Democratic Convention Watch: Open Thread

Tuesday, April 01, 2008

Open Thread

WE'VE MOVED! Democratic Convention Watch is now at http://www.DemocraticConventionWatch.com

What is McCain's latest "senior moment", what does Obama need to do to win in November or whatever else is on your mind.

And please be excellent to one another. We do not accept name calling or any attacks on our commenters. Any objectionable comments will be deleted. Try to be civil.

Thanks!

New Open Thread here
This one is now closed for comments.

4188 comments:

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jean said...: Leah,
JFK has his wacker everywhere than where it should be.
Was he lousy?
jean; June 29, 2008 7:02 PM
Meg said...: Jean:

Do you think Bill played a significant role in the economy, or was it just better while he was in the WH? I don't know why I'm talking about Bill. He hasn't been particularly significant lately.; June 29, 2008 7:04 PM
jean said...: Typo
Had.
I know he,s dead.; June 29, 2008 7:06 PM
jean said...: emma,
He was in office for 8 years.
It is difficult to believe he did not.
I also think he is quite important right now.
Obama did not ask to speak to him because he had free time.
I do not believe it is to slap him about the head.
Bill is not a stupid man.
To totally disavow his accomplishments I find disrespectful.
During the Clinton years how did your family do?
jean; June 29, 2008 7:13 PM
apissedant said...: COMPLETELY OFF TOPIC

Dave,
I almost made a joke about turning into my mother. About 4 years ago she and my father gave me dishes and cookware when I moved into an apartment in Maryland because they felt I needed more. They gave me a set of 4 32 ounce cups, and I said, "sweet, that'll hold a lot of liquor."
My mom responded, "you're right, that will hold a lot of liquid."
She was completely serious, we all laughed at her.; June 29, 2008 7:15 PM
Meg said...: Jean:

Sorry if I sounded flippant. I liked Bill. Lately, though, there have been a few times when things he said did not help Hillary. I also got the feeling that many of her supporters were really HIS supporters trying to relive a time that is gone.; June 29, 2008 7:22 PM
Independent Voter said...: lol p'd ant; June 29, 2008 7:23 PM
apissedant said...: As far as Presidents are concerned as to considering what they accomplished WHILE IN OFFICE: Bill Clinton and George H. W. Bush are at the top of my list since Johnson. The economic boom in the 90's I think has been rightly attributed to the policies of these two men. This included INCREASING THE TOP MARGINAL TAX RATE. Items like this allowed bringing about a balanced budget, which did wonderful work stabilizing our currency, and creating consumer confidence. They funded and created important social programs that helped people become contributing members of society, without inspiring people to be lazy and collect government checks for nothing. They balanced the right and the left, and created a nation that allowed many people to prosper and better themselves.

Economically, no one accomplished these items since FDR, but Johnson of course did wonderful work with equality in our country, that had not been seen since Lincoln.

That is my two cents. Carter is a great man, and I think he was a victim of circumstance more than anything else. Everything went wrong at once, and no one trusted the Executive Branch due to the actions of Ford and Nixon. Unfortunate timing can screw anyone, imagine in FDR had been elected President in 1928 instead of 1932.; June 29, 2008 7:25 PM
jean said...: apissedant,
Clinton basically cut spending and made individuals responsible for their actions. He had tp fight tooth and nail.
Obama now thinks NAFTA is not all that bad.
I still go back and forth on that.
A 16 years old who has 2 children should not be in the system forever.
Training was made available and then you should be cut off.
Assistance yes, full support no.
jean; June 29, 2008 7:33 PM
apissedant said...: TEST; June 29, 2008 7:37 PM
apissedant said...: jean,
I am basically in agreement with you. The question is how much assistance is necessary? The idea is to give the person enough fish while you're also teaching them to fish. If you give them just enough fish to live, and never teach them how to fish, the limit will just cause them to starve once off the program.

Bush has typically been cutting funding on programs that allow people to get of of government welfare. He has allowed college expenses to increase to a level not affordable to a large portion of society, while still reducing educational funding and student aid funding. Then he complains about the people that don't make better of themselves, while taking away every opportunity that would have allowed them to do just that.

Despite having VA benefits, including a kicker, I have still had a 20k swing from positive to negative cash in my account. During that time, I have kept spending to an absolute minimum, to no avail. I work at the University, but it just doesn't pay enough. That is WITH VA benefits, how can non-Veterans possibly manage?; June 29, 2008 7:45 PM
suzihussein22 said...: i v-Hey, you're older than me. Correction, because it's age before beauty. My husband has already started studying for the fall term. He's going to be taking 20 hours.

aperturbedant-I hope you can hold your liquid, lol.

jean-help, not full support-I agree. We got assistance with a formula up until our children turned 1 year. They started out lactose intolerant. They even had problems with the soy stuff.; June 29, 2008 7:48 PM
apissedant said...: soft,
lol, and you used one of my favorite words! Perturbed! You and Dave are totally spying on me. You have some sort of a virus that lets you look at what I type and look up on the internet.; June 29, 2008 7:52 PM
jean said...: emma,
If we could go back to that time I would take it in a heart beat.
I am beginning to wonder if the US can claim bankruptcy and that would be a good decision.
While HRC is her own person it is impossible that husband and wife have totally different views.
Yes he did not help her with a few comments, he was the president,
he does have some different views and yes he is cocky.
I think people look at her because she has a similar perserverance.
And she is smarter than crap.
It is interesting watching Carter,
he is getting cockier by the week.
He was never like this during his presidency, maybe that was the problem.
Bill Clinton is still a powerful person and is pretty young still.
jean; June 29, 2008 7:53 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: jean-

I really did not bash Bill Clinton.

All I said was that he = the past.

That is the way I look at it. After a president is no longer president they are part of 'history' and it is then time to move further into the future.

I really don't see how you came to the conclusion that I bashed Bill by what I said in my previous post.

.; June 29, 2008 8:02 PM
jean said...: apissedant,
The line is so hard to find.
I personally feel that if someone goes to school they should get the rewards.
If you don't want training you are out of luck.
Rationally they will repay in the future in taxes.
SS
I hear you. We had a situation similar.
That is why I think Universal Health Care is the crux of getting the economy straighted out.
Proper care and reimbursement to Health Care Providers will advance less sickness to overall productivity and less cost.
jean; June 29, 2008 8:10 PM
apissedant said...: A note on the idea of public assistance and retraining employees.

NAFTA and CAFTA were both bills that would undoubtedly hurt people in low skill jobs like textile factories. The government made no program to assist these people or retrain them for other jobs. They let entire communities die. Assuming NAFTA and CAFTA were good overall for the country, the government still has a responsibility to those who would be hurt by them, and did nothing. The government is there to represent and protect all of us (Do not misunderstand my statement. I am not advocating that they take care of and provide for all of us, or anything else even remotely Communist in theory).

SOME companies have shown more foresight and compassion to their workers than our government has to its employers(taxpayers and voters). Ford recently closed the F-150 plant here in Norfolk, Va. Upon closing, workers had several options: 1) Take a buyout. 2) Some were allowed to transfer to other plants in the nation. 3) Go to college to be retrained for another profession on Ford's tab.

One student that I taught, and one student that I took a class alongside, were both taking advantage of this program. Ford is giving them a small salary, and paying for their education until they are able to finish a degree.

Our government once did this same thing. After WWII, soldiers came home with no jobs available, and the military had no need to continue employing them; the GI bill was born. This was just one of so many genius things born out of WWII and FDR.

Our current leaders need to learn from the mistakes and successes of their predecessors. I don't know if it is arrogance or ignorance, but they have continually failed the American people. Most of our current problems were completely preventable, but Bush, Congress, and to a lesser extent even Clinton, failed to see the writing on the wall.; June 29, 2008 8:11 PM
suzihussein22 said...: How about apa? Oh, and it's not paranoia if we really are after you. I read the report, but I've been brushing up on my historical documents also that deal with our independence. I'm thinking about what the kids could a report on for a summer assignment to me. Also, I helped my husband with a minor leak in the kitchen at lunchtime.; June 29, 2008 8:12 PM
apissedant said...: jean,
Completely agreed, 100%. It is hard to find, and everyone makes mistakes; leaders, and even great leaders included.; June 29, 2008 8:13 PM
jean said...: Leah,
The comment sounds like past history is negative.
The way we grow is from history.
Also, Bill Clinton is not an old man.
I guarentee he will be current history and in a powerful way and actually he is now.
Mandela is actually a friend of Bill Clinton's.
Doesn't sound like history to me.
jean; June 29, 2008 8:15 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: jean-

For goodness sake ... go back up thread and read what stop0 said right before I made my comment.

stop0 is making Bill out to be a KingMaker again ... and he thinks the whole world revolves around the Clintons.

The point I was trying to make is that the Clinton era is now over and in the past. I did not say that Bill and Hillary will not still do good works, but the big grand era of the Clintons is over.

This is the here and now and the future is coming.

The future will bring a NEW president and NEW history. And I am looking forward to the country moving forward.

Obama will still win the election with or without Bill's permission! stop0 is delusional.

.; June 29, 2008 8:22 PM
jean said...: Leah,
Obama is just a man.
He has a excellent message with a fantastic marketin machine behind him.
He is going into office with people of whom most could be his father or mother. Will some of those have attitudes?
He is going to tackle some of the worst problems in US history.
He has a man who was previously a president who did pretty darn good but still had large of amounts of his itinerary turned down in congress IF HE COULD GET IT THAT FAR.
That x-president still has a lot of power and will for a long time.
If you think the Clintons are over you are nuts.
HRC is another story.
Obama is being smart.
Can't you back him on this.
jean; June 29, 2008 8:34 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: jean-

Bill Clinton is just a man also.

I am sorry, I am not a Bill Clinton groupie.

I believe the country can move forward just fine without major input from the Clintons.

As far as Obama's age goes I do not think he is too young. As far as McCain goes McCain is too old and out of touch.; June 29, 2008 8:44 PM
apissedant said...: jean,
Leah is just saying that Obama does not have to, nor should he grovel at Bill's feet. If Bill really doesn't want to play ball, we move on. He is not king, nor kingmaker. I doubt this will happen, Bill may have a large ego, but I think he still cares about this country and the democratic party. Also, because he DOES have a big ego, he will still want a piece of the action in the future. That means he has to play ball.

Leah is only commenting on the worse case scenario proposed by stop, where the whole party implodes around crazy old Bill. She is not advocating that Bill is crazy or that he has no power. She is just arguing against the opposite.; June 29, 2008 8:44 PM
apissedant said...: Leah and Jean,
You are both on the same team. Don't feed the elephant. The elephant spews crap hoping to stir up trouble between us. Stop letting him do it. Leah, remember we all promised to try to ignore him, I know it is hard, but keep trying. ;); June 29, 2008 8:49 PM
jean said...: Leah,
The age thing is a fact not a comment.

Ap,
Exactly.
Why the assumption of grovelling is even brought up I have no idea.
If HRC is with Obama in Unity then why are followers so condemning when it does reach their goal.
A win in November.
What logic is there for Bill to squash everything?
It is looking like 16 years in the whitehouse.
Leah,
I am not a groupie. I look at history and the facts.
You really are throwing stones at your glass house.
jean; June 29, 2008 8:52 PM
suzihussein22 said...: apissedant-...it's not paranoia if we really are after you. I read the report, but I've been brushing up on my historical documents also that deal with our independence. I'm thinking about what the kids could a report on for a summer assignment to me. Also, I helped my husband with a minor leak in the kitchen at lunchtime.; June 29, 2008 8:54 PM
apissedant said...: soft,
lol; June 29, 2008 8:58 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: jean-

I am just going to assume you did not read stop0's post and therefore you do not understand what I was trying to say... and leave it at that ;)

.; June 29, 2008 9:01 PM
jean said...: Leah,
I did read SO's post.
You broke the rule and therefore are not perfect.
So there.
I honestly find it very offensive for derogatory comments for Bill Clinton just like I would for any president.
A job that is 24hrs aday 365 days a year for 4-8 years.
This person is also elected by the people.
Disagreement is fine, do it all the time.
Derogatory, degrating comments are offensive.
With their pay I would never take the job;); June 29, 2008 9:08 PM
suzihussein22 said...: NO! NO! NO!-

http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/meast/06/29/us.iran/index.html; June 29, 2008 9:13 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: I do want to add though that Senator Obama is not some wet-behind-the ears newcomer.

He is also not 'unexperienced' as the mass media, Clintons, and republicans would like you to think.

People tend to forget he has more experience than Abraham Lincoln did when Lincoln became president.

No one ever mentions that Obama has a degree in International Relations, no one ever mentions his trips to Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan and other countries. No one hardly ever mentions is deep understanding of the U.S. Constitution. It is rarely mentioned that he has had an extraordinary ability to manage the people in his campaign which consists of over 1000 employees. The list goes on and on and on.

The fact is that Senator Obama is a strong, intelligent, and capable person in his own right.

I do think that Bill Clinton should stay in the background and campaign very little. Bill has the tendency to create 'drama' and the Obama campaign is big on NO DRAMA.; June 29, 2008 9:13 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: jean -

LOL... I have never said I was perfect! I am NOT perfect.

Bill Clinton is not perfect either ;)

I have respect for Bill as an EX-president, but I think he should go on off and do his Foundation work and then when he tires with that he should take Hillary and go off to an exotic island to spend his retirement in peace and enjoy his last days.; June 29, 2008 9:17 PM
jean said...: Leah,
I am supporting Obama.
Not lightly.
Now come on, come on,
You broke the rule.
You let him get to you.
Admit it:); June 29, 2008 9:28 PM
stopOBAMAnow said...: "You bash McCain about saying Carter was a lousy president but then you Bash Bill Clinton who,whether you like it or not,
will go down in history as one of the BEST economic presidents."

Amen....Said well.

------------------------

To Some BHO lovers:

As some of you are Clinton haters, there are PUMA to balance you out.

You go out of the way to bash Bill and Hillary,, then when caught you turn around and say "No I didn't bash, I didn't mean to bash", No.. it is an old History.blah...blah" Just stand up and say, "Yes, I don't like them, I will trash them; I am a BHO lover, period".

A King Maker is one who can bring lots of people and power into play so that a person of his/her choice is elected or crowned. Yes, Bill Clinton has that influence.

Remember, Hillary got more than 18 million votes, and BHO got less than 18 million votes - they both were very very close, a tie. Finally, the tie was broken by the back room deals of RBC/SDs. PUMAs feel the Nomination was stolen.
They have a point.

Bill Clinton CAN make a difference, a very positive difference.

Personally, I want the Clintons to just write a very emotional Book on the Nomination Process and get it published 3 weeks before the Election. They CAN help or CAN hurt BHO very very much (in the process they can make 30 million dollars, minimum!)

That's what King Makers do.

Stay tuned.; June 29, 2008 9:44 PM
stopOBAMAnow said...: Newsweek (June 30, 2008 p 28):

"Mr. Obama's Washington: He wants to change the culture there. But it's hard to fix a place you've never really known"

Likewise, he cannot be elected because lots of people in the American heartland don't know him.
Is he an American or what? A lot of people wonder.

But, the massaged Company sponsored polls don't capture that thread of sentiment in the heartland.

He is a novice to the National Politics.

His agenda of Income/Wealth Redistribution cannot get the support of most of American voters, period.

Stay tuned.; June 29, 2008 9:52 PM
Karen Anne said...: With the discussion of Bill Clinton in here, I assumed someone posted the UK Telegraph article, but I can't see that, so here are excerpts below.

Personally, I hope Obama does not see Bill Clinton, I can't imagine it would be anything but a giant mess, given Bill Clinton's attitude as portrayed below.

As an Obama supporter in the midst of the primary mess, I kind of enjoyed the Vanity Fair article without taking it too seriously, but now I think they were perhaps right about Bill Clinton's mental state being impaired, whether by his health problems or whatever.

I am really concerned that if Bill Clinton melts down in public, and he is already semi-public with this Obama can't win crap, that he will do more damage. Better he just stays off the scene. I also don;t want Obama to look like he's putting up with crap.

(JFK had class. He had infinitely better taste in women. And he didn't sell American workers down the drain to corporations.)

Here's the Telegraph excerpts, link to article below:

"One person told me that Bill said Obama would have to quote kiss my ass close quote, if he wants his support.

"You can't talk like that about Obama - he's the nominee of your party, not some house boy you can order around.

...he is telling people he doesn't believe Obama can win round voting groups, especially working-class whites, in the swing states," the strategist said....

Joe Klein, the author of Primary Colours, a fictionalised account of Mr Clinton's 1992 election, who has known the former president for 20 years, said he also heard that he was "very, very bitter", from people who have spoken with him.

"It's time for him to get over it or go off and do his charitable work. He knows the rules of the road. What's going on now is kind of strange. I think his behaviour is really, really shocking."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/uselection2008/barackobama/2211812/Bill-Clinton-says-Barack-Obama-must-'kiss-my-ass'-for-his-support.html; June 29, 2008 9:53 PM
Vicki in Seattle said...: ss: aw, cr*p. not that I haven't been expecting this sort of saber-rattling, but still.; June 29, 2008 9:59 PM
jean said...: JFK had the secret service cleaning up after his messes.
He had women everywhere and it was accepted.
Jackie accepted it.
To the lenghthes they went noone knows today.
You could of raped your secretary and gotten her pregnent and still gotten away with it if you had power. No DNA testing.
It was a different time.
And you are listening to a second or third party of someone who heard like a enquirer rag.
Do you really think he forced HER They had sex and I really don't care.
We have a 50% divorce rate and the fooling around factor is just stupid.
No, I am not a bitter woman.
19 years, 1st marriage, and happy.
Everyone around me is getting divorced. It is really weird.

Unity.
Nice example.
So many stones and so many perfect people.
This is the real world.; June 29, 2008 10:11 PM
suzihussein22 said...: vicki in seattle-I've heard the saber rattling too, but this has a tone that goes beyond cowboy tactics.; June 29, 2008 10:14 PM
jean said...: Have a nice day.
I support Obama.
You give me a reason not to.
Disrespect and you think he is untouchable.
Absolutes.
Have you figured out Obama doesn't do that.
Slow learners.; June 29, 2008 10:36 PM
suzihussein22 said...: Duh. It would be tempting to call him Chicken Little-The Sky is Falling!-

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/06/29/ftn/main4217516.shtml; June 29, 2008 10:37 PM
stopOBAMAnow said...: "(JFK had class. He had infinitely better taste in women. And he didn't sell American workers down the drain to corporations.)"

Are you talking about sharing a Holywood blond (MM) with his own brother, another Mafia Boss and himself? Was that a Classic or what? Then, his brother's people poisoned her to death! Was that a thriller, or What?

Corporations have been here for the past 200 years. Bill Clinton did not start any Corporation!

Yes, he supported Globalization. Yes, he supported NAFTA. On balance both ARE beneficial to most people in America. Yes, some need to be retrained and retooled.

You cannot be an Isolationist in this time of Global Age. Ask BHO. He has flip-flopped on NAFTA already.

The Queen of Liberal Ideology, Ari Huffington is already in pain that her idol Barack is moving to the Center in order to get elected!

Stay tuned.; June 29, 2008 10:37 PM
stopOBAMAnow said...: "The fact is that Senator Obama is a strong, intelligent, and capable person in his own right."

Maybe, maybe NOT.

As a strong, intelligent US Senator, how many Bills did he pass going against the will of his Party for the larger good of People?

Yes, he was one of a dozen people who authored an Ethics Bill: The essence of it all is this - the Lobbyists are prohibited to SIT and talk with the Legislators, but are allowed to STAND and talk with them! What an achievement in the past 3.5 years for a strong, intelligent US Senator! Mind boggling, in deed.

In IL, he worked very hard to protect the welfare of all the Villains of the Society, but none for the Victims of Crimes!

Stay tuned.; June 29, 2008 10:50 PM
stopOBAMAnow said...: "Do you think Bill played a significant role in the economy, or was it just better while he was in the WH?"

Many achievements happened because HE made them happen:

1. He said "the Era of Big Govt is over." He reduced the waste, shrunk the size of the Govt. He worked very hard to balance the budget, a miracle in such a huge Governmental Bureaucracy.

2. He effected Welfare Reform.

3. He created 22 million jobs
and a roaring economy at a rate of 3.75% a year.

4. The dollar was very high

5. Brand America was reigning supreme all over the world.

6. That was the Golden Era in modern American History.

Anything that happened on his watch was because of HIM.

(Yes, because he WAS hard on some fringe groups in order to do larger good to America he had anti-Clinton renegades in the Party. Because he was "Triangulating" and kept the FAR LEFT liberals at arms length! They ganged together to take revenge on his wife in 2008!!)

Like, 9/11 Disaster, happened because of Dubya's criminal negligence.

Iran Israel Contra Money Laundering Scheme happened because Reagan planned it that way.

Beirut Massacre of nearly 300 GIs happened because of the criminal negligence of Reagan.

So on and so forth.

Stay tuned.; June 29, 2008 11:07 PM
apissedant said...: Jean!
First off, never blame a candidate for his/her supporters, because you end up taking out anger on the wrong person. Second, almost all of us were originally, and are still today Obama supporters. Almost all of those people have been very cordial with you. Do not let an idiot like stop come in, stir up tension, and destroy the good relations we've all worked so hard to build on this website. Be the bigger person and forgive those that trespass against you, or those you think trespass against you... either way. It is irrelevant who is right and who is wrong.; June 29, 2008 11:14 PM
apissedant said...: Oh my GOD!!!! I'm watching 30 Days. I don't know why I watch this show, because it always either pisses me off or depresses me. Normally the end ends up making up for it, but most the time I just want to fast forward through the bigotry to the happy ending.; June 29, 2008 11:19 PM
stopOBAMAnow said...: One more thing on Kennedys:

Now it seems Carolyne K S is actively campaigning for BHO.

Do you know how Kennedys got filthy rich:

Carolyn's Grandpa was a consummate Inside Trader in Wall Street.

FDR appointed him to clean up the mess after the collapse of the Wall Street in 1929-30! Little did he know that only Inside Traders like Joe Kennedy created the meltdown in the first place!

After Joe Kennedy, Kennedy boys did not earn any big money - but using family's enormous wealth they bought power left and right.

John K was elected with the narrowest of margin, that too with the help of Johnson. He is revered so much because he was MURDERED in office, so young.

Not for his achievements in Office, mind you.

I like him and his brother Bobby. But I don't adore them. They were not adorable personalities, IMO.

Stay tuned.; June 29, 2008 11:20 PM
stopOBAMAnow said...: "Do not let an idiot like stop come in, stir up tension, and destroy the good relations we've all worked so hard to build on this website."
==============
Is this NOT an unnecessary roughness?

Shame on you, guys!!

I just gave you the reasons why I called Bill Clinton a "King Maker".

For that, what do I get back?

Think hard before you call names!; June 29, 2008 11:26 PM
jean said...: apissedant,
Is this the chick flick or the 30days demon flick.
jean; June 29, 2008 11:27 PM
apissedant said...: Jean,
Neither, the liberal TV show. Although I do own both the chick flick and the zombie flick. I own too many chick flicks for a straight man. But I refuse to watch Sex and the City, so I'm ok.; June 29, 2008 11:31 PM
apissedant said...: The check flick and the movie are called 28 days though, just so you know. ;) That's how long alcohol or drug in treatment programs typically last.; June 29, 2008 11:33 PM
jean said...: ap.,
Your killing me LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Don't have that cable show on ours,
We only have 600 channels and not those options.
2 teenagers they would never get off the couch.
Thanks
jean; June 29, 2008 11:35 PM
suzihussein22 said...: apant-Do you know what women want or do you know how to lose a guy in 10 days? Do you have sliding doors or was there a hitch with the hinges? Just wondering. It's not like you're miss congeniality. Since you're close to the beach, have you ever found a message in a bottle? I cried at the wedding but had too much fun at the holiday. I couldn't afford to take 30 days off from work though, much less 28 days. You mean that zombie wasn't McCain? Sorry, that was too easy.; June 29, 2008 11:47 PM
jean said...: ap,
I have not seen either of them.
Don't have the time, work, kids and husband.
Husband just said he missed me.
He doesn't particularly like when I blog.
Simply he works a lot and we don't get enough time together.
This is the first time I have ever
done this.
Can't you tell.
Your personality really shows your ready for a kid, especially your movie collection:)
He really doesn't ask much, talk to you in a while.
jean; June 29, 2008 11:50 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Bill Clinton Says Obama Must 'Kiss My Ass' For His Support

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/uselection2008/barackobama/2211812/Bill-Clinton-says-Barack-Obama-must-%27kiss-my-ass%27-for-his-support.html

____________

If Bill Clinton is not going to show Senator Obama any respect then Obama should just ignore him!!!; June 30, 2008 12:02 AM
suzihussein22 said...: You show him, Ms. Shriver-

Both Frudenthal and Ritter are, naturally, Obama supporters. Not California governor Arnold Schwarzenegger, a Republican whose wife, Maria Shriver, a Democrat and member of the Kennedy family, is on Obama's vice-presidential selection committee.

While divulging nothing, Schwarzenegger acknowledged interesting dinner-table conversations in the gubernatorial household, and that his wife sometimes placed a life-size cardboard cutout of Obama next to the breakfast table, ready to greet him in the morning.

This is from the Swamp blog of the Chicago Tribune.; June 30, 2008 12:03 AM
suzihussein22 said...: 'night folks; June 30, 2008 12:06 AM
apissedant said...: soft,
lol, that was great. From that list, I have how to lose a guy in 10 days (which there is a funny story behind that one), the holiday, miss congeniality, hitch, and of course 28 days.
I also have several other Hugh Grant movies as well, Forget Paris, My Big Fat Greek Wedding... and you know, I'm done with that list. It just gets embarrassing. ;); June 30, 2008 12:06 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: ss - that is sooo funny. A cardboard cutout of Obama at the dinner table!!!

I would love to be a fly on the wall of that house to hear the conversations that go on!!!

A week or so ago they had a photo on HuffPost of the front of the gate at the Gov. mansion in Calf. and both signs for Obama and McCain where taped to the bricks of the gate!

I love lively dinner conversations and I am sure the ones at Maria's table are awesome.

p.s. I loved the fact that Arnold threw McCain under the bus on the off-shore drilling issue.; June 30, 2008 12:08 AM
apissedant said...: Then you get into the cartoon and claymation collection, with two Wallace and Grommit DVDs, Chicken Run, Shrek 1 and 2, and two Veggietales movies. Basically, I have no shame, I watch CSpan, children's movies, chick flicks, and anything else I find interesting at any given moment, regardless of the ridicule I may catch later for it.; June 30, 2008 12:10 AM
apissedant said...: Night soft! Sleep well!; June 30, 2008 12:12 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Hey everyone just thought I would drop by and say hello.

Read a few of the post and I happen to agree with Jean. There are a few people on this blog that had seem to think that Bill CLinton is a has been and needs to go away with Hillary and sit in a rocker waiting to die.

That is NOT going to happen she will be back. As far as Obama he can do well with Bill support experience. Yes Obama is smart but Bill has been there and done that. As far as someone saying Obama will have to kiss his ass that is such BS.

Someone said that Bill's illness has effected him mentally that is some more BS. He's just as smart as ever.

To all Obama people he is a smart man no doubt about it but he could use some more experience. Will he be able to get that before Nov. NO. So the next best thing is having someone there that does have it. Jean; June 30, 2008 12:16 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Obama's Plan To Win In The South

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/30/us/politics/30south.html?_r=1&adxnnl=1&oref=slogin&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss&pagewanted=all&adxnnlx=1214799346-ayyy2tMWMptX/YoXIGtduQ; June 30, 2008 12:18 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: As far as Bill Clinton's 'kiss my a$$' comment:

from the Telegraph - quote:

Bill Clinton is so bitter about Barack Obama's victory over his wife Hillary that he has told friends the Democratic nominee will have to beg for his wholehearted support.

Mr Obama is expected to speak to Mr Clinton for the first time since he won the nomination in the next few days, but campaign insiders say that the former president's future campaign role is a "sticking point" in peace talks with Mrs Clinton's aides.

The Telegraph has learned that the former president's rage is still so great that even loyal allies are shocked by his patronising attitude to Mr Obama, and believe that he risks damaging his own reputation by his intransigence.

A senior Democrat who worked for Mr Clinton has revealed that he recently told friends Mr Obama could "kiss my ass" in return for his support.

----

You might think is it BS but apparently HE said it!; June 30, 2008 12:23 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Like I said earlier, it would probably be better for Bill Clinton to go back to work on his Foundation projects. And Obama can get by just fine with the other supporters that truly want to support him in this race.

The Obama campaign has a rule of 'No Drama' and they won't get that if Bill is in the picture.

This is no offensive to Bill Clinton it is just that I want to see Senator Obama get as far ahead in the race as he can - without 'drama'.

This is OBAMA's year and he is the one that needs to be in the spotlight - and shine ;)

Obama/Sebelius '08; June 30, 2008 12:27 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Leah according to someone else. So it might be true but it might not.My mother always said never believe anything you hear and only half of what you see. jean; June 30, 2008 12:28 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Aunt Jean-

ss said: Maria Shriver, a Democrat and member of the Kennedy family, is on Obama's vice-presidential selection committee."

NO ONE said that Obama was thinking of Maria as VP.

Also, I am not so sure she is even on the committee. It is Caroline Kennedy that is on the VP vetting committee.

There is no need to be using cuss words.; June 30, 2008 12:30 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Leah I can relate to this: This is OBAMA's year and he is the one that needs to be in the spotlight - and shine ;) Jean; June 30, 2008 12:30 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: June 29, 2008

Rasmussen: McCain Has Trouble in Arizona

A new Rasmussen Reports poll in Arizona shows Sen. John McCain struggling in his home state. While he still leads Sen. Barack Obama, 49% to 40%, that's down from a 20 point lead in April.

.; June 30, 2008 12:37 AM
Mike in Maryland said...: Methinks that a lot of people are too simplistically equating age with experience with ability to govern.

If Senator Obama, at age 47 years, five months and 16 days on January 20, 2009 would be 'too young' to be President, then:

Was John F. Kennedy, at age 44 when inaugurated, too young?

Was Thomas Jefferson, at age 33 when he wrote the Declaration of Independence, too young?

Was George Washington, at age 43 when he was appointed to command the Continental Army, too young?

Was James Madison, at age 37 when he wrote a significant portion of the Constitution, too young?

Was Christopher Columbus, at age 47 when he convinced an absolute monarch to fund his voyage of discovery with no guarantee of success, too young?

Was Theodore Roosevelt, at age 41 when sworn in as President, too young to be an effective trust-buster and conservationist? Was he too young at age 46 to break all precedents by being the very first President to travel beyond the borders of the US?

Was Alexander Hamilton, at age 44 (or maybe 42) when appointed as the first Secretary of the Treasury, too young? Was he too young to call for the Constitutional Convention two year earlier? Was he too young to then help write the Federalist Papers? Was he too young, in his early to mid-twenties, to be an aide-de-camp to General Washington during the American Revolution? To command three battalions at the Siege of Yorktown when he was barely 30? And lest we forget, he admitted to being born out of wedlock.

Was William Jefferson Clinton, at 46 years, 5 months and 1 day when he took the oath of office as President of the United States, too young? Senator Obama will be 47 on August 4, 2008, so he wouldn't displace Teddy Roosevelt, John Kennedy or Bill Clinton as the three youngest Presidents when they took the oath of office.

Age does NOT equate to experience. And experience does not equate to ability to govern.

Mike; June 30, 2008 1:18 AM
apissedant said...: Very good post MikeMD. Agreed. Wisdom and age are not synonymous with one another. Much wisdom can be gained with age, but it isn't automatic, and if 47 is now too young to have a minimum amount of life experience, well then we have become dumber as a society. Our founding fathers decided on 35 after all.; June 30, 2008 1:34 AM
Aunt Jean said...: If you two are talking about what I said about experience well what i was talking about has nothing to do with age. I was not referring to age experience. But I totally disagree most people not all that's true does aquire experience with age and lives hardships.Without age or been there done that how can you know what it's about by reading about it doubtful Jean; June 30, 2008 1:51 AM
Aunt Jean said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; June 30, 2008 1:56 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Besides no offence people even when I was a teenager were a lot more mature than they are now.I was supporting myself at 16 yrs old can you see a 16 yr old supporting themself now days NOOOO!!!.So referring to what someone did at an early age many moons ago is a moot point because of the maturity factor there is no comparing. Jean; June 30, 2008 1:58 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Aunt Jean-

It was not you, it was 'jean' earlier in the evening that brought up the age issue.; June 30, 2008 2:00 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Mike in Maryland-

THANK YOU for posting your post!

I was going to post something similar earlier but I was too lazy to go and look all the people and dates up ;); June 30, 2008 2:01 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Here's an old one that I used to post awhile back when people would bring up the age issue:

Great leaders of our time under the age of 50

John F. Kennedy was inaugurated when he was 43
Robert F. Kennedy was running for president when he was 43

Martin Luther King when he was assassinated was only 39

Senator Obama will be inaugurated January 2009 when he will be 47

Obama - the candidate with integrity, wisdom, compassion, intelligence, eloquence and grace.

VOTE OBAMA '08

(Now I am going to copy and save Mike in Maryland's great info ;); June 30, 2008 2:04 AM
Mike in Maryland said...: Leah Texas4Obama said...
Rasmussen: McCain Has Trouble in Arizona . . . he . . . leads Sen. Barack Obama, 49% to 40%

Interesting. The home state can't yet give him 50% support.

In his Senate races, he received the following support:
1986 - 60.6%
1992 - 55.82%
1998 - 68.74%
2004 - 76.74%

Looks like Senator McCain will be making a few appearances in the "home" state of Arizona, not just for the symbolism, but to actually campaign there to win some votes he would need to make sure he wins the state.

This is going to be ONE WEIRD campaign season.

Mike; June 30, 2008 2:05 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Leah you forot which you always do CLINTON!!!!!!!!!

I guess what really gets me the most is everyone on here except for a couple is always willing to believe everything they hear that is neg. about the Clintons. Jean; June 30, 2008 2:09 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Mike in Maryland-

I am getting a kick watching several electoral map projections --- many of the red states have been turning PINK and others have been turning into tossups. McCain is in deep doo doo! ;)

I am still worried that the republicans might vote in someone else other than McCain at their convention because if they look at the numbers they will know he can't win - then the game will change!

If they keep McCain then I believe Obama will win by a landslide.; June 30, 2008 2:14 AM
Aunt Jean said...: MIM Much wisdom can be gained with age, but it isn't automatic, and if 47 is now too young to have a minimum amount of life experience, well then we have become dumber as a society. Our founding fathers decided on 35 after all.

This has nothing to do with what I was talking about intelligence has nothing to do with maturity. Jean; June 30, 2008 2:14 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Red states are turning PINK more and more each day!

http://electoral-vote.com/

.; June 30, 2008 2:20 AM
apissedant said...: aunt jean,
I guarantee you that there are still 16 year olds raising themselves right now. There is also a big difference between being able to support oneself, and being able to run a country and manage a 3 trillion dollar budget and 10 trillion dollars in debt.

As far as maturity, is it mature to perpetually run around on your wife, or try to seduce married women? Is it mature to lose your temper in your workplace, or shoot a fellow founding father? "Maturity" is not a good word to use, it is vague, subjective, and not always as important as people attempt to make it sound. Nearly every founding father was suspected to have violated one of these moral clauses. Several have plenty of proof including love letters or witnesses that prove they did it. That was prior to the paparazi and the camera, just imagine how many didn't get caught.

Experience is VERY IMPORTANT. Experience does not just mean going through things, or progressing in age. It is about being given responsibility, persevering over adversity, and learning from the experiences.

Well Obama has over ten years of legislative experience, was a successful teacher, and was President of the Harvard Law Review. So check on taking responsibility.
Single mother, food stamps, black man raised during the sixties, making it through the very long primaries while still keeping his composure, so check on persevering over adversity.
Learning from mistakes and successes of himself and others has been clearly shown time and time again. As the only Presidential candidate to avoid the silly gas tax holiday, he showed ability to understand economics, and when to ignore the public for the public's best interest. There are a million other stories, and his two books that all prove that he has learned. So check, he has all three.

Wisdom does not automatically come with age! EVER! EVER! Experiences come from age, but learning from experience does not come from age. You are no smarter or more wise than me merely due to your age. You may be, but that isn't why. Hopefully you are smarter or more wise than you were 20 years ago, but that is not always the case.
There are plenty of 14 year old girls and boys with more maturity, common sense, intelligence, and just overall wisdom than plenty of 50 year old men or women.

To say that 47 is the old 35 is disturbing. Eventually you're going to have to have a hip replacement before we'll let you be President at that rate.; June 30, 2008 2:28 AM
Mike in Maryland said...: Leah said...
I am still worried that the republicans might vote in someone else other than McCain at their convention because if they look at the numbers they will know he can't win - then the game will change!

The problem the republicans have if they do that is who do they then nominate?

Huckabee? Too religious for many, and he would turn off many of the moderates.

Romney? He would cause LOTS of the fundamentalists to stay home.

Giuliani? Mr. noun, verb, 9-11? He would worry too many independents.

Ron Paul? Bwahahahaha!

Someone else? But who could unite all the disparate wings of that party? And in two months? Let alone the fund raising? And let us not forget, the problem of new message from a new candidate.

And if they DO change candidates in mid-stream, how do they convince the American voters that they didn't make a mistake in the primaries?

The Repigs DO have a problem, don't they?

Mike; June 30, 2008 2:33 AM
apissedant said...: The Supreme Court seems more important to have the experience and wisdom than does the the President. Sure, they are only 1 of 9, but think of this: They are 1/3 of our government. They are the final word on many issues. They currently serve an average of 26 years. None have ever been kicked out of office, EVER!
Yet the youngest supreme court justice was 32. The average in recent years is 53. No one even questioned Roberts about his age, and the main questions surrounding Thomas had nothing to do with his young age of 44 years. I also doubt anyone here would argue he has gained any wisdom over the course of his 17 years on the bench.; June 30, 2008 2:38 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Mike in Maryland -

Yes they do have a problem - and I AM LOVING IT! :); June 30, 2008 2:39 AM
apissedant said...: My new favorite quote, which I feel has been proven by plenty of people, *cough*GWB*cough*

"Age does not always bring wisdom. Sometimes age comes alone." -
-- Garrison Keillor; June 30, 2008 2:42 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: apissedant-

I believe that Obama has wisdom and the intelligence and those are the most important things.

Also he has a good solid foundation to build upon. Since he has a degree in International Relations and he has taught the U.S. Constitution in University, and he has been a civil rights attorney added to the fact that he has been a state senator and U.S. senator --- I think he is well rounded and up for the challenge of being our next President.; June 30, 2008 2:46 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: I love this Wesley Clark quote ....

from FoxNews:

When Schieffer noted Obama has not had wartime experiences, Clark said: “Well, I don’t think riding in a fighter plane and getting shot down is a qualification to be president.”

.; June 30, 2008 2:50 AM
apissedant said...: Leah,
Agreed to the first one.

And very cute to the second one.; June 30, 2008 3:01 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: And now a moment to remember the casualties of the war...

U.S. MILITARY DEATHS(IRAQ): 4113
U.S. MILITARY WOUNDED(IRAQ): 30333
IRAQI CIVILIAN DEATHS: 151000
'EXCESS' IRAQI DEATHS: 655000

NO McCain and NO Bush policies!

Goodnight to everyone and God Help Us.; June 30, 2008 3:05 AM
apissedant said...: Maybe if McCain had progressed through the ranks. Being unable to make it up the ladder, and then claiming to be a military expert is bad. Carter never claimed to be a military expert. Kerry at least commanded a boat with people on it. McCain was in charge of a machine, which doesn't equate well to people.

I respect pilots, and I respect McCain's sacrifice for our nation, but he is not a military expert. Neither is Webb, and I'm tired of him acting like one too. Wesley Clark and Colin Powell are military experts. Anyone that served for less than 15 years, or that never made it to the ranks of Admiral or General, is not an expert. Those people are veterans, not experts.

He is an expert on torture, but I'm inclined to believe his assertion on those over the past 30 years, not the new one he has acquired after coming down with the disease of powerlust.; June 30, 2008 3:07 AM
apissedant said...: Goodnight Leah! Sleep well!; June 30, 2008 3:08 AM
Aunt Jean said...: apissedant

And I guarantee there are very very few 16 year olds that have that responsible. As for as Obama resume I'm sorry but I don't believe it to be that impressive. I'm not saying that he hasn't been responsible but it not that great!. As far as his single mother being on food stamps so what she was on them for a very short while. He went to an elite school. Don't get me wrong his resume is impressive it's just not as impressive as everyone makes it to be.

I also agree with you that age doesn't bring maturity that is why I said lives hardships. Just because [I think it's wrong] a person is a cheater doesn't make them not mature enough to make sound decisions in business. Even though actions speaks louder than words.
.

About the silly gas tax you might think it's silly but there are other grown men and woman that think it's a good idea so you are right because of who you are I don't think so.Don't get me wrong to me it doesn't solve anything so it's useless.But it doesn't make me more mature or anything else just because I disagree with something.

Having 3 books doesn't make you mature besides I've been told that they are some bad books. It tell about bigoty not on other peoples part.I've never read them so I really don't have a comment on them.; June 30, 2008 3:15 AM
apissedant said...: aunt jean,
You just did comment on them! Why did he go to an elite school? Who paid for it? He had more government experience than your Clinton, and came from a lower place in life, showing more hardships that he had to overcome.

What hardships did Thomas Jefferson, John Adams, George Washington, James Madison, or James Monroe overcome? None of these men were born poor, in fact most were born rich. Jefferson never worked a blue collar job a day in his life, yet had the audacity to call himself a farmer, one of the people, and call Adams an elitist. Not much has changed in 220 years. Not nearly as much as you think.

"As a teenager, he scooped ice cream at Baskins-Robbins"

That must how he paid for Columbia and Harvard, or his parents paid for it and he just did that for fun? Or maybe he is ridiculously smart, the school realized, and gave him scholarships and loans.

Why does going to a great school make someone rich or elitist? Why can't it just make them smart? He didn't get in because his father went there. Someone from my High School went to Yale, does that make him, or my neighborhood wealthy? No, it means he was a great student and even better football player, and they gave him a full ride.

Don't confuse going to a good school with having money or not having to triumph over adversity.; June 30, 2008 3:34 AM
apissedant said...: from LA Times

But the Illinois Democrat began his undergraduate education at Occidental, and the 1,825-student liberal arts college in the Eagle Rock neighborhood of Los Angeles isn’t shy about claiming him as an alumnus for his two years there (1979-81) on full scholarship. Perhaps, some think, it’s where his political and oratory skills were nurtured.; June 30, 2008 3:40 AM
apissedant said...: Oh, and as to the gas tax thing, people that liked the idea were either immature, ignorant, dumb, or a combination of them. My initial belief was that it was stupid. Several weeks later, every major economist came out and said it was stupid, for the same reasons I thought. I don't use me as the reference to why it was a bad idea and people were ignorant for supporting it, I use the actual experts. That is why our public education pays so much to school these people, so they can later be experts and benefit our society.

Taking a dime now that costs you a dollar in a week is the definition of immaturity. If you watch specials on emotional quotients, that is how they test children. They offer them one piece of candy now, or five pieces of candy if they are able to wait 40 minutes until the person returns. Those that wait are considered to have higher EQs, those that don't are considered to have lower EQs.

The gas tax is definitely a dime now that costs a dollar later. Besides the debt issue, it was proven that it would have little to no effect on prices. The government would lose billions of dollars, and the average consumer might save 5 or 10 dollars. We would eventually have to pay back the billions of dollars, and it may slow highway and road construction, causing further traffic difficulties and more money spent. Immature.; June 30, 2008 4:23 AM
Aunt Jean said...: apissedant

As far as Obama having more government experience than my Clinton in the first place that's bullshit!. Clinton has been a senator since 2000. Obama has only been one since 2004. Before that between 96-2004 he was a lobbiest. I don't think that even comes close to what Hillary has done in the political field. Jean; June 30, 2008 4:34 AM
Aunt Jean said...: One more thing Obama came from a middle class family so did Hillary.; June 30, 2008 4:37 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Turns out Obama did vote for such a gas tax holiday back in 2001, when he was a member of the Illinois legislature, but both he and the consumers in Illinois were disillusioned by the result, which proved all but meaningless -- a three percent savings for some consumers.; June 30, 2008 4:42 AM
apissedant said...: Obama was never a lobbiest. He was a state senator. I was also talking about the first Clinton, Governor Clinton. He has almost as much experience in elected government roles as President Clint had. I will list below the experience of all three in actual offices. Being the spouse or son of an elected official does not count.

Bill Clinton
AG of Arkansas 77-79
Governor 79-81, 83-92
TOTAL: 14 years

Hillary Clinton
Senator 2001-2008
Total: 8 years

Barack Obama
state Senator 1997-2004
Senator 2005-2008
Total: 12 years; June 30, 2008 4:46 AM
apissedant said...: Aunt Jean,
Why you're defending Clinton I don't know. I in no way meant to attack Clinton, but defend Obama. There is a difference. I have currently just used Clinton as a method to defend Clinton, because you hold her in high regard. Clinton also earned her great stature, despite relatively humble backgrounds.

I would remind you that middle class in a rather broad area. Food stamps, single mother, shipped off to live with grandparents... that's pretty far on the low end.; June 30, 2008 4:51 AM
Mike in Maryland said...: June 30, 2008 4:34 AM
Aunt Jean said...
Before that between 96-2004 [Obama] was a lobbiest.

Then eight minutes later:

June 30, 2008 4:42 AM
Aunt Jean said...
Turns out Obama did vote for such a gas tax holiday back in 2001, when he was a member of the Illinois legislature

Aunt Jean,

Do you pay any attention to what you write (or is it things you copy from some uncited source)?

Or do you think that a state legislator is a lobbyist?

Mike; June 30, 2008 4:58 AM
apissedant said...: Mike in Md,
Good morning, what are you doing up so early?; June 30, 2008 5:02 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Hillary Clinton
Senator 2001-2008 [2000-2008]
Total: 8 years

Barack Obama
state Senator 1997-2004
Senator 2005-2008
Total: 12 years 11years

Obama has only been a us senator for 3 years.

Hillary was not only the President of the US wife she was first lady of ark. for 11 years. I do believe that gives her a lot more clot and experience in the political field. Jean; June 30, 2008 5:06 AM
Aunt Jean said...: You act like obama has a pauper life and he didn't.He wanted to live in Hawaii when he was 14 to go to school. Don't think he did to bad for a poor person. Jean; June 30, 2008 5:10 AM
Aunt Jean said...: By the way I went to this site and it said that Obama was a lobbiest.; June 30, 2008 5:11 AM
apissedant said...: aunt jean,
Again, the spouse or child of an elected official does not count as experience as an elected official. Otherwise George W. Bush would have way more experience, and maybe wouldn't suck so bad.

As to the years, he has been a Senator for 3 1/2 years, and it will be exactly 4 on the day he swears into office. Also, Clinton did not become Senator in 2000. She was elected in 2000, and swore in in 2001. That is how our nation has worked for some 220 years. It is why Obama's says 2005 and not 2004. It is why Clinton was President from 1993-2001, and it is why George Bush will sadly be President until 2009.; June 30, 2008 5:11 AM
apissedant said...: aunt jean said,
I also agree with you that age doesn't bring maturity that is why I said lives hardships.

You mentioned that he went to an elite school and he was middle class. I am not trying to paint him to be a pauper, I'm trying to change your impression to a more realistic impression.

I was middle class. I had two working parents and two older sisters. All of us went to college. We were never on any form of government aid. We ate Pizza Hut, Little Caesars, and went on vacation to Florida and Canada. We went on class trips and had our own musical instruments. Money was tight sometimes, but we always had what we needed, and we never needed assistance from anyone else.

His grandparents had to raise him, they had to have food stamps, he had no father figure in his life. These are not middle class lifestyles, and definitely not elite. Especially for the time in which he grew up.; June 30, 2008 5:22 AM
apissedant said...: aunt jean,
Don't believe everything you read either. You complained about Obama people doing that with Clinton earlier. I take everything I hear second hand with a grain of salt. I don't even talk about McCain calling his wife a c*** because it was an unsubstantiated report by a reporter who refused to reveal his sources. Same with the Vanity Fair crap on Clinton, and tons of reports on Obama.; June 30, 2008 5:24 AM
Aunt Jean said...: apissedant

no I don't think a child gets experience from the parent being in office but YES the spouse does more so the presidents wife or husband.; June 30, 2008 5:30 AM
apissedant said...: Well I would disagree with that assertion.

George W. Bush was 34 when his father became VP, and 46 when he left the WH. That isn't a child, that is an adult, and you yourself said that a parent educates the child, so shouldn't a Presidential education be experience by the same right as spousal education?

I remind you that George W. Bush also claimed to have military experience through his dad. This sad little argument about vicarious experience has been used before, by someone that neither you nor I respect. Do you really want to use the same argument as George W. Bush?; June 30, 2008 5:36 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Oh by the way Obama's mother or grandparents was never on foodstamps. Couldn't get them in Hawaii when he was a young teen. Also his grandmother was the president of a bank they were upper middle class. Jean; June 30, 2008 5:37 AM
apissedant said...: I can also tell you that I will teach my child way more than I will ever teach my wife about my chosen field. My wife doesn't want to know, doesn't like it, and feels insecure if I bring it up. She isn't planning to take Chemistry or work with electronics or nuclear reactors, so she doesn't see the point. My child won't get that choice, he/she will learn from me until they're 18, and then they'll have the choice of tuning me out or not. Hopefully not, but we'll see. I would rather not be a John Adamsesque type of father.; June 30, 2008 5:39 AM
Aunt Jean said...: In the first place George Jr wasn't a child when George Sr. was in office.; June 30, 2008 5:39 AM
Mike in Maryland said...: Aunt Jean said...
By the way I went to this site and it said that Obama was a lobbiest.

And what site was it that you went to that said Senator Obama was a lobbyist?

Since you apparently copied and pasted the information (the word is spelled 'lobbyist' not 'lobbiest'), it must not have been a site that most people would cite as authoritative, as witnessed by the misspelled word.

A major clue to the legitimacy of a site is whether the spelling is correct or not. Another clue is whether it is a news site or not - if it's opinion, then there's a lessor probability that the site is a legitimate news source, and/or a site with factual information.

Not all sites, legitimate or not, are factual. The New York Times recently had an Op-Ed piece by a person who gave totally incorrect information about the Muslim faith. The information was corrected when the Times went to several Muslim scholars and teachers. That is why anyone doing research goes to SEVERAL sites to confirm information. Trusting a single site is like trusting George W. Bush when he says the sky is blue, or I-Rak has noo-cu-lar weapons.

AP - I'm about ready to go to bed, not up early. One of the advantages of being retired - you can very easily set your hours, or stay up as long as you want or need. VBG

Mike; June 30, 2008 5:41 AM
Aunt Jean said...: both clintons were in the same field so that wouldn't apply. Jean; June 30, 2008 5:41 AM
Aunt Jean said...: MIM if George Bush said the sky is blue I would have to go look myself LOLrimbg; June 30, 2008 5:43 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Well folks I'm gone for now I've got to get up in a couple of hours.

I do want to make a quick note I was in no way trying to put Obama down I do think he is a very smart has done a lot in his life. Jean; June 30, 2008 5:49 AM
apissedant said...: Sorry, not food stamps, welfare. That is what I meant. As someone with little to no interaction between the two, and that did not live in the 60's, I don't know what qualifies you for one and not the other, or how the plans work. I know they don't pay that much, but that is about it.

Have you read about his time in Indonesia, with beggars coming to their door and asking for change on a regular basis? Have you ever had starving people knock on your door and asked for money? Has it happened multiple times? Twice in a day? That doesn't sound upper middle to me.

She was not a bank President, she was a VP of the bank.; June 30, 2008 5:50 AM
apissedant said...: The basic details that Obama provides about his family are correct. His books and various news reports confirm that Obama was raised in Hawaii by his mother and grandparents, who were transplants from Kansas. They weren't rich, though young Obama did attend an elite private school. Obama worked at least one job during college, a construction job that he mentions in "Dreams From My Father: A Story of Race and Inheritance," and he took out loans to pay for his undergraduate and law school education. After law school, Obama worked for church-based community action groups and tenants' rights organizations in poor Chicago neighborhoods.

Factcheck.org; June 30, 2008 5:51 AM
apissedant said...: On food stamps... I do remember reading an article a few weeks ago, and a woman with two children got less money in a month than I spend on groceries for myself. They were rationed to 1 gallon of milk a week for all three of them. Just so you know, that is 128 ounces, or 16 cups. That is 2/3s of a cup a day per person. The FDA recommends 3 servings of dairy a day.

Oh those welfare and food stamp queens... living high on the hog and taking advantage of our system.; June 30, 2008 6:03 AM
Karen Anne said...: ap/Aunt Jean,

Obama was also a scholarship student at that private school in Hawaii. His Mom and grandparents were not able to afford the tuition.

I can tell you plenty of VPs at banks are not wealthy. This is a step up from being a branch manager, which is one of those white collar jobs which looks impressive, but the pay, not so much. Not a coincidence, I think, that it is women who tend to have the branch manager jobs.

Aunt Jean, I can see you are upset about the discussion about Bill. What concerns me about these reports from multiple sources plus his obvious anger in his "one sentence" support statement is how it reflects on his judgment and how the Republicans will make hay with it if he goes public.

And I note that although you say second hand reports are not valid about the Clintons, you accept second hand reports about Obama, like the incorrect lobbyist report.

You also mention that you have been told Obama's books are bad. That sounds like
you have not read any of them. You can get them from any library, I am sure. If they don't have them, they can get them with inter-library loan.

I think Hillary is doing very well currently. If this keeps up, even though I have concerns about things like the Bosnia episode, etc. once we get far enough out that it looks like an unpressured decision, I would not be too unhappy if Obama picks her as VP.

I am worried about Bill in that case, however. I seriously am concerned that he is not doing well mentally. The heart trouble and operation he had often leads to some mental impairment, minor or otherwise due to oxygen loss. This bodes ill for both the party and Hillary.; June 30, 2008 7:43 AM
Vicki in Seattle said...: Apissedant? have food stamps changed? I got them for a few months during a low point in my life (financially). I wasn't limited to a set amount of any one food, like milk. But I did have to budget so that the available funds would last. As I recall, the way I did was to limit meats and pricier items, but there was plenty for three servings of milk a day, five servings a day of fruits/veggies, etc. Has the system changed to force certain foods?; June 30, 2008 9:50 AM
stopOBAMAnow said...: Hello There:

The Obama Propaganda Machine is working over-time. The fact is he is an inexperienced stranger to the National Politics. He has serious flaws in character, judgment and integrity.

Last night I listened to Bob Shrum (sp?) on C-SPAN who was the architect of total failure of Kennedy (Primary),Mondale, Dukakis and Kerry. He was describing how narrowly (?) his Clients lost their Elections.

Here is how I think Obama will lose this Election:

1. Millions of non-partisan Americans don't know who Obama is.
Many even ask whether he is an American, or What? His name is quite unfamiliar to many voters.

2. During the Debate, it will be very clear he is an AA candidate with just 3 years of experience in National Politics. He has NOT served in the Military, has NOT served in National Govt enough to know anything.

His policies ARE nothing but the failed policies of Carter. He represents the FAR LEFT wing of the Democratic Party which stands for Big Govt, Big Tax and Big Spending and Gay Rights more than anything else. His long association with Wright, Rezko, Ayers and Khalidi will throw serious suspicion as to his character, judgment and credibility as a National Leader, and the Commander-In-Chief.

3. His opponent John McCain is an experienced White male with many many years of experience in National Govt. He has complete Name Recognition. He served this country very well, served in the Military, was tortured and imprisoned for about 5 years, and has a son serving in Iraq. His entire family starting with his grandfather has served this country very very well. The grateful nation will always remember the sacrifices he and his family did to this country.

He is a moderate, a Maverick. He has bipartisan credentials in the Senate (McCain-Feingold) and has taken strong stand on Comprehensive Immigration Reform against serious odds. He is a man of character and integrity.

4. Maybe, the voters in the large cities will be impressed by the inexperience of a AA " the skinny guy with the funny name", but voters of suburbia and small town America will be wondering "How in the world this man got Nominated? The Democratic Party has gone nuts".

Then rest will be history. He cannot get even 251 EVs that Kerry got with 59 million popular votes.
The liberal MSM is spinning the stories to elect a liberal President by hook or crook.

Since Mar 7, McCain and Obama are very close in opinion polls, nearly a tie, in spite of vast liberal media bias for the AA candidate (gallup.com) and his BigMoneyMachine.
=============================
"Was William Jefferson Clinton, at 46 years, 5 months and 1 day when he took the oath of office as President of the United States, too young?"

It is not just the age, stupid. It's the experience. WJ Clinton was a Governor for nearly 11 years in AR before he entered the National Politics. Before that, he was the State AG.

Obama was a part time lecturer and part time legislator for 7 years in IL, and came to Washington just 3.5 y ago. He promised that he WILL not run for National Office in 2004, then he flip-flopped.

He may even flip-flop on Gay Issues in military, and many others very soon.

He is NOT a man of his words, so far.

He cannot be trusted as the Commander-In-Chief, says 80% of voters (gallup.com).

There is no comparison between WJ Clinton and the skinny Obama!

Stay tuned. See you in the evening.; June 30, 2008 10:55 AM
stopOBAMAnow said...: Some people say that Bill Clinton has become a different man after his heart surgery. Nonsense.

Here is a fact:

Obama has smoked nearly 70,000 cigarettes in his life starting age 19, in college.

Many suspect his brain is already half-dead because of extreme nicotine addiction. They say he cannot work for 3 h w/o a serious break; he gets nervous and very irritable after about 4 h of no nicotine gum/patch/shot.

Do you need such a nicotine addict in the White House, a hand on the Red Nuclear Button? No, No....o.; June 30, 2008 11:01 AM
Aunt Jean said...: This site that I went to said that his grandparents paid for him going to the private school. As far as the food stamp program it was not availible in Hawaii at that time. Jean; June 30, 2008 11:23 AM
apissedant said...: vicki,
No, she wasn't limited to a set amount of milk or anything, just a set budget. The problem was that the budget had not been rising at the same rate as the cost of food. This past year especially, the price has flown through the roof, and the food stamps issue have barely increased at all.; June 30, 2008 11:31 AM
Aunt Jean said...: I've known several people that has had surgery concerning their heart it has had no adverse reaction on their mental ability.I think the reason Bill did and said some of the things he did was te fact that the media showed not only Hillary but him so much disrespect. If I had been President and the media treated me or my wife like that it would totally piss me off too and I would probable blow a my cool too! How the media treated them was so uncalled for.There is news show that I will never watch again. What made it even worst is that he was a good President.Jean; June 30, 2008 12:04 PM
apissedant said...: karen,
agreed.; June 30, 2008 12:10 PM
apissedant said...: aunt jean,
It was at least welfare, everyone agrees on that. I agreed to that. Everything I read said scholarships and student loans paid for everything for him pretty much. No wealthy parents, no wealthy grandparents.; June 30, 2008 12:14 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Senator Obama was NEVER a heavy smoker. Obama's doctor has even said Obama has NO medical problems.

Now John McCain - that is another story!

JOHN McCAIN smoked OVER 2 packs of cigarettes for OVER 25 years. That comes to OVER 356,250+ cigarettes.

356,250+

Now everyone have a smoke and relax ;); June 30, 2008 1:02 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Anyone that thinks that Senator Obama was ever a lobbyist has not done their homework.

Obama was NEVER a lobbyist.; June 30, 2008 1:04 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Monday June 30, 2008

General Election

Obama vs. McCain

Gallup Tracking Obama +5

Rasmussen Tracking Obama +5

.; June 30, 2008 2:26 PM
Meg said...: I've been tracking the Realclearpolitics average for Obama vs. McCain since June 9. The average of 8 POLLS shows Obama ahead by 7.1.

Not a single poll shows a tie or McCain ahead.; June 30, 2008 2:47 PM
Beryl said...: Emma said:

"I've been tracking the Realclearpolitics average for Obama vs. McCain since June 9. The average of 8 POLLS shows Obama ahead by 7.1.

Not a single poll shows a tie or McCain ahead."

This why I didn't understand what was happening with the Gallup poll. I can understand Gallup being a little different but they didn't even show the double digit "bump" Obama had last week.; June 30, 2008 2:59 PM
JayW said...: Aunt Jean...

You said "Hillary was not only the President of the US wife she was first lady of ark. for 11 years. I do believe that gives her a lot more clot and experience in the political field."

____

Lying on your back and getting banged by a person in power (Bill) is not my definition of experience. Hell, she wasnt even good at that... he had to go find it elsewhere all the time.; June 30, 2008 3:07 PM
Meg said...: Beryl:

Of the 8 polls that make up the RCP average, one is the incredible Newsweek poll showing Obama at +15. There's another with +12 and the rest are around +5.

Even discounting the Newsweek poll, which many did, Obama is still ahead.

I'm not sure what you mean by the double digit bump.; June 30, 2008 3:07 PM
Beryl said...: The double digit bump was the >10% lead in several polls he realized after being declared as the Democratic candidate.; June 30, 2008 3:34 PM
Beryl said...: JayW

"Lying on your back and getting banged by a person in power (Bill) is not my definition of experience. Hell, she wasnt even good at that... he had to go find it elsewhere all the time."

While I do not agree that HRC's First Lady experience in the White House gives her a leg up over Obama's Senate (including STATE Senate) experience, I think you've under-valued it. She did have an opportunity to interact with country leaders and learned Presidential protocol. I'm quite certain Bill discussed things with her that would help her as well.

She also should have learned volumes from her failed attempts to get a health care bill passed in 8 years. There is a lot to be said for the art of negotiation and compromise. Great leaders like Ted Kennedy know that "my way or no way" is not effective.; June 30, 2008 3:50 PM
JayW said...: Beryl,

Your quote, "She also should have learned volumes from her failed attempts to get a health care bill passed in 8 years." is a true statement. But the key word is SHOULD. In my opinion, I dont think she did.

Looking at her health care proposal, there is NO WAY it will pass the house and the senate. I would be willing to bet my house on that. It is great politics to put it out there for consideration... but it just wont get passed. Has no shot.

Once you take that away from her, what does she really offer? Nothing.

Thank God she didn't win the nomination... that would have ensured another 4 years of Republicans in the white house.; June 30, 2008 4:10 PM
Karen Anne said...: JayW,

At this point, I don't think being disrespectful to Hillary is going to be productive in any terms but alienating her supporters.

It's one thing to make legitimate criticisms if there's some reason for them, but the type of language you used is offensive even to me, and I've supported Obama "from day one."

There are not a lot of giant differences between her current health care plan and Obama's except for hers forcing even the poorest people to pay premiums, while his leaves open some other way to cover them.

You may think I'm being overly sensitive about your language, but us old women, Clinton or Obama supporters or whatever, were raised with different standards.; June 30, 2008 4:19 PM
JayW said...: Karen Anne,

First of all, I used no language that would be considered offensive. Perhaps the words that I used painted an offensive picture, but the language itself was very subdued. If you have a problem with the words I used I would suggest never watching TV or surfing the net as you are bound to hear or read worse... so, no apologies from me.

Second, I could care less about Hillary supporters. Really, I wouldn’t even walk across the street to piss on an HRC supporters head if their hair was on fire.

Obama will win the election regardless of the mindless people that follow HRC and her message of entitlement. Look at the polls. The HRC supporters that say they wont vote for Obama are already factored in... let them support another loser if they want to, who cares.

By the way. I do agree with you on there being very few differences between Obama's health care plan and HRC's health care plan. Obama's wont get passed either, it has no shot. But, Obama actually has other ideas and represents change. You take health care away from Hillary and you are left with NOTHING. Just an ex-first lady. And not a very good one at that.; June 30, 2008 4:34 PM
Beryl said...: Karen Anne posted:

"You may think I'm being overly sensitive about your language, but us old women, Clinton or Obama supporters or whatever, were raised with different standards."

I agree, Karen. I attempted to move what I perceived his intent toward a more meaningful dialog.

I think his intent, though atrociously stated, was to express that First Lady experience is not as valuable as some feel. I agree with that.

Similarly, I do not feel that POW experience does not, in isolation, qualify McCain to be POTUS. Many soldiers have been shot down and imprisoned and that experience does not mean they should hold the highest office in our country. We honor them in other ways.; June 30, 2008 4:57 PM
Meg said...: Beryl:

Tell that to Wes Clark !! The McCain camp is screaming over his comments. He said,

"I certainly honor his service as a prisoner of war. He was a hero to me and to hundreds of thousands and millions of others in the armed forces as a prisoner of war."

Then a few seconds later he said,

"Well, I don't think riding in a fighter plane and getting shot down is a qualification to be president."

So now he's dissing a former POW. Give me a break.

On another note, I have learned that some posters either do not realize they are using offensive language, or they know and don't care. The former is interested in clarification. The latter is not.; June 30, 2008 5:07 PM
Beryl said...: JayW,

"Obama's wont get passed either, it has no shot."

I agree that both of their HC plans are similar and do not think EITHER plan will pass -- as is. Our new Pres will need to appoint someone to negotiate and compromise to pass a HC plan. Otherwise, we will get NOTHING and all US citizens need and deserve affordable health care.; June 30, 2008 5:09 PM
JayW said...: Beryl,

Well said. The health care plans that have been proposed are purely political in nature. No chance of passing as is. It is just to get things going in a general direction.; June 30, 2008 5:15 PM
Beryl said...: Emma,
Actually, I think General Clark is one of the few people who have the right to make that statement.

There is a BIG difference between serving valiantly and successful command experience. You'd expect successful command experience to result in a different position on this war.

Wesley Clark was correct to point that out and Obama was correct to distance himself from any thing that disses McCain's military experience since he has none. However, on the war, Obama's judgment trumped McCain's experience. Therefore, experience didn't prevent the loss of lives from this deception-based war.; June 30, 2008 5:21 PM
JayW said...: I served in the military as a paratrooper.

I have a great deal of respect for McCain because he served our country... but that respect for serving (that should be given by EVERY American) does not automatically translate into experience necessary for being a good president. In fact, in McCain's case, I think his experiences actaully hurt his ability to think rationally.; June 30, 2008 5:40 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Emma -

In my opinion honoring a POW .. and thinking that riding in a fighter plane and getting shot down is NOT a qualification to be president are two separate things.

I think that McCain's being a POW has NOTHING to do with being qualified to be the U.S. President.

Gen. Clark was right to state the obvious.; June 30, 2008 5:41 PM
Meg said...: Personally I wonder if McCain's war experience has made him afraid of the world. He wants America to have a military presence in Iraq because it somehow protects our national security. I think this view of the world is based in fear and creates a more violent atmosphere.

He keeps saying that we will never surrender in Iraq. It's like leaving a place we never should have invaded is shameful. Well, the whole thing is shameful, in my opinion.

I look forward to NOT being the aggressors.; June 30, 2008 5:49 PM
JayW said...: Emma,

You said, "I look forward to NOT being the aggressors."

I totally agree. When Bill Clinton was in office, we became the beacon of hope for the world. We gave water purifying systems to Africa and participated in diplomacy with our adversaries.

Under Bush, we have taken the "Bully" approach to our foreign policy and the world has noticed. No one likes a bully. And America has suffered because of it.

I hope that Obama can heal many of the negative thoughts that the world has of us because of the last 8 years.

We are NOT more safe now then before Bush's terms. The world is out to get us... and rightfully so.; June 30, 2008 6:38 PM
apissedant said...: As to the silly, "vicarious experience" argument, let's honestly look at it through analogy.

Let's make President equal to doctor, lawyer, judge, or professor.

Let's make Senator or State Senator equal to paralegal, law clerk, nurse, or TA.

Would you go to a lawyer's wife before you would go to a paralegal for legal advice? How about a judge's husband vs. a law clerk? What about a doctor's spouse vs. a nurse? Lastly, a professor of ancient Greek civilization's wife, or a TA to the professor of ancient Greek civilization?

In no other profession does being married to a practitioner give the spouse any standing or authority at all, let alone MORE authority or standing than someone that was actually in that profession.

Why are some people still trying to extend such a misplaced concept to Hillary Clinton?

Obama was actually DOING THE JOB, while Clinton was married to someone doing the job. In that case, I take the professional over the spouse of the professional every single time. Without fail. I will never ask the spouse of a doctor to treat me before I ask a nurse. Jay's comments were offensive, but he is still right. I would appreciate it if he found a nicer way to frame his opinion, but I doubt that will happen.; June 30, 2008 6:40 PM
stopOBAMAnow said...: On Wesley Clark:

McCain supporters must be thankful to Clark. He puts the question of National Security and eligibility for being the Commander-in-Chief onto to the front burner.

On this McCain has been leading the Junior for a long long time (gallup.com).

Unfortunately, on patriotism Obama gets only 61% to 90% to McCain. Too bad.

I will NOT doubt BHO's patriotism, personally. He is a patriot, period.

Good job Wesley, Keep it up till Oct-Nov, 2008. Thanks for helping McCain. You have lots of nerve in undercutting Obama from inside the Camp!

On Dirty Words about Hillary and Bill from rabid radicals of BHO:

This proves the need for virulent PUMA around. Yes, they are there burning the Democratic Party down.

On the Polls:

My poll of polls still favor McCain by 51% to 48% for BHO and 1% for others. Gallup with a small n=1500 showed nearly a tie since Mar 2008. But AOL Straw poll with n=144K favors McCain with 62% to BHO's 38%. Nothing has really changed in lackluster performance by BHO.

This tells me McCain is NOT McSame/McBush.

But, BHO = Carter II, Big Govt Big Tax and Spend Far Left Liberal!

Stay tuned.

ps: On smoking, probably McCain = BHO. Both ex-smokers!!; June 30, 2008 6:45 PM
JayW said...: "Jay's comments were offensive, but he is still right."

That's why I get paid big money to be a consultant. I don't sugar coat it, but am right the vast majority of the time. Clients appreciate that. It does, however, rule me out for political positions.; June 30, 2008 6:47 PM
apissedant said...: Jay,
I completely agree, but take your own advice. Remember you catch more flies with honey, and the more people we have in our tent, the more likely we are to succeed. Being right doesn't always mean you win, look at 2000, 2004, and the recent supreme court decisions. Let's try to be both right and the victors. Let's extend what courteousy we can to make sure there are as many people on our side as possible. Some our a lost cause, such as Stop and Mike, insult them as much as you feel like. Those that are currently planning on voting in our direction, well I would hope you would not scare them off if possible. You may not like them, but they can still be a useful ally.; June 30, 2008 6:48 PM
Beryl said...: Even though I agree with want apiss stated, we must not discount the fact that HRC was not just a housewife who was married to a President. She was a practicing attorney who served on various boards and political committees. Therefore, her indirect interactions with policy-making and Presidential decisions helped to build her knowledge base.

That stated, First Lady experience, though valuable, does not compare to state Senate experience.; June 30, 2008 6:51 PM
apissedant said...: Jay,
Astute point. I am not a big fan of sugar coating either if you haven't noticed. I try my best because I want to help my candidate and not hurt him. You would be surprised how many people turn away from a candidate because of dislike for their supporters. I know at least one very smart, very politically active man that chose to be a delegate for Clinton because he was offended by Obama supporters. Last we spoke, he still held a grudge and disliked Obama. I found it irrational, but I still understood. Some, like the Jeans are a bit sensitive, but they're voting our way. They are on our side, so let's not piss 'em off and encourage them to change their vote, stay home, refuse to volunteer, and/or close their wallets.; June 30, 2008 6:52 PM
apissedant said...: beryl,
I can completely agree with that.; June 30, 2008 6:53 PM
Independent Voter said...: YIKES! See what happens when I leave for 24 hours. Just can't leave you guys alone for a second, can I? LOL!!!! JUST KIDDING!

On a brighter note.......how's bout them padres? UGH! THEY SUCK!!!!!!!; June 30, 2008 7:01 PM
stopOBAMAnow said...: On Hillary's experience etc:

Already voters have spoken: they gave her little over 18 million votes while they gave little LESS than 18 million votes.

Yes, BHO is the Nominee because the RBC/SDs decided it. That's the reason an active PUMA around.

Hillary got the MOST votes in any Primary EVER in our country's long history, period.

Let us not open the can of worms again.

It is a settled matter, IMO.

Stay tuned.; June 30, 2008 7:02 PM
stopOBAMAnow said...: read:

less than 18 million votes to BHO, the winner!; June 30, 2008 7:03 PM
Meg said...: Indy:

Welcome back!! We've been having some interesting discussions and we are, I believe, still ignoring STOP/YAM and his AOL polls.

I have completely gotten over Mike's (not Mike in Md.) direction to go cry in my beer if I find his language offensive.

Just a normal day here.; June 30, 2008 7:09 PM
stopOBAMAnow said...: Yamaka and other Houstonians:

I hear that Joe Horn who killed two intruders in his neighbor's property has been let go. Grand Jury decided NOT to press charge!

What say you all?

I thought Grand Jury should have at least indicted Horn on misdemeanor! Not on murder!!

This sets a serious precedent, IMO.; June 30, 2008 7:11 PM
jean said...: Indy,
yes they do suck.
Dang.
We have Allstars but no team.
We need some equilibrium.
Ap is tired of it.
I don't think he cares about the Padres.
Did have some laughs though.
After O,s decision on Move On.
As my motherinlaw would say, OH MY.
Did you finish your paper?
jean; June 30, 2008 7:30 PM
stopOBAMAnow said...: I am watching the Kudlow's show on CNBC:

1. Sara Palin should be the VP for McCain. A win-win for Republicans.

I agree. She is a very charismatic leader with clear ideas and articulation. An young energetic woman with McCain - a ticket made in heaven, IMO.

BHO must choose Wesley Clark for his treacherous undercutting of him as VP!lol

2. BHO is very bad for the 100 million small investors in US (most pension funds, the 401 K (b) participants).

Interesting.

Stay tuned.; June 30, 2008 7:31 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA '08; June 30, 2008 7:44 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA '08; June 30, 2008 7:44 PM
stopOBAMAnow said...: Rasmussen on CNCB's Kudlow today:

"American people want drill drill drill and increase the supply of oil and gas; we cannot wait for alternate energy - it will take time"

"This is a winning issue for McCain"

"Obama and Democrats are on the wrong side of most Americans on Oil/Gas prices"

Interesting.

McCain wants to have Tax Holiday, short term., and drill drill for the long term. A rational approach.

Stay tuned.; June 30, 2008 7:48 PM
Independent Voter said...: Thanks Emma! Ya I see the interesting *cough* dialogue *cough*.

Although I have read any of stop's garbage I see he is still posting. I can ONLY assume that it is a bunch of crap - as usual.

ss - YIKES about your husbands school schedule....20 units? I thought 18 was enough. Let him know that I definitely feel his pain.

The "abnormal" discussion yesterday, all I can say is WOW! Unreal. I guess African-Americans are "abnormal" because their genes carry a darker pigmentation than do the majority of Americans. I guess Asian Americans are "abnormal" since their genes are wired so as they are shorter than the majority of Americans (as well as genes that cause "slanted" eyes).

I'm not even going to touch the Bill Clinton issue.; June 30, 2008 7:51 PM
Independent Voter said...: good job leah; June 30, 2008 7:51 PM
Independent Voter said...: Jean, yes I did finish my paper, around midnight last night...... zzzzzz, I'm ready for a nap.

I have one more paper to do for my on-campus classes, YAY!!!!! It's due next monday. :); June 30, 2008 7:53 PM
Independent Voter said...: OOPS! again I really should proof my work.

"Although I haven't read any of stop's garbage I see he is still posting. I can ONLY assume that it is a bunch of crap - as usual."; June 30, 2008 7:54 PM
Independent Voter said...: What the hell is wrong with Chris Matthews? He really seems to be a reich-wing shill.; June 30, 2008 7:57 PM
stopOBAMAnow said...: This is my TWO CENTS on the GE:

1. Gas prices will keep going up.

2. McCain will ask for Tax Holiday, and ask for drill, drill for Oil and Gas in Offshore and Alaska.

3. Sara Palin will be his VP

4. They both will do very well in the Debates.

5. BHO will have Richardson/Sam Nunn/Wesley Clark as the VP. People will snore at them.

Blacks will go en mass to BHO, and the Whites will go to McCain. The racial rift will be stronger and wider, started by the Black Racism of AAs.

6. McCain/Palin will win with 350 EVs.

Cindy and John McCain will be in the Inaugural Ball.

PUMA will be laughing like there is no tomorrow. They get the last laugh.

Stay tuned.; June 30, 2008 8:07 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Open Thread Electoral Vote Contest

The closer the election is the easier to guess the winning number will be.
So we will have a cut off date for number submissions of July 13th 11:59pm Texas time.
Duplicate number guesses will be allowed since there are only so many combinations available.
A total of 270 EVs are needed for a clear cut win - 269 would go to the House for a vote.
The list reflects the number of EVs for Obama (vs. McCain).

Submissions so far:
stop0 - <251 (McCain 350+)
JayW - 269
Beryl - 280
Hippolytus - 289
Dilbuck - 290
softspoken22 - 298
Emma - 300
Richard - 304
jean - 311
Mike in Maryland - 312
tmess2 - 315
RobH - 317 (1)
apissedant - 317 (2)
Oregon Dem - 332
Leah - 345
Woodland Sprite - 360
Emit R Detsaw - 429
Independent voter - 538

Anyone that submits an early guess will be allowed to add (but not change) a second guess October 1st - 3rd. The early guess will be our main contest. The second guess will be considered a separate contest.; June 30, 2008 8:33 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Bravoooo Keith O!
He is reading the three pages of the McCain Flip Flops!

Obama '08; June 30, 2008 8:39 PM
Beryl said...: I'm totally in love with Keith O. He is also giving a special comment on FISA tonight.; June 30, 2008 8:56 PM
jean said...: Indy,
Highly suggest you get that paper done before July 4th weekend so that you canjREALLY let loose;)
I am really trying.
When individuals say that there is no way that the HC package will get passed it is really hard.
I am a business person.
If HRC didn't get it passed I would be Majorly pissed and I really do not have any space on this issue.
I would put her on the cross.
Figurtively speaking.
I expect results.
jean; June 30, 2008 9:02 PM
Independent Voter said...: jean,

I'll be working on the paper later tonight (I'm waiting for Bill to go to bed so I don't have any distractions). I'll be working on it the rest of the week so I don't have to take it with us to Palm Springs. :); June 30, 2008 9:13 PM
Independent Voter said...: Jean, as far as the Health care package, I have the feeling unless the Dems get an overwhelming majority in both chambers of Congress, it is not going to happen. This will be especially true if UGH I even hate the thought of it, McBush wins......slapping myself for even thinking it could happen.; June 30, 2008 9:16 PM
jean said...: Indy,
The president is a POLITICIAN who needs to negotiate to get what they want.
That is their job.
Part of my problem is that the old way will not be tolerated.
It is going to take some of that and more.
Obama has changed some stances on quite a few things.
That gives me hope.
jean; June 30, 2008 9:20 PM
Independent Voter said...: WOW, unbelievable Pentagon announces charges in USS Cole bombing

It took the Bush Administration 8 years to bring charges against this guy? Hmmmmmmmmm, it looks like the same efficiency that this administration has shown through its tenure.; June 30, 2008 9:21 PM
Beryl said...: Does anyone believe that General Clark should apologize to McCain for his statement?

I don't! I agree with what he said. We all honor McCain's sacrifice as we do everyone who serves but service in the military. However, McCain's service -- including being shot down and imprisoned -- does not qualify him to be President.

Why can't we be honest? Should anyone who was shot down and imprisoned be made our President?; June 30, 2008 9:28 PM
Independent Voter said...: beryl, I agree with you 100%. Nobody should apologize to McCain. Clark did NOT diss McBush. He was simply stating fact. Riding in a fighter jet and being shot down does NOT qualify one to be president.; June 30, 2008 9:30 PM
Mike in Maryland said...: And in a related Guantanamo case (this is the case of Chinese detainee Huzaifa Parhat that was decided last week by a three-judge panel of the U.S. Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit):

Part of the opinion that was released yesterday stated that tribunals and courts must be able to assess whether evidence is reliable before determining the fate of detainees.

From the Washington Post's article, and quoting from the opinion:

The judges were particularly concerned with government assertions that the evidence was reliable because it was repeated in separate documents and that officials would not have included the information if it were not dependable.

"Lewis Carroll notwithstanding, the fact the government has 'said it thrice' does not make an allegation true," wrote Judge Merrick B. Garland, quoting from Carroll's poem "The Hunting of the Snark."

I find it amazing that federal court judges feel they have to go to childrens stories to make sure the Shrub administration understands what the court is telling them.

Mike; June 30, 2008 9:35 PM
stopOBAMAnow said...: "judges feel they have to go to childrens stories"

-paragons of English language need not make such mistakes!!!!lol

-----------------------------

No, Wesley is a loyal friend and supporter of BHO.

He should not apologize to anybody! He said what he meant. Let people think whatever they think. Who gives rat's a-- about people's opinion? This is Campaign Season, anybody can say anything and get away with murder!

Let this get amplified over the July 4th Holiday.

Wesley, you did a heck of a job to Junior! Keep it up, buddy.

Stay tuned.; June 30, 2008 10:28 PM
Independent Voter said...: OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA '08

Ok I just HAD to do that to get rid of stops most recent post! :); June 30, 2008 11:06 PM
stopOBAMAnow said...: Politico has an interesting article that would send shivers along the spines of BHO and his supporters -

"Obama: Change Agent Goes Conventional" By KP Vogel.

During the Primary, Junior gave an impression that he is a post-partisan reform agent - an agent of Change. However, soon after the Primary, he has reverted back to "yet another politician from Chicago" - pragmatist who would do anything to win an Election.

He has flip-flopped on

NAFTA
DC Gun Control
FISA
Public Financing
Appointing Mondale/Kerry Inside the Beltway Jim Johnson for VP Search.
And so on and so forth.

The Queen of Liberal Ideology, Ari Huffington is restless that her idol Boy with charming grin is drifting into an "Ordinary Politician" - Oh, no... The Brand Obama is tarnished!

Gone, it's gone. Gone with the Wind.

Now, Wesley Clark has put his foot into his mouth.

Topic of July 4th Conversation:

1. Is McCain a War Hero, or not?
2. Is BHO an Ordinary Politician or not?

Interesting questions to ponder...

Stay tuned.; June 30, 2008 11:19 PM
Independent Voter said...: OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA '08; June 30, 2008 11:23 PM
Independent Voter said...: Here is the link in case anyone missed Obama's speech on Patriotism today.; June 30, 2008 11:36 PM
Independent Voter said...: Good evening Aunt Jean. How are you tonight? Don't let JayW get to you. Just ignore him if you can. :) How did your B-day date go?

Have you finally gotten rid of the rash?; June 30, 2008 11:51 PM
tmess2 said...: You know when I hear all this talk about drilling, I am reminded of a speech that the former Republican Chief Justice of the Missouri Supreme Court (also the former chief of staff to John Ashcroft) used to give.

It was about the good old days in the latter part of the 19th century. At that time, the primary source of light in the evening were those old fashioned lamps. They were primarily fueled by whale oil. Unfortunately, those involved in hunting whales had been rather successful in depleting that resource (If you kill them all, they can't make new whales) and it was getting harder and harder to find enough whales.

In those days of rising prices and concerns about supplies, community leaders and the top whalers met to decide how they could improve the supply of whale oil.

While the whaling community was trying to find a solution based on increasing the supply of whale oil, Thomas Alva Edison was researching a different way of providing light. As a result of his efforts, we don't talk about the supply of whale oil any more.

I think more people realize that we need to break our dependency on oil period than the Republicans believe is possible. Americans aren't as dumb as the oil industry and american car industry seem to think.; July 01, 2008 12:06 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Jayw you are so like a little boy you need to grow up. Hillary would have been better at being the President than Obama. Yes he is our choose so leave it at that. You are 33 act like it. You aren't even worthy enough to say her name you creep!!!!!!.Hillary is 100 times the woman you will be a man why because you are not a man you are trash. Jean; July 01, 2008 12:27 AM
Aunt Jean said...: For all you other people out there that think Hillary didn't make usefull the benefits being first lady is wrong considering she was into politics. Jean; July 01, 2008 12:28 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Also one more thing Hillary was not and I repeat not going to make people that couldn't afford insurance buy it . Jean; July 01, 2008 12:30 AM
stopOBAMAnow said...: Curiously, I picked up BHO's first book, Dreams from My Father from the Library.

The book is written in the fashion of the movie Syriana - the narrative jumps to different episodes w/o much of a proper introduction!

Here is the beginning of his search as a Black man: his father called himself as Barry, not Barack., and called his son as Barry. His mother and sister Maya called him as Barry. But, suddenly Junior gets the feeling it is inappropriate for others to call him as Barry. He preferred Barack the Black African name.

Now, this is the first summer in NY after getting transferred from Oxy to Columbia. You want to know why such a change towards being African Black?

Here is some thing on race p 124 last two sentences,

" The emotions between the races could never be pure; even love was tarnished by the desire to find in the other some element that was missing in ourselves.

"Whether we sought out our demons or salvation, the other race would always remain just that:
menacing, alien, and apart"

I have a question to BHO:

Your biological father, mother and sister (Lolo and Ann's daughter) were comfortable with Barry. Why you suddenly started feeling that race is menacing, alien and apart?

You ARE one very confused man, BHO. This confusion only drove you towards pastor Wright of TUCC Chicago. Now the rest is history.

The Black Racism practiced by
African Americans will drive the Whites in key states like OH, PA, FL, VA, IN towards McCain, and you will have a humiliating loss.

All your own making, BHO.

Stay tuned.; July 01, 2008 12:33 AM
Independent Voter said...: OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA '08; July 01, 2008 12:37 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Hi Dave how are you. I had a great time on my birthday. Of course I was very tired the next day but well worth it.I hear you are going to Palm Springs have a lot of fun!!!!!!!!!! Jean; July 01, 2008 12:40 AM

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