Democratic Convention Watch: Open Thread

Tuesday, April 01, 2008

Open Thread

WE'VE MOVED! Democratic Convention Watch is now at http://www.DemocraticConventionWatch.com

Who's going to win, who has a better chance against McCain, or whatever else is on your mind.

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4317 comments:

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Leah Texas4Obama said...: Also - MSNBC on TV just said that Obama has resigned from the church.

Well, he will be living at the White House so he wouldn't be going to church in Chicago anyway ;)

Now everyone will be waiting to see where he goes to church. If I were him I'd go to lots of different ones - Catholic, Jewish, Baptist, etc. Then no one could pin anything on him anymore ;); May 31, 2008 6:14 PM
Mike in Maryland said...: If (by-then) President Obama decides to go to an 'unusual' church, but stay with a United Methodist Church, he could go to Arlington Temple United Methodist Church. It's located about two miles from the White House, so it's close.

The unusual feature of Arlington Temple is that it is built directly above a gas station. Not the usual picture of a church, don't you think?

Mike; May 31, 2008 6:22 PM
greywolf said...: Okay Alice is at it again.. this is turning into a farce; May 31, 2008 6:24 PM
RobH said...: grey,

don't worr about it, it's all theater and posturing at this point.

This is going to go well, you can read it in Ickes look of resignation.; May 31, 2008 6:28 PM
RobH said...: talk about a sore loser....

She's perfect for Hillary (the gal next to Ickes - what's her name, anybody know?); May 31, 2008 6:31 PM
Emit R Detsaw said...: RobH

Tina, but not sure the last name; May 31, 2008 6:32 PM
Independent Voter said...: Emit - The line I started to laugh at from your link was: "I was invited to meet Hillary Clinton for the first time in early April at a hotel in Washington".

Clinton's using between the sheets politics?

------------

LMAO!!!!!!; May 31, 2008 6:33 PM
greywolf said...: the audiance needs to be removed. They have no respect for the process, or the weight of the decision these people are trying to reach.; May 31, 2008 6:39 PM
Mike in Maryland said...: greywolf said...
the audiance needs to be removed.

Totally agree. And the most obnoxious members of the audience are the Clinton supporters.

And Ms. Huffman did a good job of chastising the ignoramuses in the audience when she asked if they respected democracy, and if they did, let the committee vote.

Mike; May 31, 2008 6:45 PM
ed iglehart said...: For anyone who wants to see Rev Wright's Chickens comin' home sermon, it's here

"Violence begets violence!"

xx
ed; May 31, 2008 6:47 PM
RobH said...: Actually, Harold, the most fundamental rule is:

"Majority rules!!"

Eat it.

False outrage, pandering, posturing. Bite me, pal!; May 31, 2008 6:52 PM
greywolf said...: Oh my they had to let Harold speak. I guess that is what happens in a compromise.; May 31, 2008 6:53 PM
Mike in Maryland said...: The first thing that Senator Obama needs to do on August 29 (the day after the convention) is to find some way to force Harold Ickes OFF the DNC, kick him out of the party, and to make sure that he no longer stains the memory of his father.

I am getting real tired of his whining, whining, whining, and trashing of his fellow RBC members.

Mike; May 31, 2008 6:54 PM
greywolf said...: ed, that is no longer an issue. Rev Wright is the past.; May 31, 2008 6:55 PM
greywolf said...: Hmm a threat has been issued.; May 31, 2008 6:56 PM
RobH said...: Th Clinton legacy, reduced to defending a hijacking of four delegates.

If you were ahead by 200 delegates you would not find yourself in this position.; May 31, 2008 6:57 PM
Markk said...: Man, I can't fathom how Senator Clinton actually thought that having Harold Ickes speak for her was in any way a good idea...; May 31, 2008 6:57 PM
RobH said...: LOL now I know why Aunt Jean has not been on this thread today.

That's her in the background, dishonoring her candidate.

LOL; May 31, 2008 7:00 PM
Emit R Detsaw said...: And it's really about 2 delegates because of the 50%; May 31, 2008 7:00 PM
greywolf said...: You tell them MR Ward.; May 31, 2008 7:01 PM
Dilbuck said...: Hell, just give here the damn 8 delegates so Ickes and her can crawl back into the hole they came from. Obama has won... deal with it. You have run a good campaign senator clinton but you have taken it too far. YOU LOST! Live with it.; May 31, 2008 7:02 PM
RobH said...: POWNED!

Well done, bud.; May 31, 2008 7:02 PM
Markk said...: As many people applaud everytime one of the speakers mention unity in the party, the ending of this whole proceeding doesn't sound very united...

Senator Clinton better come out with a statement (and soon) backing this compromise if she wants to seem anything other than a bitter, defeated candidate intent on damaging her party...; May 31, 2008 7:03 PM
ed iglehart said...: Greywolf,

It's a GREAT sermon.; May 31, 2008 7:07 PM
Dilbuck said...: Hopefully they will keep their word and Hill and Bill will accept what the RBC has decided. We shall see. If she takes it to the convention... Hillary will cease to exist in the Democratic party. I love the HRC reporters not acknowledging the people that stayed home or the 30k write-ins by the other voters. We only count Hillary voters... is essentially what they are saying. So tired of this RBC's partisanship on behalf of the losing candidate. If Hillary takes this to the convention she WILL NOT be reelected in NY and can therefore go with Bill back to Arkansas. She needs to accept what the RBC has decided and move on to receiving a legit cabinet position.; May 31, 2008 7:08 PM
Emit R Detsaw said...: Game; May 31, 2008 7:09 PM
greywolf said...: reiley is a clinton supporter and I commend her for her honesty and straight forward acknowledgement that the MI election was very flawed.; May 31, 2008 7:09 PM
Dilbuck said...: Reilly has completely gained my respect. She has been realistic and clear this entire meeting. I commend her on her great service that she is providing this party.; May 31, 2008 7:12 PM
greywolf said...: Only 8 of hillarys supporters were against the Michigan vote. That means that 5 of them voted agains Hillary.; May 31, 2008 7:12 PM
countjellybean said...: Question, do the superdelegates get a full vote?; May 31, 2008 7:12 PM
greywolf said...: I saw it Ed. but it is a dead issue.; May 31, 2008 7:13 PM
Emit R Detsaw said...: Matt/Oreo already have the left column updated - great work guys; May 31, 2008 7:13 PM
Dilbuck said...: Take it to the convention Howard... You will get crushed by the superdelegates.; May 31, 2008 7:14 PM
greywolf said...: I believe so Jelly supers get a full vote. It was an issue of shall vs may..and they went along with it accordingly; May 31, 2008 7:14 PM
apissedant said...: I just heard half vote a piece for PDs... I didn't hear anything about SDs specifically. I would say they would be half too. The new number is 2118.; May 31, 2008 7:14 PM
Dilbuck said...: Jelly,

If I heard it correctly, I believe they only get a .5 vote.; May 31, 2008 7:15 PM
apissedant said...: 68 more according to CNN; May 31, 2008 7:15 PM
JayW said...: I knew from her campaign actions that HRC was classless...

But I never knew her supporters were even more classless than she is. What a spectacle they made of themselves throughout the voting process today. It is just another fact that proves how unelectable HRC really is.

Obama won this nomination with class and dignity. Someone we will all be able to call our president!; May 31, 2008 7:16 PM
greywolf said...: Now to cnn to see how they compute it out. They pretty much follow DCW numbers; May 31, 2008 7:17 PM
Dilbuck said...: Words of wisdom by Chuck Todd.; May 31, 2008 7:17 PM
ed iglehart said...: I thought I heard unpledged atn one half vote; May 31, 2008 7:17 PM
apissedant said...: CNN and DCW differ on the magic number by one person. What gives?; May 31, 2008 7:17 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Yahooooooooooooooooo!

Needed to win:

OBAMA 46

Clinton 240.5; May 31, 2008 7:17 PM
greywolf said...: JayW said...
I knew from her campaign actions that HRC was classless...

could not have said it better JayW; May 31, 2008 7:18 PM
greywolf said...: question is how many of edwards supporters will go to obama; May 31, 2008 7:19 PM
RobH said...: No, gang, it's half pledged aAND supers. Todd just said new magic number is 2118. (It would be 2131 if supers were full votes.); May 31, 2008 7:19 PM
Dilbuck said...: It's a good day to be in the Obama campaign. They have to be happy with the results. Should only take 25 supers or so to wrap up the nomination. We should see an end by Wednesday and that should be it. Good campaign HRC, time to move to the GE. Get behind the Nominee Barrack Obama. Time to take down McCain.; May 31, 2008 7:20 PM
apissedant said...: Holy crap, CNN sucks butt. That's legal terminology for they are full of crap.; May 31, 2008 7:21 PM
Dilbuck said...: Too bad that Yamadamadingdong can't join us in the victory celebration.; May 31, 2008 7:24 PM
greywolf said...: meaning what apissedent?; May 31, 2008 7:25 PM
apissedant said...: According to CNN, and their wonderful judgment, Obama will likely get 4 of Edwards uncommitted PDs, while Clinton will get 10. And Obama is only ahead in Montana and South Dakota according to the "polls", so they of course split the delegates in half, because after all, they are just, "polls". Then Clinton is apparently, "WAY AHEAD" in Puerto Rico, apparently that particular poll is the only one that gets said without putting a dirty taste in Blitzer's mouth. Therefore they allocated her over 60% of the Puerto Rican delegates. WOW THEY ARE FULL OF CRAP. They just want news so bad, they make it up.; May 31, 2008 7:25 PM
Peter said...: Ickes talking about how this was like "hijacking" 4 delegates and how EVIL this was against the poor candidate called "uncomitted".
I think his comments helped Obama big, I think Ickes lost a lot of credibility among Clinton supporters. Most people don`t find swearing on live TV all that attractive.; May 31, 2008 7:27 PM
RobH said...: Leah,

I don't know how you get to 46 to go.

It's 65 to go.
New magic number is 2118
New Obama total is 2053

1884 per DCW today, plus 34.5 (1/2 FL) plus 29.5 (1/2 MI), plus 2.5 (1/2 FL supers), plus 2.5 (1/2 MI supers).

He'll pick up 1 in Maine, and 42 in PR, MT & SD, and 5.5 Pelosi group Weds.

So I say he's 16.5 SD's short. Love to see them Monday, instead of waiting for the add-ons.; May 31, 2008 7:27 PM
apissedant said...: Most Edwards delegates will go to Obama. Even in South Carolina, which probably had the most racially segregated vote of the primaries, Obama still got most of the Edwards PDs so far. The idea that the others would go with Clinton, especially after that display of garbage, is VERY unlikely.; May 31, 2008 7:28 PM
Dilbuck said...: I agree apissedant. The Clinton News Network at it again. They won't split South Dakota and Montana and PR will be closer than 60-40. Oh well! Just less Supers that Obama has to clinch. This should be wrapped up next week unless HRC decides to commit political suicide.; May 31, 2008 7:28 PM
Vicki in Seattle said...: it's all over but the shoutin'.; May 31, 2008 7:28 PM
greywolf said...: They admitted their numbers were wrong apissdent. He was having trouble pulling 7 down for Obama.
they were just giving an example or trying to show how close Obama really is even with this ruling and how very far away Hillary really is; May 31, 2008 7:28 PM
Hippolytus said...: Harold Icky can go in the corner and suck on his lemon. By his tantrum today, he has closed any possibility that Obama will turn to what's her name for VP. Eat it, Harold!; May 31, 2008 7:29 PM
apissedant said...: oh, and by most, I mean all. As far as the whole Edwards comment. Only people IN Hillary's camp are willing to put up with this crap, and some of them are getting upset. CNN also says they have the best political team, but I think this website does. ;); May 31, 2008 7:30 PM
greywolf said...: They even said that Obama was ahead in both MT and SD, but for this example they just split it.; May 31, 2008 7:30 PM
tmess2 said...: Well, if I understand the decision, I think that puts Edwards back up to 6.5 in Florida until we know more about selection process of delegates in Florida. By my rough estimate, it looks like Obama needs around 30 more unpledged delegate votes between now and Tuesday to be the presumptive nominee when he speaks in Minneapolis.; May 31, 2008 7:31 PM
billyjay66 said...: total votes Clinton gained: 25.5

Florida.....18
Michigan....5
Supers.....2.5

Lead was 202 now is 176.5

If clinton got full seating lead would be.....151

Obama needs 27 more SD and 40 pledged out of 86

If Obama has three dozen in the queue that does it.; May 31, 2008 7:31 PM
greywolf said...: I dont want to sound sexist because I will never be... but did any one notice that those causing all the rucus were hillary's female supporters? Or is my perception wrong.; May 31, 2008 7:32 PM
Hippolytus said...: Peter said...
"Ickes talking about how this was like "hijacking" 4 delegates and how EVIL this was against the poor candidate called "uncomitted"."
________
At least Ickes made the point (indirectly) that the number of so-called "hijacked" delegates is four, in a race that Obama is winning decisively. He made want to reconsider that talking point, but I thank him for making it.; May 31, 2008 7:33 PM
apissedant said...: greywolf,
You are not completely correct there. Did you here the way Blitzer said, "yeah but that's in the POLLS". After just confirming that Clinton was WAY AHEAD in Puerto Rico. They were planning on splitting the Edwards delegates 50/50 anyways... which considering Edwards endorsed Obama, and SDs have been flooding him.... seems absolutely astoundingly retarded to assume that would occur.
This won't come down to the supers. Obama and his backers are smart, and the last delegate will be a PD, not an SD. Many here have said that, and I agree. CNN just wants something to talk about, because they have to fill up 24 hours.; May 31, 2008 7:34 PM
apissedant said...: Oh, the, "yeah, but that's in the POLLS" was in relation to SD and Montana polls. He made it clearly understood that he does not believe those polls. He however quickly confirmed that Clinton is way ahead in PR, which is based of A poll, not even POLLS.; May 31, 2008 7:36 PM
ed iglehart said...: Greywolf,

You may be sexist, but you're right as well.; May 31, 2008 7:37 PM
Unknown said...: wow...hillary just got totally shafted. And to those of you who are upset about the way the protestors acted, how else do you expect them to voice their feelings. They have just been told that their votes are not as important as the votes of others. Reminds me of back when a certain group of people were only coutned as 2/5ths. I'm going to vote for Obama in the general but the DNC has lost a lot of my respect for allowing this to happen.
Obama/Clinton 08; May 31, 2008 7:37 PM
Markk said...: Regardless what the actual numbers are, it's all over but the cryin'...

And on a side note, I think Senator Obama would be making a HUGE mistake by offering to share the ticket with Senator Clinton. As the sole moderate Republican in a family and social circle of rabid and vocal Republicans, having HRC on the ticket would do more to 'get out the vote' than anything the Republican party could do itself...; May 31, 2008 7:38 PM
greywolf said...: Okay I will give you that apissedent. That is pretty what Blitzer said. However the guy spinning the numbers on the system said this is just an example, kind of not buying into that what wolf said.; May 31, 2008 7:39 PM
Amot said...: Folks, we have a winner!

First, as for endorsements this week, no one guessed either of the numbers, greywolf is the closest, next in line are me and Leah.

Second, as for FL and MI, MikeM was the one with the most correct prediction (100% correct). However, Peter and Leah both stated the decision will be "FL as is, MI 69/59 with half votes". They didn't say half votes refer to supers too, but for the unity of the party I accept they did. Therefore we have three 100% correct answers to the third question.

That puts LEAH, out Texan candidate for president, endorsed by many and saved recently by karma, overall winner and best predictor of DCW!

Congratulations, Leah!; May 31, 2008 7:40 PM
RobH said...: Like I said, grey,

I'm tellin' ya', that was Aunt Jean on live TV. Yippeeee...; May 31, 2008 7:40 PM
ed iglehart said...: Micah,

She got "shafted" because she wasn't allowed to change the rules?

Come on!; May 31, 2008 7:40 PM
Oregon Dem said...: Wow:

I have to tell you taht even my wife watched all day long the deliberations of the RBC...

The TV is in a different room than the computer so I have stayed off all day.

As an Obama supporter I guess I could gloat, but I think not. I really felt that (and my wife agreed) that the resolution in MI should have been 73-55 rather than 69 - 59. But NOT for the reason that HI said...

Needless to say whatever was decided was decided and whichever metric is used will be surmountable and our party's nominee will be Senator Obama.

In my opinion, the only way this will do to the credentials committee is if the delegate count is 2116 for Senator Clinton and 2118 for Senator Obama which will not happen...

Obama 08; May 31, 2008 7:41 PM
greywolf said...: micha, the majority of Hillary's supporters there were not from the two states in question. There were people from every state there demonstrating. There were 35 from oregon that Iknow of.; May 31, 2008 7:42 PM
Independent Voter said...: Ok, I was about to make a real anti-Hillary statement. I was literally about to click on "Publish your comment" and decided to come back up and erase what I had written.

This is the absolute time to NOT gloat! Am I happy with the decision? Absolutely, but I also believe it is no time to rub anyone's nose in it.

If Hill takes this to the credentials committee as Ickes suggested, she will have absolutely killed any shot she may have had at any elected or appointed office ever again.; May 31, 2008 7:42 PM
greywolf said...: Oregondem...

If you noticed they pretty much followed what the state leadership asked for.; May 31, 2008 7:43 PM
countjellybean said...: Sorry, I've got Obama at 1723.5 PDs, one less than the number at top.

Before the meeting, Obama was at 1660.5 PDs. Add 67/2 for Florida, 59/2 for 1723.5.

The IBM guy from the Apple commercials should play me.; May 31, 2008 7:47 PM
Peter said...: RE Amot
I actually didn`t mean 50% penalty for supers, so all do what I hope Clinton will do. I concede and accept my defeat;); May 31, 2008 7:47 PM
Amot said...: Obama will speak on CNN about leaving chirch, he could comment the results of RBC meeting too!

In my opinion when we add some Edwards' delegates plus the endorsements in the next three days, he will claim victory Tuesday evening! I expect 25 from PR, 9 MT and 8 SD, total 42, so he needs some 20 more endorsements :); May 31, 2008 7:47 PM
Gator said...: This blog was Clinton vs Obama,
it now will likely will turn to McCain v. Obama.
I have never seen anything like the Circus I just watched.
For a Committee to award delegates to a non-candidate based on some voodoo calculations is a insult to all Democrats. I for one will never vote any candidate selected
by self appointed gurus of the voters intent.
I will not defend McCain or promote him on this thread, but I pray he wins, so this party can be purged of the Obama infestation.; May 31, 2008 7:49 PM
Anonymous said...: amot, tomorrow he'll add an sd from maine. The add on is determined by the democratic chair and he already said he'll pick an obama supporter.; May 31, 2008 7:52 PM
Dave in NC said...: YEEEEHAWWW!

No more of Yam/StopOBABAnow's stupid math.

I guess he is out committing hari kari.

If a plane hits a building tonight, I guess we know who will be flying it.

To our next president, Barack Obama!

Goooobama !!; May 31, 2008 7:53 PM
Oregon Dem said...: Dang It!

I just remembered that Yamaka is on vacation and was so looking forward to his new math formula....

I will have to fill in for him:

= = = = =

Yamaka says:

The new math is:

1876.5 + 241 = 2117.5 (.5 more than needed for the nomination).

There are 291 delegates left to be decided!

The million dollar gal will get 55 of the 86 remaining pledged delegates!!!!

That means she, THE MAJORITY CANDIDATE, only needs 185 of the remaining super delegates!!!

There are 205 Super Delegates remaining!!!!

All of them are for Clinton because Obamabush has used all his up - they have already had many reasons to come out.

I am confident now that Hillary Clinton will be or nominee.

Obamamaniacts will you all support her?; May 31, 2008 7:55 PM
Dave in NC said...: Gator said:
"I will not defend McCain or promote him on this thread, but I pray he wins, so this party can be purged of the Obama infestation."

And the losers get sorer and sorer.

Gooooobama !!; May 31, 2008 7:56 PM
apissedant said...: No one was ever counted as 2/5s, they were counted as 3/5s. They also were unable to vote. Their OWNERS got 3/5s of an extra vote for each one of them. I don't think that is anywhere near comparable. That is a DISGUSTING comparison.

Grey,
Again, Blitzer said, "yeah, but that's in the POLLS" in reference to SD and Montana, as if the polls don't mean much. This was IMMEDIATELY after he AGREED that Clinton was WAY AHEAD in Puerto Rico.; May 31, 2008 7:56 PM
Dave in NC said...: Oregon Dem,

Don't forget that even the pledged delegates can vote for whomever they want, so Hellary will get ALL of them and win unanimously!; May 31, 2008 7:58 PM
ed iglehart said...: Gator,

Surely you don't want to be friends with icky ickes!

yuck!; May 31, 2008 7:59 PM
greywolf said...: Okay no gloating.. lets not rub it in. It is time to accept the RBC ruling and move on united. Those that can not appreciate how difficult that decision today was did not listen to what was said.

NO more infighting lets united as democrats against republicans.; May 31, 2008 7:59 PM
greywolf said...: I understood the guy running the numbers differently apissedent. but that okay... I never listen to wolf any more any way.. but I do like to listen to his guests they do not normally express the same views as wolf. Heck Jack has fought wolf tooth and nail on this for a long time now.; May 31, 2008 8:02 PM
apissedant said...: grey,
That's all I'm saying, Blitzer had a VERY biased tone that was uncalled for. The guy running the screen was ok honestly. He seemed to be giving Hillary the benefit of the doubt in order to show that no matter how you show it, she can't win. Blitzer didn't want to accept this, because he'll lose hours of silly issues to talk about.; May 31, 2008 8:03 PM
apissedant said...: grey,
haha, we ended up agreeing at the end. You and I can't be politicians. There is no room for compromise in Washington.; May 31, 2008 8:04 PM
greywolf said...: actually apiss...

BLitzer is a hillary supporter... everyone knows that. Heck carvelle is the major contributor to the blitzer show, that came from wolf's mouth. that is when I knew that wolf was backing Hillary.; May 31, 2008 8:05 PM
Dave in NC said...: greywolf,

DAMN STRAIGHT I'm gonna gloat! After all of the stupid, illogical bullshit we have had to put up with from a couple of stupid Hellary supporters and a few Republican spam bots.

Let them all creep back into the swamp from which they came. They are not needed to win the GE, common sense alone will do that for us!; May 31, 2008 8:05 PM
Independent Voter said...: So it appears that gator is in favor of NOT counting those 80% of the 30,000 write-in ballots that went for Obama.

So I guess gator was in favor of Hillary's proposal of giving her all 128.; May 31, 2008 8:08 PM
greywolf said...: well guys and gals im out of here for a while .. I need a break.. I have a severe case of tb.. tired buns. back a later this evening. Maybe some sd will jump on board tonight.; May 31, 2008 8:09 PM
apissedant said...: grey,
He may be a supporter of her, but he supports himself more. The fact is that these guys are constantly grasping at straws to find a story to talk about. He knows the gravy train is about over, and that isn't good for him.; May 31, 2008 8:09 PM
apissedant said...: Dave,
That's great. I love the comments on gloating. Good for you.; May 31, 2008 8:12 PM
greywolf said...: Independent..

Your right bout gator. I also think that information is what swayed those hillary supporters. Knowledge of facts is a very strong force. Hard to argue against facts and they realized that after hearing the facts.; May 31, 2008 8:12 PM
apissedant said...: grey,
Case in point, are you still watching CNN? This is the biggest nonstory I have seen in awhile. They are complaining that a website told them the price of gas was 4.05, and that when they got to the station, it was actually 4.09!!!!; May 31, 2008 8:13 PM
Oregon Dem said...: Prediction time?

#1

My guess is that Amot will run another poll of us DCW followers... and one question will be: How many super delegates come out in support of Obama before the polls close on Tuesday? Other question will be: How many for Clinton? Last will be: How many switches?

#2

My guess is that Obama does not have enough supers to announce before Tuesday and quite unfortunately for him the between Wednesday and Friday of next week and on one of those days he will go over the top.

#3

Aunt Jean and Yamaka will vote for McCain in the fall.

#4

Senator Clinton will not be the Veep for Senator Obama

#5

By June 15th Senator Obama will have enough delegates to win even under a full seating of both MI and FL under any metric.

Anybody else?; May 31, 2008 8:13 PM
Anonymous said...: The actual vote today was not about seating delegates, but on splitting the Party and insuring a republican victory in Nov.
A majority of the RBC voted for splitting the Party.
Sad indeed.; May 31, 2008 8:15 PM
greywolf said...: I know apiss.. trust me I dont like wolf... I listen to everyone but him... I sent him a note telling him that his spin is making me ill.. that in my opinion he was all about hipe and media ratings and did not seem to care about presenting factual information that we could digest ourselves... he banned me from future comments.. which told me I hit a nerve with facts. LMAO; May 31, 2008 8:16 PM
Independent Voter said...: grey-I think you're right on that being the driving force for them to break the way they did.; May 31, 2008 8:18 PM
greywolf said...: Oregon dem

I dont know, i think this will all be over by tuesday night or early wedneday morning.; May 31, 2008 8:19 PM
magia said...: I think some of you may have missed a pretty important point today, and maybe it's been kind of a clever move, because . . .

Had the DNC allotted MI by the actual vote it would now be a done deal, with no "real" valid protest. And yes, realize it, Obama could have handled not getting that uncommitted vote, or any portion thereof, with virtually no bad effect. He would have gotten to his magic number anyway, and that would have been that.

Instead, however, the DNC allotment of the votes, made arbitrarily on one point, and given to a non-candidate on another point, runs counter to DNC rules and counter to any voting rules.

Actually, this mis-handling of MI leaves the issue open to appeal on July 31 (or the convention) and thereby leaves the "end" of this open as well. Obama's campaign would have been better served to give those delegates up and proceed without any contested decision.

As for leaving the church, do you really see that as a positive? To me it looks rather weak.; May 31, 2008 8:21 PM
greywolf said...: I really belive that come tuesday night when obama talks those supers want him to be able to really make a resounding call for unity. Tuesday night will be the night for it. I also belive that with it playing out that way hillary will also conceed tuesday night or early wednesday morning.

thats is just my opinion; May 31, 2008 8:22 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: RobH-

Yep - I typed the wrong numbers in my post up above, it should have been:

OBAMA 64
Clinton 240.5

Amot - Yippee! I won! I can't believe it - since my guessing was based on 'what I felt' and not on analyzing any past data :)

OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA '08
.; May 31, 2008 8:25 PM
ed iglehart said...: Magia, Namaste

I'm with you on both counts. Did you see the briar patch article?

I thought Obamas strongest position on Rev Wright was the one he took in the Philadelphia speech, and even that was hedged. Rev Wright is a damned fine preacher and a man of peace and love.

A great pity that Obama has to distance himself as it is also a pity he has to hold his tongue on the atrocity that is Zionism

Just my not-so-humble opinion.

Salaam/Shalom/Shanthi/Dorood/Peace
-ed; May 31, 2008 8:37 PM
Hippolytus said...: magia said...
"Had the DNC allotted MI by the actual vote it would now be a done deal, with no "real" valid protest. And yes, realize it, Obama could have handled not getting that uncommitted vote, or any portion thereof, with virtually no bad effect. He would have gotten to his magic number anyway, and that would have been that."
_________
I take your point, magia, but it should also be remembered that the difference between the Clinton position and the Michigan compromise was only 4 delegates (and with each counting .5, only 2 votes difference at the convention). Ickes charge that the Michigan compromise "disenfranchised 600,000 voters" is specious. It most, the 4 delegate difference translates to about 37,000 votes (6.25% of ballots cast). I'd be willing to spot Clinton those two measley votes if she can make up the difference. The fact is, she can't.
Had Obama caved and accepted the Clitnon split in MI (especially after he graciously accepted the results of FL), it would have looked liked Clinton had rolled him. He would have looked weak. The Michigan compromise was just that, a compromise, put forth by the Michigan group itself. Bravo!; May 31, 2008 8:40 PM
Amot said...: OR Dem,
I was actually thinking of such a quiz :)

But I think we know the answer: 20 super + 42 PD + 3 Edwards' FL (6 half votes) = 65. He needs 64 so 20 supers should be enough. I have to remind that Obama's campaign has higher number of supers than DCW does so maybe they will claim victory even with 18 more supers. He has one super secured - ME add-on tomorrow, and he has an announcement about endorsement Tuesday morning, so he needs 17 if the other estimations prove to be correct. I am curious to see if Sunday will be unusually active day, or lazy one as it has been recently. But he better starts with 3 or 4 endorsements tomorrow :)

One more reason not to start a poll - Leah will emotionally say 47 and will surprise all of us guessing it correct :); May 31, 2008 8:41 PM
Mike in Maryland said...: Leah Texas4Obama said...
Amot - Yippee! I won! I can't believe it - since my guessing was based on 'what I felt' and not on analyzing any past data :)

Leah,

Didn't you read above where we're not supposed to gloat on winning? And what did you just do above?

GLOAT!

Shame, shame on you!

VBG

Congrats on winning Amot's contest!

Mike; May 31, 2008 8:41 PM
RobH said...: Magia,

I was about to post that I agreed with you completely, and better to have a higher to-go number than any contestable result, when I realized something else.

Actually the Obama decision represents his commitment to principle, and consistency, and unification.

Here's what I mean:

He could have "gamed" it, but that would have been stepping away from reality, which he just doesn't do. Could be seen as "just old fashined politics, after all." A valid argument is MI was no real primary, everybody knows it. (Hillary does.) 64:64 was every bit as realistic as 73:55.
so what does he do? He allows the MI Dem party to their best to fairly apportion, then he UNITES by accepting theier wisdom. That is inclusion for ya'. Not "gaming for a desired result, but doing what's right for a bigger need.

Just ask Don Fowler. His admonition to Ickes, Fowler being an arch Clinton supporter) to DO WHAT'S RIGHT, in advance of Ickes predictable charade, was one of the best statements of the day (after Wexler and Levin.); May 31, 2008 8:42 PM
Amot said...: MikeM,
I believe you have been cheated by those bloody switches you relied on ;) Otherwise you would be the winner! However feel free to guess the number of supers between now and polls close on Tuesday :); May 31, 2008 8:44 PM
Hippolytus said...: Jim said...
"The actual vote today was not about seating delegates, but on splitting the Party and insuring a republican victory in Nov."
_________

So you're going to pout like that little weasel, Ickes? Have fun sucking on your lemon. WAAA WAAA WAAA!; May 31, 2008 8:47 PM
Amot said...: Jim, you must be happy!
You posted at another thread on the blog that you are Republican, so if today's decision grants the victory to your candidate you must celebrate!; May 31, 2008 8:49 PM
tmess2 said...: Looking at the RBC, the Clinton supporters voted 12 to 1 to seat Florida in full. The Clinton folks voted 8 to 5 against the 69/59 split. That means that 5 of the people pledged to Senator Clinton recognized that her claim on Michigan was factually and legally so without merit that they were willing to publicly vote against her position.

The RBC voted in accordance with the language and spirit of the rules. While some of the most extreme fight to the death supporters of Senator Clinton would not accept any decision that did not throw the rules out the window and ignored the problems with the Michigan primary, most true Democrats will accept this decision as something that everyone can live with.; May 31, 2008 8:55 PM
RobH said...: Jim said:

"The actual vote today was not about seating delegates, but on splitting the Party and insuring a republican victory in Nov.
A majority of the RBC voted for splitting the Party.
Sad indeed."

Yes, I certainly sensed that hidden agenda behind the masks of all of those committed, well meaning, thoughtful decision makers, as they struggled with complex emotion-charged, issues. They were surely just acting (and well) 'cause they really just want to "split this party, baby. We just want McCain to win in Nov."

Yep, Ickes is right, and everybody else is wrong.

Deluded you are, Jim. Better to have just just posted the last line, and left it at that.; May 31, 2008 8:56 PM
RobH said...: Tmess2

Well stated, both the implication of the voting pattern, and the probable outcomes.; May 31, 2008 9:00 PM
apissedant said...: magia,
I would have to completely disagree with you. If the committee had gone back on their word, it would have looked bad for themselves. Also, it would have validated her idea that she got 360,000 votes and Obama got zero. This means she WOULD be the popular vote leader. As it was settled, both by those that supported her, and those that did not, the primary was not a valid primary. The vote total cannot be used, because the entire election was a farce.
Also, if he had not gained the undecideds, and she had been able to steal a large portion of them, then she could quite likely end up with the PD majority.
This would give Hillary both the PD majority, and the PV majority. Then she would never stop crying. If Obama still won after that, they could legitimately say that he stole the election with SDs.; May 31, 2008 9:04 PM
apissedant said...: I say this, because the line Hillary supporters wanted was Obama getting O PDs in Michigan. This she hoped would allow her to steal most, if not all of the 55 uncommitted delegates. This would have left Obama needing 54 PDs for the majority, with the next two constants giving him... what, 40?; May 31, 2008 9:09 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Today's RBC meeting...

I was pretty proud of and impressed by Wexler, Brazile, and Germond (and Chair Roosevelt and Co-chair Herman).

I thought Levin was going to be more of a Hillary supporter and cause problems, but he surprised me that he wanted a fair resolution.

I was shocked at the overwhelming vote for the second motion on Florida. I couldn't believe that EVERYONE voted for it :)

I was shocked at what a poor loser that Ickes is and really disappointed in him for using vulgar language on TV while children are still awake.

I think that if Hillary does take her complaint regarding Michigan to the Credential Committee that she will look ridiculous - 4 delegates is a non-issue in the overall picture.

I am VERY HAPPY and THRILLED that everything went well for Senator Obama today :)

OBAMA '08; May 31, 2008 9:10 PM
apissedant said...: hip,
I got the impression that many of her supporters wanted it 73/55, with the 55 being completely uncommitted, not committed to Obama. This would allow them to steal the 55, and walk away with all 128.; May 31, 2008 9:15 PM
Meg said...: I heard or read that the Credentials Committee could meet very soon if Hillary plans to take this further. Those Hillary supporters in the audience were one loud bunch of angry women. No class.

Now, if only the SD's will come on down!; May 31, 2008 9:18 PM
jpsedona said...: Here for just a few...

Some observations:

1) Does anyone have a doubt that Carl Levin is the force behind the MI screw uP?

2) The Obama camp should have said we agree with the 69-59 comprimise, BUT we would agree to the 73-55 provided that Obama is awarded the 55 uncommitted. This would have been a 'healing' strategy given there was a high likelihood that the delegates would be cut in half.

3) The RBC made a tactical mistake in agreeing to the 69-59 compromise. Not because it will affect the nomination either way, but because the compromise is arbitrary. The risk is that in the future, the counter-election 2000... 'the Dems threw away the votes and awarded delegates as the ythought the contest might come out'.

4) It was all over for Clinton's campaign when Huffman lost her proposal to sit FL in full.

5) Think Donna is over 2000? "Cheating" is a very strong word.

6) If you've never really seen Ickies in action, you got a real feel for the type of foul mouthed angry individual he really is ... (does it remind you any other female Clinton supporters on DCW that we know?)

7) If Obama covers the spread on full-vote FL & MI delegations, there will be no appeals.

8) Dean & Gore are together in NYC this evening. Anyone want to wager that Al Gore calls Bill after Tuesday and tells him it's over?

9) Members of the RBC are done for 2008. Now that there are no additional issues in front of the committee, the members will be free to endorse a candidate.

10) Do you think Harold's rant will convince some undecided SD's? I certainly think he convinced some members of the RBC... of course, not in support of Hillary.; May 31, 2008 9:18 PM
apissedant said...: I thought Levin did very well. He scored major points with his scathing opinion on NH, and his time table did a pretty good job of making Michigan look like the good guy, and the RBC of being the bad guy last year. He ended with a very good compromise that showed he wanted to move past these issues. Two thumbs up.
Wexler was really good, but there was one point where he did avoid the question, when they were talking about seating the Florida delegation in full. He walked around the answer for about 5 minutes, when he should have just said no. That the rules must require some sort of punishment, or there is no point in rules.; May 31, 2008 9:19 PM
jpsedona said...: I know that if Yam were here, he would be saddened by:

1) the death of option 5
2) that no one brought up that Obama broke rules in FL
3) that no one made as eloquent and reasoned arguments for tossing the nomination to Hillary.; May 31, 2008 9:22 PM
Amot said...: The trick is that the uncommitted slate are not chosen by uncommitted people. Obama secured 30 out of 36 at CD level with 3 uncomitted and rumors about one hidden Hillary's supporter. If Clinton was able to bribe, buy, blackmail ot somehow seduce MI state party committee to select union supporters and other folks as uncommitted statewide delegates and to buy afterward those delegates she would have a chance. But when the state party declared that they are determined to do what they think is fair, i.e. give all statewide uncommitted to Obama, that was the first GREAT news of the day and the beginning of the end for Clinton. It meant she can't get control on the 55, and that Obama will have as many as at least 49 of them, absolutely enough to reach majority and victory!

To be honest, that was the moment when I saw the light in the tunnel :); May 31, 2008 9:25 PM
apissedant said...: Levin gave a great explanation of the Michigan fiasco. They agreed to the rules, but then NH broke them, and the RBC did nothing to NH for breaking the rules. Also, Michigan is the victim of American policy. They are a huge manufacturing hub that has lost countless jobs to outsourcing for several decades. The reduced or eliminated tariffs have killed their economy. They have about a 10% unemployment, and the state as a whole is nearly bankrupt. Wouldn't you be upset? Wouldn't you try something silly to make sure your voice was heard and attempt to defend your state? Something had to be done. Was this the right thing? I don't know, it really didn't help, but I have no idea what they could have done.
Money is pouring into republican states like Florida and Virginia. They get huge payouts with their military bases, and then they keep getting huge payouts for hurricanes. YOU LIVE IN FLORIDA, GET INSURANCE! If you build your house in quicksand, I am not helping pay for the next house, that you will again build in quicksand. Michigan can't even get the money they put into transportation taxes back, getting at best 94 cents on the dollar for the last 3 decades. This, while South Dakota gets 2 dollars for every dollar they put in.
What would you do?; May 31, 2008 9:25 PM
jpsedona said...: By the way, the tuning force in the decision on MI was Don Fowler. This was a real shock to Ickies and was the real reason behind the tirade.

I would love to hear an interview with Fowler to see what changed his position in support of MI compromise. It could be that after FL 100% delegation proposal failed, he recognized it was all over for Hillary and did what was good for the party.; May 31, 2008 9:26 PM
apissedant said...: amot,
I agree. There is no room for underhanded dealings or calls of discrimination. People will still say there is, but the committee removed all merit from these arguments.
I honestly wish all the RBC members would come out and endorse Clinton. That would be hilarious, because what would Clinton say when she lost then?; May 31, 2008 9:29 PM
stopOBAMAnow said...: Hello There:

My view of the RBC Ruling:

They were terribly sloppy in the overall organization.

1. Both Yamaka (who wanted 2209 TDs) and the Left Liberal Ideologues (who wanted 2025 TDs) both lost in this battle.

2. The winner is the clumsy, arrogant RBC of the DNC:

a) They are vindictive. They awarded the Villains and punished the Victims, whose PDs got only 1/2 votes.

b) The RBC initially violated the Rule already on the Books about the maximum punishment for jumping the line (that is 1/2 vote). Now after 9 months they reversed their wrong decision to back to the 1/2 vote for the violations.

First, they over reacted and punished the peoples of MI and FL unfairly. Now they realized their over reaction and corrected it.

The RBC should be punished somehow by the People for this type of over reaction, and their eagerness to disenfranchise the voters.

c) What was the logic of removing 2 delegates from Hillary and giving it to Obama? Simply, an arrogant nonsense. The MI Democratic Party was insane in bringing it up.

MI voters mandated that 55 PDs (27.5 after the punishment) be kept "Uncommitted", which in theory belongs to four Candidates actually. Instead of dividing that up 4, they awarded all to Obama, plus they gave the stolen 2 PDs to him for removing his name from the ballot!

What a nonsense!

Yes, as Harold said Hillary should
appeals this verdict to the higher Committee (Credential Committee). That's fair.

Finally, who really lost: Hillary and the peoples of FL and MI.

In FL the victor is the Republican Party.

_____________________________

Oh Left Liberal Ideologues:

Some of you feel you won the battle. Perhaps.

But the Catastrophic War is looming where you will be given the deadly blow in November, for Nominating the least Experienced, least tested, weakest Candidate to the GE.

How many EVs will you get with your 17 million votes?

Unless the Clintons and their supporters help you your Nominee will be a dead meat in the GE!

Cindy and John McCain will be in the Inaugural Ball.

Stop Obama Now:

Obama = Bush = Disaster.

Punish the RBC!; May 31, 2008 9:43 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: WOW is this true???

The Chair and Co-chair (Roosevelt and Herman) of the RBC are ALSO the Chair and Co-chair of the Credentials Committee ???; May 31, 2008 9:50 PM
suzihussein22 said...: I believe this is from S-

Markk-Thank you. You may have noticed I posted about part of my family being Rep. all their voting life, about 60 yrs. They will not vote for McCain. They are totally ****** about Bush and can see that McCain will stay on the same path. They voted for Obama in the primary, but may completely sit out the GE for the first time in their lives.; May 31, 2008 9:52 PM
Amot said...: I am proposing a motion to ask the administrators to efectively ban Yamaka from posting here based on consistent insolent and insulting attitude toward our nominee. Please, vote! I also urge all silent readers, please, share your opinion!; May 31, 2008 9:53 PM
Meg said...: Yes!! It is true! I printed out the list (sorry no link right now) weeks ago. There are 3 co-chairs and Herman and Roosevelt are 2 of them!

There are 25 other members.

Looks like I got the list from the Democratic National Convention Committee site.; May 31, 2008 9:54 PM
Bull Schmitt said...: Good to see you didn't drown in your pool stopOBAMAnow (Yamalamadingdong). Now you can get on with your original agenda of getting McSame elected.

On behalf of DCW, allow me to wish you the best in all your future endeavours.

:-); May 31, 2008 9:57 PM
suzihussein22 said...: ed iglehart-I like O'Connell. We used to watch Sliders.

OR Dem-my take on your Fuzzy Satire-a song lyric came to mind while reading your post-

Did you finally get a chance to dance along the light of day/did you miss me while you were looking for yourself out there

dave in nc-Is there a swamp in AR, IL, or PA?

SDs-I'll say 124 because I'm emotional too, you sexists. he he; May 31, 2008 9:57 PM
Amot said...: The elections included the Chairs and 25 Party Leader and Elected Official (PLEO) members of the three Convention Standing Committees: Credentials, Platform and Rules. Each committee has a total of 186 members. An additional 161 members elected by each of the states' and territories' Convention delegations will join Governor Dean's appointments to the committees later this spring.

Credentials Committee
Elected to chair the Credentials Committee are Alexis Herman, James Roosevelt, Jr. and Eliseo Roques-Arroyo. Alexis Herman served as U.S. Secretary of Labor from 1997 to 2001. She served as DNC Chief of Staff for Chairman Ron Brown and later was named CEO of the 1992 Democratic National Convention. Since 2005, she has served as a Co-Chair of the DNC Rules and Bylaws Committee and also served as a Co-Chair of the Commission on Presidential Nomination Timing and Scheduling. James Roosevelt, Jr. is President and CEO of Tufts Health Plan, a Massachusetts based Health Maintenance Organization (HMO) and was formerly Associate Commissioner for Retirement Policy of the Social Security Administration in the Clinton Administration. He is the chief legal counsel for the Massachusetts Democratic Party and Co-Chair of the DNC Rules and Bylaws Committee. Eliseo Roques-Arroyo, a native of Puerto Rico, served as Executive Assistant to Commonwealth of Puerto Rico Senate Minority Leader Miguel Hernandez-Agosto and to Puerto Rico Delegate to Congress Antonio J. Colorado. He is a former Executive Director of the Democratic Party of Puerto Rico and presently a member of the DNC.

The Credentials Committee is charged with coordinating issues around the selection of delegates and alternates to the Convention and will likely meet in the summer. The committee will issue a report that is the first official item of business at the Convention; May 31, 2008 9:57 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: I did a search and here is a list of the Credentials Committee that came up:

http://www.mydd.com/story/2008/2/7/195633/8048

:); May 31, 2008 9:58 PM
Amot said...: Leah,
honey, those are only the Dean's slate memnbers :) Each state has one, two or more members. I actually think some have half :); May 31, 2008 10:03 PM
suzihussein22 said...: I need to edit the first part of my post from 9:52-

This is from SD-

http://tinyurl.com/4ckr4y; May 31, 2008 10:05 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: OH MY GOSH!!!

Watch this!!!

http://youtube.com/watch?v=KACQuZVAE3s

That woman got thrown out of the RBC meeting today!

Sounds like someone on this thread!!! :); May 31, 2008 10:05 PM
apissedant said...: Why did StopObamaNow talk about what Yamaka wanted? Why didn't he talk about what StopObamaNow wanted? Is he posing has his own press secretary?; May 31, 2008 10:06 PM
Keryl said...: Holy Crap -- I leave for a couple of kids soccer games and the next thing I know the whole world is upside down. It's true, at this point Clinton can continue to fight the ruling, but she'll be fighting to get to a losing position, so I hope that's the end of it. And to those who think they just voted to split the party, either way that was going to be the case. But I think they voted to protect future primaries from becoming a one day January affair.; May 31, 2008 10:07 PM
greywolf said...: Hey all I am back. I though you would like this article from the H post.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/05/barack-in-charge.html; May 31, 2008 10:10 PM
Amot said...: Leah, I remember that voice. After the first motion to set FL at full failed that woman start shouting and interrupted the members of the committee several times while speaking. I am glad they took her away! There are rules for behavior too!!!; May 31, 2008 10:10 PM
apissedant said...: Leah,
Holy crap that was great! Did you hear the way she said BLACK. For what, a BLACK man? Why was she a second class citizen again? I didn't fully get that part. Not that the rest made sense. Oh, and why can we call her white but we can't call black people black?

How do I make things in italics?; May 31, 2008 10:13 PM
Amot said...: Thanks, greywolf.
It is nice to see your/my thoughts published by someone else :); May 31, 2008 10:14 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; May 31, 2008 10:16 PM
Amot said...: ant, here you are some help on italics :); May 31, 2008 10:18 PM
ed iglehart said...: Apparently, the Republicans are
capitalizing on the disarray in the
Democrats' ranks. Now, they can
effectively counter the "Obama Girl":

Here's Republican Boy

;-)
ed; May 31, 2008 10:23 PM
greywolf said...: amot,

Yes I thought that is a very fitting and honest assessment of what happend to day. Obama has proved he can raise more money, and bring in one hell of a lot more voters than any past candidate so why should he not be as was said the party boss. lol; May 31, 2008 10:23 PM
apissedant said...: It is a shame Barack was essentially forced to leave his church. I wasn't offended by Rev. Wright or the other guy with the snip its that were originally released. I just finally watched the video linked earlier, and the sermon is actually outstanding. It isn't about racism, or hatred, it is completely the opposite! Our country is full of lazy bigots who blame first and refuse to get facts. How can we make people look? How can we make them understand? How can we educate our fellow citizens and stop the hatred?; May 31, 2008 10:24 PM
greywolf said...: by the way, has anyone heard any comments out of the clinton camp.
On cnn one of hillary's supporters stated that he doubts it will go anyfurther than tuesday. He as well as many of her supporters acknowledge already that there was no way hillary could have caught up with Obama or even come close to his numbers. He also said it was not about the candidates it was about party unity and he thinks the clinton camp will recgonize that.; May 31, 2008 10:26 PM
Bull Schmitt said...: People, people -

Sen. Clinton couldn't even hold her people on the RBC committee to support their demands for Michigan - and there's nowhere for that support to go but down in the larger Credentials committee, and then theoretically to the convention floor.

Sen. Obama should have 2210 delegates committed to him in about a week, which will render any and all arguments moot. And politicians are notorious for their self-preservation, and not backing obvious losing plays.

Better we start a pool up of who will be the last non add-on Superdelegate that jumps aboard the S.S. Clintanic. My choice is Debbie Dingell of Michigan.; May 31, 2008 10:26 PM
greywolf said...: that was my take on it apissedent.. exactly. Rev Wright became an issue in my mind after he came out and started talking again. He started showboating and actually became an embarassment for obama.
I just do not think any one should have to answer for the words of someone else even if they know them or are a member of that church. but its water under the bridge and obama did it as much for himself as for the church. Took the church out of the spotlight now.; May 31, 2008 10:29 PM
Dave in NC said...: Amot,

StopYAMMERINGnow is a pain in the butt, isn't he?

However, I believe he should be allowed to post his opinions.

Well there, I supported free speech and an endangered species in a single comment!

:); May 31, 2008 10:33 PM
greywolf said...: apissedent...

I also think rev wright came out the second time to force Obama into cutting ties with him. In hopes of taking the heat off obama. That worked, but the church was still under the microscope, which was wrong as can be. Always beleive that the witch hunt to hurt obama was a bit off base when they went after the church. But its all water under the bridge now. time to move on.; May 31, 2008 10:33 PM
Amot said...: Don't forget something else - he has not been active member of the chirch last 5 months, and he will not be next 6 months, and then he will move to D.C. So why not leave the chirch now, give them a break, make the things easier for him on religious front and... DIDN'T YOU HEAR THAT HE HAS NOT DONE HIS CHOICE YET? Chirches are now going to compete for him :) Well, every chirch wants the President of USA!; May 31, 2008 10:34 PM
Hippolytus said...: Here's a link to a Politico article that describes both Dean's handpicked 25 members to the Credentials Committee, as well as the entire Credentials Committee:
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0408/9698.html
If this thing goes to the Credentials Committee, we'll see some of the same faces, including Roosevelt and Herman, Tina Flournoy and Ralph Dawson. However, 161 of the 186 Credential Committee members will be based on primary and caucus results. Hillary's plea will be falling on deaf ears, if she tries to carry it that far.; May 31, 2008 10:34 PM
greywolf said...: I agree with you DAVE,

but it is always the same moronic babbling.. never nothing really new. The same thoughts in different order everytime..; May 31, 2008 10:35 PM
Emit R Detsaw said...: Hi NASCAR/Racing fans

Just sent a suggestion over to Obama headquarters to have him sponsor a NASCAR car for a race. Not sure that would ever happen, but would give him exposure with that crowd. NASCAR has been trying to develop diversity and this would be a good step for them as well.

I have a paint scheme for them if they want it. ;o)

08ama; May 31, 2008 10:37 PM
tmess2 said...: Based on what was said today, and my knowledge of the various rules, the RBC wraps up its business on June 21 and gives a report on its decisions to the credentials committee. The Credential Committee can't meet prior to that date since that is the deadline for the states to wrap up their delegate selection process (which includes choosing the state's representatives on the standing committee).

As to the potential Clinton challenge, it will regard not just the 4 delegates that the Clinton campaign lost, but the other 55 delegates. Whether or not the challenge has any substantial weight will depend on what happens with the 36 district delegates now awarded to Obama. If most or all of the current 36 end up as the district delegates, then Clinton is really only arguing about 23 delegates. To limit the argument to 4, Obama would have to waive his right of review.; May 31, 2008 10:38 PM
Dave in NC said...: grey,

that's the Clinton way: tell a lie often enough and it becomes the truth.

BTW, Midol missed a big opportunity by not setting up a booth near that Clinton protest crowd.; May 31, 2008 10:42 PM
greywolf said...: I had actually thought that the news would be jumping all over this and talking to the clinton camp. but it has been real quiet..in an erie sort of way.; May 31, 2008 10:45 PM
tmess2 said...: Just got an e-mail from the Clinton campaign (thinking it's probably past time I get off their e-mail list but I can't resist the desire to read really bad spin). It links to their official statement, (I think the cite has an excerpt on the front page).

The official statement basically quotes the statements of Hillary's primary representatives on the RBC Mr. Ickes and Ms. Fourtenoy accepting the result in Florida but protesting the allocation in Michigan.

BTW, I don't have anything official from Maine, but, apparently, the results of the Congressional District Caucuses stayed at 10 delegates for Obama and 6 for Clinton. I don't know if the district votes are combined for the state-wide votes or if they are going to vote a second time on Sunday to get the state-wide numbers. Even if they do re-vote, unless a large number of Clinton supporters don't return for that vote, the rest of the split should stay the same.; May 31, 2008 10:46 PM
Dave in NC said...: emit,

The NASCAR idea would never work.

Team Clinton would require that he run on three wheels and a half tank of gas.

But I imagine he would have plenty of money to apply that paint scheme you have in mind for him!

:); May 31, 2008 10:46 PM
greywolf said...: tmess,

I do not thing clinton will challange this at all. Doing so would completely ruin any chances she may have for a continued career in politics.; May 31, 2008 10:47 PM
Amot said...: To put this in front of the credential committee you need to also suggest two possible slates. If Obama changes the 36 with new ones, there will be two slates, the one totally for Obama, the other 30 out of 36. But there will not be a second slate for the uncommitted - no one can propose or chose such slate except for the state party committee. Actually if Obama wants to prevent any motion of appeal he needs to not vet the original 36 - I guess 1 or 2 the most will not commit to him officially. So there will be no alternative slate. The original idea of Clinton is to force the 55 to vote uncommitted on the first ballot with the presumption that Obama will not have majority without them. And than claim that on the second ballot there are no more pledged and everything is possible. To me it is more likely that they will find life at the Moon than this scenario to happen.; May 31, 2008 10:48 PM
ed iglehart said...: Ant,

<i> gives italics and
</i> ends them.

Same for <b> bold and
</b> ends bold

xx
ed; May 31, 2008 10:49 PM
Dave in NC said...: amot,

That is a VERY good point.; May 31, 2008 10:51 PM
greywolf said...: Amot said...
To put this in front of the credential committee you need to also suggest two possible slates. If Obama changes the 36 with new ones, there will be two slates, the one totally for Obama, the other 30 out of 36. But there will not be a second slate for the uncommitted - no one can propose or chose such slate except for the state party committee. Actually if Obama wants to prevent any motion of

Amot please put that in simpler terms for me. This is the first time I have ever been this involved and I do not get what you just said.; May 31, 2008 10:53 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Obama now needs

65 to win NOT 64.

Green Papers moved 2 Florida Edwards delegates (1/2 votes) back to Uncommitted so DCW moved them as well.

Obama 65
Clinton 240.5

HEY we are going backwards! It is time for some superdelegate endorsements ;); May 31, 2008 10:53 PM
Amot said...: I still don't have the e-mail, but if Clinton campaign has agreed on FL they are just quiting to fight for 18 more net gain. They know it is over, they just want to find a solution that will give her credit she was robbed.; May 31, 2008 10:53 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: I am reposting this on this page since it will be lost on the last page:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=KACQuZVAE3s

That woman got thrown out of the RBC meeting today!

Sounds like someone on this thread!!! :); May 31, 2008 10:58 PM
tmess2 said...: Amot, to find a challenger for the 19 state-wide (now reassigned from uncommitted to Obama), they would merely need someone that Obama vetoed. That person would have standing to argue that granting Obama the right of review was improper and the delegate selection process for uncommitted was void. (Actually since it's two separate groups of delegates PLEOs and at-large, they would need one from each group.)

If Obama does not veto anyone then the decision by the RBC would only effect the 4 delegates reallocated from Clinton to Obama -- not much of a challenge.; May 31, 2008 11:00 PM
apissedant said...: first,
that's to ed and the person before me who showed me how to use italics. I was apparently making mistakes with the closing portion.

Second,
And most importantly. I am very glad I googled for the superdelegate endorsement list and found this website. There are a lot of truly intelligent, insightful, and caring people on this website. Every now and then I forget how many wonderful people are in this country. I often get lost in what I see on tv, and the majority of what I meet on the street. It is nice to occasionally find a group of people that restore my hope in my country. Thank you all for that.; May 31, 2008 11:00 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: The Clinton response and the Obama response is on the front page of the DCW website - second article from the top:

http://demconwatch.blogspot.com/

.; May 31, 2008 11:01 PM
countjellybean said...: Well if Hillary has accepted the Florida result, it means she has accepted the concept of the 50% penalty. That's more important than the Michigan count.

If she shoots for 73-0 in Michigan, she will look completely, well, bonkers. And if she goes for 73-55, it will affect the outcome not a whit.

Thanks for the update on the GP numbers, Leah.; May 31, 2008 11:02 PM
stopOBAMAnow said...: Hello the Champions of Free Speech and Fairness:

Won't you think the angry fire of Harriet Christian, the woman who left the RBC Meeting cursing the Democratic Party, engulf the heartland of America?

What would happen if 50 million Harriet Christians decide to trip the Apple Cart of your Weakest Nominee in half a Century?

Believe me guys, you NEED all the Harriet Christians you can find in America for your Empty Suit to move into the WH!

That won't happen in real America!

Choose Hillary or McCain.

Bush = Inexperience = Incompetence = Disaster.

Obama = Inexperience = Disaster.

Stop Obama Now. He is ObaBush!; May 31, 2008 11:03 PM
greywolf said...: reserving the right to challange does not necessarily mean she will challange... Right?; May 31, 2008 11:06 PM
greywolf said...: well everyone.. I am gonna head out of here for the night. See you all some time tomorrow. It was fun, glad to have spent the time in here with such a great group of people.; May 31, 2008 11:10 PM
Amot said...: Greywolf, if you want a delegation to be seated in a different way than the original, you have to propose two lists of delegates. In our situation after vetting procedure in MI you will have list of old delegates considered 'uncommitted' and list of new ones, considered 'pledged to Obama'. MI state party delayed their state committee meeting in order to avoid option for two lists of statewide delegates too. So if Obama decides not to vet the original 36 Clinton can only argue that the list must be shortened with 4 delegates. She can than propose a list of alternative 4 delegates vetted by her campaign to replace 4 of the Obama's statewide. But that is all, no other change can occur. However If those uncommitted delegates belonged to let's say Biden and were transfered to Obama by RBC decision, Biden could ask the Credential committe to give them back to him and propose his own list (slate). The uncommitted , unfortunately for Hillary, are officially recognized as preference, but can not be officially represented by anyone, therefore they can't give a list of their own (they have no official vetting body). So her MI case is lost. The maximum she can hope to get is MI seated at full (but if she has agreed on FL half seat there is no valid argument to seat MI at full) and/or to take 4 delegates out of what Obama got today, which is a drop in the ocean...; May 31, 2008 11:14 PM
RobH said...: YamObamaNow:

"What would happen if 50 million Harriet Christians decide to..."

Do some rough math for me to tell me where you're gonna find 5o Million.

You know, like gender break down's, age breakdowns, ethnicity breakdowns (nervous breakdowns?)

Ain't no 50M...maybe 50K.

BTW, what ever happened to that MASSIVE protest that the Clinton's (had nothing to do with) organized?

Hmmmm?; May 31, 2008 11:15 PM
RobH said...: I confess,

I've started coming here, scanning for Yam's writings. Kind sick, huh?
Some ...Pavlovian thing? IDK.; May 31, 2008 11:16 PM
tmess2 said...: You know tonight is the first time I have even seen protests from the supporters of the winner. Senator Clinton got 80% of what she could have reasonably have expected from the RBC meeting.

While her comments in New Hampshire may not have been reported by local papers, her statements and the fact that the Michigan primary did not count got big play in the national media.

There was no way that the RBC, without acting like the conservative activist judges who decided Bush v. Gore, could have waived the 50% penalty to either state. Based on the facts on the ground, they had to give Senator Obama the right to review both the Florida delegation and the Michigan uncommitted.

That leaves the dispute over 4 delegates from a fatally flawed primary. However, a resolution that split the delegation 64-64 would have been just as factually and legally valid as one splitting it 73-55. She got a compromise slightly in her favor.

The votes have been counted, the delegates will be in after Tuesday. It's time to call in the dogs and accept the results.; May 31, 2008 11:18 PM
Amot said...: tmess,
the point is Obama does not have to veto anyone of the candidates for uncommitted. He can rely on the state committee to do the job for him and chose only his supporters. Clinton lost the battle when the state party came to an agreement. Otherwise of course you have a point, though being vetoed, doesn't necessarily mean you would be chosen delegate :); May 31, 2008 11:19 PM
Dave in NC said...: Yam,

There aren't 50 Harriet Christians in THE WHOLE WORLD let alone 50 million.

Obama doesn't need her vote (or yours either) to win.

Besides, she will be dead by November anyway, a liver can only take so much.; May 31, 2008 11:20 PM
suzihussein22 said...: Those are wonderful words I'm hearing tonight from 2 of you guys. I hope they're not goodbyes. I get the warm fuzzies from most of you and then see posts from a Rep. troll. I think if only my dad were still here to react to this ****. Then I realize this is the first time he's not getting to rant with me about everything. Gotta go.; May 31, 2008 11:25 PM
Dave in NC said...: YamObamaNOW,

Why don't you invite Harriet down to Texas and the 2 of you can start your own country.

I hear vodka and peyote make a great combination.

But when you design your flag, remember, the swastika has already been taken.; May 31, 2008 11:25 PM
Hippolytus said...: "Harriet Christian" is an oxymoron.; May 31, 2008 11:25 PM
Amot said...: I believe Edwards delegates have been moved back since his slate can be changed now (probably). Does anyone know if a candidate, who withdraw can receive right of vetting and enforce it? And if Edwards didn't ask for such a right will he receive it automatically? Please, someone who listened carefull to the details to help :)

Actually if Edwards decide to make a new slate he can put 13 Obama supporters in it :) So bad news are really good news. Edwards can confirm tomorrow that he will do so :) Yet, he will not, because it will be twist of the voters' preferences. And he is a decent guy!; May 31, 2008 11:26 PM
ed iglehart said...: Ant,

You're welcome!
bold and italic!

links tutorial here

Salaam, etc.
ed; May 31, 2008 11:27 PM
Kujo said...: Numbers:

As I stated before I suspected it would be one of 3 scenario's and the second one, where split 1/2 Obama getting 55, would be most likely. At the time I said I perfered the 55 to Obama instead of the 59 because there where too many ignorant people out there who would use this to still say Obama Cheated.

My projections are now as follows

Remaining 3 races would at worst for Obama be 36 - 50 win for Clinton.

Remaining unassigned SD's would go 19 - 11 for Obama.

With the latest update with FL and MI, this would leave Obama 9 SD's short of winning. I.E. 9 out of the remaining 187.5.; May 31, 2008 11:27 PM
Dave in NC said...: Hey Yam, if those 50 million Harriets are in caucus states, their votes won't count anyway, remember?; May 31, 2008 11:28 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: RobH said: BTW, what ever happened to that MASSIVE protest that the Clinton's (had nothing to do with) organized?"
__________________

Earlier I watch a video on CNN online and it looked like less than 100 Hillary supporters were lined up across the street from the RBC building. They had signs and were yelling 'count our votes' etc. but not very loud and not many people. Not much of a protest.

Good thing Obama had his supporters stay home.

OBAMA '08; May 31, 2008 11:29 PM
apissedant said...: Ok everyone, the wife and I are going to bed. It was fun and educational. She also would like to inform you that Holland is behind Obama, so maybe we can restore some of our lost international image come November. Congrats to all Americans today, even Yam. He doesn't know it, but he was a winner today too.; May 31, 2008 11:30 PM
Dave in NC said...: hippo,

I think she is more of an ethylmoron.; May 31, 2008 11:32 PM
countjellybean said...: A little more math:

Even if one takes all 29.5 PDs from Obama and gives them to Clinton, Obama retains a lead of 78. That's with 86 left from the 3 primaries, plus 13.5 from Edwards.

.....

I'm thinking that the most likely reason that Aunt Jean isn't posting is because she is occupied taking care of her mother. A good thought for her, please.; May 31, 2008 11:32 PM

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