Tuesday, April 01, 2008

Open Thread

WE'VE MOVED! Democratic Convention Watch is now at http://www.DemocraticConventionWatch.com

Who's going to win, who has a better chance against McCain, or whatever else is on your mind.

We have decided to stop allowing anonymous comments. Not because we don't like reading what people have to say but because Blogger has introduced a new "feature" that makes you go to a second page when the number of comments go over 200.

It's very easy to set up a Google account so that you can continue commenting.

And please be excellent to one another. We do not accept name calling or any attacks on our commenters. Any objectionable comments will be deleted. Try to be civil.


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Leah Texas4Obama said...


Hippolytus said...

On Wednesday. the house will land on her, and we'll all be singing, "Din dong, the witch is dead!"

Leah Texas4Obama said...

We have less than 48 hours to go!

I betcha in 2012 it won't take as nearly as long as this time has to wrap it up ;)


Yamaka said...

"Bill Clinton NEVER complained about caucuses that he 'won' during his presidential races."

Hillary's supporters are little bit different from Bill's. She has more of women, working and older folks, who are NOT comfortable about caucuses, which take long long and long time; who has that kind of time, these days! Plus some folks need confidential voting booths. Not standing up and yapping about the Candidate!

"I think that Hillary just likes to complain and make up excuses about 'everything' that doesn't go her way."

Yes, she will complain about the RBC stealing her PDs and giving it to her Opponent!

She is the Most Electable Candidate because she has the Most of ALL votes cast and certified.


I didn't get a chance to read through the article you mention.

What say you?


At home my wife and daughter are near neutral politically, although they will be excited about breaking the Glass Ceiling this year!

My son WAS an ardent admirer of BHO. Now he says BHO is just another politician very thirsty of Federal Power! He is a disillusioned young man (19 years)!



I like your perspectives. Too bad you left the Democratic Party because of the incompetence of Pelosi and Reed.

I agree these two came to power to change the course of things in Washington DC. But What did they do in the last 1.5 years? Nothing!

The RBC of DNC makes me so mad, that I may even quit the Party in protest!

They are a bunch of very arrogant rotten politicians, who don't follow their own Rules on the Books! Like policemen, district attorneys and judges not following the Law!! Horrendous!

They very eagerly punished the Victims of MI and FL. They listened to the same Villains (the MI Democratic Party) who created this mess in the first place! Unbelievable!! They rewarded the Villains: Gov of MI and other SDs!!
But, next week end I will be in Austin to stand up for Hillary as a Delegate from our SD 13. I want to compete for a place in the Delegation to Denver.

If I win I will gladly go to Denver as a Hillary PD!


I will be infrequently visiting this site, till I get back to Houston.

This weekend at Austin, then to Stanford U to prepare my son who is going on a South Asian Tour to understand foreign cultures and diversity (sponsored and paid by Stanford U!).

So, don't yell at Hillary supporters who are a few at this Site, infested with BHO people.

Will I support BHO as a Nominee?

Maybe after he is the Nominee!!

Then, back to Houston, and my pool!

Leah Texas4Obama said...

I hope Senator Obama remembers to play some basketball Tuesday - for good luck ;)

I wonder if he forgot to play today ;)

apissedant said...

I agree, although I think everyone has the right to judge everyone. I don't really consider myself Christian, so that judge not be not judged thing has no authority over me. ;)
I also thought it was funny and I laughed. Dying is part of life, and you in no way insulted the dead man. The other one is a horse, and I don't belong to PETA.

Hippolytus said...

The popular vote issue is a red herring, but for those that want to debate it -- pay attention to RCP line six (or any other source you want to use that takes into account the votes of everyone in all states that casted a ballot. That's not a metric you'll see HRC using, because she knows she would lose it.

Motto of the Clinton campaign: "The Audacity of Desperation".

Oregon Dem said...

Nite all:

May you dream sweet dreams of Yamaka's last staement here"

"Fellow BHO supporters"

and hope for the day that all of those that are really democrats coming together and not debating such silliness as who amongst our candidates has the most populat votes but rather how we can makew certain our party's candidate can and more importantly WILL win in November.

apissedant said...

I have been to two caucuses, and I never had to vocally support a candidate. I did once, but I never had to, I chose to. At the end we filled out ballots that we did not show to anyone, we just turned them in to be counted. I do not know if this is how all caucuses go, so let's ask leah. She is from Texas, she should know.

Leah Texas4Obama said...


I am in shock!

I cannot remember a time in recent history that you have ever quoted me before!

Times they are a changin'


Hippolytus said...

Maxwell Smart to Hillary (with his arms outstretched):
"Missed it by that much!"

Leah Texas4Obama said...

Oregon Dem-

Sweet dreams to you and sweet dreams to those that may be heading to bed soon and to those that have already left.


Robert in MN said...

I caucused this year for the second time and for the first time in 20 years. I waited in a long line, endured a stuffed room and spend over 3 hours there. I vote in every election of any consequence. I can honestly say that this year is the most connected I ever felt to democracy. I was a part of the action and not just some number in a voting booth.

In Minnesota, my elected and representative government passed laws to make Minnesota a caucus state. That is how we chose our delegates, the number of which is in proportion to our population and the number of democrats in our state. Are you saying that since some think caucuses are undemocratic, we should only consider popular vote, or that popular vote is more important? Is Minnesota the 21st largest state dramatically less important then Wisconsin the 20th largest because Wisconsin had 1,100,00 primary votes and Minnesota only 210,00 caucus votes?

I hope you and others of like mind will rethink the argument on “popular vote” and stop diminishing my Super Tuesday participation, my election as a delegate to the district convention, my wife’s election and our votes for Obama delegates. That is how we do things in Minnesota, it is not better or worse, just different than a primary state. And worthy of its equivalent weight in the only way to equalize the two systems—delegates.

Hippolytus said...

Sounds like the Yammer is ready to come in from the Dark Side.
"May the force be with him!"
Obama Won Kenobi

Leah Texas4Obama said...

apissedant said :" Yam,
I have been to two caucuses, and I never had to vocally support a candidate. I did once, but I never had to, I chose to. At the end we filled out ballots that we did not show to anyone, we just turned them in to be counted. I do not know if this is how all caucuses go, so let's ask leah. She is from Texas, she should know."

Well here on the west side of Houston...

1) We put our names and info on a sign-in sheet and wrote down OBAMA or HILLARY

Then we had the option to leave or stay.

2) The folks running the caucus added up the Obama's and Hillary's

3) They told us how many people chose each candidate - then they figured out how many delegates per each delegate for our precinct.

4) Then we broke up into two groups - the Obama group and the Hillary group.

5) Then each group elected the correct number of delegates and alternates to represent our candidate.

6) Then we all went and sat down together again and voted to accept the results, a few local issues also were voted on, etc.

And that is about it in a nutshell.

Vicki said...

I caucused this year. If somehow the "popular vote" idea reigns, it will personally diminish the effort I put into it on a Saturday. My husband came to the same caucus. We say friends and neighbors in an environment of friendly exchange. Yes, it ran from 10am to 1pm (or something like that, it might have been more like 2), but overall, it was a positive. If my elderly neighbor had wanted to come, we would have given her a lift, but she happens to be a Canadian citizen and doesn't vote in US elections.

and it was PACKED. our precinct went outside (it was pleasant enough out, not raining anyway). PACKED. the precinct chair was overwhelmed - I think she was used to a nomination caucus being small enough that you could seat everyone in a booth at Denny's. This year, it was 50+.

If Hil wants to discount caucuses, I would say, from my state? NOT ON YOUR LIFE. I won't let that happen.

but all that is immaterial, since it's about delegates, not about popular vote.

Yamaka said...


I am in the SD13 of TX.

Our Caucus was a terrible mess. We were grouped FIRST, then openly fill out the Exhibit Sheets.

Nothing confidential there!

For me it was okay, as I am a political junkie! But there were many older folks who were very uncomfortable and many left w/o choosing their Candidate!

Our Caucus got over around 1 am!

How could we expect women, working and older Americans to go through it?

Our Senatorial District 13 Convention was another mess! No Rules were followed. The Convention Chair Mr. Net West did not know anything about the Procedures!

WE were there from 7:30 am till midnight!

Caucuses ARE very inconvenient form of voting.

Thank God, there is none in the GE!

Kujo said...

I am not sure what is the big hangup on Caucus. I know in one state you walk in and go to the left if you want to debate, OR go to the right and place your vote. You don't have to sit and stay. People make a big deal about it, I don't have a problem with it.

Kujo said...

Caucus is not a inconvient form of voting, the implementation might be. Same thing for those who stand in line for a few hours to place a vote at a regular primary because the staff was not prepared. Don't blame the process, blame the people administering it.

Leah Texas4Obama said...


I think the point is though that it is inconvenient in some cases for BOTH supporters of Obama and Clinton.

There are old people, mother with children, and working people that also support Obama not only Clinton.

The rules are no different for one candidate over the other.

It is fine to say that caucuses are more inconvenient than voting in a voting booth - but it is wrong to cry 'foul' and say that it is disadvantaging one candidate over the other.

Just my opinion - and of course Mother Theresa must be correct!
(Just joking! Don't get ya'll's noses bent out of shape ;)

apissedant said...

First off.... I just found the sexist on the post. I am sorry to inform you, but you are him. How can we expect women to show up for a caucus? Are they handicapped by their sexual organs? Will this adversely effect Hillary's ability to answer the phone at 3 am? If this is the case, then it would be understandable why we would not a female president. You should try to rephrase that in a nonsexist manner. Again, as already stated, the problem was with those that ran your caucus, not the caucus itself. I remember watching people wait out in the rain for 8 hours during the 2004 election.

vwis said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Hippolytus said...

Kudos to Yamaka for being enough of a stand up guy to come on the blog and take the heat. I'm impressed, Yam. Have fun on the rest of your trip, and best wishes to your son on his travels!

Leah Texas4Obama said...


I think you might have meant the PETER PAUL lawsuit - not Ron Paul ;)


Kujo said...

Did anyone see that lady crying on the news (I did not watch the rules committee, only a small snipit at the end of the day. If I was a true DCW blogger, I would of Tivo'd it.) saying it had nothing to do with the fact that she supported Clinton, just that she could not understand how we could not count people vote (cry cry cry).

If you say it did you think Aunt Jean? I can not get that ladies face out of my mind every time I read an Aunt Jean comment.

Kujo said...

A side note for those who continuoulsy have to re-type the word verification. I swear half the time I got it right and they got it wrong.


vwis said...


Yes, I meant Peter Paul. I should of proofed my post.

Leah Texas4Obama said...


I didn't see the lady that cried but did you see this video of the lady that got tossed out of the RBC meeting?



vwis said...


Let me try again.


My understanding about ancient Athens (and I honestly wasn't there and don't know for sure) was that they caucused so turnout and PV don't count.

Also, I am thinking about donating a orange pantsuit to Hillary so that she can keep up her chameleon charade for her appearance at the Peter Paul lawsuit in August.

Sorry, although, I see this primary as over I still have much venting to do toward the Clinton type of thinking. I have to deal with that type all the time where I live. I laugh only because I'm sick of crying.

Hippolytus said...

Leah Texas4Obama said...
"I didn't see the lady that cried but did you see this video of the lady that got tossed out of the RBC meeting?"
I thought to the funniest part of that pathetic performance was when the woman said "I'm not going to keep my mouth shut anymore." I have a hard time believing she has been keeping her mouth shut.

magia said...

apissedant, et al

I need you to look at this (caucus voting) not with regard to Obama/Clinton, but in the context of who gets to vote. We don't have much data, but this year was the biggest turnout in history, and we have two states that had both primaries and caucuses. The results:

attended caucus: 1,000,000
votes in primary: 2,874,986

attended caucus:244,458
votes in primary: 691,381

These numbers point to a virtual 3 to 1 ratio in turnout for primary versus caucus. You have to acknowledge that the primary process allows more voter involvement, which for me is just more democratic.

Leah Texas4Obama said...

"My mama taught me to play by the rules"


Donna Brazile ROCKS ;)


apissedant said...

I don't recall that much honestly. I remember that all Athenians met under a tree, or on a hill, and voiced what they believed. They voted and elected people to represent them in the government that they had established. That is what I recall of it. The point is that it was a meeting of those that felt like voting and discussing, and that people declared their support in one direction or the other.

All of you Texans, including Yam, have not said anything about the massive Hillary lockout that the news kept saying was happening all over Texas. Are you saying that didn't really happen?

Kujo said...


I heard people talking about her, know I know.

Also so the video on Harold Ickes video. Have to agree with him. We should not give the vote 69 59. Should be 0-0.

Hippolytus said...

magia, you don't think very much of the idea of federalism, do you? I prefer primaries, too, but say:
"Chacun chacun gout!" (each to one's own taste).

jcaesar91 said...

I am thinking that the Clintons felt they had a chance if they stole all the delegates in Michigan and got Florida at full strength...but absent that- they know it is over...it would seem that each side knows exactly how many of the undecided supers they have in their column...so at this point I think the Obama campaign can basically tell HRC- this ends on 6/4- or we start to embarrass you...and that means announcing defections from Clinton to Obama of Supers, Staff, and surrogates....It is likely that at least 100 of HRC's supers are extremely soft and can be pried away...

For HRC- I suspect the price she will extract from Obama is to get rid of proportionality and to ask him to resurrect her standing in the black community- because HRC cannot win even in 2012 (if Obama loses) or 2016- unless these two things are changed...

apissedant said...

To clarify, the first Republic worked successfully off of a caucus. People were not able to use secret ballots or anything like that. People still voiced their opposition and voted accordingly. I am not a conspiracy theorist, so I have no problem saying what I believe regardless of what others may believe. My car is coated in political bumper stickers, and every election my lawn is filled with various yard signs. I am proud of my choices and I enjoy voicing them. There have been no negative repercussions. This, considering every organization I have worked for has been republican, and the school I attend is largely republican. Why would I ever want to hide my beliefs in a society so focused on free speech?
I don't recall the constitution saying anything about free anonymous speech.

magia said...

robert in mn said . . "I hope you and others of like mind will rethink the argument on “popular vote”"

Ok, it's not only robert, so here's my challenge:

If I have made a popular vote argument (which I believe means that the popular vote should be the determining factor in this nomination process), please quote it for me.

If correcting what I perceive as math errors, or errors in logical thinking, constitutes making a popular vote argument, all I can say is:

and good night

Leah Texas4Obama said...

It depends on how you define 'more democratic'

It is the people of the states that decide if they want a primary or a caucus.

As in the case of Texas they decided to have a two-step process. The people have a choice if they wish to participate in the caucus after they vote in the primary. It is the person's choice to do so or not to do so. That the part of democracy. To vote or not to vote. Just because some people decided not to participate in the caucus (for reasons unknown) does not mean that the caucus was undemocratic.

People in America caucused long before people went and voted via an electronic voting machine.

Also, let us not forget that America is NOT a democracy. America is a 'representative democracy'. So in my opinion the choosing of delegates to represent the voice of the people in each precinct is more in line with how our government is structured as opposed to 'looking at the total of the popular vote in all 50 states'.

THIS IS A DELEGATE RACE not a popular vote 'beauty contest'.


apissedant said...

ok, goodnight all! If you happen to find out more about Athens voting, please let me know. I'm always interested in learning. Also, if you happen to find a way to defend the NH argument, or the Iowa NH first vote laws, please inform me of those too. Enjoy your night, and I'm sure I'll talk to all of you again soon.

I am still waiting for a response on the sexist remark that women cannot be expected to caucus.

Hippolytus said...

I suspect that you are right in the first paragraph of your post.
As to the second paragraph:
(1) I guess Obama and Hillary can campaign together before predominately black audiences and profess solidarity, but I have to believe that the AA community is going to be wary of her for a long time to come. It's going to be hard to get the poison out of that well.
(2) I'm not sure what you mean by getting rid of proportionality -- could you please elaborate?

Kujo said...

Donna Brazile,

I've watch Donna on CNN before and never gave her the credit she deserves. She always spoke as if she did not make up her mind but really had a hidden agenda.

I have a whole new respect.

I would love to hear her in a debate with Ickles or even Clinton.

Hats off to Donna.

magia said...


I think I made the point I wanted to make, but I also have studied French, so FYI:
chacun à son goût

Bonne nuit!

Leah Texas4Obama said...


There was NO Hillary lock-out in my precinct. In fact they left the doors open past the time the sign-in was supposed to come to a close and they let people sign-in if they were late.

Hillary won my precinct:

Obama 8 delegates
Clinton 12 delegates

if I remember correctly.

The door was never locked and many people wandered in and out for a cigarette during the two hour process.

In my opinion Hillary did just did not like the idea that the second part of the Texas two-step was a caucus that counted for 1/3 of the state delegates that would attend the Texas Convention - so she made a fuss and whined a little bit and filed a couple complaints in order to get things to go better in her direction and it doesn't seem that it worked.


Leah Texas4Obama said...

magia -

Buonanotte a te - sogni di oro!

Domani e` un altro giorno ;)

p.s. Sorry I don't know French - only Italian :)

Hippolytus said...

you did make your point, but I think that you might have missed mine, which is to tout the virtues of a political system that permits each state to come up with its own rules. I don't think that we need to demand that all states adopt primaries with uniform rules.

Kujo said...


I agree we should have a popular vote contest instead of this messed up SD's and all of the rest of this mess. So next time lets have it.

But until then, we have to go with what the rules started out to be.

If I am playing a game I first understand the rules. In this case the rules was delegates. So why not lose a big state by 55-45 and only lose 4 delegates and go after one of these small states and win 80-20 and get 20 delegates. I spend my money wisely and play the way the game is ment to play. If it was a popular vote contest then strategy would be different and results would be different. Can not look at the results of this race and try to determine what the popular vote result would of been.

But lets face some facts. If Obama would win all categories of Popular vote (I am not ignorant enough to understand all the calculations of it), then you would be here arguing Electoral College. And if that did not work, you would be arguing Women Only. And if that did not work, Left handed red heads with back spasms.

stopOBAMAnow said...

"These numbers point to a virtual 3 to 1 ratio in turnout for primary versus caucus. You have to acknowledge that the primary process allows more voter involvement, which for me is just more democratic."


I fully agree with you.

It is understandable because mostly Caucuses consume more time and energy. Busy people cannot afford to spend enormous time at the Caucuses!

Women with children, working and older Americans will shun spending lot of times with voting!

More of these people support Hillary. Therefore, she is handicapped by Caucuses.

I understand it well.

Most prefer Primaries.

I Prefer Primary. I hate spending too much time at the polling place. That's my view of the world!

The data support it.

Hi Yam:

Nice seeing you!

Well, as an Independent Moderate I agree with many of what you say in your posts!

As I said before, we are in the same page: You are Left Leaning Centrist and a fiscal conservative. I can relate to your experience and life philosophies!

Keep writing often.

I hate the RBC of DNC: they are all bunch of Cops breaking the Rule in reckless abandon!

How could they make Rules when they break so very often?

I hope SDs understand that they cannot Nominate someone who cannot win big when he has so much money - he spends 3 times more in OH, PA, KY, WV and PR than Hillary.

She won all these States with big margins.

How come no BHO supporter said anything good about the whopping margin Hillary had today at PR?

Very angry?

Leah Texas4Obama said...

Oops - my paragraph up above should have read:

In my opinion Hillary just did not like the idea that the second part of the Texas two-step was a caucus that counted for 1/3 of the state delegates that would attend the Texas Convention (BECAUSE SHE HAD NOT PREPARED IN ADVANCE FOR A CAUCUS, AND SHE STATED THAT SHE DID NOT KNOW THAT TEXAS WAS A TWO-STEP PROCESS) - so she made a fuss and whined a little bit and filed a couple complaints in order to get things to go better in her direction and it doesn't seem that it worked.

Leah Texas4Obama said...


I also do not want to see each state be forced into uniform rules.

But I would like to see the majority of the states eventually adopt the process like Oregon has.

Have all mail in ballots.
This way there would always be a paper back-up for recounts.

It would make the voting process easier for the people and more people might vote.


Leah Texas4Obama said...

Okay here is a fact.

On June 1st Hillary won Puerto Rico.

Here in Houston we heard CNN call the primary for Hillary and that she won by a big margin BEFORE 3pm Central time.

There has not been even 'one' superdelegate endorsement for Hillary in the past NINE hours since her win.

So where are those 200 superdelegates that Yam says are going to be jumping on the Clinton band wagon ?


apissedant said...

I think kujo sums it up quite succinctly. The fact is a win is a win is a win. This has nothing to do with primaries, caucuses, electoral votes, popular votes, or anything else. The whole point is just the need to win. Hillary wants to win, and would find any way to explain away her loss and turn it into a win.

apissedant said...

night for reals.

Hippolytus said...

I agree that Oregon's mail in ballot procedure is an interesting option that other states should try. I'd also like to see some states offer voting over both weekend days, so that voting would not have to interfere with a Sabbath or (for most people) work obligations. I'm for anything that would maximize voter participation and convenience.

stopOBAMAnow said...

"On Wednesday. the house will land on her, and we'll all be singing, "Din dong, the witch is dead!"


I am NOT sure that any such thing will happen on Wed.

Even if it happens some time in June, w/o Hillary's real sincere support do you think Obama can get 271 Evs? I doubt it.

How may EVs 18 million votes will get you? Not more than 50 Evs!!

First Obama has to get the support of most of Hillary's, then should get the nod of another 25 million atleast to aim for some respectable performance in the GE!

It's going to be very very very hard for Obama w/o Bill and Hillary Clinton, the Most Popular Candidate/Couple in America.

Yes, you may win the battle, but.. you will lose the war big time, Hippo! Please remember.

Leah Texas4Obama said...

In this article Gary Hart says that he is supporting Obama:


I don't know if he said so before or not. And I believe he is NOT a superdelegate.

But the article is interesting.

Kujo said...


One problem your having is that you think all the emotions that are out there will be out there 5 months from now.

Second, you think that all of Clintons Supporters have as much anger built up as you do.

Once the real race begins, the realization of difference of these 2 candidates will show. People will all of a sudden realize what it means to vote for McCaine... and most of the wont.

Hippolytus said...

OK, stopObamanow/Yam:
I'll retract my Wizard of Oz scenario; schadenfreude as getting the best of me when I posted that. I'll fess up to that much (although I suspect that you'd be tempted to act the same way if the shoe were on the other foot). In any event, Hillary's supporters will come over to Obama once they get a good, stiff whiff of McCain, not because they're in love with Obama, but because they have no better option. I believe that most of them will be smart enough to see that Obama will be their best option, with the exception of a few outliers like our Aunt Jean. Who knows, maybe even she will come around in the coming months.

stopOBAMAnow said...

"I don't think that we need to demand that all states adopt primaries with uniform rules."


If it is okay for the GE, then not for the Primary?

In fact we should just follow what the GE format is, and the EV Methodology, like the Repubs.

Here is the Irony of All Time:

We say we want "Proportional Representation" in one breath, and in the next minute we turned around and allow the RBC steal 4 PDs from one of the Candidates and give it to a Candidate who did NOT want it during the Primary, as in MI!

Where is the simple logic? Where is the Fair Reflection?
All manipulated bogus baloney!

Just simplify the process: Primary and EV Methodology, period.


Rules are Rules are Rules! Yes, there are hundreds of useless Rules all around us! Yes, TD count matters.

Only when Rules help to measure the ACTUAL REALITY ON THE GROUND as to the Real Strength of the Candidate.

When one Candidate leads in Popular Vote and another leads in TD, pause and ask the question, why so?

Why both don't go hand in hand?

Why do they diverge? Which is more reliable measurement of the strength of the Candidates?

These are reasonable questions the remaining 200 SDs must ask, and honestly answer the questions.

Otherwise, a virtual victory will take us to a disastrous reality in the Fall.

This time is historically different. Let the Rules reveal the Truth - not the fantasy!!

Hippolytus said...

Well said. You said it better and more succinctly than I did.

vwis said...


Although, I believe you've checked out. My statement regarding caucuses not counting was sarcasism. I was merely mirroring Clinton's point of view. I definitely believe in free speech.

Bull Schmitt said...

So now we have Yamalamadingdong (faux Democrat) and slopYOMAMAnow ("independent moderate"). Who do I have to pay to spawn a third, "Archie Bunker conservative" persona, and get the 'three' of them to debate concern trolling points for Sen. Obama?

Yammer, you're funnier than Terry McAuliffe trying to make a case to the Superdelegates, or John McCain trying to explain his economic policy - keep up the good work!


stopOBAMAnow said...


Assume for a second that Obama is the Nominee.

McCain makes a very shrewd move of taking an experienced woman as VP who is NOT pro-life.

Boom... a lot of Hillary's supporters will say Hmmmmmm... "I have a choice now.

I can lean Right for this GE!"

Experience Matters for the TOP Job. Training on the Job is very expensive and dangerous.

W Bush = Inexperience = 9/11 = Disaster.
Obama = Inexperience = Disaster!

Stop Obama Now. He is ObaBush!

vwis said...


I was reading the Huffington about Donna Brazile. They should be thanking their lucky stars to have gone up against such a worthy opponent. I almost hope they take it to the Credential Committee and end up with 50/50. Their kind of politics should upset the public and the DNC. They have a way forward not backwards and have decided to take it.

Hippolytus said...

You're missing the point when you suggest that Obama "stole" 4 delegates that Clinton had. She never had them, because Michigan did not hold a legally valid primary. Personally, I would have been just as happy if the RBC had stuck to their guns and enforced a 100% penalty against FL and MI, but I recognize that it was not politically palatable to do so. By adopting the Michigan compromise, the RBC did not validate the popular votes cast in a flawed election. They acquiesced in a political settlement made at the behest and suggestion of the Michigan Democratic Party itself. If I could waive a magic wand, I would have given Clinton her 73 delegates in MI just to shut her (and Ickes) up, but that's water under the bridge, and the resulting 2 vote difference will be of no practical consequence in view of the size of Obama's certain victory. Instead of herumphing, Ickes should have kept his mouth shut and been grateful that Obama didn't shove a 50/50 split down his throat (which I'm guessing he could have done had he wanted to embarrass her).
As for the rest of my post, I've made the case for state by state experimentation before, and will not belabor it. Sufficed to say that good arguments can be made on either side of the pluralism/uniformity argument.

Hippolytus said...

stopObamanow said: [suppose]
"McCain makes a very shrewd move of taking an experienced woman as VP who is NOT pro-life.
Boom... a lot of Hillary's supporters will say Hmmmmmm... "I have a choice now."
If you think Hillary supporters are dumb enough to fall for that gambit, then you have less respect for them than I do.

vwis said...


You should read the Donna Brazile article I just posted.


She could also retire in AR. They love her. Personally, her best chance at presidency is if she moved to PR and lead them to vote to become independent. She then could have them vote for her as their president. Next she could become a dictator and strip them of their voting rights by only allowing herself to run against uncommitted. Fidel is a pussy cat compared to her.

Hippolytus said...

I'd love to stay, but I've got to go now. If anyone wants to comment on my recent posts, I'll check the thread and respond tomorrow. Good night, everyone.
"Good night moon,
Good night stars,
Good night Bill,
with his cigars..."

vwis said...

To whomever is out there,

I love the move that Obama is going to be in MN on Tuesday night. With the support of few SDs that will really jab at McCain and the GOP.

vwis said...

Good night,
Good night supers. I pray you all come to your wits and put an end to it. Unless Hillary has a change of heart over night. That is if she has one. I'm sure Bill ate it a long time ago.

tmess2 said...

I think I will point out before going to bed that not all states have the same rules for electoral college. Two states award electoral votes by congressional district. A significant minority require the electors to vote for the popular vote winners, but other state leave them free to vote for the candidae of their choice (which if their party has chosen well is the popular vote winner).

More fatal to the argument, however, is that there is no constitutional requirement that the states use the same rule. Under the Constitution, if my state wanted to choose its electors by random lottery, it could. The similarity of the states for the general election is the result of history and tradition not a legal requirement. That same history and tradition has produced a divergence of approaches to the selection of delegates. Both are equally legally valid.

Amot said...


I have never been rude toward your candidate. Many times I have used numbers instead of talking emotions. I am constantly trying to be more gentle person than I really am, cause in real life I crush people I dislike. Instead I made my best to find the tiny bits of positivism Hillary has and emphasize them in order to achieve unity. I will continue my policy till the end of the week. But if your candidate wants to secure third Bush term, I will start speaking my mind uncensored next week.

BTW, Hillary won PR that big due to the republicans. There was a question asked at exit polls: "Your opinion on G.W.Bush?" 38% answered favorable and 81% of them voted Clinton. Those are 30% of the total votes. And she won the vast majority of war fans too.

I am glad she pretends she won the popular vote. Maybe she has to mention she won 500K Republican votes too since March, voters that also stated they hate her. Those are numbers, pure facts and no insinuations. I wish everyone was using facts...

softspoken22 said...

Mornin' y'all-

Y-Let make sure I'm on top of this...I'm a day-dreaming, lunatical infestation...just checking...and I see now more people should be expected to go to the next causus since they managed to get to that hearing and now realize how much is at stake.

Bill Schmitt-Are you a meathead?:)

softspoken22 said...

For what it's worth-


ed iglehart said...


I agree with you in support of Leah's sense of humour, which I share. ;-)

Remember, when speaking of Athenian democracy, it was only male non-slaves who met under that tree. The Socratic dialogue of Phaedrus is well worth a read, btw. Referenced here, I think.

Love and peace to all.

Independent voter said...

John McCain right now in front of AIPAC still claims that naming the Iranian Republican Guard a terrorist organization was a good move (which Clinton also agreed).

I would say this is a good idea IF AND ONLY IF Bush was NOT president. By naming them a terrorist organization at the time that they did granted Bush the permission to attack Iran. Again, this is the ONLY reason I would have gone against the move. Anybody but Bush AND McCain would handle the situation rationally, but because these two individuals are just as delusional as they are trigger happy, I, like Obama, would not support the move.

golfman8042 said...

My thought all along has been that Obama would receive enough SD endorsements today and tomorrow (perhaps 30) that he would easily clinch the magic number based on the final primary numbers tomorrow pm.

Here is another scenario, however.

Obama has a rally planned Tuesday night in Minneapolis in the Xcel Energy Convention Center --significant because it is the site of the RNC gathering in September. Obviously he is planning to secure the nomination and declare an official beginning to the GE season.

What if only a few SDs endorse today and tomorrow, and Obama gains about 17 PDs from the primaries, leaving him short... But during his speech he marches out onto the stage with him a host of SDs (including some who had previously endorsed Clinton) led by Jimmy Carter. That would be a pretty dramatic end to the primary.

JayW said...

Some of HRC's best:

"My husband did not wrap up the nomination in 1992 until he won the California primary somewhere in the middle of June, right? We all remember Bobby Kennedy was assassinated in June in California. You know, I just, I don't understand it." --on why she is staying in the race

"I'm not going to put my lot in with economists." --after being asked by George Stephanopoulos about economists' claims that her gas tax holiday proposal would not bring down gas prices

"I remember landing under sniper fire. There was supposed to be some kind of a greeting ceremony at the airport, but instead we just ran with our heads down to get into the vehicles to get to our base." --on visiting Bosnia in 1996, contradicting other accounts that said there was no threat of gunfire. Clinton later said she "misspoke"

"On a couple of occasions in the last weeks, I just said some things that I knew not to be the case." --on misspeaking about her Bosnia visit

"Senator Obama says he is getting tired of the campaign, his supporters say they want it to end. Could you imagine if Rocky Balboa had gotten half way up those art museum stairs and said, 'Well, I guess that's about far enough.' When it comes to finishing the fight, Rocky and I have a lot in common. I never quit, I never give up and I know that were going to make it together, not just up those stairs, but were going to climb that mountain for a better day for America."

"The question is, we face a lot of dangers in the world and, in the gentleman's words, we face a lot of evil men. And what in my background equips me to deal with evil and bad men?" --laughing off a question from a voter who asked Clinton what qualified her to deal with leaders from countries such as Iran and North Korea

"I just want to add, I did not say that it should be done, but I certainly recognize why Gov. Spitzer is trying to do it. And we have failed." --responding in a Democratic debate to New York Gov. Elliot Spitzer's plan to give drivers' licenses to illegal immigrants. Moments earlier, Clinton had said, "They are driving on our roads. The possibility of them having an accident that harms themselves or others is just a matter of the odds."

"Aww don't feel noways tired. I've come too faarrr from where I started frum." --adopting a Southern drawl while speaking at a church (Watch video clip)

"We are going to take things away from you on behalf of the common good."

"God bless the America we are trying to create."

"I have to confess that it's crossed my mind that you could not be a Republican and a Christian."

"We have a lot of kids who don't know what works means. They think work is a four-letter word."

"I have said that I'm not running and I'm having a great time being pres -- being a first-term senator." --on her presidential ambitions

"I'm not going to have some reporters pawing through our papers. We are the president."

"He ran a gas station down in St. Louis... No, Mahatma Gandhi was a great leader of the 20th century." --introducing a quote by Mahatma Gandhi

"Who is going to find out? These women are trash. Nobody's going to believe them." --on Bill Clinton's bimbo eruptions

"If I didn't kick his ass every day, he wouldn't be worth anything." --on Bill Clinton

"I suppose I could have stayed home and baked cookies and had teas, but what I decided to do was to fulfill my profession which I entered before my husband was in public life."

Bob in Vancouver said...

You know, this is better than the "The Tortoise and the Hare" fable. I wonder if we will be telling our kids the bedtime story of "The Clinton and the Obama Race" and how the Clinton candidate had everything to start with but laid back on her laurels before Super Tuesday, yet the Obama candidate eventually won with superb organization and dedicated persistence?

apissedant said...

Apparently my sense of irony peters out at night. I see it now, thanks for the clarification.

Leah is both entertaining and insightful, and I would hate for someone to sour her contributions to this thread. I am glad we can agree on this.
As for Athens... true enough. It is great that we have become more tolerant and included as many people as possible in the democratic process over time.

apissedant said...

I am thinking a scenario like that may play out. I think the Pelosi club would be great for the over the top push. I think that whether it is done by PDs tomorrow, or by SDs tomorrow night, it will be a rather large group of delegates all at once.

Mug said...

Feminazis are gearing up to betray the country by their bitter vendetta.




Aunt Jean said...

Hipp shut the hell up your post of 11:56 was uncalled for.

Independent voter said...

Jayw, you forgot........"God bless rich people like you and me Bill" - Bill O'Really interview on April 30th.

Aunt Jean said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Vicki said...

Aunt Jean, that rant of yours last night - I saw it before it was erased - THAT was uncalled for.

Bull Schmitt said...

softspoken22 @ 7:35am -

"Bull Schmitt-Are you a meathead? :)"

Nicely played, but Rob Reiner is supporting someone else ;)

- - - - - - - - - - - - - -

bob in vancouver -

Indeed, never has a campaign overcome such overwhelming advantages to finish second.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - -

And to all you Chicken Littles out there -

Of course there will be a number of loud, attention-seeking people (in this case women) looking for their "15 minutes". The proof in the pudding will be Obama-McCain polls about a month from now, as the 90+% of Clinton-supporting Democrats go through the stages of grief. This has happened in every primary election since the dawn of time.

Remember that the 100,000+ vitriolic posts from "hillaryis44" come from 300-400 individual people. Lots of attention, few actual voters attached to the effort.

JayW said...

Aunt Jean,

You really sound like a bitter old lady. Chill out.

Obama is going to win the general election and there is nothing that the reublicans or you, with your rantings, can do about it.

Look at the polls. Obama vs. McCain. Obama wins.

HRC can go live out the rest of her days in the pasture... she is done politically. Especially if she doesnt shut her hole soon and accept defeat. Every day she looks less classy than the day before.

Aunt Jean said...

MUG that's right baby remember the quote: Hell Has No Fury Like A Woman Scorned but in this case it's obama stealing the race with the media's help. LOL LOL LOL LOL Jean

Aunt Jean said...

Jawy it figures that you are a AA because of the BS that comes out of that trasty mouth. Jean

stopOBAMAnow said...

"They acquiesced in a political settlement made at the behest and suggestion of the Michigan Democratic Party itself."


Here is the irony as I see it:

The Original Villain in the whole ordeal was MI Democratic Party, who in the name of Reform, jumped the line! Now they bring a proposal and the Czarist Arrogant RBC embraces them with smile and warmth!

On the legality of the election itself: Both MI and FL State Govt certified the Primary to be legal.

The issue has been with the DNC to seat their delegates or not.

Not the legality of the Primary itself.

Here is how the RBC violated its own Rule:

1. As per the Rule already on the Books, any State jumping the Date Line will be penalized 1/2 PD. Why did they totally strip the total delegates from MI and FL? This is the illegality of their own action in violating their own Rules already on the Books. It's sheer arrogance and the sense of Czarist raw power to parley!

2. The Saturday Meeting should have been convened on the 1 Feb to resolve the Conflict which THEY created it in the first place by stripping the whole delegation from MI and FL. Sloppily they waited 4 months to come to grips with their own illegality!

3. Where is the Fairness to give a Candidate who refused to be on the ballot the whole "Uncommitted" votes which belong to 3 other people PLUS 4 more PDs stolen from another Candidate who won the State?

Absolute lunacy and incompetence in simple clean thinking.

In short, the Villains of the RBC and shenanigans of MI Democratic Party made the horrendous mockery of the Fair Reflection Doctrine of the Charter of the Democratic Party!

Beneficiary of this ill-gotten bounty is Obama, the most divisive politician in recent memory!

The start of the Beginning of the End of the Party belongs to the RBC!

Hello Donna Brazile lovers:

She said, "I will quit the RBC or Party if the SDs call this Primary"
in Jan 2008.

Why is she around the RBC/Party now? Let her quit.

The big dirty mouth! She is the First Rule Breaker! Her Moma taught her how to break the Rules!

Rules are the Rules, Don't break it 9 months ago! A 1/2 PD sanction as per the Rule should have been upheld from Day One, as the Repubs did!! Very sloppy RBC and the DNC!!


WBush = Inexperience = Disaster.
Obama = Inexperience = Disaster.

Stop Obama Now. He is ObaBush.

Aunt Jean said...

Vicki I totally disagree with you. What he said [which you failed to mention] was totally uncalled for. I always wondered why he talked so bad about Hillary now I know it's because he's AA and has no respect for any race besides his. Jean

Vicki said...

what he did or said is immaterial.

you can only control what you say or do. I can only control what I say or do.

and what you said, IMHO, was totally uncalled for. your continuing rants are irrational. IMHO.

have a nice day.

JayW said...

Aunt Jean,

You made me smile again!!! I love how you get so fired up... must make your face all red... dentures clinched together... veins in your head popping out. I love it.

Your post today at 11:12 not only proves that you are a racist... but it also proves that you really have no idea what you are talking about.

Not that it is any of your business... but I am English/German, not African American.

You, however, are just plain white trash. Just like the candidate you support.

apissedant said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
dsimon said...

stopobamanow: As per the Rule already on the Books, any State jumping the Date Line will be penalized 1/2 PD. Why did they totally strip the total delegates from MI and FL?

Check the rulebook. It says states in violation will be penalized at least half their delegates. That means the penalty can be more than 50%. Hence the DNC did not violate its own rules.

I don't believe the DNC had any obligation to resolve MI and FL on Feb. 1. And if they had done so, they would have been accused of taking away from those states the chance to correct their violations while there was still time for them to do so.

The Michigan vote cannot be seen as fairly representative of the will of the Michigan voting electorate, so the committee did the best they could under the circumstances.

Vicki said...

besides, isn't HRC a great friend of the AA population? Bill, too?

what would HRC think of these racist rants?

vwis said...


Yes. This is what we will tell our children.

Bill and Hill went up to The Hill!
to fetch their pails of water,
Bill fell down and broke his crown,
and Hill came tumble after.

And the children sang to the tune of Kumbahyah;
Obama, my Lord where is ya,
Obama, Obama, Obama.

That is my recap.

JayW said...

Aunt Jean....

Two more comments:

1) Could you please learn to spell? What is a trasty mouth? (See 11:12 AM post)

2) Could you please take your picture off your profile? Everytime I see it I throw up a little in my mouth.


apissedant said...

Aunt Jean,
Your comments are offensive and disturbing. I see no reason for your continued racist insults. I am also curious if you have actually read your posts. You sound like a 10 year old girl. Your command of the English language is at best, laughable.

Aunt Jean said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Aunt Jean said...

Jayw if you think I'm white trash what does that make you SHIT on the bottom of my shoes.Plus I think your mama has been playing in the wood pile. LOL LOL LOL LOL that I rub off on the grass you racist white bigot. Jean

billyjay66 said...

aunt jean read what you said

"Jawy it figures that you are a AA because of the BS that comes out of that trasty mouth. Jean"

Name calling gets us nowhere and you notice I never have. But at least recognize you have a problem giving an AA in equal shot.

apissedant said...

Please think about what you're saying. George W. Bush had even more experience than Hillary had. Obama has more experience than both of them.
Bush is the grandson of a Congressman, the son of a Congressman, the son of a VP that served 8 years, and the son of a President that served for years. This is a grand total of 25 years of osmosis experience. He then himself spent 6 years as governor. This is 6 years of actual experience.
HRC was the wife of a governor for 8 years, and the wife of the president for 8 years. This is 16 years of osmosis experience.
She was then a senator for 6 years. This is 6 years of actual experience.

Obama on the other hand, has over 10 years of ACTUAL experience. He has 0 osmosis experience.

dsimon said...

Aunt Jean: Now to settle this last night the only way Obama can win the pop. vote is if you give him all of the uncommitted votes in Michigan. Since he didn't even get a vote in michigan that does away with that even if you give him half of the uncommitted he still doesn't win pop. vote Hillary does do there.

Clinton has never explained why the popular vote should matter when the process is a delegate contest. But even assuming that the "popular vote" expresses the "will of the people" even if the candidates aren't fighting over that number, Clinton's calculation in Michigan undermines her own argument. She counts over 300,000 votes for her and zero for everyone else. That result can't possibly represent the "will of the people" in Michigan.

The fact that she sees the vote in Michigan as legitimate at all also undermines her claim. I don't know how anyone can look at the situation around that vote and say it was fairly contested. And when election procedures are so severely flawed, we do more damage to democracy by accepting the results than by rejecting them.

I might could see obama getting half of the uncommitted....If that isn't stealing I don't know what is.

I think for Clinton to claim delegates from a clearly invalid vote could also be deemed stealing. If the vote should not be recognized to begin with, then there's nothing to steal. In addition, we don't know how many people stayed home because their candidates' names weren't on the ballot (voting "uncommitted" is not the same as voting for a specific candidate). Had supporters of other candidates had more of an incentive to turn out, Clinton would have gotten a smaller percentage of the vote than she actually did. Consequently, the compromise that was approved can be seen as generous to her.

Obama desn't have a chance in hell to win

That's not what the polls say. They say he certainly has a good chance. It's certainly not no chance. He may or may not win, but I think it's a bit of an overstatement to say he can't win, especially in the face of the available data.

Aunt Jean said...

apissedant instead of looking at mind look at some of the obama supporters. Leave me alone if all you are going to do is insult.I'm not being racist just telling it like it is like it's been for to long. Jean

apissedant said...

aunt jean,
ummm... let me recap. You have viewed his posts as juvenile and stupid. Since his posts are juvenile and stupid, you have decided he is a black man, because apparently only black men are juvenile and stupid.
Please explain how this is not racist.

Aunt Jean said...

apissedant if obama has more experience then I have ocean front property to sale you in tenn. What a joke LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL> Just a minute I've laughed so hard that I'm going to puke!!! Jean

Aunt Jean said...

apissedant because he looks AA in his pic. and because he is always making racist remarks about Hillary .

apissedant said...

Also, my only insult is that your command of the English language is at the level of a 10 year old. I am sure if you actually send in your post to an English teacher, they will inform you of this. You could not possibly pass a college exit exam, or even a 6th grade SOL with the poor language skills you are exhibiting. This is less of an insult, and more of a fact. It is not personal, just an evaluative analysis.

apissedant said...

Aunt Jean,
That is a picture of Barack Obama. Try to catch up. He is the 12 foot white guy in the background wearing a cape.

Aunt Jean said...

billyjay66 I keep telling you obama supporters that it is NOT BECAUSE HE IS AA I DON"T TRUST HIM BECAUSE HE IS LIEING TO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE> Yes I have meet plenty of AA's that were racist against whites so don't try and tell me that it doesn't exist!! The reason I said that to jayw is because of the remarks he made about Hillary and he looks black in his pic. So I thought that he had a problem with whites. But come to find out he's not AA just a bigot.Jean

Aunt Jean said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
billyjay66 said...

aunt jean

When you are in a hole..... stop digging!!!

It would take some time to go find your quote but re: The ....and Bobby Kennedy was assassinated weekend. You said dong it to him (Obama) would not be worth the trouble. Give it a rest this is so offensive.

apissedant said...

I am tired of all these anti-white white people. It is ridiculous. Why must you persist in continually knocking down and insulting white people. Do you know how hard it was to keep all those unruly black slaves in line? They were essentially animals, and it took us years to train them to be at least somewhat productive. We did them a favor; we fed them, put a roof over their head, and taught them how to be domesticated.
Now all you silly bleeding heart white people feel guilty and have freed them from their chains. See what you have done? Now they are unemployed criminals destroying our society. We spent centuries domesticating them, and in just a century and a half, you have erased all the good we have done. You silly white people just need to analyze the data and you'll see how wrong your silly human rights actions have been.

Aunt Jean said...

apissedant now you are being silly.Have I ever [and if you say yes prove it]said that aa's should be treated differently NO!!!!! I've said that we are all Americans and should be treated equally.But that is the key word [EQUALLY} Jean

Dr. in Ann Arbor said...


The Knight Family said...

Long time reader, first time poster.
This following comment was made and so far I have not noticed anybody else commenting on how absurd it was.

magia said:
attended caucus:244,458
votes in primary: 691,381

Maybe there are no other Washingtonians on this site but I can tell you that those assumed caucus numbers are so phony it is laughable.

WA held its caucus either one or two weeks before the primary. (honestly, I forget) EVERYWHERE, the news, the paper, the radio, all called our primary a "beauty contest." ALL said, if you want your vote for president to count: CAUCUS.

I am the mother of two children and I brought them to a PACKED caucus. I live in the University District of Seattle and there were TONS of students. I repeat, TONS. However, I did not go to the primary. All my neighbors, who I saw at our caucus, did not vote in the primary either. And I am sure that most of those students did not either. That estimated number of voters in Washington's caucus listed by magia is more likely just the voters in Seattle!

That is all I have to say really. There were a bizillion people at the WA caucus. And not a lot at our primary.

And I like caucusing. I did it is 2004 and now in 2008. And I bring my kids.

Dilbuck said...

Aunt Jean,

Do yourself a huge favor and walk away from the keyboard. First, you generalized the AA community by saying that the outnumber the amount of white people on welfare. Now you call jayw immature and juvenile because you thought he was an AA male. I see now why you will not vote for Obama in the GE and it has absolutely nothing to do with his character or policies, but by the color of his skin.

Aunt Jean said...

Now to settle this, last night the only way Obama can win the pop. vote is if you give him all of the uncommitted votes in Michigan. Since he didn't even get a vote in michigan that doesn't apply even if you give him half of the uncommitted votes he still doesn't win pop. vote Hillary does so there! Also one more thing I hope that either Hillary goes to the convention and raises hell about her getting screwed in Michigan. I might could see obama getting half of the uncommitted. Which the DNC didn't even get that right. I guess they are to stupid it is 40% not 44% the idiots. Then they should just let the rest of the delegates go where they want to. No what happened they gave all of it to obama and then they gave him the right to make sure that all the delegates endorses him. But of course most of the DNC that voted on this was his endorsements. I wonder how that happened. If that isn't stealing I don't know what is. Well I hope you enjoy 4 more years of republicans in office because that is exactly what you we are going to get. I hope everyone of you feel good about it because it will be YOUR FAULT!!!!!!Obama doesn't have a chance in hell to win unless the media treats McCain like they did Hillary then maybe. Jean

ps. is this alittle better LOL LOL .

JayW said...

Aunt Jean,

You are awesome...

I go away from the computer for 30 minutes, I come back and in that time you have posted 12 more IDIOTIC posts.

You should really just stop. Every time you say something you are embarrassing yourself and showing your lack of education and class. (Not that you had anyone fooled, we all know that you are basically the "least common denominator" of our society.)

But, if it wasn’t for people like you we wouldn’t have an example to show our kids of what happens when education isnt taken seriously.

So for that, thanks.

RobH said...

Dr. in Ann Arbor,

Is that a joke, or does that actually notify someone of something?

I just e-mailed Matt & Oreo to tell them a poster has gone nuclear here. Don't know what good it will do. But the stooping to undisguise cursing (the seven words0) and direct racial ephithet will not stand.

BTW, don't seek to remove stopobamanow and/or Yam, he serves a useful purpose here. He's the perfect tool for us, if you know what I mean.

Dr. in Ann Arbor said...

Now, I'm no doctor (oh wait...yes I am), but I truly believe that Aunt Jean might be living proof that first cousins shouldn't marry and have children together....

Aunt Jean said...

dilbuck I was just telling the truth you have heard of that right. It shows that most obama supporters and obama doesn't know the truth if it hit them between the eyes.As far as knowing why I won't vote for obama either obama supporters or deaf or they just don't won't to listen but I refuse to justify my actions as to why I won't vote for that LIAR!!! Jean

Dilbuck said...

Aunt Jean,

At least 5 of the Clinton supporters on the panel agreed with the results in Michigan. In fact 8 Clinton supporters voted against the Michigan resolution out of 13. Only 8 of the members sitting on the RBC were Obama supporters so it was really a draw between the supporters. 5 Clinton supporters voted with the resolution as did the undeclared. But really go ahead and keep throwing out you Hillary propaganda while you still can because in 48 hours this thing is OVER.

jpsedona said...


How's that math working for ya?

It looks like your predictions on the RBC meeting were a touch off.

It looks like Hillary is ready to give her swan song speech as earlier as tomorrow night.

Sounds like the popular vote argument will fall on deaf ears.

It seems like the "silent majority" will remain silent.

Oh well, there's always 2016.

Dr. in Ann Arbor said...


No - no notification that I know of. Just a way to vent a little...as was my second post.

But BOY how I wish it would work. I know what you mean about St. Opobam Anow (no - I know he's not a Saint, but I like that spelling better). Maybe I should take him off the unsubscribe request...

Aunt Jean said...

DR in ann arbor if you are a doctor I'm the queen of England. You are about one sick Piece Of SH##. Jean

Dilbuck said...

Aunt Jean,

The truth? The truth and fact is that there are more white people on welfare than AA's. However, I know how your truth seems to work. You just make up your "truth" as you go along.

On another note please refrain from name-calling or vulgarity. I think most of us are adult enough to not do this. If you get that upset over a political thread you need to walk away and cool off.

Mug said...

Aunt Jean,

Please spare me the conspiracy theories about how Obama and the media conspired against Clinton.

Were there sexist statement made by the media? Yes!

Were there gender insensitive statements made by Obama? Yes!

Were there racially insensitive statements made by Clinton? Yes!

Were there smears in the media about Obama? Yes!

If the feminazis want to vote for McCain because (A)They believe the media was unfair to Hillary and (B)they believe the DNC ruling on MI and FLA was unfair, then they really need to show a little maturity. (A)Obama shouldn't be punished for what the media has said. (B)There was ample opportunity to question DNC rules a year ago when they were set and agreed to by the Clinton campaign.

The DNC could NOT change the rules in the middle of the game so as to declare a new winner.

What's really sad is that feminists, who constantly complain about a gender double standard, are demanding that the DNC change the rules so as to "let Hillary win" or else they'll sabotage the general election. If the rules were changed in the middle of the primaries so that a woman candidate lost the lead to a man, the feminazis would scream bloody murder.

What Hillary's feminist supporters need to bear in mind is that if Obama loses the election, then Hillary will be made the scapegoat for "poisoning the well" and her political career will be over. The best metaphor I can think of for the behavior of Hillary and her feminist supporters is that of a "political suicide bomber" seeking to blow up their own ship because they can't be captain.

vwis said...

Aunt Jean,

Let us all pray for Ted Kennedy as he has surgery today. The risks are high. He may or may not have supported your opponent. He has been labeled the most liberal senator, but you knew where he stood. Both dems and reps respect him, because he got things done. He lost his battle for presidency, he did not lose the war.

I view myself as a centrist and fiscally responsible. That is what I like about Yam (and his sense of humor). I see you as a woman who has been pushed around and learned to stand your ground. I respect that about you. Respect is something you earn. In the past, I have commended the Clintons for their contributions to the party. Where they seem to be heading now is not admirable. She needs to accept grace.
It is no good for the party to carry this on. She is not Bill and Bill is no longer the man he used to be.

Let us not be lead by others to be hurtful and mean. Let us receive the grace we are entitled to.

JayW said...

Aunt Jean,

You are very angry today?

Are your cats ignoring you or something?

Or is it the realization that your precious HRC has no shot of winning the nomination. She can either accept defeat and save the very little bit of class she hasn't squandered away... or she can be petty and rant delusionaly, lose all credibility and be just like you.

apissedant said...

the knight family,
Thanks for the update. Every state I have lived in except Michigan has had a primary since I could first vote, so I have no idea how a presidential caucus goes, or what attendance is like. In 2000, Michigan had a caucus, but my candidate, Bill Bradley had already dropped out of the race, so I did not attend.
In any event, the fact is the caucus is what counted, and all democrats, regardless of affiliation had every opportunity to attend. No Clinton supporter's right was more infringed than any Obama supporter.

vwis said...

Aunt Jean,

Show me an honest politician and I will show you one that is unelectable.Unknown

apissedant said...

beautiful post. You show more restraint and maturity than the general population of this thread. I nominate you our Clinton ambassador.

Aunt Jean said...

leahtexas[not]4obama you know good well the caucuses were a joke and in favor of obama.So pleaseeeee don't hand me that crap. Jean

jpsedona said...

Aunt Jean,

You are "the" model of RESPECT and MANNERS. You've never allowed a "rude" comment to go unanswered. Nor have you let one "insult" be leveled at your candidate without a more divisive and angry response.

You've clearly identified that you harbor animosity towards "the other side" and have marginalized AA support for one candidate while reflecting that female support for Hillary is rational.

You've clearly made the case that you believe that Obama is liar.

There are some of us who would not support Hillary for the same reason. We belive that she is a liar. We believe that she is bad for the country. That she offers the same old-time politics.

I go beyond that. I believe she is a classic 'enabler' when it comes to Bill's long history of philandering. At her core, I believe that she has a history of denying the truth. I believe her history and vindictiveness echo the personality traits that brought down Nixon.

I believe that she felt 'entitled' to the nomination. That she is motivated to do anything to gain, hold and wield power. That she is willing to do and say anything.

So, if you are looking to blame someone for Hillary's failure to get the nomination, I suggest that it's entirely Hillary's fault. She also let Bill, who is mentally diminished since his heart bypass, alienate her from voting blocks she would need to win the nomination.

You may have a woman to vote for in 2008 GE, it just won't be her.

vwis said...

If it weren't for bad news there would be no news at all.

Ted Kennedy is having surgery
Bo Diddy dies at 79
Inferno at Universal Studios
Dow plunges 200 pts
Oil nears 130 record high, Nat gas at $12-$13 (it start at under $3 about 6 yrs ago, record high after Katrina was $15)
All commodities up
Only 2 new SDs endorsements for Obama, last I checked. (We need about 1/hr to have a nominee tomorrow.)

Let's hope this deluge of bad news turns around.

Dilbuck said...

I wonder if Hillary is conceding tomorrow night since she is returning to NYC? I guess we shall wait and see. Should be a pretty interesting 36-48 hours.

Vicki said...

what the Knight family just said - I live in WA state too. My caucus was also PACKED. literally, we didn't have enough room, and some precincts decided to meet outdoors because the room exceeded the fire code.

PACKED. I think we had literally 10 times more than was expected.

the primary was later, it was a "beauty contest", and didn't have nearly the turnout.

Dilbuck said...

Obama picks up two MI supers.

DNC- Brenda Lawrence
DNC- Lu Battaglieri

He just covered his first hour vwis. :D

vwis said...


Would you wish that upon your worst enemy?


Did you hear McCain's views this morning on Hasbullah and Israel? What's your point of view?

ed iglehart said...



greywolf said...

Just a tid bit of information.

An interview with Donna Brazil on Huffington Post.

For those that think of Obama in terms that are not very nice; I would like to point out that Donna made a statement where she explained the following.

Obama had the votes needed to split Michigan at 50/50, however Obama would not allow that vote to go forward. He insisted that CLinton be given a fair chance to negotiate a number that was more to her benifit. When given such an opportunity, not one person from the Clinton camp, (not even Hillary herself) made any attempt to contact anyone with in the RBC or any uncommitted super delegate.
NOT ONE ATTEMPT. Thus shunning the olive branch offered by Obama to Hillary, the RBC made the decision to go with the recommendation made by the state leadership.

So what ever you may think of Obama, it was he, who gave in Florida, as well as Michigan and extended the opportunity to Hillary to negociate a number directly with the RBC. It was her failure to respond in any way that resulted in the numbers being handed out as they were.

Dr. in Ann Arbor said...

Aunt Jean said...
DR in ann arbor if you are a doctor I'm the queen of England. You are about one sick Piece Of SH##. Jean

Well, then, queenie, you must be off your meds yet again. I AM a physician, and also a human being and an American. What I do for a living is immaterial here, except if you think that physicians are supposed to be 'above it all.' But I can't stand idly by while you trash everyone on this site just because they don't subscribe to your (incorrect) point of view, and refuse to talk reasonably to people. Maybe your parents AREN'T first cousins. But if not, then one of them SURELY is a Cape Buffalo.

apissedant said...

LOL! Very good point. Darn, who will take the job then?

Emit R Detsaw said...

Per Sasha Johnson, CNN:

"If all the primary results including Florida and Michigan are counted, but not the caucus votes, Clinton leads in the popular vote 17,461,845 to Obama's 17,244,762, according to CNN estimates."

"In a second scenario, which adds CNN's estimate of the caucus-goers, Obama leads Clinton 17,928,000 to 17,843,000."

As has been said many time, the popular vote doesn't really count, Michigan had an invalid (and technically uncountable) election, and since they don't count heads at every Caucus (I find that odd), you can choose your own spin. There really is no way to "Count" every popular vote. Bottome line is the delegate count.


ed iglehart said...


No I didn't hear, but you may deduce my views here

I believe, as Gush Shalom says, "Peace is with enemies" Of course we should talk with and engage everyone.

I think I can guess McChip's position.

here, from a BBC blogsite:


"They know he [McChip] isn't influenced strongly by religious figures "

But he sought out this one's endorsement!

On March 16, 2003, on the eve of the United States' invasion of Iraq, Pastor John Hagee took to the pulpit to warn of the coming Antichrist. In his sermon, "The Final Dictator," Hagee described the Antichrist as a seductive figure with "fierce features." He will be "a blasphemer and a homosexual," the pastor announced. Then, Hagee boomed, "There's a phrase in Scripture used solely to identify the Jewish people. It suggests that this man [the Antichrist] is at least going to be partially Jewish, as was Adolph Hitler, as was Karl Marx."

One more rash alliance he has lived ot regret, yet meantime, his good buddy Joe Lieberman is headlining an event sponsored by Hagee.

Wonders never cease!

Assalaam 'alaikum wa rahmatullaahi wa barakaatuhu
Peace, God's mercy and blessings be upon you (We'll all need it!)

Vicki said...

Dr. in AA, I'm a physician, too. I think she goes on/off her meds periodically. JMHO. (and probably more time off meds, than on)

Keryl said...

My, my things have gotten ugly today.

Aunt Jean, your comment about JayW is really out of line. The fact that you can't see the racist leanings of your commentary is not good. I support you on this site but I think you've gone too far, and have then gone further by blaming the people who are calling you out on it.

Perhaps you'd like to identify the race of all other posters based on what they say on these boards? I urge you to step away and do some serious soul searching before you post again.

Although, mistaking the Obama photo for a picture of JayW was the first time I have actually laughed out loud at a post. That was a good one.

greywolf said...

Just a few side notes also...

1. We need at least 30 to 35 SD to jump in now and seal this deal completely before Tuesday. That will remove any problems so that we as a party can begin to move forward.

2. All this in-house bickering, name calling, candidate slamming and such really needs to stop. The candidates have taken the high road in that they are no longer attacking each other as they both realize that it is time to come together. Yes there still remains some posturing and such, but that is normal after such a long hard fought battle for the nomination.
I would like to propose that in honor of those two great candidates, regardless of how we may feel about them individually, and stop all this nit picky bickering. It at this point and time is completely counter productive and discredits the candidates attempt to bring some so level of civility to the end of the race. Yes civility, although you may not see it, it is there.

Dr. in Ann Arbor said...

Vicki said...
Dr. in AA, I'm a physician, too. I think she goes on/off her meds periodically. JMHO. (and probably more time off meds, than on)

Vicki - couldn't agree with you more. But it's possible that if she goes back on them her suicidal ideation risk will go back up and then...well, I wouldn't want to SAY it...

Keryl said...

Bill Clinton opening a speech today:

"I want to say also that this may be the last day I'm ever involved in a campaign of this kind. I thought I was out of politics, 'til Hillary decided to run. But it has been, one of the greatest honors of my life to go around and campaign for her for president," said Clinton as he began his speech.

The fat lady is warming up.

greywolf said...

Well I have had my say for now. Time to go out and search the web more. You folks have a nice day and be nice to each other, please.

Emit R Detsaw said...

Sorry all Clinton fans, but just saw something funny I had to comment on. No offense meant.

Looking at the delegate status box in the upper left tab it looks like Clinton needs 5200.5 delegates. ;o)

I know it's only 200.5, but it gave me a smile. Maybe time to get my glasses checked again.

Emma said...

Well, I just got home from work and have caught up on this morning's postings.

Aunt Jean??? What happened to you?? Remember a few days ago you were calm and rational? Remember how several bloggers here responded that they understood, though didn't agree? Remember how pleasant it was?

I really liked responding to your posts, which were not angry and abusive. Play nice.

ctlivewire said...

I would like to here from Obama Supporters som real information.

First off I would like to know how giving the middle class a tax deduction of $1,000 is going to help if you double the capital gains tax which will effect retirement funds of those same middle class people?

I also would like to hear a real immediate energy solution! We have 1.9 million truck drivers struggling and losing their business's and farmers having trouble breaking even on diesel.

I have family serving in Iraq I am a little offended when what they are doing over there is diminished by a person who hasn't been there but once.

I know at least my brother and two cousins serving feel they are making a difference.

I have listened to televised Obama speeches. He is excellent at putting down all the current policies what is lacking is the exact platform he stands on.

Now chant with me folks


Well I tried but I fail to see exact substance in that frantic meditation.

greywolf said...

by the way.. here is one thought for you all to ponder.

there are 229 supers remaining.
some have only a half vote.
so this is not yet over when you consider that Hillary has picked up two 2 full delegates to obama's 3 of which 2 were 1/2 votes. It has me worried because I am an obama supporter. This is not a done deal, it could end up as a tie or a near tie. So if your a praying kind of person, I would recommend you do so.

vwis said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Oreo said...

New Open Thread here

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