Democratic Convention Watch: Open Thread

Tuesday, April 01, 2008

Open Thread

WE'VE MOVED! Democratic Convention Watch is now at http://www.DemocraticConventionWatch.com

What is McCain's latest "senior moment", what does Obama need to do to win in November or whatever else is on your mind.

And please be excellent to one another. We do not accept name calling or any attacks on our commenters. Any objectionable comments will be deleted. Try to be civil.

Thanks!

Previous Open Thread is here

9481 comments:

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Beryl said...: "I think Joe Biden is to OLD!!! to be vp. Just my personal opinion. It reminds me of Bush and Chaney. Sorry but it does. Besides I don't think Clinton would take VP. AJ "

But Biden is only 5 years older than HRC. I don't think that is too old.; August 17, 2008 10:18 PM
Emit R Detsaw said...: Leah - I was joking.

Of course the FF was going to be a setup. The evangelicals are a conservative group. That fact that they are not fully backing the Republican candidate is kind of funny.; August 17, 2008 10:18 PM
apissedant said...: Dave, when does Fall semester start back up?; August 17, 2008 10:18 PM
Beryl said...: I hear that Nunn is the pick but at 69, he is up there.; August 17, 2008 10:22 PM
Emit R Detsaw said...: I like Biden, but....

It would set up the scenario that the Republicans are in now. Biden would probably be to old to run in 8 years so there would not be an incumbent VP running.

I like Richardson for his Foreign background as well as Administrative as Governor.

His beard is fine - smaller than mine, but don't think he needs to shave it off to be VP. ;o); August 17, 2008 10:24 PM
apissedant said...: When is the last time that the VP taking over the Presidency was actually successful in that role? Gore didn't win, Bush 41 was disliked by the public, Ford is a no brainer, LBJ refused to run in 1968 because he didn't think he could win... Keep going back, and you have Truman who was not popular enough to run again in 1952....

The last successful President who had served as VP was Theodore Roosevelt by my count. Not a good track record.

I don't want to pick my 2016 candidate now, I would like to pick it in 2016. I wish Bradley had won the 2000 nomination, but it is nearly impossible to defeat an incumbent VP in the primaries.; August 17, 2008 10:39 PM
Independent Voter said...: p'd ant - fall semester starts September 2nd. I cannot wait to get back. I want it DONE and over with.

Good job on your GRE by the way.

--------

I agree with you to an extent as far as Biden being too old. My thought about it that Biden may be the VP pick THIS time and then for the next term once Obama has finally given the American public the confidence he needs in foreign policy, Biden may step aside for someone else. But even if he doesn't then it would be a situation like what Emit has described where we don't have an incumbent VP running for the presidency in 8 years.; August 17, 2008 10:41 PM
Independent Voter said...: Not that I'm religious by any means, but if there is a "God", perhaps he/she is trying to give John Mc"Needs A"Cain a sign: John McCain has canceled a trip to Miami for a fundraiser scheduled for Sunday night because of the storm. Instead, he is flying directly from Long Beach, California, to Orlando, Florida, where he speaks before the VFW convention Monday.

Barack Obama is scheduled to be in Florida Tuesday. No word yet if the storm may affect his plans.

Ironically, McCain had his plans changed by Hurricane Dolly last month. He was supposed to go by helicopter to an oil rig off the Louisiana coast for a high-profile drilling event at the same time Obama was in Europe. But the effects of Dolly in the Gulf caused that trip to be canceled.

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/08/17/fay-beginning-to-impact-campaign-trail/; August 17, 2008 11:03 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: The story is making it's rounds... CNN, Daily Kos, 538, and now HuffPost...

Leaks in McCain's Cone of Silence?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/linda-bergthold/leaks-in-mccains-cone-of_b_119444.html

It should be all over the place tomorrow!; August 17, 2008 11:04 PM
tmess2 said...: In the past 7 election cycles, when the Presidential nominee hasn't picked the candidate who ran in second place as the VP nominee, the pick has been somewhat a surprise to folks (Mondale picking Ferraro, Bush picking Quayle, Dukakis picking Bentsen, Clinton picking Gore, Dole picking Kemp, Bush picking Cheney, and Gore picking Lieberman).

With 48 hours or so of speculation time left, any out of left field predictions as to Obama's nominee?

Will take the first flyer and say Governor Salazar of Colorado. Brings in Hispanic, Governor, and swing state.; August 17, 2008 11:05 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Since the media has talking so much about Bayh, Biden, and Kaine they have not been talking much at all about Sebelius...

So my guess is that Kathleen Sebelius will be the surprise VP pick :)

--- I'm not going to be able to talk much about Sebelius anymore after the convention unless it is her ;); August 17, 2008 11:08 PM
jean said...: Indy,

I am back and let us say GREAT;0

Turned on the tube and Womens Rowing 8, could be wrong on the correct term for the gold metal, and the Star Spangled Banner playing and just proud of those women.
Just the PT time zone when we saw it, pretty cool.
Do I watch rowing, NO, respect given, YES.
jean; August 17, 2008 11:12 PM
Emit R Detsaw said...: Leah - I still like Sebelius

Full of side notes today.

When I was in Kansas 3 weeks back I saw lots of Obama yard signs and bumper stickers. Didn't see any for McCain.

Rasmussen poll has the separation in Kansas down to 10%, was 20% a month ago.; August 17, 2008 11:13 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Updated article with video of Pastor Warren's comment from today:

Pastor Warren Contradicts Self on 'Cone of Silence'

http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2008/08/pastor-warren-contradicts-self-on-cone.html

.; August 17, 2008 11:28 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: CNN has taken their Cone of Silence article down off of the ticker and the front page link isn't linking to it anymore!!!; August 17, 2008 11:45 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Here's copy and paste of the article in case they don't put it back up!

(CNN) – Sometimes you just have to take it on faith.

Pastor Rick Warren said John McCain didn’t hear any of the questions in advance at Saturday night’s Civil Forum, even if the candidate was a little late arriving to the pre-arranged quiet room or “cone of silence.”

At the beginning of the forum at California megachurch, Warren told the crowd and TV audience, “I'm going to ask identical questions to each of these candidates, so you can compare apples to apples. Now, Senator Obama is going to go first. We flipped a coin, and we have safely placed Senator McCain in a cone of silence.”

But at 8 p.m. ET, as Warren said that, McCain was actually not in the building. He was just leaving his hotel, with his motorcade arriving at the church nearly a half hour into the event. A. Larry Ross, a spokesman for Warren, says McCain then went directly into the holding room they dubbed the “cone of silence” (in reality, a room with no TV or audio).

Some questioned whether that late arrival might have allowed McCain to hear some of the questions being first posed to Obama.

Warren told CNN Sunday evening, “we flat out asked him” if he heard any of the questions. The McCain campaign “confirmed that McCain did not hear or see any of the broadcast” in the motorcade or after he arrived, Ross said.

When asked if McCain overheard anything, Charlie Black, a McCain adviser who was with him at the time, told CNN: "We were in motorcade until 5:30 p.m. ET; then a holding room in another building with no TV."

Warren said, “I trust the integrity of both” candidates, and said he “knew they would abide by the rules.” He joked McCain may not have been in the cone of silence, but “he was in the cone of a Secret Service motorcade”.

Ross says the whole event only came about because of the relationship Warren has with both men. He said they all agreed to assure a “level field, “McCain would not hear the questions or Senator Obama’s answers.” The pastor spoke to each candidate this week, giving the general themes. Warren decided to tell them each the first two questions in advance, about the three wisest people you know, and the biggest moral failings.

For their part, an Obama spokesperson told CNN’s Mike Roselli they are not pursuing whether McCain heard any of the other questions. They say they assuming McCain had the same information they did.

Filed under: John McCain; August 17, 2008 11:47 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: New York Times

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/18/us/politics/18mccain.html?ref=politics

.; August 17, 2008 11:52 PM
apissedant said...: Dave,
Thanks for the congrats... and I completely understand your sentiments. I can't wait for these next four months to be over. Then I'll just have to start a new journey and a new fight, but at least this one will be behind me.

Leah,
What does McCain being "a former prisoner of war" have to do with his cheating? Are prisoners of war above cheating? Someone should tell that to his ex-wife.

I hate the McCain campaign.; August 18, 2008 12:06 AM
apissedant said...: jallen,
I'll forward God and the government your request to have me "deleted", but I'm not sure either entity is in the business of "deleting" people you don't like.

;); August 18, 2008 12:09 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: AP said:
Leah,
What does McCain being "a former prisoner of war" have to do with his cheating?

---------

I do not understand why you are asking me that question or what you mean.; August 18, 2008 12:22 AM
Vicki in Seattle said...: pissed ant, not sure if he/she meant to delete you, or the people of the far right.

I would never confuse the two (VBG!), although the statement was pretty ambiguous.

perhaps this person might care to clarify.; August 18, 2008 12:22 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: NEW YOUTUBE.com VIDEO

McCain Broke Pledge To Stay in 'Cone of Silence'

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xyf82YhJe-s

.; August 18, 2008 12:31 AM
apissedant said...: Leah,
The one short article you posted had McCain's spokeswoman saying that the idea of McCain, a former prison of war, cheating, was ridiculous.

I don't know why the crazy woman placed, "a former prisoner of war" in the middle of the sentence. I was wondering if you had an idea that would possibly explain her insanity, or blatant pandering.; August 18, 2008 12:40 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Beryl biden is 67 that is 7 years older than Hillary. It just doesn't seem right for the VP to be older than the president. Strange of me huh. Plus the fact that he will be 75 when the 8 years are over..

I have a very bad taste in my mouth every time Richardson's name is mentioned. Hopefully Obama won't be foolish enough to pick that backstabber. YES he is a back stabber I don't care what anybody says.

Also before you say it it's not because he endorced Obama over Hillary. So just get that thought out of your mind. AJ; August 18, 2008 12:48 AM
apissedant said...: vicki,
I wasn't 100% sure either, but either way I'm not a fan. I dislike ignorance and would love to eradicate ignorance, but not if it required "deleting" the ignorant. Education seems like a much more rational and constructive method.

By the way, did you know the people at GodHatesFags.com actually calls their protests, "love crusades"?
They bring their children and have them carry signs promoting death and murder. Those poor children.; August 18, 2008 12:48 AM
Independent Voter said...: AJ, if that is not what you were implying then what is it that makes you call him a back-stabber?; August 18, 2008 12:52 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: apissedant -

If you do not like or agree with something in an article then you can write to the author and tell them about it.

.; August 18, 2008 12:53 AM
apissedant said...: Leah,
You seem to misunderstand what I'm saying. I was commenting on a quote from the article, not the article itself. The quote was from a McCain staffer who placed a "former prisoner of war" message in the middle of a sentence where it obviously did not belong. It was neither an attack on you nor the author. It was simply a comment on the stupidity of the McCain campaign. My question was almost rhetorical, intending to illicit a response like, "yeah, I'm not sure how that's relevant either." I did not expect you to actually defend the statement nor did I believe that you agreed with her rather silly rationale.; August 18, 2008 1:01 AM
Aunt Jean said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; August 18, 2008 1:02 AM
apissedant said...: In any case... night all!
Gotta go do research tomorrow. =/

Hopefully the software has been updated so the jet fuel will stop acting up.; August 18, 2008 1:03 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Dave

richardson is a back stabber because he would sell his soul if he thought he would get something out of it. He thought he might have a better offer with Obama. I don't really believe that he endorsed Obama because he thought that Obama was the better one.

I wouldn't hold that against him. Everybody has the right to pick who they want to endorse. But I'm telling you he did it for one simple reason money. Which I believe that he was playing both sides.If he had been up front about it I would have had more respect for him. AJ; August 18, 2008 1:03 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Dave if you think that he can bring in the hispanic. He can't hispanics does not like him.Plus the fact he pissed off them about Hillary. AJ; August 18, 2008 1:07 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: apissedant said: "....I was wondering if you had an idea that would possibly explain her insanity, or blatant pandering."
-----

My answer is no I do not. I can not read other people's minds.; August 18, 2008 1:08 AM
Beryl said...: "Beryl biden is 67 that is 7 years older than Hillary. It just doesn't seem right for the VP to be older than the president. Strange of me huh. Plus the fact that he will be 75 when the 8 years are over.."

AJ,
Biden is only 4 years and 11 months older than HRC. I rounded it up to 5 years.

Hillary Clinton was born October 26, 1947 making her currently 61. I'm pretty sure you know that so I won't provide sources.

Joe Biden was born November 20, 1942 making him currently 65 not 67.
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Joseph_R._Biden
http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/candidates/joe.biden.html; August 18, 2008 1:09 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: AJ-

You have said several times that it offends you when people say unflattering things about Hillary.

Now you are saying unflattering things about Bill Richardson and you are offending me.

The best thing to do is for everyone not say unflattering things about anyone and then everyone will be happy.; August 18, 2008 1:11 AM
Beryl said...: "Dave if you think that he can bring in the hispanic. He can't hispanics does not like him.Plus the fact he pissed off them about Hillary. AJ "

Obama doesn't need Richardson to gain the Hispanic vote. He already has it.
http://www.usnews.com/articles/news/campaign-2008/2008/08/13/5-voting-groups-to-watch-this-presidential-cycle.html
"In a recent survey from the Pew Research Center, Obama was leading McCain among Hispanics, 66 percent to 23 percent. Latino respondents said education, the cost of living, jobs, and healthcare were their most important issues, and favored Obama strongly over McCain on all of them. "I think people had questions at first because of the primaries, which showed that Hispanics favored Hillary Clinton by 2 to 1, but a bad economy and party ID have already converted Hispanics to Obama," says Larry Sabato of the Center for Politics at the University of Virginia."; August 18, 2008 1:12 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Beryl he won an office in 1972 at the age of 29. So if the thing was right he is 65 years old sorry miss counted. Five years make a big difference.AJ; August 18, 2008 1:15 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Leah but I'm just telling the truth most of the things that is said about Hillary is trash. There is a difference. AJ; August 18, 2008 1:17 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Leah

It doesn't bother me when someone thinks that Hillary isn't a good pick for VP because that is how they feel. It the trashing that I have a problem with. Also things that are brought up that happened years ago just to trash her. You don't have to like her just because I do all I ask is that you [everyone] not trash her that is all. AJ; August 18, 2008 1:22 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Most things that have been said about HRC as also the truth - it is just that when they are said it infuriates you.

Now you are posting a smear against Bill Richardson (with no proof what-so-ever) and that is not right.

You have no idea why Bill Richardson endorsed Obama. You have no proof that Bill Richardson is in it for the money.

You are making things up.; August 18, 2008 1:22 AM
Independent Voter said...: AJ, I have been beaten to one of my points which was that Obama doesn't need Richardson to get the Hispanic vote. However that wasn't my question. You explicitly stated that he was a backstabber and that it wasn't because he endorsed Obama of Clinton. And then in your response you said it was because he would sell his soul to get something in return.

My problem is that does NOT sound like a "backstabber" to me. A backstabber is someone who goes behind another one's back and does something undesirable to that person.....ie talking shit behind someone's back (which he did not do.)

I'm not trying to argue with you, but your reason (him being a back-stabber) doesn't jive with your explanation.; August 18, 2008 1:24 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Beryl if you are going to say that Hillary is 61 then Biden is 66.. AJ; August 18, 2008 1:25 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Has everyone voted on the front page of DCW as to when ya'll think Obama will announce his VP pick?

Here's a direct link to the poll...

http://www.demconwatchblog.com/2008/08/veepstakes-from-different-angle.html

.; August 18, 2008 1:25 AM
Beryl said...: Biden is currently about the same age as HRC will be in 2012 and I don't think either is too old to be VP or President. They are both smart and in touch with the times -- unlike McCain.; August 18, 2008 1:28 AM
Independent Voter said...: beryl - EXCELLENT point!; August 18, 2008 1:29 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Dave

I know that you don't like the Clintons but I'm telling you He stabbed Bill in the back.You just like myself have no proof that he didn't. But I'm also good at reading people and I believe Bill when he said that he said that he was going to endorse Hillary. I think once again he endorsed Obama because of what he thinks he can get out of it. [maybe VP spot] But I'm telling you he would turn on Obama if he thought he could benefit more by doing it.

It will make the hispanic voters real mad if he picks him and he will lose a lot of votes. AJ; August 18, 2008 1:32 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Beryl

my problem is I think VP isn't good enough for Hillary. AJ; August 18, 2008 1:34 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: There is no point arguing about Richardson being the VP because the VP will be Kansas Governor Kathleen Sebelius :)

Obama/Sebelius '08; August 18, 2008 1:35 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Beryl

I think she should run again. I think she will get it next time.AJ; August 18, 2008 1:36 AM
Mike in Maryland said...: Aunt Jean said...
Dave if you think that he can bring in the hispanic. He can't hispanics does not like him.Plus the fact he pissed off them about Hillary. AJ

Aunt Jean,

Is that your opinion, or can you back it up with specific citation of polling data or other documentation?

If you can't back up the assertion, then it is your opinion, and nothing but your opinion.

Either back it up, or get off your high horse.

Mike; August 18, 2008 1:36 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: I think Hillary is not good enough to be VP or President.

She should stay in the senate where she currently has a job or move on back to Arkansas and take her hubby with her ;)

This is my opinion and I have a right to it ;); August 18, 2008 1:37 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Leah

sorry but hopefully not.How long has she been in the political field ?[not ins. field]I know that this is her second run for gov. of Kansas. AJ; August 18, 2008 1:38 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Leah ok if you want to be that way . If Hillary isn't good enough to be President or VP neither is Obama!!!!!!!!!! AJ; August 18, 2008 1:40 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Leah also I don't want no cold fish in there.See I can get ugly too AJ AJ; August 18, 2008 1:41 AM
Independent Voter said...: AJ, first rule in arguing is that it is up to the person making a claim to prove that claim. The person who is arguing against the claim only has to pick one part out of the argument and that argument falls apart.

I don't hate the Clinton's by any means. I didn't like some of the tactics they used in the primary, but to me that is all water under the bridge at this point. But to claim that Richardson is a back-stabber just because he didn't endorse Hillary is not a really a good reason to dislike him. I'm not saying that I like or dislike Richardson because I don't know enough about him to judge him too well. If you want to attack him on his record, fine, but don't attack him because he didn't endorse the way you thought he should have. That's all I'm saying.; August 18, 2008 1:41 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Dave please listen that is not the reason I don't like richardson [just because he didn't endorse Hillary] I don't dislike Carter because he did. I have a lot of respect for him. AJ; August 18, 2008 1:44 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: AJ-

Sebelius has more years of experience as an elected official than HRC does.

1986-1994 Kansas House of Representatives.

2003-present Kansas Governor.

Hmm... so that is 14 years for Sebelius and only 7 years for Hillary.; August 18, 2008 1:45 AM
apissedant said...: Ugh,
Another silly argument.

Aunt Jean,
They are correct in that you are stating your opinion about Bill Richardson, and not facts.

These opinions have been stated many times on here, and everyone knows how everyone else feels. There is really no purpose in going into it again. Also, I am not 100% sure on this, but I don't think there is anyone currently signed in on DCW that actually has Richardson as their first choice, so it is kind of like arguing with a ghost.

How about EVERYONE get off their high horse and talk rationally instead of constantly looking for how someone is trying to piss them off or saying something stupid so they can pounce on them. We are still all on the same team, aren't we?; August 18, 2008 1:46 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Mike in Maryland when I want to talk to you I will let you know in the mean time get off your high horse. AJ; August 18, 2008 1:46 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Leah you must be dreaming wake up you are in lala land once again. AJ LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL; August 18, 2008 1:48 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Leah you say everyone has more experience than Hillary get off your high horse.AJ; August 18, 2008 1:49 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: AJ-

Sebelius has more years of experience as an elected official than HRC does.

1986-1994 Kansas House of Representatives.

2003-present Kansas Governor.

Hmm... so that is 14 years for Sebelius and only 7 years for Hillary.

---

AJ - those are facts. If you can disprove them then you are more than welcome to do so with REAL FACTS.; August 18, 2008 1:50 AM
Independent Voter said...: LOL Leah and AJ.

I do think Hillary would would have made a decent and effective VP, but I don't think that she was a serious contender. And the main reason I think that (about the last part) is because the PUMA folks and the likes wouldn't be satisfied no matter what. The only reason I would ever see him choosing her would be to bring them on board, but I was reminded today on one of the Sunday talk shows (I think it was This Week) that the Republicans would be looking forward to her being put on the ticket because they felt that Mc"Needs A"Cain would win in a landslide, which I would agree with.; August 18, 2008 1:52 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: I have never in my life seen people that disregard facts as much as they do here on this open thread!

It is really unbelievable at times! LOL ;); August 18, 2008 1:54 AM
Beryl said...: Good grief, I'll have to be the mother in here.

Leah,
You know she is emotionally connected to the Clintons so don't goat her. Do you really care that much about Richardson or are you just trying to make a point? If the latter, your point has been made so let it go. Do not expect AJ to agree with you because she will not.

AJ,
We got that you don't like Richardson. You have a perfect right to not like him. However, Leah is right that if you don't like anyone to talk negatively about the Clintons, you should not talk about another Democrat.

Now go to your rooms and think about what I've told you. Come out when you are ready to play nicely.

:); August 18, 2008 1:55 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: From Politico:

August 18, 2008
Categories: John McCain
Dept. of pre-emptive outrage

McCain campaign manager Rick Davis writes NBC to complain that Andrea Mitchell reported on the suggestion "that McCain may not have been in the cone of silence and may have had some ability to overhear what the questions were to Obama. He seemed so well prepared," as Mike Allen reports.

Also, McCain's camp confirms he wasn't in the cone of silence, though there was no TV in the car. (There were, presumably, blackberries; though in fact, no evidence has emerged that McCain had the (obvious!) questions early, and Warren, not McCain, made the claim that he was in a sealed room.)

Meanwhile, Nicole Wallace plays the POW card to swat down the suggestion McCain cheated:

“The insinuation from the Obama campaign that John McCain, a former prisoner of war, cheated is outrageous,” Ms. Wallace said.

---

That answers apissedant's earlier question.. she was playing the POW card!; August 18, 2008 2:01 AM
Mike in Maryland said...: Leah Texas4Obama said...
Sebelius has more years of experience as an elected official than HRC does.

1986-1994 Kansas House of Representatives.

2003-present Kansas Governor.

Leah,

You understated Gov. Sebelius's experience as an elected official by 8 years.

The Insurance Commissioner in Kansas is an elected position. Gov. Sebelius was elected to that position in 1994 and held it until her run for Governor in 2002.

In reality, Kathleen Sebelius has been an elected official for almost 22 (consecutive) years now.

Mike; August 18, 2008 2:03 AM
Independent Voter said...: LOL beryl!

I'm sorry AJ. I didn't mean to get you going on Richardson. I will shut up. I've been a little bored today. Bill is out of town, I went to a party on Friday and another one yesterday (that's why I wasn't much of a presence over the last few days.); August 18, 2008 2:04 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Beryl you are funny considering I'm older than you. LMAO I was trying to make a point with Leah but I guess she didn't see that. AJ; August 18, 2008 2:05 AM
Aunt Jean said...: mike in maryland.

ins. comm. is not political.Mike you are so funny because you say such foolish things LOL LOL LOL AJ; August 18, 2008 2:08 AM
Aunt Jean said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; August 18, 2008 2:10 AM
Aunt Jean said...: So Hillary has been working for women's rights since she more or less got out of college. So she has 35 plus years in politics. YEA I THOUGHT SO.AJ; August 18, 2008 2:12 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Mike in Maryland -

Thank you for the correction.

I didn't even look at those years because of AJ's remark about years not including the insurance stuff.

But YOU are correct. She was ELECTED to that office.

And it WAS a political office:

Early political career

She was first elected to the Kansas House of Representatives in 1986. In 1994 she left the House to run for state insurance commissioner and stunned political forecasters by winning — the first time a Democrat had won in more than 100 years. She is credited with bringing the agency out from under the influence of the insurance industry. She refused to take campaign contributions from insurers and blocked the proposed merger of Blue Cross and Blue Shield of Kansas, the state's largest health insurer, with an Indiana-based company. The decision by Sebelius marked the first time the corporation had been rebuffed in its acquisition attempts."

.

Sebelius = 22 years of elected office

Hillary = 7 1/2 years of elected office; August 18, 2008 2:13 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Dave it wasn't that I couldn't post some things about proof on richardson I just didn't want to go to the trouble.

That's ok it's said and done. Poor thing so your other half is out of town. When will he be back? AJ; August 18, 2008 2:14 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Leah ins comm isn't a political office how foolish are you and Mike in Maryland. Plus Hillary has been in politics a hell of a lot longer than that don't care what the lunacy of your arguement is. AJ; August 18, 2008 2:18 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Wise men learn more from fools than fools from the wise.
-- Cato the Elder; August 18, 2008 2:28 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Leah than you had better listen to me because I know what you and Mike in Maryland are.Which is: all you two like to do is cause discord I guess you needed your fix. AJ; August 18, 2008 2:37 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Leah I have a quote: Me says there is nothing worst than a fool that likes to start trouble. FROM THE WISE AJ; August 18, 2008 2:39 AM
Mike in Maryland said...: Aunt Jean said...
Leah ins comm isn't a political office

Aunt Jean,

Insurance Commissioner is not an elective office in most states, but it IS in Kansas.

Look it up if you don't believe us.

Or maybe this from The Washington Times (a paper not known to be friendly to Democrats) might help to convince you:

Kathleen Sebelius:
Her first campaign for elective office in Kansas came in 1986, when she won a seat in the state House of Representatives. She was re-elected three more times before deciding to run for insurance commissioner in 1994.

She won re-election as insurance commissioner in 1998 with about 59 percent of the vote, something that automatically made her the presumed Democratic gubernatorial nominee in 2002. In the general election that year, she received 53 percent of the vote.

BTW - the current Insurance Commissioner in Kansas is Sandy Praeger. If the office is not elective, then why did she first have to win the 2006 Republican primary race for Insurance Commissioner?

http://uselectionatlas.org/RESULTS/state.php?fips=20&year=2006&f=0&off=13&elect=2

Mike; August 18, 2008 2:43 AM
Independent Voter said...: AJ, ya he's gone until Wednesday. But it's ok, it is giving me a chance to take care of all the domestics around the house and finish up a few projects that we started a couple months ago. We are remodeling our master bedroom and hadn't finished putting up the drywall. So Friday, I finished putting that up plus taped and textured the walls. Tomorrow I'll be painting. I figured I'd surprise him for when he gets home. This way he won't have to help finish it. I'll let him decorate it since he thinks he has better taste in furniture than I do (actually I like more modern contemporary clean lines and he likes curvy older stuff, but I have my office so I figured give him the bedroom.) It's all about compromise. :); August 18, 2008 2:45 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Leah and Mike in Maryland

now that you two have bored me to death I will leave you two with the lunacy of your arguements. AJ; August 18, 2008 2:46 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Dave you are right about compromising. That is very sweet of you. He will be so surprised. I like surprises. They put a smile on my face and make me very loving. VBG AJ; August 18, 2008 2:48 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools talk because they have to say something.
-- Plato; August 18, 2008 2:50 AM
Independent Voter said...: AJ, He's not one for surprises, but I think this one he will be okay with because he hates to remodel our house, he has no problem remodeling other people's houses because he is making money doing that. But we made a lot of upgrades so that when the market bounces back we should be able to do quite well on the return.

With this next statement, I'm honestly not trying to be a dick by any means, but I did look it up on the Kansas "elected officials" website and Insurance Commissioner is an elected office http://www.sedgwickcounty.org/elections/Election/electedofficiallistings.cfm

Yes, insurance commissioner is a pretty thankless job, but in KS it is still an elected office nonetheless.; August 18, 2008 2:56 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Leah

you really shouldn't called yourself a fool considering so far everything you have said is foolish. LMAO AJ; August 18, 2008 2:57 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Dave I never said that it wasn't an elected office I said it wasn't a political office unless you think ins. and only ins is political. AJ; August 18, 2008 2:59 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Leah here's a good one

We are twice armed if we fight with faith.

by Plato

I thought it was great because I have faith.; August 18, 2008 3:18 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Dave

why would you believe that Hillary would have lost by a land slide to McCain, if Obama could beat McCain considering she had more votes than Obama doesn't make sense to me. AJ; August 18, 2008 3:22 AM
Aunt Jean said...: leah here's one more that's is good: please pay attendion to this one.

Those who are serious in ridiculous matters will be ridiculous in serious matters.

By: Cato The Elder.

AJ; August 18, 2008 3:27 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Dave

I have to get up early tomorrow so I will say goodnight. I will read your answer to my question tomorrow. Have a nice night. AJ; August 18, 2008 3:29 AM
Karen Anne said...: Richardson didn't stab anyone in the back. The Clintons don't own him, regardless of what they think. He picked the person he thought was the best candidate, and then the Clinton campaign behaved like two year olds.

"Mondale picking Ferraro, Bush picking Quayle" there's a nightmare phrase :-); August 18, 2008 7:51 AM
apissedant said...: I was reading a political blog by an atheist earlier. They were obviously upset about the venue on Saturday, and were obviously anti-McCain. They had a quote from McCain that I must have somehow missed. They quoted McCain as saying the Constitution set up the United States as a Christian government. I guess McCain never saw the Treaty of Tripoli.

http://www.stephenjaygould.org/ctrl/treaty_tripoli.html

Article 11 states:
"As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquillity, of Mussulmen; and, as the said States never entered into any war, or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties, that no pretext arising from religious opinions, shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries."

This was unanimously approved in 1796 by the United States Senate, made up, at the time, of our founding fathers, just 8 years after the Constitution was officially ratified. The Constitution does not once mentioned God, Jesus, or Christianity.; August 18, 2008 8:07 AM
Karen Anne said...: ap,

Plus, a lot of the founding fathers were Deists, not Christians. Jefferson, Franklin, Madison, Hamilton, Adams, etc.; August 18, 2008 9:13 AM
Aunt Jean said...: KarenAnne

keep living in lala land.

Bill Richardson is not who people think he is. If he had the chance to make money out of it he would stab Obama in the back.

To stay in your lunatic world is beyond belief.

As far as Ferrero she is 10x the person you will even think you are.

What gets me about some of you people is you are under the insane belief that richardson picked Obama because he believed Obama to be the better person. LOL LOL LOL that is so funny.

If anyone acts like a 2 year old it's not Hillary but a few on here. AJ; August 18, 2008 9:19 AM
Aunt Jean said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; August 18, 2008 9:24 AM
Vicki in Seattle said...: IV, my sweeties is out of town this week too, for business. DENVER!! I asked him if he couldn't delay one week - we have friends we could stay with.

I think he could delay, but our friends are freaked out about DNC coming to town - one of them works in the major trauma center (less than a mile from the convention, and her shift is afternoon to late evening. She is freaked out that "something will happen" and then they will be full to the max with activity. So the added stress of company, didn't have the heart to go there.; August 18, 2008 9:30 AM
Vicki in Seattle said...: AJ, when you point the finger at others, four other fingers point back at yourself.; August 18, 2008 9:32 AM
Vicki in Seattle said...: correction, three fingers - still waking up .... d'oh! but the comment still stands.; August 18, 2008 9:40 AM
Richard said...: If we're going for surprise choices, I will again bring up the name of Bill Bradley. Serious liberal cred, foreign policy experience, name recognition, intelligence. Added bonus: Olympic gold medalist.

If that's too left-field for you, I would say a freshly-shaved Bill Richardson. Richardson's qualifications are beyond question, and his break from the Clintons only makes him a more attractive candidate in my mind.; August 18, 2008 9:44 AM
Aunt Jean said...: karen anne if you knew what you were talking about you would know that being a deist is still considered a christian.Do they not believe in God [yes]

http://www.onr.com/user/bejo/christiandeist.htm

AJ; August 18, 2008 9:47 AM
Richard said...: AJ, not all deists are Christians. Albert Einstein is a classic deist. You wouldn't argue that Al was a Christian, would you?; August 18, 2008 9:48 AM
Richard said...: AJ - since when is everyone who believes in God a Christian?; August 18, 2008 9:49 AM
Richard said...: And Aunt Jean, even assuming you were correct and Karen Anne wrong, why do you attack her personally ("if you knew what you were talking about...")?; August 18, 2008 9:53 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Rich

Albert Einstein was more of a Agnostic.Besides I wasn't attacking her I was stating facts just like she does.Besides you can't say that they aren't Christians considering they believe in God.Is it not what a Christian believes? Yes there is more to it but that is the basic core of it.AJ; August 18, 2008 10:34 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Rich
about richardson baa hum bug.He would be the worst
AJ; August 18, 2008 10:36 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Vicki in Seattle

so what are you trying to say? AJ; August 18, 2008 10:37 AM
Vicki in Seattle said...: AJ, you come across as attacking others with very little provocation. Listening can work but you have to give it a chance.; August 18, 2008 10:43 AM
jean said...: AJ,
I am not to thrilled with Bill Richardson either.
What ticked me off was when he HAD to stir the pot and say he did feel uncomfortable about Clinton do the roll call.
The Obama campaign already had this all cleared up but he had to bring it up AGAIN.
I think he is more impressed to hear his own voice.
It seems he has to be in the spot light.
There is no way he will ever be VP with his attitude.
jean; August 18, 2008 10:43 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Vicki

so who am I attacking this time that's the problem with some posters on here if someone states facts that they don't like just like the way they post facts even if theirs is more an attackon a person it's ok.

Well sorry it's not ok with me. AJ; August 18, 2008 10:49 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Vicki
maybe the others need to stop and listen sometimes. AJ; August 18, 2008 10:50 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Vicki
you still didn't explain what you meant by finger pointing. AJ; August 18, 2008 10:54 AM
Karen Anne said...: AJ,

You seem to think that everyone who believes there is a God is a Christian.

Christians believe Jesus Christ is God, part of the Trinity, at least where I come from.

Deists do not. Muslims believe in God, and that Christ existed, but that Christ was a prophet, not a God. You aren't claiming Muslims are Christians, as you?

I have yet to see any evidence that Richardson made his decision based on anything but his judgment.

p.s. Who cares if Richardson has a beard or not? I'm not planning on kissing him :-) Beards scratch :-); August 18, 2008 10:55 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Jean

I am not to thrilled with Bill Richardson either.
What ticked me off was when he HAD to stir the pot and say he did feel uncomfortable about Clinton do the roll call.
The Obama campaign already had this all cleared up but he had to bring it up AGAIN.
I think he is more impressed to hear his own voice.
It seems he has to be in the spot light.
There is no way he will ever be VP with his attitude.

I agree with you 100% AJ; August 18, 2008 10:55 AM
Vicki in Seattle said...: AJ, the finger pointing thing - well, you will very freely attack someone (don't deny it, your attack others personally) - up to and including calling them names (words that you have to partly ## out, again, don't deny it, we've all seen it). These are considered "pointing the finger". well, when you "point the finger" (attack), you have three fingers pointing back at you.

one of those three fingers is that only a weak person attacks so easily. a strong person will stop to listen. another of those fingers is that you undermine your position if you always attack when your favorite topic is even vaguely VAGUELY undermined. It makes you appear to be unwilling to listen and learn. That is a position of weakness, not strength.

There are those here that I refuse to interact with, but I still can learn stuff from them, even though they clearly loathe me. I don't care. I know who I am.

anyway, if you still don't understand, let it go. I will certainly let it go if you don't choose to understand what I'm saying.; August 18, 2008 11:04 AM
jean said...: karen anne,
I am quite partial to beards, the husband has had one from the day I met him till now, 22 years;)
So this says I really do not like Richardson.
I do not think he has Unity in mind, he only has Richardson in mind.
With his continuous little jibes at the Clintons I hope he doesn't want much from capital hill.
Obama will be president but HRC will hold a very powerful position:)
jean; August 18, 2008 11:05 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Karen Anne

this is what I believe who am I to say that someone is a christian or not I am not nor you GOD.Excuse me I consider myself a christian. I don't believe that Jesus is God Jesus is Gods son.

Not that Obama is a terrible person to endorse but my opinion is he didn't do it because he thought Obama was the better choise or he won his state but purely because he thinks he will get something out of it.In other words GREED!!!! AJ; August 18, 2008 11:08 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Vicki

I only attack when they attack Hillary knowing full well it makes me mad. Now I don't expect them to like her just because I do but there is a difference between talking about something RECENT and dragging up something that happened years ago just to be a smart butt.Even you right now are attacking I don't see you saying anything about them attacking just me . So before you start critizing me you need to take a long look at the things they say. AJ; August 18, 2008 11:13 AM
Vicki in Seattle said...: never mind, AJ. you are choosing to not understand.; August 18, 2008 11:14 AM
Aunt Jean said...: typo on critizing should have been criticizing. AJ; August 18, 2008 11:17 AM
Aunt Jean said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; August 18, 2008 11:19 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Vicki
I think it is you that do not understand what I see.That's the whole problem.Are you afraid that you will receive their scorn if you say anything about a few posters here? That's how I see it. AJ; August 18, 2008 11:21 AM
Mike in Maryland said...: Aunt Jean,

Deism is the belief that a supreme god exists and created the physical universe, but shall not intervene in its normal operation.

Deism does NOT mean Christianity. A person who believes in monotheism is more apt to become a Deist than a person who lives in a polytheistic religious environment.

By the way - the only TRUE monotheistic religion is Judaism. Christianity believes in a Trinity AND a Devil who has some 'superpowers'; Islam believes in a god (Allah - the Arabic name for the Jewish G-D), but also in the Devil.

I took the trouble of looking up the information before posting. Maybe you should try doing that sometimes, as you might learn some interesting things during the search process. I know I usually do.

Mike

Mike; August 18, 2008 11:24 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Vicki

if you would kindly go back and read karen anne's post at 7:51 am she was attacking then.Mine started after that.Did it serve any purpose to say those things except to make someone mad? AJ; August 18, 2008 11:31 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Mike in Maryland I did that goes to show how much you pay attention before attacking. AJ; August 18, 2008 11:33 AM
Aunt Jean said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; August 18, 2008 11:43 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Mike in Maryland oh I forgot just because you post something it's always the correct answer but if I post something I'm wrong. Sorry I DIDN'T KNOW YOU WERE GOD. That you think you know everything. How remiss of me why don't you order me to be beheaded since you think you are king on info. AJ; August 18, 2008 11:45 AM
Karen Anne said...: Mike in M,

I think Christian theologians would say Christianity is a monotheistic religion. The Trinity is One, that sort of thing.

No Christian believes the Devil is a God even if he wears his superpowers suit. :-) Any more than they believe Angels are God.; August 18, 2008 12:12 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Karen anne

I am agreeing with you. See we can agree on something. AJ; August 18, 2008 12:17 PM
Doc Pickles said...: Longtime lurker, first time poster.

I feel all this talk about Biden is a kneejerk reaction to the situation in Georgia. It still shouldn't justify picking a senator as a running mate.

This is a change election and the fundamentals point to somebody from outside the beltway. If O wants Mr. Biden's opinion I'm sure Biden would take the call and talk at great length about Georgia.

Reading between the lines, McCain's connection to his top policy advisor Randy Scheunemann gives me the feeling that we're looking at an October Surprise with an August expiry date designed to put pressure on Obama to pick an insider. That will blow up in his face under sustained pressure, it would be like picking Lloyd Bentson in 1988 over when there is an Al Gore waiting in the wings.

Sebilius makes a lot of sense and she's probably never taken a call from Orion Strategies.

That's my $0.02; August 18, 2008 1:17 PM
Independent Voter said...: AJ,

You asked last night why I thought Hillary would lose by a landslide. But what I had actually said is that if Obama chose her, I thought he would lose by a landslide.

The Republicans relish the thought of him putting her on the ticket. Originally I didn't like the idea, but now I wouldn't mind her being his running mate because I personally don't vote based on VP pick, I vote based on the presidential candidate.

I'm not sure if you remember, "Hillary Clinton: The Movie", but the Republicans had put it out over a year ago. Although there was a lot of misinformation in it, but we have way too many "low-information voters" in this country, and if they sat through just 1/3 of that movie, too many of them would vote against her, and not necessarily for McCain.

Like I said, there was a lot of FALSE information in it, but it is still out there nonetheless. The Republicans really want to attack her on her and Bill's past. And we have seen how McCain has lost all of his integrity with Obama as the presumptive nominee, he would have zero problem going after her in an even stronger fashion.

Again, this is MY opinion.; August 18, 2008 1:24 PM
Richard said...: Aunt Jean, why is it so important to you to believe that deists are Christians? Even your own link does not argue that all deists are Christians; it describes clearly and accurately what deists are and then goes on to discuss a subset of deists it calls Christian Deists!; August 18, 2008 1:26 PM
Independent Voter said...: Oh Canada,

WHO ASKED YOU! (JUST KIDDING - BEING VERY SARCASTIC).

Anyway, the main reason I believe it will be Biden is simply because Obama's critics have a perception that Obama is weak on foreign policy and Biden would for sure fill in those gaps.; August 18, 2008 1:30 PM
Independent Voter said...: Oh and welcome to the long-time lurker, first-time poster, Oh Canada.; August 18, 2008 1:31 PM
Mike in Maryland said...: Karen Anne,

Most theologians will state that Christianity is monotheistic.

Although it is not the best source, here is a passage from the Wikipedia page on monotheism that may help to explain what I meant when I stated that some consider that Judaism is the only TRUE monotheistic religion:

"[M]onotheistic religions may still include concepts of a plurality of the divine, for example the Trinity, in which God is one being in three personal dimensions (the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit). Additionally, Christians believe Jesus to have two natures (divine and human), each possessing the full attributes of that nature, without mixture or intermingling of those attributes. Although Christian theology reserves worship for the Divine, the distinction between worshipping the divine nature of Jesus but not the human nature of Jesus can be difficult for non-Christians (and even Christian laity) to follow."

One of the early philosophical battles of Christianity involved the concept of the duality of Christ's nature, a divine and a human, a twofold being in Christ. This was the 'Nestorian heresy', addressed at the Council of Ephesus in 431 CE.

There immediately arose then the opposite 'heresy' that stated that the two natures in Christ, the Divine and the human, were so intimately united that they became physically one, inasmuch as the human nature was completely absorbed by the Divine. Thus resulted one Christ not only with one personality but also with one nature. After the Incarnation, they said, no distinction could be made in Christ between the Divine and the human. Thus arose the 'Monophysitic error' (Gr. mone physis, one nature).

The 'Monophysitic error' was the reason the Council of Chalcedon was held in 451 CE.

The leadership of the Church in Alexandria in Egypt was (apparently falsely) accused of believing in the 'Monophysitic error' after the Council of Chalcedon. This caused the first major split between Rome and the Eastern churches, and caused the Alexandrian Church to form the Coptic Church of Egypt.

Add in 'The Holy Spirit' and you have a Trinity. Trinity indicates three, not one. Mono is Greek meaning one, theism refers to God, so 'monotheism' means 'one God'.

There can be three parts of one, but the three parts can be identified as distinct parts, and thus not a single, indivisible, indistinguishable whole. This is why some don't consider Christianity a 'true' monotheistic religion. Judaism, on the other hand, has no theology of anything but one God, who is a single, indivisible, indistinguishable whole.

I'm not a theologian, thus I'm not stating what my position is on this. I'm just trying to present the views of some others on the subject, and to show that there are a variety of views on the subject.

Mike; August 18, 2008 1:53 PM
Doc Pickles said...: The last time a Canadian tried meddling in your election things went badly for everybody.

http://www.canada.com/globaltv/national/story.html?id=402a69b5-4b48-4c76-b61a-e32e59c474a7&k=87165

Canada is the Florence to America's Rome and we're following this election closely.

It looks like the pick will be announced this week.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0808/12596.html

This will be an impressive ticket no matter who Obama's team picks, simply because Obama is on the ticket. I'm not keen on Biden but could live with him as long as he writes his own speeches this time around.

I would be very impressed if it was Sebelius because while she's not the most thrilling selection she's definitely on the same page as Obama and they would make a good team.

If he's willing to accept the nomination I think Obama would hit it out of the park with Al Gore. Imagine the VP debate with a Republican candidate trying to argue "drill drill drill" against Gore. No contest.

As a friendly neighbour I think it's safe to say that the world wants to love you again, America!
I've actually seen bumper stickers and lawn signs for Obama in Toronto.; August 18, 2008 2:25 PM
Vicki in Seattle said...: thanks for your thoughtful post, Oh Canada! I have to believe that the rest of the world wants to love us again, too. and I do, technically, live in a border state. (very big grin!)

We need to do some housecleaning first, though. and I think we are doing it just fine and dandy, thanks!

anyone in canada (or anywhere) wanting an Obama poster can go to barackobama.com - the store there has all kinds of goodies. I'm going to get a new sticker for the car as soon as he announces his VP pick.; August 18, 2008 2:39 PM
Beryl said...: "As a friendly neighbour I think it's safe to say that the world wants to love you again, America!
I've actually seen bumper stickers and lawn signs for Obama in Toronto."

Terrific to hear this! I'm not surprised though. Despite the negative ads from the Repugnicans about Obama being a celebrity, I think it is critical for our allies to respect our President. I was thrilled to see the thousands of Germans cheering Obama and waiving USA flags. We need to unify to accomplish common goals. Energy and the environment are two important ones!; August 18, 2008 2:46 PM
jean said...: Someone who said they do not want the VP slot but will probally be the Secretary of Defense is Jack Reed.
I think he would be a great VP.
jean; August 18, 2008 2:59 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Jean

I do like what I read of Jack Reed and you just might be right that he would make a good VP. AJ; August 18, 2008 3:07 PM
jean said...: AJ,
They say if he was asked to be Secretary of Defense he really cannot say no.
I figure if Obama talks to him he can't say no either.
Rumours are it could be a surprise.
jean; August 18, 2008 3:12 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Dave

no I didn't watch that movie I thought it would be trash so why watch it. Ok I see where you are coming from. Now if McLame still keeps putting his foot in his mouth. AJ; August 18, 2008 3:24 PM
Independent Voter said...: LOL! Gotta love Andy Borowitz.

Excerpt:

In a potentially ominous sign for the presumptive Democratic nominee, a new poll shows Sen. Barack Obama (D-Ill) trailing far behind G.O.P. standard bearer Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz) among voters who identify themselves as racists.

Pundits and pollsters alike have wondered about the role racists might play in the 2008 presidential contest, but the new survey released today was the first concrete attempt to take the pulse of this key voting bloc.

The poll, conducted by Duh Magazine, suggests that Mr. Obama faces an uphill battle in his effort to win the votes of dyed-in-the-wool bigots.; August 18, 2008 3:31 PM
Independent Voter said...: AJ, it does seem like McCain suffers from foot in mouth disease a lot lately doesn't it?; August 18, 2008 3:32 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Rich

I never said that it was important.You need to read all of my post.

One more thing I don't believe in The Father, Son or holy spirit. I only have one God. I know that the catholic say father, son and holy ghost and I'm sure that there are others but not in mine. We have only one god.Jesus is the son of God. AJ; August 18, 2008 3:34 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Dave

I thought that he always suffered from it. LOL AJ; August 18, 2008 3:36 PM
jean said...: indy,
I think I need to get a subscription to Duh Magazine to put things in perspective;)

Have you started painting yet?
jean; August 18, 2008 3:36 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Dave
what do you think of Jack Reed. Jean seems to like him and from what I have read about him. I think he would be good for Obama's VP. What do you think? AJ; August 18, 2008 3:40 PM
Independent Voter said...: jean, I have finished the first coat, just waiting for it to dry to do the second coat. ;)

AJ, I don't know much about Reed at this point, but I will do some research and get back to you on it.; August 18, 2008 3:56 PM
Richard said...: Aunt Jean, I never said that you said it was important to you. Perhaps you need to read my posts more carefully; I said that it is important to you. The evidence for this is your strong emotional reaction to anyone who suggests that deists are not Christians.

Your condescension is growing tiresome. Every time someone disagrees with you you dismiss them as foolish or misguided, or in this case not having read your posts. Your paranoia is also wearying; not everything that is said about the Clintons or any other of your pet topics is aimed at you, and believe it or not there are many reasons for people to dislike the Clintons and to express their dislike other than to anger Aunt Jean.; August 18, 2008 3:59 PM
jean said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; August 18, 2008 4:05 PM
Mike in Maryland said...: A problem in a Reed VP slot or any cabinet position is that the governor of Rhode Island is a Republican (Donald Carcieri). If Reed were to step down from his Senate seat, Carcieri would almost assuredly appoint a Republican to fill it.

This the same reasoning many use to downplay any role Bayh might have in an Obama Presidency. Indiana also has a Republican governor (Mitch Daniels) who was head of OMB before he ran for governor.

Mike; August 18, 2008 4:13 PM
Aunt Jean said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; August 18, 2008 4:18 PM
jean said...: mike in maryland,
Good point and you are ruining my day with that thought.
I thought Reed was up for reelection this November with a Dem and Rep running against him.
Couldn't that be made to work so that the Dems keep it?
Does he have to leave right away?
I do not know.
jean; August 18, 2008 4:22 PM
Karen Anne said...: As a Rhode Islander, I am not particularly impressed with Reed. He seems to be pretty much of a no-op.

Mike in M, it kind of sets my teeth on edge when someone who is Jewish (not you if you are, rather the sources you are quoting) declares that Christianity is wrong about something that is intrinsic to its belief system. i would never presume to say that Judaism has errors in its belief system.; August 18, 2008 4:23 PM
Karen Anne said...: It occurs to me that there is a parallel between the Christian/Jewish Clinton/Obama discussion, but religion is one thing, politics is another.; August 18, 2008 4:28 PM
jean said...: karen anne,
That is a very wise observation.

As you know I feel levity is quite important.
My son just told me:
"Hold your horses Humpty Dumpty and don't fall off the wall."

On a Dem site we agree to disagree;)
jean; August 18, 2008 4:36 PM
Richard said...: Karen Anne - I see your point, but as for Richardson I have yet to see his thirty pieces of silver.; August 18, 2008 4:39 PM
Independent Voter said...: Jean, you are right, he is up for re-election this year. Their primary is September 9th. I don't think there would be enough time for him to seek someone to replace him. In addition, the other problem is that if he decides to run for both offices, we end up with a LIEberman issue (from 2000) which I still can't understand how you focus on two campaigns at once.; August 18, 2008 4:40 PM
Independent Voter said...: WTF?!?!?!?!?

Wolf Blitzer really needs to get a life. He is once again talking about the "dream ticket". Get over it WOLF!; August 18, 2008 4:41 PM
Independent Voter said...: Dammit Jean, NO WE CAN'T!!!!!! (Agree to disagree). JUST KIDDING!; August 18, 2008 4:43 PM
jean said...: indy,
This will not die till after the convention.
jean; August 18, 2008 4:43 PM
jean said...: Gotta take the son to the last Game Stop stop before school starts then there is nothingness till X-mas.
Mean mom.
Come on Indy, I think the humpty dumpty comment is funny;0
jean; August 18, 2008 4:47 PM
Independent Voter said...: LOL Jean, it was funny.

As to the "dream ticket" talk, I think it will die out on Wednesday, which is when I predict Obama will announce his running mate.; August 18, 2008 4:50 PM
jean said...: Indy,
Yep, I meant that.
Going to Game Stop is not my favorite thing and just thinking how long we are going to be there is rattling my cage;)
jean; August 18, 2008 4:52 PM
Independent Voter said...: LOL Jean. Good luck!; August 18, 2008 4:58 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Rich
saying why is so important to youis what is wrong. It's not that important who is a christian or not.

As far as people not liking Hillary. I don't expect everyone to like or think of her as I do. I just don't think they should bring up trash from years ago.

Everyone has things in their closet that they had rather it stay there even OBAMA.The people that make me angry are the very peoplethat do it just to get a rise out of me or Hillary supporters. That is wrong!!!

Then there are others that might be displeased with something Hillary says or does in today. I don't say neg. things to them whybecause they weren't saying it to trash it was just how they felt at the time.

Hillary didn't do anything that everyone else did during the run off even OBAMA.So please don't preach to me that they have plenty to dislike Hillary over. I can name dozens of reasons why at the time I disliked Obama. I won't go there why because it's water under the bridge. Just like it should be to everyone else.

Instead of trying to bring everyone together on the same page there seems to be people on here that want to tear the democrat party apart.

All they seem to be able to do is run down Hillary supporters [not them personal]but some even do that.

I'm sorry to inform you and them Obama needs them. You and them might not like it or admit it but you know it's true.

So if everyone would work togetheras a democrat party we will get something done work apart and nothing will get done. AJ; August 18, 2008 4:58 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Dave sorry but GOOOO Wolf!!! LOL

Sorry Dave I couldn't help myself. LOL AJ; August 18, 2008 5:00 PM
Independent Voter said...: LOL! He wasn't really pushing it too much though. His Republican guest seemed to have been pushing Sam Nunn or Evan Bayh more than anyone else. I couldn't believe Donna Brazille was somewhat pushing John Kerry. UGH! Democrats aren't Republicans. They don't put up losing candidates twice (generally speaking) in presidential politics. This is one reason, in my opinion, why Dennis Kucinich didn't do well. (Besides the fact that he's so short the TV cameras seem to scan right over the top of him - JUST KIDDING! GEESH); August 18, 2008 5:08 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Aunt Jean said: ... As far as people not liking Hillary. I don't expect everyone to like or think of her as I do. I just don't think they should bring up trash from years ago.
---------------------------

That is your opinion. Everyone has a right to their own opinion not only you.

When people on this thread say something regarding HRC the 'majority' of the time they are not talking to you.

We know what you think and feel about HRC - you don't have to keep saying it over and over and jamming it down our throats all of the time!

You have the right not to read the HRC comments and you have the choice to not respond. But others on this thread have the right to post their thoughts.

Rich hit the button on the nose earlier in his post.

.; August 18, 2008 5:12 PM
Independent Voter said...: WOW! So now Condi Rice is threatening Russia. Hmmmmmmm, unreal. How do you threaten a country as large as Russia when your own military is bogged down in a war that never should have been waged? Does she really believe that NATO is going to do something of any significance?; August 18, 2008 5:15 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: As far as the 'dream ticket' the only folks that are pushing that is the TV pundits.

There isn't anyone in the Obama camp that is and none of the original Obama supporters are either.

Wolf, Pat Buchanan, and all the other pundits need to drop the 'dream ticket' bullshit and quit stirring up $hit! The republicans would have a field day if Hillary were on the ticket and it would bring Obama down.

It ain't gonna happen.; August 18, 2008 5:17 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: In the 2004 election

Bush received 62,040,610 votes

Kerry received 59,028,444 votes

That is a a total of over 121 MILLION people that voted in the general election in 2004.

I am sick of hearing about Hillary 18 million voters -- that is a drop in the bucket!!!

My prediction is that there will be closer to 150 million people that will vote this year!; August 18, 2008 5:23 PM
Richard said...: I've contacted Oreo about JayW's divisive and misogynist post.; August 18, 2008 5:25 PM
suzihussein22 said...: Oh Canada, greetings and salutations. I hope being a fly on the wall has been enjoyable. It's good to hear from people with an eye on their neigbors. Let us know if you need to borrow a cup of sugar. ;D

My other half has ordered an Obama button. That's one more independent for CHANGE and HOPE.; August 18, 2008 5:26 PM
apissedant said...: Oh Canada,
Thank you for posting something relevant. It was nice to see a sane post in the middle of... well.... the mess currently going on. Welcome to DCW!; August 18, 2008 5:30 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Leah like I really care what you think and I will call you on trash about Hillary everytime I don't care if you like it or not now quite being so RUDE. You are about the rudest person I've ever seen or should I say read. You really should grow up. What I said is what really hit the nail on the head and it's people like you and that low life Jayw that will get Obama to lose.Are you sure you aren't a republician troll? AJ; August 18, 2008 5:32 PM
Independent Voter said...: UNREAL! Ok, I know this is going to go over like a lead balloon but I think it is something many of us need to hear. This is actually quite easy for me to say because I am not a religious person, but here it goes anyway.

People want to know why our medical costs have skyrocketed? Many claim that it is because of "frivolous" lawsuits (which nobody can accurately define), and I'm sure it is has something to do with it, but I also believe there is something more at play. I just read this story about how 57% of Americans believe that "God trumps doctors for many Americans", and that 3/4 of them believe that their demands for treatment (for a dying loved one) should be met, regardless of all the medical evidence. Even in the cases of someone being brain-dead. I say bullshit!

I know that sounds harsh and pretty narrow-minded of me, but when you have thousands of people on "life-support" in any given day (when they have been declare dead or have a zero chance of recovery), the costs have nowhere to go but up, and who pays for that? WE do, ALL taxpayers who use the health care system.

By the way, here is the article I'm referring to.; August 18, 2008 5:33 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Leah it sure is funny that Obama didn't get a lot more votes than Hillary. LOL AJ; August 18, 2008 5:35 PM
Independent Voter said...: Well screw you too p'd ant.........ROFL......JUST KIDDING! Dammit, get a sense of humor. :); August 18, 2008 5:36 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Awfully funny words coming from a person that has been posting slander and smears against Gov. Bill Richardson.

You are now on ignore.; August 18, 2008 5:36 PM
JayW said...: Hey rich (vtslayer),

Do you really think I care if a guy named after a cookie doesn't like my post? I will just post again.

If you think my post was offensive... well, either you are an idiot or just don’t know Aunt Jean that well.

Someone has to be a voice of reason in here... apparently no one has stepped up in the couple of months I haven't posted in here.
(Yes, I have a life outside of the internet... some of you should try it.)

Anyway... keep being the knight in shining armor coming to Aunt Jean's defense. That and fifty cents may buy you a cup of coffee.; August 18, 2008 5:37 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Leah

this is only your belief which to some doesn't mean a darn thing: As far as the 'dream ticket' the only folks that are pushing that is the TV pundits.

There isn't anyone in the Obama camp that is and none of the original Obama supporters are either.

Wolf, Pat Buchanan, and all the other pundits need to drop the 'dream ticket' bullshit and quit stirring up $hit! The republicans would have a field day if Hillary were on the ticket and it would bring Obama down.; August 18, 2008 5:38 PM
JayW said...: AUNT JEAN,

I WIN!!!!!!
YOU LOSE!!!!!
(Not that that was ever in any doubt.)

Months ago you said you would never respond to anything I ever posted again. I guess you are as weak as I thought! I knew I could bait you... you are so predictable.

So sad.; August 18, 2008 5:40 PM
suzihussein22 said...: i v dave-I have had to help make that decision for my dad and indirectly for my mom's mom. I don't know how to describe the grief and guilt I still have. It was a matter of the choices they had already told us and their quality of life. I thought it was more of individual decisions between relatives and doctors. That's why it's also so important to have a living will done ahead of time.

BTW, I couldn't connect to the article you linked, so this is just a response to your post.; August 18, 2008 5:40 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Dave
I would have to agree with you. It's sad but I don't think that people realize some of the things that goes on. I don't want to live if I am a veg.

Some one talked about a living will well a living will doesn't mean squat in Tenn. AJ; August 18, 2008 5:48 PM
suzihussein22 said...: I don't have the statistics on living wills in TN. I was just using my personal experiences as an example.; August 18, 2008 5:56 PM
Independent Voter said...: soft, here's the link http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080818/ap_on_he_me/med_god_vs_doctors;_ylt=AuT6OS.xUTjSvdvUNfJ7.mN34T0D

I know that it is a hard decision, I too had to make that decision as well for my aunt. The reason that I had to make the decision was because nobody else would do it because of their "faith" that a miracle would be pulled off somehow.

I do agree with the medical directive which Bill and I both have simply because I don't want anyone having to go through what my family went through with my aunt. I don't feel guilt about it simply because there was no way that she could have been saved. Now that is not to mean that I am emotionless or without sadness for having done it, but I don't see the prolonging one's "life" for selfish reasons of not wanting to let go.

I was also a caregiver for 4 years and saw a lot of shit which was barely a fraction of what doctors and nurses have to deal with. I do believe in "breaking the news" in a compassionate way, but at the same time, people (meaning the patient's families) need to understand that if there is nothing that can be done, then there really is no decision to make beyond that.; August 18, 2008 5:59 PM
jean said...: Thanks rich,
The troll # has officially gone to 4.
jean; August 18, 2008 6:01 PM
Independent Voter said...: soft, here's the tinyurl just in case:

http://tiny.cc/VRjDw; August 18, 2008 6:01 PM
Independent Voter said...: LOL jean; August 18, 2008 6:01 PM
Aunt Jean said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; August 18, 2008 6:03 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Suz

I understood that it was based on your personal experience. The reason I said what I did was because I was in nursing and seen it all the time. It was gut wrenching. So I do understand what you went thru. Plus the fact my grandmother had a full code on her. Well just before she died [I was living in Tenn. at the time. I told my mother who was making medical decisions for her r how full codes were on old people and to let grandma go. It was still very hard to say that because I didn't want to let her go.The nurse in me knew what the right thing to do was but the grand daughter didn't want to let her go. AJ; August 18, 2008 6:08 PM
suzihussein22 said...: i v dave-I don't know how they can use their faith to hold on like that. One of my sister's best friends was hit by a drunk driver. She was coming out of a coma when she came down with pneumonia. That process took 4 yrs. It's just not usually going to be an obvious decision. Thanks for the new links.

jean-How many trolls does it take to change a lightbulb? We may never know. The light's on but they're not really home. levity :); August 18, 2008 6:11 PM
Independent Voter said...: Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama '08; August 18, 2008 6:11 PM
suzihussein22 said...: Ooh, that was a close one i v dave. I didn't notice how close it was to a new page. I had popped off to get steaks(on quick sale) and potatoes ready to grill.; August 18, 2008 6:14 PM
Independent Voter said...: I hear ya suzi. That's what I was thinking too as far as hanging on. Like AJ, I personally do not want to live as a veg. I was horrified when Congress got involved in the Terri Schaivo case. I couldn't believe they got involved in a family dispute. I was also disgusted with the government's actions in the Elian Gonzales case (I think that was his name) when they sent him back to Cuba after his mother died on the trip here.

That was a good one at the end of your post.; August 18, 2008 6:16 PM
Independent Voter said...: I was paying attention soft ;); August 18, 2008 6:16 PM
Independent Voter said...: By the way, I'm coming over for dinner ok? LOL; August 18, 2008 6:17 PM
suzihussein22 said...: peevish-I hope that storm Friday night didn't cause you any damage. I was inside Guadalaguara for our rehearsal dinner. I had a mucho buena margarita, mmm.; August 18, 2008 6:17 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Suz

I like that part about the trolls. You have a sharp mind. AJ; August 18, 2008 6:18 PM

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