Democratic Convention Watch: Open Thread

Tuesday, April 01, 2008

Open Thread

WE'VE MOVED! Democratic Convention Watch is now at http://www.DemocraticConventionWatch.com

Who's going to win, who has a better chance against McCain, or whatever else is on your mind.

We have decided to stop allowing anonymous comments. Not because we don't like reading what people have to say but because Blogger has introduced a new "feature" that makes you go to a second page when the number of comments go over 200.

It's very easy to set up a Google account so that you can continue commenting.

And please be excellent to one another. We do not accept name calling or any attacks on our commenters. Any objectionable comments will be deleted. Try to be civil.

Thanks!

Previous Open Thread here
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845 comments:

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jpsedona said...: Ed,

The other factor about Obama is that he's not rummaged through Hillary's baggage. The Republicans are not going to be so civil. Even if the Repubs ignore all of guilt by association (hillary - Bill), there's so many things in her past that media's attention on Obama's association with Wright will look like child's play.; May 06, 2008 10:46 AM
UUbuntu said...: Good morning,

Pablo -- you don't need to go through older threads to track down my views on Clinton. I put links in my posts. :-) People on this board have asked for "reasonable explanations of support for Clinton".

Some other/older links to my posts on this board: here, here, here, and here. The whole thread (bizarre tirades and all) starts here

---

To everyone who contributed answers to my question, I thank you. I find these answers enlightening. The fact that Yamaka chose himself (!), Bill Clinton and Hillary Clinton (along with the self-promotion) says a lot about Yamaka. The fact that some of the most prolific posters on this board -- Jim, (7 posts since then), leah (13 posts) and Aunt Jean (over 30 posts!) -- chose not to participate despite having almost 50 posts after mine provides some insight into their view of what matters to them -- at least as regards their participation on this board. Keryl's mention of Nelson Mandela, Ed's mention of Mandela, Tutu and Carter and softspoken22's mention of the Dali Lama and Margaret Thatcher (Thatcher??) all indicate an interest in people and events beyond the USA. As a person who grew up in South Africa in the 1960s, the mention of Mandela by two people -- a man who spent 27 years in prison, and once released, managed to manage a country away from the precipice of civil war simply through words -- warmed my heart. But I thought that softspoken22's indication of Paul Harvey -- a broadcast-news commentator whom I haven't thought of in many years -- showed an interest in world changes beyond the political or revolutionary.

Again, I'd like to thank everyone who participated so far. When we talk about others, we usually think about ourselves. And when we talk about those we admire, we usually think about ourselves as we wish we could be. On this day of continued primary voting, let's all think about the best within ourselves.; May 06, 2008 10:49 AM
jpsedona said...: Jean,

Sorry, but you're dealing with opinion on impeachement, I'm dealing with fact. Do a little research... I'm sure you wouldn't be saying he wasn't impeached if you were aware of the facts.; May 06, 2008 10:51 AM
UUbuntu said...: Careful, guys -- Nancy's a spammer. His posts have been all over the internet:
here
here
here
here
here
and here
There are dozens more links to exactly the same words.

It's a reprint of a right-wing columnist, who keeps it up to date here. Keep in mind that this is how Alan Peters describes himself on that site: "Ex Navy, Currently Republican, Always Conservative. Jihadists? Nuke Em 'Til they glow."

Don't engage with spammers.; May 06, 2008 10:51 AM
Aunt Jean said...: ipsedona and ed I feel sorry for you two. You think obama hasn't rummaged through Hillary's baggage He has dug and dug and dug and if you think he hasn't I have some ocean front property in Arizona to sell you.As far as the other the media likes to spin things more so on the networks that support obama. They want hom in there because they know that McCain can beat him but not Hillary...Hillary Clinton our nexr POTUS....Jean; May 06, 2008 10:54 AM
Keryl said...: Emit: Great post. Thanks for bring actual issues back to the board. One nitpick: most illegal immigrants actually pay taxes, but don't get benefits. So while I agree that we need to inforce the laws, it will take about $7 billion away from the us. Here's a link to a NY Times article about the issue. http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/05/business/05immigration.html; May 06, 2008 10:55 AM
RobH said...: jp,

I'm afraid on point 2) your attempt to educate her about the distinction between "impeachment as the charge" vs. her belief that "impeachment means he's guilty" will not turn out well.

She never admits a mistake, just yells louder. And when that fails, she heads for name calling. I'm afraid you should hunker down for some incoming "fat-face", "doo-doo head", and "turd-brains."; May 06, 2008 10:55 AM
Yamaka said...: Good Morning Democrats:

Another cloudy day in Houston, rain expected. Good for my pool, bad for the construction industry!

Folks,

Another Conversation with BHO Jr

-Assalamu Alaikum, Senator BHO. How are you, Sir?

-Alaikum Assalam Yamaka, my man. I am tired and I am very worried. I want you to pray for me!

-Senator, why so much worry? IN is in your backyard, part of it got tons of positive beaming from Chicago for more than a year. IN is your home turf Senator, you should do very well with a double digit. What's really happening in IN?

- Well, Yama, you are right, I MUST win IN, it is like IL - my home ground. But the problem is now people know me inside out; the more they know me, the less they like me, so much so my popularity has taken a massive beating - I could very well lose IN to your "Million Dollar Girl" that highly energetic, enthusiastic high octane tough Girl from NY. Man..Man.. Yama, that hurts a lot. I spent tons and tons of money everyday. My BigMoneyBags shovel so much Street Money, but nothing works. It did not work in TX, OH and PA - the bellwether battleground States. Why would it work in IN?

- Sen. I see your point. I feel your pain. But how about NC? Can you replicate the MS miracle here? Your "Black People" are here to save you. You should fee good about it.

- Well Yama. Things have changed since Wright Drama. Now the good Black folks don't believe me; I am biracial, brought up in a comfortable White family - my Toot did everything for me. I did not suffer any way or shape or form because of my light brown skin. Thinking Blacks wont accept me, I went to Wright to get his blessings and support. He vouched for my bogus "Blackness". But now people hate Wright. There goes my credibility as a true Black candidate. You call me a carpetbagger - you are right, indeed. Well, I did what I did just to get Black votes; it worked in MS and VA. I am not sure whether it would work in NC. Your Girl has campaigned here very vigorously. I may even lose here, for all I know.

What kills me is this: past two months I have lost 3 major battlegrounds TX OH and PA. I MUST win both IN and NC to stay even, above the water. Even if I lose one of them, then my title as "the Front-Runner" becomes NULL and VOID. That's the pain you see it in my thin slender face - the melancholy strings and strains that crisscross my entire body. I can't sleep, I can't think straight, I don't eat! Ya, Michelle eats a lot, gaining all the weight. She is stupid and irresponsible, as always. She is part of my problem. I hate these women in general. They are real pests, I have drown them all in the Sea.

- Senator, I predict that you will lose IN by 5-9% margin, and win NC by 5% margin, so it will be a kind of tie. Will it make you happy?

- No, No, No, Yama, the God of Death, I need both to survive in this Fight. I have lost many important rounds to your Girl. I MUST win both IN and NC to stay politically alive. Otherwise, I am a dead meat. The media would grind me to a paste!!

_ Well Senator, I pray for your mental health. What happened to your Silver tongue that you used in IA? Are you tongue-tide these days?Very shameful of every LIES you threw in your early Campaign?

- Yama. Be kind to me. I need you. I got to run. Allahu Akbar Mohammed urrasoolilahi Allahu Akbar. Bye Yama. Insha Allah, I will be alive this evening.

-Bye Sen. Take care.

________________________________

Oh well, Another Satirical Monologue with BHO. Enjoy.
________________________________
Ed:

Please read the total popular vote including FL and MI difference: Hillary is leading by 122K. You may leave out whatever your fancy dictates. But I want ALL votes cast. I am for Full Inclusive Democracy of All 50 States.
________________________________

Dave nc:

BHO barely leads in total delegate by just 12 and HRC leads in popular vote by 122k. Will this make you happy with gaiety?!

Cheers. Smile and Vote for Hillary.
:-); May 06, 2008 10:57 AM
RobH said...: Ed,

Thanks for the quote. That really is the heart of the matter, IMO.

Here's another version I found enlightening (I like it simple)
(but with apologies to HRC supporters who will not appreciate the 'indictment.')

"It takes greater strength to exercise restraint than it does to lash out. HRC's method of campaigning is not strong-its weak. It appeals to the least within people..not the best.; May 06, 2008 11:00 AM
jpsedona said...: RobH,

Yes, you're probably right about being me being tarred and feathered for fact-checking Jean. I think that one can turn the other cheek when it comes to personal insults.; May 06, 2008 11:01 AM
Aunt Jean said...: ipsedona I'm not going to argue you see it one way and I see it the right way. You have the right to think like you do. In my eyes he was never empeached have read up on it but didn't look at just one place. Please leave it at that. Jean; May 06, 2008 11:03 AM
Aunt Jean said...: robh so obama's sly remarks and rudeness is what? Jean; May 06, 2008 11:05 AM
UUbuntu said...: Actually, Alan Peters isn't the author of "Nancy's" piece. He only reprinted it on townhall.com, stating it was from "a friend". "Nancy's" piece started as an email campaign where the author(s) appear to be unknown, and there is no source for the information. It continues to gain circulation around political websites, but it has not sources or authorship.

Until we have sources for the authorship of this kind of information, I believe it should be taken as seriously as v1@grA emails, and the posters of such material should be viewed in the same light as the sellers of such stuff who clog our spam filters.

I write this not to demean "Nancy", but just as a reminder to myself and to everyone here that posts like his are not original work and are not worthy or reading or responding to in any way.

As MKSinSA says many times here "By their works ye shall know them" (Matthew 7:16, NOT Luke 13:26); May 06, 2008 11:13 AM
RobH said...: And now for something completely different. I've been thinking of this lately:

What do you suppose parents (whose families abide by the Santa Claus tradition), will be telling their kids, about 30 years from now? You, know, like about the North Pole, Santa's workshop, reindeer, sleighs, etc? How's that going to fade? With a thud?; May 06, 2008 11:17 AM
RobH said...: Jean,

"rudeness"? Share a real example if you please. Thx.; May 06, 2008 11:18 AM
ed iglehart said...: Softlyspoken,

Welcome aboard this crazy bus. Your observation regarding Obama, "Obama says we more than me." is very germane.

Elsewhere someone implied we may not know why we support our chosen candidates, and "we more than me" is a major part of my reason for liking Obama. I think the use of third-person pronouns is a major indication of perceived dis-empowerment, and it can be noted in many conversations.... "you know what they should do?...They always help themselves...They're part of the problem, not the solution...etc."

Another reason I like Barack.

And can't warm to Hillary. I think she should eat more fruit.

xx
ed

http://home.btconnect.com/tipiglen/barack.jpg; May 06, 2008 11:20 AM
Bull Schmitt said...: On the Guam recount, here's the story as it came out at the time:

(from pacificnewscenter.com)

9:00 a.m. Guam - Uncertified figures from the Democrat nominating committee show that Senator Barack Obama won the island's caucus by seven votes.

Obama had been leading Senator Hillary Clinton by seven percentage points leading into the results of Dededo, which had the largest turnout on Guam.

Josh Tenorio from the Obama camp said he is concerned about the results, particularly because of the large number of spoiled ballots. Both he and Clinton representative Rena Borja are confident the nominating committee will take that into consideration before certifying the results.

Borja says she isn't planning on challenging the results, instead choosing to court the uncommitted Superdelegates...

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Now if your candidate lost by 7 votes out of 4500 cast, wouldn't it make sense that they would be the side having concerns about uncounted ballots, while the side that narrowly won would be more likely to say they would not challenge the results?

Based on the statements at the time, it doesn't appear likely that a recount would favor Sen. Clinton.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

And to touch on a point that came up last night, the prosecution rested in the Rezko trial yesterday, and the defense indicated that they would not call any witnesses, as they feel the government did not make its case. That's legalese for "there will be no more testimony". Any opponents of Sen. Obama holding out for an unexpected bombshell there will have to find something else.; May 06, 2008 11:20 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Excuse me I've never called anyone on this post fat-face", "doo-doo head", and "turd-brains I was calling andrews fat face because he does have a fat face! Jean; May 06, 2008 11:24 AM
Aunt Jean said...: ed obama smile is telling me S U C K E R S!! ....lol lol! and Clintons smile is WE can make it better because I know how!!! Jean; May 06, 2008 11:29 AM
Aunt Jean said...: bull so obama got lucky again it's surprising that it's not all over the news go figure. I have to admit that he covers his tracks well or at least most of them! Jean; May 06, 2008 11:34 AM
Yamaka said...: tyler:

I want to see in you an element of humor. You come across as very prosaic to me.

Where is your poetry?

BHO captured most of the College Kids by his poetry!

Any way, to the most important matter on our hand:

It is inconceivable for me to think you don't have a clear stand on 48 States (DNC's) vs 50 States in the Democratic Primary Battle!

I am for ALL 50 States to have the same full rights, as it will be in the GE.

Cheer, Smile and Vote for Hillary.

:-); May 06, 2008 11:47 AM
ed iglehart said...: What's causing gas prices?

Today's futures:
Last Change Settle
Crude Oil 121.57 1.60 119.97
Gold, June 881.4 7.3 874.1

Happy Motoring!
xx
ed; May 06, 2008 11:50 AM
Anonymous said...: Pablo,
“cut and paste below”
Thank god your grandkids can cut and paste for you.

Come on back by when you get a thought of your own.
How do you know Nancy did not have those thoughts?
By the way please capitalize God
PROOF PLEASE.
JP,
Your SD fixation continues.
Dave, Did you vote yet?
My relatives in NC voted six to three for Clinton. Sanford and New Bern both look to be slightly leaning to Clinton based on my exit polls.; May 06, 2008 11:51 AM
UUbuntu said...: Emit -- Thank you for your post on the issues in front of us. I hope it serves to remind all of us what the issues here are:

On the war, McCain (and Bush) are dead wrong. Period. This war costs us $300,000 per minute, and does absolutely nothing to improve the condition of people in that part of the world or the security of our country. Clinton and Obama are right, though I would prefer a more unequivocal statement from each of them regarding our presence in Iraq and how we will leave.

On oil prices, I don't see any change in policy by McCain that will correct the situation. Certainly maintaining a presence in Iraq (and expanding it to Iran) won't help things at all. Clinton's and Obama's stances are dramatically better on this issue.

On NAFTA, I don't see a major difference between any of the candidates (McCain, Clinton or Obama) on this issue. While recent speeches by Clinton and Obama have indicated opposition to NAFTA (and distorted their opponents' views), most of their candidates' position papers don't show a major change in policy in this regard. Please post links if I'm incorrect.

On "Illegal Immigrants" (I assume you mean the policy positions regarding improving our immigration policy/immigration reform -- Clinton's, Obama's, and McCain's), I don't see much difference here between any of the candidates or the policy of Bush. Certainly none of the posted policies are as conservative as is desired by the Republican Party platform. In fact, immigration may be the only issue I feel that Bush and McCain have been reasonably good on. But then, immigration reform isn't something I get particularly passionate about.

On American Spending Habits, there's not much difference between the candidates, and this isn't much of a campaign issue. Obama seems to be more willing to say to Americans that we need to take care of each other in addition to taking care of ourselves (Clinton used to say such things). Obama also seems more willing to eschew "quick fix" policies like the "gas tax holiday" than the others. However, the issue of American Spending Habits goes far deeper than the candidates themselves, and it will take a sea-change in attitude for us to acknowledge our own complicity in the current and future condition of our society. I point to Yamaka's repeated statements about the condition of his swimming pool as a sign of his success as an example of the problem of our spending habits. We care more about our possessions than our families, more about our families than our neighbors, more about our neighbors than our countrymen, and more about our countrymen than about humanity.

Thank you again for bringing up these issues. They are more important (and more interesting) than much of what we talk about on this board.; May 06, 2008 11:52 AM
UUbuntu said...: From Yamaka -- "tyler:

I want to see in you an element of humor. You come across as very prosaic to me."

Thank you? Forgive me, but I don't really understand what you mean by this. I've never really thought of myself as prosaic, but then again, I don't think of any of us as generic or ordinary.; May 06, 2008 11:58 AM
ed iglehart said...: Jean,

I could've done worse!

Credit where credit is due!

;-)
ed; May 06, 2008 12:01 PM
Yamaka said...: "I point to Yamaka's repeated statements about the condition of his swimming pool as a sign of his success as an example of the problem of our spending habits."

Oh tyler:

You can't take a joke! an innocent humor!! You are very serious to me.

Regarding my spending habits:

I am a fiscally conservative hard worker. You may say I built around me a very happy successful family because of hard thinking, hard working and risk taking: the reward is, at age 58, with a girl in Cornell U and a son in Stanford U, I can pay for them fully (60K a year per student) AND happily swim in my pool like a careless fish!!

I earn tons, and spend frugally. My April 08, investment income topped U$50K !!! You need not believe it. But it happened last week!! I do NOT have any Debt, and I fully own my 5 bedroom house and the pool!!!

I can easily cut a check to Hillary to the maximum. I want to do to Gov Dean's DNC, provided they opt for ALL States and ALL Votes philosophy.

Socially, I am a liberal. But I cannot vote for a biracial who acts like a "Black" whose forefathers did not carry the scars of slavery, discrimination, segregation and the attendant misery!

Now You have some idea, who I am! Just one simple American with a flair for freedom, fairness, hard work, hard thinking and open discussion!! Nothing more, nothing less.

Cheer, Smile and Vote for Hillary.
:-)

Cheers.; May 06, 2008 12:14 PM
UUbuntu said...: From Yamaka -- "BHO captured most of the College Kids by his poetry! Any way, to the most important matter on our hand: It is inconceivable for me to think you don't have a clear stand on 48 States (DNC's) vs 50 States in the Democratic Primary Battle!"

First, I don't support Obama -- yet. I support Clinton, and have for a long time.

Second, my stance on this issue is simple. The DNC, the delegations of FL and MI, and the campaigns of Clinton and Obama will come to a mutually agreeable settlement on this issue. Either that, or the DNC will impose their will. It's the DNC's convention, and the DNC makes the rules. We can whine about the officiating of the contest, but that's as useful as whining about the officiating at a basketball game.

My stance on this? The FL/MI issue is uninteresting and a waste of time.; May 06, 2008 12:16 PM
UUbuntu said...: Yamaka -- Don't get me wrong, I don't dislike you, and frankly, many of your posts are hilarious.

I want to congratulate you on having had a successful and rewarding life. A person who works hard and manages wealth well deserves the life you lead.; May 06, 2008 12:20 PM
ed iglehart said...: Yamaka,

"Socially, I am a liberal. But I cannot vote for a biracial who acts like a "Black" whose forefathers did not carry the scars of slavery, discrimination, segregation and the attendant misery!"

Not really very liberal, then, are we?

I thought his "white" granny had a touch of Afro-American blood, too? Maybe I was mistaken because I heard it on the internet....

As to discrimination, I'm sure he's experienced plenty. As to the legacy of slavery, who's to say his Kenyan ancestors didn't sell a few other folk to the traders? My white Southern ancestors certainly owned a few, and I suspect one of being a 'trader'. Thankfully, that's in the distant past.

xx
ed; May 06, 2008 12:23 PM
UUbuntu said...: Oh and one last link, partly for you Yamaka, but mostly as a reminder to all of us who read this board a little too often.

Cheers (and Roebuck). I'll post again in a week or two, but I'll keep reading :-); May 06, 2008 12:34 PM
Yamaka said...: "The FL/MI issue is uninteresting and a waste of time."-tyler.

I understand.

We see the world differently.

I have this odd view that passionate people can intervene and intercede in the very obvious anti-democratic principle a National Party -DNC- follows because of its self-destructive current Officials! Suicidal people can be really helped, IMHO!!

By the way, I admire Hillary's intrepid suggestion of a "Gas Tax Holiday" to leave a few bucks in the pockets of the earners. I can feel how helpful those $20 will be to very low income people, for I was there just some 20 years ago!!

Good day!
:-); May 06, 2008 12:39 PM
Bull Schmitt said...: Yamaka -

I can respect that you're trying to make the strongest possible case for your candidate of choice, and I understand that your efforts are hamstrung by the facts in existence that metaphorically require you to try and make chicken salad out of chicken... droppings.

That said, your continued insistence on pretending that the Florida and Michigan beauty contests are part of the current nomination battle are part of a narrative only the most strident Clinton supporters are clinging to. Put another way, Florida and Michigan making the difference in this battle will only happen in places like hillaryis44.org - i.e. "Fantasyland".

(Particularly the part where you presume that no one in the entire state of Michigan would have voted for Sen. Obama, and that he would have received no delegates.)

Even though your side is entirely void of reasonable measures of "winning", this is a laughable argument that deserves mocking. Outside of Fantasyland, no one is taking this seriously. Not the majority of voters, not the media, not the DNC, and most importantly - not the Superdelegates.

Sen. Clinton's campaign may be able to get the issue referred to the Credentials Committee, but the Superdelegates will have broken long before that comes up, and they will speak with such force that the FL/MI issue will be moot in any case.

It's a shame that Sen. Clinton chose to demagogue the revote issue, Florida could be a very tough state to win now - although Sen. Obama is already out-polling Sen. Clinton in Michigan (at least in GE matchups). Personally, I thought her biggest mistake was waiting so long to call for re-votes that she clearly needed after it turned out Sen. Obama won Super Tuesday, and had substantial demographic advantages in upcoming February primaries.; May 06, 2008 12:51 PM
Dave in NC said...: Jim,

I would expect Clinton to get at least 6 votes. We are not a highly educated state.

I voted over 2 weeks ago on the first day of early voting.

I'm told 10-20% of all votes may have been cast early unless record turnout dilutes the early votes.

Record turnout, by the way, would favor Obama.

My exit polls among the early voter favor Obama by AT LEAST 4 to 1.

BTW, How's that recount in Guam going for ya?; May 06, 2008 1:00 PM
RobH said...: Ed,

Thanks for the link. I was going to post row2, colD, and row4, colB as the real killers. But then I realized they all are (entire colA for example.); May 06, 2008 1:02 PM
Dave in NC said...: tyler,

We DO know they are dogs, and we respect their right to be dogs.

:); May 06, 2008 1:02 PM
Yamaka said...: bull s:

I see the passion in your argument.

I just disagree.

The SDs can simply ask certain obvious questions:

1. Who is hurt by not allowing the FL and MI (Dean: The voters did not do anything wrong, only the politicians/Officials did)delegates?

2. Who has a broader coalition of White working class men and most of White women, the backbone for the GE (Blacks and Latinos cancel each other as a group)?

3. Who has fewer Scandals going to the GE?

4. Who has the experience and passion to work for the American people from Day One?

5. According to Bill Clinton, the only Democrat who won the Presidency twice with 370-379 Electoral Votes, who is the most qualified and quite ready to take the Oval Office?

The answer is HRC resoundingly.

If they don't want all these attributes, and still want to commit suicide in the GE, they can by all means do so. That's my view of the situation regarding the FL, MI, SDs and the GE!

Cheer, Smile and Vote for Hillary.
:-); May 06, 2008 1:07 PM
Pablo said...: Mr. Jim

"How do you know Nancy did not have those thoughts?"

The fact that I have seen the exact same post multiple times and he/she has copied it word for word here now, is what proves to me it wast his/her own thoughts.

I am happy though as of yet I have not seen the same vile spam posts about HRC "about Lesbianism, links to the nazi party, links to all the murders while in office, etc," that are going around, posted by any Obama supporters. At least so far. I would be equally unhappy if they did.; May 06, 2008 1:12 PM
Dave in NC said...: ed,

Your link raises the question - is there even ONE flattering picture of Clinton in existance?

I guess a machine politician is bound to look like a machine.

Although my Lotus takes extreme offense to that comment.

:); May 06, 2008 1:13 PM
UUbuntu said...: Must...resist...pull...of...replying...

Doh!

From Yamaka -- "I have this odd view that passionate people can intervene and intercede in the very obvious anti-democratic principle a National Party -DNC- follows because of its self-destructive current Officials! Suicidal people can be really helped, IMHO!!"

We agree on this much: The DNC primary process, the RNC primary process and the Electoral College are antidemocratic institutions designed to nominate/elect people who may not represent the will of the people. Direct Democracy -- the candidate with the most votes wins the election -- is the way we *should* do things, and I'm glad you're passionate to solve this problem. Let's work together to eliminate the Electoral College first, as it's the most egregious example of voter disenfranchisement. After that, we can work on private groups' nominating processes, like the processes of the the DNC and the RNC. Or you should join the DNC and work on changing the rules from within the organization.

As to the Clinton/McCain gas tax proposal, Stephen Colbert was better than I could possibly be. You'll need to go to the "The Word" segment from this site.

To Dave in NC -- As to the dogs -- we know the dogs and they are us! Oh, and make sure you vote today -- Hillary needs your support ;-)

Thanks.; May 06, 2008 1:16 PM
ed iglehart said...: "Yamaka,

"The answer is HRC resoundingly."

It is if you're blind.
xx
ed; May 06, 2008 1:24 PM
Dave in NC said...: tyler,

My point exactly.

I voted 2 weeks ago.

Today I work the phone banks.

A construction crane couldn't support Clinton in Mecklenburg county.

:); May 06, 2008 1:27 PM
Yamaka said...: "I would expect Clinton to get at least 6 votes. We are not a highly educated state".- dave nc.

Very Funny! It's going to be very close. The Skinny may win by about 5% margin, my prediction.

Folks:

Hillary has gotten about 15.5 million votes about 122K more than BHO. (total about 31 million).

There are about another 35 million out there potentially Left leaning American voters who have NOT attended the Primary, but will definitely vote in the GE.

The key question is whether they will lean Left on seeing HRC/BHO or lean Right on seeing McCain at the Debate?

IMHO, imagine like this:

McCain Vs Hillary : Two well known Brand Names in American Politics. A War Hero, a veteran Public Servant and a War-lover Vs A veteran Public Servant who wants to break open the Glass Ceiling, bring home the boys from the War and bring back the prosperous economy of the 1990s.

They will lean Left and we have won the WH and the Congress.

McCain Vs BHO.

They will lean Right, and we will lose both the WH and the Congress.

SDs, please think hard and act fast. Or you can take the Democratic Party to the cleaners!

:-); May 06, 2008 1:28 PM
Dave in NC said...: To Yam, Jim, Anti Jean, and my other friends in Texas, where it is legal to shoot the repo man:

Change the tin foil on the rabbit ears, tune in the ole black & white and git ready, it' 'lection day, YEEEE HAAAW!

The results will be a-comin' in soon!

:); May 06, 2008 1:32 PM
Anonymous said...: Dave,
"BTW, How's that recount in Guam going for ya?"
I already answered that earlier.

How you Gonna ship my beer?; May 06, 2008 1:33 PM
Dave in NC said...: BTW, Jim,

How's that recount in Guam going for ya?; May 06, 2008 1:35 PM
Dave in NC said...: Jim,

I must have missed it.

You'll have to come up here for the beer.

Since you'r buying, I'll let you know we DO accept Texas currency.

:); May 06, 2008 1:37 PM
Yamaka said...: dave nc:

You haven't given your margin of victory for BHO in NC and IN as yet!?

It will help to establish the bragging rights tonight.

Mine is in my Satirical Conversation with BHO above.

:-); May 06, 2008 1:45 PM
Anonymous said...: Dave, You can bring it down to Myrtle Beach in August.
I will be Playing in the World Am Golf Tournament.
Or you could bring it to Sanford where I will be visiting my son after the tourney.
If by some quirk I lose, you can come on down I'll pop you a cool one.; May 06, 2008 1:48 PM
Dave in NC said...: Jim,

I believe that article is referring to a recount for a local office, not a recount of the presidential vote.

The Clinton representative in Guam has said that they will not challenge the vote and the Clinton campaign said they will respect that opinion.

So, I believe you owe everybody a beer.

:); May 06, 2008 1:54 PM
Dave in NC said...: Yam,

My prediction is that after today, Obama will be even farther ahead in pledged delegate count and further ahead in the totally irrelevant but, yet obiquitous, popular vote.

What are we betting my friend? A peyote cooler?

:)

Peace brother, and keep that pool and the rest of us shocked.; May 06, 2008 1:58 PM
Amot said...: Gents, there will be no recount for either local office or presidential candidates. All results allow large margin of error so GU Dems decided to settle down and work united instead of bark on each other as you do!; May 06, 2008 1:59 PM
Dave in NC said...: Yam,

Close only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades.

But I probably shouldn't put THAT idea in your mind.; May 06, 2008 2:01 PM
Emit R Detsaw said...: Issue 2 (Economy was issue 1)

The War:

I am all for the war, the war on terrorism, not the war in IRAQ. First I have to state however, that if the Clinton administration would have acted on the intelligence we probably would still have the twin towers standing (but that is a different subject). Bush lost focus on the primary objective and has destroyed the efforts to fight terrorism. He tied up the majority of our deployable forces fighting a war for his own profit and devises. Yes Saddam was an evil leader, but we can not invade and kill every evil leader in the world (though I feel we could use the CIA a bit better – if you know what I mean). But we are in the quagmire called IRAQ with very few good options. I’ll attack it from the political angle:

McSame: I know he is called a war hero for getting capture and enduring hell in Vietnam. At least he served in the military during war time. You would think that would make him smarter towards the war in IRAQ and some of the comments he has made. We can not have a Korea style of military existence in IRAQ. That would require building 3 Demilitarization zones.

Clinton: Her position moves a bit, but she has stated that she will bring the troops out. But there have been conflicting reports that she want’s to leave a presence there or something like that. Hard to know just what she means or is pandering sometimes. Having served in the military during the first Clinton administration, I know they don’t have much respect for the military. That’s from personal experience.

Obama: He has been against the IRAQ war even before the first soldier was deployed for Gulf War 2. But how would he get the troops out? A brigade or 2 a month? Would there be times when pauses would be implemented? I agree with him that you have to tell the Iraqi leadership that we are taking the troops out to get them to move. And I agree that the troops are needed in Afghanistan to go after Bin Laden and the main body of the terrorist ring, but it’s more global than that.

The Objective (initial one) of Gulf War 2 was to eliminate Saddam and to ensure that the Weapons of Mass Destruction were eliminated. So in a way, when Bush said Mission Accomplished over 5 years ago, it was. Congress has been financing a military deployment to kill and be killed that is not the original war objective. Time to unfund the “war” and get our troops where they are protecting American interests!; May 06, 2008 2:13 PM
Bull Schmitt said...: Yamaka @ 1:07-

1. Who is hurt by not allowing the FL and MI (Dean: The voters did not do anything wrong, only the politicians/Officials did)delegates?

Sen. Clinton, because she desperately needs those results to have any chance. But again, no one outside her most strident supporters agree that the elections were remotely legitimate. For every disenfranchised FL or MI voter you can show me, I could show you another who didn't vote in the beauty contests that were declared in advance as not mattering toward the nomination. Sen. Clinton herself is on record saying that the two renegade primaries would not matter. At least she was saying that until IA, NH, NV and SC voted.

2. Who has a broader coalition of White working class men and most of White women, the backbone for the GE (Blacks and Latinos cancel each other as a group)?

White working class men are a Republican voting block. The people keeping Sen. Clinton alive in this race will be voting against her, if she were to somehow advance to the general election. Women will have to consider (among many things) whether they want Sen. Obama or McSame potentially replacing John Paul Stevens and Ruth Bader Ginsburg. I think it's fair to say that Sen. Clinton would have a harder time getting the disaffected voter, and youth constituencies of Sen. Obama to stick with her. To say nothing of trying to energize the AA vote under a scenario where she stole the nomination from him via "Superdelegate coup".

3. Who has fewer Scandals going to the GE?

Okay, I have to mock you again for this one.. as Chris Matthews would say - HAH!! Whitewater was a scandal. Rezko is not a scandal (and incidentally, testimony in his trial has ended) Rev. Wright is not a scandal, Rev. Wright is an excuse for people that don't want to vote for the black guy.

- - - - - - - - - -
Mark Brown, Chicago Sun-Times:

"Barack Obama is not Jeremiah Wright.

We've never heard Obama say any of the things that got Wright in trouble because Obama doesn't believe those things.

No amount of slicing and dicing of old videotapes will make Obama seem scary because he isn't scary.

Being a member of Wright's church doesn't make him a disciple.

There's no secret black agenda that Obama is waiting to promote if he becomes president.

Those who have convinced themselves otherwise are betraying something about themselves."
- - - - - - - - - - - -

I hear Sen. Clinton's people are making this very argument to the Supers (notice who is still getting Super endorsements 2:1 during this time). If that's the argument they want to make, they should make it clearly, and publicly.

Scandals are people in your campaign working for Colombia on the very same trade deal your candidate says she's against. And your husband, too. Scandals are where the $500,000,000 for the Clinton foundation came from, and what do contributors expect in return? Just because the Republicans are tag-teaming with the Clintons for the moment, don't think they don't have 20 years of oppo research ready to go should Hillary get the nomination.

4. Who has the experience and passion to work for the American people from Day One?

Experience? McSame has Clinton beat easily. Passion? Sen. Obama has more volunteers, grass-roots donations, coattails, legitimate votes, pledged delegates, and superdelegates from elected officials. Right now Sen. Clinton has more superdelegates from generally anonymous DNC party insiders. (Not to mention the highest negatives of any of the three major candidates still running.)

5. According to Bill Clinton, the only Democrat who won the Presidency twice with 370-379 Electoral Votes, who is the most qualified and quite ready to take the Oval Office?

Frankin Delano Roosevelt and his 472, 523, 449, and 432 Electoral votes would like a word with you. Or did you mean that no other Democrat has ever won the Presidency with precisely 370 or 379 EVs? It would be typical of a Clinton supporter to parse words that closely. I think you'd better stop with these laughable arguments before you're hit by sniper fire. Sen. Clinton isn't even the most qualified and ready person in her own *family to be President. I'm not even sure she's second - Chelsea seems to make a good impression on the campaign trail.

Pardon me if I don't keep swatting down your increasingly ridiculous arguments ;); May 06, 2008 2:15 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Aunt Jean,

I understand that for you facts are sometimes hard and unsettling. But the fact is that Senator Obama received the 3 Illinois add-ons yesterday May 5th. Just because DCW did not add two of them to the DCW list because they waited for a 'more' valid source does not mean that Senator Obama did not receive them yesterday. Just take a look at the articles that DCW used when they added them. The articles ARE dated May 5, 2008. Be careful because spinning will make you dizzy and you will eventually fall down and you might not be able to get up!

OBAMA / Kathleen Sebelius '08; May 06, 2008 2:15 PM
Dave in NC said...: Oh, Amot,

The Guamers just don't know how to have fun like we do.

:)

But thank you for confirming my point that there will not be a recount.

So, Jim,

How's that recount in Guam going for ya?

:); May 06, 2008 2:17 PM
ed iglehart said...: Emit,

Another sober assessment. Thanks.

Personally, I reckon we might better fight The War Against Terrorism (TWAT) by assessing the root causes of terrorism, which include perceived injustice, hunger, deprivation, and most uncomfortably, the perception that certain major world powers are behind certain oppressions and/or oppressive regimes.

Treating the causes rather than the symptoms is usually the best advice.

Salaam/Shalom/Shanthi/Dorood/Peace
Namaste -ed; May 06, 2008 2:22 PM
Anonymous said...: Amot,
A recount would prove nothing or for that matter change the delegate count, however from what I read, it is not out of the question yet.
Recent news.
http://www.mvariety.com/?module=displaystory&story_id=11034&format=html.

Dave, ket another, more pertinent
Question; May 06, 2008 2:23 PM
Dave in NC said...: Bull,

You are swatting at mist trying to knock down Yam's comments.

Or should I say swatting at myst which is what Germans call manure.

He is clearly a Republican spam bot.

But it is kinda fun batting him around a little isn't it?; May 06, 2008 2:23 PM
ed iglehart said...: Jim,

Putting a dull stop (period) at the end of a link can cause interesting results.

;-)

http://www.mvariety.com/?module=displaystory&story_id=11034&format=html.; May 06, 2008 2:32 PM
ed iglehart said...: Make that FULL STOP! ;-(; May 06, 2008 2:33 PM
Bull Schmitt said...: Dave in NC @ 2:23 -

Spot on ;)

Still, it's fun to run logical rings around him(?), and as a new poster here, I wanted to sharpen my arguments a bit.

With Yamaka, it's admittedly shooting fish in a barrel.

Cheers!; May 06, 2008 2:43 PM
ed iglehart said...: BOO!; May 06, 2008 3:03 PM
Anonymous said...: ed,
didn't notice the period at the end.
http://www.mvariety.com/?module=displaystory&story_id=11034&format=html; May 06, 2008 3:04 PM
ed iglehart said...: Jim,

I did.; May 06, 2008 3:06 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Less than FOUR HOURS!

OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA '08; May 06, 2008 3:06 PM
Barbara's Beat said...: Petition for former Edwards' supporters for Hillary

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/78/petition-for-former-edwards-supporters-for-hillary; May 06, 2008 3:08 PM
Anonymous said...: Ed, Sharp eyes are better.
Nice beard.; May 06, 2008 3:11 PM
Dave in NC said...: Jim,

OK, here's a pertinent question.

Why can't Clinton's fanatics just give it up since she's down 150 pledged delagates with no hope of catching up?

Obama has-out paced her in supers since March by 2:1.

She has lost 14 of the last 18 contests (15 of 19 if you count the Texas caucuses, and why wouldn't you? Right Yam? count ALL the votes!)

AND, not that it matters at all, but she is still down over half a million popular votes (give or take 500 in Guam).

Just proving that her supportes are loud (and in the case of our friend Jean, REAL loud), but not so numerous.

However, I still would like a comment regarding your post:

"Jim said...
I also predict Clinton will win the popular vote count in Guam after the recount.

May 04, 2008 1:23 PM"

Given that that is not going to be the case.

Can you also explain why the popular vote was worthy of a post then but now your words are "...would prove nothing or for that matter change the delegate count" now that there is going to be no recount?

Remember this train of thought in the event Clinton slides by in IN, but yet picks up either zero or maybe 1 or 2 delegates.

But perhaps the MOST pertinent question, and one that you will have to answer for yourself, is why do you and others continue to try and ride a dead horse?

The debate over who is the best candidate or the one most likely to win the GE is only relevant BEFORE one of the candidates has been eliminated under all reasonable scenarios.

Where were all of your like-minded comrades in 35 or so jurisdictions that voted her down?; May 06, 2008 3:12 PM
Dave in NC said...: ed,

regarding BOO,

LOLOLOLOLOLOL; May 06, 2008 3:14 PM
Dave in NC said...: Oh, darn,

Clinton's lead in Supers is down to 15.5.

She must feel like a short stacked player in a poker tournament.; May 06, 2008 3:26 PM
ed iglehart said...: News

BUSH APPEARS ON TV'S
“DEAL OR NO DEAL”
Where he blasts Congress for holding up Colombian trade deal.

Experts: Gas Could Reach
$10 a Gallon
Which was target price established by Cheney Energy Task Force.

WORLD NEWS
Hamas Offers Israel 10-Year Peace
Followed by 10-year war.
Blair Says Policies Were
Driven by Faith
In George W. Bush.; May 06, 2008 3:38 PM
Anonymous said...: Dave,
"Why can't Clinton's fanatics just give it up since she's down 150 pledged delagates with no hope of catching up?"
Good question.
Answer in the form of a question, why didn't Kansas give up in the finals. They had a Super Coach defector against them and had no chance of winning at the two minute mark?
We have about five minutes left and Obama is not making his free throws.

As for your intellectual advantage over Yamaka. It may just be an elitist dream. IMHO; May 06, 2008 3:39 PM
Dave in NC said...: Jim,

We ain't in a ball game.

Re: Yam, a dream, or common sense. IMHO; May 06, 2008 3:53 PM
Anonymous said...: Another observation;
You Obama folks wish to circumvent the process by ending it early"For The Good of The Party".
I think it is fear of what may come
when the other shoe drops.
True it is difficult for us common,
slow witted, middle class Clintonites to verbally spar with
such self proclaimed superior intellects for Obama, but we try.; May 06, 2008 3:54 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: I think the sports analogies don't cut the mustard here.
In a sports game there is an infinite number of points that a team can gain. In this nomination there is a finite number of delegates and Obama has the majority so far and it is pretty much impossible for the person in second place to catch up.; May 06, 2008 3:55 PM
Dave in NC said...: Jim,

BTW, why can't you answer a question in the form of an answer?; May 06, 2008 3:57 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Jim said: "I think it is fear of what may come"
_________________

Nope, not true.

We want this to end so that the party can come together and start focusing on beating John McCain.

Hillary is the one that is interesting in dragging this out, dividing the party, and bashing her opponent constantly. She is the one doing harm to the party and it must stop if the democrats are going to beat McCain in November.

OBAMA '08; May 06, 2008 3:58 PM
ed iglehart said...: Leah,

AND in a sports game, the rules. as set out in the rule book, are adhered to and the decisions of the referee (on behalf of the game's authority) are respected.

In many sports, too much appealing to the referee will get you thrown out.

xx
ed; May 06, 2008 4:00 PM
Dave in NC said...: Jim,

And given the "immobility due to fear" theory, what are you going to feel like if the other shoe waits until November to drop?; May 06, 2008 4:01 PM
Anonymous said...: Dave,
Just a analogy.
It is ia competition and it is designed to go all the way to Denver and to be decided there.
You and others almost demand that Clinton forfeit her rights and concede early because it looks impossible.
You all are filled with fear an trepidation of what could come.; May 06, 2008 4:02 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Jim-

Are you one of those Rush Limibaugh ditto-heads that are trying to get Clinton the nomination so that McCain will beat her?

I am starting to think there are repubs on this thread promoting Hillary because they know she will not win in November!; May 06, 2008 4:05 PM
Dave in NC said...: Jim,

The process was in no way "designed to go all the way to the convention", and when was the last time that it did?

The convention is a coronation and a show of strength designed to occur in reasonably close proximity to the GE.

I have no doubt of the final outcome and no fear that time could cause an alternative outcome.

Which only leads back to my original question that you still have not answered.; May 06, 2008 4:09 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Clinton In 2005: 'I Agree With McCain' On Long-Term Iraq Presence'

Three years ago, during an appearance on CBS, Sen. Hillary Clinton stated that she agreed with the overarching premise of John McCain's Iraq policy: that America's commitment to the war shouldn't be based on time frames but rather on the level of troop casualties. She even cited, as McCain now regularly does, that the United States would be well suited to follow a model for troop presence based on South Korea, Japan, or Germany.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/05/05/clinton-in-2005-i-agree-w_n_100168.html

OBAMA '08; May 06, 2008 4:09 PM
Dave in NC said...: Jim,

Actually, my ORIGINAL question that you still have not answered is:

How's that recount in Guam working for ya?; May 06, 2008 4:10 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Jim -

No.

OBAMA / Kathleen Sebelius '08

.; May 06, 2008 4:17 PM
Anonymous said...: Dave,
"How's that recount in Guam working for ya?"
Ok, it is working fine for me.; May 06, 2008 4:22 PM
Amot said...: Ed,
my guess is that the referees (Dean&Pelosi) will eventually send someone out! IMHO Clinton has seen the yellow card for her negative campaigning and every fault he commits from now on can mean second yellow => red card => sending out...
Either Clinton will behave or she will be destoyed! Her fans must accept the fact there are powers stronger than her tenacy!; May 06, 2008 4:24 PM
ed iglehart said...: Dance!

xx
ed; May 06, 2008 4:31 PM
Dave in NC said...: Jim,

Well, I do not think you are a Republican any more than I think Yam is a Democrat - and Aunt Jean is just against anyone who will fight with her :)

That said, your response to Leah was the most Republican I have heard on this thread.; May 06, 2008 4:33 PM
Anonymous said...: Dave,
leah asked if I was far right and I simply asked if she was far left.
I do not cherish bleeding heart liberals or socialist.
It was kinda tit for tat gigging.

You do gig, don't you?; May 06, 2008 4:40 PM
Dave in NC said...: Jim,

Oh yes, that is why you are in my creel.

:); May 06, 2008 4:47 PM
Dave in NC said...: (In NC)...Nearly half a million people had already cast early and absentee ballots as of Monday _ more than half the total number of voters who cast a ballot during the 2004 primary. - Huffington Post

Early polling started 2 1/2 WEEKS ago.

What meaning do recent polls have when that percentage has already voted?; May 06, 2008 4:51 PM
Anonymous said...: Dave,
You are sew fishy.
creel >noun 1 a large basket for carrying fish. 2 a rack holding bobbins or spools when spinning.
I believe you are a master at spinning.
I don't have a porta-pottie, could put you in it with Aunt Jean. Just joking; May 06, 2008 5:04 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Lots of the absentee voters were the college people that are out of school now.

The Obama post-election rally party will be at North Carolina State University
Reynolds Coliseum. No tickets are left for the event so it will be packed full! Can't wait to see it!

OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA '08

p.s. I would have also posted the Hillary party info but I never see it on her website - it's a bit secretive over there.; May 06, 2008 5:05 PM
Dave in NC said...: Jim,

There ya go! That was good!; May 06, 2008 5:12 PM
Anonymous said...: The Obama post-election pity party will be at North Carolina State University; May 06, 2008 5:12 PM
Dave in NC said...: ...or should I say, very punny
:); May 06, 2008 5:14 PM
Dave in NC said...: Jim,

You know us Obama people have no pity.

:); May 06, 2008 5:16 PM
Anonymous said...: CNN exit poll.
Voters nearly split on importance of Wright Debacle. A majority of Regular church goers said it affected their vote.; May 06, 2008 5:17 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; May 06, 2008 5:33 PM
Emit R Detsaw said...: Emit’s Election Issue #3

End Illegal Immigration

Let me start off by stating that I do not have a problem with Immigration. Almost all countries have some form of Immigration Law and its there to protect their citizens. I have a problem with people that turn a blind eye on people breaking the law (and yes, I drive the speed limit).

The American Immigration system is broken because the Government fails to enforce the laws that are on the books.

None of the candidates agree with Emit’s stance. Whether that is because it would be political suicide in today’s environment or whatever, all 3 have not done enough over the past, nor have anything in their Issue pages on their websites that indicate that they would be taking a tough stance on the issue.

Emit’s Proposal

1)Close the boarder through tougher enforcement. Walls are scaled or tunneled over, and where there are no walls they simply drive or walk across. This goes for both the Northern and Southern boarders.
2)Deport any and all illegal immigrants. I know your thinking, who is going to pay for this? Simple, you charge the country of origin. If they refuse to pay, you take it out of the debt. Wipe the books clean or collect.
3)No Amnesty for Illegal Aliens that are in this country. They are not undocumented aliens, they are illegal aliens. They have no US citizen rights, they are criminals for Trespassing on federal land. That is a Federal Offense. The border, is Federal Property. They have human rights, but not US rights.
4)The illegal aliens that are in the US now, would have 6 months to leave on their own accord or risk criminal deportation.
5)Those that leave the States on their own accord can apply for work permits/visas, or even citizenship, but anybody criminally deported would not be allowed back in this great country of ours without meeting additional wavier requirements.

This is an issue that was one of the top two issues before the Economy tanked. But if you remember Emit’s Issue #1 – the Economy, Illegal Immigration has been part of the problem with our economy.; May 06, 2008 5:42 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: HRC just went down -2 points from 7 down to 5

FIRST EXIT POLLS:
HILLARY +5 INDIANA, OBAMA +12 NORTH CAROLINA; May 06, 2008 5:45 PM
Dave in NC said...: leah,

Where are you getting those?; May 06, 2008 6:01 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Front page - top headline

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/

.; May 06, 2008 6:05 PM
Dave in NC said...: thx; May 06, 2008 6:07 PM
Sly said...: Yamaka, you make some interesting claims.. it's a shame you dont see reality. Take an honest look at both candidates, take their good as well as their bad, and then decide which one will make the better president.

I dont see how you could not say that Obama is the winner of that..; May 06, 2008 6:10 PM
Dave in NC said...: Exit Polls as of 6:05

Indiana
Obama: 50.5%

Clinton: 49.5%

North Carolina
Obama: 60%

Clinton: 38%

Remembering that nearly half a million votes were cast early in NC with heavy early voting in IN as well and, therefore would not be part of an exit poll.; May 06, 2008 6:24 PM
Bull Schmitt said...: Dave in NC -

Remember that early exits have been tending to favor Obama by 5-7 points for the most part. I have a theory that his superior GOTV means a larger percentage of his voters are out early.

I'll certainly take those numbers at the end of the night ;); May 06, 2008 6:30 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: I like watching results on CNN because you can run your mouse over the counties and see the individual results:

Indiana:

http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/primaries/results/state/#IN

North Carolina

http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/primaries/results/state/#NC

Indiana has some results in but it is way too early.; May 06, 2008 6:32 PM
Dave in NC said...: bull,

You are absolutely right. I've seen that point made in the past.

Not to mention the Operation Chaos people who may be inclined to lie.; May 06, 2008 6:37 PM
Dave in NC said...: leah,

You are just too good, I can't keep up with you.

And I'm bangin' around on 6 browsers.; May 06, 2008 6:39 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: If you watch the counties on the CNN links I posted above you have to remember to refresh the page every once and awhile.; May 06, 2008 6:39 PM
Dave in NC said...: I've just been elected dinner fetcher, I'll be back in a bit.

Peace friends; May 06, 2008 6:40 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Obama just got a new super-delegate added!

DNC Jeanette Council (NC) added for Obama

OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA '08
.; May 06, 2008 7:03 PM
suzihussein22 said...: I have been remiss! THANK YOU DemConWatch for all your hard work! I just read that Kokomo's Howard County are the results to watch for IN. I've read of a few other places that usually have accurate reflections of the GE outcome. Most of them have gone to Obama. My husband accidentally threw away the info I had on that. Thank you for your feedback Tyler. Also, you do seem to have a sense of humor-Doh! One more quid pro quo...HRC helped with SCHIP and Obama helped with children's issues in IL. Pablo, I'm glad those things haven't come up here either. It would be reducing a respected site to a tabloid. dave in nc-LOL! Git ready & Git-r-done! Jim, could I have some Jack Daniels instead of beer? Actually, I'm not a betting person.:)
robh-how will parents explain Santa and the NP in 30 yrs.? That's a really good perspective. My family does that tradition but when my kids get up on Christmas morning, they sing happy birthday to Jesus. My kids haven't had a white Christmas very many times which is also very telling of our planet's condition. We used to have at least a flurry almost every year. Emit, I also believe that Iraqis won't step up until we start pulling out.; May 06, 2008 7:25 PM
Dave in NC said...: Although I voted early, I couldn't resist going to the polling place to show off my Obama T-shirt and find out how many voted.

721 out of 2495 had voted by 6:50 PM with 10 minutes to go. Short line, maybe 1-2 per minute dribbling in, I would say.

She estimated that as many as 800 may have voted early.

I am amazed, I would have thought my precint would be majority Republican.

Republicans can't cross over (only independents and unaffiliated can cross over), and they don't have much to vote for.

I'm starting to think that ALL the Democrats turned out!; May 06, 2008 7:28 PM
suzihussein22 said...: Thanks Leah for the heads up on CNN. Obama has been called for NC on Yahoo. Happy number watching!; May 06, 2008 7:36 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: I was eating pizza and watching on TV when CNN called North Carolina for OBAMA - yahooooooo!!!

Now if it hadn't been for Rush Limbaugh we would have seen how Indiana really would have came out ;(

Someone needs to find a way to charge Rush with some crime and put his butt in jail for screwing this all up !!!; May 06, 2008 8:03 PM
ed iglehart said...: Good analysis of what determines what the meaning of 'winning' is.

xx
ed; May 06, 2008 8:29 PM
Yamaka said...: To ALL BHO Supporters:

Congrats.

Sen BHO should be dancing at the top of the world!

Well deserved victory in NC.

Still I will call IN to HRC. Wait and see.

Cheers.

:-); May 06, 2008 8:59 PM
Yamaka said...: BHO is talking.

He mentioned that IN will go to HRC.

Good tie, as I predicted this morning.

But I was way off in NC margin!

:=); May 06, 2008 9:23 PM
Unknown said...: It is amazing the racist voting of African-Americans in this country. There is no reason or policy or anything other than skin color that results in 90%+ of African-Americans to vote for Obama over Hillary.

I voted for Hillary in the Pennsylvania primary based on experience, judgment, and policies.

If the Democrats nominate Obama, I will never vote for him. I will vote for McCain.

I hope that all Hillary supporters vote for McCain in November if the Democrats nominate Obama.; May 06, 2008 9:23 PM
RobH said...: Hey Dave in NC, Jim:

I don't feel like going back through a few days of posts. Can you please remind me what your original wager was?

Jim, we spoke of watching the "raging call for Obama to abandon due to electability issues"
for too narrow a victory in NC. Looks like we won't be having that conversation after all.; May 06, 2008 9:25 PM
RobH said...: Hey Ijeomi,

He may have actually jumped the gun there. He's only down by 48K votes with all of NW Chicago market, half of Indianapolis market and all of Bloomington (IU) still to be counted. He may actually win outright...(or not.)
We'll see.; May 06, 2008 9:27 PM
RobH said...: Lee,

HOw about uniting behind the candidate that best represents your interest, and a positive way out of this mess? If that's McCain for you, good riddance. You are no Democrat.; May 06, 2008 9:31 PM
suzihussein22 said...: Not to generalize demographics, but why do Catholics tend to vote for HRC? Isn't she pro-choice? Also, what about the issue of social security? I think it ties in with economics.
There was a very interesting ...Rest of the Story tonight on Paul Harvey announced by his son. We did have an acting female POTUS in 1919-Edith Wilson, Woodrow Wilson's better half.:) The VP refused to take the reigns while he recovered from a stroke. This was before the 25th Amendment was ratified by about 50 yrs. Girl Power!:) I haven't researched this yet or read the transcript in between supper with the family, laundry, and number watching.; May 06, 2008 9:33 PM
Yamaka said...: lee:

Please, Just allow the BHO people to rejoice the night.

For two months they did not have anything to celebrate on.

Tonight is their night. I am happy for them!

I will be happy if IN goes to HRC.

:-); May 06, 2008 9:40 PM
RobH said...: Yamaka,
Very tempered response to Lee. thx.

In this soft moment, riddle me this:

If Obama is the nominee, even after Denver, will you support him, or vote McCain, or not vote?

Which is it, Y. Stand up and be counted, buddy.; May 06, 2008 9:57 PM
Unknown said...: RobH -

I will never unite behind Obama or vote for Obama.

I voted for Gore in 2000 and Kerry in 2004. I will vote for Hillary if she is the nominee in 2008 or 2012 or 2016.

I hope, if the Democrats nominate Obama, that Hillary supporters vote for McCain and Obama suffers a big electoral defeat.; May 06, 2008 9:57 PM
Dave in NC said...: "Dave in NC said...

...I stand by my prediction - Obama in NC by 15-20% with 30% not out of the question.

April 29, 2008 12:34 PM "

"Jim said...
...30% is a pretty big number.
Maybe 1/10th of that

April 29, 2008 12:51 PM "

"Jim said...
Dave,
My projection of 3% was simply to point out how ridiculous your 30% was.
We could see how close we are...

April 29, 2008 2:30 PM"

"Dave in NC said...
Jim,

...I believe if you re-read my post, my projection was 15-20 points.

I simply held out 30 points as a resonable but outlying scenario...

April 29, 2008 3:18 PM "

"Jim said...
... My probable is Obama by 5 to 7%

April 29, 2008 3:39 PM

"Dave in NC said...
Jim,

OK, now we have projections that we can bet a beer on.

I hope one of us wins... I like beer.

Dave

April 29, 2008 3:49 PM "

Jim,

I like my beer the way Yam likes his favorite dish - served COLD!

I'll be in Vegas during the entire World Series of Poker, you can meet me there.

You will need to relax a bit after the train wreck this Hillary dream has been for you, and Vegas is the place for that!

I will buy the second round.

Cheers my friend; May 06, 2008 9:59 PM
Aunt Jean said...: You know you obama supporters are really sad people the spin that you put on things are great it so funny oh by the way leah he still only got 4 SD's may 5th. LOL LOL LOL . you people beat everyyhing that I've ever seen so how are you going to like [it might be that way] having enough republican in the white house for at least 4 years. LOL lOL LOL LOL LOL LOL !!!!!!!!! Jean; May 06, 2008 10:06 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Lee you can bet that I will vote for McCain in nov. if obama gets it. Even though it will hurt and I will probably have to say a prayer but I will do it there is NO WAY I will vote for obama. I want something left to work with after 4 years. Jean; May 06, 2008 10:10 PM
Aunt Jean said...: sciv we are not blind

Clintons pros: very high
obama pros: barely reg.

Clintons cons: barely reg
obamas cons: very very high

that's why need I say more!!! Jean; May 06, 2008 10:16 PM
RobH said...: Lee and Jean,

Best wishes to you both and I mean that most sincere. The train has left the station and you are not on it. I hope you can reconcile your intransigence with the new world the rest of us are destined for come January.

When Obama faces McCain, without this family squabble, it WILL be a landslide. F* the current polls, have you seen the recent demographics?

Self identified Repubs shrank 42% to 35% in four years.
Self identified Dems increased 43% to 50% in four years.
It's a BLOW-OUT in November regardless o what durrent polls say.

Having said that, and having previously thought Webb or Sebelius are great VP choices, and with serious reservations about what HRC stands for, I'll repeat what I said here about three weeks ago:

An Obama/Clinton ticket would be unstoppable (so long as he gets a food taster.) Can you imagine her in the traditional VP attack dog mode???? Yikes!; May 06, 2008 10:26 PM
Dave in NC said...: ...and with the latest update, Obama has expanded his lead in the popular vote so that he is ahead even by Yam's perverted system.

Ahhh it's past 10:00PM and our friend Aunt Jean has risen from her coffin to grace us with her presence again.

Guud eveneen my friend.

Jean, you can vote for whomever you want, McCain will carry Texas no matter what you do and no matter whom we nominate.

Indiana is also as red as an irritated bowel.

North Carolina is not only in play, but is relishing it's role as Clinton's swan song.

You can bet the excitement will still be here in November!; May 06, 2008 10:27 PM
Yamaka said...: "Which is it, Y. Stand up and be counted, buddy."

Folks,

I have told you clearly before:

If the hurdle is set at 2208.5 and BHO jumps over it, I will blog for him everyday till the GE.

This has been my position for a long time; please go and check my earlier postings.

To my odd thinking 2208.5 total delegate is the Legitimate - Fair- 50 State Strategy for the Nomination and for the GE.

Any thing less, is just partial, not a full justice to ALL the people in ALL States.

Anyway, sorry to intrude in your celebration of the night.

Still I am hopeful IN will go to HRC.

Enjoy. God Bless You All.

Cheers. :-); May 06, 2008 10:28 PM
Dave in NC said...: and Aunt Jean,

...no you don't need to say anymore.

:)

Peace and Love; May 06, 2008 10:29 PM
RobH said...: Hey Jean,

Like my post to Yamaka, which he has not answered yet, and with a different form:

If the ticket is Obama/Clinton(VP)in November, will you support it?

Just answer yes or no, please please pleas. No hyperbole. Just pleas say yes or no. Please.; May 06, 2008 10:29 PM
RobH said...: But Yamaka, lots of words, but you didn't answer my simple question.

Please Please Please,

"If Obama is the nominee, even after Denver, will you support him, or vote McCain, or not vote?"

C'mon, just stand up for once and be counted. It's really simple. C'mon.; May 06, 2008 10:32 PM
Dave in NC said...: Yam,

Let me republish my suggestion that Obama could well exceed 2208 EVEN WITHOUT HIM RECEIVING ANY DELEGATES FROM MI & FL.

He would only need to be ahead by about... oh by about the number that he is ahead by NOW.

SO... if he has enough supers to pull THAT off - he would only need about half of the remaining supers to do it, then we can seat FL & MI and you can lead them in a chorus of "We Shall Overcome".

But you won't.

:)

Hope you had a blessed Tuesday and may a wonderful Wednesday await us all.; May 06, 2008 10:37 PM
RobH said...: I'm watching her speech in Indy. She's delusional. She's got a 40K squeaker in Indy while getting spanked by 200K in NC, and this is "on to the WH"? "This is your victory" We at least need a candiodate that's snae, ya' know?; May 06, 2008 10:42 PM
RobH said...: Tja woould be 'sane' for you word jumblers....; May 06, 2008 10:43 PM
Dave in NC said...: robh,

Although I love to see Yam get out reasoned in all fairness, he did say "I will blog for him everyday till the GE."

I look forward to blogging with him.

So let him have his dignity.

But I will not go into his windowless basement where he sits in his underwear with bottles of saved-up zits, boogers, and bodily fluids in the corner.

:)

Peace and Love, all!; May 06, 2008 10:46 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: RobH-

I am watching her speech too.
I can't believe she started it off with ' go to hillaryclinton.com ' NO CLASS!

Senator Obama sure did look and speak presidential during his speech tonight - I really thought Hillary was going to give a good speech tonight - really - but so far I am disappointed.

p.s. Yamaka, I really appreciate your kind words earlier, and I hope you do get a win tonight (but I am still hoping the state will tip to Obama - if it does not then congrats to you and yours.); May 06, 2008 10:49 PM
Unknown said...: I will stand up and be counted.

I will never vote for Obama.

I will not vote for Obama/Clinton.

I will only vote Democrat in 2008 if Hillary is the nominee.; May 06, 2008 10:49 PM
RobH said...: Hey Yam,

Did you watch her speech? I hate to say it but the Maestro looks terrible. Tired, puffy, red faced.
And I hate to see it 'cause i loved him as pres.

This nomination fight is one ugle business.; May 06, 2008 10:50 PM
RobH said...: Goodbye Lee. Good riddance. So long. Adios. Arrivederce (sp?)
Can I get hte dore for ye'?; May 06, 2008 10:52 PM
Dave in NC said...: robh,

He's only red-faced because he met with Monica backstage.

While we were singing, they were humming.

:); May 06, 2008 10:54 PM
RobH said...: Oh, a fine evening.

Thanks for the kudos, Yam. Mighty kind of you.

I think we heard it in her speech tonight "I will work for the nominee." That's it, in code.

So:

The pledged delegate discussion is over.
The pop vote discussion is over.
The number of states discussion is over.
The electoral vote map is over.

We're left with one metric:

Can she destroy his electability before June 3?

If history is any measure....no!

His placidity, and refusing to rise to the baiting and pandering, is ABSOLUTELY Presidential.

Wouldn't you say?; May 06, 2008 10:58 PM
Dave in NC said...: lee,

No problem my friend, you will simply be offset by that one person that would only vote Republican if Ron Paul was their nominee.

I guess this just frees up your Autumn.

:); May 06, 2008 10:59 PM
Dave in NC said...: robh,

Well said my friend.; May 06, 2008 11:01 PM
Dave in NC said...: My last word verification was:

HRCBULL

Hmmmm...; May 06, 2008 11:02 PM
jpsedona said...: Based on Obama's margins in NC and the closeness in IN, it looks like Obama will virtually lock up the pledged delegate lead tonight. I will update and repost my remaining contest analaysis with the updated delegate counts tomorrow.

However, the pledged delegate counts will now get a number of off the fence. There's a likely chance that you will here the Obama camp start using the popular vote argument this week. If you leave out MI, his lead in popular vote will be insurmountable now.

Have a good evening folks...; May 06, 2008 11:08 PM
Keryl said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; May 06, 2008 11:32 PM
Keryl said...: Lee - why is it that when 90% of African Americans were voting for Clinton it was because he was such a great guy. Now if they vote for Obama it's because they're racist. Hillary actually started out with a pretty high numbers of African Americans in polling. She lost that vote all on her own (or actually with the help of Bill).; May 06, 2008 11:35 PM
Pablo said...: Lee,

Since the policies of Obama and Hillary's are similar, I am guessing you would have voted for McCain since he has loads more experience.

Yam,
Very big to be gracious, I am sure I was further off the numbers than you. I thought Hill would win Ind by 5, and Obama by 7 in N.C., but I must admit, I was getting worried until late last night N.C. would be closer.

Next couple will be Hill's , plus some nice add ons.; May 06, 2008 11:43 PM
RobH said...: Dave in NC - a job well done tonight (and earlier) on the ground. Thanks.

jp -
got ya on the delegates count. I know that pop vote is not a valid metric, but to nail tha coffin shut tonight, check this:

A devastating night for HRC, To be ‘precise’, THREE times worse than expected.

Pre vote expectations were:

NC 1,500,000 votes, 8% Obama spread = 120,000 vote net Obama

IN 900,000 votes, 6% Clinton spread – 60,000 vote net Clinton

Net Obama pop vote gain = 60,000

Approx actuals:

NC 1,500,000 votes, 14% Obama spread = 220,000 vote net Obama

IN 1,200,000 votes, 4% Clinton spread – 40,000 vote net Clinton

Net Obama pop vote gaine = 180,000

This is devastating to HRC pop vote argument.; May 06, 2008 11:44 PM
RobH said...: And that's not even counting the Gary, IN shenanigans going' on. Could be less than 40K I suppose.; May 06, 2008 11:47 PM
Unknown said...: Pablo - I would vote for Hillary over McCain. I would vote for McCain over Obama.

Keryl - When african-americans vote overwhelmingly for Bill in general elections, it could be because they like his Democratic policies over the Republicans.

When african-americans vote 90%+ for one Democrat over another Democrat - is there a specific policy or something other than skin color that would cause that?; May 06, 2008 11:48 PM
RobH said...: Geez,

Nothin' from Yam, Jean, and JIm tonight. Wonder what's up?

Think they caught the concessionary nature of her speech and turned in early?; May 06, 2008 11:50 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: OH MY GOD! I can't believe what is going on with Indiana right now!

I can't believe it!
I can't believe it!; May 07, 2008 12:00 AM
RobH said...: Lee,

For your principles we would have Supreme Court Justices (McCain appointments) that will SUNDER the idea of three co-equal branches, install a unitary executive, and put an end to the independence of the Federal Elections Commision, and thus, contestable elections as we know them. Is that what you want, soley because your candidate can't have the nomination???? Do you know what's at stake??

To put your candidate above the party, when their principle positions are identical, is a disgrace.; May 07, 2008 12:01 AM
RobH said...: Leah,

It's all good.

Someone once said on this thread:
"THe more you try to tear a good man down, the stronger he becomes. It's karma, baby!; May 07, 2008 12:03 AM
Dave in NC said...: as a consolation prize for the Clinton group, she took NC-11 with over 55% of the vote, so Congressman Heath Shuler should be endorsing her soon.; May 07, 2008 12:09 AM
RobH said...: DONE!

IT's OVER!

Tim Russert at 12:10 AM:

"We now know who the Deocratic nominee is. Sometimes the candidate is the last one to know. Like a patient on life support, when they start removing the systems you have no choice. If these reports are true of her loaning more of her own money to the campaign, it's over."

Hallelujah.; May 07, 2008 12:18 AM
Martin said...: Lee - You are a DISGRACE to your party and you should be 100% ASHAMED OF YOURSELF.; May 07, 2008 12:18 AM
RobH said...: Wow, a stunning absence of Yam, Jean, Jim. Hmmm.....

(I like it.); May 07, 2008 12:19 AM
RobH said...: When Pat Buchanan - the most pro-Hillary rightie on the tube (and we all know he reasons' why - 'cause he thinks she's eminently beatable) says:

"this is the night the music died for her campaign."
...I repeat myself.

Hallelujah!; May 07, 2008 12:28 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Dave,

I have a feeling that we won't be hearing from Congressman Heath Shuler anytime soon.

Also, let us be civil here tonight. The Clinton supporters have been kind tonight and we owe them the same civility.

What a night!

.; May 07, 2008 12:30 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Jim be nice to begin with even though I'm small I still wouldn't fit in a port-a-pot.I don't know about you.lol. Jean; May 07, 2008 12:37 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Leah obama had a good night. Jean; May 07, 2008 12:38 AM
Aunt Jean said...: robh don't get to over joyed because I'm hereeeeee! Jean; May 07, 2008 12:40 AM
Dave in NC said...: Confirming my prediction regarding the early voting in my home county of Mecklenburg - a prediction that some had such trouble believing - Obama took the early vote by 27,509 to 10,030 or about 74%-26%.

This is remarkably close to my estimate of 4:1 that I made based on cruising the polling place.

So I guess I'm completing for one of the 1-2 male delegate spots for Obama from NC-9.

Maybe they have an affirmative action spot for a rich, crippled, smart mouthed former Republican.

:); May 07, 2008 12:43 AM
Dave in NC said...: leah,

What do you base your comment about Schuler on?; May 07, 2008 12:47 AM
Aunt Jean said...: robh Hi you asked me a question and I've gave it thought. It was if obama and hillary as vp ticket would I vote for them? I really and truly don't know but I do know this I trust Hillary to do the right thing so it might be possible. That's the best I can do sorry. jean; May 07, 2008 12:53 AM
RobH said...: Hey Jean,

My many post would have you believe I'm overjoyed. I want to be happy for our party.

I've often thought what it would be like if all our comrades here - Leah, Dave, Yam, Ed, Jean, jp, tyler, Jim, etc, etc, etc - were all at a block party or pig roast together. I bet it would do us good, to humanize each other, to re-learn that each other are really hust like ourselves, wants, desires, hopes, etc.

Hey I heard Hillary cancelled all public appearances for tomorrow. That seems pretty dramatic.; May 07, 2008 12:57 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Dave,

I was just thinking that Schuler will wait a bit since Obama won NC and possibly also IN. And since the reporters on TV are saying it just might be all over --- If I were Schuler I'd wait a day or two to see what is going on from here before making any public announcements.; May 07, 2008 12:58 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Jim when you made the comment about the port-a-pot you are talking about the kind that goes on a boat are sm. rv not the big things you see when they work on places. If you was talking about one of them of course we would both fit I'm not that big. only 120 lbs.I would give him heck though LOL LOL. Jean; May 07, 2008 12:59 AM
Aunt Jean said...: robh about us all together that would be strange but interesting. I just wonder how much we really are alike that is if we were all honest with our feelings and didn't let pride or anger interfer. Jean; May 07, 2008 1:02 AM
Dave in NC said...: No referrence to Clinton, Shuler, or any other political enuendo here; but as a completely off-subject yet interesting side note, NC-11 (Heath Schuler's district) has some of the most glorious mountains and pristine forests. Beautiful towns such as Ashville featuring the Biltmore Mansion. Some of the most wonderful people you could ever want to meet.

But they are quite conservative. It was in this region that Eric Rudolph eluded capture for years. Although he lived in the forests and ate out of dumpsters at night, he did receive some support and more than a few people looked the other way knowing, or suspecting that he was in the area.

Many parallels have been drawn between his situation and Bin Laden in the Taliban regions.

Part of my take-away regarding 911 was an increased respect for the separation of religion and government.

My own faith, hoever, has not decreased and is, in fact, stronger than ever.; May 07, 2008 1:03 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: RobH-

I heard on MSNBC that Hillary canceled all the morning shows - but just now they said that the Clinton campaign didn't have any morning shows scheduled - so who knows. They also said that she has a fundraiser that she is going to tomorrow night. Guess we will have to wait and see what happens in the next few days.

They also said the Obama campaign have called in someone that is going to start vetting people for the VP spot.

That's all I've heard so far.; May 07, 2008 1:05 AM
Dave in NC said...: Leah,

OK, We'll go with that for now.; May 07, 2008 1:05 AM
Dave in NC said...: Aunt Jean,

At 120lb you outweigh a small jack-hammer by a bit - I bet you could take me, but, outside of this forum, I bet we would be too busy drinking beer and sharing stories to worry about it.

:); May 07, 2008 1:08 AM
Yamaka said...: Hello Democrats:

Sen BHO had a wonderful day Tuesday; NC gave him a real life.

IN is not sure as of now. HRC could win it by 1-2% margin.
_________________________________
Here is my Conversation with Dean:

--Gov Dean, Good to see you, Sir.

--Hi Yamaka, I have been getting lots of e-mails from you for the past 2 months. Are you doing okay?

--Fine, thanks Gov. Now, both Sen HRC and BHO are fighting it out till the last minute, perhaps things will not be clear even after June 3rd w/o the SDs. What is your solution for MI and FL? What is your Delegate Count for the Nomination, Is it 2025 or 2208.5? Please clarify, for people are very very anxious about the 50 State Strategy for the Nomination and the GE.

--Yamaka, my personal feeling is, as I have said many times, the voters of MI and FL did not violate any Rule. They just obeyed their State calling for the Primary, they went to the polls and voted. We must somehow respect and recognize their choice in this Primary Contest. Now, things are very complicated - somehow we did not anticipate such a very tight Contest: so far BHO is leading by about 20 total delegates and about 52,000 popular votes even if we include MI and FL. We have another 6 Contests to go. We have to see the counts at the end of the June 3 Contest. If Sen BHO wins more total delegates and more popular votes, then I guess the SDs will move en mass to give him over 2208 and the Nomination will be over.

But my real panic is, if somehow he wins more total delegates and she wins more popular votes, then it is going to be extremely difficult for the SDs to choose one over the other. The undeclared SDs will fight among themselves, and the whole thing could get very ugly, and may end up at the Convention.

--Gov my view is this: You must allow all 50 States participate in the Nomination process, not just 48 States (that is leaving MI and FL behind). That's only fair and legitimate. It is important that the Nominee wins by a fair and legitimate process. This will strengthen the Nominee for the GE, in my opinion, Sir.

--I understand, Yamaka. Let us see what Alexis Herman's Committee comes out at the end of this month. I realize we are in a very dangerous and risky period. Many of the supporters of the losing candidate will be very angry and may not vote for us in the GE. We need to get about 66 million voters in the GE to bag about 350 Electoral votes. So far the Primary has brought only about 31 million voters. We need to sway the remaining 35 million voters, not participated in the Primary, to lean Left. I am really getting very worried about our Nomination process.

--Good Luck, Gov. Hopefully, we will meet again. Good Night, Sir.

--Good Night Yamaka. Please send us some Contribution. Our coffer is nearly empty - another bad news for our Party. The GOP raises tons of money well ahead of us.
_______________________________

Oh, Folks, Enjoy.

_______________________________

What the hell is happening in the Lake County, IN?

Still we don't know the exact final number from IN.

CNN just called IN for HRC by 2% margin. Good for her.

But the day belongs to Sen BHO. Let his supporters rejoice the day. He is the Man with the Strong Fist, today.

We will meet again in WV and KY in the days to come.

:-); May 07, 2008 1:15 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Congrats to the Hillary supporters - she has been called the winner of Indiana.

Still 1% out - probably absentee votes - I will look to see if there are final numbers in the morning.

It was an exciting night for everyone I do believe!

Tomorrow is another day :); May 07, 2008 1:21 AM
Unknown said...: One thing is for sure. There cannot be any conventon without the delegates from Florida & Michigan being seated. The fairest way is to give the uncommitted delegates in MI to Obama and let the results in Florida stand as they are because both Obama’s name and Clinton’s name was on the ballot. In fact Obama was even putting ads on CNN in the state.. Mind you these results have been certified by the Secretaries of States of the two states.

The color Purple. Much as we may crave it, we do not live in a democracy. If we did then each person would have one vote in every issue, and that vote would count as much as any other. But we don’t. If you participated in a caucus, your vote counted about ten times as much as someone who voted in a primary. In the general election, what ultimately matters is the votes in the Electoral College, not the popular vote, as we re-learned so painfully in 2000. So the question facing the uncommitted “super-delegates” is how do we run the best campaign with the highest probability of defeating John McCain in November, and win the majority of Electoral College votes. Cuurently Clinton has 300 electoral votes and Obama has 216 electoral votes using the same method as used in the GE. Assume that Hillary wins WV, & KY and Obama gets SD, OR , MT , Clinton will have 313 electoral votes and Obama will have 230 Electoral votes. You know who should be on top of the DREAM ticket. ThIS IS VERY SERIOUS MATTER AS SHE IS ALREADY BEATING OBAMA BY 50% MARGIN ( use the same method in the Playoffs as used in Superbowl)

Lea, Jim , Yamaka & Aunt Jean thanks for your views and that was why I will never and will not ever in my life vote obama. The useless media houses in this country run negative against Clinton for Obama fo almost 16 months just aginst a woman in order to force Obama on us. BUt all the same she still came up strong after all these negatives, she contested agianst Obama and the American media but she is still up today i think cudos should be given to this woman as well as if the DNC have their senses working rightly i believe Hillary should be the nominee. Who can easily run against the American media in this country???? and still have the type of support she still has today. God bless you Hillary!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Obama is the weaker candidate.....empty suit, no substance! Obama was forced down our throats by the media (GOP owned), and thats why he won the states he did. Hillary stayed on course, fighting everyday,not only the media, Obama, but also the new faction of the Democratic party, and has proven to be the better candidate. Dean, Pelosi, Kennedy,& Kerry and Reid didn't win those states for Obama, but the GOP media did. The GOP wants him to be the nominee......he is so much weaker than Clinton.....and now, that this has happened, if Obama is the nominee, latest exit poles show over half of the Clinton supporters will go with McCain. Thus McCain wins again....the NEW "FACTION" Democratic Party, designed by Dean, Pelosi, and Reid has now turned into their worst enemy........I don't see the Dems regaining the White House in the fall.....4 more years of Bush!

Unless of course they get united behind the Dream Ticket- HILLARY ON TOP BECAUSE SHE HAS ALREADY WON IF YOU USE THE SAME RULES WHICH ARE USED IN THE GENERAL ELECTION; May 07, 2008 1:22 AM
Martin said...: Oh look, another Clintonite moving the goalposts. What a big surprise. "IF YOU DON'T COUNT ANY OF THE STATES THAT OBAMA WON, THEN HILLARY IS WINNING! OBAMA SHOULD DROP OUT NOW. GO HILLARY!"; May 07, 2008 1:27 AM
Subodh said...: People who support Obama are doing him a disservice. The fact is that he is damaged. If Obama wins the primaries and loses the election, he will be forever banned from running as the candidate He will be frozen for ever like Howard Dean, Kennedy, Kerry, Richardson , and all the other losers who are surrounding him and inciting him to reach his doomsday when he has not yet grown up to be president of a small company let alon the PRESIDENT OF THE USA.
I would not hesitate to vote for him if he had a few more years of experience and exposure. While some people think the business with his pastor and radical left wing fanatics is not a big deal as a 2nd generation immigrant, this is a BIG deal. He may or may not think as his pastor, but politics is about perception.

If I am an immigrant and a minority can not accept this then you can bet that the majority of American will not accept. It's not about his pastor, who cares about him. It is about the candidate itself. With a slim resume, his call to people to trust him on his words, that words matters, ideas, judgment are worth it.

The pastor incident disproved all of these. If words, ideas mattered, why didn't he say and do anything for the past twenty years. If he claims that he has the ability to bridge the race, why didn't he start right at his pastor, his grand mother, his church.

Most presidential candidate have one and only one shot at it. If he were to step up into the ring now, he will be forever damaged. The best option for him is to take a VP position or bow out, which give him time to rehabilitate his image and improve his weakness (experience). Eight years from know, if someone asked him about the pastor, he can answer very honestly that it was a mistake, and he can prove that he corrected it during the 8 years as VP and he will be full of experience.
I know this is not going to convince any of Obama's supporters and I might be called all kinds of things but it is reality plain and simple..
OBAMA IS A DAMAGED GOOD. Only a minority of whites are voting for him. In NC & IN, PA, OH , MI, FL ,
two thirds of the white voters did not vote for him . The only reason he won in NC, SC, MS and all the other southern sates is because 33 to 50% of the total votes in those states were black.

I challenge him to win the coming contests in WV or Kentucky even if he spends a billion dollars.

I like Nancy’s suggestion above . Have a United Ticket !!!

WAKE UP AMERICA _ YOUR GREAT DESTINY IS WAITING FOR YOU IF YOU DO THE RIGHT THING !!! GOD BLESS AMERICA !!!; May 07, 2008 1:49 AM
Dave in NC said...: Regarding disenfranchised voters:

In the first presidential election in 1789, neither NC, RI, or NY sent electors to the electoral college.

NC and RI had not yet ratified the Constitution, and NY had an internal dispute and did not select electors. See, we have no corner on the dispute market.

Even at that critical time in our nations formation, no one was disenfranchised enough to make any difference.

The key was coming together behind whatever you've got, for better or worse.

Also an even more interesting note. No record was ever kept of popular vote results for the first NINE presidential elections. Not until 1824 were such records ever recorded!

Why? BECAUSE THEY DON"T MATTER. Follow the Constitution, don't try to make up your own rules just because you can. That's how Hitler and Saddam came to power.

Let's not add Clinton to that list!; May 07, 2008 1:49 AM
Dave in NC said...: subodh,

You are absolutely right. Whomever is not elected president this time will never be president.

The same is true for Clinton and McCain.

With 300 million people why should anyone get a second chance.

However, this year is Obama's time like it or not. The only requirement for President is

1) be 36
2) be a natural born American and 3) get 270 electoral votes

Nothing about experience in there, if you have enough experience to pull off those electoral votes, you have enough experience.

Obama doesn't need to win WV or KY. He only needs the delegates he will get for coming in second.

I was born in WV, believe me, you don't want them chosing our president.

And what about the 36 or so states that Clinton didn't win? And the 3 more to come that she won't win?

Let's see her spend a billion dollars and pull off Montana.

And BTW, the majority of America HAS ALREADY accepted him, by every contrived, contorted measure that the Clinton camp has put up as a metric, he has won.

If McCain beats him in the fall, I won't be bitter because it is not just about me.

I presume that Clinton's supporter will rally that much grace when their shock finally wears off.; May 07, 2008 2:06 AM
ed iglehart said...: Good morning from Sunny Scotland! With over 99% of Indiana's votes counted, the margin in popular vote is.......

22,412,

according to CNN.

Well, well, well....and "Nothin could be finer than to be in Carolina, in the moooorning..."

232,775 popular vote margin - more than ten times that of Indiana, even without any rounding...

Salaaaaaam, etc.
ed; May 07, 2008 2:11 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Robh Yes I weigh 120 but was a big tom boy when I was a girl. Had all male cousins my age. I use to hold 1 cousin and tickle him just to see his dimples loved them and he was bigger, but I was faster. lol lol At the age of 12 I was 4ft 10 and weighed 66 lbs and was not skinny just very small. Had a lot of fun back then, a lot of good memories. Jean; May 07, 2008 2:14 AM
Dave in NC said...: Nancy boy Yamaka,

Those 2 posts are an AWFUL lot of typing for a candidate that may well withdraw tomorrow.

I would suggest a pinch of peyote between the cheeck and gum and get a good night's sleep.

Your pool will need shocked in the morning and you need to be rested and refreshed.

:); May 07, 2008 2:16 AM
ed iglehart said...: From The Atlantic:

"As her speech staggers on, after the gas tax holiday gambit, and a plea for Burma, she eventually turns to Florida and Michigan. You almost want to look away. But it's fascinating in a way. She cannot concede; she cannot give an inch; she cannot acknowledge reality. Observing sociopaths in close detail as their world collapses around them and they cannot absorb the truth is always fascinating. And yet some sliver of humanity is discernible: her tone is altered. Even she cannot fake enthusiasm or confidence any more. And Bill seems grim. Chelsea seemed close to breaking into tears."

"If you want another president whose own grip on reality has little relationship to the outside world, then you know who to vote for. ..."

And, from the BBC:

"The End

* Justin Webb
* 7 May 08, 06:02 AM GMT

"It really is as simple as that."

"Even if Hillary were to surprise us all by performing well in forthcoming Obama-favoured contests in states like Oregon and South Dakota - even then, her victories would change the underlying arithmetic of the race so little that the impact would be minimal."

"Her speech began with an odd line about going all the way to the White House and some commentators reached for their hard hats. But Bill didn't look as if he was going anywhere and nor is she."

"Having said that, Clintons being Clintons, this could still run and run but only into the ground. One of her fundraisers told me in the middle of the night that a large sum of money to be clinched tomorrow will now be lost."

"You stop running when the money runs out and the money will now run out. There is no argument to make to the super-delegates."

"Could she run on just to secure the vice presidency, in a more genteel minor key, perhaps, a la Republican runner-up Mike Huckabee?"

"And talking of Mr Huckabee, I see that he is still doing rather well in the Repubican non-race."

"Will that 12% of Huckabee voters go somewhere else in November?"

Almost sad, but not really. She's burned her bridges.

Good morning, my sleepy friends.
xx
ed

Although I can accept talking scarecrows, lions and great wizards of emerald cities, I find it hard to believe there is no paperwork involved when your house lands on a witch.

--Dave James; May 07, 2008 2:28 AM
Unknown said...: Here is a question for the Obama supporters.

If Obama becomes the nominee and loses to McCain, will you support Hillary in 2012?

An Obama loss in November will probably include losses in Ohio and Florida where Clinton polls better. Also, an Obama loss in November will either include losing a blue state or Obama not being able to expand the electoral map which will mean the road to the White House runs thru Ohio and Florida.; May 07, 2008 2:58 AM
ed iglehart said...: Lee,

Considering your stated intention to vote for McCain instead of the presumptive Democratic nominee, I reckon you can expect a similar response from folk like myself.

In fact, if she's not already, I reckon by 2012 HRC will be a truly spent force. Her best option is to try and get re-elected to the Senate, where (who knows?) she might even become Majority Leader, though I suspect any such role in 'higher office' will depend upon how gracefully she accepts the present realities and swings to full-hearted support for Obama's campaign to become President next January.

Without such a positive demonstration of an ability to put Party before personal ego, I reckon she and Bill had better settle into a comfortable retirement, though with circumstances slightly reduced by having to pay off her campaign's reputedly considerable deficit.

In short, I don't reckon I'll have to decide whether to support HRC in 2012.

Salaam, etc.
ed; May 07, 2008 5:02 AM
ed iglehart said...: A summary

"After the Reverend Wright controversy, Hillary Clinton had the nomination in her hands. Obama was suffering the worst press month of his campaign," said Republican media consultant Alex Castellanos. "Then she had a choice. She could have gotten bigger, more presidential, less political, could have risen to defend Obama. 'This is outrageous and has no place in politics.' She didn't do that. Instead, she chose to become smaller, more political, less presidential. Her own political instincts betrayed her."

She still has one last opportunity to show grace and dignity, but will she take it? Or will she be bitter?

xx
ed; May 07, 2008 5:47 AM
ed iglehart said...: A little hindsight on the pollsters.

I saw some criticism of Zogby (I think it was on this thread), but his polls seem to have been just about the best. Mostly "right on the money".

Here's Indiana, just for good measure.

xx
ed; May 07, 2008 6:02 AM

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