Democratic Convention Watch: Open Thread

Tuesday, April 01, 2008

Open Thread

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Who's going to win, who has a better chance against McCain, or whatever else is on your mind.

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4317 comments:

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jpsedona said...: apissedant,

As I said in my post about the fairtax, I am also skeptical that high income earners pay their fair share. But I am very familiar with the fair tax (and comparison to the alternative flat tax).

However, I think that there are many elements of the fair tax proposal that have merit. Eliminating the IRS, tax prep companies, tax law & tax courts, and a ton of accountants focused on taxes (and tax loopholes) sounds good to me.

I also think replacing the current payroll tax system is good for employers, employees and in particular self employed. AND, instead of placing Social Security into an imaginary 'trust fund', lets incorporate it into the Fed budget as it's really used.

by the way the fair tax is 23% (tax-inclusive rate) not 30%.; May 30, 2008 7:31 PM
jpsedona said...: Amot,

Better confirm that they don't substitute woody allen instead!; May 30, 2008 7:32 PM
greywolf said...: I say forget the income tax.. go on a national sales tax. 4.5 % on all goods except major appliances, furniture 1.5%, 1% on vehicles, rv, boats, tractors, trucks..ect.
The more you buy the more tax you pay and everyone pays a fair share.
Exception, seniors over 65 dont pay sales tax except on major purchases of vehicles, rv, boats ect..; May 30, 2008 7:38 PM
greywolf said...: how do you think the german government pays for all its social programs. They dont have a income tax but they pay a national sales tax on all purchases at a rate of 11% except on furniture, vehicles, major appliances ect..; May 30, 2008 7:40 PM
greywolf said...: they pay 2% on all furniture, major appliances, vehicles.. ect.
and they only pay 4.5 on food purchases. everything else is at 11%; May 30, 2008 7:42 PM
Amot said...: JPS,
not a chance, I really hate that guy :) I will bring it to the court if they use him without my approval :)

BTW who was going to play Leah?; May 30, 2008 7:42 PM
greywolf said...: So whats everyone take on this priest thing and Obama. Will it hurt him?

Personally I think it is all media hype for ratings. I would hate to beheld accountable for everything someone says that I know. That is pure bull. The catholic church is really giving Obama a hard time over this.; May 30, 2008 7:45 PM
jpsedona said...: grey,

A few questions for ya on Germany:

1) What percentage of their budget is used to pay the interest on national debt?
2) What percentage of their budget is for their military?
3) What percentage of their budget is given away to foreign countries?

The fair tax is a bit different than a VAT but there are similarities to what you describe.; May 30, 2008 7:47 PM
jpsedona said...: wolf,

I was amused but then again I do not like Hillary (and find too much truth in the message). Connecting Obama to him is beyond comprehension.; May 30, 2008 7:49 PM
tmess2 said...: My hunch says that the presentations from the Obama campaign will carry a lot of weight with the RBC.

The staff memo raised four points that would give Obama grounds to object to the proposals from the two states, but only gives Clinton one ground to object.

1) Method of allocating delegates -- the memo is not too sure about the validity of the primaries but is unsure how to validly allocate if you ignore the primaries. It also raises issue of whether you can allocate half-delegates (i.e. award full delegates with half-votes) or if you have to cut the size of the delegation in half.

2) Validity of selection process for delegates already selected -- the memo emphasizes the absence of review by Obama over "his" Florida delegates and the lack of review by anyone over the Michigan uncommitted delegates

3) Selection of delegates particularly in Michigan -- the memo discusses the need for some shared right of review.

If Obama's representatives state that they can live with the current delegations, allocated on the results of the two primaries,and have an agreement regarding the shared right of review, it seems that the RBC will quickly move to how much to penalize the two states with the process issues put to the side. (As such concessions would eliminate the one valid Clinton objection -- the 69-59 proposal.)

If Obama wants to re-open delegate selection or objects to using primary results, it could be a long afternoon.; May 30, 2008 7:56 PM
greywolf said...: grey,

A few questions for ya on Germany:

1) What percentage of their budget is used to pay the interest on national debt?
2) What percentage of their budget is for their military?
3) What percentage of their budget is given away to foreign countries?

The fair tax is a bit different than a VAT but there are similarities to what you describe.

TO BE HONEST..

I have no idea. I only know the tax rates because my daughter lives there. However they do put 12% of the budget goes to social programs, social medicine, welfare ect. There social medicine program is to die for. When you reach the age of 65 you get two 3 weeks trips to a health spa, your given great meals, a complete physical head to toe, all medical expenses are paid regardless of age and it applies to everyone.; May 30, 2008 8:05 PM
tmess2 said...: As to Puerto Rico, based on the 55-38 poll result, and applying your typical last second voters supporting Senator Clinton method for splitting the undecideds, I am seeing a vote of around 60-40.

That gives a 3-2 split in the two five-delegate districts, a 7-5 split of the at-large, and a 4-3 split of the PLEOs (running total 17-12). Unfortunately it puts it right on the splits for the five four-delegate districts and in the one six-delegate district. I am going to be cautious and give 3 of the 5 districts as a 3-1 split (and 2-2 in the other 2) and split the six-delegate district as a 4-2 for a final split of 34-21.

I am also expecting Obama to pick up the add-on from Maine and 1 more pledged delegate above the estimate from Maine (either from District 2 or from the at-large).; May 30, 2008 8:05 PM
greywolf said...: my two grand kids were born there. It cost not one penny, and she was given 7 days of rest in the hospital, and 2 weeks with in home help after each child was born. It was all paid.

My daughter was born in Germany, and it was the same way then that it is now. It was amazing. Her mother came home and someone came into the house from 6 to 5 took care of the house, meals, laundry, and helped with the babies when she rested. talking about great.; May 30, 2008 8:09 PM
greywolf said...: tmess

I have it

22 obama
35 Clinton; May 30, 2008 8:12 PM
greywolf said...: jpsedona

I watched the video of the Priest.. and I thought I was at a comedy roast or SNL.. it was a hoot. I LMAO.. it was so funny.

What is sad about it he only voiced what most were thinking except most of us were not thinking in racial terms.; May 30, 2008 8:15 PM
greywolf said...: without breaking it down..I also gave

Obama 9 in MT
8 in SD; May 30, 2008 8:19 PM
suzihussein22 said...: Someone wondered who might portray Leah in a sitcom-based on the description of Italian and feisty-Monica Belluci(sp?)-she looks older than Leah sounds though-

http://www.freshdames.com/images/uploads/monica_bellucci_2.jpg

Tina Fey could play Aunt Jean since she described herself as petite.

I know, I'm setting myself up for a comparison now. :); May 30, 2008 8:26 PM
PRDude said...: Hey guys,

Been away from a while. Thought I'd chime in from the tropics since tommorrow is Primaries' Eve....

I predicted a while ago that the race would be much closer than the 2-1 margin Clinton has with Latinos, and that turnout would be quite low.

Well I just want to let you guys know that there is absolutely zero excitement about this election down here. If we typically get 2 million voters (80+% turnout) for gubernatorial elections, I would be surprised if we get a quarter of that.

What I think is particularly curious is how little the party machines from the pro-statehood NPP and pro-commonwealth PDP have actually movilized. The most senior NPP Democrat and the most senior PDP Democrat (the Governor) have kind of stayed on the sidelines. It's almost like they made a conscious choice to keep turnout low.

Let me show you guys how Puerto Ricans do politics. This Youtube video shows the closing campaign rally for the pro-statehood NPP party in the 2004 gubernatorial elections. Watch the crowd shot starting at 6:52...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H339izrmyUo

... and then figure that the NPP actually lost the election, and had a smaller rally than the now Governor from the PDP.

Now, then, why did 800 people show up last Saturday for the Obama walkathon in Old San Juan, half of them fresh off the cruise ships... and why did less than 600 go to the closing rally by Hillary?

My point is, the PNP and the PDP could get if they wanted 20,000 people to a rally just to watch re-runs of Ishtar. They could certainly, working together, overcome the cynicism and indifference towards this primary. But apparently, though the top leadership backs Obama, they have chosen not to.

In any case, to me, for a candidate backed by the PDP Governor AND the NPP 2nd in command (the top guy is Republican) is like saying water will flow uphill.

I just cannot see Obama getting crunched. Even if he loses, the absolute vote margin will be quite low, not in the hundreds of thousands. That's my prediction, we'll see...; May 30, 2008 8:29 PM
greywolf said...: prdude...

quite interesting. However, my source that lives there says it will be much different. Your right we will have to wait and see.; May 30, 2008 8:34 PM
suzihussein22 said...: But seriously-

http://www.typepad.com/t/trackback/507341/29606898; May 30, 2008 8:36 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: softspoken-

Monica Bellucci would be perfect :)
I was born in 1959 and Bellucci was born in 1964.

I don't know if she still has her long dark hair or not, but mine is all the way down to my derriere ;)

.

greywolf-

Obama needed only 41 more delegates.

I predicted the other day

Maine- 1
PR- 28
MT- 10
SoDak- 9
That's a total of 48, so even if my numbers turn out a little high it looks like he will still cinch the nomination without anymore supers.

Guess will know in another four days ;); May 30, 2008 8:36 PM
tmess2 said...: greywolf, 35-22 is 2 more delegates than PR has. So which is it 35-20, 34-21, or 33-22?; May 30, 2008 8:40 PM
Oregon Dem said...: Amot:

If you do not want to be played by Chck Todd I am at a loss because he is one heck of a numbers guy - just like you.

How about Bobby Fisher?

JK; May 30, 2008 8:42 PM
greywolf said...: tmess.. sorry

it is 33 hillary 22 obama my bad.. my fingers slipped... do you by that...?; May 30, 2008 8:50 PM
ed iglehart said...: PRdude,

I hope you're right, cause I've got $300 play money on Obama in PR. The odds were too good to refuse at better than 20 to one!

Adios and Hasta la Vista

ed; May 30, 2008 8:50 PM
Oregon Dem said...: pr dude:

Interesting analysis. I stay away from predicting what I do not know much about (which is limited on a CD by CD basis to Oregon since I have lived only here since 1975).

I guess we shall wait and see.; May 30, 2008 8:50 PM
greywolf said...: Leah.. I think Obama will still need 2 more SD's. Based upon the 41

22 pr
9 MT
8 SD

So as of right now he needs 2 more taking into consideration the 1 in maine he needs 1 more.; May 30, 2008 8:55 PM
Oregon Dem said...: Soft Spoken:

What did you think of my idea that Danica Patrick playing you?; May 30, 2008 8:56 PM
Oregon Dem said...: Soft Spoken:

Ooops I meant playing Leah...; May 30, 2008 8:59 PM
Oregon Dem said...: All:

Thanks for letting me know where the RBC will be broadcast tomorrow. Guess I best get a good nights sleep so I can get up early enough (that would have me be bright and bushy tailed at 6am my time); May 30, 2008 9:02 PM
suzihussein22 said...: OR Dem-Sorry, I didn't catch that one. I don't know. I don't follow racing. I don't drink beer either. Is she the one that just almost got into fight after a race? That doesn't sound like me. I wouldn't mind having some of that presidente stuff with everybody with prdude Sunday though. :) But I'd better save up to go to VA later this summer. So that means I'm not going on hiatus and you guys are still stuck with my postings the next 2 weeks.;); May 30, 2008 9:06 PM
Unknown said...: Good evening guys,
I've been away all day, and had to catch up on the reading.

I just learned of Sopobama's first name, it's Kent.
So, please let's call him by his full name: "Kent Stopobama" otherwise we're doing him a favor!

--Ed, I read what was in the link you posted around noon, and I have so much to respond, I think I would have to leave it for another comment; May 30, 2008 9:07 PM
Unknown said...: Sorry, maybe he spells it "Cant"

... Yeah, I think that's it!

it's "Cant stopobamanow"
2L8!; May 30, 2008 9:09 PM
ed iglehart said...: McChip's Higher Education achievement:

Straight B.S.

and M.S. (More of the same)

and, PhD (Piled Higher and Deeper)

Too good to believe!

xxxx
ed; May 30, 2008 9:09 PM
Independent Voter said...: Young Hillary Clinton"

Watch this, video, sad but true, some things never change.; May 30, 2008 9:11 PM
Gator said...: my only post or response today.
You people overlook the racist video of the priest. Racist promoting Obama, nothing new.
Clinton will take PR by 26%
Appeal of Sat RBC is likely.
Obama implodes next week.
The Lemmings are running!

The Lemmings are running!

The Lemmings are running!

The Lemmings are running!

The Lemmings are running!; May 30, 2008 9:13 PM
apissedant said...: jpsedona,
You are incorrect. I explain that it is 30% in a previous post. It is around 3100 if you care to read it.
Here is a link of the spin from fairtax.org, where it clearly states that it is a 30% sales tax. This is how sales tax rates are calculated, they don't get to change the way sales taxes are calculated in order to make their plan look better, and neither do you.; May 30, 2008 9:21 PM
greywolf said...: way too funny Independent, just way too funny.; May 30, 2008 9:23 PM
greywolf said...: okay..gator is all i will say.

except what do the lemmings have to do with it. A new platform?
A new ticket? A new idea? I dont get it why are the running?; May 30, 2008 9:27 PM
suzihussein22 said...: To Whom It May Concern-

http://tinyurl.com/5q4db9; May 30, 2008 9:27 PM
suzihussein22 said...: ed iglehart-Yep! I've seen them...and I LOVE the acronyms! Too clever!

Leah-How's the ceiling doing?; May 30, 2008 9:29 PM
apissedant said...: greywolf,
You have some very serious gaps in your basic reasoning and knowledge. Do you know the GDP of the United States? Do you know what 4.5% of that is? Do you know what our total national budget is every year? Do you know how many hundreds of billions of dollars we spend on interest on the national debt, and on the military? Apparently not.; May 30, 2008 9:35 PM
apissedant said...: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Tax_revenue_Germany_2006.gif
That is a link to German's tax pie chart. You are apparently very wrong in your assertion. That took me twelve seconds to google search and realize you were wrong. Another minute to type this, not very difficult.; May 30, 2008 9:37 PM
greywolf said...: Soft..

I read that earlier to day. Personally yes they need to be seated..but I say seat them all with no vote... let be seated and see what they missed. My position is that if Hillary was winning this would not be an issue at all. NO ONE voiced concern or disatisfaction with the original decision until they began loosing. The more behind she was the louder she screamed. If they give in to her, it only shows kids that if they throw a fit and scream loud enough things will change to their favor.
So I say leave it as it is, seat them but no vote. Maybe next election everyone will behave and stay in line.; May 30, 2008 9:39 PM
ed iglehart said...: The fish was this big!

No, mine was bigger!

;-)
ed; May 30, 2008 9:41 PM
Independent Voter said...: :) greywolf - I thought you'd like that.; May 30, 2008 9:43 PM
greywolf said...: apissedent...

I just threw that out as an option. I have not sat down and worked out the figures. But I think income tax is eventually going to go to the way side. Also I beleive that a national sales tax, what ever the percentages are, that will be the direction we will go and should go. I am sure the percentages will have to be higher but it is a way we will end up one day.; May 30, 2008 9:44 PM
suzihussein22 said...: greywolf-First, I want to apologize for misspelling your name all this time. Obviously, I wasn't paying attention.

I have posted before, I believe they should be seated and be able to vote on other matters but not on the primary. But I've been trying to stay in the spirit of compromise.; May 30, 2008 9:45 PM
Oregon Dem said...: Soft:

(may I be so informal?)

Yes Danica is a "fighter" and she did head down the pit lane during the Indy 500 to "have a chat with" the other driver who hit her during the race (his fault not hers).

Yup so the truth is out about me now....

I am a beer drinking - Indy car and NASCAR racing fan - elitist - over educated - white collar guy.

Who is married to the most wonderful woman (not just because she voted for Obama) and three fantastic daughters (all of whom voted for Obama).

Did I mention why I like watching and followinfg intently NASCAR?; May 30, 2008 9:52 PM
Naiomi said...: Gator, Just a couple of questions...

Did you see that the priest in question is white?
Do you really think what he said was racist and not sarcastic?
Is it possible to be racist against whites when you are white and for that matter is white a race?
Did Obama have any way of knowing this man would say something outrageous?

I am not defending the father's statement, however, I don't see how you can hold Obama accountable for it. I would like to see all the rancor go away in this primary. I don't think it really serves us as a party.

I understand that you believe your candidate was the best and I can find some positive things about her. I certainly liked her a lot more when she wasn't running for office...but I can say that about most politicians.; May 30, 2008 9:52 PM
Unknown said...: Jethrock, thank you for the link, it's very inspiring!

Con Obama, si se puede...
por tanto, vota OBAMA!

Avec Obama, on peut...
donc Votez pour Obama!

Good luck Obama; May 30, 2008 9:54 PM
suzihussein22 said...: ed iglehart-Here's one-As long as it's not a true reflection of my state;)-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XOmRbU1rfWs; May 30, 2008 9:54 PM
Oregon Dem said...: Naimoi:

Amen; May 30, 2008 9:55 PM
greywolf said...: Soft.

Any compromise is giving in to Sen Clinton. And that is what I am against. It is not about the voters in her book it is about winning, nothing more or nothing less. Her approach is do as I say, seat them as voted, or else.
Heck.. I would seat them but give them no vote when it comes to the nomination. That sends two messages:

To the states. Follow the rules as established, or you will not be given a vote.

To the Candidates: Follow the rules, you can not and will not threaten us, bully us or cry wolf because you were out classed and your campaign messed up. Also if you have an issue with the process bring it up before the fact, not after the fact. This needs to be a two fold lesson.

by the way... not to worry about the spelling..I'm not perfect and I am not an english professor and I am a terrible typer. I spent most of my life working (35 years) talking and spelling in acronyms (SP). So Im no wizz kid when it comes to this spelling grammer and spelling thing now days.; May 30, 2008 9:55 PM
Oregon Dem said...: Gator:

You are sounding like Yanaka.

Come to think of it if Yamaka is the millionaire he claims to be - why on earth doesn't he have a laptop?

and why on earth did he leave Texas the week before the State Dem convention since he said he was a HRC delegate and he would not want to miss that vote.

Guess it was because he wanted to interupt his daughter's exam week at Stanford....; May 30, 2008 10:00 PM
suzihussein22 said...: greywolf-I'm just glad nobody's texting in their posts.

lts see hw ds ths lk; May 30, 2008 10:02 PM
greywolf said...: Naiomi

to your comment about the priest.. I could not have said it better. I thought it was a SNL or comedy roast at first then I saw it on the news.. I laughed so hard when I heard it.

Right or wrong.. you can not hold someone responsible for words that come from others mouths. It's called freedom of speach. As I told CNN, if they believe Obama should be held responsible for this and appologize for it. Then all the media people should be held responsible and should appoligize to the americans people for what liz said about the Clinton gaff (JFK)...; May 30, 2008 10:02 PM
greywolf said...: Soft.. I dont text.. could never figure it out.. and to be honest I dont care to. Americans are becoming too lazy in their communications as it is.

In fact my cell has all text blocked. I will not send it and I dont want to receive it. I someone wants to tell me something the darn it take a few moments and call.; May 30, 2008 10:06 PM
apissedant said...: Anyone who talks about going away from income taxes is just as silly as someone talking about going to a gold standard. We moved off the gold standard and off of national sales tax type systems because they didn't work. There is no way to make a progressive sales tax. All sales taxes are regressive.
The proper rate, to actually cover expenses that the US government has as well as the prebates and tax exempt items would be upwards of 40%. I actually have worked out the math before. This would severely increase the tax burden of all middle class and lower class citizens.; May 30, 2008 10:07 PM
greywolf said...: Oregondem

I think Yak and others like him are just full of hot air. No matter the blog, no matter the chat there are always a few that come in and just cause trouble and jerk everyones chains.; May 30, 2008 10:08 PM
vwis said...: OregonDem,

I never knew Nascar racing was an elitist sport. I know a guy who was told he was a redneck for attending a Nascar race. Thorough-bred racing, polo, tennis and golf are consider elitist sports. I actually though BHO should have a rally in Kentucky at the Kentucky Speedway. Maybe he could wave the flag. Now attending Go-Petty and taking lessons might be considered elitist. So I guess it depends on whether you enjoy watching or participating.; May 30, 2008 10:11 PM
greywolf said...: Apissedent... okay I hear you. I do not see why it will not work her when it works in other countries.

All I know is I live on a fixed income that is less than 23K a year. Paying income tax or any kind of tax hurts me real bad. This year I had to pay $700 in fed tax.. tell me that did not hurt in todays economy. It got so bad at the first of the year I was looking at being homeless, that was when I was real sick and the medical bills were killing me.; May 30, 2008 10:14 PM
tmess2 said...: Can already see the rest of the campaign based on what has gone on for the past four months.

Monday -- Someone uncovers something that some supporter of a candidate said that is offensive

Tuesday -- The reporters ask the candidate his/her thoughts on the supporters comments

Wednesday -- The other candidate says that the response did not go far enough

Thursday -- The candidate disavows any knowledge or association with his/her former supporter

Friday -- The MSM totals up points for the week

Sunday -- The talking heads rehash and regrade the scores for the week.

Next week -- same as the previous week except for the shoe being on the other foot.

Am wondering when this year we will get to perhaps talk about issues like Iraq, global warming, health care, social security, trade, alternatives to oil that actually work.; May 30, 2008 10:14 PM
greywolf said...: What is worse is I am one of those retired vets I spent 22 years active duty, and for the life of me I have been unable to find any kind of job for the past 20 months now. Anything is better that what we have now.; May 30, 2008 10:17 PM
suzihussein22 said...: Let's all remember this when the RBC meet this weekend-

http://www.angelfire.com/pa/lkmarvin/Sounds/PLAYFAIR.WAV

from the wisest of Looney Tunes.; May 30, 2008 10:21 PM
apissedant said...: grey,
That sucks, and I hear you. I am a vet and I am attempting to live off the MGI bill while I finish my degree. It stretches my resources quite a bit, considering the GI bill doesn't even cover my tuition, let alone living expenses.
In any case, 700 is about 3% of your earnings, even with the 2300 dollar prebate, your buying power would still be reduced by 4051 dollars. Yes, I really did just calculate it. Oh, and this is assuming the 23%(actually 30%) they advertise, not the amount that would actually cover the federal budget.; May 30, 2008 10:27 PM
RobH said...: Oregon Dem,

You and I probably need to take it over to DemocraticElectionsForums and start a new thread.

Big race fan, here. Been a big fan - all forms - for a long time.
I think I saw the film "Grand Prix" with Jim Garner, as a kid, been hooked ever since.

Ayrton Senna (F1) a personal hero until an untimely demise in '94. I said before I'm a look-a-like for Michael Andretti. An Andretti fan through and through in US open wheel (no Unsers thank you) and thus a big Danica fan now. (Loved Motegi.)

Did you say you want Junior to play your part in the sitcom? I've been a Hendrick fan for a while - so, funny. I kinda like Junior this year in the 88 - not so much last year on the 8. Wish Kyle had stuck around at Hendrick this year - he is formidable (like our "Million Dollar Gal."); May 30, 2008 10:32 PM
RobH said...: Folks,

And on a completly unrelated, apolitical topic - my oldest son went to his senior prom tonight.

Ouch, how old do I feel ????????; May 30, 2008 10:36 PM
apissedant said...: Are two greatest expenses right now are interest on the national debt and our military expenses. No other country has these expenses nearly as ridiculous as we have. It makes up nearly 50% of our national budget. 50%!!! Another thing, many nations are more socialized than we are. This means the government can actually OWN companies, and make money by itself. Several nations actually have zero taxes, because the government makes enough from selling natural resources like oil. Here in this country, we give away our resources to private companies who then make billions of dollars off of are stuff.
No one ever tells you the ugly side of capitalism. Here is another one, most new drugs and treatments are found by government scientist. Look up Bristol-Meyers and taxol. This is a drug that was found by a US government scientist. It was then GIVEN to bristol meyers, who in turn paid 32 million to Florida State University. This of course, is a taxpayer funded university. Florida State University then found out how to mass produce the drug. Bristol Meyers has now made over 12 billion dollars selling this drug, that cost them less than 500 million to make. They even went to court to extend their 7 year patent because they needed to make more money to cover R&D costs. WHAT!?!?!; May 30, 2008 10:37 PM
greywolf said...: apissedent...

Are you running those numbers aginst corps, and such also? 23% is awful high. ... which means something is wrong with out government spending. Something is seriously wrong. What kind of exemptions are you running. If there was a fed sales tax... why would anything or any one be exempt.; May 30, 2008 10:41 PM
greywolf said...: robh

congrats, my daughter graduated 10 years ago... if you feel old then I am a relic... lmao; May 30, 2008 10:44 PM
apissedant said...: I misspelled our, I wrote are. My bad, I appologize; May 30, 2008 10:44 PM
Unknown said...: -- jpsedona,
To answer your questions directed to grey (around 7:47 pm I think), please read below:

1) What percentage of their budget is used to pay the interest on national debt?
Well, Germany didn't have any national debt until a decade or so ago, as I haven't checked the numbers recently, and I know that they've been running a small deficit lately.
In the 70's, 80's, and the early 90's Germany, along with Japan (Japan being the highest, and Germany the second highest) were America's biggest lenders, which means that they used their surplus to buy US Bonds worth hundreds of billions of Dollars. Now, it's gone down a lot since the 90's especially soon after Germany has reunified/reunited. Eastern Germany was in such a mess, that it took a lot of West Germany's money to fix their economy (still not there yet).

2) What percentage of their budget is for their military?
Again, I haven't checked that lately, but I know for sure that it's always been under 10%, I know that in and before the 90's it was under 5%. And to add to that, based on a UN report, the US accounts for about half the WORLD's military expenditure. The ratio might go down a little in the next few years, as China is trying to build up her military.

3) What percentage of their budget is given away to foreign countries?
I don't know exactly what the percentage is, but I know that their help to foreign countries is somewhere around 13 times the US ratio. That's huge, but the difference is that the US gives most of their money to Israel, and to Egypt (on a ratio of 5 to 1), while as Germany gave most of their money to poor East European countries. They also help a lot in Asia and in Africa (but to a smaller extent).
Now, they give a lot, but scandinavian countries have been giving a lot more (those numbers are per-capita ratios of course).

I'm sorry if those numbers are a little outdated, but they reflect an average of what they were on average for more than 2 decades.

Hope this helps!; May 30, 2008 10:47 PM
greywolf said...: apissedent...

We all know that there are billions of dollars wasted every year in our government. So much corruption and unrealistic spending. Look at those government contracts for example that we give out every year where the tax payers are being ripped off just so one person can work while three or four stand around watching. Look at the crazy spending by the military... they have a rule that was used when I was in... spend it all each year even if you dont need it... and request more. So much waste..billions of it every year.
Same goes applies to medicare and the vet systems..so much is wasted on fraud and such.. If our government was better at managing their expenses and such .. they could function on a lot less.; May 30, 2008 10:49 PM
apissedant said...: grey,
The major expense is the prebate, this gives every inidividual 2300 dollars at the beginning of each year. Besides this, nothing can be double taxed under their system. So anything that is used, or anything else that has been in someway tax before cannot be taxed. This means if you build a house, and you buy stuff from Lowe's, you pay taxes on all the supplies. Your tax can only be applied to the actual profit. Our GDP is, last time I checked... about 13 trillion dollars. Assuming you stick with 13 trillion, 23% would make 3 trillion dollars in income for the government. This does not account for all the exemptions I previously talked about. This is about exactly what our current budget is.; May 30, 2008 10:51 PM
apissedant said...: We spend about 500 billion on interest, and a little over that on the military. Including the current war, that goes up by another couple hundred billion. That's about 1.3 trillion in non-negotiable bills.; May 30, 2008 10:53 PM
suzihussein22 said...: robh-Thank goodness I've got 6 yrs. to deal with that. If that were our daughter, my husband would be cleaning guns when her escort came by.:); May 30, 2008 10:54 PM
apissedant said...: jason,
Last time I checked, I believe the US gave away about 23 billion dollars a year in international aid. This is effectively nothing in a 3 trillion dollar budget. Also, again, their tax rate is no where near as low as it was reported to be in this thread.
The United States and Japan have the largest national debts of any country in the world.; May 30, 2008 10:56 PM
suzihussein22 said...: This makes me think of one aspect of our tax base-property taxes. We keep getting taxed on the full value of house and land every year. Shouldn't we just have to pay more property tax based on whether the value goes up the next year?; May 30, 2008 11:00 PM
apissedant said...: We have spent about 30 years driving our country into the ground. There is no quick fix, and we are going to have to work long and hard to fix it. Taxes aren't going down anytime soon. That's what our parents and grandparents did, and now we have to pay back the debts that they built up.; May 30, 2008 11:00 PM
Unknown said...: There something wrong with the math today!!!
A lot of mistakes...

Do you all need sleep after chatting late last night!?; May 30, 2008 11:00 PM
Unknown said...: and with my grammar too:

"there IS something wrong..."; May 30, 2008 11:01 PM
apissedant said...: soft,
No, we don't currently have any rules against double taxation. If you think about it, we get double and triple taxed all day long. It is how the system works. The government's expenses don't magically go down each year, so they need at least the same money that they collected last year. This means continually charging the same taxes over and over again to continue paying for ongoing expenses. Those property taxes go mostly to our schools. As long as we keep having children, we're going to keep paying for teachers and schools.; May 30, 2008 11:02 PM
greywolf said...: Well I hope Obama gets seals the deal all the way to the WH. Then maybe he can live up to his word and make my tax burden on my fixed income will be zero.; May 30, 2008 11:03 PM
apissedant said...: jason,
what's wrong with the math?; May 30, 2008 11:03 PM
vwis said...: Amot,

What I wanted to know was who you thought should play you? Not who the others thought should play you.

Also, I think it was Jayw who said Ed Norton. In which role is he most like you.; May 30, 2008 11:07 PM
apissedant said...: grey,
Oh yeah, by the way. As for your individual tax contribution, it was really quite simple. I took the information you gave me, 23k with 700 in federal taxes. This gave you a buying power of 22,300 dollars.
For the fairtax system, I simply took the 23,000, and added 2,300. This gave 25,300. I multiplied this by .77. This gave me just over 18,000. I then subtracted this number from 22,300. This gave me your net loss in buying power. I used .77 because the 30% sales tax reduces your buying power by 23%. This assumes everything you buy is new, which most of it will be. Most expenses for those in low income brackets are for perishables and services, which would not be considered used goods and not be subject to tax exemptions under the fairtax system.; May 30, 2008 11:07 PM
apissedant said...: Can I be played by Justin Long?; May 30, 2008 11:08 PM
greywolf said...: apissedent...

I am one of those parents you just mentioned. I didnt do it. I spent 22 years in the Army, 10 years as a restaurant General Manager and had 6 years into a growing s-corp home remodeling business until the housing market collapsed. Then I was forclosed upon and forced into chapter 7. I went from a 170K a year income to a 23K income in one day. But I paid my share of taxes when I was making the money.. single people get the shaft in taxes.; May 30, 2008 11:10 PM
vwis said...: Jason,

Smart, it really doesn't suit you. lol.

I actually realized today that I've picked up a stomach bug and that's why I'm was a little loopy. Maybe its contagious and spreads through the internet via the keyboard.; May 30, 2008 11:12 PM
suzihussein22 said...: apissedant-Maybe it's time for another tea party. No taxation without...

That reminds me of Garth Brooks trying to get royalties off of used music stores.; May 30, 2008 11:18 PM
Independent Voter said...: ss - you wrote "This makes me think of one aspect of our tax base-property taxes."

-------

Over the past couple years (more so this past year) home values have gone down here in San Diego, and we have a cap on how much the county can increase the property-tax. However in years like we are in now - when home values have depreciated, homeowners can petition the county to reduce what they owe in property taxes to meet the value of other homes in the neighborhood. And if there are foreclosures in the neighborhood (which nowadays is MOST neighborhoods here) your value will be greatly decreased, therefore their tax burden is reduced.

You may want to check with your county assessor to see if this may be available to homeowners in your area.; May 30, 2008 11:18 PM
vwis said...: Apissedant,

I loved Jeepers Creepers. What about his character makes you think of yourself like him? If you read my earlier posts no big name stars are going to be cast in the parts.

But, thinking about the whole thing it might be a little boring watching people just sitting endlessly.

Except for Yam running 5 miles and swimming laps everyday. While multitasking without a laptop. How does he do it?; May 30, 2008 11:19 PM
apissedant said...: grey,
You, nor my parents, nor my grandparents purposely did it. All of your taxes were heavily reduced during the Reagan years, and the federal budget was heavily increased. The net outcome was our first trillion dollar debt, and of course the fiasco with medicare and social security. Those problems are coming to a head, and that trillion dollar debt has now expanded to 9 trillion dollars. This was further exacerbated by companies using the same bad math used by the federal governments. The airlines, auto industries, and many other companies promised huge pensions to all its workers, and the workers and the companies were supposed to be paying large contributions. These contributions were diverted into, "profit", for the company. They hoped to eventually pay off tomorrow's retirees with tomorrow's workers' pension contributions.
The basic term for it is a pyramid scheme. If it weren't done by a major corporation or the government, it would be considered illegal.; May 30, 2008 11:21 PM
Oregon Dem said...: RobH:

Sorry was watching Keith for the last hour. Yup I am a NASCAR fan - well racing fan in general.

I started back in 1972 when I was asked to be in a pit crew for the Indy 500 - not an over the wall pit crew member - just a person in the pits to hand the tires etc. over.

We can start a thread in DEF if you like but I bet we will be the only ones commenting on it....

I only got into NASCAR about 15 years ago - loved that Black #3 flying round the track.

And as for Michael Andretti - I was in Portland on Father's Day (cannot remember the exact year) when he came from fifth to first by driving through the middle of four other cars to beat them all to the festival curve - what a move! He led the rest of the race and won over his Dad Mario when he finished second.

Anyhow - yup I play tennis and golf. Drink beer. Am an overeducated elitist, but at least I do not play polo or go to horse races (though I have been to a few greyhound races in Gresham Oregon before the track closed).; May 30, 2008 11:22 PM
vwis said...: Akamay,

If you're out there. Maybe your daughter has a computer or something. I miss you. You really made an impression on me. It was when you opened up to me on an earlier thread.; May 30, 2008 11:24 PM
apissedant said...: He's nerdy and he normally plays the level headed relatively smart kid. He's also young, and I am relatively young. Most the actors I like are old, and half of them are black. That would just seem weird to me.; May 30, 2008 11:24 PM
apissedant said...: ss,
Double taxation sucks, but it is part of life. If you want the benefits of a government, then you have to pay for them. At least until Jesus comes back. I'm gonna stick with paying taxes, but you're welcome to pack your suitcase and wait on the porch for Jesus if you'd like.; May 30, 2008 11:27 PM
Oregon Dem said...: Softspoken:

I love your questions.

As was said by someone funnier than me:

There are only two things certain in life: death and taxes.

The point that I would love to make, and the one I think you are making, is that taxes come in many forms. Some are obvious (property taxes, sales tax, income tax) and some are not so obvious (gas tax, development fees, permit fees for opening a business).

The real question to me is how the taxation system works. As I said to you a bit ago on a different forum - to me there is no reason that if I make $50,000 from investment income and you make $50,000 from working your tail off in retail sales that we should pay different amounts in income tax.; May 30, 2008 11:30 PM
greywolf said...: well everyone.. Im out of here for the night... Have a lot to get done befor I turn in. Going to a big neighborhood bbq tomorrow. We are watching the RBC on big screens tomorrow, cooking out and partying. We are all Obama fans.. 90 of us. yippie. Hopefully it will be a celebration tomorrow.
See ya on the flip side of the day tomorrow.; May 30, 2008 11:30 PM
Independent Voter said...: gnite greywolf, have a few for me tomorrow.; May 30, 2008 11:35 PM
suzihussein22 said...: independent voter-Yes, the assessor is adjusting the tax rate in proportion to the minimum appraisal that was set by the state. So we beat the bullet for this year anyway.

greywolf-I have a pretty good idea of what you're going through even though we never made that much to start with. We had so many hospital bills after our kids were born we had to file also, and that was after insurance paid out. So I don't see how any healthcare plan is going to work until there is reform in the "industry". But since Obama has already helped start some plans with vets, there sounds like there's a good chance of improvement in that area.; May 30, 2008 11:37 PM
apissedant said...: oregon,
A few things. First off, currently, the people investing pay less in taxes. They pay 12% for dividends, while the guy busting his butt working walking on high beams is paying over 20% on his income. Second, I hate to get biblical. I am not even religious, but pretty much all religious texts have issue with the investment class. People like Paris Hilton will never work a day in their life, because they can live off the interest of their fathers until they die. Her entire line, for ten thousand years will never have to work, because their money will continually grow. I don't think there is anything you can do today, that should excuse all of your descendants from actually working for the rest of eternity. Especially considering most of the super rich did not invent anything, or cure anything, they just marketed someone else's invention. Religious texts speak very poorly of earning income by effectively loaning money. That is essentially what an investment is. They valued hard work, and so should we. Work should be thought of as more essential and worthwhile than just being wealthy, and earning interest. For this reason, I personally believe EARNED income should be at a lower tax rate than INTEREST.
This is not how our current tax system works, there is no slot on the 1040 that changes your tax calculation based on what the earned income came from. The only exception is dividend taxes, which as I said, are currently lower than other forms of earned income.; May 30, 2008 11:43 PM
Amot said...: vwis, OR Dem,
I agreed on Tim Allen. I don't watch much MSM so I can't really tell who is the best guy with numbers and legal matters. Plus he should resemble my physical appearance. That is why I asked for help. Plus I thought we have a casting director :)

RobH, OR Dem,
I don't follow NASCAR closely, but if you like to share thoughts on F1, you can count on me, I've been fan for decades!; May 30, 2008 11:46 PM
suzihussein22 said...: apissedant-Render onto Ceasar what is Ceasar's...; May 30, 2008 11:47 PM
vwis said...: Apissedant,

Who would play your wife? You involved her last night by saying we need to drug her or something.; May 30, 2008 11:48 PM
apissedant said...: vwis,
Oohhh... I don't know. She is a 6 foot tall Dutch woman that hates intellectual discussions and despises religion. I don't know who in Hollywood could properly play that role.
soft,
I am in no way a biblical scholar. I know this is from Jesus, but what was the point of the message?; May 30, 2008 11:52 PM
Oregon Dem said...: apissedant:

I agree. Paris Hilton's money from her Daddy grows at whatever rate it grows and she makes 10 times more that anybody on this thread and pays very little taxes (if any).

It is time, in my mind anyway, to tax her "hard earned" income at the same rate we tax the real hard earned income of the average Joe or in our particular case the hard earned income of someone like softspoken....; May 30, 2008 11:54 PM
vwis said...: Amot,

We are just brainstorming here. I'll pass it on to the casting director. I want people to be satisfied with their character so that they'll watch. Alot of the posters here don't watch much MSM except cable news.

By the way, is anyone else have weird experience with the visual verification. It is now not changing. Yeah, same as the last post. This much power is all going to my head.; May 30, 2008 11:56 PM
Oregon Dem said...: Amot:

I just e-mailed Chuck Todd and asked him to shave....

lol; May 30, 2008 11:57 PM
Amot said...: "We need to drug her"? Liz Taylor :)))

Someone mentioned Maine! Though Maine doesn't actually choose delegates before the state convention I never accounted Maine, since I think there is no chance for Obama to get extra delegate there. He was too far from any breakpoint. If all his delegates attend and 70% of Clinton's do the same there is no change. Maine is not large state so travel is not the same problem as in other states like CO. I can't figure out Hillary losing 210 delegates in CD2 or 240 in CD1 or 500 overall to lose a delegate. Remember there are alternates too... She loses between 5% and 10% on such forums and no way to lose 30% in Maine. Sorry, guys, count only the add-on for Obama!; May 31, 2008 12:00 AM
Oregon Dem said...: All:

Dang why cannot I just type this and all of a sudden it will be 5pm EST and the RBC meeting will be over?

I cannot stand the wait.

The super delegates that remain unannounced probably cannot either.

I say unannounced because I do not believe ay are waivering - they are just witing to announce.; May 31, 2008 12:01 AM
apissedant said...: vwis, oregon,
I enjoyed our talk! We managed to not once complain about Obama or Hillary! Democrats can agree and do something other than complain and fight about irrelevant issues! STOP THE PRESSES!
But now, the wife will soon kill me again. I think I said I would be up half an hour ago. I want two bodies, 'cause I love this forum. What will I do after the election!?!?!
I'll have to go back to reading my nerd books again.
NIGHT!
Apparently it(Caesar statement) is about taxes, but as far as I can read, the actual meaning of the statement is in hot dispute in various internet articles. So I don't know your implications of the statements, and I am intrigued to know. Next time I'm online I expect a full explanation please! (I added the please, normally I'm really rude, but you seem like an ok person); May 31, 2008 12:02 AM
Unknown said...: Apissedant,

"Here in this country, we give away our resources to private companies who then make billions of dollars off of are stuff.
No one ever tells you the ugly side of capitalism."

Wow, this kind of talk can get you killed in this country... well especially if you're in Texas.

In the early 90's I was taking a Communications class, and decided to make a speech on "Communism."

Not, that I'm a communist or that I adhere to their values or viewpoints , but I felt people should at least learn a little about it, so they stop fearing it as much. Well, thank god it wasn't the 80's, otherwise I might've gotten electrocuted... So mind you, the professor told me I can't do it. Being the provocative mind that I am, I still did it!
And to make it even better, I then decided to give a speech against the "death penalty." I just felt my first amendment right was somewhat violated there.

I can tell you, I wasn't that popular after that, and it was in Austin, not even one of those conservative cities like Dallas or Houston!!!

Anyways, I just thought I'd mention it, because I feel in this country, we are driven to fear and hate a lot of things and people that/who are foreign to us, to our culture, and to our way of thinking.

Most times, we don't know anything about them, but we know we hate have to hate them. We know that as soon as our government finds a new enemy, we have to hate them with passion without even finding out what we just decided to do.
My speech about communism, was meant to show the ignorant, that it was just an ideology, like Capitalism is. If our enemies chose to follow it (although, no country has ever reached Communism like K. Marx has described it), it doesn't make it poison, it's just a different, maybe opposite view on the world!

I got to travel a lot in my life, and that since I was a kid, and the more I lived in other countries, the more things I learned, and the more I felt ignorant...

So, my point is that there is no shame in being ignorant, we all are to some degree. But it is shameful not to want to get a little less ignorant whenever we have a chance (you know learn something different every once in a while doesn't hurt anybody!).; May 31, 2008 12:02 AM
Oregon Dem said...: You know - I have a confession...

At one point, all be it back in March, I thought that Leah may be a paid operative for Obama...

Now I am just worried that the ceiling that colapsed in her bedroom was more serious than she made it out to be...

Hope all is well Leah.; May 31, 2008 12:07 AM
apissedant said...: jason,
beautiful post! It is hilarious actually. I literally ended a paper with almost that exact same statement just two months ago in my English class. My prof loved it, which is hilarious. I go to Old Dominion University in Norfolk, Va. It is a HUGE military school, with almost all students either the dependent of military, military, or a vet.
I did however, get in a lot of trouble for the speech I gave on the military not caring how stupid its recruits are, because it doesn't take much brains to do most military jobs. I was silenced for that one, and it was funny, because I'm a vet, and I was the only one in that classroom. Everyone else was the dependent of a sailor though.

The basic idea of the paper was that willful ignorance is no excuse for poor decision making. Ignorance is not a crime, like you said, all of us are ignorant about something, and were once ignorant about a lot more. However, too many people rest comfortably in their ignorance, and do nothing to better themselves. Then they complain when things don't work out properly.

Night! For reals this time!; May 31, 2008 12:11 AM
stopOBAMAnow said...: Hello There:

Gator:

You are really funny.

Yes, Obama can and will implode soon!

Did you see how the TUCC audience enjoyed Father Pfleger's hate and bigotry? Unbelievable, folks.

See who Obama's spiritual guides are!

______________________________

To All anti-Clinton and anti-Women Crowd:

For sure the Hurdle will NOT be 2025 TDs!

It will be closer to 2131-2154 TDs.

Yes, Experience matters
Yes, Character matters
Yes, Judgment and credibility matter.

Dubya Bush = Inexperience = 9/11 = Disaster.

Obama = Inexperience = Disaster!

Stop Obama Now. Stop ObaBush Now.; May 31, 2008 12:11 AM
vwis said...: Robh,

Prom night, huh. Another 8 years for my daughter. Sigh a breath of relief.; May 31, 2008 12:12 AM
Unknown said...: Greywolf,

"Look at the crazy spending by the military... they have a rule that was used when I was in... spend it all each year even if you dont need it... and request more."

Well, it's not just in the military, but almost in every government agency, department, etc...
The reasoning behind it, is that next year's budget is based on this year's, so even though the gvt is not making cuts this year, and if they see that a certain agency has spent less than what it was awarded, they will reduce its budget to this year's spending (sometimes even lower).

So, if that agency didn't spend as much this year, (because they were trying to keep the money for some program they're planning on running the following year), not only would they lose the money they saved (under budget), but they will see that budget shrink for next year.

So this is stupid, but that's how it works, and even more so when it's budget cutting season!!!; May 31, 2008 12:12 AM
Oregon Dem said...: apissedant:

wiki "Render unto Caesar"

Hostile questioners tried to trap Jesus into taking an explicit and dangerous stand on whether Jews should or should not pay taxes to the Roman occupation. They anticipated that Jesus would oppose the tax, for Luke's Gospels explains their purpose was "to hand him over to the power and authority of the governor."[2] The governor was Pilate, and he was the man responsible for the collecting of Rome's taxes in Judea. At first the questioners flattered Jesus by praising his integrity, impartiality and devotion to truth. Then they asked him whether or not it is right for Jews to pay the taxes demanded by Caesar. Jesus first called them hypocrites, and then asked one of them to produce a Roman coin that would be suitable for paying Caesar's tax. One of them showed him a Roman coin, and he asked them whose name and inscription were on it. They answered, "Caesar’s," and he responded “Give to Caesar what is Caesar’s, and give to God what is God’s.” His interrogators were flummoxed by this authoritative, yet ambiguous, answer and left disappointed.

That is just the first paragraph - check it out if you want more.; May 31, 2008 12:13 AM
billyjay66 said...: jason

"in this country, we are driven to fear and hate a lot of things and people that/who are foreign to us, to our culture, and to our way of thinking."

I'm sure you've read Orwell "1984" "We have always been at war with eastasia" Your statement sounds just like the "two minutes of hate" the government ordered.

Orwell was a fabulous prophet........ visualizing in 1946 a flickering little grey screen called a TV that would control us.; May 31, 2008 12:14 AM
suzihussein22 said...: Aside from the Biblical reference, that was the first reference I could remember about taxing. Then I found this-

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0254/is_5_59/ai_70738913

No, I haven't read all of it.; May 31, 2008 12:16 AM
apissedant said...: I won't let her know you suggested that name. I don't think my wife would like the idea of being played by a 54 year old fat woman. If only we had a time travel devise! 28 years ago would have been good casting. I make her sound kind of dumb, but she's smart, she just likes to focus on these emotion thingies that I choose to ignore. I actually met her at the Peninsula Democrats Jefferson Jackson Gala.
Ok, seriously, last words. I feel the need to mention that I hate Jefferson and Jackson, and I believe both of them were terrible presidents. I don't care if the Republican party they created later became the Democratic party of today. The party of today is polar opposite of nearly everything those two men represented.; May 31, 2008 12:16 AM
Oregon Dem said...: vwis and robh:

I have had three daughters go through (or rather ME go through) prom night....

I am still alive and my daughters are still the love of my life.; May 31, 2008 12:16 AM
Amot said...: OR Dem,
will he shave for me? WOW I am Ok with him then :)

Leah said she is usually sitting outside when blogging so I guess DCW saved her life :); May 31, 2008 12:20 AM
apissedant said...: Thanks for the info! I will read more after doing my special education papers tomorrow. Jesus was a great man, wasn't he? Doesn't matter if you're religious, you still have to realize his intelligence and integrity.

jason,
Super smart man. Cannot add a single word to that either.
Yam is back, so I should go now before I lose my no candidate bashing streak.; May 31, 2008 12:21 AM
apissedant said...: oregon,
Tell your daughter to have fun at UofM grad school. I was planning to go there for grad school in 2009, but my wife got pregnant. Instead we're going to Holland to live with the socialists. Luckily I get to vote for Obama in November before I leave the states in December. :); May 31, 2008 12:23 AM
Oregon Dem said...: Amot:

I asked Chuck Todd to shave,but cannot promise anything, after all he is his own person.

I only suggested he play you since he as as much the numbers guys as you are here.

Any thoughts on why no super delegates came out today?; May 31, 2008 12:28 AM
Independent Voter said...: sorry pissed ant - by the description it sounded almost like a perfect fit - like you said 20+ years ago before she was diagnosed with rheumatoid arthritis which prevents her from being active.; May 31, 2008 12:30 AM
Independent Voter said...: Oregon Dem,

My guess is they want to see the outcome of tomorrow's RBC meeting. And they also want to see Obama pushed over by pledged delegates instead of supers.; May 31, 2008 12:31 AM
Unknown said...: apissedant,

"I believe the US gave away about 23 billion dollars a year in international aid."

Approximately (give or take 4 or 5 billion), 2 of which go to Egypt, and bwn 10 & 12 to Israel. Well, I don't call any of these two countries POOR countries in my book.
The remaining aide, which amounts to less than 7 billion has a big chunk go to countries as weapons deal, (getting military equipment as an aide is NOT an aide per se), and btw, the same is also done with both Israel and Egypt.
"This is effectively nothing in a 3 trillion dollar budget."
That's exactly my point when I said that my numbers were "per-capita" or "per-GDP" numbers (0.66% based on your calc).

"The United States and Japan have the largest national debts of any country in the world."
That, I'm really not sure about, as I haven't read much about Japan's Economy since it went down the drain the past 6-8 years. But even if they have one of the highest debts in the world, they are also one of the US' biggest creditors, and that's a fact. You can check that on the Federal Reserve, I think (but I'm not sure). Yes, I think China has surpassed them recently, but it's the Country that holds most (or second to most) of our debt, which still makes them creditors, not debitors (because what the US owes them would surpass their debt by far).... basing that on the US-Treasury bonds they're holding, as their debt cannot get near to that number!!!

Sorry, if I confused you more than I informed you, but I get to babble a lot when it comes to Economics, International Relations, or History (my favorite topics); May 31, 2008 12:32 AM
Oregon Dem said...: apissedant:

I will let my daughter know, I am so happy that she is doing this for herself.
not to mention that the Masters program she is going into makes so much sense in the modern world: Sustanable Landscape Archecture.

Her final Capstone project in college was the effect of global warming stress on plant species. It was amaxing what she did - even spent some time splitting plant DNA to see if she could make more tolerant species of differnt plants to heat and sunlight.

I am awed with her abilities.; May 31, 2008 12:34 AM
vwis said...: Appissedant or Jason,

The greatest man that ever lived. I could tell you a story that would make a non-believer think. I have to write a book about it. It's a story about a non-religious family that has everything thrown at them. Only one believes in Him and is shocked to discover the role he played in they're life all those years. When everyone attacks her yet again, he saves her again.; May 31, 2008 12:35 AM
suzihussein22 said...: apissedant-Do you know where Dam Neck, VA is? I will be in that area in 2 1/2 months.

jason-It's okay not to be popular. My husband just won a debate at school about whether or not we should have declared independence. His side was not declaring independence. The other side obviously didn't do their research.; May 31, 2008 12:36 AM
Oregon Dem said...: Sto Pob A Man OW:

Want me to prove to you that you are Yamaka?

If you are going to try to pretend you are not Yamaka - at least do NOT use the EXACT same words and sentences you have used in the past.

Oh sorry - Yam is a millionaire from Dallas and you are from Huston - and he is at Cornell before visiting his other daughter at Stanford (during finals week no less!). He is a sick man and you obviously are not...

Well in my opinion you are not much different from him - I think the both of you are script writers for Rush Limbaugh trying to come up with a good line for Druggie Rush's next show.

Just my opinion.; May 31, 2008 12:42 AM
Amot said...: OR Dem,
believe me or not, I could play myself if necessary :) But I would like to see a nice actor doing the job instead (hihihihi)

About no endorsements - the rate this week was unusually high for a week with no major events and 3 non-working days. Plus Obama is banking supers no matter what he says. He wants a strong start on June 4th and that means 10-15 endorsements. My guess was he will announce 10-12 endorsements per day reaching the new magic number by June 10th... I also guess he is ready to release a large block with several switches if she gives no sign of withdraw!

One endorsement today by noon and that will be it for the week.; May 31, 2008 12:44 AM
Unknown said...: --Apissedant,
jason, what's wrong with the math?

Sorry, but I was reading the older comments when I posted this, you know catching up.
The math:
one about the 33+22= 57 delegates in PR (only 55!),
another about the 30% vs 23%, w/ both parties saying that they are right, and I will lean with one of them, but I can see how both can look right:
30 = 23% of 130, which is how taxes are counted. However,
130 = 100 + (30% of 100)

So, the right answer lies with the base you're choosing: 100 or 130?

Now, the third one I can't even remember; May 31, 2008 12:44 AM
suzihussein22 said...: Oh, no!

http://tinyurl.com/4vg665

Yes, I do believe in evolution.; May 31, 2008 12:46 AM
vwis said...: No endorsements tonight!
They have had the tendency to come out a night like they're wise owls or perhaps its because they have to do it to get any sleep.

I figure they are holding back to not push Hillary over the edge. They have alot of respect for her.; May 31, 2008 12:50 AM
Amot said...: This site actually has an option that can track visitors :)
But I don't think any of us need prove Yam is stil lurking here :)
I don't think he has the knowledge to cover his traces... after all being fanatic doesn't mean you are good at Internet communications!; May 31, 2008 12:51 AM
Unknown said...: --Apissedant,

"We have spent about 30 years driving our country into the ground... That's what our parents and grandparents did, and now we have to pay back the debts that they built up."

That's what I've been arguing for years, almost decades. I'm referring to what Reagan did to our Economy, and I will try to be quick on this one, by giving you an analogy:

Reagan was a very nice guy, but to everybody's surprise, I think a very bad president.
The reason I'm saying this is because he's the one who escalated our debt to these levels. Now, my analogy is this: He seems like the dad, who's on a cop's salary (let's say), and starts buying his kids all kinds of toys, buying his wife a nice car, moving to a very nice house, going on vacation twice a year, and putting all that on credit cards, and getting loans from the bank, and getting a second mortgage. NOW THAT's A FANTASTIC DAD AND HUSBAND!!
Until the day he dies, or leaves his wife and kids, who end up with the bills to pay... I'll spare you the rest.

Well, that's irresponsible spending!; May 31, 2008 12:53 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Amot, Oregon, and all-

Well, the ceiling problem really is a nightmare.

I spent yesterday getting the furniture out of the room and pulling up the carpet so that it and the pad could dry. The plumber came out today to check on the a/c drain and got the secondary line working and the a/c man will be out on Tuesday to fix the primary drain. Carpet man coming out in the beginning of next week to restretch the carpet and then that will just leave the sheetrock guy and painter to finish up the rest!

I don't know what time of day the flood and collapse happened since I hadn't gone into that room all day but before DCW I usually went to bed much earlier so there is a chance I would have been in bed and everything would have fell on me if I had not been outside on my laptop at the time. All together there was probably about 10 gallons of water that came down with the sheetrock and insulation. Half ended up on the bed and pillows - the other half on the carpet next to the bed.

So I guess you could say that DCW 'saved me'!

I am really surprised that there wasn't even one endorsement today ;(

Tomorrow is going to be an exciting day indeed. About eight more hours and the coverage of the RBC should start :); May 31, 2008 12:53 AM
Oregon Dem said...: Amot:

You have been so close to accurate that I cannot NOT believe what you have to say. (save for me having Oregon one more than you initially). But I do wonder and question whether Obama has those supers or not.

My feeling is that if he did / does have them then the best (IMO) strategy would be to roll them out very quickly after Oregon and get to 2025+ and have some more roll out later to keep the momentum going.

I realize that there still is overwhelming momentum from SDs for Senator Obama, but I am not positive there are 36 - 40 "in the bank" (not that 36 - 40 will not come out after the last three primaries - just that Senator Obama may not have complete control).

Senator Obama has done everything right - for example rolling out John Edwards right after HRC's win in WV. But even thought I can marvel at that and other coups (like Richardson) I am not quite so sure this time that all is ready to go.

Of course I still believe Obama will be and should be the nominee...

Obama
O8
Oh yeah; May 31, 2008 12:57 AM
Emit R Detsaw said...: Heard a logical analogy on MSNBC today that might explain why there were no Obama delegates today. Think it was Chucky T that said it.

Anyway, the thought is that Obama is wanting MT and SD to get to vote and be the final push over the top. The speculation is that he has in his pocket enough SDs to cover whatever the RBC does this weekend. If they put FL and MI in play, Obama simply has enough SDs announce Monday so he goes over on Tuesday.

It could happen that way, just as easy as any other.

(sorry to hear about the flooded room Leah, but glad the Blog saved you) ;o); May 31, 2008 1:02 AM
vwis said...: Aunt Jean must have take vacation with Yam.; May 31, 2008 1:05 AM
Unknown said...: --Apissedant,

"The airlines, auto industries, and many other companies promised huge pensions to all its workers, and the workers and the companies were supposed to be paying large contributions. These contributions were diverted into, "profit", for the company."

You're right, and what you're talking about is referred to as the "Pension Funds loophole," where companies were allowed to raise or reduce those funds in their quarterly financial statements in order to play with the OUTCOME and NET PROFIT figures.

They were usually able to re-balance those funds until the late 90's, or rather in 2000 and 2001, when the Stock Market crushed, and companies weren't able to refill those funds, and people weren't able to get their pensions. But I think a bill was passed in Congress (can't remember, either in 2003 or 2004) to fix this problem... rather reactive, don't you think!; May 31, 2008 1:06 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Emit- thanx.

______________

I did want to say in my other post, but I forgot...

I feel very fortunate that it is only one ceiling. About two hours after I discovered the mess - I came back outside to smoke a couple of cigarettes and was out here until the sun started coming up and I started thinking that I was very lucky compared to all of the people that have lost their whole homes in floods and tornadoes - so I really don't have much to complain about - my situation is basically an inconvenience but the people that lose their whole house it truly is tragedy that no one should ever have to experience.

It just reminds that we should count our blessings everyday even when things aren't going well.
___

Okay enough of that - come'on supers give us some news before bedtime!

OBAMA '08; May 31, 2008 1:14 AM
apissedant said...: jason,
Not confused at all. In fact I am quite the opposite. I love the policy side of politics, unfortunately most people spend all their time bickering about inconsequential stuff, and we never get to actually talk about making a difference. Policy is where that happens.

The 130 100 thing is supposed to be confusing. They made it that way on purpose. The idea is, you earn 130 dollars. The government charges you 23% income tax, so you're left with 100 dollars in spending money.
The fairtax says you earn 130 dollars. You get no taxes, so you have 130 dollars. A 30% tax is charged on all sold item, leaving you with 100 dollars in spending tax.
Therefore, they say that the fairtax is a 23% tax.; May 31, 2008 1:14 AM
Hippolytus said...: vwis said...
"Aunt Jean must have take vacation with Yam."
_________
They deserve each other. Best wishes to the (happy?) couple.; May 31, 2008 1:16 AM
apissedant said...: softspoken,
Yup, I know where Dam Neck is. I have two friends that live pretty much on that road, and I used to fix a car wash that is on that road. There's a little naval base there. Is that where you're going?; May 31, 2008 1:16 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Oregon Dem-

I really expected that another big name endorser would have showed up at Obama's rally in Florida like John Edwards did in Michigan - but I guessed that one wrong ;(

I think that a day or two after Tuesday the remaining 6 Pelosi Club members will endorse.

.; May 31, 2008 1:17 AM
Unknown said...: --Apissedant,

I used to go to VA Beach, I went to UVA for a little while, and lived in DC too.

Good night!; May 31, 2008 1:20 AM
apissedant said...: Leah,
I know we have only known each other for a short period of time, but I am spending my night with you when I should be in bed with my wife. I think the least that deserves is addressing me as well. Also, you sound markedly less positive. You are supposed to be my rock. I don't care if the house gets blown away by a tornado and takes your pet with it. I expect you to say more positives in every post than negatives. This is my new rule.; May 31, 2008 1:21 AM
apissedant said...: jason,
I lived in Frederick, MD for a year. I had a field technician job, and I got to spend all day sitting in DC traffic. I actually kind of miss it.; May 31, 2008 1:22 AM
vwis said...: The government was pressured to do so after Enron, Healthsouth, Tyco, and other companies filed bankruptcies. Their so called profit had been spent on extravagances of a few executives (ie. birthday parties) The workers lost their retirement funds. The funds had been taken from their paychecks (not truly pensions). They also enacted Sarbanes Oxley, designed by accounting firms, that forces public companies to pay more to accounting firms. The net result is that corporations are moving jobs overseas in part to avoid this. Also, take in to account that each worker in China works for $0. Looks pretty attractive to them.; May 31, 2008 1:23 AM
Oregon Dem said...: Leah:

When most folks go through what you did last evening they would complain about what had happened to them - and you just say you were thinking about the others with the floods and tornados and what they went through...

God Blees you Leah.; May 31, 2008 1:23 AM
apissedant said...: PS,
I know I said I was going to bed, and I swear I did, but I couldn't sleep. This stupid thread is addicting, plus I hate sleep.; May 31, 2008 1:24 AM
suzihussein22 said...: apissedant-Yes, that's where my sister-in-law's getting married. She was in the Navy for 17 yrs. Her fiance is an engineer in the Navy. She was able to get her education through the armed services. My husband will giving away his big sis.; May 31, 2008 1:25 AM
apissedant said...: Leah,
I had not yet gotten to your next post about how lucky you are compared to others. Ugh, you're so selfless it is ridiculous. Do you know how much of a douche I look like next to you? I know I just asked you to be more positive, but now you have taken it too far.; May 31, 2008 1:28 AM
Oregon Dem said...: OK - my take (not to mention my wife's take).
There are some of us who like each other (and this thread) too much.

Me included.

But the RBC starts its deliberations in 7.5 hours and not only is my wife calling - but I need some sleep - nite all.; May 31, 2008 1:31 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: apissedant -

I am sorry I did not mean to neglect you ;)

The computer IS addicting. But you have a wife in bed - you should turn off the computer and go in there and wake her up and pretend that you are on your honeymoon!

I don't think anything exciting is going to happen tonight on the computer. Tomorrow will be an exciting day if we all wake up in time to enjoy it!

OBAMA/Sebelius '08

Btw: what did everyone think of the alien photo that came out today? The photo that i saw online didn't look anything like the alien I saw a couple of years ago ;)
(Just joking!) But I did see some strange lights in the sky about 7-8 years ago one time in the middle of the night down in Galveston when I was staying at a beach house. And then last year when I was reading an article about the Phoenix lights the photo of that was just like what I saw in Galveston - now that is creepy!

.; May 31, 2008 1:33 AM
Unknown said...: --billyjay66

Maybe so, but that kind of proves my point.

What I'm saying is that by looking at others before judging them, it helps us better understand where they're coming from, why they hate us, or why they like us, why they don't care about us...
Now, the book you referenced is of a certain vision that is associated to our mindset (here in the US).

Now, can you read one that isn't?
and still not judge its content, but rather question your stance, and come up with a more informed decision?

Open your mind, that's all I'm asking!; May 31, 2008 1:34 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Goodnight Oregon Dem - sweet dreams!; May 31, 2008 1:35 AM
Unknown said...: Apissedant,

"Instead we're going to Holland to live with the socialists."

Where at least, you will have your medical bills paid for (to some extent).

Where in Holland are you settling?; May 31, 2008 1:36 AM
suzihussein22 said...: Good Night all wherever we are; May 31, 2008 1:39 AM
vwis said...: New endorsements,

O +40 1 to go

NOT REALLY. I was just trying to help Apissedant out. Most of us could go to bed happy.

Leah,

Good perspective! I'd say go to bed to you also, but I'm not sure you have one. Maybe the SDs knew your plight and decided to give you a break.

I'm punch my time card out. Bye.; May 31, 2008 1:42 AM
apissedant said...: jason,
I have not gotten around to it, but I am planning on reading a book called, "Democracy in America" for that very reason. It was written by a Frenchman in 1835, and I'm curious what other countries saw from the outside looking in. I've read about the French and English from an American perspective, I've read tons about America from an American perspective, but this will be my first chance to read something about America from a foreign perspective. All I have to do is finish reading all couple supreme court books, and it will move to the top of my list.; May 31, 2008 1:43 AM
apissedant said...: Leah,
she's pregnant and sleepy. In the morning she'll wake me up and we can get on to the good stuff, but she goes to bed too early at night for me.; May 31, 2008 1:44 AM
apissedant said...: Goodnight everyone that is so rude as to leave me. Ugh, when will people realize I'm the center of the universe!; May 31, 2008 1:45 AM
apissedant said...: jason,
Yes, all the medical bills will be paid. The insurance requires 90 bucks a month payment, and they cover 100%. Instead of the 0% paid here with our current lack of insurance. It's ok, soon Hillary will be president, and I'll be forced to by health care insurance even though I can't afford it.
We are moving to Emmen to start. That is where she is from. She just got her old job as a social worker back, so that'll be nice. She's actually moving next month, and then I'll meet her there in December once I get my degree. Then hopefully I'll get accepted to grad school and go to Groningen. That's the plan, but I've always been a dreamer. I've also always been obnoxious and persistent, which is remarkably helpful when attempting to achieve dreams.; May 31, 2008 1:49 AM
Unknown said...: -- Apissedant,

How can you miss DC traffic?
Well, if you lived in DC (or near DC), and worked in Frederick, then you kind of went against traffic, Otherwise, you were in it!

Well, personally I don't miss it at all, but I miss DC a lot, a very diverse "elitist" city where you can carry an intellectual conversation in a bar, not something you can do in Dallas; May 31, 2008 1:56 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: "Ugh, when will people realize I'm the center of the universe!"

_____

Be careful - that sounds almost like a Hillary quote ;)

.; May 31, 2008 1:57 AM
apissedant said...: Yeah, well I got paid while I was in traffic, and I didn't have to pay for gas. Some days I would start in Frederick, 30 miles north-west of DC, and for some stupid reason get sent to a site 30 miles east of DC. It would end up taking me two hours. I'd do 4 hours worth of work, and then spend two hours in traffic on the way back.
Now I'm in college and have no income. In comparison, I must say, DC traffic rocked. Also, I live on the Peninsula of Hampton Roads, and I go to school on the south side. This means I now have to deal with the HRBT every day. Oh, and it is my car, so not only do I have no income and still have nasty traffic, but I have to pay for the gas now!; May 31, 2008 2:01 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Speaking of DC...

I was 'conceived' in DC (July 1958 and arrived in Illinois in April) when my father was in the Navy :)

.; May 31, 2008 2:03 AM
Unknown said...: Leah,

"Be careful - that sounds almost like a Hillary quote"

Yeah, Apissedant is plagiarising again:); May 31, 2008 2:05 AM
Unknown said...: Apissedant,
I don't know that city, but the whole country is the sizy of Rhode Island (maybe exaggerating a bit...), so you can get around, go to Belgium and Germany (before winter, it's a lot nicer!).
Well, good luck in your endeavors.; May 31, 2008 2:07 AM
apissedant said...: Wow, a bunch of navy people here. Apparently the navy only votes republican while still in the navy. That shouldn't even count, because we're in a drunken stuper during those years!
Leah,
Great joke. I literally laughed out loud. I am not sure if you're that funny or if I'm that tired. I'll let you be the judge.; May 31, 2008 2:07 AM
Unknown said...: Leah,

You're kidding right?
You look so much younger, well if that is your pic:); May 31, 2008 2:09 AM
apissedant said...: jason,
Thanks, I went to visit her last year while we were sorting out the immigration paperwork for her to come here. We met while she was on a six year vacation two years ago. We hit Amsterdam, Groningen, Emmen, one other Dutch city, Antwerpen, Brussels, and had some German food at the border. We had a great time. She doesn't like Germany, but I'll drag her along so I can make up my own mind next time.; May 31, 2008 2:11 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Jason-

No, really I was born in 1959, just had my 49th B-day in April. And that is my photo, but it was taken when I was about 39. I wasn't trying to be deceitful - it's the only photo that I have on my laptop of me.; May 31, 2008 2:21 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: apissedant -

A SIX YEAR VACATION !!!

Wow - that's alot!
I thought my 3 month vacations to Italy was a long time - but image a SIX YEAR vacation! I'm jealous!

.; May 31, 2008 2:23 AM
apissedant said...: Leah,
meant six months. It's late ;); May 31, 2008 2:33 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Six months is a good time ;)
Much better than six weeks.
But six years would be awesome ;)

Obama 41 more delegates to go!; May 31, 2008 2:38 AM
Unknown said...: Leah,
I was just kidding, but you still don't look 39 on that picture.
Plus, reading your postings /reasoning, I really thought you were much younger.
Then I guess I thought a lot of people were younger!; May 31, 2008 2:54 AM
Unknown said...: Ok, folks

Have a good night; May 31, 2008 2:59 AM
Amot said...: Leah,
you know that your blog addiction is well paid - in the currency called friends :)
I believe at least dozen or more other bloggers were really concern about you. And if DCW really saved you from injury, that is karma! And the karma wants you blogging and I would add you have to make some/a lot/really a lot local agitation in order to deliver TX to Obama. What I really miss but you have the chance to do is phone calls, canvass and local agitation. People are really ignorant about the candidates.

It will be hard for all of us when the election is over, but we could gather and discuss The President's acts at 2012 DCW. Matt will give us some space probably named 'Ye Ole Friends Club'; May 31, 2008 3:28 AM
Amot said...: Guess what - I had my sleep already so now I am fired up ready to go and I am just waiting for C-Span to start the transmission!

:P; May 31, 2008 3:30 AM
Mike in Maryland said...: Jason,

Re: the end of year spending:

You said:
So, if that agency didn't spend as much this year, (because they were trying to keep the money for some program they're planning on running the following year),

Jason,

The federal government agencies (and most state and local agencies also) are given ANNUAL appropriations to do a specific set of jobs. They submit a budget of what they expect to need to perform the job they are supposed to do, it is approved by the appropriate body (Congress and President; state legislature and governor; city council; county government; etc.). Sometimes the budget is changed by the legislative body, usually down, sometimes up.

The budget submitted is legally supposed to ONLY include what the agency needs for operations for that year. Sometimes costs are not as high as they expected, or some expected need doesn't materialize, or not to the extent expected. Thus the agency would still have unspent funds at the end of the fiscal year. If it has funds left near the end of the year, it has a choice - return the money, or spend it during the time they have control of the money. Once the budget year expires, they can't spend that money any more.

Returning the money, though, could mean that the legislative body would think they overestimated the previous year, and as a result they will give less money the next year, because the agency didn't 'need' the money. Or the legislative body might think that the agency has such poor management that can't estimate it's budget needs, and thus would cut the budget in future years, again because the agency didn't 'need' the money. Most legislative bodies are of the mindset that if an error was made in the budget estimate, it can't be because the needs changed down (in terms of cost), so it must be the agency's fault, and therefore the legislative body takes action to make sure the agency's budget is 'corrected', and reduce it, no matter what explanation the agency would be able to give on why there is money left over.

There are very few agencies that can use money from one budget appropriation over a period of years. This happens when multiple years are needed to do a single task, such as build a building, a large ship, dams, locks, levee systems, etc.

The only federal agencies (that I can think of right now) that are usually given multi-year appropriations are Defense, usually for specific defense projects, such as an aircraft carrier or other major defense system, and including the Army Corps of Engineers, for locks, dams and levees, etc.; the General Services Administration, mostly for building major buildings, such as facilities for other agencies, court houses, post offices, etc.; and Energy, for various programs including creating, storage and 'disposal' of nuclear materials. We don't know what the intelligence agencies get, and if those are yearly appropriations or multi-year, but a lot is hidden in their appropriations, so who knows.

So a blanket statement that agencies could use 'excess' money from one year to reduce the next year's budget is wrong, precisely because of annual appropriations, and the attitude of the legislative bodies.

Mike; May 31, 2008 3:56 AM
Ariane said...: Yamaka (I see you are now called StopObamaNow)

You thanked me for answering that I certainly would pray for the health and well being of Hillary, Chelsea and Bill Clinton.
And I have prayed for them, in fact I had prayed for them before that.

You wrote that our common humanity unites us.

So in the spirit of that common humanity, I will now ask you in turn: Will you pray for the health and well being of Barack, Michelle, Malia and Sasha Obama?; May 31, 2008 4:14 AM
Mike in Maryland said...: vwis said...
They also enacted Sarbanes Oxley, designed by accounting firms, that forces public companies to pay more to accounting firms.

The intent of Sarbanes/Oxley was to make the Boards of public corporations responsible for the validity and accuracy of earnings reports and other financial documents and not hide the financial dealings that helped bring down corporations like Enron, Tyco International, Adelphia, Peregrine Systems and WorldCom.

The accounting firms were against Sarbanes/Oxley because it split up the accounting firms. Formerly, the accounting firms usually had two parts - one a management consulting part (advise the company on how to run the company, increase profit, rearrange the corporate profile to make more profit, etc.) which made the majority of the profits for the accounting firm, and the accounting side, which audited the books.

The problem was the consulting side would tell a company how to invest for more profit, and how to hide those investments from public view. Then when the auditing side of the same firm came in, the books didn't match.

So what happened? The auditors didn't report the irregularities caused by the consulting section of their firm - no profits, no company, no job.

Problem was, when the auditors didn't do their job, the companies went wild (Enron anyone?), and eventually the company couldn't hide all their losses, so went under (Enron anyone?). There went the jobs of thousands of employees, the pensions, the income of sub-contractors, and other local businesses (and their employees) who depended on the wages and salaries of the (now-failed) company. Businesses such as restaurants and diners, the local real estate industry, car dealers, etc., etc.

In essence, Sarbanes/Oxley came about because the accounting industry was not doing it's job of auditing the companies, and the management of companies was in collusion with the management AND auditing sections of the accounting firms to hide profits and/or losses from the public, especially the investment public. The accounting were called on the carpet, and didn't like it a bit. AND they had to split off the cash cows (consulting) of the firm, and then do their jobs as accounting firms.

So to state that Sarbanes/Oxley was 'designed by accounting firms' is incorrect.

Mike; May 31, 2008 4:15 AM
Ariane said...: Looking through comments I of course noticed the metamorphosis of Yamaka to StopObamaNow. Yam said he was going out of town for 2 weeks to visit his kids at college (During FINALS?!) But in the modern world Internet access is not difficult to find, and it was difficult to believe he would be able to restrain himself from posting more proclamations and instructions to SDs etc.

.....et voilà, the arrival of StopOBAMANow, in which I, like the others, immediately recognized our Yam. I see he has denied this personality but assuredly this is Yamaka. He uses similar capitalization of common nouns and the exact same phrases as Yamaka frequently used. Just to give a couple examples:
* "bleeding liberal". This is not a wording most people would casually light on. The usual phrase is "bleeding heart liberal". [NOTE: If you google the 2 separate phrases, "bleeding heart liberal" = 150,000 hits ; while Yam/StopObamaNow's "bleeding liberal"= 5000 hits- -and many of these are actually phrases like "bleeding liberal heart" or "bleeding liberal's heart". The incorrect or at least odd usage may be due to being a non-native speaker of English. (Not that I'm putting him down for that).

*"His heart is with the villain not the victim." . Exactly copied from previous Yamaka posts.

So why is Yamaka in disguise? Quite likely because he doesn't want to be here under that same name while his delusional math predictions become absolutely impossible. He was already very near that point.

Also, Yamaka wrote a while back that if Obama is the nominee he would support him, blog for him etc. --which is a bit difficult to credit considering the many lies and distortions he has written about Obama not to mention the racial resentments he seems to harbour. So, as that possibility loomed before him, he reincarnated himself with a blantantly anti-Obama handle.

......& I'm curious since Yamaka told us he's a delegate to the state convention, how's he going to be there supporting Hillary when that's during the same weeks he says he's supposedly out of the state? Another Hillary delegate not bothering to show up?

Has Yamaka at last given up on Hillary?????; May 31, 2008 7:17 AM
Peter said...: First of all, I loved Obamas attack on McCain regarding Iraq. Obama is gaining credibility on Iraq and that is a huge problem for McCain. National security is supposed to be his strength.

Second. I think we could see an interesting scenario regarding FL and MI. There are 28 undecided superdelegates in MI and FL. My personal belief is that a majority of those will endorse Obama. It is a long time since Clinton got any endorsement from MI/FL supers. If Obama gets a significant number of endorsements from MI/FL superdelegates following the RBC decision, it could completly destroy Clintons delegate claim. I think it also would be perfect for the unification of the party, it would tell people that MI/FL superdelegates think Obama has been acting fair on this issue and it would make Clinton look like she only cares about her own position.; May 31, 2008 7:27 AM
ed iglehart said...: Leah,

Commendable acceptance of adversity. There's always someone else getting hit worse. A couple of years ago I was watching folk being dug out from under earthquake rubble in Kashmir, when my son came rushing in to tell me to come outside. It still hurts, though.

I note y'all chatting about taxes and government spending, not to mention that, of our "generous" foreign aid, by far the largest portion goes to aid the oppression of the Palestinian natives.

Someone once gave me a handy rule of thumb to tell the difference between Millions and Billions - If it's aid, it'll be Millions, but if it's armaments, it'll be Billions

And, More wise words from a wise military man:

Akin to, and largely responsible for the sweeping changes in our industrial-military posture, has been the technological revolution during recent decades.

In this revolution, research has become central; it also becomes more formalized, complex, and costly. A steadily increasing share is conducted for, by, or at the direction of, the Federal government.

Today, the solitary inventor, tinkering in his shop, has been overshadowed by task forces of scientists in laboratories and testing fields. In the same fashion, the free university, historically the fountainhead of free ideas and scientific discovery, has experienced a revolution in the conduct of research. Partly because of the huge costs involved, a government contract becomes virtually a substitute for intellectual curiosity. For every old blackboard there are now hundreds of new electronic computers.

The prospect of domination of the nation's scholars by Federal employment, project allocations, and the power of money is ever present

* and is gravely to be regarded.

Yet, in holding scientific research and discovery in respect, as we should, we must also be alert to the equal and opposite danger that public policy could itself become the captive of a scientifictechnological elite. "

Just thinking, to kill the time until the RBC meeting closes...

Assalaam 'alaikum wa rahmatullaahi wa barakaatuhu
Peace, God's mercy and blessings be upon you
xx
ed; May 31, 2008 8:31 AM
apissedant said...: Mike,
You misunderstand Jason's statement. He said the exact same thing you said. He said when the end of the fiscal year arrives, they rush to spend all their money, because if they didn't, their budget for the next year would be reduced. Which he means to say that Congress and the President would say, "hmmm... well we gave these guys 4 billion dollars, and they only spent 3 billion. I got an idea, let's only give 'em 3 billion this year." This is bad for the people with the reduced budget. It could be that they had abnormally low costs in this year, or it could be that they may have an emergency expense next year. If their budget is reduced, they will be screwed. If their budget is raised or kept the same, they are good to go.; May 31, 2008 8:38 AM
Emit R Detsaw said...: Mike, JP, & Jason

While there were many years in the military where we saw management trying to spend out their budget (corporate America does the same thing), there were many more years where we had to stop flying the aircraft and cancel training in September because we had used all of the budgeted monies for the year.

The real budget thing in the Government is, if you don't spend it, you don't get that much the next year. In many cases I have seen both the Military and Corporate spend 2007 monies on things like office supplies and other staple items for 2008 so they can use the extra money for projects they would otherwise not get funded.

There is waste on both sides. That's part of our greedy human nature.; May 31, 2008 9:09 AM
apissedant said...: JP isn't here.; May 31, 2008 9:18 AM
Emit R Detsaw said...: greywolf

First - Thank You for your 22 years of service. Sorry to hear about the unemployment though. There are far too many ex-military folks in that position.

When I got out of the Air Force 5.5 years ago it took me almost 5 months to find a job. My AF job didn't help much. Not to many jobs for Armament type folks in the civilian world. Anyway, after working with the company for 3+ years my position was eliminate. Took a 15% pay cut to stay with the company in another job, but was fortunate that they moved me to Texas. Cut in the cost of living from California almost made up for the lost money.

Anyway, net result? Two more Texas voters for Obama (that were not registered in time to vote in the Primary).

Obama '08; May 31, 2008 9:26 AM
suzihussein22 said...: Leah-Maybe you would have heard something above you, but the coincedence can stand on its own.

UFO's-Yeah, I've been hearing them, oh wait it's cicadas!:) Seriously, I've seen a few, but does that mean they're of extraterrestrial origin? Who knows. They were awfully high up in the air to be planes and they moved really fast past each other.

apissedant-If the sun starts orbiting around VA, we'll know lol.

Mike in MD-Exactly! I've got friends at a University that needed a recruiting DVD Rom. Their budget had gotten cut in half. My husband made one at less than cost and the rest was a reverse donation. I also have friends in a University library that need suggestions of what to buy to spend any remaing funds-EVERYBODY-please feel free to post any titles with authors that they might not have yet. They sometimes buy them at BAMM.; May 31, 2008 9:46 AM
ed iglehart said...: Tales from Uncle Remus: Brer Hillary and the Briar Patch

;-)
ed

Despite the chance to be mis-taken, the Tar-baby overtones are irresistible!; May 31, 2008 9:49 AM
Anonymous said...: I decided to bust out the laptop for ongoing discussion throughout the meeting.

PS... I think I saw some of the politicians saying the pledge without a hand over their heart. The talking heads should have something to talk about like they went after Obama for it.; May 31, 2008 9:53 AM

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Tuesday, April 01, 2008

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