Democratic Convention Watch: Open Thread

Tuesday, April 01, 2008

Open Thread

WE'VE MOVED! Democratic Convention Watch is now at http://www.DemocraticConventionWatch.com

Who's going to win, who has a better chance against McCain, or whatever else is on your mind.

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Aunt Jean said...: Mike Please don't tell me to put up or shut up I didn't start this argument but I damn well can end it. I keep saying it's a moot point LET IT GO. Besides I was just telling them [Obama supporters] how can they expect the Hillary supporters to get over their anger if all they do is trash her.I'm not saying all are not doing that. There is a few on her that still have a habit of trashing her.Also something else the last time I looked at my birth records you were not listed as my father so don't treat me like your child I am a grown woman and except to be treated as such.One more thing if I listed all the things that I felt that Obama did or said or anything else you wouldn't believe me so why would I waste my time? Jean; June 08, 2008 11:30 PM
tmess2 said...: For those keeping track of the delegate count, apparently (according to GP citing to Daily Kos) Obama picked up 1 more pledged delegate at the Texas Democratic Convention.

Still two more conventions with pledged delegates at stake (Iowa and Nebraska).; June 08, 2008 11:31 PM
Mike in Maryland said...: Aunt Jean,

If you are not going to put up or shut up about what you said Senator Obama said about Senator Clinton

DO NOT TELL SUPPORTERS OF SENATOR OBAMA WHAT SITES THEY CAN AND WHAT SITES THEY CANNOT VISIT. IT ALSO MEANS THAT YOU DO NOT HAVE THE RIGHT TO TELL ANYONE WHAT THEY CAN AND CANNOT POST AT THIS SITE.

Comprende?

Mike; June 08, 2008 11:35 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; June 08, 2008 11:37 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Yahoooo!

Obama was ahead in Texas delegates and now has picked up one more!

So now that the Texas convention is over he has officially WON Texas ;)

I am a proud Texan tonight!

Obama/Sebelius '08; June 08, 2008 11:38 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: DCW added a map to their GENERAL ELECTION TRACKER

http://demconwatch.blogspot.com/2008/06/general-election-tracker.html

.; June 08, 2008 11:44 PM
Hippolytus said...: Leah,
Yam must have put him over the top.
~ Hippo; June 08, 2008 11:45 PM
stopOBAMAnow said...: kujo:

I never said I served in the US Military.

I disagree with most of what you said.

Fundamentalist Islam wants to wage a war on Secular Modernity, and America is considered as the citadel of modern civilization. We have human rights and women's rights, and a separation of Church and State; these tenets are anathema to the core beliefs of Islamic Fundamentalists. Their aim is to spread theocracy of Middle Ages all over the world.

Understanding of the twisted minds of the Islamic Fundamentalists is very important to deal effectively with their ararchist ideology.

Obama and his followers just don't understand the mindset of annihilists of the brand of Osama bin Laden and Ayman Alzawahiri: They just hate America for what she stands for: Life, Liberty and Pursuit of Happiness for ALL.

Once Obama walks into WH, another 9/11 will come to LA, Houston or Chicago, I am very worried.

McCain's stern face would stop the annihilists on their tracks, I believe.

Bush = Inexperience = 9/11
Obama = Inexperience = Danger.

Stop Obama Now. He is ObaBush.; June 08, 2008 11:48 PM
Hippolytus said...: mike in MD,
She's got nadda (obviously).; June 08, 2008 11:48 PM
Kujo said...: Aunt Jean,

If we are going to talk about who brought up race, who started negative attacks ....

You stated that Obama started the race game, I will rebut that.

However, I do understand the nature of politics. I am not going to hold it against someone for playing the game how most in the past has played it.

For the record, at this point in time, I favor Hillary Clinton as the VP spot. If she continues with the same energy as she has done in this campain, I think she would be a powerful force that can not be matched by any of the other VP candidates. I would hope Obama would not make the same mistake as Kerry did by having his VP sit quietly by his side.

But there still are a few problems with HRC, one being is that she represents the "OLD" in politics and if Obama represents change, this goes against that notion and could be used against him.

I really like Sam Nun, but he would also be a powerful Secretary of Defence or Secretary of State. He too might be seen as the "OLD".

Also the Gov of Kansas would represent "Change" and be a good qualified VP. But I don't think she would be able to bring in the same energy that Clinton could. Clinton has 6 months of strong campaining on her side.

But if Obama is afraid of Clinton being too much in the spot light, having her quitely on his side will do no good.

So I don't bash her, but I will be truthful on how I saw what occured during the Primaries. I never thought she should exit the race, I just thought she should take a higher moral ground on her campaining. I really think she did a better and affected more people when she did not play those games. Though I understand you never saw any games being played.; June 08, 2008 11:54 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Mike in maryland about the finger it was at their last debate.

This was in response to a question from ABC News' David Wright about it taking "two Clintons to beat" Obama. Jackson had not been mentioned. He said it because ABC said it takes 2 Clintons so I guess he was refering to the fact that not 1 but 2 AA's won in SC.So what was unusal about that.

You got to really go some to play the race card with me," Clinton spewed on WHYY. "My office is in Harlem. And Harlem voted for Hillary, by the way." The Fact WAS they WERE playing the race card!

And lest we forget Hillary's, "He's not a Muslim as far as I know" [the last part in a sotto voce voice].

This one is plum silly. Do you know for a fact if he is muslin or has been a muslin. Hell no but I guess Hillary was suppose to say HELL NO HE"S NOT A MUSLIN!!

But most of all the worst part about it is Obama took advantage of the fact that the media made a mountain out of a mole hill and Obama took full advantage and stretched it even farther!.

One more thing do you know how he was the only person on the ticket for senator? It's interesting reading you should read it sometimes. Jean; June 08, 2008 11:57 PM
Emit R Detsaw said...: Stop.....

McCain would not stop another Terrorist attack. One of the main reasons those idiots attacked American soil was because we had set up a base in Saudi Arabia for Gulf War 1 and never left. They were attacking US because we were on "their" soil. They are using our presence in Iraq for the same fuel.

Only 2 solutions. 1) Leave Arab soil. 2) Wipe them out in Afghanistan and Pakistan. You have to go after Bin Laden, not waste lives in Iraq.; June 08, 2008 11:58 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Kugo you say [obama supporters] that Hillary and Obama things that they want to do is about the same. So how can she be old politics and he be changed? I do not get that at all! Jean; June 08, 2008 11:59 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Mike in Maryland but it's ok that you tell me to put up or shut up. It's a two way street. About what I said about going to the Hillary sites all I meant that if it upsets her why would she go to thoses sites if nothing else to gripe about Hillary.Besides don't yell at me I was not trying to insult I was making a point. Jean; June 09, 2008 12:03 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Obama cannot base his VP pick only on who can campaign the best or bring in the most votes. He will have to pick someone that he will want to work with everyday for the next eight years.

Just think if it was you - would you want to have to work with someone for the next eight years after they had constantly bashed you in public and then to top it off stole your thunder on the night you secured the nomination?

Or would you want to work with someone that was a team player, someone that respected you, and someone that supported your ideas?

Five more months of campaigning is not that long of a time, but four or eight years is.

Obama/Sebelius '08; June 09, 2008 12:03 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Leah no Obama did not win in TEXAS he won the caucus. Hillary won the primary. Jean; June 09, 2008 12:06 AM
Kujo said...: Stop Obama,

Sorry I must of your comments with someone elses.

But I think your delusional if you think that the Twisted Islamic Fundamentalist will somehow think "Oh my god that McCain is such a tough dude, we better not mess with him."

What needs to happen is the Majority of the Muslim world will start honoring the relationship that exists between our countries and start making life difficult within their country for the twisted Islamic Fundamentalist to exists.

Right there are too many citizens of Muslim countries that do not respect the US. In these countries the haterid breeds. As long as this happens attacts will occur no matter who is president.

I work with many Muslim co-workers who say the climate in there country is mostly pro-western. These people are actually a Majority in their country. But the movement is slow, education is slow. We need to work making these people stronger voice with in their country so the Fundamentalist become scarce.

8 years ago there was a strong pro-western movement in Iran. Since our Strong Against Terrism President came out and called the Axis of Evil, this squashed this movement.

I have heard McSame make the same type of comments when speaking of Middle East, Vietnam ....

McCain = McSame = Big playground Bully mentality = Big Problems; June 09, 2008 12:06 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Leah do you like causing trouble all you are doing is stirring up trouble STOP!!!!!! Jean; June 09, 2008 12:07 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: UPDATED VERSION!

Video about the race for the democratic nomination wrapped up in eight minutes:

http://link.brightcove.com/services/player/bcpid271557392?bctid=1593347006

Pretty cool ;)

-----------------

Oh wow - this is pretty cool too:

Obama wins: Newspaper Frontpages around the World

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6VfZ4h0uZ4

Reposted in case someone missed them up above :)

.; June 09, 2008 12:09 AM
stopOBAMAnow said...: "Only 2 solutions. 1) Leave Arab soil. 2) Wipe them out in Afghanistan and Pakistan. You have to go after Bin Laden, not waste lives in Iraq."

I agree.

1. We will leave Iraq in about 2-4 years. We can't just walk away w/o stabilizing the place. We wrecked it and we should fix it.

Obama/Hillary will leave in about 2 years, and McCain will leave in about 4 years.

2. Yes, we should chase the murderers to the ends of earth and capture them alive or dead.

McCain will do it.

In the mean time, we cannot lose track of our real enemies and we cannot afford to be naive and idealistic in our approach to this troubled world. We have many enemies in the world!

We need a strong leader - not a fuzzy talker!; June 09, 2008 12:10 AM
Aunt Jean said...: kugo thank you I'm not saying that I saw everything the way everybody else did. Everyone has a right to their opinion and that's great but there comes a point that it needs to stop and move forward instead of always looking back and saying did you hear what she said or did you hear what he said. At this point it doesn't matter anymore. Jean; June 09, 2008 12:12 AM
Kujo said...: Aunt Jean,

I am coming up with what the republicans will use against him.

But since you brought it up...

While they remain the same or simular in policy, they differ when it comes from who the represent.

Now I think Hillery has done a great job campaining and truly has reached and touch many supporters, and this is why I think she would be a good VP.

But she does come from a strong Tie with lobbiests. When she started the campaining she was mostly funded from the same old same old. She still will not withould the names of the people/compainies that they received much of there income from in the last 8 years. (The source of the income I have heard is a major stubling block for maker her the VP).

This is what I mean same old same old. Politians saying they represent the people, but since there fincial support comes from these major doners, they end up shaping more policy for them then they do for the people.

Now why do I think Obama is different here, well he has not been there that long to build up these dependencies. His support came out of nowhere from the People.; June 09, 2008 12:13 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Two facts:

The 'finger video issue' was from an Obama rally NOT a debate.

The person that wins the most elected delegates from a state wins the state - Texas is a TWO-STEP process - Obama won more TOTAL elected delegates in Texas - Obama won the state of Texas!

The only thing that matters now is that Senator Obama is the Democratic nominee!

Obama/Sebelius '08/'12; June 09, 2008 12:15 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Mike in maryland one more thing all I did was suggest not to go to Hillary sites I never once said DO NOT GO TO THOSE SITES. So please next time read all my post not just part of it.Jean; June 09, 2008 12:19 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Kujo-

You are correct.

Bill Clinton will never release the Clinton Library donor list or the Clinton Foundation donor list.

Hillary will not be fully vetted by the Obama VP committee unless Bill releases those lists.

So there is no way Hillary will be picked as VP.

The only thing she could do now is demand that Obama pick a woman for VP - and then Obama can slide Gov. Kathleen Sebelius into the slot and then everyone will be happy :)

Women will get a woman as VP in the White House and Obama will get someone that he can work with over the next four to eight years.; June 09, 2008 12:21 AM
stopOBAMAnow said...: "Twisted Islamic Fundamentalist will somehow think "Oh my god that McCain is such a tough dude, we better not mess with him."

kujo: Yes, that is the point.

You and Obama want to show weakness in dealing with the Twisted Islamic Fundamentalists.

McCain will be strong and stern.

That will make a world of difference.

That's why McCain gets A in National Security and Foreign Policy.

Please go to AOL Strawpoll. About 143 K voted and McCain gets 53% (when Dubya Bush has only 30% approval ratings). McCain is NOT Bush. McCain beats Obama today.

Just Fuzzy Talk will not cut it with the terrorists!; June 09, 2008 12:21 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Leah once again He DID NOT WIN THE PRIMARY Clinton 65 Obama 61.ONe more thing I don't care what you say the finger was at the last DEBATE!!!!!!!!!! Jean; June 09, 2008 12:23 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Leah He also did it at a rally right after that where the crowd thought it was so funny.!!!!Jean; June 09, 2008 12:24 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Leah it's real funny you are the only one that keeps pushing and pushing Sebelius. You don't know who he will pick.Hillary was vetted a long time ago!!!!! Jean; June 09, 2008 12:27 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Leah to be honest I don't like her looks!!!!Looks like a Be to me. Jean; June 09, 2008 12:29 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: I did NOT say Obama won the primary.

I said Obama WON the State of Texas.

You must add the primary and caucus delegates together to get the total number of DELEGATES won by each candidate.

Obama won MORE total delegates therefore he WON TEXAS.

You can't count half of the Texas race - just like you cannot count half of a football game.

Texas is a TWO-STEP process.

The person that wins the MOST delegates wins!

Obama won the MOST delegates in the State of Texas therefore he won!

End of subject.

Obama/Sebelius '08; June 09, 2008 12:30 AM
Independent Voter said...: stop - Please go to AOL Strawpoll. About 143 K voted and McCain gets 53% (when Dubya Bush has only 30% approval ratings). McCain is NOT Bush. McCain beats Obama today.

----

That's dumb! Why is that dumb? Straw Polls are UNRELIABLE because they are NOT scientific due to them NOT being a random selection of voters. Anyone can go and vote plain and simple. I NEVER participate in straw polls because they are not an accurate reflection of the electorate. Hell Hillary used to run 60% in those stupid straw polls which the same question was the same throughout the very end asking "Who will be the Democratic nominee?". Look what happened with that "straw poll" that you appear to believe is an accurate sampling.; June 09, 2008 12:30 AM
Aunt Jean said...: KUJO this might sound like an insult but it's not I don't think Obama's money only came from the people. Jean; June 09, 2008 12:32 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Bill is not running for office Hillary is!!!!! jean; June 09, 2008 12:34 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: If you turn on your TV and read news articles you will see that many many many people are talking about Kathleen Sebelius for Obama's VP.

Hillary is not fully vetted. That is why all the political analysts are saying that she will not be picked as VP - because of the Clinton Library donor list and the Clinton Foundation donor list have not been released for review.; June 09, 2008 12:34 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Bill and Hillary have joint accounts. They are married. Therefore all of Bill's income must be accounted for.

Until Bill releases his financial information then Hillary is not fully vetted - and someone that is not fully vetted will not be eligible to stay on Obama's short list for VP.

If Bill has nothing to hide then he will release the information. But I will bet you any amount of money he will never release the donor lists - therefore Hillary will not be considered for the VP slot.

End of Story.; June 09, 2008 12:37 AM
Independent Voter said...: aunt jean - Leah to be honest I don't like her looks!!!!Looks like a Be to me. Jean

------

Jean? Why would you say that? Do you base your political decisions on one's looks? If yes, then WE ALL are in a heep of shit. If no, then why would you even say something like that?; June 09, 2008 12:38 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Leah just as long as you insist that Obama won Texas I will keep correcting you he did not win the Primary which is 75% of the voting that counts and Hillary won the PRIMARY part and Obama won the caucus part which if you want to fight about there is plenty that was going around where he was cheating. Jean; June 09, 2008 12:38 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Dave because I get tired of Leah's trash on here and that is all she talks about it get OLD!!!! Jean; June 09, 2008 12:40 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Leah he has already said that she would be on anyones short are you calling him a liar.Besides he has never explained how Michelle's income went from 100000 or so to 250000 or so after he won the sen. Jean; June 09, 2008 12:42 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Leah one more thing Obama hasn't released all his records so when is he going to be vetted? Jean; June 09, 2008 12:44 AM
Independent Voter said...: Dave because I get tired of Leah's trash on here and that is all she talks about it get OLD!!!! Jean

----

Got it.

------

Leah,

I'm not saying that I don't like Sebelius, but at the same time, we don't know if she would pass Obama's vetting process. We really don't know who will because we don't know exactly what his requirements are going to be. From what I know about her, I do like her, but I'm sure there is a lot that we don't know about a lot of them.; June 09, 2008 12:44 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Leah no one talks as much as you do about Seblius except one goofy looking guy. Jean; June 09, 2008 12:47 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: The Texas primary is 2/3 not 3/4.

The caucus is 1/3.

Just the facts.

I will not debate who won Texas anymore because I know that 99 is a larger number than 94. And Obama got 99 delegates. So that is that.

If everyone would stick to the facts then there would be less spinning on this thread.; June 09, 2008 12:49 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Dave about the straw polls I will have to agree with you. Jean; June 09, 2008 12:49 AM
Independent Voter said...: Dave about the straw polls I will have to agree with you. Jean

Thanks Jean. :); June 09, 2008 12:51 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Independent voter said:Leah,

I'm not saying that I don't like Sebelius, but at the same time, we don't know if she would pass Obama's vetting process. We really don't know who will because we don't know exactly what his requirements are going to be. From what I know about her, I do like her, but I'm sure there is a lot that we don't know about a lot of them.
_________________

That is true. But we do know that Bill does not want to release his financial information so that is a negative even before the process begins.

Everyone on the short list will have to be vetted along with their spouses. I am sure there will be more than one that does not make the final cut.; June 09, 2008 12:51 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Leah my mistakes I had it right at first and redid it my mistake But the fact still remains the same he did not win the primary he only won the caucus part Hillary won the Primary part and you just can't stand that.You are the one spinning on this tread. Jean; June 09, 2008 12:55 AM
Mike in Maryland said...: Aunt Jean said...
One more thing do you know how he [Obama?] was the only person on the ticket for senator?

IF you mean Senator Obama, AND you mean the 2004 campaign for Senator from Illinois, here are the FACTS:

In the primary election, Barak Obama received 52% of the vote, Dan Hynes came in second after receiving 23% of the vote. That adds up to 75% of the vote, which means there were at least 2 other people on the primary ballot receiving 25% of the vote. In fact, there were five other candidates on the Democratic primary ballot.

And now we go to the general election. The Republican primary winner, Jack Ryan, withdrew from the race in June 2004. In August 2004, Alan Keyes accepted the Illinois Republican Party's nomination to replace Ryan.

Now tell me that Senator Obama "was the only person on the ticket for senator".

This tells me that you do not even try to tell the truth, but only spout lies, lies, lies.

Mike; June 09, 2008 12:57 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: WOW!

The first memo to PRESIDENT OBAMA ;)

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jared-bernstein/memo-to-the-new-president_b_105899.html

.; June 09, 2008 12:59 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Mike in Maryland what was the AA's lady name that was or wanted to be on the ticket I believe her name was Patterson ? not quit sure of her name I will have to look that up. They had a piece on cnn about it the other night. Jean; June 09, 2008 1:02 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Mike it might of been when he first got into the sen.I was just going by what the news media said that's all. Jean; June 09, 2008 1:04 AM
Mike in Maryland said...: Aunt Jean,

You are on this site. That means you have access to the Internet. That means you can put 'http://www.google.com' in your address bar and do some of the research yourself.

As I stated before, on another site, when someone was too LAZY to do the research themselves (as you appear to be), our answer to them was, "We are not your research monkeys."

Now go do yourself a favor, do your own research. If you then can't find the information, we might be able to answer the question.

However, you will need to prove that you are actually trying to find the information. Spouting lies, lies, lies in post after post, shows that you are not interested in discussing, but stirring up trouble.

BTW - Senator Obama received more total delegates from Texas, therefore he 'won' the state of Texas.

Mike; June 09, 2008 1:08 AM
Mike in Maryland said...: Aunt Jean,

Does the name Carol Moseley Braun ring a bell?

If so, or if not, google the name. Or you can go to http://www.wikipedia.org for some basic information.

Mike; June 09, 2008 1:10 AM
Aunt Jean said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; June 09, 2008 1:13 AM
Aunt Jean said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; June 09, 2008 1:20 AM
Aunt Jean said...: mike in Maryland here is the link it was in 1996 running for state senate that he was unapposed.

http://news.nationaljournal.com/articles/almanac/ils2; June 09, 2008 1:21 AM
Mike in Maryland said...: Aunt Jean,

When "he ran for senate" is what you stated.

State senate or US Senate? You were VERY clumsy in the way you wrote that statement.

When he ran for the state Senate in 1996, he was unopposed in the primary, but not in the general election.

You did not state what year you were discussing.

You did not state whether you were discussing the primary or general.

Based on that, we can discuss from our point of view, backed up by facts that validate our point of view.

I proved that you lied, since Barak Obama had 7 primary opponents in the 2004 US Senate primary, and I named his general election opponent.

If you want to have any integrity in the eyes of the other people who post here, you need to be specific in what you state, and be prepared to back up any assertions you make. Be prepared to cite reputable sites with information that confirms what you say. Otherwise, you will do nothing but earn scorn among people who CAN do research and thus back up their statements.

Mike; June 09, 2008 1:25 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Mike in maryland I'm not the one trying to start trouble you need to shutup. I wasn't trying to get you to do my work for me I've already did it.Quit being a smart mouth just like someone else on here.Or at least to me. Jean; June 09, 2008 1:25 AM
Independent Voter said...: aunt jean - your link didn't work, but that is the race Mike was talking about. Here's a better LINK that outlines it.

Mike was correct.....Alan Keyes ended up being filling Republican Jack Ryan's spot and ran against Obama in that contest.; June 09, 2008 1:31 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Mike I really don't appreciate your the way you are talking to me I don't deserve it and if that is the way you feel find and dandy don't talk to me because I really don't want to talk to jerks like you anyway. Jean Oh by the way did you go to the link I sent.I also said that Cnn did a piece on it a couple of days ago it might have been 3 or 4 days ago.You might want to straighten your shorts it's affecting your brain and your mouth.Jean; June 09, 2008 1:32 AM
Independent Voter said...: UGH! It's getting late....should have read, "Alan Keyes was the one that ended up filling Jack Ryan's spot...."; June 09, 2008 1:34 AM
Independent Voter said...: Well all, as I said before it's getting late, so I'm outta here for the night - just got done writing a 5 page paper (UGH! I hate when I procrastinate) and I'm exhausted. See ya'll tomorrow.

Take care and goodnight.; June 09, 2008 1:37 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Dave they [cnn] was talking about that that it took I believe they said 795 votes to get on the ballot her and someone else had over 1000 each and Obama got them [the off ice that looks those things over and they threw out a whole lot of them because the voters printed their name instead of using handwritting anf crap [just dump reasons] and they not me said that Obama had a big hand in that.Now if it's true or not I don't know. But if it is don't you think the people have a right to know it.Jean; June 09, 2008 1:37 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Dave have a good night. Jean; June 09, 2008 1:40 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Okay - how about we start talking about why John McCain is bad for America and why no one should vote for him :)

I actually do not know that much about him other than:

1) He cheated on his disabled wife several times before he divorced her and married a younger richer woman

2) He is 'for' the war in Iraq and has no plans to ever leave

3) He is against government involvement in health care

4) He is for the Bush tax cuts that benefit the RICH

5) He loves lobbyists and he is good buddies with Bush

6) He get confused a lot and can't give a good speech

7) He recently voted against the new GI bill because it would give TOO much to our American soldiers

8) He is a flip-flopper

I know I can do research on the internet but I just wanted everyone to mention one or two things that are the most important things that we should know about McCain... your turn ;); June 09, 2008 1:42 AM
Mike in Maryland said...: OH BOO HOO!

I'm being attacked by Aunt Jean!

What did I ever do to deserve that???

OH BOO HOO HOO HOO!

Dear Aunt Jean,

When you say "he was the only person on the ticket for senator" and you THEN come back to qualify that imprecise statement AFTER you are proven wrong, you prove that you are not here to partake in discussion, but to cause problems.

If I offend you, and you decide not to vote for Senator Obama (who, by the way, is the winner of the delegate count in Texas, and the presumptive Democratic nominee for President), I really don't care. You see, Texas will almost certainly go for the Republicant nominee anyway, so one less vote for Senator Obama will not hurt his chances in Texas.

If you are here to partake in political discussion, then be considerate of the intelligence of others. The majority of us are not so dumb that we believe anything and everything we hear, and the majority of us are smart enough to put things in context. The majority of us try to confirm the validity of statements or incidents by going to reputable sources to do that confirmation.

If the people you converse with on a daily basis are dumb enough to believe anything and everything they hear, that is your and their problem. Please do not project that stupidity onto the participants of DemConWatch discussions.

Mike; June 09, 2008 1:43 AM
Independent Voter said...: A. Jean - If it is, sure. Unfortunately the US media has become nothing more than glorified tabloids as far as I'm concerned. Don't get me wrong, it's all we really have so it is up to us to determine if it is true. I like to take most of it with a grain of salt (metaphorically speaking of course).

Now, if he had a hand in it, it proves to me that he is willing to "fight". Everyone keeps accusing him of being weak, well not if this turns out to be true. At least he would be fighting ANY and ALL irregularities that may take place around the country, unlike the wuss (Kerry) the Democrats put up in 2004 (not challenging the irregularities in Ohio).

Ok, I'm done for real this time. Goodnight.; June 09, 2008 1:44 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Her name is Alice Palmer

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/05/29/obamas.first.campaign/index.html

Obama played by the RULES.; June 09, 2008 1:47 AM
Kujo said...: Stop Obama:

You are delusional.

I think someone when someone is afraid of being punched by a bully, then the "he is a tough dude" would sway them not to do something.

But when they not only are willing to die for their cause, and even want to die for any cause, then having the "tough dude" will actually encourage them, or give reason too.

They want to hate, then need reason to hate.

In order to change things, we need to change the views within these countries. Make it unpopular to express evil opinions of the US or any other country.

Truthfully I truely understand why you, Stop Obama, will never change your view. Its like talking to the wall.

There is so much evidence in history that backs my views and disposes of yours. Take Israel and Palestine. Its been 50/60 years with Israel overpowering the Palestinians with force. Have they said "Ew, the Prime Minister of Israel is so tough that I am now afraid of blowing myself up in the market". NO! In fact as soon as a tougher Prime Minister comes in, the suicide bombers come out in floods. How long until this starts occuring in the US?; June 09, 2008 2:14 AM
Mike in Maryland said...: Aunt Jean,

Regarding signatures on ballots:

Here is an example of the irregularities that can happen.

DC law allows people from out of state to gather signatures on petitions. A few years ago, a group in DC wanted to petition for video gambling within the District (aka the 'Video Lottery Terminal Initiative of 2004'). They hired a company from Arizona to gather the signatures. The company hired people to go on the street with the petitions to get signatures.

Turns out that the petition gatherers were paid on a 'piece basis' - in other words, the more signatures they got, the more they got paid. Payment was in the neighborhood of $2 per signature. Some of the petition gatherers got greedy, went to the phone book, and entered people's names as 'signers' of the petitions.

When the District started to confirm the signatures, they found that the vast majority of the signatures on the petitions were not valid. Some of the 'signatures' that were proven to be invalid were for people who lived in the District, but had never lived at the address stated. Some HAD lived at the address on the petition, but had moved from that address one or more years prior to the alleged signature. Some of the signatures were from people who did not live in the District. When the District contacted people who supposedly signed the petitions, they found out that many did not even know about the petition, so how could they have signed it? Some could prove they were not in the city, or otherwise were unable to sign the petition the day they supposedly signed the petition. Some were in jail. Some were in the hospital. Some were not registered to vote on the day of the supposed signature.

When all the signatures were checked, it was found that the petitions did not contain enough VALID signatures of District voters to place the question on the ballot.

Eventually several of the people who were involved in the petition process were prosecuted for illegalities, found guilty and fined.

THAT is why petition signatures are checked - to make sure that they are valid. And when the petitions are not correct in form and format, they cause the validating board to look much closer to make sure the signatures are valid.

Any candidate who does not take care to make sure there are valid signatures on the petition of his/her candidacy, or his/her opponent, is derelict in their duty to a fair election process.

Mike; June 09, 2008 2:17 AM
Kujo said...: Aunt Jean,

Obama money only coming from the people.

No it did not, I agree. But it is a small percentage. The big money would of never bet on Obama beating Clinton.

So the amount of money that came in from the Big Supporters would not have the same effect as it does on most other politians.

But lets understand another point. Sometimes it is good to have this "OLD" style politics because this is the way politics works. If you need to get something done, you have to make the right people happy.

We can only hope that the Obama wave will continue to carry into the White House and he will not need to follow the paths of the old way. But incase he does, having HRC on his side might be benificial as long as he does not forget what he stands for.; June 09, 2008 2:21 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Mike in maryland I agree with you. jean; June 09, 2008 2:59 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Mike in Maryland I never said when he was running for Senator I said the senate . Jean; June 09, 2008 3:09 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Goodnight to all Jean.; June 09, 2008 3:11 AM
Kujo said...: Apissedant:

Thanks ( realized I missed that 9:32 post)

Emma,

Love the quote from H. Post. Many "experts" have knocked Obamas debating skills. I think viewers have had diffent views. Yes he does not come across like he does when he gives his speeches, and maybe this is what he is compared to, but when you look at the substance of his responses, the are pretty sound.

He has been attacked on some of the things he has said in debates, you would think he would try to recant. But no. He has but thought into these statements and stands by them only to prove his strength. This is the sign of a good debater.

I do realize the problems he had in his last debate, but I blame that more in that he was trying to be above the negative game when the only game being played was that of negativity.; June 09, 2008 3:53 AM
ed iglehart said...: " Bill is not running for office Hillary is!!!!! jean"

What office is that?; June 09, 2008 5:01 AM
ed iglehart said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; June 09, 2008 5:01 AM
Mike in Maryland said...: Aunt Jean said...
Mike in Maryland I never said when he was running for Senator I said the senate .

And the difference is . . . .?????

The winner of an election to the state Senate is called a Senator when sworn in.

The winner of an election for the US Senate is called a Senator when sworn in.

Again, I ask, "And the difference is . . . .?????"

In the movie "Forest Gump", there was a saying, something about 'stupid is as stupid does'? Your line of argument sorta, kinda, somewhat, maybe fits that saying. And it might even fit you?

Mike; June 09, 2008 5:05 AM
ed iglehart said...: "Only a fool or a fraud talks tough or romantically about war,"

Hmmm.
Use TAO to help rule people
This world has no need for weapons
Which soon turn on themselves
Where armies camp, nettles grow;
After each war, years of famine.
The most fruitful outcome
Does not depend on force,
But succeeds without arrogance
Without hostility
Without pride
Without resistance
Without violence.
If these things prosper and grow old,
This is called not-TAO.
Not-TAO soon ends.
Pu tao tsao i
--Lao Tzu ~2400 years ago; June 09, 2008 7:57 AM
ed iglehart said...: CAMPAIGN '08

McCain Cites His Experience
Over Obama's
Says opponent's never napalmed a village, married a beer heiress or been caught up in a savings and loan scandal.

OLMERT VISITS WHITE HOUSE
Tells Bush he envies his high approval rating.

WORLD NEWS
Bad News: U.S. Funding, Training
Group Aiding Taliban, Al Qaeda
Good news: if we’re fighting ourselves, we can’t lose.

;-))))
ed; June 09, 2008 8:37 AM
JayW said...: Wow... I just got through reading all of the posts from last night.

Two things are very evident from all of the postings:

1. Aunt Jean is obviously full of anger and irrational. Reading her posts are comical, because you know how mad she is when she is typing them... but could you imagine living next to her or working with her? Having to actually hear those rants and arguments every day would be torture. Lets all count our blessings that we only have to deal with her online. She must be a walking headache for those around her.

2. stopOBAMAnow (or whatever his name is)is not very intelligent. Not only does he speak out on things he knows nothing about... but he just keeps repeating the same points as if suddenly everyone will agree. It is evident from his posts that he doesn’t understand the military, economics, or civil issues. It is sad that someone can be so delusional.; June 09, 2008 8:43 AM
sean broom said...: RT Rybak and Josie Johnson are Minnesota's two add on delegates, they were elected this weekend.; June 09, 2008 9:31 AM
apissedant said...: jay,
You're a bigger man than me. I couldn't finish reading all of those posts. I thought we had agreed to stop arguing the HRC/BHO issue, but apparently some people were not done.... urgh... The same arguments from the same people for two months running now.; June 09, 2008 9:40 AM
Vicki in Seattle said...: I dunno what a Be is, but I guess it's something bad. I thought it was the symbol for Beryllium in the periodic table.

ps, don't bother informing me what it means, all I have to know is that it's a Bad Word.; June 09, 2008 10:09 AM
Independent Voter said...: Jayw,

Aunt Jean really is a nice individual, just give her time. So many people had a lot invested (physically and emotionally) during this campaign season. When things don't go the way they had hope, disappointment sets in, and that disappointment leads to alot of other emotions. The best thing that can be done is to speak civilly and positive about our chosen candidate and go on the attack with the REAL opponent which in this case is NOT Aunt Jean - it is indeed John McCain.

----

Stopobamanow is another story - he/she/it is a Republican shrill using nothing but Republican talking points to denigrate the opponent. This individual is not open to new ideas or new ways of doing things....they FEAR change as opposed to embrace it. The best we can do with people like this is simply ignore them and they will go away. I know it is much easier to fight them, but it is entirely too emotionally draining and soon we realize that we have become just as negative as they are. Can we say "energy vampire?"; June 09, 2008 10:30 AM
JayW said...: Vicki,

I know it is really difficult to understand anything Aunt Jean writes… she has a very limited command of the English language and combined with her poor typing skills the message gets a little (or a lot) garbled most of the time.

My attempt at translating what “a Be” meant was Aunt Bea. I think that she was trying to say that Sebelius looks like Aunt Bea to her. But who really knows… she just types away hoping that someone will actually listen to her idiotic and unimportant thoughts.; June 09, 2008 10:32 AM
JayW said...: Mr. I. Voter,

I guess you and I will have to agree to disagree on Aunt Jean.

I'm not feeling it. Not the definition of "nice individual" that I have.; June 09, 2008 10:34 AM
Vicki in Seattle said...: you know, for a couple of folks here, I just scroll past what they write, because I know it will always be the same thing - they seem to be from Operation Chaos or something similar. blah blah blah, timmy fell in the well (AGAIN!). So I ignore it, because I'm not a collie. and I have free will.

Aunt Jean, on the other hand, I think was genuinely invested in the primary/caucus campaign, and we should probably just leave her to heal rather than engage her.

Deal?; June 09, 2008 10:39 AM
Vicki in Seattle said...: ps, thanks for explaining what "Be" might have meant. I never would have connected it to "Aunt Bea". :-); June 09, 2008 10:42 AM
ed iglehart said...: Now here's quiet graciousness!

Laura Bush supports Michelle Obama.

Well, well, well. Good for her.

xx
ed; June 09, 2008 10:48 AM
Karen Anne said...: Aunt Jean,

I've skipped over a lot of the yelling in here from both sides.

As I mentioned, I looked at the rally video where Obama was supposed to have done the finger thing, and I do not see it. Since you say it was done in a debate also, can you provide a video link to that part of whichever debate it was?

(I find it incredible that if it was done in a televised debate, the news media was not all over it.)

Also, I am still waiting for any other examples from you of Obama trashing Hillary. I am willing to listen, read, watch a video.

So far, you have not produced anything. I know it is very easy for rumors to travel, esp. when people are upset. This is the time to see if there is anything that actually happened, or if they are unfounded.; June 09, 2008 10:50 AM
Karen Anne said...: Ed,

I saw that news item this morning. Can you imagine what it must be like to be Laura Bush? I view this as her little blow for freedom.

Free Laura! :-); June 09, 2008 10:52 AM
apissedant said...: Dave,
Very nice words, sums it up well. Stop/Yam have given us no reason to really pay attention what they say. They have stuck to the same story regardless of what the facts say. Aunt Jean I have had several positive conversations with myself. I know that if you engage her nicely, she will engage you nicely back. Unfortunately there is a culture of revenge, retribution, and escalating the nonsense.; June 09, 2008 10:59 AM
greywolf said...: Okay, I am going to be nice in my assessment by simply saying this.

The primary race is over. We can not sit in here and continue to debate who said what, who did what, to whom. That kind of nonsense is extreemly counter productive. GET OVER IT ALREADY WILL YA. Yes some of you have raw nerves, have invested a lot of energy in your chosen candidate...all I can say is life sometimes does not give us what we want for what ever reason.
Both candidates took a lot of crap from the media. Some candidates shoveled a lot of crap at the other candidates. Regardless of what was said or done we now have one democratic nominee. It is time to move on, leave all the crap for the past 16 months behind.
Now is the time to start doing what needs to be done to Elect the candidate of the party we choose to align our selves with. If your republican or democrat give your position and above all supporting facts to back up your agruement. Other wise your wasting your time and should not be engaged in an adult conversation.

If you a supporter of Hillary who is not the democratic nominee, I am truly sorry that you candidate did not win as it has left you feeling dejected and a bit angry.
But please try to remember it was not the rest of us that caused this loss. Her loss can be atributed to several factors.
Campaign strategy. Media. Poor advise from campaign staff. Poor advise from husband. Husband not knowing when to put a lock on his mouth. It was not Obama that said, did or implied any thing sexist, disingenious, rasist, nor demeaning to the character and leadership ability of Sen. Clinton.
That fact is he was very generous in his comments to her character.
So again lets move on, GET OVER WHAT EVER IT IS THAT BUGS THE CRAP OUT OF YOU.
The rest of us are only interested in one thing and that is getting the democratic nominee elected as the next President of the U.S. Nothing more or nothing less.
You have two choices as I see it. You can either provide constructive help in the process or you can sit back adding your republican spin (which will be ignored) or you can continue to complain about how unfair it is that She lost in her bid for the momination. Either way this process will continue to move on with our with out you. It is my sincere hope it is with you onboard, but if it is not then it is your loss not mine.; June 09, 2008 11:20 AM
greywolf said...: Some interesting reading concerning Iraq and Iran...

http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/meast/06/09/iraq.iran/index.html; June 09, 2008 11:28 AM
apissedant said...: grey,
Go to johnmccain.com and watch his media advertisements. My favorite is the one about global warming and the environment. For all his complaints about Barack just being a bunch of pretty words with no substance, I have never seen an ad or a policy with less substance or more pretty words.
He talks about the silly extremes, on the one side denying the problem, on the other side talking about taxes and pesky REGULATIONS. He realizes the problem is real, and it is a national security problem that he will fix. Who knows how though, he didn't mention what the RIGHT thing to do, just said everyone else was wrong. Oh... the straight talk express. Does anyone know the exact date that the straight talk express was hijacked?; June 09, 2008 11:28 AM
Beryl said...: Laura Bush was correctly explained that that Michelle was "more" proud. Michelle said "really" proud which is the same thing but everyone likes to leave out that qualifying word.

I'm really concerned that the RNC is planning a hatchet job on Michelle and it just isn't fair.

Cindy married a man who cheated on and dumped his first wife like an old shoe. She then illegally obtained drugs using a charity. The RNC is living in glass mansion and shouldn't go there.; June 09, 2008 11:41 AM
greywolf said...: apissedant said...
grey,
Go to johnmccain.com and watch his media advertisements. My favorite is the one about global warming and the environment. For all

I have watched that already, actually saw it on tv from start to finish. McCain will have some serious problems that is for sure.
He wants to remain focused on the war, which is his strong suit. However, I will be willing to bet that Obama will use the letters from the Iraqi parliment as well as reports from that region against McCain. McCain will loose that debate as his position is as full of holes as a humvee after a road side bomb.

I would love to see Obama engage McCain on the economy. That is where McCain is the weakest. McCain says Bush is out of touch with the American Economy, that being an understatement only adds to Obama's agruement about republicans. Also if you watch McCain and his economic position, he is also way out of touch. His plan is basically to do as little as possible and let it heal it's self. He has no plan to move into the next hundred years let alone the future, holding that position will only bury him.

It will be nice to see this GE get a full head of steam behind it. I am ready of it all to be over and for us to begin to move forward.

As to someone asking about my plan to use vacated school building to house the homeless. NO I have no deisre to have that contract to renevate them. When My Remodeling business was forclosed on by the banks and lenders, my license went with it as well as my insurance and bond. So, I have no asperations for more work in that area; my asperatins are nothing more that to get americans off the streets and a chance to rebuild their lives to some level of normalicy.; June 09, 2008 11:56 AM
greywolf said...: karen Anne said...
Aunt Jean,

I've skipped over a lot of the yelling in here from both sides.

As I mentioned, I looked at the rally video where Obama was supposed to have done the finger

That finger thing has been given so much coverage I am surprised that it cant be found by anyone that still debates the issue. I actually watched it several time as well as all his debates, rallies and such... Obama has the tendency to use his finger to scratch the side of his face, also when searching for words, ect.. Of all the rallies, debates, interviews ect..I counted 21 times he scratched his face or put his finger to his head while thinking...he used his index finger 11 times and his middle finger 10 times. He was not flipping any one off. It is just another one of those things that people try to use as an excuse for disliking Obama, or to not vote for him. Just more propiganda and republican crap hitting the internet.; June 09, 2008 12:04 PM
jean said...: RE Independant Voter
You have respect for others that is very refreshing.
Aunt Jean is a good person.
I still have a lot to think about.
Has the weather been great or what.
Kids are on break and living at the beach or games.
Why anyone thinks these attacks will accomplish anything for November I have no idea.
Hopefully you get some Beach time.
jean; June 09, 2008 12:27 PM
Joshua said...: Here’s what I really give Aunt Jean and Hillary.; June 09, 2008 12:30 PM
Beryl said...: That was very unkind, Mike. I think we should leave the negativity for those who do NOT support Obama and stay on high ground.

Woman are NOT shunning Obama:
http://blogs.usatoday.com/onpolitics/2008/06/are-women-shunn.html

I'm so proud of my sisters!; June 09, 2008 12:42 PM
greywolf said...: Hey mike.,...

Your little gift to Aunt Jean and Hillary...is one example of why there is so much turmoil in here. Stuff like that is completely uncalled for, not only is it rude, it is completely disrespectful. You may not like Hillary and Jean for what ever reason you have, but that is way out of line.; June 09, 2008 1:02 PM
ed iglehart said...: Greywolf,
"As to someone asking about my plan to use vacated school building to house the homeless. NO I have no deisre to have that contract to renevate them."

it was me and I was only kidding!

;-)
ed; June 09, 2008 1:06 PM
Joshua said...: No Beryl, I found a picture of Aunt Jean. According to her posts she has no idea what a bird looks like. So, I am merely humbly educating her.

I’d just as soon she stopped posting her hallucinations.; June 09, 2008 1:11 PM
Joshua said...: I just received an email from her and she included her picture. She looks nothing like you think. Check for yourself.; June 09, 2008 1:19 PM
Beryl said...: Mike,
I'm insulted by your posts today and you too will now go on "ignore". I'm also wondering if you are actually member of the RNC here to stir up strife.

Aunt Jean and others,
This guy does not represent Obama supporters.; June 09, 2008 1:27 PM
ed iglehart said...: Obama "un-plugged"

A nice, down-home meeting and chat with campaign workers following the end off the primary marathon.

Nice
ed; June 09, 2008 1:31 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Mike and JayW-

I am very disappointed in both of you today.

It is one thing to disagree about the issues and point out facts and rebut comments that you believe that are not true but it is another thing to personally attack a person which is also against the rules of this thread.

Ya'll are just trying to stir up shit and I recommend that both of you delete your nasty comments and photos before Aunt Jean sees them and gets even more riled up - which is not going to help with the unity of our party.

Thank you.

.; June 09, 2008 2:21 PM
Meg said...: Mike: That was very rude. Really.

This is a great blog!! Most of us are intelligent, reasonable people who see the value of facts. You guys have taught me a lot! Aunt Jean, Yam and Stop are an interesting part. Just remember how much you missed Yam when he left. It was hysterical.

Let's try very hard not to insult each other and if that's not possible, then let's try very hard not to take the bait.; June 09, 2008 2:21 PM
greywolf said...: Just some information as to what Obama is doing...

http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/06/obama_to_partner_with_elizabet.php; June 09, 2008 2:27 PM
greywolf said...: And it is said I will vote for McCain befor I vote for Obama... Ladies you need to read this... you may change your mind.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/06/09/mccain-campaign-removes-c_n_106065.html; June 09, 2008 2:29 PM
greywolf said...: Again more on McCain... this man's mind is not right... I swear he has lost much of what use to be a memory.. maybe borderling alzheimer? You tell me...

http://www.politico.com/blogs/jonathanmartin/0608/McCain_DID_deliver_line_tweaking_press.html; June 09, 2008 2:33 PM
greywolf said...: some more information to read..

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/09/opinion/09kristol.html?_r=1&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss&pagewanted=all&oref=slogin; June 09, 2008 2:38 PM
Meg said...: There are so many McCain gaffes out there. Don't forget "bomb bomb bomb bomb bomb Iran" Thank God for youtube. It will be interesting to see what the Obama campaign does with his lapses. Probably nothing. Though I predict supporters and cable news (well not FOX) will have a field day. Maybe.; June 09, 2008 2:41 PM
greywolf said...: Now this is really stupid.. this man has lost it all together...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/andy-borowitz/mccain-vows-to-campaign-i_b_106055.html; June 09, 2008 2:48 PM
Beryl said...: greywolf,

Andy Borowitz' political parody was hilarious.

I love this:

'In the conclusion of his remarks, Sen. McCain vowed that his campaign would employ "the latest technology" to spread his message across the thirteen colonies.

"We will use the telegraph key, the carrier pigeon, and the pony," he said.'; June 09, 2008 2:57 PM
Karen Anne said...: Oops. McCain's website calls Hillary a bitch.

They're scrubbed it as of today, but HuffPost has a screen grab at
http://big.assets.huffingtonpost.com/screengrab.jpg

And the (easier to read) original article is at:
http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2007/12/quote-for-the-d.html#more

Is that a good enough link for you, Aunt Jean? Come home to the Democratic party, we still love you.; June 09, 2008 2:58 PM
greywolf said...: There was an article not too long ago also.. where McCain referred to his wife using the "C***" word...go figure.. and women want this man as president. I wish I could find that article but alas have had no luck.. I will continue to search for it.; June 09, 2008 3:21 PM
Karen Anne said...: greywolf,

google knows all. Perhaps you have safesearch set, which might have filtered it out:

The Real McCain by Cliff Schecter, which will arrive in bookstores next month, reports an angry exchange between McCain and his wife that happened in full view of aides and reporters during a 1992 campaign stop. An advance copy of the book was obtained by RAW STORY.

Three reporters from Arizona, on the condition of anonymity, also let me in on another incident involving McCain's intemperateness. In his 1992 Senate bid, McCain was joined on the campaign trail by his wife, Cindy, as well as campaign aide Doug Cole and consultant Wes Gullett. At one point, Cindy playfully twirled McCain's hair and said, "You're getting a little thin up there." McCain's face reddened, and he responded, "At least I don't plaster on the makeup like a trollop, you cunt."; June 09, 2008 3:26 PM
apissedant said...: Why are there so many bipolar people in this forum? Some people are completely nice, intelligent, and respectful one day... and then the next day they fall of the deep end. What gives?

I have personally insulted a few people, though as far as I can recall, always after they drew first blood. Not that it makes me right, but at least I'm consistent and you know what to expect. Jay is consistent, and although he often ruffles a few feathers, I think he is an ok guy and personally I hope he continues to post. I may not always agree with him, but he has not been that disrespectful (IMHO).; June 09, 2008 3:31 PM
greywolf said...: Found it... this is another classic example of the kind of Man McCain is. Excerpts from a newly released book about McCain.

http://rawstory.com/news/2008/McCain_temper_boiled_over_in_92_0407.html; June 09, 2008 3:37 PM
apissedant said...: grey, you're late! Several people posted more info on that already... and I just read that article. I had the condition of anonymity. I wish people would grow some balls and own up to their accusations.; June 09, 2008 3:38 PM
greywolf said...: So again.. i just do not get the trend that is being reported that if they cant have hillary they will not vote or vote for McCain? What woman would vote for a man that referrs to women this way?; June 09, 2008 3:40 PM
ed iglehart said...: Greywolf,

It's here!

Your friendly librarian service
xx
ed; June 09, 2008 3:41 PM
apissedant said...: Holy crap. Some guy called commonsense1 posted a comment on commonsense1 that is retarded. He says it's just fine to vote for McCain, because he's super liberal anyways. Besides, abortions don't matter, because American women can obtain the morning after pill in Canada, so no problems there. Apparently it is completely convenient and easy to fly or drive to Canada from Florida. Also, apparently, there will be no problems anymore with fetuses growing in the ovarian tube or other complications during pregnancy that would prevent the fetus from being viable and endanger the woman's health.

Good to know that complications with pregnancies will be eliminated by electing McCain.; June 09, 2008 3:45 PM
greywolf said...: I agree apissedent.. however, it has been known for a long time that McCain is a hot head that looses his temper quite easily, as well as has in the past referred to women in very disengenious terms. My point is I just do not get it how people can vote for him... but that is just me.

The book however is going to be on the shelves soon if they are not already.; June 09, 2008 3:46 PM
greywolf said...: This is interesting...

Election 2008 Obama McCain Spread
Real Clear Average 47.4 43.9 Obama +3.5
Favorable Ratings +11.8 +6.5 Obama +5.3
Intrade Market Odds 62.7 35.6 -
Electoral College Obama McCain Toss Ups
RCP Electoral Count 228 190 120
No Toss Up States 272 266 -
Battleground States Obama McCain Spread
Pennsylvania 46.3 40.5 Obama +5.8
Ohio 44.0 42.7 Obama +1.3
Michigan 40.3 43.3 McCain +3.0
Wisconsin 46.0 44.0 Obama +2.0
Virginia 43.0 44.3 McCain +1.3
Florida 40.0 48.3 McCain +8.3
Charts | Maps | News | Senate Polls | Latest Polls; June 09, 2008 3:49 PM
apissedant said...: I meant posted a comment on USA Today; June 09, 2008 3:55 PM
apissedant said...: grey,
Yeah, I am not a McCain fan by any means, at least not anymore. I just realize how many unsubstantiated claims I have read about Obama, McCain, Clinton, Clinton, Bush, and countless others. If I believe one, I really have to believe them all. I refuse to believe that all of my leaders are that atrocious, so I think I'll stick as much as possible to claims with evidence.

I am sure several of the claims are true for several of those people, but I just need proof to actually convict them of it morally. I figure there is more than enough evidence to dislike both Bush and McCain, so the unsubstantiated claims are not necessary.; June 09, 2008 3:59 PM
Oreo said...: Thanks to everybody for sticking around! We promise to keep the site well worth coming back too.

New Open Thread here

Comments on this one are now locked.; June 09, 2008 4:02 PM

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