumming" with the blue collar workers I find quite offensive.
What are you trying to do using that kind of language?
Unity? I don't think so.
Someone different than you and condemning them?
What are you thinking?
jean; August 17, 2008 3:41 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Vicki-

I have full confidence that Obama and his team know what they are doing, how to do it and when to do it. It's been pretty exciting so far and I think that it is going to get even better :)

As far as McCain and his team there has been alot of disorganization over there and they seem to be just tossing stuff out to see what sticks :)

Obama/Sebelius '08; August 17, 2008 4:17 PM
Beryl said...: NASCAR is a good idea, IMO. After all, he mentioned them as supporting proper tire inflation. NASCAR fans are diverse but has a large number of blue-collar members which is also good for him.

I don't like the word "slumming" either.

The Republicans and other anti-Obama crowd want to paint our candidate as an elitist. Barack and Michelle are both of humble beginnings like Bill Clinton. They JUST paid off their student loans for goodness sakes. More Democrats should grasp and appreciate that.; August 17, 2008 4:25 PM
Vicki in Seattle said...: I know, Leah! I got discouraged last night seeing the MSM "analyze" the interviews. I get so tired of thinking that maybe I'm the only sane one around.

VVBG!!! ;-); August 17, 2008 5:05 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: I was watching the analysis on CNN and I was not very happy with Candy Crowley and Gergen.

Later in the evening CNN did state that McCain voted for the four supreme court justices that he said he would not have appointed.

Today I read where McCain was wrong about the two female suicide bombers that had 'down syndrome' - the did not have down syndrome.

Also today I have read other articles that have praised many things that Obama said - so maybe it will take a day or two for the the pundits to re-analyze what really happened.

Since it was a Saturday night many people weren't at home watching TV and there were many people that were watching the Olympics. Also, I have read many of the 7,000 comments on HuffPost and some on CNN. There are alot of people out there that think Obama did very well and that McCain was just using the forum as a stump speech. I've seen comments from Independents that say that they are now supporting Obama and even some republicans. So we might have to wait a week to see if the forum has any affect on the polls.

One thing to remember is that a week from now when the convention starts no one will be thinking about last night's forum any longer :); August 17, 2008 5:16 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: A new Pew Research survey breaks down the partisan divide of cable news viewer:

CNN: 51% Democrats, 18% Republicans, 23% independents

MSNBC: 45% Democrats, 18% Republicans, 27% independent

Fox News: 33% Democrats, 39% Republicans, 22% independents

-----

Seems to me the Fox numbers can't be right. I would think that for Fox there would be alot more Republicans and alot fewer Democrats. If the numbers are correct then Fox is really doing a number on giving misinformation and propaganda to the Dems that watch Fox!; August 17, 2008 5:23 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: The Candidate We Still Don’t Know (McCain)

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/17/opinion/17rich.html?_r=1&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss&pagewanted=all&oref=slogin

-----
I wonder if this could be the start of the news media's focus on exposing the McCains (one can only hope).; August 17, 2008 5:35 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Hey guys has anyone seen the video
hat Paris Hilton put out because McLame used her name it's pretty good:

http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/64ad536a6d

AJ; August 17, 2008 5:41 PM
Karen Anne said...: (Don't read this AJ.)

Leah, the Faux News looked odd to me too, but then I got to thinking maybe these are the good ol boy Hillary demographic.; August 17, 2008 5:47 PM
Beryl said...: Hey, Leah
Do you have me on ignore? I posted that Rich commentary link 5 hours ago. :o); August 17, 2008 6:01 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Beryl-

I missed your post!
Sorry ;(

Well since we both posted a link to it maybe everyone will be sure to read it :); August 17, 2008 6:26 PM
Richard said...: I apologize if anyone was offended by my use of the word "slumming." I am a NASCAR fan myself, and did not intend it to be offensive.

On another note, I saw Bill Richardson on a news program as one of two Vice Presidential short-listers asked for comments. Richardson still had his beard, so I think it's a safe assumption he doesn't expect to be campaigning soon.; August 17, 2008 6:32 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Bill Richardson campaigned today with Hillary in New Mexico (for Obama).

I do not think the VP pick will be Richardson, but I do not think his beard has anything to do with it. Actually he is better looking WITH his beard ;)

I do believe that we have had presidents and vice-presidents with beards in the past even though it's been a long time ago :); August 17, 2008 6:46 PM
Mike in Maryland said...: Is McLame now on the verge of definitely losing Colorado because of a comment on water he made on Thursday? Has he written off Colorado to try to make sure he wins Nevada, and solidify his status in his home state of Arizona?

Or maybe he's just not that bright?

"The water compact that Colorado and other upper basin states have with California and Arizona should be renegotiated."

For background and discussion, see:
McCain suggests raiding Colorado's water
By Bob Ewegen
The Denver Post

http://www.denverpost.com/opinion/ci_10218277?source=rss

Mike; August 17, 2008 6:56 PM
Richard said...: Campaigning for someone else and campaigning for oneself are quite different things. While I don't disagree Richardson looks better with his beard, there is just no way one can run for President or Vice President with a beard.; August 17, 2008 6:57 PM
Richard said...: By the way, the last president with facial hair was Taft. Apparently the last VP with facial hair was Coolidge's. In any case, that was long before the television age.; August 17, 2008 7:03 PM
Beryl said...: "The water compact that Colorado and other upper basin states have with California and Arizona should be renegotiated."

I hope this kills him in my state. I'm so sick of his ads and wish we could ban them from our airways.

Another note:

On MTP today, a lot of talk about Biden being named the Veep. Andrea Mitchell stated that he would kill anyone in a debate

We need someone to put that phony, Romney in his place. Biden is old school and has a big mouth but he would be an effective attack dog. Obama just isn't going to do it (rightly so) to avoid justifying Pat's "angry black man" comments.; August 17, 2008 7:06 PM
suzihussein22 said...: I've had 12 hrs. sleep in the last 5 days. Can I just agree with everybody on this blog? I saw somebody in VA Beach that had MS DEM on their license and somebody in E TN with a bumper sticker that said YES WE CAN...very cool. I'll try to be coherent on my next post.; August 17, 2008 7:27 PM
suzihussein22 said...: I told my other half I was going to max out our donations to the GE campaign after we paid for his fall semester. He said fine honey as long as you buy me a boat first. Obama should understand.; August 17, 2008 8:13 PM
Vicki in Seattle said...: suzi - go get some sleep! we will catch you up after you've rested up.

I don't know about Biden, but the phrase "put Romney in his place" amuses me. Are we reasonably certain that Romney will be with McCain on the R ticket? If so, my momma the Obamican will be sorely tempted - she liked Romney! but she likes Obama! what to do, what to do???

btw, my parents are lifelong republicans. If I can have civil discussion with them on politics, I figure I can discuss with just about anyone. It amuses me that I have caught more flak here, that from my parents. Ever. But I think they like me. It really amused my dad that I was at my district caucus here (for Obama), while he has been at his precinct/district/state caucuses for YEARS (as a Republican).

party on, garth!; August 17, 2008 8:23 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Oh brother!

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/08/17/warren-mccain-did-not-violate-cone-of-silence/

--
So, Warren told them both the first two questions before the forum ... and McCain was NOT in the 'cone of silence' for part of the evening - he was in his car where he could be text messaged, or watch the questions and Obama's responses on a TV in the car, or watch on his I-phone, or on the computer!!!; August 17, 2008 8:38 PM
suzihussein22 said...: vicki-Thanks mom...party on...; August 17, 2008 8:50 PM
jean said...: rich,
To be clear you said "slumming" with the "blue-collar".
Do you consider yourself as blue- collar?
Going out to dinner with the family.
jean; August 17, 2008 9:00 PM
Independent Voter said...: Well after much thought, I am convinced now more than ever that within the next couple of days that Obama will be announcing Joe Biden as his running mate. I'm sorry to disappoint both Leah (who wanted Sebelius) and Aunt Jean (who wanted Clinton) on this one.

Biden sent on of his aides on the Iraq trip with Obama and now the Georgian president requested Biden's presence. I think that with the president telling McCain last week that he needed to turn his "words into action" and then requesting Biden instead of a Republican (especially any of McCain's potential VP picks) is a telling sign.

Either way, I would be happy with Biden being on the ticket. This is not to say that I don't think there are other possible picks, I'm just saying who I think it might be.

What do you guys think?; August 17, 2008 9:04 PM
Independent Voter said...: LOL - thanks jean! You would think that person would learn.; August 17, 2008 9:10 PM
suzihussein22 said...: Tsk, tsk McCain. First Miss Hilton and now-

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/7562881.stm

I'm sure the pacs will cover the tab.; August 17, 2008 9:11 PM
Independent Voter said...: Thank you Matt and Oreo. You guys rock!; August 17, 2008 9:13 PM
jean said...: Indy,
There has been an ACT OF GOD who is a very nice person;)
All kids are gone till 9pm and we are rushing out to dinner with a lot of SAKI involved. YEA.
The best part is we do not have to pick anyone up.
Only happens a few times a year.
Talk to you later.
jean:); August 17, 2008 9:14 PM
Independent Voter said...: Have a GREAT night Jean.; August 17, 2008 9:15 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Pastor Rick Warren admitted on Rick Sanchez's show this afternoon that McCain was not in the building during Obama's broadcast.

---

There is now a report that McCain showed up right before he was supposed to be on stage.

There is also a report that there was a witness that saw a TV in McCain's car.; August 17, 2008 9:21 PM
apissedant said...: Dave,
About time you come around. Where have you been?

I wouldn't have a problem with Biden. Of the people the rumor mills says he might pick, I believe Biden by far is the most personable. He is smart and experienced. There is no question in my mind to any of that. He also has the ability to punch back better than most of the other possible VP picks. For all these reasons, he seems like a good pick.
On the negative side, he is older, more experienced, and a very strong candidate himself. Typically these items aren't negatives, but you don't want a VP that outshines the nominee, and Biden has the potential to do this depending on how things unfold.
Now I think Biden is smart enough to realize this, and will probably tone it down if need be.

The last thing is that Biden does have some baggage, but I think that is survivable. Most of the baggage is very old, and he has successfully turned some of these negatives into positives in the past, i.e. on the daily show. I definitely think he could make worse choices.

For instance, I like Tim Kaine, but I never want Tim Kaine to run for President. Tim Kaine is still rather young, so he might think after the 8 are up, that it is his turn. I honestly don't think he could win a Presidential election, and I want the Dems to have more than 8 years in the saddle. We have a lot of fixing to do.; August 17, 2008 9:22 PM
Emit R Detsaw said...: If you all want to read the transcripts from the Faith Forum you can at:

http://rickwarrennews.com/transcript/; August 17, 2008 9:28 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: And here is the video in four parts of the Faith Forum:

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/08/17/did-you-miss-the-forum-catch-the-replay-on-cnn/; August 17, 2008 9:30 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Looks like Pastor Warren will have to have a press conference and come out and tell the 'whole truth' otherwise his reputation will be ruined more than it is today!

Pretty bad when a pastor lies on TV!; August 17, 2008 9:41 PM
Independent Voter said...: p'd ant - I've stopped in a few times and although there was a little back and forth last night (or this morning - can't remember and I'm not going to go back and reread it) but it wasn't all out ape sheeeeeeeeeit, so I figured I was good.

As far as Biden. I don't think he will outshine Obama, but he will definitely serve as a good candidate simply because he does fill in the gaps in foreign policy that the Republicans perceive Obama as having. The only thing I don't like about Biden being the pick is that it pulls another senator out of Congress and there is another problem, Biden is up for reelection for his Senate seat this year. Kind of like LIEberman was in 2000. So that would bring into question, does Biden run for both offices or does he just run for VP.; August 17, 2008 9:47 PM
Independent Voter said...: Leah, where did you hear that he is going to have to hold a press conference? Or are you just speculating?; August 17, 2008 9:49 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: More possible McCain cheating:

Is McCain Now Copying Solzhenitsyn?

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/politicalinsider/2008/08/is-mccain-now-copying-solzheni.html

---
If McCain keeps this up he will be run out of town in a month!; August 17, 2008 9:50 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Dave

I think Joe Biden is to OLD!!! to be vp. Just my personal opinion. It reminds me of Bush and Chaney. Sorry but it does. Besides I don't think Clinton would take VP. AJ; August 17, 2008 9:58 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: It was my opinion - I was speculating.

But Pastor Warren did admit today on the Sanchez show that McCain was not in the building. So this cone-of-silence-gate is not going to go away :)

And I think Warren is supposed to be on Larry King on Monday...

And I can't wait to hear what Keith is going to say on Monday!; August 17, 2008 9:59 PM
Emit R Detsaw said...: Leah, for your conspiracy theory...

When you pull the transcript parts, Obama's are in 12 font, McCain's are in 14 font.

LOL; August 17, 2008 10:05 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Emit -

It is not a conspiracy theory.

Pastor Warren admitted it on Rick Sanchez's show today.

Part of the story is already on www.cnn.com; August 17, 2008 10:09 PM
Independent Voter said...: OMG Emit, you are right. How funny is that? Was that an oops so that the "older" crowd don't have to use a magnifying glass to read McCain's responses?

NO I'm not saying that all older folks need glasses or magnifying glasses, well ok, maybe I am....LOL...Just kidding! I wear reading glasses.; August 17, 2008 10:13 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama '08; August 17, 2008 10:14 PM
Independent Voter said...: Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama '08; August 17, 2008 10:14 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama '08; August 17, 2008 10:15 PM
Independent Voter said...: gotcha Leah!; August 17, 2008 10:15 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: You win! :)

I'd been waiting for an hour! LOL :); August 17, 2008 10:16 PM
Independent Voter said...: Leah, I figured it was speculation, but I think you may be right. However, it may be put to rest on LKL tomorrow night. I hope that Larry King doesn't let this asshat off the hook.; August 17, 2008 10:16 PM

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