Democratic Convention Watch: Open Thread

Tuesday, April 01, 2008

Open Thread

WE'VE MOVED! Democratic Convention Watch is now at http://www.DemocraticConventionWatch.com

What is McCain's latest "senior moment", what does Obama need to do to win in November or whatever else is on your mind.

And please be excellent to one another. We do not accept name calling or any attacks on our commenters. Any objectionable comments will be deleted. Try to be civil.

Thanks!

New Open Thread here
This one is now closed for comments.

4188 comments:

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apissedant said...: Oh, Dave,
Ethanol replaced MTBE, which is a petroleum derivative that is toxic and pollutes both the ground and the water when fuel tanks leak. Ethanol on the other hand is just liquor, pretty much harmless.

We need them because they contain oxygen, so it makes for a cleaner combustion product, less CO emissions. It also increases the octane rating, preventing your car from knocking. I believe the standard right now is about 6.7% ethanol or something. That much is necessary. I would much rather buy Brazilian sugar cane based ethanol or use switch grass though.; August 03, 2008 12:08 AM
jean said...: Indy,
Universal is really fun for the teenagers.
Rides and weird crap that is not at a regular amusement park.
You could also check if they have a show that night etc.
My god I am a tour director.
I will be quiet now:0
It is possible.
jean; August 03, 2008 12:10 AM
suzihussein22 said...: jean-When's the next tour starting for munchkin land? huh, huh, huh...that's not a pothole, it's the yellow brick road...might want to skip the flower field, even though I'm starting to take naps in my old age ;)

Ya don't say-

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/08/02/dems.senate/index.html

Where have I read most of this already? Oh yeah...hmmm...DEMCONWATCH! Keep up the great work! Don't let a major news channel take your credit.; August 03, 2008 12:20 AM
jean said...: suzi,
I just checked and the Wiz(Matt) stopped by and everything is gone by ****:)
Got a little heated and I did not notice.
Jumping in and out I missed it.
Thank you Matt.

Have a good night suzi,your highness:)
I am going to talk to the husband.
He gets a little jealous when I blog.
That is not all bad.
jean; August 03, 2008 12:32 AM
Independent Voter said...: LOL jean.

Ya, I like Universal also, but they are only in town until Saturday morning, so we decided instead of making the drive up to the LA area twice we would just go to Six Flags and Sea World. :)

p'd ant - ya I knew it was MTBE that ethanol replaced, and I knew it was toxic, but I didn't realize it was petro based. And yes, I agree we need it, for now, but I would be even happier if we got off all petro based fuels - I know VERY idealistic, but one can dream, can't they?

By the way, is anyone else getting as tired of these damn "Lockup", "Dateline: To Catch a Predator" and other BS stories that MSNBC keep showing over and over and over and over and over and over and over......oops, I began to think that I worked for MSNBC.

I understand that the Dateline stories are extremely disturbing, because it is about internet child predators, but please, how many times can you replay the exact same story, week after week after week after week after week.....oops, did it again. DAMN.; August 03, 2008 12:35 AM
suzihussein22 said...: It sounds like McCain is finally getting a song-

http://www.examiner.com/a-1515727~Country_star_John_Rich_wants_fans__Raising_McCain_.html

McCain's daughter likes the group this guy sings in. Not me. His partner contributed the maximum to Obama's primary campaign though, hee hee. :); August 03, 2008 12:52 AM
suzihussein22 said...: iv dave-Are they trying to show up America's Most Wanted?; August 03, 2008 12:55 AM
apissedant said...: Dave,
I'm a liar, it isn't petro based. Sorry... posted from memory doesn't always work. Wait, never mind, I was right, I'm not a liar. I could delete all this, but I'll just post it as is anyways.

In any case, so switch grass on all the farmland we don't farm and keep in reserves. That way it is still in reserves, we're not destroying the soil, and we get our additive. Then we improve fuel economy to an average of 35 by 2012 instead of 2020. Europe already has 45, and Japan already has 50, so this is completely plausible, even with larger more powerful cars. We build windmills out the wazoo in areas that aren't in the migration path of birds or near caves where bug eating bats live. We switch a large portion of our cars over to run partially off of propane. We install more solar panels. We open a few new nuke plants. We pullout of Iraq and use the proceeds for a one time giant buy where we build mass transit in every major city in the nation. This is a great idea, because our economy sucks and we need jobs and we need mass transit. FDR style fix. We continue working on alternative energy and better mass transit, but with these items, we're already doing ok without it. To get the Republicans to sign on board, we allow off-shore natural gas drilling. Natural gas is cleaner, and since the plan has us switching some cars over to partially propane, we could use a little extra anyways.

Vote for me!

That is all just energy, some of it benefits the economy, and some of it benefits the environment, but the main oal is just energy.; August 03, 2008 12:56 AM
apissedant said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; August 03, 2008 12:59 AM
suzihussein22 said...: jean-

http://fcbs.org/images/Neo/neo_Lollipop_Lady.jpg

It's not sweet, but it's my favorite color. levity :); August 03, 2008 1:03 AM
Independent Voter said...: suzi, I don't know what the hell their doing, I'm not even sure they know what their doing.

------

p'd ant - seems like you have a good plan worked out there. Unfortunately, Repubs would NEVER sign off on the thought of mass transit. They keep blocking the bullet train here in CA that has already been approved by voters.; August 03, 2008 1:34 AM
apissedant said...: Yeah, that's why you try to throw them a bone like off shore natural gas drilling...
Still gives them their payout, though not as much, but a smaller environmental impact and a lower chance of dangerous spills and widespread polution.; August 03, 2008 1:37 AM
apissedant said...: You never know... especially in two years with the off year Senate and House elections. Propose a bill that has what is actually necessary, and just enough of the Republican garbage where the people as a whole will support it. Throw out an advertising blitz for every Republican up for reelection. (Might even be able to get T Boone Pickens to foot the bill). All you need is 60 votes in the Senate, and the House shouldn't be a problem. In the Senate, we should have at least 55 Democrats. Of the seats up for reelection in 2010, 19 are Republican, 6 are either Democratic states, or toss-up states. McCain will also no longer be angling for President, so he may drift back towards the center. It could happen if you had a group of moderate Democratic and Republican Senators sit down and start ironing it out right now, so it is ready to go by the middle of next year. (Nothing in our government works fast)

Barack Obama has obviously already written a pretty intensive plan, all he has to do is get Chuck Hagel and a few other moderate Republicans on board to help write it. Yeah, we'd spend up the debt, but it would actually be an investment in our future instead of a cash loan like the stupid rebates.; August 03, 2008 1:53 AM
Independent Voter said...: Forget the bones. Give them the boot. :); August 03, 2008 1:54 AM
apissedant said...: The nuclear power thing would be a Democratic cave too, because for some reason Democrats don't like nukes... so Republicans would get something to take home to their guys too. They can all look like heroes, AND actually do something constructive, instead of the typical political technique of doing a whole lot of nothing and trying to look like heroes.

It could happen, I wouldn't put odds on it, but it could happen.

OH!! The best part! Ford motor company would sign on, because they're already restructuring their US plants to nearly meet the fuel economy requirements, so they would actually end up ahead of Toyota and Honda for a change. Not in sales, but on the American preparedness curve. GM and Chrysler might not be happy, but oh well.; August 03, 2008 1:58 AM
apissedant said...: lol Dave,
I'd love to, but 45% of this country would vote for Mr. Bean if he had an R by his name.; August 03, 2008 2:02 AM
Independent Voter said...: Hey, I can handle that. Give all 45% of them the boot. LOL; August 03, 2008 2:11 AM
Independent Voter said...: I should start telling my mom and her husband, and my dad and his wife to start packing :); August 03, 2008 2:12 AM
apissedant said...: LOL,
You better kick 'em out quick. They all leave and Eva is coming back here and we don't have to move to Holland. ;); August 03, 2008 2:14 AM
apissedant said...: oh, night!!; August 03, 2008 2:15 AM
suzihussein22 said...: Here's a touching moment with a green screen, with a cameo by O'Reilly(oh really?)-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VrOd51pI0kM&feature=related

I had wondered what else people had come up with. :/; August 03, 2008 2:26 AM
suzihussein22 said...: Disclaimer-I watched this after the kids' bedtime-sexist, much?-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AaetSy2K1yQ

fair and balanced and hardhitting facts...we know who that is...; August 03, 2008 2:34 AM
Independent Voter said...: Hey ya'll, I started a new "blog" which can be found HERE. I figured, to avoid pissing people off, we can post "off-topic" discussions there.

You can click on HERE above or bookmark http://rnrdemcon.blogspot.com/

If you decide to post over there let the person you are addressing know that it is over there so you aren't talking to yourself. Odds are I won't be checking that one very often, unless of course someone says they have a discussion going on over there.

By the way, stop will be deleted every time I notice him posting, that is of course if he does.; August 03, 2008 3:36 AM
Mike in Maryland said...: Mr McLame may need to answer some questions that were touched upon briefly by Keith on Friday's Countdown in the story about the death of Bruce Ivins, the suspect in the Anthrax attacks in October, 2001.

On the video, Keith plays a portion of an October 18 David Letterman show where McLame comments about the Anthrax attacks, saying that "the second phase is Iraq. Uhhh, there is some indication and I don't have the conclusions, but some of this Anthrax may, and I emphasize 'may', may have coming ... come from Iraq. If that maybe the case, then that's when some tough decisions may have to be made."

Video of Keith's reporting on McLame's pathetic postulations is on YouTube at:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YYG3MJSPvmw

Not stated is exactly from whom did McLame get his [mis]information? I'm sure Keith will try to get some information on it, but I hold no hope for any others (except Rachel Maddow) to do any followup.

McLame's Letterman comments are at about 4:10 into the report.

Mike; August 03, 2008 5:47 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Rich (vtslayer)
I can give you a big reason not to have Bill richardson as a VP. He would sell his soul to have that spot. Even a long time friend. There are a lot of people and I am one of them that would not vote for Obama if he picked richardson for VP. I just wouldn't vote. I can't stand that SOB.Plus I think Obama is smarter than that. Jean; August 03, 2008 10:23 AM
Vicki in Seattle said...: whoa! just tuning in this am. it does look like perhaps an alternate venue for off-topic discussions would be handy.

thanks to IV, who posted a link above for such discussions.

I still think that a proper message board with threads would be useful, and easier to follow. I make a habit of scrolling past posts that I'm not interested in, but threads are easier.

I know one board where the forum topics are "discuss", "recipes", "entertainment", "health and fitness" and my favorite "whining". The moderators reserve the right to move a thread to the "whining" forum if they think it appropriate.

another board (devoted to alternative energy) has a forum called "fred's house of pancakes" which is pretty much an "anything goes, as long as you aren't flaming each other in there".

I think "open thread" here is roughly similar - it's nice to stay on the general topic of politics, but it's not my site to run, you know?

what do Matt/Oreo (and any other moderators here), think?; August 03, 2008 10:39 AM
Vicki in Seattle said...: aunt jean, Obama is smarter than that; if he proves himself un-smart in his choice of running mate, I will be very disappointed. But I personally am seeing 90% smart decisions out of him. Maybe 10% look like "huh?", at least at first glance.

beats the decision making process that I see out of the current administration!; August 03, 2008 10:43 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Vicki in Seattle

I agree with you. That's why I don't think that Obama would pick richardson.Do you think with him stabbing Hillary in the back that he wouldn't stab Obama in the back if he got a better offer!!!Yes I believe he would. Jean; August 03, 2008 10:52 AM
Vicki in Seattle said...: I kinda liked Richardson up to that point - but you don't just wander around ticking people off without paying the piper.; August 03, 2008 10:56 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Vicki in Seattle

I believe Sebeilus would even be a lot better choose than richardson and that one isn't a good one either for the simple fact she's a woman plus looks like a cold fish [sorry Leah].But mainly because she's a woman. Jean; August 03, 2008 10:56 AM
Vicki in Seattle said...: well, I like Sebelius too (I've heard her speak and she is clear and well-spoken; also, she's a woman, although I don't see her as a cold fish) - but I think he is more likely to go with the perceived 'safer' bet of a white guy.

maybe not. It would be nice to have someone from a red state. and apparently the press corps is in Indiana today for a longish stretch (as campaigns go, anyway - longer than 24 hours).; August 03, 2008 11:03 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Vicki in Seattle

I have to admit I've never heard her speak but looks speak but people take into account how people look [not right but how it is]. But the main reason is because she's a woman. It might be wrong of me to feel this way but I do if Hillary can't be there in not so much the VP spot I really don't want any woman in there in any spot. But I also agree that I think Obama will pick a white man because this country [which is totally wrong and bias] there are still Men out there that thinks woman are not able to be in that place.

A lot of them work for the media a bunch of bias jerks. Against AA's and women. Jean; August 03, 2008 11:15 AM
Vicki in Seattle said...: sorry, the press are in Indiana on Tues/Wed, not today. still, it's a longish stretch. It would be very early to announce a VP just yet.; August 03, 2008 11:52 AM
Vicki in Seattle said...: and Aunt Jean, there are a pile of media jerks out there, I see them too. And they anger me, but only if I listen to them.

Pointing and laughing is more fun, and I think it calls them out more effectively than answering them with anger.; August 03, 2008 11:54 AM
Beryl said...: "Do you think with him stabbing Hillary in the back that he wouldn't stab Obama in the back if he got a better offer!!!Yes I believe he would. Jean"

I feel the same way about Joe Lieberman. I was watching him on Meet the Press with Kerry and wanted to upchuck my breakfast. I do not trust him at all.

"It might be wrong of me to feel this way but I do if Hillary can't be there in not so much the VP spot I really don't want any woman in there in any spot."

I've heard that from a lot of HRC supporters, Aunt Jean and it troubles me. You have a right to feel that way but I hope you don't vote that way. Other women shouldn't be denied their shot. HRC may never be a president but that doesn't mean another woman shouldn't be.

Many women paved the way to the presidency and these left a lasting impression on me.

1. In 1872, Victoria Claflin Woodhull was too young at 33 but was going to select Fredrick Douglass as her running-mate. Is that foreshadowing or what?

2. Shirley Chisholm in 1972 was one for the first to represent the Democrats and run in many states. We should recognize her hutzpuh since she was also black.

3. First to make it through to the General Election for the Dems -- Geraldine Ferraro as a VP possibility in 1984.

4. Democrat Pat Schroeder in 1988. Important since she was a Colorado home-girl.

5. Democrat Hillary Rodham Clinton in 2008 (nuf said)

IMO, we need to recognize that each of these women have paved the way for the next woman but we shouldn't deny another woman their shot.

I hope HRC wouldn't have a problem with another woman becoming President or VP before her. Otherwise, she would be just like Jesse Jackson, IMO. He is just jealous because he lost twice -- 1984 and 1988.

IMO, we should remove gender, race, and religion as factors when selecting a our government officials. Voting should be based solely on policies, and character, and judgment.

(But then I'm a former independent who also kept political party out of the equation.); August 03, 2008 12:47 PM
Independent Voter said...: AJ, I don't think that Obama would pick Sebelius due to her gender. But I do understand what you mean about her being a cold fish. I initially had that feeling about her as well. I think that perception is based on her "response" to Bush's "State of the Union Address" (which he couldn't even remember what it is called) where she really seemed to be completely emotionless.

I have however, seen her speak since, and she really is a great speaker. As I mentioned before I don't think he would choose her because of her gender, it would be more than likely due to her accomplishments. Her own executive experience, her popularity in her home state, her ability to manage an economy, and her appeal among Republicans. Plus, she is "scandal free". She doesn't have any underlying potential scandals that will be coming out in October.

Anyway, that is my take.; August 03, 2008 1:09 PM
Richard said...: Aunt Jean, the people who say they wouldn't vote for Obama if he chose Richardson are the same ones who said they would never vote for Obama if Hillary lost.

The fact is that Richardson is a highly qualified person whose beliefs and goals are very compatible with Barack Obama's. So he chose Obama over Hillary...doesn't that just prove he has the independence to make such a choice? I take Richardson at his word that he feels Barack Obama is the better candidate. Personally, I would have far less respect for someone who put personal relationships and political patronage before the good of his party and the nation.; August 03, 2008 1:51 PM
apissedant said...: Saying that no woman other than Hillary should be given a shot is sexist. It is amusing to see someone complain about the sexism of men in the same post that they are posting a very sexist ideal. Obama can pick anyone he wants, and should pick someone who is intelligent, charismatic, honest, and fits with his platform. Sex, race, and sexual orientation should not qualify or disqualify a candidate. They are irrelevant. Sebelius meets all of these standards, and I would gladly accept and campaign for her.

There is the need to worry and placate the bias and bigotry of others when running a campaign, but there are some here advocating that that bigotry is ok. It is not. I find it disheartening that anyone would admit to personally having this bias, and personally take this bigotry into consideration when deciding how to vote.; August 03, 2008 2:27 PM
apissedant said...: Beryl,
I completely agree, even with the political party portion, even though I am an avid Democrat. Democrats are typically the candidates with which I agree, but I do not automatically disqualify Republicans, or automatically support Democrats. I will support a Democrat 99 times out of 100, because I agree with them, not because they are a Democrat.; August 03, 2008 2:30 PM
tmess2 said...: Even if we do not get to 60 in the Senate (a feat that would require several things to break our way in October), I think there is a good chance for getting stuff through the Senate.

If you look at the 2010 election, the following Senators are up for re-election -- Martinez of Florida, Grassley of Iowa, Gregg of New Hampshire, Thune of South Dakota, Bond of Missouri, Voinovich of Ohio, and Spector of Pennsylvania. If we can get 58 or 59, I have trouble seeing these Senators as being willing to take one on the chin on every issue for the ultra-conservative wing of the GOP.

If Sebellius is not the VP pick, my hunch is she will be our Senate candidate in 2010 in Kansas for what is supposed to be an open seat. You also have Vitter having to defend in Louisiana. The bottom lime being that with decent fundraising for the DSCC, 2010 is not looking like a good year for the GOP in the Senate either.; August 03, 2008 2:41 PM
jean said...: Sent e-mail
jean; August 03, 2008 3:35 PM
Mike in Maryland said...: The trip to Indiana later this week is interesting. Indiana is the home state of Evan Bayh.

The press has apparently been told they will be spending the entire time in South Bend, which is located 10 miles south of the Indiana/Michigan state line, and mid-way between Ohio and Illinois.

However, Bayh's home is near Terre Haute, in the south west part of the state, and a good four hour drive from South Bend.

Mike; August 03, 2008 4:05 PM
Vicki in Seattle said...: wow - you send an email, and the annoying posts are just GONE. like they never existed!

I think the moderators are doing a great job!; August 03, 2008 6:14 PM
jean said...: Wow,
Matt you are awesome.
Thanks
jean; August 03, 2008 6:43 PM
suzihussein22 said...: Cold fish? When are we going to quit watching for the lack of emotions or vice versa in females? I've just been reading up on as much background on all of them as I can.; August 03, 2008 7:57 PM
apissedant said...: soft,
Don't go straight to the sexism argument on the cold fish comment. John Kerry and John McCain have both been called dry and boring. Bill Clinton and Barack Obama have both been called electrifying and passionate. We examine the emotions and personalities of all candidates, not just female candidates.; August 03, 2008 8:24 PM
Mike in Maryland said...: An article in today's Baltimore Sun has some interesting information. The title of the article is "Downbeat mood hits GOP in pocketbook"

Seems the Repubs are SOOOO disillusioned that almost all the down-ticket candidates are having a terrible time raising campaign funds. One of the quotes is:

"It is the worst fundraising that I have ever seen," said Paul Wilson, a veteran Republican media consultant. "Candidates who were at $700,000 last time are now at $100,000. Those who should be at $350,000 to $500,000 are at $70,000."

Other information in the article includes new estimates on Repub losses:
Stuart Rothenberg has increased his estimate of Republican losses [in the House] to 10 to 15 seats, and said a 20-seat shift "would not be all that surprising."

and

With three months left in the campaign, independent analysts are forecasting Republican losses of five to seven seats. But if this turns out to be a 1980-style change year, as some expect, more Republican senators could be in trouble, including well-known figures like Elizabeth Dole and Mitch McConnell.

Article is at:
http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/nation/politics/bal-id.infocuswest03aug03,0,1194973.story

Mike; August 03, 2008 9:11 PM
Aunt Jean said...: suzihussein22

if I'm not quite sure if you were referring to me calling Sebelius a cold fish. I don't think that a woman in power has to act like she would help run a country,business, or whatever with an iron fist to be able to get things done. A woman is softer than a man and I think she would do a better job than a man for the simple fact she is softer. Guys I'm not saying that you are uncaring so don't get your shorts in a twist VBG.

As far as Richardson, no there is nothing wrong with backing someone that you think would do a better job it's how he did it that I have a problem with. I believe that he lied to Bill about that he wouldn't endorse Obama the night that they watched a football game together.Then he turned around [I believe the next day] and endorsed Obama. I believe he did it because he thought that he would get something out of it not because he believed that Obama was the best choose.

I guess what gets me the most about some posters here is it's alright for them not to do something because they feel it's wrong or what ever reason but if someone else doesn't have their opinion that they are called bias or racist or accused of sexism. I'm none of those things. There are men, women,in every race that is smart and can get a job done and done well.That they might go about it in different ways but the end results are the same. Jean; August 03, 2008 10:15 PM
Mike in Maryland said...: OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA '08!!

Mike; August 03, 2008 10:34 PM
Mike in Maryland said...: Aunt Jean said...
A woman is softer than a man and I think she would do a better job than a man for the simple fact she is softer.

Aunt Jean,

I had several bosses of both genders while working. The absolute WORST one I worked for was a woman.

She would direct her employees to do something, and do it immediately, then 20 minutes later scream at them for doing what she told them because there was something else she (supposedly) had told them to do.

The best boss I had? Actually it was probably two - a tie between a male boss and a woman boss.

So your blanket statement that 'a woman is softer than a man" is idiotically wrong.

Mike; August 03, 2008 10:43 PM
Independent Voter said...: Suzi,

First, the only reason I used that phrase, was to answer AJ but I can definitely understand where you are coming from. I would have just said she seemed lifeless in that response to Bush's State of the Union Address. She really was kind of dry in that and very monotonous (that is all I meant by saying that she was emotionless.) Hell Bush and especially McDirtbag sound like they are addressing a group of 5 year old when they're giving their speeches.

Please do not get me wrong, I DO like Sebelius, and I hope his campaign is taking a really good look at her as being his Veep. But I'm not saying that because she is a woman, I am saying that because I think she would be a great VP.

But I'm also somewhat realistic, I think he will probably go with a "safe" pick.; August 03, 2008 10:50 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Mike in Maryland

I'm sorry but you are idiotically wrong about them being the same. Men and women are not the same. Men think with only one side of the brain. Women think with both sides. A women thinks more emotionally than a man. If you don't believe me look it up. I know that there are women and men that are real jerks to work for but it still doesn't mean that a woman isn't softer. Jean; August 03, 2008 10:52 PM
Independent Voter said...: AJ, just an FYI, you said that Richardson endorsed the day after, it was nearly two months later before he endorsed.; August 03, 2008 10:53 PM
Beryl said...: "There are men, women,in every race that is smart and can get a job done and done well.That they might go about it in different ways but the end results are the same"

I agree Aunt Jean. I just wanted to encourage you to look at the HRC situation in a more positive light. Also, I wanted you to consider embracing another woman who might make it into the #1 or #2 spot before her. If that happens, it would not minimize HRC's efforts in the least. We stand on the shoulders of great people who came before us.; August 03, 2008 11:04 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Dave
to be exact he talked to Bill the night of Feb. 4th and endorsed Obama on or around the 19th of march and announced it on the 21st of March. I still believe the only reason he did was for his own pocket and I also believe that he told Bill that he wouldn't do it.It wasn't because he changed his mind he had a personal reason because he thought it would benefit him.

I had no problem with Carter endorsing Obama because he was above board about it. Don't get me wrong I wish that he would have endorsed Hillary but I don't hold it against him because he didn't. Jean; August 03, 2008 11:07 PM
Beryl said...: I agree w/Aunt Jean on this one. Women and men are definitely different in our approaches. The word "softer" is not interpreted in the same way so might not be the best descriptor, however.

Take a look at the works from Dr Patricia Heim. She is known for educating executives on gender diversity.

http://www.amazon.com/Hardball-Women-Winning-Game-Business/dp/0452270804; August 03, 2008 11:12 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Beryl I never said that if if some other woman besides Hillary made it to be in a race for President that I wouldn't vote for her because she was not Hillary. I just believe that it would be a mistake for Obama to pick a woman right now [guys not only because she is a woman] but because I don't think nows the right time because of what happened to Hillary with the media. Jean; August 03, 2008 11:12 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Beryl

you are right about the word softer. I just couldn't think of the right word so I thought softer was better than nothing but I also believe that the women on here and some of the men knew what I was trying to say. Jean; August 03, 2008 11:18 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Beryl one more thing thanks for the link.It's very interesting indeed! Jean; August 03, 2008 11:19 PM
Independent Voter said...: AJ, I was wrong it wasn't a full 2 months after, it was a month and a half. Either way, it wasn't the following day. That was the only point that I was refuting.

I wasn't saying it was a positive or a negative. None of us were there for the conversations between Richardson and the Clinton campaign, so none of us know for sure what the real content of their conversations. It is all a he said, he said situation that we will never know what happened. Either way it is all water under the bridge at this point.; August 03, 2008 11:38 PM
suzihussein22 said...: apissedant-Are you asking me to censor myself?

i v-Monotous I can understand better.

m in md-Hopefully they will realize there's obviously something wrong and they've been going in the wrong direction. By then though the Dems will have the majority back and something will start getting done again in Congress.

aunt jean-Hopefully more men and women will realize compassion and compromise are not weaknesses in leadership and politics.; August 03, 2008 11:39 PM
suzihussein22 said...: i v-typo...should be monotonous. :(

apissedant-I even have a t-shirt that says politically incorrect and PROUD OF IT. I typed the way I reacted, that's all.; August 03, 2008 11:45 PM
Aunt Jean said...: suzihussein22

I do like those two words they are more of the line that I was thinking of [compassion and compromise. thanks suzi. Jean; August 03, 2008 11:52 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Dave you are right about it at this point being a moot point only if Obama picks him for his VP. Jean; August 03, 2008 11:54 PM
apissedant said...: Aunt Jean said,

It might be wrong of me to feel this way but I do if Hillary can't be there in not so much the VP spot I really don't want any woman in there in any spot.

It isn't that you disagree with me that makes me claim sexism. It is the simple fact that you say Hillary or no woman. That is sexist. You are allowing him to choose from the entire male population, but out of the over 150 million women in this country, he is only allowed to choose one.

Aunt Jean said,
But I also agree that I think Obama will pick a white man because this country [which is totally wrong and bias] there are still Men out there that thinks woman are not able to be in that place.

A lot of them work for the media a bunch of bias jerks. Against AA's and women. Jean

This is you complaining about sexism, immediately after displaying your own sexism.

I don't call racism, sexism, bigotry, or anything else whenever someone disagrees with me. I have had several disagreements with several people on this site, and in many neither claimed the other was a bigot, just wrong.

In this case, you, again, first called sexism, against the entire country. I just exposed the sexism within your own statements.; August 04, 2008 12:02 AM
Beryl said...: You are quite welcomed, Aunt Jean. Dr Heim is incredible and enlightening. I saw her at a conference once. She acknowledges that there is no absolute in that ALL men and ALL women don't act the same. However, most of us are "hard-wired" the same.

The "Power Dead Even" concept with women made all of sense in the world. Women work better when we are all on the same level (Power Dead Even) where men work best in a hierarchy. Women get on equal footing in a community to care for each other's children and to gather food, wood, etc. ("It takes a Village"). We multi-task better than men. OTOH, men work best when you give them specific and a minimal number of tasks (take the gun and go to war or hunt).

However, we don't compete as well as men. For example, when a 2 male lawyers compete in the courtroom and one loses, they can still go out and have drinks, golf, etc. Women take it harder when we lose and cannot move on as quickly. (Sound familiar?) You see the same behavior with girls and boys. Boys can play-fight and still be friends. Girls don't want to fighting each other even in fun.

Which gender is better? Both. It all depends on the situation and the person's ability to adapt to their situation. Personally, I like to work with the differences. For example, I don't just hand my female assistant work to do (like the men can do). I chit-chat for a bit and then ASK her to do something for me. Keeping "Power Dead Even" between us results in her doing special things for me.

Also, I know men prefer hierarchies so I just tell my male subordinates what I expect and put them in charge of things. Also, I treat my boss as my boss.; August 04, 2008 12:05 AM
Independent Voter said...: AJ, I don't see Obama picking him, but I've been surprised before. I don't think he is really still in the mix though. That could however be on purpose to distract the public from trying to "guess" who he will pick.

After all, we all know John Edwards is no longer in the mix, especially with the most recent charges of his infidelity, despite whether or not the charges are true or not.; August 04, 2008 12:06 AM
Beryl said...: Meant to say
"Girls don't want to fight each other even in fun."

You know what I meant -- forgive the typos. It is late and I don't take time to correct them.; August 04, 2008 12:08 AM
suzihussein22 said...: Keep on spinning it, "liberal media"-

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20080803/pl_afp/usvotemccain;_ylt=AqNfj64q..83NQ8O7KPQz0iyFz4D

It's a good thing they keep fawning over Obama. If I kept reading how effective McCains strategy is, when his campaign realizes what it is, I would have to mail him some pompoms. 2 4 6 8 who does he appreciate? It appears to be Lieberman, who now reminds me of Wormtongue in the LOTR Two Towers.

OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA; August 04, 2008 12:12 AM
apissedant said...: soft,
I would never ask you to censor yourself. I very much appreciate and desire your opinions. They are typically quite insightful and I enjoy reading them.

What I am asking is that you don't immediately jump on the sexism bandwagon, and first analyze the situation to insure there is adequate reason to shout it. There is very good reasoning for this. Here is a Washington Post article outlining my beliefs on this, albeit about a much different issue:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/08/01/AR2008080103014.html?hpid=opinionsbox1

It is the "boy who cried wolf" scenario on global warming in the case of this article.; August 04, 2008 12:15 AM
apissedant said...: Left handed people typically use both sides of their brain, should we only elect lefties to the White House? They are more both side dominant than women are, because women's ability to use both sides is primarily concentrated with the act of listening.; August 04, 2008 12:29 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Apissedant

I never said that a woman wasn't able to do a great job what I was referring to was the fact that this country [men not all men] wasn't ready for a woman [which they should be] because of what happened to Hillary. She has been there and been thru it so it's different with her not a strange woman that has never been thru it. I know how she will react to things not some other woman. Sexism to me means that I believe that a woman can't do it at all.. So NO I'm not showing sexism. Did I not say that I would vote for a woman even if it wasn't Hillary if one ran again. So how can you sit there and say I'm showing sexism? Right now at this time in history it should be about what american needs and we NEED that because of the way times are going now.

Why is it that I have to go into great lenghts to explain myself when it's not required of other people is it because I backed Hillary? There is a female on here that is rude and obnoxious to me but do I call her that no because she has a right to her own opinion even though she doesn't think the way I think or believe.

I still believe that Hillary would have made one heck of a president but do I go around saying because you guys were fools for not voting for her. No because once again you have the right to vote for who you want to. Do I have a problem with someone disagreeing with me no only when someone insults me because of the way I believe.

sorry this is so long.Please don't think that I'm trying to insult you because that isn't my purpose for this post. Jean; August 04, 2008 12:31 AM
Richard said...: The perception that women in positions of authority are more likely to behave from compassion is widespread, but I am not sure that it is justified. I have read studies which suggest that women in positions of authority are actually less compassionate and less likely to consider emotions in their decision-making, perhaps because they are especially concerned that they may be perceived as "soft" and overcompensate.

Whether in an ideal world this would be the case is questionable. There are many social pressures on women in the workplace. It is possible that in a more equitable society women in authority would not feel these pressures; on the other hand, I have a feeling that in a more enlightened society men in authority would behave in a more compassionate manner as well.; August 04, 2008 12:33 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Apissedant

by the way I'm a lefty. LOL Jean; August 04, 2008 12:33 AM
jean said...: Sunday night.
Watching "Blazing Saddles"
Priceless
It was filmed in 1974.
Mel Brookes
We still have not learned.
Have a good night.
jean; August 04, 2008 12:34 AM
apissedant said...: beryl,
I agree on your evaluation pretty much. Men and women have different skills, both are necessary, and I would not describe either one as better than the other. I was thinking of making a silly sports analogy and asking whether a point guard or a center was a more important position, and then I decided against it. Then I typed it anyways... neat how that works.; August 04, 2008 12:34 AM
apissedant said...: rich,
It is also possible that the women being promoted are just more harsh and less soft women. This could be an example of the idea that women have to work twice as hard to be viewed the same. Maybe they have to be twice as mean to be viewed as strong and in control as well. There is also the possibility, as you say, of overcompensating so they're not perceived as soft, or a third possibility. Some of the most strict teachers and bosses I've had were originally ridiculously lenient. When this failed, they got angry at their students or subordinates, and went a full swing of the pendulum to the opposite side. Who knows. Not debating your facts in any way, just offering a few other possibilities assuming your facts are true.; August 04, 2008 12:41 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Apissedant

you might like this link because it tells about how men and women use their different sides of their brain not just for listening.

http://news.scotsman.com/latestnews/Revealed-How-men-and-women.4296438.jp Jean; August 04, 2008 12:43 AM
apissedant said...: Aunt Jean,
I am not questioning all you say, or attempting to attack or insult you at all, just those points you make with which I find fault.

You most definitely said that you personally did not any other woman on the VP slot than Hillary. I know people find it demeaning and arrogant when I post definitions, but I do it because definitions are rather important. We don't get to redefine words here, we must work with the definitions that are already accepted.

Sexism-discrimination or devaluation based on a person's sex, as in restricted job opportunities.

Restricted job opportunities; saying a woman cannot be given the VP slot because Hillary isn't being given it most definitely meets this definition.

As to the claims of you being asked to defend your claims due to Hillary support, this is most definitely not the reason. I believe nearly everyone can say that I have personally argued with them at length, with the possible exception of Dave. I am argumentative, and focus heavily on being correct. This does not mean that I only focus heavily on proving myself correct, but instead I focus on the idea that the end statement offered is a correct statement. If I am wrong, I not only invite, but encourage others to prove me wrong, because I want the facts.

As to the person you're talking about with whom you have bad relations, she has been called out several times as well. Less often than you, but that is because she typically does not participate in arguments, instead just posting articles and poll results.

She has been called out on her attacks on John McCain over the age issue several times by several posters. I have personally questioned her over her propensity to accept unsubstantiated claims that agree with her preconceived notions, and her tendency to question and assault unsubstantiated claims that disagree with her preconceived notions.

The attacks are never meant personally, just meant to invoke questioning, higher level thinking, and expose truth.

By the way, I'm a southpaw too. ;); August 04, 2008 12:55 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Someone said:
"Men and women are not the same. Men think with only one side of the brain. Women think with both sides."
----

That is completely incorrect.

Human beings use both sides of their brains. Each side of the brain have different functions.; August 04, 2008 1:00 AM
apissedant said...: Aunt Jean,
Oh I fully understand that the male and female brain is different, I was just disputing the idea that women use both sides and men only use one. Men and women both only use one in most cases.

As to the last part of that article, they left out some very important scientific beliefs. The X chromosome is much larger than the Y chromosome, and contains much more genetic material. Men obviously only have one X chromosome, while women obviously have 2. Due to this, a recessive gene on the X chromosome becomes dominant in men, because there is no gene on the Y chromosome to overrule it. This is mostly a theory too, but it makes more sense and has more scientific backing than, "because they're guys and their brain works different they are more likely to be dyslexic."; August 04, 2008 1:06 AM
apissedant said...: Leah,
Very true, but people are more likely to use one side of their brain than the other for tasks.; August 04, 2008 1:07 AM
Aunt Jean said...: apissedant

let me back up and say something else a different way. As far as Hillary being VP not really keen on it. There are some upsides to it because of what Obama and Hillary want to do for the people. I just believe that this country is in such sorry shape because of the way the country has been run. That now is not really a good time for a woman in the VP spot or should I say a different woman not because a woman wouldn't be good at it but because we don't need the distraction that it would cause.Hillary has been there and I don't believe that it would cause that big of a distraction.
Now does that sound better.Jean; August 04, 2008 1:08 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: It would be WRONG for Senator Obama not to consider Gov. Kathleen Sebelius for the VP slot because she is a female.

Sebelius is qualified, experienced, has integrity, is a team player, and has integrity.

If Obama does not consider one or two females for the VP slot then it would be very very wrong. And this as NOTHING to do with Hillary. This has to do with WHO IS THE RIGHT 'PERSON' for the job.

Obama '08

p.s. I can even see Hillary supporting Sebelius for VP because this will move Hillary's agenda for more females being in top notch positions.; August 04, 2008 1:10 AM
apissedant said...: Dave,
The reports about Edwards are from THE NATIONAL ENQUIRER. What's more, they claim that he was being chased by a gaggle of paparazzi, yet no photos have been published. WHAT!?!?!? Is this the same paparazzi that catches every famous woman's snatch when she disembarks from her vehicle? How did they forget to actually take pictures?

The guy in the men's room didn't recognize him as John Edwards until someone suggested to him that it was John Edwards. Really? He couldn't recognize John Edwards? This is why they have lineups for eye witnesses. If you show someone a picture of someone, and ask if it was that person, you have programmed in their mind that it was in fact that person. It is too suggestive to be used as evidence, especially if money and interviews with the press are rewarded if he says yes.

I like substantiated evidence.; August 04, 2008 1:14 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Apissedant

I'm really ambidextrous my identical twin is only right handed but that is the way of all or at the very least most identical twins or either 1 is left and 1 is right.Jean; August 04, 2008 1:19 AM
Independent Voter said...: p'd ant - I totally agree. I wasn't saying that I believed the rumor by any means. All I was saying was that simply a rumor will ruin nearly anyone's chances. Look at the rumor Bush started about John McCain back in 2000.; August 04, 2008 1:21 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: I believe that there should not be a controversy over Obama picking a female VP (other than Hillary - because I do NOT believe Hillary would have made a good president or vice-president). If Obama were to chose a female VP such as Gov. Kathleen Sebelius on the MERITS of her resume` then MORE POWER TO HIM!!!

Obama/Sebelius '08; August 04, 2008 1:22 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Independent voter-

You have the right to post what ever you wish on your blog but I do find it offensive that you have used my name on the first post of your blog. I have never said that I was 'pissed' - that was YOUR impression of the situation. I was only stating my opinion here on DCW of what I thought would benefit this thread. If it makes you feel better to belittle me on you blog then 'have at it'.

Obama '08; August 04, 2008 1:25 AM
Independent Voter said...: Leah, you made one of the points I was going to make as well, about advancing Hillary's agenda of advancing more women to top positions.

Another benefit of not choosing Senator Clinton is that we will need as many Democrats in the Senate as possible, to get through the policies that she and Obama are fighting for. As for me, I would like to see her take over Reid's position. He seems to be as worthless as they come. Pelosi needs to be replaced by Deborah(sp?) Wasserman-Schultz.; August 04, 2008 1:25 AM
Independent Voter said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; August 04, 2008 1:27 AM
apissedant said...: Aunt Jean,
That sounds much better.

I'll admit that I am worried about electing the first black man ever to the WH at the same time our nation is confronting the worst economic and world image crisis since the Great Depression. Just as you said, I'm not worried that he can't do the job, in fact I am convinced he can. I am worried that this nation is fickle and irrational, and will revolt when the economy isn't instantly fixed on January 21st. This could easily fuel irrational racism.

I really don't want to hear, "well we elected a black man in 2008, and look what happened."
I have continually said that I'm afraid the next President has a high likelihood of being a one term wonder, and I hope I'm wrong, but due to this, I can understand your misgivings, and when phrased like this, I do not judge them as bigoted.

P.S.
I still like Sebelius. I'm willing to give those two a chance, and I think they'd be great at the job. I'm willing to giving Americans a chance to prove me wrong, and prove themselves to be less bigoted and reactionary than I believe them to be.; August 04, 2008 1:29 AM
Independent Voter said...: Leah, Thanks for bringing it to my attention that you were offended. I just removed it. It wasn't meant to be a belittling statement. Please accept my apologies.; August 04, 2008 1:29 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Independent voter said: "As for me, I would like to see her take over Reid's position. He seems to be as worthless as they come."
----

The problem with this is there are SEVERAL more people that are more qualified and that have more seniority than Hillary does for that position. You can't just jump from Reid to Clinton and ignore all of the other Senators in between.; August 04, 2008 1:32 AM
apissedant said...: Leah,
I don't think you should have felt he was belittling you. If anything, he was showing you a sign of respect. There is no doubt that you dislike the long arguments and personal conversations on here, and that is the primary reason I originally said a place to carry on those conversations when they grow out of control here was warranted. There was definitely no offense intended, quite the opposite.; August 04, 2008 1:35 AM
Independent Voter said...: Leah, you are correct that there are those who have more seniority; however, I can't think of anyone else who has the backbone that Clinton has (with perhaps the exceptions being Biden and Feingold).; August 04, 2008 1:35 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: You said "Pelosi needs to be replaced by Deborah(sp?) Wasserman-Schultz."
----

I must confess that I have not researched Wasserman-Schultz but I have heard her many times on the TV and she is annoying and a huge flip-flop. She bashed Obama to high heaven when she supported Hillary and now she is dripping sugar for Obama. At least Pelosi takes a position and sticks with it. I really do give credit to Pelosi for sticking to her guns (as a woman in a mans game).; August 04, 2008 1:37 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Leah I don't care what you think about Hillary if you want to get nasty I can get nasty. Hillary would have made a great president and as far as the VP she is better than that. She would make as good a president or even better than Obama. Now you don't want to be offended don't offend other people with your words either. Jean; August 04, 2008 1:38 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: apissedant-

It doesn't matter who is elected as our next president.... white, black, brown, yellow, green!

Whoever it is will inherit a huge mess - the economy, the war in Iraq, healthcare issues, social security, jobs, the price of gasoline, etc.

The republicans always leave the Democrats with a mess and I think Obama will do just fine.; August 04, 2008 1:42 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Apissedant

hopefully people will realize that he will not be able to correct the damage that has been done it won't be an easy fix. It will take a lot of time to correct the damage that has been done to the country for so many years more so in the bush's run. Jean; August 04, 2008 1:42 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Leah
and you are right when you said that the republicans always leave a mess for the democrats to clean up. Jean; August 04, 2008 1:44 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Aunt Jean said: "Leah I don't care what you think about Hillary if you want to get nasty I can get nasty."
-----

Dear Aunt Jean,
I was not being nasty. I was stating my OPINION which IS Hillary would not be a good president or vice-president. Last time I looked this was still the United States of America and I still have the right to state my opinion.

We can 'agree to disagree' but you can not say what I have a right to say or not to say / or think or not to think.

I do believe that everyone on this thread has taken your thoughts and feelings into consideration - so to be fair you should also realize that others have opinions and thought that might differ from the ones that you have and we should all respect each other thoughts and opinions.

Obama/Sebelius '08; August 04, 2008 1:48 AM
apissedant said...: Leah and Aunt Jean,
I agree with both of you. The problem is if the President forced to clean it up is a minority, the blame adds fuel to a fire. It gives bigots a new illogical argument that could very easily gain traction. Imagine if Carter was a black man or a woman. There was really no way for him to magically fix everything after Ford and Nixon, but he still gets the blame!; August 04, 2008 1:50 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Independent voter-

The two names that pop into my head are Senator Schumer and Senator Biden.; August 04, 2008 1:53 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: apissedant-

I don't think that Senator Obama is worried about getting any blame for 'cleaning up the republican mess'.

I believe that many folks already know that there IS a mess that needs to be cleaned up.

I believe what Obama says when he said that he would immediately have his folks review the things that Bush has put into place that have infringed upon our civil liberties etc., and that anything unconstitutional he would have reversed.

I believe that Obama respects our U.S. Constitution and that he will OBEY our U.S. Constitution -- what a wonderful change that will be ;)

I believe that Obama will restore respect to America in the eyes of the world - how wonderful that concept will be! I will no longer feel ashamed when traveling in Italy when I say that I am from the United States of America!

No ONE president can do 'everything' within the time given, but I do believe that PRESIDENT Obama will accomplish great things in the time that is given him.; August 04, 2008 2:00 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Leah
and I agree with you. The point I was making was the fact that you got mad at Dave for saying something about you but you sure don't mind saying nasty things about other people [Hillary]knowing it would make me mad because you didn't have to put it the way you did. But you seem to have a habit of making me mad. Is it because I don't agree with you about Sebelius? But of course it doesn't sound like we agree on much of nothing.You have a very bad habit of putting people down that someone supports if they don't agree with you. Then you come up with this bull about not telling you how to vote, think, or anything else. Have alittle respect for people or sould I say have some for my beliefs.I never said that Sebelius was not a smart woman.But you on the other hand made me feel you believed that Hillary wasn't smart enough to be President or VP. Or that she didn't warrent being in any job besides the one she was in. Jean; August 04, 2008 2:01 AM
Independent Voter said...: Leah,

My problem with Reid and Pelosi is that they keep caving into Bush's demands. They have caved on so many issues over the past year and a half that it is extremely difficult to decipher between the two parties. And in doing so, they continue to put the Democratic nominee in compromising positions. Excellent example would be the telecom bill. Now granted I personally don't take issue with the bill, however there were a lot of people within Obama's base that did. I keep hearing from them, "we aren't going to be strong-armed by Bush" but they are letting themselves be strong-armed. The two of them are spineless in my opinion. I'm not referring to their actions in the primary, I'm talking about their actions as the leaders of the two chamber. I personally believe that they really are not very effective when it comes to their "leadership" roles.

Now I also understand that compromise has to be a part of the process, but they have compromised parts of the parties platform which is something that I disagree with completely.; August 04, 2008 2:03 AM
apissedant said...: Leah,
Completely agreed, but in relatively recent history, we have both Carter and Bush 41 being blamed for problems created by their predecessors, and not fixing the problems in the time frame that voters expected, i.e. less than 3 years. Due to the primary campaigns starting earlier and earlier, Obama may only get 2 years.; August 04, 2008 2:05 AM
apissedant said...: Leah and Aunt Jean,
If you would like to continue this conversation between the two of you, there is a new forum made specifically for it. ;); August 04, 2008 2:06 AM
Independent Voter said...: LOL p'd ant..............; August 04, 2008 2:08 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Apissedant

that's not very nice because you rant sometimes so is it ok for you but nobody else.

Dave I hear you laughing. Jean; August 04, 2008 2:11 AM
apissedant said...: Aunt Jean,
I know I rant sometimes, that's why Dave made the new forum. I have not had an opportunity to use it yet, you two do have one right now. Can't blame me for not using it when it wasn't there.; August 04, 2008 2:13 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Apissedant besides I'm your elder have alittle respect .You too Dave.VBG Jean; August 04, 2008 2:14 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Aunt Jean-

From DAY ONE on this thread I have always taken the position that I believe that Hillary would not make a good president or vice-president. I have never said otherwise.

I believe that for several reasons based on: her integrity, her experience, her business dealings, her connections, her personal associations, her ideology, her history of how she ran her campaign as far as her budget and her managerial skills.

Now as far as Independent Voter's remark on his website regarding me - that has nothing to do with 'Hillary'. That had to do with the fact that I did not appreciate being singled out in the post on his blog. I do like the idea that he as created a place for long off-topic discussions, but I did not see a need for his 'ribbing' (a nice way to phrase it in my opinion).

No matter what you say now or in the future I will 'always' be against the idea of Hillary in the position of president or vice-president. That is how it is and it is not going to change.

I do find it offensive that some folks think that ALL females should NOT be considered for the VP position because of 'some slight' to HRC. As a woman I find this to be outrageous and demeaning to the female gender as a whole!; August 04, 2008 2:16 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Independent Voter-

I think that Pelosi and Reid are just letting the clock run out because they know that soon we will have a Democratic president and a democratic majority in the Senate.

There are many things that I have not agreed with that Pelosi and Reid have done but we must remember what it is that they are working with - toooo many republicans!

I do believe that we are going to see some surprises once Obama gets into office.

Is there anyone other than me that thinks that perhaps Bush and Cheney will be brought up on war crime charges ?; August 04, 2008 2:23 AM
Mike in Maryland said...: Aunt Jean said...
I do like those two words they are more of the line that I was thinking of [compassion and compromise.

Aunt Jean,

The very worst boss that I ever had was a woman who had absolutely NO compassion NOR compromise.

This was a woman in the federal government. She was in a position that it was easier to get rid of her by giving her promotion. The promotion was framed in such as way that she accepted, or lost her job. However, with the promotion, she was then put in a position that made it easier to fire her. She was then given the option of finding a new job outside the agency, or being fired.

THAT is how much disruption this woman caused.

Most women probably do have more compassion and compromise within them. It is NOT a blanket truism that applies to each and every woman. But that is how you used it, as a blanket statement.

When you stop making blanket statements, I'll stop calling you on it. What is 'usual' for a group does NOT mean it applies to every member of the group.

Mike; August 04, 2008 2:23 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: apissedant said...

..... that's why Dave made the new forum. I have not had an opportunity to use it yet, you two do have one right now.
--------------------

LOL --- as many HOURS that I have spent wasted reading through all of the off-topic posts lately on this thread I do believe that one or two comments from me is not going to hurt anyone! Besides my 'short' diatribes are nothing compared to the 'book' some have posted here.; August 04, 2008 2:27 AM
Aunt Jean said...: leah
all those things that you said about Hillary except for the last two things are totally wrong and once again totally wrong why don't you look at Obama's past it doesn't smell like roses either. Also He's been associated with [true or not] with some terrible people then tell about how bad Hillary is. What a joke!!!!something who said in quite awhile that the reason they didn't want any other female in there because it would be a slight against Hillary. I do believe that you need to get glasses or reread posts. Jean; August 04, 2008 2:30 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Mike in Maryland

where in any post did I say that it applies to every woman.Of course it doesn't applies to every woman. Just like other things doesn't apply to every man. Jean; August 04, 2008 2:34 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Mike-

The best bosses that I have ever had were men. I have had two women bosses and they were both bitches. I once owned a company and I would say that my employees probably thought that I was also a bitch!

In the home I think women have more compassion, but when it come to business and in the work place I have not seen the 'softer side' of females.

Looking at Sebelius' record I think she will be on point and a stickler for details and will be able to be a wonderful bitch with a touch of class when need be ;); August 04, 2008 2:34 AM
Independent Voter said...: ROFL at your "book" comment Leah! :); August 04, 2008 2:38 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Aunt Jean said: "What a joke!!!!something who said in quite awhile that the reason they didn't want any other female in there because it would be a slight against Hillary. I do believe that you need to get glasses or reread posts."
----

AJ - I do not know what you mean in the above excerpt. Please expound...; August 04, 2008 2:39 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; August 04, 2008 2:39 AM
apissedant said...: Leah,
If that is how you feel, so be it. The fact is that you were the ONE that complained multiple times about off topic conversations, and even had people posting "off topic" at the top of the post for awhile. The fact that this is an open thread makes it difficult to decipher what exactly is off topic, but that is a different discussion entirely. In any case, you may not like being singled out, but it was definitely your words that prompted the creation of another forum. If you feel so strongly about staying on topic in this thread, well it seems to me it would behoove you to lead by example. Using the, "well you did it first" excuse doesn't really encourage anyone else to divert their conversations either, now does it?

I personally don't care, and enjoy taking part in all the conversations. Keep it here, move it there, do what you want. Just realize that keeping it here encourages others to do the same.; August 04, 2008 2:42 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Leah you made this statement nobody said anything of the sort for a long time. Jean

I do find it offensive that some folks think that ALL females should NOT be considered for the VP position because of 'some slight' to HRC. As a woman I find this to be outrageous and demeaning to the female gender as a whole!

August 04, 2008 2:16 AM; August 04, 2008 2:43 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Anyone looked at the photos of McCain and the boobie girls on the front of HuffPost tonight?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/

I can't wait until Jon Stewart, Jay Leno and the rest of them start talking about this ...

I am still in 'shock' that the folks at Sturgis even wanted McCain to show up there!!!!!!!

I wonder if they have some ulterior motive that we haven't heard about yet ;); August 04, 2008 2:46 AM
Mike in Maryland said...: Aunt Jean said...
Leah I don't care what you think about Hillary if you want to get nasty I can get nasty. Hillary would have made a great president.

Aunt Jean,

In your opinion.

And you do NOT have the same opinion as everyone else.

I personally think that Hillary Clinton would have been a good president, certainly better than almost anyone the Republicans would have in the Oval Office. But, in MY opinion, I believe that Barak Obama was and is the better choice for President.

Facts cannot be disputed.

Fact: water freezes at 32 degrees F at sea level.

Fact: water boils at 212 degrees F at sea level.

Opinion: The San Francisco Giants are a more worthy team to root for, and be a fan of, than the Los Angeles Dodgers.

Opinion: The New York Yankees and the Green Bay Packers are the lowest scum of pro sports teams.

See the difference? If you don't, take off the blinders so you can actually see the world.

Mike; August 04, 2008 2:46 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Mike In Maryland

excuse me in my belief I think Hillary would make a great president.That's a fact!!! I see the world for what it really is maybe you are the one that needs the blinders off. Jean; August 04, 2008 2:50 AM
Independent Voter said...: This ought to make Johnny boy's Christian Reich-wingers happy.

And no, I do NOT consider all Christian's Reich-wingers. Just those hypocrites who try to force their views and translation of their religious text on everyone else.; August 04, 2008 2:53 AM
Mike in Maryland said...: Aunt Jean said...
Apissedant besides I'm your elder have alittle respect .You too Dave.VBG Jean

Displays of agism are not appreciated, especially when I am older than you, Aunt Jean. Not by much, but I AM your elder.

Of course, if you want to use the 'I am elder, so listen' tactic, then would you listen to me when I ask you to just shut up Aunt Jean?

Of course you wouldn't listen. Just remember that the next time you tell someone else to 'listen up' because someone who is older than them tells them to 'listen up'.

BTW - when I was growing up, the term 'listen up' was the last words stated before 'shut up'. So when someone says 'listen up', I take that as a command to 'shut up'. That type of attitude was not appreciated then unless there was a serious reason for it to be invoked, and it is not appreciated now.

Mike; August 04, 2008 2:53 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: apissedant-

Please don't pull a "McCain" on me. (A McCain = do something over and over again then complain that something else does it once) Ya'll have posted 50 - 100 posts that have nothing to do with the election or politics. Like I said, if I now post one or two **SHORT** comments I really don't expect to be criticized for doing it. If I were to want to post 25 posts regarding the gay community, gangs, college, cooking, or bio-chemistry then I would move on over to I-Vs blog... but that is not what I have done ;)

This morning I really had decided to stop posting on this thread, then this evening I returned to peruse the posts and realized that the discussed had returned to the election and politics - so HERE I AM ;); August 04, 2008 2:53 AM
Independent Voter said...: Leah you beat me to that posting at HuffPo.

I SOOOOOOOOOOOOO can't wait to hear Pat Robertson and James Dobson's views on this. James Dobson was just starting to come around to McCain. If they still endorse him, it will prove that they are the hypocrite that we all know they are.; August 04, 2008 2:59 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Mike In maryland you are being very very RUDE. To begin with I WAS NOT talking to you. I was talking to Apissedant and Dave Plus I was joking with them didn't you see the VBG. Now if they had a problem with it now that would be something else.. So it would be appreciated if you wouldn't be rude to me when I wasn't talking to you.Jean; August 04, 2008 2:59 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Aunt Jean said: "Leah you made this statement nobody said anything of the sort for a long time. Jean

I do find it offensive that some folks think that ALL females should NOT be considered for the VP position because of 'some slight' to HRC. As a woman I find this to be outrageous and demeaning to the female gender as a whole!"
-----------------

AJ-
I NEVER said that the people on THIS thread said it. If you read all of the other websites (HuffPost, Washington Post, NY Times, PUMA, JohnMcCain.com, Foxnews.com, CNN.com, etc.) you will see TONS of articles and comments where people are saying that it would be a 'slight to Hillary' if another female is considered for the VP position.

Please do not try to put my comments in any other context than I myself put them into - spin is not going to work here.; August 04, 2008 3:00 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Leah

They have a right to believe what they want to believe too.Are you always this rude?

this sound like something a spoiled person would say:

Please do not try to put my comments in any other context than I myself put them into - spin is not going to work here.; August 04, 2008 3:06 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: I think this should be repeated many time ... just for the fun of it!

John McCain and the Boobie Girls

John MCain and the Boobie Girls

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/08/03/topless-women-kid-rock-bi_n_116632.html

.

I would love to have the opportunity to go to Sturgis. My first love (who was a biker in the 70's passed away this year) and I can't see me ever going to Sturgis without him... but I REALLY can NOT see McCain in Sturgis!!! What on earth is the world becoming when McCain is invited to the biggest coolest event there is !!!!!!!!!!!!! Something is definitely out of whack here!; August 04, 2008 3:09 AM
Mike in Maryland said...: Aunt Jean said...
I see the world for what it really is

THAT, Aunt Jean, is your OPINION.

Opinion: a belief or judgment that rests on grounds insufficient to produce complete certainty. In other words, a belief that may or may not be backed up by FACTS.

Fact: Something that can be proven through empirical evidence.

What you see as reality may or may not be fact.

Question: If insanity is defined as outside the norm, would a society be 'sane' if the majority of people in that society are 'insane'?

Could the society defined as the United States be considered sane when the majority of voters, in 2004, elected George W. Bush President? It was the majority's opinion that GWB was the 'best' - not just a better candidate than John Kerry, but 'THE BEST'.

Mike; August 04, 2008 3:12 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Gwyneth Paltrow's Newest Film: Dems Abroad Ad For Obama

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/08/04/gwyneth-paltrows-newest-f_n_116657.html

p.s. I was disappointed that the media did not mention that there are tens of thousands of AMERICANS in Germany and in Europe... many of them went to the Obama rally overseas!!! And John McCain has been very disrespectful to all of them!; August 04, 2008 3:13 AM
apissedant said...: AJ,
I knew it was a joke, and it was cute. ;)

Leah,
I already said I don't care if you post "off topic" items here. I'm not complaining, I was making a suggestion in order for you to stay in-line with your own well documented principles. Continue here with the conversation, but realize next time you complain about my off topic conversation, I will be less likely to comply or even apologize.; August 04, 2008 3:16 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Aunt Jean-

In the posts above within two minutes time you inferred that both Mike and I were 'rude'. I see a problem here regarding how you view the comments on this thread.

If someone had asked me over the past few months who I had thought was the rude people on this thread my answer would not have be either Mike or me.

Obama/Governor Kathleen Sebelius '08

Signed:
Leah - the person that ain't taking $hit from anyone anymore ;); August 04, 2008 3:18 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Mike in Maryland when it comes down to it what you believe doesn't matter if it is true or not it how you believe and think.

Of course I never thought Bush,Bush, or Reagan was good presidents. That is why we are in the mess we are in that also is a fact. I didn't vote for them and never would I vote for people like them. Jean

I'm going to call it a night I have to keep my great niece that is 16 months old and a little sweetheart. So goodnight.

Apissedant and Dave have a nice one. Jean; August 04, 2008 3:20 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Leah sounds like you have the problem and a dirty mouth.; August 04, 2008 3:22 AM
apissedant said...: Oh, and of course all of the conversations you just mentioned occurred BEFORE the new forum was created. I apologize for not traveling forward in time and not having the conversation in the new griping thread. You could have at least pretended the latest sexism conversation was off topic, since it was after the creation of the new forum. This may have been difficult, considering it was about the VP selection and you participated in it, but at least it wouldn't require time travel.; August 04, 2008 3:22 AM
apissedant said...: I'm personally very upset that Paul Revere didn't just phone ahead to tell the patriots that the British were coming. It would have allowed us to be much more prepared for the ensuing battle.; August 04, 2008 3:23 AM
apissedant said...: Goodnight AJ; August 04, 2008 3:24 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Apissedant

LOL have wonderful dreams!!!!! GN Jean; August 04, 2008 3:26 AM
Independent Voter said...: Good night AJ; August 04, 2008 3:36 AM
Independent Voter said...: OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA '08; August 04, 2008 3:36 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Happy 47th Birthday Senator Obama!

In honor of Senator Obama Birthday I've donated $47 to his campaign at www.BarackObama.com

Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama '08; August 04, 2008 3:37 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; August 04, 2008 3:37 AM
Mike in Maryland said...: Aunt Jean,

When you state opinion as fact, then it is YOU that has a problem. When you state that you see the world in a specific manner, that is your OPINION of how you see the world.

An insane person sees the world differently than a sane person.

Sane persons see the world differently than other sane persons.

When you post your OPINION, know that it is YOUR opinion, not fact just because that is the way you see the world. And if you can't separate opinion from fact, then we will interpret it for you.

After all, if how you see the world is fact to you, then how the rest of us see the world might be interpreted as fact for us, and presented as such. If you have a problem with that, that is your problem, not ours.

However, most of us realize that fact and opinion are two different concepts, and when we write, we take it into account. If you persist in presenting your opinion as fact, then be prepared for others to challenge your opinion, especially when they have facts to present that are different from your 'facts'.

Mike; August 04, 2008 3:38 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; August 04, 2008 3:40 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; August 04, 2008 4:12 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: From Deep in the South of Texas...

What Has Happened to What We Call America.

Okay, so Obama is a politician just like the rest of them. That is no shock to anyone that has a brain.

Many presidential candidates haven't done what they said what they would do after they took the oath of office. Many presidents have taken us into wars that we shouldn't have gotten into, We have had a president in the 60's that cheated on his wife; another that cheated on his wife and lied under oath; GWB has let the oil folks screw us at the pump, and others in the past have done things that were not honorable or in the best interests of the majority.

BUT the fact is that NOW is the first time in a very long time that there has been someone that has given the American people, young and old alike, a glimmer of hope - and his name is Barack Obama. He has given us a reason to get involved in the 'democratic process' that we call our government. A sense of 'if you do something - anything at all - then things can change and be better'. The sense that anything imagined can be achieved if you work hard enough and believe in what you are striving for.

I honestly can not understand why there are so many people in the USA that have bashed Senator Obama for things that are NOT TRUE: his religion, his patriotism, his stance on issues, his country of birth, his experience, family values, and his morals.

At the beginning of this race I was starting to become proud to be an American again. There have been so many times that I have been ashamed to be an American - such as when I have been overseas in Italy and my Italian side of the family has mentioned President Bush and how they so dislike Bush and what he stands for.

I am outraged and disheartened at the BS that the John McCain campaign has been spewing regarding Senator Obama's overseas trip to foreign countries and his distaste for the renewal of respect for America in the eyes of the world, disheartened that John McCain publicly states that Senator Obama 'wants' America to lose the war in Iraq, and disheartened that John McCain can be so petty and juvenile in regards to the hope that Senator Obama can bring to the American public. I am outraged at the McCain camp that they insinuate that just because some of us American voters LIKE, ADMIRE and some even LOVE Senator Obama that we are 'sheep' 'drinking the kool-aid' and blindling following a false Messiah.

When exactly was it that our American culture lost all respect for our Senators and public officials? When was it that it became okay to talk of our leaders in a disrespectful manner? When was it that Americans lost all sense of decency? When exactly was it that some politicians became self centered and forgot about the American public and their needs and desires? When was it that media started to make the news instead of reporting the news?

Some folks say that voting for Senator Obama is risky... I say that NOT voting for Senator Obama is a risk that we must not take.; August 04, 2008 4:42 AM
Mike in Maryland said...: I see that our former poster, the Yammerer, has assumed a new pseudonym (or maybe it was Lanny Davis all along) and is now sending op-ed pieces to that POS so-called newspaper in DC, owned by the Moonie Church, the Washington times:

http://www.washtimes.com/news/2008/aug/04/fellow-democrats-kill-the-elitist-and-undemocratic/

Every thing that is stated in the op-ed piece was parroted like a good lackey by the Yammerer for months on end here at DCW.

Mike; August 04, 2008 6:08 AM
Beryl said...: "Leah and Aunt Jean,
I agree with both of you. The problem is if the President forced to clean it up is a minority, the blame adds fuel to a fire. It gives bigots a new illogical argument that could very easily gain traction. Imagine if Carter was a black man or a woman. There was really no way for him to magically fix everything after Ford and Nixon, but he still gets the blame! "

You are right and this concerns me greatly. Unless Americans are willing to exercise some patience and Obama is able to pull a few rabbits out of his hat, he will only be around for one term.

The downside is that many people will equate his perceived failure to his race. Again a double-standard. We don't equate Bush failures to his race.; August 04, 2008 10:47 AM
Vicki in Seattle said...: Leah, would you donate 52 dollars to me? yesterday was my birthday!

(VERY big grin!!)

great idea to donate $47 to Barack today! I may just tottle off and do that myself.; August 04, 2008 10:48 AM
jean said...: e-mailing now.
jean; August 04, 2008 12:13 PM
Vicki in Seattle said...: thank you jean.; August 04, 2008 12:16 PM
Thanh Bui said...: Haven't seen Stop for awhile. Now you appear.; August 04, 2008 5:04 PM
Mike in Maryland said...: From The Washington Post:
"Robert Novak Announces Immediate Retirement"

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/08/04/AR2008080401063.html?hpid=topnews

. . . Novak is retiring immediately because of a dim prognosis in his battle against a brain tumor, the Chicago Sun-Times reported today.

As I stated last week, I don't wish any life threatening disease or condition on anyone, but I'm thankful that it looks like we won't have this person around for the rest of this campaign. A permanent case of laryngitis would seem to be more appropriate. And a bit of carpal tunnel syndrome in the wrists and fingers would at least slow down his Neo-Con propoganda blathering columns.

Mike; August 04, 2008 5:46 PM
Beryl said...: The polls show them pretty much tied. Latest Tracking Polls Released August 4, 2008:

* Gallup Tracking: Obama 46, McCain 43.
* Rasmussen Tracking: McCain 47, Obama 46.

I'm thrilled to see Obama going on the offensive. It is pitiful how people are actually considering McCain as a viable alternative.

http://www.politico.com/playbook/

It is time to bring that gun to the knife fight. Isn't Obama from Chicago? It is time to speak truth to power. Bush/Cheney wedged a war based on a big fat lie to satisfy a thirst for vengeance and to promote big oil. Over a million innocent people are dead because of Bush's lie and McCain is lockstep with the current policies.; August 04, 2008 5:56 PM
suzihussein22 said...: HAPPY BIRTHDAY SENATOR OBAMA

Here's some friendly advice on how to speak in public-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0kr_P5rPciI

It's an articulation thang.; August 04, 2008 6:06 PM
suzihussein22 said...: off topic-It's saddening to hear Morgan Freeman is in serious condition after being involved in a car accident last night.; August 04, 2008 6:18 PM
Aunt Jean said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; August 04, 2008 10:09 PM
Aunt Jean said...: suzihussein22

about Morgan Freeman yes it's sad he's a great actor. Hopefully he will be alright. Jean; August 04, 2008 10:11 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Beryl

I agree that people will put more blame on Obama but if a woman was in there the same thing would happen. It is so wrong. I do believe people have their head stuck so far in the sand that they are unable to see or understand the basics. Like it's impossible to fix anything in such a short term when abuse has been going on for so long. I do not envy Obama I wouldn't want the job. It will make an old man out of him. Jean; August 04, 2008 10:19 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Vicki in Seattle

HAPPY BELATED BIRTHDAY, [ I was going to tease you about your age but decided against it. In case you're wondering look at my profile I'm still a spring chicken. LOL LOL Jean; August 04, 2008 10:24 PM
Beryl said...: I wish Morgan Freeman well too. He played a lot of movie Presidents -- as well as God. (VBG)

This is interesting and good news from the Washington Post covered on MSNBC today:
http://tinyurl.com/5654qc
...among white workers -- a group of voters that has been targeted by both parties as a key to victory in November -- Obama leads McCain by 10 percentage points, 47 percent to 37 percent, and has the advantage as the more empathetic candidate.; August 04, 2008 10:24 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Apissedant
don't even think it let along say it. Was it not you that AARP contacted. LMAO [but I still like u] Jean; August 04, 2008 10:26 PM
suzihussein22 said...: vicki-How young you are, how young you are, your smiles as bright as the sun, and we share your joy too...that's a suzihallmark moment :D

Morgan Freeman has several breaks but is expected to make a full recovery.; August 04, 2008 11:27 PM
Karen Anne said...: Super picture of MIchelle -
http://www.essence.com/essence/lifestyle/voices/0,16109,1651678,00.html

I'd like to see an article on her Mom. From the few photos I've seen, it looks like Michelle might have gotten her fashion sense from her.; August 05, 2008 6:38 AM
suzihussein22 said...: karen anne-Can you see how her smile actually shows in her face, even though it's posed? The more Ms. McCain is put out there, the more uncomfortable she looks. That could also be a good strategy besides getting McCain to lose his temper.; August 05, 2008 8:57 AM
Beryl said...: I love that picture of Michelle. She is so elegant that Cindy is now copying her (hair, clothing, etc.).; August 05, 2008 9:42 AM
Beryl said...: I just got that from our local supporters. Some people won't like it but I really appreciate it because I see similarities -- not in policies but in charisma and global influence.
----------------------------

Yes we did:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LfKXVDbvkoQ

YES WE CAN!

Pass it on!; August 05, 2008 9:45 AM
apissedant said...: I just won tickets, and I'm going to see Michelle Obama and Tim Kaine speak at the Opera House tomorrow. :)

Haha suckers! ;); August 05, 2008 11:09 AM
jean said...: ap,
fits in your budget and you are
so............gracious;)
Congrads
jean
and jealous.; August 05, 2008 11:23 AM
jean said...: ap,
Also,
Thank god. We needed to get you out of the house;)
jean; August 05, 2008 11:25 AM
apissedant said...: jean,
lol, I'll have you know... I went to 7-11 today. ;); August 05, 2008 11:27 AM
jean said...: ap,
Bless your heart. You ARE branching out.
Gotta go to work.
Have a good day.
jean; August 05, 2008 11:36 AM
stopOBAMAnow said...: "* Rasmussen Tracking: McCain 47, Obama 46."

If you include tee Bradley or Wilder Factor, then the Poll is

McCain 54% and Obama 42%

Obama is playing his Race Card, which will hurt him most in the South.

A Race Card will NOT make BHO the POTUS. He must stop it now.

Oh, well, I want him to use it as often as possible. He may get more votes from Blacks, but fewer from the White Working Americans!

Good job, BHO. Well done.

Stay tuned.; August 05, 2008 1:36 PM
Vicki in Seattle said...: sending an email (if I can figure out where the button is); August 05, 2008 1:46 PM
apissedant said...: 2006 Tennessee polling results:
RCP average: Corker +6%
Actual results: Corker +3%

I heart theories that don't work and just show the racism of the theorist.; August 05, 2008 1:50 PM
apissedant said...: 2004 Presidential Vote:
Tennessee: Kerry -14%

2006 Senate vote:
Ford: -3%

The people of this country are not nearly as racist as the Republicans would have us believe. They respect intelligence and integrity more than they fear minorities.; August 05, 2008 1:59 PM
stopOBAMAnow said...: "What Has Happened to What We Call America."

Nothing; America has been as vibrant and progressive as ever. Maybe, you were hiding in Italy for a long time!!!!!lol.

People oppose BHO for his sheer inexperience in National Politics and Policies.

He has the thinnest resume for any Presidential Nominee from a major Party.

His rhetorical eloquence and ability to read from the teleprompter ALONE should not be the criterion to be the Nominee!

People need more than that.

Please read "The Obama Nation" by Jerome Corsi.

Plus, BHO = CarterII
BHO = Bush in 2000 (nice guy)
BHO = Risky and Dangerous.

--From Dallas, TX.

Stay tuned.; August 05, 2008 2:01 PM
apissedant said...: Anyone curious and unfamiliar with what Oreo looks like? There's a youtube video with him in it!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4Y9KtsQaqE&eurl=http://zennie2005.blogspot.com/

Now I know who the man behind the curtain is. :); August 05, 2008 3:22 PM
Beryl said...: Should Cindy take it off for the cause?

http://tinyurl.com/5jwxgz; August 05, 2008 3:36 PM
Oreo said...: New Open Thread here

We're going to start using our new commenting system with it.; August 05, 2008 3:50 PM

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