Democratic Convention Watch: Open Thread

Tuesday, April 01, 2008

Open Thread

WE'VE MOVED! Democratic Convention Watch is now at http://www.DemocraticConventionWatch.com

What is McCain's latest "senior moment", what does Obama need to do to win in November or whatever else is on your mind.

And please be excellent to one another. We do not accept name calling or any attacks on our commenters. Any objectionable comments will be deleted. Try to be civil.

Thanks!

New Open Thread here
This one is now closed for comments.

4188 comments:

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jean said...: Ap,
Ok.
My brother was a bubblehead for 7 years and was under 9 months at a time. Many times the closest he got to shore was looking at it from his nuke sub surrounded by Navy Seals. He was offered $50,000 signing bonus for 2 more years.
He ran like heck the other way.
Remember also that I live in a military town.
I do not mean any disrespect for people who have served by this suggestion.
I am thinking of a different way of approaching a problem that could be recieved well by individuals you have no experience in the military.
I also feel you do not have a lot of respect for athletes.
Just a feeling;)
jean; July 28, 2008 4:31 PM
Mike in Maryland said...: To all whom I offended with my missive this morning, I apologize.

Except that apology does not go out to the three trolls that I named in that post.

In my defense, I am extremely tired of the blatant homophobia that is displayed by the three trolls, with their pathological lying and twisting of facts and information into 1980s style of gay bashing. And I will not start a discussion about their Neanderthal political thinking.

I will try my best to not even read, let alone respond to, any posts by the trolls in the future. All (except the three trolls) have permission to chastise me if I fail.

Mike; July 28, 2008 4:39 PM
apissedant said...: Mike in Md,
Who is the third troll?; July 28, 2008 4:46 PM
Beryl said...: Check this out folks. I've contacted the Colorado Dems to check on it.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x3688051

Not sure how true but I put NOTHING past the Repugs.

"In swing-state Colorado, the Republican Secretary of State conducted the biggest purge of voters in history, dumping a fifth of all registrations. Guess their color. In swing-state Florida, the state is refusing to accept about 85,000 new registrations from voter drives - overwhelming Black voters.

In swing state New Mexico, HALF of the Democrats of Mora, a dirt poor and overwhelmingly Hispanic county, found their registrations disappeared this year, courtesy of a Republican voting contractor.

In swing states Ohio and Nevada, new federal law is knocking out tens of thousands of voters who lost their homes to foreclosure.

My investigations partner spoke directly to Barack Obama about it. (When your partner is Robert F. Kennedy Jr., candidates take your phone call.) The cool, cool Senator Obama told Kennedy he was "concerned" about the integrity of the vote in the Southwest in particular..."; July 28, 2008 4:53 PM
Mike in Maryland said...: AP,

1. The 'non-practising' GYN
2. The Yammerer
3. SON

Although, as we've discussed many times, it's doubtful that 2. and 3. above are actually two separate trolls.

Mike; July 28, 2008 4:55 PM
apissedant said...: jean,
I assume you mean, "who" have no experience in the military, not, "you" have no experience in the military. Obviously as written it is incorrect. I understand the intent, and it would work with some, but most would find it an insult. As far as athletes... how much respect should I give them? Again, they are merely entertainers. I don't know why I would possibly give them more respect than engineers, doctors, nurses, or anyone else who actually has a measurable product emerge from their work.
I enjoy watching tv shows, movies, and sports games, and I like those I watch to be good at what they do. I realize their talent, but I don't idolize these people. They are just entertainers. I find the high esteem they have achieved in our society a very bad thing. There was a time in western history where it was the lowest form of employment. Now a girl who simulates sex in a movie is admired and considered a role model. WHAT?!?!? Natural talents are nice and entertaining, but that doesn't deserve respect. Those that use the spotlight they've been given to accomplish more are admirable. Those that just collect a huge paycheck and have fun are just in it for greed. Why should I respect someone using their natural talents to satisfy their greed?

Mike in Md,
Oh, I see you mentioned Yam, who hasn't posted here in forever, and is typically assumed to be Stop. That was the confusion, my bad. ;); July 28, 2008 4:57 PM
Mike in Maryland said...: It' looks like we'll get a break from the blatherings of the Prince of Darkness for the next few months, at least.

Being reported by most media, "Robert Novak Has Brain Tumor"

As reported by the New York Times:
“On Sunday, July 27, I was diagnosed with a brain tumor,” Mr. Novak said in a statement on Monday. “I have been admitted to Brigham and Women’s Hospital in Boston, where doctors will soon begin appropriate treatment. I will be suspending my journalistic work for an indefinite but, God willing, not too lengthy period.”

I don't wish any life threatening disease or condition on anyone, but I'm thankful that it looks like we won't have this person around for the rest of this campaign. A permanent case of laryngitis would seem to be more appropriate. And a bit of carpal tunnel syndrome in the wrists and fingers would at least slow down his Neo-Con propoganda blathering columns.

Mike; July 28, 2008 5:05 PM
Mike in Maryland said...: AP,

He's still here, just not posting on the Open Thread.

Take a look at the comments on the "A 9 Point Bounce?" thread on the DCW home page. Either someone has stolen the Yammerer's name for a comment, or the Yammerer is still Yammerering.

Mike; July 28, 2008 5:12 PM
jean said...: Ap,
Sorry for the typo's etc.
The phone keeps ringing and work does take priority.
UMMMMMMMMMMMM. Oh My.
#1 I do not idolize anyone.
Admire yes, not idolize.
To admire an athlete for their skill and craft is more than entertainment.
To attain being one of the best in a sport takes tremendous work, yes natural talent, an extremely hard work ethic, knowledge whether you respect that knowledge or not, and passion.

I am now waiting for the lightening strike of Leah asking why we are off topic.

If it was that easy to be a professional athlete I would agree with you. It is not.
To say an athlete does not deserve respect for a natural talent, WOW,
you do surprise me.

There is no measurable product for their worth.

I guess the Olympics are a waste of time.

How many days since you had a cig?

I am dropping this one.
jean; July 28, 2008 5:28 PM
Joshua said...: That’s the problem with liberals: lack of self-control. They post on impulse. They don’t like what you said; they tell you what they think of you immediately. Not what they think of your idea. What they think of you. Later, they apologize. When are liberals going to start acting like adults? They lack inhibition and go around demanding that the world cater to them. Bunch of socialist/communists.

The lack of self-control is exhibited in their off-line lives. Then they demand society to cure them without charge. They demand that corporations discover cures for everything that ails them; while they complain about corporations. It is a good thing they are powerless people.

I hope Obama does not bring any of these losers in with him. We have enough whiners in Congress. We don’t need any in the executive.; July 28, 2008 5:31 PM
jean said...: Ap,
Real quick.
To have a natural talent is one thing, to find it and develop it and be one of the best is another.
Most people do not do that in anything.
jean; July 28, 2008 5:31 PM
jean said...: ap
my son says that you just got cut from the team and still being mad about it.

The son typed the above and has been reading over my shoulder.; July 28, 2008 5:47 PM
Mike in Maryland said...: Jean,

There are some flies in your ointment - you argue that a pro athlete would make a good recruiter for the military. That presumes that a rookie draft pick will actually make the team. Not all of them make the team.

However, to become a good pro athlete, you must spend many hours each day in practice and training. It's basically a full time job, 12 months per year.

If you have a second job, and the military would require that second job to be the prime job, where is the time for proper training? If a player doesn't maintain practice and training, they get cut. Would the possible PR advantage of having a pro athlete doing military recruiting still be there if the pro athlete was cut from the team?

Also consider - what if he was traded to another team. Would the military want to transfer his recruiting to that other metro area? Would they even need additional recruiters in that other metro area? What if they wanted to transfer him to an area where there are no pro football teams, such as Portland, Oregon? Louisville, Kentucky? Columbus, Ohio? Does the NFL and teams in the league get to overrule the Army in determining where to assign Army personnel?

Add in the fact that when a person enlists in the military, and attends a military academy, they have effectively signed a contract. If the contract is to be modified, both parties to the contract must agree to the changes. If an active duty service member signs a pro sports contract, you now have two contracts, with three different parties involved, where the change in one contract might not be agreed to by the third party, the party not part of the affected contract. Can the military void the other contract? On what grounds? Or do they void their own contract, thus losing the personnel, and the PR of a pro athlete as a military recruiter?

IMO, since the West Point graduate has a signed and valid contract with the Army, that contract should be performed to conclusion. Especially when multiple and competing complications are almost certain to arise. Then other contracts could be pursued after the current contract has been completed.

Mike; July 28, 2008 5:57 PM
jean said...: mike in maryland,
No doubt he has to fulfill his contract.
I am just looking at the cost end which is minimal in reference for marketing and advertising.
The contract has to be to the Army's advantage.
If he doesn't make it and goes back into the Army full time that is another advantage showing the wonderful gesture that he was given a chance. The Army CARES.
I really think it is a lost opportunity for the Army.
In the beginning the NFL would have priority.
The average career in the NFL is 4 years. Yes some are longer.
That just means longer exposure for the Army and he STILL has to do his time.
jean
jean; July 28, 2008 6:07 PM
apissedant said...: jean,
I never got cut from a team, and I don't know why that would matter anyways. I'm not a doctor, a nurse, or an engineer, and I rated those as careers as worthy of esteem. Productivity. It is a really simple word, and those that are productive get my respect, and those that are not don't. R Kelly doesn't produce anything. His terrible CDs don't create jobs, save lives, cure cancer, educate people, or anything else. Why is entertainment above all else? Why should it be?

Not that this argument is even relevant anyways. The fact is he made a commitment to become part of a war machine, and now he has to be part of the war machine. Weaseling your way out is the same as draft dodging, and I remember Vietnam Veterans being very upset about draft dodgers.; July 28, 2008 6:21 PM
jean said...: ap,
That really was my son.
14 in honors and busting butt to try to develop a natural talent.

I will use the term "entertainment".
If done well it provides an escape that relieves pressure, stress and diversion which is critically needed for one's personal growth.
Without a periodic escape people would go nuts.
When this entertainment is done well it is appreciated.
Being critical beings we want the best.
This takes much work whether it is sports, theatre, movies etc.
Those individuals consider your attention to them for 1-2 hours of your life very important.
Some people do things very poorly and you do not want to watch them again. Actually that is most movies in my opinion.

You appreciate your eclectic collection of movies.
Yes I brought up the movies again;)
jean; July 28, 2008 6:36 PM
apissedant said...: jean,
Fully agreed, but is the "escape" more important that the actual work? What is the average salary of a pro basketball player and what is the salary of the average scientist? Would the scientist get out early from a military commitment, or just the entertainer?

I had a long winded response that died with my internet connection, but the basic logic is that if I am forced to decide which is more valuable, I'm going to pick the scientist, doctor, nurse, or teacher of the "escape" anytime. Our society, and you in this conversation, definitely put more value on entertainment than work. Isn't that a problem? Don't you think that might be why America is in such financial trouble now? All these ads on how to make money from home, with no actual work! Tons of people buying houses, paying someone else to fix them, and then reselling them for more. Making money for nothing! Entertainers making 20 million dollars a movie. In the same month we have the worst economic conditions in many regards since the Great Depression, we have the highest grossing movie ever, and the iphone 3G selling out. Where are our priorities? We spend so much time escaping that we never get around to working, and you're saying I should appreciate the escape more? Heck no! I spent way too much time with these distractions already. These items are already vastly overvalued.; July 28, 2008 6:56 PM
jean said...: ap,
We need both.
Yes, economically we are probally in worse shape than the Depression,
we also had the highest grossing movie in history at the same time.
Get the message.
I do value work above everything else. Even scientist need movies, books(fiction),sports etc. It feeds a persons whole.
I would almost say you would take away the arts as a waste of time.
You are a very serious man sometimes.
LEVITY is survival.
jean; July 28, 2008 7:10 PM
apissedant said...: jean,
Of course not! I already said they are important! I was in band, drama, I played soccer, and I played basketball. My point is that all of us, me included are so busy distracting ourselves that we rarely get around to actually working. We value entertainers as the highest achievers in our nation. We spend 104% of our income on average every year. We are completely upside down. We are mortgaging our children's futures for our own entertainment. Any argument that we don't put enough focus on entertainment is ridiculous. Half of college graduates can't place Maine, California, Florida, and Washington state on the map. They can't place the four corners, they can't give change from a register or balance a checkbook, and they can't write a proper sentence. They can all sing along to the words of Eminem, or name who holds the record for most touchdowns in a single season.

I love and value entertainment, but not to the point of my own detriment, and definitely not to the detriment of my child's future. Fun is great, but fun comes AFTER work. Our society has forgotten that very important lesson.; July 28, 2008 7:21 PM
apissedant said...: By the way, the coach for University of Michigan's football team makes 10 times what the President of the University makes. Same thing at Michigan State, Ohio State, Virginia Tech, University of Virginia, UCLA, University of Florida, and all the other big schools. There is no problem in this country with entertainment being undervalued. I'm willing to bet there are more ipods in circulation than dictionaries. Dictionaries are a lot cheaper too.; July 28, 2008 7:34 PM
Beryl said...: This has been out for a while showing the REAL John McCain:

http://www.brasschecktv.com/page/325.html; July 28, 2008 7:47 PM
apissedant said...: Has anyone posted this McCain moment lately?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKp4IDfEkMg; July 28, 2008 7:56 PM
jean said...: Ap,
Need to end this.
Yes I am working;)
I really do understand what you are saying and agree to a point.
I do not feel entertainers are the "most important" but you did degrade the entire industry pretty well.
Economically it is going to get real bad and there is no quick fix.
Entertainment on all levels will rise for peoples escape and vacations will be a minimum.
Going to a show down the street will be vacation.
People are working their behinds off to just make ends meet.
My kids have watched more movies this summer than ever, no vacation this year. Instead we have movie money.
I am preparing.
I work with foreclosures all the time.
Yes my house is upside down.
It was in 1992 also.
The pitching coach is doing duo lessons, two kids instead of one, so the parents can split the costs.
You live through it.
I want to be but I am not special and one of many!
Our prior booming economy created those salarys for entertainers and the irony is our weakened economy will sustain them.
No offense, you sound like Aunt Jean about teenagers and college students, and last I heard you are not over 30yrs old. She can at least say she has been there.
You are getting a bit righteous.
There has always been some who could not say or do whatever.
There always will be.

If you really want to go there it is the college educated students supporting Obama.

Maybe because I am older I can say LEVITY.

Conference call at 5 and late.
jean; July 28, 2008 8:03 PM
Mike in Maryland said...: The MSM is making a big point of pushing the new Gallup poll where McLame is up by 4 over Senator Obama.

Here's the raw story:

USA Today/Gallup
7/25-27/08
791 LV, 4%
900 RV, 4%
Mode: Live Telephone Interviews

National
McCain 49, Obama 45 (LV)
Obama 47, McCain 44 (RV)

Here's an analysis by a poster at Pollster.com:

How do you get from a 47-44 Obama lead among RVs to a 49-45 McCain lead among LVs?

A few quick calculations shows how. You have 900 RVs and 791 LVs, so that means that among your 109 UVs (that's unlikely voters according to Gallup) Obama leads McCain by a whopping 61% to 7%.

Putting it another way, according to Gallup 16% of registered Obama supporters are unlikely to vote compared with only 2% of registered McCain supporters.

Something seems to be TERRIBLY amiss in the Gallup poll, especially when the Gallup daily tracking poll does not reflect the same poll results, and other polls are also showing Senator Obama up.

Either the Gallup poll is an outlier, or someone manipulated some of the results to get what they wanted.

Mike; July 28, 2008 8:13 PM
Matt said...: From the admin: I will repeat the text at the top of this post:

We do not accept name calling or any attacks on our commenters. Any objectionable comments will be deleted. Try to be civil.

In addition, this is a Democratic blog, run by Democrats for Democrats. We reserve the right to delete any post that does not further the aims of the publishers. Any poster who continues to make posts that denigrate Obama or other Democratic policies will continue to have their posts deleted without warning. If you don't like it, please takes your rants and ramblings elsewhere.; July 28, 2008 8:20 PM
jean said...: Thank you
ALOT;); July 28, 2008 8:28 PM
Beryl said...: That poll must be an outliner since their daily and every other poll is opposite.

USA Today/Gallup McCain +4.0
Rasmussen Tracking Obama +3.0
Gallup Tracking Obama +8.0
Democracy Corps (D) Obama +5.0
FOX News Obama +1.0
NBC News/Wall St. Jrnl Obama +6.0

http://www.gallup.com/poll/109102/Gallup-Daily-Obama-49-McCain-40.aspx

Besides trying to pump up McCain, the MSM is boosting ratings. Actually, I'm glad to see this because a tight race will bring out the youth who might otherwise become complacent.; July 28, 2008 8:29 PM
Richard said...: Thank you, Matt! I used to post here all the time before it became overrun by trolls, and look forward to a return to civil discussion.; July 28, 2008 8:30 PM
Beryl said...: Speaking of civil discussion....

Any ideas on how to get the young people to get their behinds out to vote this fall? I fear that they will stay home. We need them.

Party-time right out side of the voting areas?

Free gas/beer/nachos?

????; July 28, 2008 8:33 PM
Richard said...: Beryl, the Gallup poll is actually an attempt at creating a likely voter model from a poll of registered voters. The registered voter model in the same poll has Obama up by 3 among registered voters. As Nate at fivethirtyeight.com points out, there appear to be problems with this model. If I had to hazard a guess, I would say an accurate measure of public opinion would be somewhere between the Obama +3 of the Gallup poll and Obama +8 of their tracking poll.; July 28, 2008 8:36 PM
jean said...: beryl,
Can't do beer. Illegal.
You know the 10 foot subs that you can buy.
Get meat and veggy.
Advertise free SUBS just past the legal position from the voting destination.
Great presentation, coolers full of sodas, just asking you to vote.
Tables full of subs for starving students. I was always hungry;)
Cool looking posters saying free subs starting at ten.
The massive 10 ft sub shows power.
I feel I am at a marketing meeting and don't go to the other place.
jean; July 28, 2008 8:46 PM
jean said...: Beryl,
If you advertise the supplier with big signs all over campus and at the site I bet they would cut you a nice deal, needless to say go shopping.
Promoting the small business man.
jean; July 28, 2008 8:49 PM
jean said...: beryl,
Marketing is my passion.
On a larger campus, OSU,Michigan, you could actually go with several restaurants, it is the beginning of the year for school.
Business thinking it could work for the establishment quite well.
Freshman and reestabishing prior product for returning students and being paid for it.
Could help for asking for help with signs to be printed by the restaurants.
I may be over the top.
Sorry.
jean; July 28, 2008 9:04 PM
Beryl said...: Great ideas, Jean! I'll push that around our college areas and college towns (DU, CU, CSU, UNC, etc.). I like the SUBS & Sodas plan with select vendors (keeps the Obama campaign from being liable in case someone gets sick).

They want to come out and just need a little motivation.; July 28, 2008 9:08 PM
suzihussein22 said...: The party idea is great. I've been kicking that around too. Pizza is also a good incentive. You'd be surprised how many vegetarian pizza and subs you'd have to order in this area. I'm not too far, as the crows fly, from a couple of campuses. I'm getting excited about it.

OBAMA '08; July 28, 2008 9:16 PM
jean said...: beryl,
I have been thinking about your post at 4:53 about depressing voting.
I am not sure how to put that.
If it is true it makes me physically sick.
And,OK,the name drop was pretty big;)
I do not mean you did it for the wrong reasons, just to show the importance.
Crap.
I am not saying it correctly.
jean; July 28, 2008 9:24 PM
Vicki in Seattle said...: that's not a bad idea, I should share that with the locals.

now, how do we market the granola/hippy vote? as in "I bet you vote *this* time, hippy?"; July 28, 2008 9:27 PM
Vicki in Seattle said...: beryl, ditto what jean just said (I think) -- if true, then this is an obvious way that the republicans are trying to swing this in their favor. it shows desperation, but sometimes desperation works.

also, big ole name drop! can I say I have friends in high places now? ;-)

and cool cool, is right. the man has a plan!; July 28, 2008 9:33 PM
Mike in Maryland said...: We keep hearing the meme that the MSM is showing bias FOR Senator Obama, and showing bias AGAINST McLame.

How true is that meme? Probably not even close.

The Center for Media and Public Affairs at George Mason University found that during the evening news on ABC, NBC and CBS, the majority of statements from reporters and anchors on all three networks are neutral.

When network news people ventured opinions in recent weeks, 28% of the statements were positive for Obama and 72% negative.

Network reporting also tilted against McCain, but far less dramatically, with 43% of the statements positive and 57% negative, according to the Washington-based media center.

LA Times article at:
http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-na-onthemedia27-2008jul27,0,712999.story

And here's a link to a UPI article on this study:
http://www.upi.com/Top_News/2008/07/27/Study_Media_rougher_on_Obama/UPI-43191217211564/

I can't find a link directly to the study report, otherwise I'd link it.

Mike; July 28, 2008 9:33 PM
jean said...: vicki,
I would go with a restaurant that does really well with salads and have a salad bar.
Anytime of day and always goes.
You pay them and they take the responsibility.
Chilled etc.
You could easily have a caterer do it.
Different Iced Teas would be nice.
jean; July 28, 2008 9:33 PM
Beryl said...: Jean,
Had to go back and remember what I posted. :)

Actually, the name-dropping came from the poster. Here is the shortened URL:

http://tinyurl.com/repubcheating

I don't plan to give this guy one penny of my hard earned money but it did concern me enough to contact the Colorado Dems. I'll follow up with them tomorrow.; July 28, 2008 9:41 PM
suzihussein22 said...: I bet veggie kabobs would go over good too at a tail-gate style party that would connect with that "demographic." Okay, this thread of discussion is making me hungry. :); July 28, 2008 9:41 PM
Richard said...: I had to go eat some nachos after reading your post, Beryl. This thread is not good for one's diet.; July 28, 2008 9:53 PM
jean said...: suzi,
Nice call.
My question is who is paying for this.
Campaign funds or individuals.
Two different things.
jean; July 28, 2008 9:53 PM
suzihussein22 said...: I think it's pretty classy that Mrs. O can talk about food without "borrowing" any recipes-

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-michelle-obamajul29,0,1911323.story; July 28, 2008 9:54 PM
suzihussein22 said...: jean-I think you can do things like that and it goes towards contributing to the campaign, like buying buttons and stickers from Obama's campaign headquarters.; July 28, 2008 9:56 PM
jean said...: A general suggestion because cost can easily become a factor.
Remember those slurppy machines that you loved as a kid.
If you had slurppys served just saying on the cup "PLEASE VOTE"
it could have impact.
Using natural ingrediants would be a major plus.
jean
I really do not know how to spell slurppy.; July 28, 2008 9:59 PM
Vicki in Seattle said...: has this become a food-oriented thread? because I can do that.

*drooooool*

speaking as a former (current?) hippy, well, just about anything in the food arena works. a restaurant (or even grocery store) coupon would work just fine. hell, with the grocery store coupon, you would just have to target Obama-friendly areas and everyone would turn out to vote.; July 28, 2008 10:02 PM
jean said...: beryl,
You are still on the A list;)
jean
Seriously,
Can funds be designated for this from the general fund from Obama?
Suzi said she thinks it is a contribution.
On this large of scale I find that hard to expect that from an individual. OSU is BIG.
jean; July 28, 2008 10:06 PM
jean said...: vicki,
You are a gem.
jean; July 28, 2008 10:10 PM
Vicki in Seattle said...: thanks jean!

my husband thinks so, too.

:-); July 28, 2008 10:18 PM
jean said...: Ok,
I took this as a serious question.
Surveys show that the economy is #1
priority.
Coupons with the Slurpy and promoting local business.
Have you ever been to a brain storming session.
It gets weirder than this.
jean
Just tell me when to stop.; July 28, 2008 10:20 PM
Vicki in Seattle said...: I don't quite follow you - are you expression concerns, or what?

?????

it's hard for it to get too wierd for me, keep explaining.; July 28, 2008 10:27 PM
Vicki in Seattle said...: "expresing" concerns, fyi ...; July 28, 2008 10:28 PM
suzihussein22 said...: granola/hippy vote-How about oatmeal raisin cookies or coupons for Quaker granola bars?; July 28, 2008 10:31 PM
Vicki in Seattle said...: in these parts, a coupon for a latte would go a long way, lol ...; July 28, 2008 10:35 PM
jean said...: Oh My. I didn't communicate correctly.
Giving coupons and promoting it could look weird.
Done properly where the intent is acknowledged and understood could be priceless.
Brain Storming.
Intent is great but if it is not accomplishedin communication it could be disaster.
Complexity can easily be the downfall of your message.
Guess what, I did that.
My mind was running faster than my fingers.
jean; July 28, 2008 10:47 PM
Vicki in Seattle said...: well, shoogs, I'm gonna go pack it in for the night ... if you all have a great idea, I hope to see it tomorrow sometime! sounds like it was either a great idea, or a lousy one.

sleep well. tomorrow!; July 28, 2008 11:10 PM
Vicki in Seattle said...: hey hey, that's the local paper here ... thanks for bringing it up!

we need to get this one out to the presses.; July 28, 2008 11:15 PM
jean said...: ap,
You have a problem with coachs making more than presidents of the universitys but their programs NET 27,42,31 MILLION a year that provides opportunities for 1000's in scholarships.
Do you think there is a reason why the Presidents of the Universities do not complain.
They actually promote them.
This does not include Alumni contributions.
Perhaps the programs are a financial advantage and the coaches are under fantastic pressure and could be fired on performance any moment.
Last I heard the profs can't unless it is gross neglect and they still get sebaticals.
Don't forget pension.
If I had a person in charge of a department making 27 million, good with me.
jean; July 28, 2008 11:16 PM
jean said...: vicki,
It was a great idea.
Just got to show it right.
Obama has been doing it for a while;); July 28, 2008 11:18 PM
suzihussein22 said...: It depends on what the definition of timetable is-

http://thinkprogress.org/2008/07/27/mccain-denies-timetables/

He dismisses it then as a buzzword. I just won't be surprised if the GOP picks someone else at their convention.; July 28, 2008 11:24 PM
Mike in Maryland said...: Today we had the Justice Department's Inspector General report on the screening methods for hiring as practised by Monica Goodling, et. al.

Now comes a report about the EPA sending an email to all employees, telling them not to speak to:

1. Journalists - that's OK, because there are people who are paid to deal with the press, and placing such a restriction is not against the law;

2. The Government Accountability Office - not TOTALLY illegal, but when the GAO is conducting an investigation, it is at the direction of Congress. Therefore, to tell employees not to speak to the GAO is a DIRECT snub of Congress.

3. EPA's Inspector General - THIS is a direct violation of law. The agency Inspector General, by law, is to investigate the agency's programs to root out waste, fraud and abuse, along with the mandate to make sure the agency is operating in compliance with general established policies of the government and the law.

CNN article at:
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/07/28/epa.gag.order/index.html

Mike; July 29, 2008 12:18 AM
apissedant said...: jean,
Most college athletic departments don't make money. Those that claim to make money typically manipulate the money and divert money around to make them look like they're in the black. They use state funds for the athletic department, they use tuition fees for the athletic department, they use interest free loans from university funds for the athletic department, and they divert contributions to the athletic department. The best estimate that I have seen is that there are roughly 10 college athletic departments in the country that are actually profitable. The idea that they generate money is a well advertised falsity.

A great example: UCONN. UConn basketball went crazy in the 1990's, and alumni contributions to the athletic department shot through the roof. The school was happy, and it looked like their athletic department was finally profitable.

Later, a study was done on the contributions to the University, and it was found that the contributions to the University had decreased by roughly the same amount that the contributions to the athletic department had increased. There was no net gain in contributions.

Being from where you are, you should understand that sports teams don't make the University money, and aren't necessary to attract good students. Berkley is the highest ranked public University in the country, and its sports teams suck. William and Mary here in Virginia is 5th or 6th in public schools, and its athletic department sucks too.
Private schools can say the same thing, Harvard, Yale, MIT, Princeton, Stanford... none of these schools are known for their athletic department. Stanford is ok, but it is no where near a top program. Yet all of these schools recruit the very best students in the country.

As far as generating scholarships... they don't generate scholarships... they use them up. The University money could go to a student who merits a scholarship based on hard work in the classroom, and could benefit from a University education. This would seem much more in line with the purposes of a University than giving money to someone who is going to leave after their sophmore year to go pro and start a dog fighting ring.; July 29, 2008 3:54 AM
jean said...: Ap,
Look at this article.
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/2007-01-04-ohiostate-finances-cover_x.htm
You might find it interesting.
jean; July 29, 2008 11:06 AM
apissedant said...: jean,
That article says everything I said basically. The athletic department "makes 2.9 million in profit," but not really. That doesn't include the costs of all the stadiums and buildings. They are paying those back, but they aren't paying any interest to the University. I guarantee every student pays a fee towards the athletic department as part of their tuition. Every major University charges an athletics fee.

The one guy in the article is an idiot, because he talks about how no other department can pay off their own debts, because they would have to use tuition dollars!!! A new biology building should be paid for by tuition dollars, that is what they're there for! Tuition isn't supposed to be profit, it is supposed to pay for the classes, that's why students pay it.

The guy argues that only the athletic department pays for itself, while I argue that the athletic department is the only department that doesn't pay for itself. It soaks up tuition dollars, but offers no credit hours. Every other program earns those tuition dollars and state checks, because it educates a student.

Now if Ohio State, a school that went to the championship two years in a row in football, and went two years ago in basketball, cannot make a profit on the athletic department... how could schools like George Mason, or Northwestern?

Oh, they also don't include free room and board to all the athletes. If you figure about 20k a year per student, it would only take 150 athletic scholarships to completely eat away their entire, "profit margin."; July 29, 2008 12:30 PM
apissedant said...: jean,
To give you an analogy on alumni contributions, think of it like the current issue with the Democratic party. The DNC is trying to to squeeze money out of us for the DNC fund, the DNCC, DNSC, local candidates, Barack Obama, and paying off Hillary's debts. Their are countless articles about the fact that squeezing us for all of these funds is resulting in lower contributions to each individual fund.
When I graduate from my University, I will undoubtedly get calls to donate to the Chemistry department, ODU, and the athletic department, to pay for the ill conceived new football program. I don't have unlimited funds, so my total donations will not vary much, and the more items I give to, the less I will give to each individual program. With me this doesn't apply too much, because I hate my school and refuse to give a dime to any program. It didn't help matters that I got my first letter asking for donation a week after I got my first tuition bill. The basic principle is still sound, my own personal conditions excluded. It also doesn't help matters that the students I'm "competing" with are almost all on full tuition scholarships, and because I came in as an adult student, I wasn't eligible for freshman scholarships.; July 29, 2008 12:42 PM
jean said...: Ap,
It is not all bad.
The Athletic Dept. also allots 1 million yearly to the library and 1.1 million to general fund.
While technically the football and basketball programs do make a profit all the money supports the sports that do not.
The figure does include 16.7 million for paying back loans for construction of facilities and maintenance.
I know you do not like athletes but do not compare a few screw ups as the majority to the 1000's of participants.
While some of these individuals do get scholarships they are there for education. Less than 1% go to the pro's.
We have beat this to death and we will agree to disagree.
jean; July 29, 2008 1:02 PM
apissedant said...: jean,
I never said I don't like athletes, I voted for a pro athlete in the 2000 presidential race. Don't misinterpret my words. I also realize they're mostly their for an education. My point is that there are a lot of other students that are also there for an education, who are having to pay for those kids to play sports and get a free education. Again, the 16.7 million allotted to pay back building fees is an INTEREST FREE LOAN. A very moderate, 5% interest rate would have increased that fee by 10 million dollars, leaving them 7 million in the hole. Giving 1 million to the library and 1 million to the library is the same as you giving me 1,000 dollars, and me giving you back 100, and trying to say how generous I am for giving you 100 dollars.; July 29, 2008 1:35 PM
apissedant said...: Also, the basketball and football teams are profitable assuming they don't pay for scholarships, they get money from the general fund and donors, and the facilities they play in are paid out of the athletic department fund, and are not taken out of their "profits." Those are a lot of assumptions, and I make none of them.; July 29, 2008 1:37 PM
apissedant said...: Last point,
I don't know why you associate me not wanting to give them my money equates to me not liking them. I don't give a lot of people money, and it definitely doesn't mean I don't like any of them.

I really don't like black and white thinking... it is completely illogical. Either you support giving them your money, or you hate them. Either you support Bush's war on terror, or you're a terrorist. There is never a point when black and white thinking makes sense.; July 29, 2008 1:45 PM
jean said...: Ap,
Goodness,
I never even brought up anything about you contributing to your school.
Being that the figures given the 16.7 million covers debt service,
plus maintenance plus operations so there is a possibilty they could afford the interest and I am sure it is not 10 million a year.
In reference to they take funds out of the Athletic Dept, well of course they do.
That is where their funds go to.
That is what is shown.
I have not brought up any of the positives that sports develop in individuals and I am not going to.
There are many athletes who have a high GPA who got scholarships and they did both academics and sports.
Of course there are exceptions but that goes for everyone, look at the graduation rate of Freshman.
If an athlete does not perform in either category the scholarship is taken away.
You think their yearly donations are squat.
That equals 3.5% of their gross and that is a conservative estimate.
Most companys do not do that.
It sounds like you think scholarships to athletes is giving an ape a free ride while the true humans of intelligence who do not play sports are ignored.
There are a lot of scholarships available and that one pursues one in sports should not be considered "dirty".
I do not think in Black and White.
There is always grey and that was a very insulting inference.
When an athlete gets a scholarship it is after ACADEMICS and after 1000's of hours of hard work in their sport and after 100's of cuts to get where they are.
They did both.
Thanks
jean; July 29, 2008 2:29 PM
apissedant said...: jean,
I have finished reading that, but 10 million a year is most definitely what it would be. They listed 194 million as the debt that the athletic department currently has, mostly for the stadium. 5% of that would be 10 million. That is a pretty low interest rate too.; July 29, 2008 2:37 PM
apissedant said...: Your statements clearly show black and white. I never said all athletes are apes or insulted them as a class in any way. I have now said that I have nothing against athletes at least three times, yet you still claim I do. That is exactly what black and white thinking is.

The don't pay interest on the loans. As to what you're talking about with 3.5% I have no idea.

I didn't call athletes stupid, and it is completely irrelevant what their grades or graduation rate is. The fact is quite simply that their scholarship is for athletics, and not academics. A University's main goal should be education, because it is known primarily as an educational institution, yet it is giving millions of dollars in scholarships to people based on issues other than academics.

As to my contributions, yes you did bring them up. You talked about alumni donors. As of December, I am an alumni, so I was giving a personal example of how alumni donations work, and where the money goes, and how money towards one department typically means less money towards another department. Here are links:

http://vanderbilt.rivals.com/content.asp?SID=1087&CID=247065

http://title-ix.blogspot.com/2008/05/ncaa-releases-athletic-department.html

http://media.www.dailytarheel.com/media/storage/paper885/news/2007/04/26/InvestigativeTeam/Athletics.Costs.Outpace.Returns-2881699.shtml

http://www.doubleazone.com/2006/04/discussing_the_financial_issue.html

http://www.neuro.uoregon.edu/~tublitz/COIA/News%20of%20interest/College%20athletics%20budgets%20are%20bulging%20but%20their%20profits%20are%20slm%20to%20none%20-%20Sports%20Business%20Journal%2018%20June%2007.pdf

There really is no debate. It is quite clear that athletics does not turn a profit for a University. That is my only point. We spend billions of dollars on entertainment in this country, at the same time the money wells are drying up. The Chemistry department is operating in a 50 year old building that is falling apart, has a broken NMR, and only about half the equipment it is supposed to have. The result is an inadequate education. At the same time, the school is building a brand new football field for the brand new football team.

A University is known as an institution of higher education. It is filled with Doctors doing research on some of the most high tech and cutting edge items that will benefit our future. The students today will run the businesses, make the inventions, and teach the students of tomorrow. This is the primary purpose of a University, yet the athletic department is the highest priority when it comes to funding. This is insane and backwards.

Placing entertainment and entertainers on an undeserved pedestals is a very bad trend. We need to refocus our efforts so that we can compete with the world. It is well reported that more people vote for American Idol than for President, yet you defend entertainment as it is as a necessary outlet. An outlet from what? We haven't finished our work yet! How many people can't name the VP or the Secretary of State? How many people don't even know what an ARM is? How many people that have an ARM don't know what an ARM is?

Entertainment and fun is great, but you have to do your work first. We tell our kids they have to eat their vegetables before they can play, and then we buy a new flat screen television before we pay our mortgage.

It is all about priorities. Levity is great, but levity doesn't require billions of dollars. I can joke around with my friends or throw a frisbee or a football without spending a dime. After I pay all my bills and take care of all of my responsibilities, then I get to spend what time and money is left to enjoy myself. Not until then. That is my only point.

How many people at the age of 24 can quit their job for the next two and a half years and go back to college at the cost of 10,000 a year. Not only that, but still be able to pay their mortgage, pay for a wedding ring, immigration fees, plane tickets, and everything else, and still walk away with a positive net worth? I've been living poor as dirt for 2 years, because I have my priorities in line. At the same time, hundreds of gainfully employed adults are losing everything because they couldn't budget money and balance fun and responsibility.

I just thought I would bring the conversation back to where it began. ;); July 29, 2008 3:03 PM
jean said...: Ap,
You do not know if it is interest only on the loan.
A 180 month loan at 5% is 1,561,817.42 with an originating amount of 197,500,000.
Interesting day.
Earthquake just hit, just found out 5.8 in LA.
Less than 70 miles.
Aftershocks usually follow when it is that high.
Fine here.
Gonna check the house and get the daughter out of the shower.
Kids.
jean; July 29, 2008 3:05 PM
Mike in Maryland said...: AP and Jean,

I'm going to pull 'a Leah' here (with apologies to her) and ask you two to 'take it to the street' -

PLEASE!

Enough discussion of the athletic budgets!!

Mike; July 29, 2008 3:10 PM
jean said...: mike,
I did try and I apologize.
Done.
Now I need to take pictures down.
After 20 years I have learned.
After schocks suck.
Ap, I still care;)
jean; July 29, 2008 3:15 PM
apissedant said...: mike and jean,
OK. ;)

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/07/28/AR2008072802041.html?hpid=topnews&sid=ST2008072802433&pos=

To bring us back to politics, that's the latest Washington Post article on democratic VP selection status. Tim Kaine and Kathleen Sebelius are both on the short list it appears. Biden and Bayh appear to be other other two in major contention for the spot.; July 29, 2008 3:36 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: I think this is a GREAT article.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ryan-kauffman/my-blue-election-map_b_115514.html

Good to see the Texas paragraph with the Obama Texas win! And a love the map at the end of the article. Now we all need to cross our fingers and hope it comes true!

Obama '08; July 29, 2008 3:46 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: The other day McCain (or someone) put out a video mocking how the press loves Obama.

Now there is a video about how the press loves McCain!

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/07/29/mccain-the-press-does-lov_n_115573.html

Side note: I've been referring to McCain as 'A Grumpy Old Man' for the past week or so on other websites and today to my surprise I saw a 'grumpy old man' headline. LOL :)

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/07/29/gop-consultant-mccain-a-g_n_115589.html

Obama/Sebelius '08; July 29, 2008 3:57 PM
jean said...: It looks like good old boy Ted Stevens will not run in November.
I wonder if we can get a Dem in there.
Obama is only down by 6pts in Alaska.
One more Dem would be helpful in the Senate;)
jean; July 29, 2008 4:04 PM
jean said...: Finished looking at the research.
Nail should be in the coffin with the indictment and Begich should have it.
Stevens maynot even run.
jean; July 29, 2008 4:08 PM
tmess2 said...: With this latest report out of Alaska, perhaps its time for the pro-McCain folks in the MSM to stop this love affair and raise the name of Charles Keating.

Of course, that would require them to stop Obama bashing on ticky tacky procedural things and actually focus on real issues.; July 29, 2008 4:28 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: July 28

20 Years Later: Another McCain At Center Of A Bank Collapse and Government Take-Over?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mark-nickolas/20-years-later-another-mc_b_115380.html

July 29

Andrew McCain Resigns from Silver State Bank

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jayne-lyn-stahl/andrew-mccain-resigns-fro_b_115233.html

Like father like son - crooks!; July 29, 2008 5:02 PM
suzihussein22 said...: Can we say desperate?-

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/07/barack-obamas-f.html

Here's another article to show how biased the msm is towards Obama.; July 29, 2008 5:37 PM
apissedant said...: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEZlGOy85BE

Soft,
That is terrible, and it keeps making me think of this clip, between 1:20 and 1:45. What a two faced prick.; July 29, 2008 5:58 PM
suzihussein22 said...: peevish-I'll have to go back and watch that video next week. I don't have flash installed right now. I've passed that info about facebook on to the campaign just in case even though I'm sure they're on top of things. I've never seen a more organized campaign.; July 29, 2008 6:49 PM
apissedant said...: soft,
I've never seen a campaign manage to stay positive and stay ahead with such a torrent of garbage pouring in from both Democrats and Republicans.; July 29, 2008 7:09 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: suzihussein22-

July 29, 2008,
6:01 pm

R.N.C. Deletes Comments on Obama Parody Site

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/07/29/rnc-deletes-comments-on-obama-parody-site/

.; July 29, 2008 7:14 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: For all the lawyers and law students that might want to peruse Obama's exams when he was teaching law this link is for you :)

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/07/29/inside-professor-obamas-classroom/

.; July 29, 2008 7:17 PM
apissedant said...: OHMYGODLEAH!!!!!!!

Alex Conant, a spokesman for the R.N.C., said the ultimate goal of scrubbing the Facebook application page was to make sure the content was “consistent with a respectful campaign."; July 29, 2008 7:18 PM
Beryl said...: That site was really a bad move. It was mean spirited and should have been left to the 527s and not the RNC.

I hope it backfires on them.; July 29, 2008 7:23 PM
suzihussein22 said...: api-Yes and I've finally gotten a couple of people to grudgingly admit it. It's "amusing" to hear a particular person, not on this blog, that complains about problems that have definitely been caused by Rep. and then swear "they'll" never vote for any other party. It's not like I follow ideology blindly.; July 29, 2008 7:50 PM
suzihussein22 said...: leah-Thanks for the follow up info on that "respectful parody." Did you see on HuffPo that Mrs. O is in Vanity Fair? She's been voted one of the most stylish. It sounds superficial, but I think it's neat to see somebody there of substance.; July 29, 2008 7:55 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: suzihussein22-

Thanks for the heads up on the Michelle Obama article at HuffPost.

My guess is that Michelle Obama will be one THE MOST photographed First Lady since Jackie Kennedy!

I can barely wait ;); July 29, 2008 8:37 PM
Beryl said...: I agree, Leah. She is not only model tall (5'11") but she has long thin fingers. She is really beautiful even without the makeup.; July 29, 2008 8:44 PM
suzihussein22 said...: leah and beryl-Me too. :)

Has anyone seen this?-

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25921453/

This sounds historic. Actually, I think I'm in shock about it.; July 29, 2008 9:03 PM
Mike in Maryland said...: suzihussein22 said...
Has anyone seen this?-

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25921453/

This sounds historic. Actually, I think I'm in shock about it.

And how does CNN cover this on it's web site? With one of it's 'Quick Vote' polls:

Quick Vote
Government apologies for inhumane policies represent:

1. Acknowledgment of wrongdoings
2. Political posturing
3. Dredging up irrelevant history

And how does the 'public' (actually the brain-dead Reichwingers) vote?

1. 26%
2. 47%
3. 27%

Total of an aware public 'voting'?
122,819

Shame on anyone who thinks this is political posturing. If a Reichwinger comes up to me and asks or demands an apology for anything, I'll be hardpressed to NOT spit in their face.

Mike; July 29, 2008 9:51 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: DCW has posted an updated Presidential Forecast on the front page.

Obama/Sebelius '08

p.s. With all the talk of Kaine, Bayh, and Biden lately I still think that Sebelius is in the running. Picture this:
1) When Obama makes the VP announcement he has Caroline Kennedy (a woman) on stage with him talking about how historic it will be by having Sebelius (a woman) in the White House.

2) Hillary will come out and say that 'she' doesn't want the VP position but has urged Obama to pick a woman and that her pick like Obama's would be Sebelius.

3) Hillary will hit the campaign trail saying that her supporters should vote for the Obama/Sebelius ticket because this will help to break the glass ceiling.; July 29, 2008 11:12 PM
apissedant said...: Leah,
The post article had Sebelius in the top 4. When MSNBC reported on the Post article, it had deleted her from the running. In fairness, she was mentioned a paragraph later than the other 3, but she was still mentioned as a top contender.

There was a list of about 4 others, but they were all listed as long shots. She appears to be pulling up the rear of the top 4, and I don't think Tim Kaine did himself any favors with his press conference today. He made it sound like he was already chosen, which undermines the campaign and makes them wonder if he'll be able to watch his tongue in the future. That was not a good first speech to test the field with.

Not that it completely ends his chances, but as a former volunteer and current supporter of Kaine, I was a bit disappointed. He has never been that great at public speaking, but that was a little worse than usual.

I'm still curious how Edwards fell off the list. He is a great public speaker and very charismatic. He better at least get a cabinet post.

Personally, of the top 4 listed by the Post, Kaine or Sebelius are definitely my choices.; July 29, 2008 11:22 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: apissedant -

I thought so.

Earlier today I saw that article that said: Kaine, Bayh, Biden, and Sebelius. Then went I went back later I didn't see Sebelius' name.

As far as Edwards... I don't think he will be mentioned on the list anymore because of the 'love child' scandal that has been in the papers the last few days. I haven't seen any word from Edwards denying the allegation. The baby should be born in a month or two ... so I am sure the media will be calling for a DNA test - if this isn't resolved by then.; July 29, 2008 11:28 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Someone else (on the short-list) came out a week or so ago and talked to the media about the VP vetting process and said too much and I thought at the time - 'that is the end of you buddy'.... now I can't remember who it was.

I think what the Obama camp might be doing right now is trying to get some MIS-information in the press about who the VP might be - this takes the spotlight off of Hillary and gets everyone talking about other folks.

I still think that the person that Obama is going to pick is going to be someone that has not been talking to the press and that the press has not been talking about too much. Sebelius is still in the running. The only thing she has said regarding the VP position is that all questions of that sort should be directed to the Obama campaign. She IS a team player ;); July 29, 2008 11:34 PM
apissedant said...: leah,
I hadn't heard about that story, but it sounds ridiculous. They all claim they have video and pictures, yet I see none of those... weird. Stupid rumors are so ridiculous and retarded. He isn't Bill Clinton, I have full faith he would have kept it in his pants while he was in the midst of a presidential campaign.; July 29, 2008 11:37 PM
apissedant said...: How sad is it that Republicans are now getting their news from the National Enquirer anyways Leah? It is like Men in Black.; July 29, 2008 11:38 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: How could anyone vote for McCain after watching this video...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/07/29/new-viral-video-gives-mcc_n_115727.html

.; July 29, 2008 11:43 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: apissedant-

It's true that National Enquirer first had the story.
But then FoxNews and I think maybe CNN and HuffPost had something about it too... and I keep going back to look for an update regarding a reply from Edwards and there hasn't been one yet.

So, I think until Edwards comes out and dispels the rumor or confirms it then no one will be talking about Edwards as VP - the issue needs to be cleared up.; July 29, 2008 11:50 PM
apissedant said...: Apparently he had already denied the relationship long ago. I think if he came out every other week to say there was no relationship, well that would make most people think he had a relationship. Sometimes the best way to silence an issue is to ignore it. Kind of like trolls.

http://blogs.houstonpress.com/hairballs/2008/07/edwards_denies_affair_kind_of.php

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2007/10/breaking-news-j.html

His policy of short and terse denials with little fan fair seems to be working. There are more rumors about McCain sleeping with a former aid around than Edwards... perhaps because McCain was too angry and too vocal in his denials.

Remember there is still a Youtube video about Obama having sex with and snorting coke with a gay man in Chicago. I do not recall him ever responding to this allegation, because it was preposterous and not worth his time. He would have only given the story more power by speaking of it.; July 30, 2008 12:11 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: apissedant-

Thanks for the Edwards update.

.; July 30, 2008 12:28 AM
apissedant said...: No prob...
I'm sure we'll hear 1,000 more ridiculous rumors about Obama, McCain, and everyone else that is attached to either campaign before November. Choosing the "leader of the free world" is such a respectable and mature process here in the good ol' US of A.; July 30, 2008 12:40 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Hi everyone. aj; July 30, 2008 12:52 AM
Aunt Jean said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; July 30, 2008 12:52 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: apissedant said: "Remember there is still a Youtube video about Obama having sex with and snorting coke with a gay man in Chicago. I do not recall him ever responding to this allegation,.............."

---

But the Larry Sinclair thing was bogus. A TOTAL LIE. Sinclair failed TWO lie detectors and the story was never played up in the Main Stream Media. And everyone pretty much knows now that Sinclair has mental problems.

The story with Edwards is a bit different since it has been on many of the major websites, so I think Edwards will need to come out and say something regarding the new allegations of the eye-witness at the hotel. He was in LA at the same time as the woman was the other day ... and there were witnesses. Now I do think this 'might' just blow over, but if photos come out in the next few days then it will be a different story.

Anyway, I think this is why we are no longer hearing the possibility of Edwards on the short-list.

.; July 30, 2008 12:54 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: In this article:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/07/29/AR2008072902068.html?hpid=topnews

the last line says:
"Win the election? Didn't he do that already?"
---
My comment is:
If for some reason Senator Obama doesn't win the election - what on earth is he going to do? I really can't see him going back and being a junior senator in the senate. The WORLD is just too much in love with him and fascinated by him. He has already changed the way so many people look at the political system and what we now expect from our government in no way that McCain could ever do. I really can't see him exiting the stage as HRC has and quietly going back to the Senate. I would like to hear ya'lls thoughts on this.; July 30, 2008 1:12 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Tuesday July 29, 2008

National Gallup Tracking
Obama 47, McCain 41
Obama +6.0

Obama '08 and '12; July 30, 2008 1:19 AM
apissedant said...: Just to let everybody know... The Washington Post is continuing its slide into Fox News style reporting... There are two stories on Obama today, and both are garbage. One is about the McCain allegations about Obama not caring about the troops, and it does state that there is no evidence for McCain's claims, but the punch lands very soft. The other article is by a Dana Milbank, and it redefines garbage. Dana actually attacks Obama based on his prayer that he left in the wall in Israel.

Leah,
Yes, Larry Sinclair was a complete nut job, but in this case there is no one claiming an affair. In one case your only witness was nuts, in the other case you have no witnesses. How can 0 witnesses ever trump 1 witness? The source is apparently an unnamed friend of the girl, and there is no evidence of an affair, nor of who this friend is, nor of how she would possibly know. That is 0.; July 30, 2008 1:36 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: apissedant -

No no no no .. there was a witness in the NEW news story...

Security Guard Confirms John Edwards in Hotel

foxnews.com — A hotel security guard told FOXNews.com he intervened this week between a man he identified as former Sen. John Edwards and tabloid reporters who chased down the former presidential hopeful after what they're calling a rendezvous with his mistress and love child.
----

This is the stuff that was in the news story THIS week that came out.; July 30, 2008 1:43 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: apissedant-

Here ya go:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,391426,00.html

AND

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/07/25/national-enquirers-john-e_n_115062.html

All of this was in the news this past FRIDAY.

.; July 30, 2008 1:49 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: apissedant-

Can you please post a link to the Dana Milbank PRAYER article I can't find it.

I read this one by Dana Milbank earlier and asked for comments above regarding 'what will Obama do if he doesn't win' :

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/07/29/AR2008072902068.html?hpid=topnews

Thanks :); July 30, 2008 2:08 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: In my opinion this is something that everyone should read:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/william-bradley/13-things-to-know-about-t_b_115740.html

.; July 30, 2008 2:52 AM
Mike in Maryland said...: At Pollster.com, there is a discussion how Gallup came up with it's classification of 'likely voter'.

After determining whether the respondent is a registered voter, Gallup asks 3 questions, giving one point for an affirmative response to each:

1. How much thought have you given to the upcoming election for president -- quite a lot, or only a little? (quite a lot or volunteer "some" = 1 point)

2. How often would you say you vote -- always, nearly always, part of the time, or seldom? (always or nearly always = 1 point)

3. Do you, yourself, plan to vote in the presidential election this November, or not? ("yes" = 1 point)

If a respondent's answers total less than 3, Gallup determines that that respondent is NOT a likely voter. Using this model gets Gallup to about 60% of registered voters, his assumption for turnout in November, and the same as in 2004.

Gallup is assuming that past voting patterns will prevail this year - newly registered is unlikely to vote. You can see how a first time voter (college student, first time registered AA, etc.), even if they answer question 1 and 3 in the affirmative, would not get the point for 2. Thus Gallup would say that that person is not a likely voter, even if the reason they registered was in order to vote for a specific candidate.

Full discussion at Pollster.com is at:
http://www.pollster.com/blogs/likely_voters_2008_the_sequel.php

Mike; July 30, 2008 3:53 AM
apissedant said...: Sorry Leah, it was the front page of my Washington Post.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/07/29/AR2008072902068.html?hpid=topnews

It is a long story about all the reasons why Obama is presumptuous and arrogant. The prayer is listed as a reason why he is a hypocrite.; July 30, 2008 7:33 AM
apissedant said...: Leah,
Even the Fox News story said that Edwards was not in the police report, that the security guard did not recognize him, that the press did not have any photos, that no room was booked under her name, and that she claims another man is the father, and that other man also claims that he is the father. That other man is also married and also has children and also worked on John's staff.

The unnamed friend that may or may not exist doesn't even state that her and John had sex, just said her friend is in love with John. Well.... again, that sounds like a whole lot of no evidence. This couldn't hold up as proper bathroom wall material let alone real evidence.; July 30, 2008 3:22 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: apissedant-

Thanks for the link.
That is the same link that I posted about yesterday but I didn't know that was the one regarding 'the prayer' - I had thought you were talking about some other article that was 'more' about the prayer.

.; July 30, 2008 3:42 PM
apissedant said...: By the way, Republicans are now claiming that Obama released his prayer to the press. It is not true, but that is the current Republican claim. I'd show links, but there is no point, a Google search will gives you all sides of the argument, and the truth if you click enough links.; July 30, 2008 3:42 PM
apissedant said...: Oh, sorry Leah, I must have missed your post on that one. I was just annoyed, two front page stories about Obama and McCain in the post... one finds proof that McCain is lying, yet still hits him really really soft on the issue, and the other completely makes up stuff about Obama. And this, from the supposed, "liberal" press. I'd hate to see what I'd find at the Washington Times.; July 30, 2008 3:44 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: WashingPost MIS-quotes Obama

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/07/30/iwashington-posti-fans-ou_n_115861.html

FAKE QUOTE:

"This is the moment . . . that the world is waiting for," adding: "I have become a symbol of the possibility of America returning to our best traditions."

CORRECT QUOTE:

"It has become increasingly clear in my travel, the campaign, that the crowds, the enthusiasm, 200,000 people in Berlin, is not about me at all. It's about America. I have become a symbol of the possibility of America returning to our best traditions."

--; July 30, 2008 3:49 PM
Beryl said...: "WashingPost MIS-quotes Obama"

Call them. email them. Complain.

I did.; July 30, 2008 4:13 PM
jean said...: Ap and Leah,
Sometimes you REALLY have to remember what is going around you
in life.
The two top stories in video on CNN.
1. FACE OF JESUS IN KITTEN'S FUR.

2. QUAKE SHAKES JUDGE JUDY.

Bias, improper reporting, and sensationalism is ACCEPTED as the norm.

Anything to make money in a poor economy.
Since there is a general belief that things will not turn around till the later part of 2009 there is a possibility this will be the ugliest election ever.
I think we are going to see things we only dreamed of.
Perhaps the saddest part is that todays young teenagers and young college students will think that this is normal.
jean; July 30, 2008 4:17 PM
Mike in Maryland said...: Seem that California Attorney-General Jerry Brown has angered the supporters of proposition 8, the ballot initiative that would amend the state constitution to state that 'a marriage shall consist of one man and one woman.'

The Attorney-General's office is tasked with preparing the title and summary of each measure on the state ballot. Brown has decided that prop 8 will be titled "Eliminates Right of Same-Sex Couples to Marry" and the description to read "Changes California Constitution to eliminate the right of same-sex couples to marry. Provides that only marriage between a man and a woman is valid or recognized in California. Fiscal Impact: Over next few years, potential revenue loss, mainly sales taxes, totaling in the several tens of millions of dollars, to state and local governments. In the long run, likely little fiscal impact on state and local governments."

The prop 8 supporters have gone to court, saying that AG Brown is 'trying to stack the deck against [prop 8]' and the language is 'prejudicial'.

Seems to be a bit of hypocrisy coming from the prop 8 backers, since the ballot initiative, in it's intent, is prejudicial.

More details at:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/07/29/BASO121RRI.DTL&type=politics

Mike; July 30, 2008 4:54 PM
jean said...: mike in maryland,
It seems to me that it is concise and directly to the point and easily understood for the average individual.
It seems to me also Jerry Brown is having more fun than he has in years;)
jean; July 30, 2008 5:29 PM
apissedant said...: Mike,
Not to mention how these propositions have been marketed in the rest of the country. Here in Virginia, it was marketed on the ballot as, "Ban Same-Sex Marriage." Despite the fact that same sex marriage was already banned by two other laws, and the amendment also banned any other protections, rights, privileges, or responsibilities that are given to married couples from being give to anyone that was not married. It banned civil unions, common law marriages, and tons of other contractual arrangements between adults.

This one actually states all facts, just in a way they don't like, so it is prejudicial. The way they write it states no facts, but states it the way they want, so it is ok. NICE!; July 30, 2008 5:35 PM
suzihussein22 said...: jean-levity-

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/07/30/cheech-and-chong-reunite_n_115793.html

Dave, you in there? Smokin!; July 30, 2008 7:35 PM
jean said...: suzi,
Priceless.
That Pot Legalization is now being brought up, AGAIN, is quite entertaining.
They are one of my favorites.
jean; July 30, 2008 8:18 PM
suzihussein22 said...: jean-Rockin! I hope the pot legalization gets "rollin" this time. There's just something about how our jails get filled sometimes.; July 30, 2008 8:23 PM
suzihussein22 said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; July 30, 2008 8:24 PM
Independent Voter said...: Hey jean, yes I'm still pokin' my head in here every now and then. I saw things got a little heated yesterday....LOL.....AGAIN!

I have been working on my online classes, and helping my brother with an online class he is taking. He is a genius when it comes to numbers, mechanics, and engineering, but can't write a paper worth a damn. So over the past week, he's been e-mailing me his paper, and I'm making a few tweeks here and there to make it more fluid and things such as citing other people's work, etc. This is the last class he needs in order to get his degree, and had kept putting it off until now. He finally took me up on my offer to help him get through it. So, that's what I've pretty much been working on.

I've been watching the typical pundit talking shows on MSNBC, and who TF is the guy filling in for Matthews? He is a total dweeb. And since when does he get 3 weeks off anyway? He was gone for 2 back for one and then gone again this week? WTH is going on over there? LOL; July 30, 2008 8:34 PM
apissedant said...: Dave,
You're neglecting your blogging duties.; July 30, 2008 8:41 PM
suzihussein22 said...: iv dave-Gotta love academia! :) Congratulations to your brother.; July 30, 2008 8:45 PM
Independent Voter said...: Bad Dave, Bad Dave. Can't forget the blog duties. :)

Suzi, very true. Gotta love it. His most recent paper is due tonight, and we finally finished it this afternoon. He has a short one page prospectus due tomorrow. I'm waiting on him to shoot it over to me so I can take a look at it. And then his final paper is going to be due on Monday next week. I'm hoping he will get it to me by Saturday so I can work through it. My online classes finish up on Tuesday, but I should be able to finish all the work required for them by Friday. And then I start my final two summer classes (4 week classes) on Monday....UGH.

Did everyone hear about a spokesman for Mc"Needs A"Cain said that "John McCain doesn't speak for the McCain campaign?"

ROFL! How would someone not speak for themself? As Rachel Maddow asked, "If he isn't going to speak for himself, then how is he going to run the White House?" Is he going to have Cheney running it for him?; July 30, 2008 8:55 PM
Independent Voter said...: UGH!

Mc"Needs A"Cain has now flipped again!

First, 2001 - "votes no on tax cuts"
then - No new taxes (2007)
then - nothing is off the table (regarding increasing payroll taxes - This week with George S this past weekend)
And now - he's back to no new taxes.

HUH! How many times is this guy going to flip on this issue?; July 30, 2008 9:00 PM
Beryl said...: McFlip will change his mind as many times as it takes to realize the desired outcome.

He approved the LYING campaign ads after saying that he wasn't going to go negative.

McCain no longer has honor. He has destroyed his legacy.; July 30, 2008 9:18 PM
apissedant said...: I feel like posting the old McCain every day now, sorry for those who actually have seen the YOU TUBE video and are tired of it, but it still amazes me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEZlGOy85BE

Between 1:20 and 1:40; July 30, 2008 9:38 PM
jean said...: Indy,
Me?????????????
Heated????????????
Like Ap is an innocent;)

Suzi,
Chong was on the local station promoting his tour.
LEVITY;)
His t-shirt said.

HEMP IS ROPE
BUSH IS A DOPE

Gotta love it.
jean; July 30, 2008 9:52 PM
apissedant said...: Jean,
No way! Just because I'm a Democrat does not mean I'll take responsibility for my actions! I'm a conservative when it comes to personal responsibility, I take no blame. :); July 30, 2008 9:57 PM
suzihussein22 said...: jean-LOL! Smoke 'em if you got em', except you apissedant! You should take responsibility for that pledge, you bleeding liberal! :D; July 30, 2008 10:06 PM
suzihussein22 said...: peevish-Your baby looks cuter than you already, must take after mum! Awww!; July 30, 2008 10:26 PM
apissedant said...: soft,
LOL, thanks... and hopefully he or she does. My wife and I are both 6 foot, so hopefully he/she can become a professional athlete or a model at 18 and we can retire at 46 and coast. ;)

'Cause that's how we should look at our children, as investments and lottery tickets. :); July 30, 2008 10:39 PM
Mike in Maryland said...: From politicalwire.com's "Bonus Quote of the day":

I think there's some great people he could choose from and I expect he will do that. But I don't plan on being part of the ticket.

'-- Mitt Romney, in an interview with WILM-AM, on Sen. John McCain's runnning [sic] mate.'

First, is this Romney trying to play coy, or an honest statement? Or he found out he won't be McLame's VP choice, so he's trying to save face?

Second, 'runnning'? Either PoliticalWire.com doesn't have a dictionary in the office, or doesn't know how to find 'dictionary.com' on the Internet.

Mike; July 30, 2008 10:44 PM
jean said...: ap,
Investment is the correct term.
Returns are a differenct matter;0
Aging you is another.
LEVITY:)
jean; July 30, 2008 10:45 PM
jean said...: Someone take care of the Obama.

I AM NOT WORTHY!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sorry, saw Wayne's World the other day.
jean; July 30, 2008 11:03 PM
Richard said...: OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA '08; July 30, 2008 11:07 PM
jean said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; July 30, 2008 11:10 PM
jean said...: Thanks rich:)
jean; July 30, 2008 11:12 PM
Independent Voter said...: LOL jean and p'd ant. Now you're arguing over who is responsible for the conversation getting heated.

By the way jean, I didn't say who was responsible....LOL

----

Hmmmmm, look at kids as an investment and hope for a good return......hmmmmmm, I'll take my chances in reamining childless. Thanks. I've got nieces and nephews to spoil :)

One of our nieces are coming out here on Wednesday, and we are going to six flag......YAY! What can I say, I love roller coaster.

---

Jean, what did you think of our little shaker yesterday? Bill was upset, he was driving when it took place....LOL. He's so pissed, because we have had 3 that we have felt down here, and he hasn't felt any of them. 2 of them he was driving and the other he was out of town.; July 30, 2008 11:17 PM
Independent Voter said...: Oh ya, great job rich; July 30, 2008 11:18 PM
Independent Voter said...: Don't you all just love these attack ads by Mc"Needs A"Cain.

I love it because it gives Obama the chance to attack back with a contrast ad that calls McCain Childish, low-road (via someone else's words).

I also like the implied statement in the ad also.....John McCain, SAME OLD Politics. SAME FAILED Policies.

I emphasized SAME OLD and SAME FAILED......because it not only links him to Bush and Washington, but also emphasizes that McCain is OLD.; July 30, 2008 11:23 PM
apissedant said...: Dave,
LOL, this week's newsweek has an editorial you would like. Anna Quindlen argues how out of touch McCain is, and that electing someone who doesn't know how to check their email to run the world during the internet generation is not a good idea. It is called, "The Techie in Chief."; July 30, 2008 11:39 PM
Independent Voter said...: Thanks p'd ant. UGH!!!!!! Thanks for the HORRIBLE visual! She wrote When McCain was asked to avow Mac or PC and replied "neither"—a totally great response if the question had been "boxers or briefs?"

I SOOOOOOOOOOOOOO could have done without that sentence.; July 31, 2008 12:01 AM
apissedant said...: Obama's responses have been honest and swift. He has not gotten overly involved in attacking McCain, and has still devoted most of his time to promoting his positive message. This is the proper way to go about it. Letting the rumors stew is never good, because you look weak, and as Leah showed so well last night, if people don't hear or see you deny it, then they assume it is true.
At the same time, Obama has a responsibility to himself and his supporters to keep with his well established strategy. This means focusing on a positive campaign that details what he plans to do and why we should vote for him. The fact that he is spending so little time hitting back is important in order to not compromise his message. So far, he has found a very good balance, and I hope he is able to maintain that balance.

I'm just waiting for the Press Corps to finally settle on a balance. More and more, I'm seeing the Press pick a side and then essentially report from that side. Keith was a breath of fresh air in that he complained about Obama asking McCain for a duel.

Most of the press has sided with McCain in their articles, even though most of them will probably vote Obama. They are so fearful of being labeled pro-Obama that they are continually pulling punches on McCain, and manufacturing negative stories or circulating rumors about Obama. I am continually more disappointed with the Press with each passing day.

JUST REPORT THE STORY! NO SPIN, NO FEAR OF BEING LABELED PRO-OBAMA OR PRO-MCCAIN, just HONEST REPORTING! If one lies, say the lie, if one makes a gaffe, say they made a gaffe, if one proposes a policy that all the experts find terrible, say so! Why is that so hard?; July 31, 2008 12:06 AM
Independent Voter said...: p'd ant...what is that so hard?

If they did that they wouldn't have any viewers and would lose their advertisers which means they lose money. I still can't believe that Bill O'Really claims the phrase "No Spin Zone". He's the BIGGEST spinner of all.; July 31, 2008 12:15 AM
apissedant said...: Dave,
I'm not even talking the television version, because the television version is for people who don't really care anyways, or have already made up their mind and don't care to hear anything but the point they've already decided on.

The Washington Post however, has a long history of being a great source of REAL, HONEST NEWS. They would still have readers if they didn't publish the garbage from both the left and the right. There was absolutely no reason to switch to this crap, yet they did. They don't have to compete with Fox News or MSNBC, because they have a completely different subscription base.; July 31, 2008 12:22 AM
Matt said...: Hey all, hows it going? Seems a little calmer in the thread the last couple of days. We're keeping an eye on things. Thanks everyone for participating here. - The Mgmt; July 31, 2008 12:39 AM
Richard said...: It's much nicer since the trolls have been banished, Matt. Thank you.

Back on topic: I wonder how Paris Hilton and Britney Spears feel about being used in a John McCain ad. If I were their agents I would have a cease-and-desist letter on his desk already.; July 31, 2008 12:48 AM
Vicki in Seattle said...: have the trolls been banished? all 3.1415 of them?; July 31, 2008 12:58 AM
Beryl said...: Britney supports McLame.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/morgan-warners/britney-spears-for-mccain_b_115976.html

Paris supposedly donated to his campaign. (Don't have a link.)

Hopefully, McBoring's negative ads will backfire big time.; July 31, 2008 1:19 AM
Mike in Maryland said...: According to the LA Times, "[Y]ou better be careful who you make fun of. Paris' Mommy and Daddy, Richard and Kathleen Hilton, have each given $2,300 to the McCain campaign."

And TMZ.com reports "Paris' Parents to McCain: How Dare You"

Times article:
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2008/07/paris-hilton-br.html

TMZ.com article:
http://www.tmz.com/2008/07/30/paris-parents-to-mccain-how-dare-you/

Mike; July 31, 2008 1:25 AM
Beryl said...: One of the bloggers posted this:

"Hey Senator McCain:
Are you SURE you want to go negative? Do you want an ad asking people to google the following:?
"Ace McCain"
Keating Five McCain
Wet Start McCain
Songbird McCain
Lowest 1% McCain

You're lucky, the Obama campaign has not encouraged people to look into your past."

Some of this stuff I didn't know namely the "Songbird", "Wet Start", and "Ace" references.

People have been very respectful to McCain despite all of this in his past.; July 31, 2008 1:43 AM
Mike in Maryland said...: Maybe the next time he's in town, someone needs to hold up a sign that says "Ace McCain".

Better yet, if someone can slip into a McLame town hall meeting, they should ask him about the "Ace McCain" label and ask him to explain exactly how he got that moniker.

It would be fun to see if he could keep his dander in check!

VBG

Mike; July 31, 2008 2:00 AM
Mike in Maryland said...: We've all heard that constant meme from the Neanderthals that Senator 'Obama is the MOST liberal in the Senate.'

That meme is based on the National Journal (Republican rag) ranking of how each Senator voted on certain bills, and how that vote, in the National Journal's opinion should be ranked on a conservative/liberal basis. Not the reason for the vote, just a pure 's/he voted a certain way, therefore here's the rating.'

Josh Patashnik, in a New Republic article titled "Taking Liberalties" shows "Why the 'most liberal' rankings are a crock."

Worth a read. By the way, McLame, because he's missed more than 50% of the votes on which the National Journal bases it's ratings for the current, 110th, Congress, isn't rated.

http://www.tnr.com/politics/story.html?id=08c25e0a-9b88-49a6-97f5-45114f3fff28

Mike; July 31, 2008 3:01 AM
apissedant said...: I would like to remind everyone that we're not Republicans, and we have more respect for our political process, our military veterans, our nation, each other, and ourselves to spread stupid rumors and denigrate the honorable service of one of our veterans. The Keating Five, the bottom 1%, and possibly the Ace are valid insults, but the other two are below the standards which we can say without bringing dishonor on himself. I just looked at the flight deck layout of McCain's ship, and there is no way he caused the fire with a wet start. As far as the "songbird" thing goes, he was the son and grandson of two very famous Naval Admirals, so of course the Vietnamese used him to discredit our nation and our military.

Yes, he did lose 5 jets, 4 of which he was flying at the time.
Yes, he was a key player in the savings and loan scandal.
Yes, he did very poorly at the academy, and how he made it into flight school with those marks is questionable.

Other than that, these unsubstantiated rumors should not be repeated by us. We are above that. They were all started by the far right, the same people that assailed Kerry for his service. I will NOT pass along and give more air to any garbage that those unAmerican neocons say, and I would hope all of those here would join me in that. I respect all of the posters here, and I would hope that we can all maintain a level of conversation that deserves that respect.

Yes, McCain is making terrible and completely unsubstantiated claims against Obama, and that is terrible, but Obama is keeping the high ground, and we should too. Not only would winning by lying and spreading rumors be a hollow victory, but it is completely unnecessary. We are winning by all accounts, so why would we even consider sinking to their level?

McCain's policy ideas are terrible. He has shown a complete lack of understanding of how our government works, and a complete lack of vision for the future. He has consistently lied and dishonored himself with his performance during this campaign. He has continually asserted the continuation of Bush's legacy, which is disliked by nearly 70% of our nation. This is all fair game, and is more than enough to destroy him in November. Let's keep this campaign on the issues that matter, and the issues that are true.; July 31, 2008 3:18 AM
apissedant said...: Mike in Md,
I read that, and it was a good read. From what the author states, anytime a Democrat runs for President, they automatically become the most liberal Senator, because they miss too many votes. Kerry vaulted from the most liberal Senator 4 years ago, to the 23 most liberal this year, weird how he shifted so much without shifting at all.; July 31, 2008 3:20 AM
apissedant said...: And I'm sorry if I sound preachy, and I realize that I'm the youngster of this group, but I really think we are a more respectful and intelligent group than spreading some of these rumors would have others believe. Matt has been so kind to delete the unsubstantiated and bigoted conservative rumors for us, let's not replace them with unsubstantiated and bigoted liberal rumors.

I honestly had problems with the cunt rumors with McCain, and some of the more torrid rumors about HRC and Bill during the primaries. None of these items were properly substantiated for them to be considered facts, and there were more than enough actual facts to come to the correct conclusion, so there was no need to use these. I made my views known, but not as explicitly has I have on this issue, because this one really strikes a chord. This one is really low, and began with the same people who we despise and constantly claim are lying, dispicable people. To say this about them, and then use their "information," would make us no better than John McCain standing next to the swift boat prick. We are most definitely better than that.; July 31, 2008 3:31 AM
Mike in Maryland said...: AP,

On the 'Ace McCain' item, it would be interesting to hear his response - how would he defend losing 5 airplanes, especially one not in combat? Not as an accusation, but as an 'exploratory' question.

There is an explanation he could present in a very measured and level tone. But there also is the [danger for him] real possibility that he could lose his temper, which would show the American voter what type of Commander in Chief they were thinking of voting for. Remember, his previous nickname among Naval aviators was "McNasty" for his evil temper.

If he can't explain the 'Ace McCain' in a reasoned tone and keep his cool (which he should be able, but chances are that he couldn't), the race could be over at that instant. Look at how he became nonplussed and had to control his temper when asked about the birth-control vs. Viagra question.

Senator Obama is NOT the person to ask the question. That would be for someone else, and not someone directly linked to the Obama campaign.

Mike; July 31, 2008 4:44 AM
apissedant said...: Mike,
On that I can agree. Although I believe 4 of them were not lost in combat, one being the one lost to the fire/missile on the ship which was unarguably not his fault.; July 31, 2008 5:11 AM
Richard said...: I did not know that about Britney and Paris. By all means, then, let him associate himself with these two to his heart's content. I do not think it will help him.; July 31, 2008 12:10 PM
jean said...: Waiting for the Clean-up crew.
Sorry Matt, what a pain in the behind:)
jean; July 31, 2008 12:49 PM
Vicki in Seattle said...: some people just show up to spoil the party, because they can.; July 31, 2008 12:58 PM
jean said...: vicki,
How do you contact matt?
jean; July 31, 2008 1:04 PM
jean said...: PLEASE,
No troll feeding ALLOWED.
jean; July 31, 2008 1:08 PM
tmess2 said...: The first estimates of GDP from the second quarter were released today. For the eighth quarter in a row, real investment in residential housing declined.

The revisions to past quarters show negative growth in GDP in the fourth quarter of 2007.

The last quarter shows an increase in GDP, but the increase was less than the amount of the stimulus rebate. Which raises the question of what does the government do next to avoid slipping into a recession since the stimulus checks can only be cashed once.; July 31, 2008 2:32 PM
Richard said...: Never remove a post because of politics and alternate point of view.

That's Discrimination, and is against the Law of the Land.

I'm sorry to be feeding the trolls, but I just can't resist correcting this complete misrepresentation of the law. Even if Matt were removing posts "because of politics and alternate point of view," he would be perfectly within his rights as the owner and editor of this site. Not only is it not "Discrimination," it is not a violation of anyone's rights or the "Law of the Land."

The Constitution protects your rights to say or publish any point of view without government interference; it does not create in anyone an obligation to listen to or read your views, and certainly not to help you disseminate your views using their own resources.; July 31, 2008 2:48 PM
jean said...: rich,
Did you see the?????.
That is bait and you were the hook line and sinker.
You are better than that but I cannot throw a stone from my own glass house.
LOL
jean; July 31, 2008 3:06 PM
Richard said...: Jean, my weakness is that I can't let ridiculous misrepresentations of law and important rights go by without responding. I realize that this is a weakness that trolls can exploit, but it is part of who I am.; July 31, 2008 3:13 PM
jean said...: rich,
#1 objective is to TRY to get rid of Trolls.
Every single individual on this blog is guilty of feeding.
I asked the question of how to contact Matt or Oreo.
I have searched the blog but cannot figure it out.
I did try mike in maryland:)
Perhaps that is meant to be.
Do you know?
jean; July 31, 2008 3:21 PM
Vicki in Seattle said...: LOL at you two! sorry, I don't know how to get a message to Matt. I do know that I need to go off and run some errands.

see you both later!; July 31, 2008 3:22 PM
jean said...: Thank you vicki for your support.
;););););)
jean
Does anyone know?; July 31, 2008 3:32 PM
jean said...: Ok,
Last thing on this subject.

Do I need to dig out the red glass slippers in my closet and put them on and click my heels 3 times?

Technology doesn't always have the answers;)
jean; July 31, 2008 3:43 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Vicki -

On the right side of this page it says:

Email us at dem con watch -at- google groups dot com

Hope that helps.; July 31, 2008 4:01 PM
jean said...: Thank you leah,
Is there a particular reason that you could not respond to me?
jean; July 31, 2008 4:15 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: jean -

I read the posts upwards and seen her post and responded to it.

I don't really think it matters whose name was on the answer as long as the info was posted.; July 31, 2008 5:13 PM
jean said...: Matt,
Thanks;)
jean; July 31, 2008 5:49 PM
apissedant said...: Hey jean,
How is your day? Looks like I missed a post from our favorite son. Seems to be all cleared up now though.

Bush is trumping that the GDP grew by 1.5%, yet almost all of this is attributed to the 100 billion dollars in rebate checks, meaning no effective growth. Economists, normally the optimists of the crowd, are saying that this growth was largely due to foreign exports, which we cannot expect to continue growing. In the end, it seems there is no good news, as most of us expected. Another year or so and we will hopefully be digging ourselves out of this ditch.; July 31, 2008 6:09 PM
Richard said...: I must say that it is nice to be able to have intelligent discussion with you folks without it being taken over by irrelevancies. What's the current status of the EV pool, Leah? I am so torn. I said 304, but I think MO may go for McCain. If that's the case, 293 is the number. In either case, we win.; July 31, 2008 6:25 PM
suzihussein22 said...: in the news-

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080731/ap_en_tv/nbc_news_luke_russert;_ylt=AkQSDTRRCkgK8Ewq9VecSV5xFb8C

The son of Tim Russert will be covering the youth of the conventions.; July 31, 2008 6:44 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Rich -

Here is the final line-up...

stop0 - < 251
JayW - 269
Beryl - 280
Hippolytus - 289
Dilbuck - 290
softspoken22 - 298
Emma - 300 (1)
Aunt Jean - 300 (2)
SarahLawrenceScott - 303
Richard - 304
jean - 311
Mike in Maryland - 312
tmess2 - 315
RobH - 317 (1)
apissedant - 317 (2)
Oregon Dem - 332
Leah - 345
Woodland Sprite - 360
Emit R Detsaw - 429
Independent voter - 538

Anyone that had submitted an early guess will be allowed to add (but not change) a second guess October 1st - 3rd. The early guess will be our main contest. The second guess will be considered a separate contest.; July 31, 2008 6:47 PM
jean said...: Ap,
Yes there were several.
Let me see................
rich responded,reminded me of you,
rich that is not a negative:0
vicki laughed at me, nothing new,
leah responded and gave good info for reaching matt(I don't think she likes me), matt took care of it and he does not mind if we contact him about this(he is over it) and now we can have civil discussions even when we do not agree.

According to what I read they revised 2007 lower and the stimulus did not do what they thought it would do.
Things are not good but mortgage rates went down today,I know because I priced and the 10year bond is below 4 now, and the kids worked in the yard and I am doing good.

How was your day?
jean; July 31, 2008 6:47 PM
apissedant said...: jean,
My day has been ok. Not too much going on, although I think my steam cleaner has cleaned its last carpet. :(

Anyone who thought the rebate was going to do anything other than provide an immediate and tiny spike that would disappear as soon as it arrived was retarded. Borrowing and spending does not fix anything, years of history have clearly shown that. Investing that 100 billion in industry and technology that would have created jobs would have created a much more lasting impact, even if it did not give an immediate boost.

As long as our leaders continue looking for quick fixes and our citizens keep looking for instant gratification... our society and our way of life will continue to deteriorate. We need to heed the lessons of Alexander Hamilton, Abraham Lincoln, Theodore Roosevelt, and Franklin Delano Roosevelt. These men put making the right choices over making the popular choices, and we have wandered far from their teachings.

Barack Obama resisting calls for more drilling and the gas tax holiday was a good start, but it'll take a lot more than that.; July 31, 2008 7:27 PM
jean said...: Ap,
I am fixing a couple dozen stuffed green peppers and may dissapear.

We are in a bind.
The stimulus gave attention to people that thought they were forgotten.
At this point a mental boost is very important.
Looking at the trillions this is nothing.
I am willing to make a bet that it will happen SOON.
jean; July 31, 2008 7:32 PM
Independent Voter said...: p'd ant - I think you may want to revise one of your statements, "Another year or so and we will hopefully be digging ourselves out of this ditch."

First rule, if you're in a hole you don't want to get deeper into, stop digging. :)

My suggestion would be, "Another year or so and we will hopefully be crawling out of this ditch."; July 31, 2008 7:39 PM
jean said...: ap,
Steam cleaning carpets.
I am doing that tomorrow LOL.
Sorry yours died.
Maybe something is stuck?
Happened too many times because of too many kids:)
jean; July 31, 2008 7:39 PM

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