Democratic Convention Watch: Open Thread

Tuesday, April 01, 2008

Open Thread

WE'VE MOVED! Democratic Convention Watch is now at http://www.DemocraticConventionWatch.com

Who's going to win, who has a better chance against McCain, or whatever else is on your mind.

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4317 comments:

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Kujo said...: Donna Brazile,

I've watch Donna on CNN before and never gave her the credit she deserves. She always spoke as if she did not make up her mind but really had a hidden agenda.

I have a whole new respect.

I would love to hear her in a debate with Ickles or even Clinton.

Hats off to Donna.; June 02, 2008 1:10 AM
magia said...: hippolytus,

I think I made the point I wanted to make, but I also have studied French, so FYI:
chacun à son goût

Bonne nuit!; June 02, 2008 1:10 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: apissedant-

There was NO Hillary lock-out in my precinct. In fact they left the doors open past the time the sign-in was supposed to come to a close and they let people sign-in if they were late.

Hillary won my precinct:

Obama 8 delegates
Clinton 12 delegates

if I remember correctly.

The door was never locked and many people wandered in and out for a cigarette during the two hour process.

In my opinion Hillary did just did not like the idea that the second part of the Texas two-step was a caucus that counted for 1/3 of the state delegates that would attend the Texas Convention - so she made a fuss and whined a little bit and filed a couple complaints in order to get things to go better in her direction and it doesn't seem that it worked.

.; June 02, 2008 1:11 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: magia -

Buonanotte a te - sogni di oro!

Domani e` un altro giorno ;)

p.s. Sorry I don't know French - only Italian :); June 02, 2008 1:13 AM
Hippolytus said...: magia,
you did make your point, but I think that you might have missed mine, which is to tout the virtues of a political system that permits each state to come up with its own rules. I don't think that we need to demand that all states adopt primaries with uniform rules.; June 02, 2008 1:18 AM
Kujo said...: Maggie,

I agree we should have a popular vote contest instead of this messed up SD's and all of the rest of this mess. So next time lets have it.

But until then, we have to go with what the rules started out to be.

If I am playing a game I first understand the rules. In this case the rules was delegates. So why not lose a big state by 55-45 and only lose 4 delegates and go after one of these small states and win 80-20 and get 20 delegates. I spend my money wisely and play the way the game is ment to play. If it was a popular vote contest then strategy would be different and results would be different. Can not look at the results of this race and try to determine what the popular vote result would of been.

But lets face some facts. If Obama would win all categories of Popular vote (I am not ignorant enough to understand all the calculations of it), then you would be here arguing Electoral College. And if that did not work, you would be arguing Women Only. And if that did not work, Left handed red heads with back spasms.; June 02, 2008 1:19 AM
stopOBAMAnow said...: "These numbers point to a virtual 3 to 1 ratio in turnout for primary versus caucus. You have to acknowledge that the primary process allows more voter involvement, which for me is just more democratic."

magia:

I fully agree with you.

It is understandable because mostly Caucuses consume more time and energy. Busy people cannot afford to spend enormous time at the Caucuses!

Women with children, working and older Americans will shun spending lot of times with voting!

More of these people support Hillary. Therefore, she is handicapped by Caucuses.

I understand it well.

Most prefer Primaries.

I Prefer Primary. I hate spending too much time at the polling place. That's my view of the world!

The data support it.
----------------------------

Hi Yam:

Nice seeing you!

Well, as an Independent Moderate I agree with many of what you say in your posts!

As I said before, we are in the same page: You are Left Leaning Centrist and a fiscal conservative. I can relate to your experience and life philosophies!

Keep writing often.

I hate the RBC of DNC: they are all bunch of Cops breaking the Rule in reckless abandon!

How could they make Rules when they break so very often?

I hope SDs understand that they cannot Nominate someone who cannot win big when he has so much money - he spends 3 times more in OH, PA, KY, WV and PR than Hillary.

She won all these States with big margins.

How come no BHO supporter said anything good about the whopping margin Hillary had today at PR?

Very angry?; June 02, 2008 1:19 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Oops - my paragraph up above should have read:

In my opinion Hillary just did not like the idea that the second part of the Texas two-step was a caucus that counted for 1/3 of the state delegates that would attend the Texas Convention (BECAUSE SHE HAD NOT PREPARED IN ADVANCE FOR A CAUCUS, AND SHE STATED THAT SHE DID NOT KNOW THAT TEXAS WAS A TWO-STEP PROCESS) - so she made a fuss and whined a little bit and filed a couple complaints in order to get things to go better in her direction and it doesn't seem that it worked.; June 02, 2008 1:19 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Hippolytus-

I also do not want to see each state be forced into uniform rules.

But I would like to see the majority of the states eventually adopt the process like Oregon has.

Have all mail in ballots.
This way there would always be a paper back-up for recounts.

It would make the voting process easier for the people and more people might vote.

.; June 02, 2008 1:24 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Okay here is a fact.

On June 1st Hillary won Puerto Rico.

Here in Houston we heard CNN call the primary for Hillary and that she won by a big margin BEFORE 3pm Central time.

There has not been even 'one' superdelegate endorsement for Hillary in the past NINE hours since her win.

So where are those 200 superdelegates that Yam says are going to be jumping on the Clinton band wagon ?

OBAMA '08; June 02, 2008 1:28 AM
apissedant said...: leah,
I think kujo sums it up quite succinctly. The fact is a win is a win is a win. This has nothing to do with primaries, caucuses, electoral votes, popular votes, or anything else. The whole point is just the need to win. Hillary wants to win, and would find any way to explain away her loss and turn it into a win.; June 02, 2008 1:29 AM
apissedant said...: night for reals.; June 02, 2008 1:30 AM
Hippolytus said...: I agree that Oregon's mail in ballot procedure is an interesting option that other states should try. I'd also like to see some states offer voting over both weekend days, so that voting would not have to interfere with a Sabbath or (for most people) work obligations. I'm for anything that would maximize voter participation and convenience.; June 02, 2008 1:34 AM
stopOBAMAnow said...: "On Wednesday. the house will land on her, and we'll all be singing, "Din dong, the witch is dead!"

Hippo;

I am NOT sure that any such thing will happen on Wed.

Even if it happens some time in June, w/o Hillary's real sincere support do you think Obama can get 271 Evs? I doubt it.

How may EVs 18 million votes will get you? Not more than 50 Evs!!

First Obama has to get the support of most of Hillary's, then should get the nod of another 25 million atleast to aim for some respectable performance in the GE!

It's going to be very very very hard for Obama w/o Bill and Hillary Clinton, the Most Popular Candidate/Couple in America.

Yes, you may win the battle, but.. you will lose the war big time, Hippo! Please remember.; June 02, 2008 1:35 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: In this article Gary Hart says that he is supporting Obama:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/gary-hart/the-perserverance-of-idea_b_104560.html

I don't know if he said so before or not. And I believe he is NOT a superdelegate.

But the article is interesting.; June 02, 2008 1:44 AM
Kujo said...: stopsobbingnow:

One problem your having is that you think all the emotions that are out there will be out there 5 months from now.

Second, you think that all of Clintons Supporters have as much anger built up as you do.

Once the real race begins, the realization of difference of these 2 candidates will show. People will all of a sudden realize what it means to vote for McCaine... and most of the wont.; June 02, 2008 1:54 AM
Hippolytus said...: OK, stopObamanow/Yam:
I'll retract my Wizard of Oz scenario; schadenfreude as getting the best of me when I posted that. I'll fess up to that much (although I suspect that you'd be tempted to act the same way if the shoe were on the other foot). In any event, Hillary's supporters will come over to Obama once they get a good, stiff whiff of McCain, not because they're in love with Obama, but because they have no better option. I believe that most of them will be smart enough to see that Obama will be their best option, with the exception of a few outliers like our Aunt Jean. Who knows, maybe even she will come around in the coming months.; June 02, 2008 1:58 AM
stopOBAMAnow said...: "I don't think that we need to demand that all states adopt primaries with uniform rules."

Hippo:

If it is okay for the GE, then not for the Primary?

In fact we should just follow what the GE format is, and the EV Methodology, like the Repubs.

Here is the Irony of All Time:

We say we want "Proportional Representation" in one breath, and in the next minute we turned around and allow the RBC steal 4 PDs from one of the Candidates and give it to a Candidate who did NOT want it during the Primary, as in MI!

Where is the simple logic? Where is the Fair Reflection?
All manipulated bogus baloney!

Just simplify the process: Primary and EV Methodology, period.
______________________________

Guys:

Rules are Rules are Rules! Yes, there are hundreds of useless Rules all around us! Yes, TD count matters.

Only when Rules help to measure the ACTUAL REALITY ON THE GROUND as to the Real Strength of the Candidate.

When one Candidate leads in Popular Vote and another leads in TD, pause and ask the question, why so?

Why both don't go hand in hand?

Why do they diverge? Which is more reliable measurement of the strength of the Candidates?

These are reasonable questions the remaining 200 SDs must ask, and honestly answer the questions.

Otherwise, a virtual victory will take us to a disastrous reality in the Fall.

This time is historically different. Let the Rules reveal the Truth - not the fantasy!!; June 02, 2008 1:59 AM
Hippolytus said...: kujo:
Well said. You said it better and more succinctly than I did.; June 02, 2008 1:59 AM
vwis said...: Ant,

Although, I believe you've checked out. My statement regarding caucuses not counting was sarcasism. I was merely mirroring Clinton's point of view. I definitely believe in free speech.; June 02, 2008 2:00 AM
Bull Schmitt said...: So now we have Yamalamadingdong (faux Democrat) and slopYOMAMAnow ("independent moderate"). Who do I have to pay to spawn a third, "Archie Bunker conservative" persona, and get the 'three' of them to debate concern trolling points for Sen. Obama?

Yammer, you're funnier than Terry McAuliffe trying to make a case to the Superdelegates, or John McCain trying to explain his economic policy - keep up the good work!

:-); June 02, 2008 2:03 AM
stopOBAMAnow said...: kujo/Hippo:

Assume for a second that Obama is the Nominee.

McCain makes a very shrewd move of taking an experienced woman as VP who is NOT pro-life.

Boom... a lot of Hillary's supporters will say Hmmmmmm... "I have a choice now.

I can lean Right for this GE!"

Experience Matters for the TOP Job. Training on the Job is very expensive and dangerous.

W Bush = Inexperience = 9/11 = Disaster.
Obama = Inexperience = Disaster!

Stop Obama Now. He is ObaBush!; June 02, 2008 2:07 AM
vwis said...: Stopobamanow,

I was reading the Huffington about Donna Brazile. They should be thanking their lucky stars to have gone up against such a worthy opponent. I almost hope they take it to the Credential Committee and end up with 50/50. Their kind of politics should upset the public and the DNC. They have a way forward not backwards and have decided to take it.; June 02, 2008 2:11 AM
Hippolytus said...: stopObamanow/Yam:
You're missing the point when you suggest that Obama "stole" 4 delegates that Clinton had. She never had them, because Michigan did not hold a legally valid primary. Personally, I would have been just as happy if the RBC had stuck to their guns and enforced a 100% penalty against FL and MI, but I recognize that it was not politically palatable to do so. By adopting the Michigan compromise, the RBC did not validate the popular votes cast in a flawed election. They acquiesced in a political settlement made at the behest and suggestion of the Michigan Democratic Party itself. If I could waive a magic wand, I would have given Clinton her 73 delegates in MI just to shut her (and Ickes) up, but that's water under the bridge, and the resulting 2 vote difference will be of no practical consequence in view of the size of Obama's certain victory. Instead of herumphing, Ickes should have kept his mouth shut and been grateful that Obama didn't shove a 50/50 split down his throat (which I'm guessing he could have done had he wanted to embarrass her).
As for the rest of my post, I've made the case for state by state experimentation before, and will not belabor it. Sufficed to say that good arguments can be made on either side of the pluralism/uniformity argument.; June 02, 2008 2:18 AM
Hippolytus said...: stopObamanow said: [suppose]
"McCain makes a very shrewd move of taking an experienced woman as VP who is NOT pro-life.
Boom... a lot of Hillary's supporters will say Hmmmmmm... "I have a choice now."
______________
If you think Hillary supporters are dumb enough to fall for that gambit, then you have less respect for them than I do.; June 02, 2008 2:23 AM
vwis said...: Hippo,

You should read the Donna Brazile article I just posted.

Leah,

She could also retire in AR. They love her. Personally, her best chance at presidency is if she moved to PR and lead them to vote to become independent. She then could have them vote for her as their president. Next she could become a dictator and strip them of their voting rights by only allowing herself to run against uncommitted. Fidel is a pussy cat compared to her.; June 02, 2008 2:29 AM
Hippolytus said...: I'd love to stay, but I've got to go now. If anyone wants to comment on my recent posts, I'll check the thread and respond tomorrow. Good night, everyone.
"Good night moon,
Good night stars,
Good night Bill,
with his cigars..."; June 02, 2008 2:32 AM
vwis said...: To whomever is out there,

I love the move that Obama is going to be in MN on Tuesday night. With the support of few SDs that will really jab at McCain and the GOP.; June 02, 2008 2:35 AM
vwis said...: Good night,
Good night supers. I pray you all come to your wits and put an end to it. Unless Hillary has a change of heart over night. That is if she has one. I'm sure Bill ate it a long time ago.; June 02, 2008 2:44 AM
tmess2 said...: I think I will point out before going to bed that not all states have the same rules for electoral college. Two states award electoral votes by congressional district. A significant minority require the electors to vote for the popular vote winners, but other state leave them free to vote for the candidae of their choice (which if their party has chosen well is the popular vote winner).

More fatal to the argument, however, is that there is no constitutional requirement that the states use the same rule. Under the Constitution, if my state wanted to choose its electors by random lottery, it could. The similarity of the states for the general election is the result of history and tradition not a legal requirement. That same history and tradition has produced a divergence of approaches to the selection of delegates. Both are equally legally valid.; June 02, 2008 3:09 AM
Amot said...: RIGHT, MAGIA!

I have never been rude toward your candidate. Many times I have used numbers instead of talking emotions. I am constantly trying to be more gentle person than I really am, cause in real life I crush people I dislike. Instead I made my best to find the tiny bits of positivism Hillary has and emphasize them in order to achieve unity. I will continue my policy till the end of the week. But if your candidate wants to secure third Bush term, I will start speaking my mind uncensored next week.

BTW, Hillary won PR that big due to the republicans. There was a question asked at exit polls: "Your opinion on G.W.Bush?" 38% answered favorable and 81% of them voted Clinton. Those are 30% of the total votes. And she won the vast majority of war fans too.

I am glad she pretends she won the popular vote. Maybe she has to mention she won 500K Republican votes too since March, voters that also stated they hate her. Those are numbers, pure facts and no insinuations. I wish everyone was using facts...; June 02, 2008 3:12 AM
suzihussein22 said...: Mornin' y'all-

Y-Let make sure I'm on top of this...I'm a day-dreaming, lunatical infestation...just checking...and I see now more people should be expected to go to the next causus since they managed to get to that hearing and now realize how much is at stake.

Bill Schmitt-Are you a meathead?:); June 02, 2008 7:35 AM
suzihussein22 said...: For what it's worth-

http://tinyurl.com/3p643r; June 02, 2008 7:42 AM
ed iglehart said...: Piss-ant,

I agree with you in support of Leah's sense of humour, which I share. ;-)

Remember, when speaking of Athenian democracy, it was only male non-slaves who met under that tree. The Socratic dialogue of Phaedrus is well worth a read, btw. Referenced here, I think.

Love and peace to all.
ed; June 02, 2008 8:11 AM
Independent Voter said...: John McCain right now in front of AIPAC still claims that naming the Iranian Republican Guard a terrorist organization was a good move (which Clinton also agreed).

I would say this is a good idea IF AND ONLY IF Bush was NOT president. By naming them a terrorist organization at the time that they did granted Bush the permission to attack Iran. Again, this is the ONLY reason I would have gone against the move. Anybody but Bush AND McCain would handle the situation rationally, but because these two individuals are just as delusional as they are trigger happy, I, like Obama, would not support the move.; June 02, 2008 10:13 AM
golfman8042 said...: My thought all along has been that Obama would receive enough SD endorsements today and tomorrow (perhaps 30) that he would easily clinch the magic number based on the final primary numbers tomorrow pm.

Here is another scenario, however.

Obama has a rally planned Tuesday night in Minneapolis in the Xcel Energy Convention Center --significant because it is the site of the RNC gathering in September. Obviously he is planning to secure the nomination and declare an official beginning to the GE season.

What if only a few SDs endorse today and tomorrow, and Obama gains about 17 PDs from the primaries, leaving him short... But during his speech he marches out onto the stage with him a host of SDs (including some who had previously endorsed Clinton) led by Jimmy Carter. That would be a pretty dramatic end to the primary.; June 02, 2008 10:23 AM
JayW said...: Some of HRC's best:

"My husband did not wrap up the nomination in 1992 until he won the California primary somewhere in the middle of June, right? We all remember Bobby Kennedy was assassinated in June in California. You know, I just, I don't understand it." --on why she is staying in the race

"I'm not going to put my lot in with economists." --after being asked by George Stephanopoulos about economists' claims that her gas tax holiday proposal would not bring down gas prices

"I remember landing under sniper fire. There was supposed to be some kind of a greeting ceremony at the airport, but instead we just ran with our heads down to get into the vehicles to get to our base." --on visiting Bosnia in 1996, contradicting other accounts that said there was no threat of gunfire. Clinton later said she "misspoke"

"On a couple of occasions in the last weeks, I just said some things that I knew not to be the case." --on misspeaking about her Bosnia visit

"Senator Obama says he is getting tired of the campaign, his supporters say they want it to end. Could you imagine if Rocky Balboa had gotten half way up those art museum stairs and said, 'Well, I guess that's about far enough.' When it comes to finishing the fight, Rocky and I have a lot in common. I never quit, I never give up and I know that were going to make it together, not just up those stairs, but were going to climb that mountain for a better day for America."

"The question is, we face a lot of dangers in the world and, in the gentleman's words, we face a lot of evil men. And what in my background equips me to deal with evil and bad men?" --laughing off a question from a voter who asked Clinton what qualified her to deal with leaders from countries such as Iran and North Korea

"I just want to add, I did not say that it should be done, but I certainly recognize why Gov. Spitzer is trying to do it. And we have failed." --responding in a Democratic debate to New York Gov. Elliot Spitzer's plan to give drivers' licenses to illegal immigrants. Moments earlier, Clinton had said, "They are driving on our roads. The possibility of them having an accident that harms themselves or others is just a matter of the odds."

"Aww don't feel noways tired. I've come too faarrr from where I started frum." --adopting a Southern drawl while speaking at a church (Watch video clip)

"We are going to take things away from you on behalf of the common good."

"God bless the America we are trying to create."

"I have to confess that it's crossed my mind that you could not be a Republican and a Christian."

"We have a lot of kids who don't know what works means. They think work is a four-letter word."

"I have said that I'm not running and I'm having a great time being pres -- being a first-term senator." --on her presidential ambitions

"I'm not going to have some reporters pawing through our papers. We are the president."

"He ran a gas station down in St. Louis... No, Mahatma Gandhi was a great leader of the 20th century." --introducing a quote by Mahatma Gandhi

"Who is going to find out? These women are trash. Nobody's going to believe them." --on Bill Clinton's bimbo eruptions

"If I didn't kick his ass every day, he wouldn't be worth anything." --on Bill Clinton

"I suppose I could have stayed home and baked cookies and had teas, but what I decided to do was to fulfill my profession which I entered before my husband was in public life."; June 02, 2008 10:27 AM
Bob in Vancouver said...: You know, this is better than the "The Tortoise and the Hare" fable. I wonder if we will be telling our kids the bedtime story of "The Clinton and the Obama Race" and how the Clinton candidate had everything to start with but laid back on her laurels before Super Tuesday, yet the Obama candidate eventually won with superb organization and dedicated persistence?; June 02, 2008 10:28 AM
apissedant said...: vwis,
Apparently my sense of irony peters out at night. I see it now, thanks for the clarification.

ed,
Leah is both entertaining and insightful, and I would hate for someone to sour her contributions to this thread. I am glad we can agree on this.
As for Athens... true enough. It is great that we have become more tolerant and included as many people as possible in the democratic process over time.; June 02, 2008 10:33 AM
apissedant said...: golfman,
I am thinking a scenario like that may play out. I think the Pelosi club would be great for the over the top push. I think that whether it is done by PDs tomorrow, or by SDs tomorrow night, it will be a rather large group of delegates all at once.; June 02, 2008 10:43 AM
Mug said...: Feminazis are gearing up to betray the country by their bitter vendetta.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5drJ0LtJMZw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ADh18AP1vQM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6nbp3KddRvA; June 02, 2008 10:44 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Hipp shut the hell up your post of 11:56 was uncalled for.; June 02, 2008 10:53 AM
Independent Voter said...: Jayw, you forgot........"God bless rich people like you and me Bill" - Bill O'Really interview on April 30th.; June 02, 2008 11:05 AM
Aunt Jean said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; June 02, 2008 11:05 AM
Vicki in Seattle said...: Aunt Jean, that rant of yours last night - I saw it before it was erased - THAT was uncalled for.; June 02, 2008 11:07 AM
Bull Schmitt said...: softspoken22 @ 7:35am -

"Bull Schmitt-Are you a meathead? :)"

Nicely played, but Rob Reiner is supporting someone else ;)

- - - - - - - - - - - - - -

bob in vancouver -

Indeed, never has a campaign overcome such overwhelming advantages to finish second.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - -

And to all you Chicken Littles out there -

Of course there will be a number of loud, attention-seeking people (in this case women) looking for their "15 minutes". The proof in the pudding will be Obama-McCain polls about a month from now, as the 90+% of Clinton-supporting Democrats go through the stages of grief. This has happened in every primary election since the dawn of time.

Remember that the 100,000+ vitriolic posts from "hillaryis44" come from 300-400 individual people. Lots of attention, few actual voters attached to the effort.; June 02, 2008 11:07 AM
JayW said...: Aunt Jean,

You really sound like a bitter old lady. Chill out.

Obama is going to win the general election and there is nothing that the reublicans or you, with your rantings, can do about it.

Look at the polls. Obama vs. McCain. Obama wins.

HRC can go live out the rest of her days in the pasture... she is done politically. Especially if she doesnt shut her hole soon and accept defeat. Every day she looks less classy than the day before.; June 02, 2008 11:10 AM
Aunt Jean said...: MUG that's right baby remember the quote: Hell Has No Fury Like A Woman Scorned but in this case it's obama stealing the race with the media's help. LOL LOL LOL LOL Jean; June 02, 2008 11:10 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Jawy it figures that you are a AA because of the BS that comes out of that trasty mouth. Jean; June 02, 2008 11:12 AM
stopOBAMAnow said...: "They acquiesced in a political settlement made at the behest and suggestion of the Michigan Democratic Party itself."

Hippo:

Here is the irony as I see it:

The Original Villain in the whole ordeal was MI Democratic Party, who in the name of Reform, jumped the line! Now they bring a proposal and the Czarist Arrogant RBC embraces them with smile and warmth!

On the legality of the election itself: Both MI and FL State Govt certified the Primary to be legal.

The issue has been with the DNC to seat their delegates or not.

Not the legality of the Primary itself.

Here is how the RBC violated its own Rule:

1. As per the Rule already on the Books, any State jumping the Date Line will be penalized 1/2 PD. Why did they totally strip the total delegates from MI and FL? This is the illegality of their own action in violating their own Rules already on the Books. It's sheer arrogance and the sense of Czarist raw power to parley!

2. The Saturday Meeting should have been convened on the 1 Feb to resolve the Conflict which THEY created it in the first place by stripping the whole delegation from MI and FL. Sloppily they waited 4 months to come to grips with their own illegality!

3. Where is the Fairness to give a Candidate who refused to be on the ballot the whole "Uncommitted" votes which belong to 3 other people PLUS 4 more PDs stolen from another Candidate who won the State?

Absolute lunacy and incompetence in simple clean thinking.

In short, the Villains of the RBC and shenanigans of MI Democratic Party made the horrendous mockery of the Fair Reflection Doctrine of the Charter of the Democratic Party!

Beneficiary of this ill-gotten bounty is Obama, the most divisive politician in recent memory!

The start of the Beginning of the End of the Party belongs to the RBC!
______________________________

Hello Donna Brazile lovers:

She said, "I will quit the RBC or Party if the SDs call this Primary"
in Jan 2008.

Why is she around the RBC/Party now? Let her quit.

The big dirty mouth! She is the First Rule Breaker! Her Moma taught her how to break the Rules!

Rules are the Rules, Don't break it 9 months ago! A 1/2 PD sanction as per the Rule should have been upheld from Day One, as the Repubs did!! Very sloppy RBC and the DNC!!

__________________________________

WBush = Inexperience = Disaster.
Obama = Inexperience = Disaster.

Stop Obama Now. He is ObaBush.; June 02, 2008 11:17 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Vicki I totally disagree with you. What he said [which you failed to mention] was totally uncalled for. I always wondered why he talked so bad about Hillary now I know it's because he's AA and has no respect for any race besides his. Jean; June 02, 2008 11:18 AM
Vicki in Seattle said...: what he did or said is immaterial.

you can only control what you say or do. I can only control what I say or do.

and what you said, IMHO, was totally uncalled for. your continuing rants are irrational. IMHO.

have a nice day.; June 02, 2008 11:22 AM
apissedant said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; June 02, 2008 11:26 AM
dsimon said...: stopobamanow: As per the Rule already on the Books, any State jumping the Date Line will be penalized 1/2 PD. Why did they totally strip the total delegates from MI and FL?

Check the rulebook. It says states in violation will be penalized at least half their delegates. That means the penalty can be more than 50%. Hence the DNC did not violate its own rules.

I don't believe the DNC had any obligation to resolve MI and FL on Feb. 1. And if they had done so, they would have been accused of taking away from those states the chance to correct their violations while there was still time for them to do so.

The Michigan vote cannot be seen as fairly representative of the will of the Michigan voting electorate, so the committee did the best they could under the circumstances.; June 02, 2008 11:27 AM
Vicki in Seattle said...: besides, isn't HRC a great friend of the AA population? Bill, too?

what would HRC think of these racist rants?; June 02, 2008 11:27 AM
vwis said...: BobinV,

Yes. This is what we will tell our children.

Bill and Hill went up to The Hill!
to fetch their pails of water,
Bill fell down and broke his crown,
and Hill came tumble after.

And the children sang to the tune of Kumbahyah;
Obama, my Lord where is ya,
Obama, Obama, Obama.

That is my recap.; June 02, 2008 11:27 AM
JayW said...: Aunt Jean....

Two more comments:

1) Could you please learn to spell? What is a trasty mouth? (See 11:12 AM post)

2) Could you please take your picture off your profile? Everytime I see it I throw up a little in my mouth.

Thanks.; June 02, 2008 11:28 AM
apissedant said...: Aunt Jean,
Your comments are offensive and disturbing. I see no reason for your continued racist insults. I am also curious if you have actually read your posts. You sound like a 10 year old girl. Your command of the English language is at best, laughable.; June 02, 2008 11:30 AM
Aunt Jean said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; June 02, 2008 11:32 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Jayw if you think I'm white trash what does that make you SHIT on the bottom of my shoes.Plus I think your mama has been playing in the wood pile. LOL LOL LOL LOL that I rub off on the grass you racist white bigot. Jean; June 02, 2008 11:35 AM
billyjay66 said...: aunt jean read what you said

"Jawy it figures that you are a AA because of the BS that comes out of that trasty mouth. Jean"

Name calling gets us nowhere and you notice I never have. But at least recognize you have a problem giving an AA in equal shot.; June 02, 2008 11:36 AM
apissedant said...: stop,
Please think about what you're saying. George W. Bush had even more experience than Hillary had. Obama has more experience than both of them.
Bush is the grandson of a Congressman, the son of a Congressman, the son of a VP that served 8 years, and the son of a President that served for years. This is a grand total of 25 years of osmosis experience. He then himself spent 6 years as governor. This is 6 years of actual experience.
HRC was the wife of a governor for 8 years, and the wife of the president for 8 years. This is 16 years of osmosis experience.
She was then a senator for 6 years. This is 6 years of actual experience.

Obama on the other hand, has over 10 years of ACTUAL experience. He has 0 osmosis experience.; June 02, 2008 11:37 AM
dsimon said...: Aunt Jean: Now to settle this last night the only way Obama can win the pop. vote is if you give him all of the uncommitted votes in Michigan. Since he didn't even get a vote in michigan that does away with that even if you give him half of the uncommitted he still doesn't win pop. vote Hillary does do there.

Clinton has never explained why the popular vote should matter when the process is a delegate contest. But even assuming that the "popular vote" expresses the "will of the people" even if the candidates aren't fighting over that number, Clinton's calculation in Michigan undermines her own argument. She counts over 300,000 votes for her and zero for everyone else. That result can't possibly represent the "will of the people" in Michigan.

The fact that she sees the vote in Michigan as legitimate at all also undermines her claim. I don't know how anyone can look at the situation around that vote and say it was fairly contested. And when election procedures are so severely flawed, we do more damage to democracy by accepting the results than by rejecting them.

I might could see obama getting half of the uncommitted....If that isn't stealing I don't know what is.

I think for Clinton to claim delegates from a clearly invalid vote could also be deemed stealing. If the vote should not be recognized to begin with, then there's nothing to steal. In addition, we don't know how many people stayed home because their candidates' names weren't on the ballot (voting "uncommitted" is not the same as voting for a specific candidate). Had supporters of other candidates had more of an incentive to turn out, Clinton would have gotten a smaller percentage of the vote than she actually did. Consequently, the compromise that was approved can be seen as generous to her.

Obama desn't have a chance in hell to win

That's not what the polls say. They say he certainly has a good chance. It's certainly not no chance. He may or may not win, but I think it's a bit of an overstatement to say he can't win, especially in the face of the available data.; June 02, 2008 11:37 AM
Aunt Jean said...: apissedant instead of looking at mind look at some of the obama supporters. Leave me alone if all you are going to do is insult.I'm not being racist just telling it like it is like it's been for to long. Jean; June 02, 2008 11:37 AM
Aunt Jean said...: apissedant if obama has more experience then I have ocean front property to sale you in tenn. What a joke LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL> Just a minute I've laughed so hard that I'm going to puke!!! Jean; June 02, 2008 11:41 AM
Aunt Jean said...: apissedant because he looks AA in his pic. and because he is always making racist remarks about Hillary .; June 02, 2008 11:42 AM
apissedant said...: Also, my only insult is that your command of the English language is at the level of a 10 year old. I am sure if you actually send in your post to an English teacher, they will inform you of this. You could not possibly pass a college exit exam, or even a 6th grade SOL with the poor language skills you are exhibiting. This is less of an insult, and more of a fact. It is not personal, just an evaluative analysis.; June 02, 2008 11:43 AM
apissedant said...: Aunt Jean,
That is a picture of Barack Obama. Try to catch up. He is the 12 foot white guy in the background wearing a cape.; June 02, 2008 11:44 AM
Aunt Jean said...: billyjay66 I keep telling you obama supporters that it is NOT BECAUSE HE IS AA I DON"T TRUST HIM BECAUSE HE IS LIEING TO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE> Yes I have meet plenty of AA's that were racist against whites so don't try and tell me that it doesn't exist!! The reason I said that to jayw is because of the remarks he made about Hillary and he looks black in his pic. So I thought that he had a problem with whites. But come to find out he's not AA just a bigot.Jean; June 02, 2008 11:47 AM
Aunt Jean said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; June 02, 2008 11:49 AM
billyjay66 said...: aunt jean

When you are in a hole..... stop digging!!!

It would take some time to go find your quote but re: The ....and Bobby Kennedy was assassinated weekend. You said dong it to him (Obama) would not be worth the trouble. Give it a rest this is so offensive.; June 02, 2008 11:49 AM
apissedant said...: I am tired of all these anti-white white people. It is ridiculous. Why must you persist in continually knocking down and insulting white people. Do you know how hard it was to keep all those unruly black slaves in line? They were essentially animals, and it took us years to train them to be at least somewhat productive. We did them a favor; we fed them, put a roof over their head, and taught them how to be domesticated.
Now all you silly bleeding heart white people feel guilty and have freed them from their chains. See what you have done? Now they are unemployed criminals destroying our society. We spent centuries domesticating them, and in just a century and a half, you have erased all the good we have done. You silly white people just need to analyze the data and you'll see how wrong your silly human rights actions have been.; June 02, 2008 11:53 AM
Aunt Jean said...: apissedant now you are being silly.Have I ever [and if you say yes prove it]said that aa's should be treated differently NO!!!!! I've said that we are all Americans and should be treated equally.But that is the key word [EQUALLY} Jean; June 02, 2008 12:00 PM
Dr. in Ann Arbor said...: unsubscribe.delusionalrantings.auntjean/stopobamanow.listsrv; June 02, 2008 12:02 PM
The Knight Family said...: Long time reader, first time poster.
This following comment was made and so far I have not noticed anybody else commenting on how absurd it was.

magia said:
WA:
attended caucus:244,458
votes in primary: 691,381

Maybe there are no other Washingtonians on this site but I can tell you that those assumed caucus numbers are so phony it is laughable.

WA held its caucus either one or two weeks before the primary. (honestly, I forget) EVERYWHERE, the news, the paper, the radio, all called our primary a "beauty contest." ALL said, if you want your vote for president to count: CAUCUS.

I am the mother of two children and I brought them to a PACKED caucus. I live in the University District of Seattle and there were TONS of students. I repeat, TONS. However, I did not go to the primary. All my neighbors, who I saw at our caucus, did not vote in the primary either. And I am sure that most of those students did not either. That estimated number of voters in Washington's caucus listed by magia is more likely just the voters in Seattle!

That is all I have to say really. There were a bizillion people at the WA caucus. And not a lot at our primary.

And I like caucusing. I did it is 2004 and now in 2008. And I bring my kids.; June 02, 2008 12:06 PM
Dilbuck said...: Aunt Jean,

Do yourself a huge favor and walk away from the keyboard. First, you generalized the AA community by saying that the outnumber the amount of white people on welfare. Now you call jayw immature and juvenile because you thought he was an AA male. I see now why you will not vote for Obama in the GE and it has absolutely nothing to do with his character or policies, but by the color of his skin.; June 02, 2008 12:08 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Now to settle this, last night the only way Obama can win the pop. vote is if you give him all of the uncommitted votes in Michigan. Since he didn't even get a vote in michigan that doesn't apply even if you give him half of the uncommitted votes he still doesn't win pop. vote Hillary does so there! Also one more thing I hope that either Hillary goes to the convention and raises hell about her getting screwed in Michigan. I might could see obama getting half of the uncommitted. Which the DNC didn't even get that right. I guess they are to stupid it is 40% not 44% the idiots. Then they should just let the rest of the delegates go where they want to. No what happened they gave all of it to obama and then they gave him the right to make sure that all the delegates endorses him. But of course most of the DNC that voted on this was his endorsements. I wonder how that happened. If that isn't stealing I don't know what is. Well I hope you enjoy 4 more years of republicans in office because that is exactly what you we are going to get. I hope everyone of you feel good about it because it will be YOUR FAULT!!!!!!Obama doesn't have a chance in hell to win unless the media treats McCain like they did Hillary then maybe. Jean

ps. is this alittle better LOL LOL .; June 02, 2008 12:08 PM
JayW said...: Aunt Jean,

You are awesome...

I go away from the computer for 30 minutes, I come back and in that time you have posted 12 more IDIOTIC posts.

You should really just stop. Every time you say something you are embarrassing yourself and showing your lack of education and class. (Not that you had anyone fooled, we all know that you are basically the "least common denominator" of our society.)

But, if it wasn’t for people like you we wouldn’t have an example to show our kids of what happens when education isnt taken seriously.

So for that, thanks.; June 02, 2008 12:11 PM
RobH said...: Dr. in Ann Arbor,

Is that a joke, or does that actually notify someone of something?

I just e-mailed Matt & Oreo to tell them a poster has gone nuclear here. Don't know what good it will do. But the stooping to undisguise cursing (the seven words0) and direct racial ephithet will not stand.

BTW, don't seek to remove stopobamanow and/or Yam, he serves a useful purpose here. He's the perfect tool for us, if you know what I mean.; June 02, 2008 12:11 PM
Dr. in Ann Arbor said...: Now, I'm no doctor (oh wait...yes I am), but I truly believe that Aunt Jean might be living proof that first cousins shouldn't marry and have children together....; June 02, 2008 12:12 PM
Aunt Jean said...: dilbuck I was just telling the truth you have heard of that right. It shows that most obama supporters and obama doesn't know the truth if it hit them between the eyes.As far as knowing why I won't vote for obama either obama supporters or deaf or they just don't won't to listen but I refuse to justify my actions as to why I won't vote for that LIAR!!! Jean; June 02, 2008 12:12 PM
Dilbuck said...: Aunt Jean,

At least 5 of the Clinton supporters on the panel agreed with the results in Michigan. In fact 8 Clinton supporters voted against the Michigan resolution out of 13. Only 8 of the members sitting on the RBC were Obama supporters so it was really a draw between the supporters. 5 Clinton supporters voted with the resolution as did the undeclared. But really go ahead and keep throwing out you Hillary propaganda while you still can because in 48 hours this thing is OVER.; June 02, 2008 12:12 PM
jpsedona said...: Yammers,

How's that math working for ya?

It looks like your predictions on the RBC meeting were a touch off.

It looks like Hillary is ready to give her swan song speech as earlier as tomorrow night.

Sounds like the popular vote argument will fall on deaf ears.

It seems like the "silent majority" will remain silent.

Oh well, there's always 2016.; June 02, 2008 12:14 PM
Dr. in Ann Arbor said...: RobH:

No - no notification that I know of. Just a way to vent a little...as was my second post.

But BOY how I wish it would work. I know what you mean about St. Opobam Anow (no - I know he's not a Saint, but I like that spelling better). Maybe I should take him off the unsubscribe request...; June 02, 2008 12:14 PM
Aunt Jean said...: DR in ann arbor if you are a doctor I'm the queen of England. You are about one sick Piece Of SH##. Jean; June 02, 2008 12:14 PM
Dilbuck said...: Aunt Jean,

The truth? The truth and fact is that there are more white people on welfare than AA's. However, I know how your truth seems to work. You just make up your "truth" as you go along.

On another note please refrain from name-calling or vulgarity. I think most of us are adult enough to not do this. If you get that upset over a political thread you need to walk away and cool off.; June 02, 2008 12:18 PM
Mug said...: Aunt Jean,

Please spare me the conspiracy theories about how Obama and the media conspired against Clinton.

Were there sexist statement made by the media? Yes!

Were there gender insensitive statements made by Obama? Yes!

Were there racially insensitive statements made by Clinton? Yes!

Were there smears in the media about Obama? Yes!

If the feminazis want to vote for McCain because (A)They believe the media was unfair to Hillary and (B)they believe the DNC ruling on MI and FLA was unfair, then they really need to show a little maturity. (A)Obama shouldn't be punished for what the media has said. (B)There was ample opportunity to question DNC rules a year ago when they were set and agreed to by the Clinton campaign.

The DNC could NOT change the rules in the middle of the game so as to declare a new winner.

What's really sad is that feminists, who constantly complain about a gender double standard, are demanding that the DNC change the rules so as to "let Hillary win" or else they'll sabotage the general election. If the rules were changed in the middle of the primaries so that a woman candidate lost the lead to a man, the feminazis would scream bloody murder.

What Hillary's feminist supporters need to bear in mind is that if Obama loses the election, then Hillary will be made the scapegoat for "poisoning the well" and her political career will be over. The best metaphor I can think of for the behavior of Hillary and her feminist supporters is that of a "political suicide bomber" seeking to blow up their own ship because they can't be captain.; June 02, 2008 12:19 PM
vwis said...: Aunt Jean,

Let us all pray for Ted Kennedy as he has surgery today. The risks are high. He may or may not have supported your opponent. He has been labeled the most liberal senator, but you knew where he stood. Both dems and reps respect him, because he got things done. He lost his battle for presidency, he did not lose the war.

I view myself as a centrist and fiscally responsible. That is what I like about Yam (and his sense of humor). I see you as a woman who has been pushed around and learned to stand your ground. I respect that about you. Respect is something you earn. In the past, I have commended the Clintons for their contributions to the party. Where they seem to be heading now is not admirable. She needs to accept grace.
It is no good for the party to carry this on. She is not Bill and Bill is no longer the man he used to be.

Let us not be lead by others to be hurtful and mean. Let us receive the grace we are entitled to.; June 02, 2008 12:19 PM
JayW said...: Aunt Jean,

You are very angry today?

Are your cats ignoring you or something?

Or is it the realization that your precious HRC has no shot of winning the nomination. She can either accept defeat and save the very little bit of class she hasn't squandered away... or she can be petty and rant delusionaly, lose all credibility and be just like you.; June 02, 2008 12:23 PM
apissedant said...: the knight family,
Thanks for the update. Every state I have lived in except Michigan has had a primary since I could first vote, so I have no idea how a presidential caucus goes, or what attendance is like. In 2000, Michigan had a caucus, but my candidate, Bill Bradley had already dropped out of the race, so I did not attend.
In any event, the fact is the caucus is what counted, and all democrats, regardless of affiliation had every opportunity to attend. No Clinton supporter's right was more infringed than any Obama supporter.; June 02, 2008 12:26 PM
vwis said...: Aunt Jean,

Show me an honest politician and I will show you one that is unelectable.Unknown; June 02, 2008 12:27 PM
apissedant said...: vwis,
beautiful post. You show more restraint and maturity than the general population of this thread. I nominate you our Clinton ambassador.; June 02, 2008 12:28 PM
Aunt Jean said...: leahtexas[not]4obama you know good well the caucuses were a joke and in favor of obama.So pleaseeeee don't hand me that crap. Jean; June 02, 2008 12:34 PM
jpsedona said...: Aunt Jean,

You are "the" model of RESPECT and MANNERS. You've never allowed a "rude" comment to go unanswered. Nor have you let one "insult" be leveled at your candidate without a more divisive and angry response.

You've clearly identified that you harbor animosity towards "the other side" and have marginalized AA support for one candidate while reflecting that female support for Hillary is rational.

You've clearly made the case that you believe that Obama is liar.

There are some of us who would not support Hillary for the same reason. We belive that she is a liar. We believe that she is bad for the country. That she offers the same old-time politics.

I go beyond that. I believe she is a classic 'enabler' when it comes to Bill's long history of philandering. At her core, I believe that she has a history of denying the truth. I believe her history and vindictiveness echo the personality traits that brought down Nixon.

I believe that she felt 'entitled' to the nomination. That she is motivated to do anything to gain, hold and wield power. That she is willing to do and say anything.

So, if you are looking to blame someone for Hillary's failure to get the nomination, I suggest that it's entirely Hillary's fault. She also let Bill, who is mentally diminished since his heart bypass, alienate her from voting blocks she would need to win the nomination.

You may have a woman to vote for in 2008 GE, it just won't be her.; June 02, 2008 1:08 PM
vwis said...: If it weren't for bad news there would be no news at all.

Ted Kennedy is having surgery
Bo Diddy dies at 79
Inferno at Universal Studios
Dow plunges 200 pts
Oil nears 130 record high, Nat gas at $12-$13 (it start at under $3 about 6 yrs ago, record high after Katrina was $15)
All commodities up
Only 2 new SDs endorsements for Obama, last I checked. (We need about 1/hr to have a nominee tomorrow.)

Let's hope this deluge of bad news turns around.; June 02, 2008 1:12 PM
Dilbuck said...: I wonder if Hillary is conceding tomorrow night since she is returning to NYC? I guess we shall wait and see. Should be a pretty interesting 36-48 hours.; June 02, 2008 1:13 PM
Vicki in Seattle said...: what the Knight family just said - I live in WA state too. My caucus was also PACKED. literally, we didn't have enough room, and some precincts decided to meet outdoors because the room exceeded the fire code.

PACKED. I think we had literally 10 times more than was expected.

the primary was later, it was a "beauty contest", and didn't have nearly the turnout.; June 02, 2008 1:16 PM
Dilbuck said...: Obama picks up two MI supers.

DNC- Brenda Lawrence
DNC- Lu Battaglieri

He just covered his first hour vwis. :D; June 02, 2008 1:18 PM
vwis said...: Ant,

Would you wish that upon your worst enemy?

Ed,

Did you hear McCain's views this morning on Hasbullah and Israel? What's your point of view?; June 02, 2008 1:22 PM
ed iglehart said...: DNFTT!

xx
ed; June 02, 2008 1:27 PM
greywolf said...: Just a tid bit of information.

An interview with Donna Brazil on Huffington Post.

For those that think of Obama in terms that are not very nice; I would like to point out that Donna made a statement where she explained the following.

Obama had the votes needed to split Michigan at 50/50, however Obama would not allow that vote to go forward. He insisted that CLinton be given a fair chance to negotiate a number that was more to her benifit. When given such an opportunity, not one person from the Clinton camp, (not even Hillary herself) made any attempt to contact anyone with in the RBC or any uncommitted super delegate.
NOT ONE ATTEMPT. Thus shunning the olive branch offered by Obama to Hillary, the RBC made the decision to go with the recommendation made by the state leadership.

So what ever you may think of Obama, it was he, who gave in Florida, as well as Michigan and extended the opportunity to Hillary to negociate a number directly with the RBC. It was her failure to respond in any way that resulted in the numbers being handed out as they were.; June 02, 2008 1:27 PM
Dr. in Ann Arbor said...: Aunt Jean said...
DR in ann arbor if you are a doctor I'm the queen of England. You are about one sick Piece Of SH##. Jean

Well, then, queenie, you must be off your meds yet again. I AM a physician, and also a human being and an American. What I do for a living is immaterial here, except if you think that physicians are supposed to be 'above it all.' But I can't stand idly by while you trash everyone on this site just because they don't subscribe to your (incorrect) point of view, and refuse to talk reasonably to people. Maybe your parents AREN'T first cousins. But if not, then one of them SURELY is a Cape Buffalo.; June 02, 2008 1:31 PM
apissedant said...: vwis,
LOL! Very good point. Darn, who will take the job then?; June 02, 2008 1:33 PM
Emit R Detsaw said...: Per Sasha Johnson, CNN:

"If all the primary results including Florida and Michigan are counted, but not the caucus votes, Clinton leads in the popular vote 17,461,845 to Obama's 17,244,762, according to CNN estimates."

"In a second scenario, which adds CNN's estimate of the caucus-goers, Obama leads Clinton 17,928,000 to 17,843,000."

As has been said many time, the popular vote doesn't really count, Michigan had an invalid (and technically uncountable) election, and since they don't count heads at every Caucus (I find that odd), you can choose your own spin. There really is no way to "Count" every popular vote. Bottome line is the delegate count.

08ama!; June 02, 2008 1:33 PM
ed iglehart said...: Vwis,

No I didn't hear, but you may deduce my views here

I believe, as Gush Shalom says, "Peace is with enemies" Of course we should talk with and engage everyone.

I think I can guess McChip's position.

here, from a BBC blogsite:

David,

"They know he [McChip] isn't influenced strongly by religious figures "

But he sought out this one's endorsement!

On March 16, 2003, on the eve of the United States' invasion of Iraq, Pastor John Hagee took to the pulpit to warn of the coming Antichrist. In his sermon, "The Final Dictator," Hagee described the Antichrist as a seductive figure with "fierce features." He will be "a blasphemer and a homosexual," the pastor announced. Then, Hagee boomed, "There's a phrase in Scripture used solely to identify the Jewish people. It suggests that this man [the Antichrist] is at least going to be partially Jewish, as was Adolph Hitler, as was Karl Marx."

One more rash alliance he has lived ot regret, yet meantime, his good buddy Joe Lieberman is headlining an event sponsored by Hagee.

Wonders never cease!

Assalaam 'alaikum wa rahmatullaahi wa barakaatuhu
Peace, God's mercy and blessings be upon you (We'll all need it!); June 02, 2008 1:34 PM
Vicki in Seattle said...: Dr. in AA, I'm a physician, too. I think she goes on/off her meds periodically. JMHO. (and probably more time off meds, than on); June 02, 2008 1:36 PM
Keryl said...: My, my things have gotten ugly today.

Aunt Jean, your comment about JayW is really out of line. The fact that you can't see the racist leanings of your commentary is not good. I support you on this site but I think you've gone too far, and have then gone further by blaming the people who are calling you out on it.

Perhaps you'd like to identify the race of all other posters based on what they say on these boards? I urge you to step away and do some serious soul searching before you post again.

Although, mistaking the Obama photo for a picture of JayW was the first time I have actually laughed out loud at a post. That was a good one.; June 02, 2008 1:38 PM
greywolf said...: Just a few side notes also...

1. We need at least 30 to 35 SD to jump in now and seal this deal completely before Tuesday. That will remove any problems so that we as a party can begin to move forward.

2. All this in-house bickering, name calling, candidate slamming and such really needs to stop. The candidates have taken the high road in that they are no longer attacking each other as they both realize that it is time to come together. Yes there still remains some posturing and such, but that is normal after such a long hard fought battle for the nomination.
I would like to propose that in honor of those two great candidates, regardless of how we may feel about them individually, and stop all this nit picky bickering. It at this point and time is completely counter productive and discredits the candidates attempt to bring some so level of civility to the end of the race. Yes civility, although you may not see it, it is there.; June 02, 2008 1:38 PM
Dr. in Ann Arbor said...: Vicki said...
Dr. in AA, I'm a physician, too. I think she goes on/off her meds periodically. JMHO. (and probably more time off meds, than on)

Vicki - couldn't agree with you more. But it's possible that if she goes back on them her suicidal ideation risk will go back up and then...well, I wouldn't want to SAY it...; June 02, 2008 1:38 PM
Keryl said...: Bill Clinton opening a speech today:

"I want to say also that this may be the last day I'm ever involved in a campaign of this kind. I thought I was out of politics, 'til Hillary decided to run. But it has been, one of the greatest honors of my life to go around and campaign for her for president," said Clinton as he began his speech.

The fat lady is warming up.; June 02, 2008 1:45 PM
greywolf said...: Well I have had my say for now. Time to go out and search the web more. You folks have a nice day and be nice to each other, please.; June 02, 2008 1:46 PM
Emit R Detsaw said...: Sorry all Clinton fans, but just saw something funny I had to comment on. No offense meant.

Looking at the delegate status box in the upper left tab it looks like Clinton needs 5200.5 delegates. ;o)

I know it's only 200.5, but it gave me a smile. Maybe time to get my glasses checked again.; June 02, 2008 1:46 PM
Meg said...: Well, I just got home from work and have caught up on this morning's postings.

Aunt Jean??? What happened to you?? Remember a few days ago you were calm and rational? Remember how several bloggers here responded that they understood, though didn't agree? Remember how pleasant it was?

I really liked responding to your posts, which were not angry and abusive. Play nice.; June 02, 2008 1:48 PM
ctlivewire said...: I would like to here from Obama Supporters som real information.

First off I would like to know how giving the middle class a tax deduction of $1,000 is going to help if you double the capital gains tax which will effect retirement funds of those same middle class people?

I also would like to hear a real immediate energy solution! We have 1.9 million truck drivers struggling and losing their business's and farmers having trouble breaking even on diesel.

I have family serving in Iraq I am a little offended when what they are doing over there is diminished by a person who hasn't been there but once.

I know at least my brother and two cousins serving feel they are making a difference.

I have listened to televised Obama speeches. He is excellent at putting down all the current policies what is lacking is the exact platform he stands on.

Now chant with me folks

"Change"
"Hope"
"Change"
"Hope"

Well I tried but I fail to see exact substance in that frantic meditation.; June 02, 2008 1:50 PM
greywolf said...: by the way.. here is one thought for you all to ponder.

there are 229 supers remaining.
some have only a half vote.
so this is not yet over when you consider that Hillary has picked up two 2 full delegates to obama's 3 of which 2 were 1/2 votes. It has me worried because I am an obama supporter. This is not a done deal, it could end up as a tie or a near tie. So if your a praying kind of person, I would recommend you do so.; June 02, 2008 1:51 PM
vwis said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; June 02, 2008 1:53 PM
Oreo said...: New Open Thread here; June 02, 2008 2:03 PM

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