Democratic Convention Watch: Open Thread

Tuesday, April 01, 2008

Open Thread

WE'VE MOVED! Democratic Convention Watch is now at http://www.DemocraticConventionWatch.com

What is McCain's latest "senior moment", what does Obama need to do to win in November or whatever else is on your mind.

And please be excellent to one another. We do not accept name calling or any attacks on our commenters. Any objectionable comments will be deleted. Try to be civil.

Thanks!

Previous Open Thread is here

9481 comments:

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Beryl said...: "They" confuse education with wealth at this time because the Repugnicans have convinced them that there is a strong correlation. The correlation is there but weak. There are still poor professors and rich drug dealers.; August 23, 2008 2:21 AM
apissedant said...: beryl,
And the great mass of wealthy by virtue of birth individuals... or marriage in McCain's case.

In 2005, the Republican candidate listed the fact that Tim Kaine went to Harvard Law School as a CON.

WHAT?!?!?!; August 23, 2008 2:24 AM
Richard said...: Wouldn't it be great, though, if McCain and all the press fell for one enormous head-fake? This media uproar would be the perfect cover for a clandestine arrival by Obama's real pick. Hey, even bring Biden to Springfield, land him there, and then spring the surprise text. Whe the media go into convulsions, Biden could say, "I told you I wasn't the guy."

Meanwhile McCain's spent all morning attacking Biden--and Obama for choosing him--and looks like a fool.; August 23, 2008 2:41 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Don't everyone get too excited yet.

Over at Politico they are saying IF TRUE...

Over at DailyKos they are saying that the Obama Campaign as not yet confirmed that it is Biden.

----

So the folks that have said it has been confirmed CNN, FOX, etc. are using the unnamed source.

I bet we are going to have a HUGE surprise in the morning !!!; August 23, 2008 2:43 AM
Richard said...: Hmm. I wouldn't bet on it unless given very long odds. I'd give the field maybe one chance in five at this point. Still, nothing would surprise me.; August 23, 2008 2:56 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: IT'S OFFICIAL

http://www.barackobama.com/index.php

They announced at 3am Eastern Time!!!; August 23, 2008 3:02 AM
Richard said...: Hmm. Anyone have a text message yet? I think people are going to be kinda annoyed if the whole text message promise turns out to be nothing more than a way of collecting cell phone numbers for Obama's ground game.; August 23, 2008 3:07 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: I'm signed up to get an email - nothing's here yet.

But at least they have the photo of Obama and Biden up on the website now.; August 23, 2008 3:09 AM
Richard said...: I'm off to bed. I'll listen to music for a while and my iPod will tell me if I get any emails. Personally, I doubt it. I'm kinda left feeling blah about the way this was handled. I am moderately excited about the pick, but the pointless suspense annoys me. Ciao.; August 23, 2008 3:15 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; August 23, 2008 3:16 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Obama/Biden '08

Obama Biden Obama Biden Obama Biden Obama Biden Obama Biden
Obama Biden Obama Biden Obama Biden Obama Biden Obama Biden
Obama Biden Obama Biden Obama Biden Obama Biden Obama Biden '08; August 23, 2008 3:18 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Rich-

I am sorry that the news media spoiled the surprise for you - but please don't blame Obama - he tried really hard to keep it a secret.

Buona notte.; August 23, 2008 3:19 AM
apissedant said...: rich,
Agreed.

No text, no first notice. Not happy about that. He should have just announced earlier in the week darn it. Think he's going to get some flack for not doing the text first?; August 23, 2008 3:22 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Three winners!!!

Obama's 2008 VP Pick Contest

Vicki - Senator Biden – Sat 3 am

jean - Senator Biden

Mike in Maryland - Senator Biden

Vicki is our grand prize winner since she also guessed the correct time. The Obama website made it official when they put up the Obama-Biden photos at 3am!; August 23, 2008 3:25 AM
apissedant said...: got the text

Leah, you were right on the time. ;); August 23, 2008 3:26 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Rich-

CNN on the front page says that the text messages have gone out!; August 23, 2008 3:28 AM
Joshua said...: Don’t behave like children: but he didn’t tell me first! It is not his fault that the Secret Service told ABC that they were off to protect Biden. There was no leak from Obama. His announcement came via his website. This is the internet age. Text message is so yesterday. Everybody who is anybody can log in to http://www.barackobama.com/index.php and see it.

MSM is upset that they are not being recognized for the prima donnas they are. I hear that CNN was running around today like the fools they are. With the media staking out O’Hare Airport and the house of every potential pick, it is impossible for the information not to get out.; August 23, 2008 3:29 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: me, suzi, and Vicki all guessed 3am, but Vicki guessed Biden too - so VICKI is the GRAND PRIZE WINNER ;)

Let's all send her a virtual hug ;); August 23, 2008 3:32 AM
Joshua said...: I am glad he waited till the last possible moment to announce his pick. There was no upside to an early announcement. It has to be as close to the convention as possible. Otherwise the media will spend the week before tearing his pick apart. Already the first thing I hear out of the mouth of some talking head on MSNBC was “The republican will now point to Biden’s plagiarism and his statements about Obama not being qualified.” With friends like that on MSNBC who needs enemy republicans? Just like some nitwit on this site who thinks he is doing Obama a favor by spreading the smear against him. Dumbassess.; August 23, 2008 3:33 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: CNN was already bringing up stuff about Biden tonight.

And McCain has already released some B.S.

Get ready - it's gonna be a fight all the way until November :); August 23, 2008 3:36 AM
apissedant said...: Of course it will Leah, but we knew that long before tonight. It got dirty early, and it'll just get dirtier.; August 23, 2008 3:38 AM
apissedant said...: night Leah!; August 23, 2008 3:38 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Goodnight ap and everyone :); August 23, 2008 3:44 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Here's the OFFICIAL announcement on the Obama blog:

http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/post/samgrahamfelsen/gG5sB7

.; August 23, 2008 3:53 AM
Karen Anne said...: Leah, I looked up the Biden aneurysm thing and they were twenty years ago. Also, I believe they can check for those now.; August 23, 2008 5:33 AM
Beryl said...: I'm so excited, y'all and ready to watch Biden do what he does best -- speak truth to power!; August 23, 2008 5:55 AM
suzihussein22 said...: I just saw the news on Yahoo before I could check email.; August 23, 2008 6:28 AM
Beryl said...: Love it!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPev5sEdTjg; August 23, 2008 6:33 AM
suzihussein22 said...: beryl-It has music from Spirit. My daughter will vote for them. I wonder if his daughters had anything to do with selecting that music.

AMERICA 08 OBAMA/BIDEN 08; August 23, 2008 6:52 AM
Karen Anne said...: beryl -

Sniffle. That reminds me a lot of Howard Dean mixes. Howard may have lost, but his fifty state strategy was what Obama used to win the nomination and will help him win the election.; August 23, 2008 7:09 AM
Beryl said...: Yup. I was a Dean supporter also.; August 23, 2008 9:12 AM
Vicki in Seattle said...: Irony = I NEVER GOT MY TEXT MESSAGE!!!! maybe they system is jammed up, grumble grumble; August 23, 2008 9:37 AM
Dilbuck said...: Time for Biden to be the attack dog. This is where it will get messy. I have to say, I am glad Obama picked someone who will push back.; August 23, 2008 9:50 AM
Vicki in Seattle said...: he did seem to pick reasonably well, if he was looking for an attack dog.

still no text message.; August 23, 2008 9:53 AM
Karen Anne said...: Where I lived before the town had gotten a phone warning system for flooding and the like. By the time it ground thru tens of thousands of phone calls any danger had come and gone. I suspect the text message stuff is just overwhelming servers or whatever. Just think how many people signed up for this.

On the main page someone said he got his in Japan seven hours late.; August 23, 2008 10:27 AM
Vicki in Seattle said...: kinda suspected that the system would be overwhelmed by this. I guess they can only use so much bandwidth at once - have to leave some open for emergency messages, plus regular phone calls are starting to ramp up this morning, I imagine.; August 23, 2008 10:30 AM
Vicki in Seattle said...: but it does strike me as ironic, that I guessed right, but no text.

join me in a round of ironic giggling, please!; August 23, 2008 10:32 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Hey everyon

the pick for me was ok but Obama had better say something about Hillary and the fact that the media said that he totally shot her out. It will piss off a lot of Hillary supporters including me. That he totally disrespected her like that.Not the fact that he picked someone else.Kind of old though! AJ; August 23, 2008 10:35 AM
Vicki in Seattle said...: Agree, AJ, he should say something; but what can he say to soothe everyone's feelers? it seems like no matter what he says, someone's gonna still be torqued off. And the MSM is gonne give juice to those last disgruntled people.

I'm sincerely curious: how best to ameliorate the Clinton supporters who remain disgruntled? What could he possibly say? Please let me/us know.; August 23, 2008 10:42 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Vicki

to be honest I think he should stand with Hillary and say that she didn't need to be vetted because she had already been vetted. Plus the fact that she didn't want it. Also I think Hillary should praise his choice to be a wise one for the demo. party.That she backs him all the way. AJ; August 23, 2008 10:46 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Vicki
more or less that.I don't think it would be asking to much of Obama. To appease Hillary supporters.Will he appease everyone no but I think it will most of them. All they really want is [besides her to be president] is to be shown respect. AJ; August 23, 2008 10:50 AM
Vicki in Seattle said...: AJ, I suspect that others read this thread, and that they listen to and heard your words just now.

I also suspect that today (and the coming week), will be one very long, public display of party unity, and that Hillary will be very much a part of it.

Obama is a smart man; Hillary is a smart woman. Among other things, we need all the Democratic senators in the senate right now, otherwise I'd think that perhaps she was going to be part of his cabinet. She would be wonderful in HEW, for example.

but first things first; Obama needs to get elected!!; August 23, 2008 10:51 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Vicki

if I had one wish this is what it would be.

That Obama/Biden would win and do a great job then when the 8 years was over that he would back Hillary for president and that she would get it and do a great job also! Then maybe this country would be in GREAT!!!!!! shape. Is that asking for to much? AJ; August 23, 2008 11:00 AM
Vicki in Seattle said...: AJ, that is a wonderful vision (8 yrs of Obama followed by 8 years of Clinton); and one that I can get behind.

like I said, I think people (not just us) read this blog/ thread/ whatever, and that we can expect that your thoughts have been heard within the Obama campaign.; August 23, 2008 11:24 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Vicki

thanks AJ

well I'm off to a birthday party don't relly feel like going but really can't get out of it without hurt feelings.; August 23, 2008 11:31 AM
magia said...: stop: you are an idiot (lest anyone think I am in any way aligned with that "camp")

Vicky and Aunt Jean: nice try, but don't hold your breath. The 3 AM call (text) is another obvious dig at HRC, and not missed by her supporters.

Biden called it a while back, re Obama's lack of credentials to be Pres. So you can hate the republicans for using Biden's words against Obama, but who wouldn't? Be real.

So I'm sorry, you will be terribly disappointed in November, but the warnings have been in place for weeks. Biden is a wonderful guy, a great candidate (and you newbies don't even get that), but he cannot save this for Obama; only Hillary could have done that.

My prediction is that this (cutting HRC out) is Obama's fatal mistake in judgment, that great judgment he touts.; August 23, 2008 11:54 AM
magia said...: hey, did I see a comment from stop that is now gone?
new rules?; August 23, 2008 12:18 PM
Richard said...: Yeah, Magia. New rule is ignore trolls and report to Matt/Oreo. They've undertaken to clean up this thread.; August 23, 2008 12:43 PM
Richard said...: I must have been really tired this morning not to catch the 3 a.m. phone call jab. That and the fact that my email was sent at 4:47 a.m. I'm not sure, the 3 a.m. decision seems almost too clever. I know a final dig at Clinton might be tempting, but wise?

I agree that Obama needs to reference HRC in his speech. I think he should definitely clarify that the lack of "formal vetting" did not mean she wasn't considered, that HRC was vetted by the American people over 12 months of a grueling campaign.; August 23, 2008 12:54 PM
Beryl said...: AJ and Jean - you are spot on.

Vetting HRC would have been like making Julia Roberts audition for a roll. Also, the Clintons were not going to provide the financial records required from other folks who were vetted.

By design, the Convention will be all about the Clintons. The Roll Call (suggested by Obama) and the multiple speeches by both Clintons gives them the appropriate respect.

It is all good. Biden will go after McLame with vengeance. Get some popcorn, folks.

"magia" - you are wrong. I'll assume **for now** you are not a troll but your comments are much like Stop's.

1. The 3 AM thing wasn't a dig and thinking HRC supporters know that. The unthinking ones were never going to vote for Obama.

2. Primary negativities are always exploited. Romney said equally bad things about McCain. (Let's see those ads!) Moreover, Biden NEVER directly said that McCain was ready for presidency and Obama was not -- that was a HRC gaff. That is why the Repugs had to put together multiple Biden comments to attempt to make a case.

Once again, Obama showed perfect JUDGMENT with this selection. Biden has more elected political experience than HRC and Obama put together. It shows that Obama doesn't want a "yes man/woman". He wants someone who can provide him wise advice which he will factor in his decision-making.

Obama/Biden 08 Obama/Biden 08 Obama/Biden 08 Obama/Biden 08 Obama/Biden 08 Obama/Biden 08; August 23, 2008 12:55 PM
Karen Anne said...: Uh, magia is Stop, right?

Anyway, AJ, I wouldn't put any credence in anonymous sources claiming Clinton hadn't been vetted. People who hide behind anonymity are worth zero, as far as I'm concerned, as sources. Plenty of people out there who'd like to stir up trouble.

I'm sure any number of people claiming to be Hillary supporters going for McCain are actually Republican trolls. No true Democrat is going to vote for endless war, trashing working people, etc.

Howard Dean was 100 times the candidate Kerry was, but when Howard lost, I sucked it up and voted for Kerry.

Plus, Obama has put Hillary front and center at the convention, and even Bill, who has yet to say anything believably decent about Obama.; August 23, 2008 12:56 PM
Beryl said...: "Vetting HRC would have been like making Julia Roberts audition for a role."

Had the roll call on my mind. :); August 23, 2008 12:58 PM
Karen Anne said...: Rich,

I thought the Secret Service leaked the pick and then the 3 am notice followed because of that, probably sooner than Obama had planned it.

I've been mildly worried about the Secret Service anyway, the credible allegations of racial bias towards Black agents, derogatory remarks towards Blacks. Now they seem to have been playing politics.

I would assume Obama would do some wholesale replacement once he is in office. Otherwise, I don't see how he could feel safe.; August 23, 2008 1:02 PM
Richard said...: I don't know if anyone has posted it before, but this video is amazing!; August 23, 2008 1:09 PM
magia said...: No, I'm not stop, or yamaha (or whoever that was), butI do find it amusing that you need to equate anyone who disagrees with you with trolls. I disagree with you that Obama will win in November, yikes is there no room for disagreement in your world? Balance is a good thing.

I'm just a middle-aged hippie girl who has been politically involved all my life, left of center, who doesn't buy into the Obama hype, doesn't live in a bubble, and really doesn't understand the flipping of the democratic party into a republican mold. (No dissent, no criticism, sticking to talking points ad nauseam.)

I mean I do see that some people have decided that if you can't beat them, join them, but it ain't me, babe. I just wonder who will be the "hammer" - their very own version of DeLay.

I find it sad, and I do not think it will ultimately benefit the country.

I agree that there was nothing in the "not even vetted" talk, as beryl aptly points out, and I personally adore Biden, he was my pick for Pres (even though he's a bit hawk-ish, he is very smart and VERY hard-working.) But I stand ready to be proved wrong: this is not enough to get Obama over in November.

We'll see.

In the meantime, some of you just need a few life lessons to learn how to get through life on an even keel -- it's not by surrounding yourself only with those who are just like you!; August 23, 2008 1:25 PM
magia said...: Beryl said... Primary negativities are always exploited. Romney said equally bad things about McCain. (Let's see those ads!)

Of course we will, as soon as Romney is announced. That's my point, and if I am wrong (and we don't use Romney's sound bites), I will admit it.; August 23, 2008 1:29 PM
Independent Voter said...: Magia, you are clearly not too in tune with those on this thread then. We have MANY Clinton supporters here who have come around to support Obama.

My question to you then is why do you think he is going to lose since he didn't pick Hillary? As Beryl, along with many others, including Hillary, she has been vetted! According to Hillary, she has been vetted for over 20 years. We all know that Bill wouldn't release his library donor list, which would be required under an Obama administration. What other vetting could she possibly go through?

The whole 3am thing, was coincidental, he wanted to send the text messages out at 7am but the SS spoiled the surprise last night when they announce that they were dispatched to Biden's home.; August 23, 2008 1:35 PM
apissedant said...: Dave,
I'm right about so few things... so it is important to point out when I am right. I said there was absolutely no way he could choose one of the major candidates on Saturday, and still be the first one to tell his supporters.

I was right.

That wasn't the brightest choice. He should have realized that the secret service and the media were not going to be able to keep the secret that long.

Not a big deal, but last night MSNBC basically went through all the talking points that we talked about right here.

He said he would tell his supporters first, and he didn't.
Biden hit Obama on the experience issue earlier in the election.
Biden plagiarized many years ago.
Biden made the stupid articulate and clean comment.

It is kinda funny that the media is all over Obama for not telling his supporters first, when it is the media's fault he couldn't. He should have realized that occurred, but still.
We'll here some negatives for a little while, but in the end the choice will give us a few extra points in the polls.
Biden is smart, articulate, vicious, experienced, and has a great sense of humor. He will most definitely win the VP debate, and his voice will give the McCain campaign a lot of trouble over the next few months.; August 23, 2008 1:58 PM
Karen Anne said...: Jill Biden has a nice face =
http://www.flickr.com/photos/joebiden/375043431/

She and Michelle Obama both look like the kind of women I'd immediately like to be friends with.

Cindy McCain lives on some other planet from me.

So is this the have a beer with philosophy?; August 23, 2008 2:06 PM
magia said...: Independent Voter said...
"We have MANY Clinton supporters here who have come around to support Obama."

Yes, even Aunt Jean, but what response do you give those who have NOT 'come around'? I think I'm in tune.

"My question to you then is why do you think he is going to lose since he didn't pick Hillary?"

Because I personally do not think Biden will bring many of those who are not energized by Obama, not even close to the demographics that HRC would bring. Believe me, I think Biden is terrific, it's not about that. And it's not entirely about the disaffected women who resent how this primary was conducted. It's about the fairly large segment of the population who do not believe Obama has the creds, but who would possibly -- only possibly -- pull that lever for him if HRC was on the ticket. Many of those people do not know Biden very well, and do not have the same respect and affection for him that I do.

I agree that Biden will be a great voice for Obama on the campaign trail, he should be the one debating McCain.

And you think 3 AM is a coincidence??? If you choose to believe they had different intention, so be it. I'm not that naive. There it is; I have a VERY different opinion of the character of Obama and his people than you.; August 23, 2008 2:07 PM
jean said...: There is no doubt that magia is not a troll and to move forward and WIN we need to hear from all sides.
In reference to the 3am phone call there is no doubt the Obama campaign and HRC camp have a plan and we will see it in the convention.
There is always a winner and a loser and HRC lost.
Do I think HRC would be a better president, the answer is yes but that is not the way it is.
Yes Beryl I am in the Hot Seat right now LOL.
There is a higher goal of getting the Repubs out.
The differences between the camps of Obama and HRC will not go away but a compromise needs to happen.
I think the convention will be quite an eye opener and I believe in the positive sense.
Gotta go shopping for school supplies, daughter has a last minute list(lovely).
jean; August 23, 2008 2:26 PM
Beryl said...: "Biden is smart, articulate, vicious, experienced, and has a great sense of humor."

You forgot "clean". Tee hee

I love that Obama quickly defused that dumb comment,

"I didn't take Sen. Biden's comments personally, but obviously they were historically inaccurate."

That tells me a lot. I also admire Obama on how he always keeps his cool even when people say crappy things about him. His temperament is perfect for a President at this time.

People don't realize that Obama is young (older than Bill was in '92) but he is wise beyond his years. Caroline and others are right -- he is a lot like JFK.

When he went to Iraq and spoke to Gen Petraeus, he listened to the General showing that he will respect differing perspectives. He then restated his position with insignificant modifications. I truly believe this is how he will approach his relationship with Biden. Biden will speak out and disagree with Obama and Obama will consider his opinions in his decision-making.

It is going to be a wonderful relationship to study for years to come.

Yep, apis, I agree that this selection will result in a bump in the polls. A lot of it will be due to the Dem's reaction to the pick. I hope this will be even more than that. I hope it shores up the win and is the start of a working administration.; August 23, 2008 2:26 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: magia-

The text message was not supposed to go out at 3am - they were supposed to have been sent out at 7am.

CNN broke the story around midnight so the Obama campaign had to start sending out the messages.

Actually some of the messages went out before 3am - it is not like they hit the send button right at 3am.; August 23, 2008 2:31 PM
jean said...: Indy,
There is no way the 3am call is coincidence.
There is a plan,I think,that will possibly unite at the convention.

I can see HRC saying "Did you get the 3am phone call?????
I did and we are here."
Corny but if done properly it really could work.
Obama's campaign is very good and they do not deal with a maybe.
jean; August 23, 2008 2:32 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Beryl - thanks for posting the link! It is great!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPev5sEdTjg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPev5sEdTjg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPev5sEdTjg

Obama-Biden '08; August 23, 2008 2:32 PM
Beryl said...: Jean
Those with differing opinions are helpful to improving the Democratic position. However, Magia's comments have offered no constructive information. It is not magia has followed up his/her complaints with any remediation.

That said. I'll hold off before I officially deem magia **in my mind** a troll. Perhaps s/he is still preparing constructive remarks to post. Or, maybe s/he is looking for more information here so s/he can get behind the Democratic Party nominee.; August 23, 2008 2:39 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Rich -

Yes! That video is amazing!

Everyone should send the link to everyone you know!

It will probably be the new 'Yes We Can' anthem - and I betcha they play it at the convention!

AMERICAN PRAYER

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oVi4rUzf-0Q

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oVi4rUzf-0Q

Obama-Biden '08; August 23, 2008 2:43 PM
Richard said...: Magia - Nate over at fivethirtyeight.com has an excellent analysis which seems to suggest that Joe Biden can have nearly as much affect among Democrats as HRC and that he will have much greater effect among independents (HRC is actually very unpopular among independents) who are a disproportionally large share of undecideds. It's a good read.; August 23, 2008 2:44 PM
apissedant said...: I'm not allowed... can one of you ladies punch that McCain spokesman (on MSNBC) in the face?; August 23, 2008 2:46 PM
jean said...: ap,
It is the equal thing,
we go to jail also.
jean; August 23, 2008 2:47 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: August 23, 2008

Clinton praises Biden pick

Posted: 08:52 AM ET

(CNN) – Hillary Clinton on Saturday praised Barack Obama's choice of Joe Biden as his VP.

"In naming my colleague and friend Senator Joe Biden to be the Vice Presidential nominee, Senator Obama has continued in the best traditions for the Vice Presidency by selecting an exceptionally strong, experienced leader and devoted public servant. Senator Biden will be a purposeful and dynamic Vice President who will help Senator Obama both win the Presidency and govern this great country," she said in an issued statement.

------; August 23, 2008 2:49 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: If you are not near a TV...

www.cnn.com has a live stream up now of the Springfield, Illinois Obama-Biden rally

---; August 23, 2008 2:51 PM
Beryl said...: Yes, Rich/Leah - I love the American Prayer video. It left tears in my eyes. I agree with a Digger who said that we need a counttry/western version as well. It has a point that needs more diverse appeal.

I like one point of the Obama/Biden video. We don't need a SINGLE leader. We need multiple leaders and that includes you and me. The beauty of the Obama candidacy is that he is energizing people to make change possible. Per Lincoln, the government is not just for the people. It is of the people and by the people. ("Yes, We Can"); August 23, 2008 2:56 PM
Beryl said...: "I'm not allowed... can one of you ladies punch that McCain spokesman (on MSNBC) in the face?"

I couldn't stand it -- switched to CNN.; August 23, 2008 2:57 PM
jean said...: Put off the shopping for an hour or so.

magia,
To say it was a clear dig to HRC for the 3am call would be stupid for Obama and as you know they are not stupid. His campaign is well run.
Sorry, just went through some posts.
I really feel your posts are important because going around with one's eyes closed is stupid.
Your view is important for things to go forward for the Dem Party.
jean; August 23, 2008 3:09 PM
Beryl said...: Michelle O. and Jill B. do look nice together. Kind of reminds me of Tipper and Hillary 16 years ago. Both ladies are very smart.; August 23, 2008 3:09 PM
magia said...: Beryl said...
"Those with differing opinions are helpful to improving the Democratic position. However, Magia's comments have offered no constructive information. It is not magia has followed up his/her complaints with any remediation.

That said. I'll hold off before I officially deem magia **in my mind** a troll. Perhaps s/he is still preparing constructive remarks to post. Or, maybe s/he is looking for more information here so s/he can get behind the Democratic Party nominee."

Naahhh . . . my work is done here; you acknowledge that having differing opinions is helpful.

Joke.

I'm not sure what complaint(s) I have expressed, but I'm sure I have a few. I do NOT believe I will find any new information here, unless it is with regard to alternative energy and such. And I do not think I have anything to offer you, in your wisdom.

(Except that I did say I was a female, but possibly that is a ruse, part of my trolldom.)

Rather amusing, but possibly you should instruct Oreo to delete all postings that have nothing constructive to offer.

Why do I feel like I'm in a little piece of "The Prisoner" and I might be Number 6.; August 23, 2008 3:10 PM
magia said...: rich: thanks, I'll check that out. Nate might be right, and I might be wrong; we will see.

jean: I do not expect Obama's campaign to ADMIT it (3AM), but I do believe it was a plan. If someone (BO & HRC, as suggested) is able to make it into something positive, good for them!; August 23, 2008 3:17 PM
Beryl said...: Magia,
I am a woman too. I think women uniquely tend to make lemonade out of lemons. You've called out lemons -- in your opinion -- where is the lemonade?

Obama is the presumptive nominee and it will be official in a few days. Biden is the selected VP. It is what it is. The alternative is McCain resulting in a worsen economy, WWIII, more American casualties, and continued anti-American sentiment abroad. If that is not what you want, suggest what should be done to ensure Obama/Biden wins. Otherwise, I can read nonconstructive comments on the Faux-News site.

But that is just my opinion.; August 23, 2008 3:25 PM
Richard said...: Leah - I can't stop watching that video, and I think the Obama campaign should start buying 5-minute blocks of advertising during prime time to play it.; August 23, 2008 3:27 PM
Independent Voter said...: Holy CHIT! Who let the dogs out? Woof! Obama let the dogs out! Go get 'em JOE!; August 23, 2008 3:33 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: The Obama Biden speeches were great! Except for the two GAFFES! Obama introduced Biden as the 'next Presiden.. vice-president' and Biden called Obama - Barack Amara or something like that! LOL!

I am guessing that they are both very tired.

All in all they both did a wonderful job :)

Obama and Biden both really laid into Bush and McCain.

I loved the line when Biden referred to John McCain's SEVEN KITCHEN TABLES :)

Obama-Biden '08; August 23, 2008 4:06 PM
Richard said...: Who does this guy think is going to buy these? Certainly not Obama, who's already got an established web presence...; August 23, 2008 4:07 PM
apissedant said...: Dave,
LOL, you're crazy.

Everyone else...
That was a beautiful video. =)

This will be an extreme positive by the end of next week. There was going to be a slue of attacks regardless of who the VP was, or how the text message went, or anything else that might possibly happened. If Obama literally walked on water, McCain would find some way to call that a negative.

This wasn't done great, but it was done well. Obama has clearly shown a difference in message, great personal judgment, and rational reasoned thought. The negatives won't stick.

People know Biden, people like Biden. This will go well.; August 23, 2008 4:10 PM
apissedant said...: Favorite Joe Biden moment:

http://www.thedailyshow.com/video/index.jhtml?videoId=127038&title=Sen.-Joe-Biden; August 23, 2008 4:10 PM
apissedant said...: How many "trollops" does John McCain have working for him?; August 23, 2008 4:19 PM
Beryl said...: The Obama camp will probably purchase it. If they don't McCain's 527s will and post lies.; August 23, 2008 4:22 PM
apissedant said...: beryl,
It doesn't matter, because the person doesn't own ALL the combination. This would still allow Republicans to buy combination like obamabiden.com.

They would spend a not so small fortune buying every combination. I don't see it happening.

And honestly, which is more likely for someone to type in, ObamaBiden.com, or ObamaBiden.org?; August 23, 2008 4:28 PM
apissedant said...: Wasn't Hillary Clinton a much harsher critic of Barack Obama than Joe Biden was? Has the McCain campaign confused Hillary and Joe?; August 23, 2008 4:44 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Everyone will be going to www.BarackObama.com - that is what is on the signs, emails, etc. So I think the Obama-Biden websites are not going to be an issue.

Btw, the www.JoeBiden.com website now redirects to Obama's website.

Obama-Biden '08; August 23, 2008 4:46 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Oh and I wanted to say...

For the people that say that Obama did not tell his supporters via text messages before telling anyone else - you are wrong.

Even though the media was guessing it was Biden. OBAMA told his supporters via text and email FIRST before HE told everyone at the rally today. Obama did not tell the media or reporters anything at all.

So, in my opinion, Obama's OFFICIAL announcement went to the supporters before anyone else other than Biden.; August 23, 2008 4:49 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: I will never get the image of Hillary standing on stage with her arm waving in the air saying "Shame on you Barack Obama" out of my head!

LOL!

CNN already has a ticker article about Hillary folks that are upset. The more that the media keeps up the anti-Obama Hillary stories the more it will going to be hurtful to the Democratic Party - and the more it is going to help the republicans!

Now can we all move on into the future, stop with all the Hillary stuff, and get behind our nominee - Barack Obama - and his VP Joe Biden.

Obama-Biden '08; August 23, 2008 4:55 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Ladies and gentlemen,
The next President of the United States, the next First Lady, the next Vice-President and Mrs.VP...

http://trailblazersblog.dallasnews.com/Obama-Biden%20foursome%208-23-08.jpg

.; August 23, 2008 5:18 PM
apissedant said...: Leah,
I have to disagree with you. I signed up for the email and the text, and I definitely received both well after he had posted it on his website. I guarantee the media has people constantly monitoring the major websites, where as most people, including his supporters, do not camp out at his website. End result, media got the news first.

It isn't a huge deal, but that still is the simple fact. Also, though his CAMPAIGN didn't give the message, the plane and the secret service were more than enough evidence. All of the media had officially reported that Biden was the VP well before the 3 AM post.
These were media organizations that do not publish unsubstantiated rumors, they had to have multiple sources in order to publish it.; August 23, 2008 5:22 PM
Mike in Maryland said...: All those who have been here since at least February should remember a previous visits by Magia. Sowing dissent and discord, and never a constructive argument.

It is my opinion that Magia is what is classified a 'concern troll'. If you don't know what it means, look it up.

Here's a hint - 'I am a Democrat, but here's what concerns me . . .' without giving a single way to overcome the concern.

Lots of words, but few facts to back up the verbiage.

Mike; August 23, 2008 5:26 PM
Mike in Maryland said...: AP,

It was well after 3:30 AM this morning that MSNBC stated "We now have independently confirmed [with unnamed sources] that Biden will be Obama's VP pick, and we will now stop quoting the AP {Associated Press] report."

Everyone originally was quoting AP until they 'confirmed' it on their own. What's so funny about the MSNBC report is that the Obama campaign had it on their website several minutes prior to MSNBC's 'independently confirming' the report.

Mike; August 23, 2008 5:31 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: apissedant-

And on Obama's website there was a blog there with the announcement FOR HIS SUPPORTERS.

So, either way - text, email, or website announcement HE did tell his supporters before he talked to the press, etc.

Everything did not go perfect but he tired really hard to have it go off without a hitch.

Obama-Biden '08; August 23, 2008 5:31 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: I understand that everyone was watching their phones for a message ... but I think that is a very small issue compared to the Iraq war, the energy crisis, and the economy.

I am sure that our troops overseas are more concerned about coming home than what time the text messages were sent out.

Perhaps we all need to keep things in perspective.

Obama-Biden '08; August 23, 2008 5:35 PM
Mike in Maryland said...: My concern about the Secret Service letting the word out is that they do NOT do that type of thing with the President, Vice President, or other people they are protecting.

I would not be at all surprised if President Obama calls the head of the Secret Service into the Oval office on January 21 or 22, and tells him that either the Secret Service finds out who disclosed the information, or asks for the resignation of all people who would have been in position to do that.

Security of the President, Vice President, and all others the Secret Service is tasked to protect is not possible unless rules are abided by Disclosure of details connected to protecting the people in their charge goes 180 degrees against their job of providing that security.

Mike; August 23, 2008 5:39 PM
Karen Anne said...: All this obsessing about an announcement when the Obama campaign obviously did the right thing (and "These were media organizations that do not publish unsubstantiated rumors" please - I think Richard Jewell and Steven Hatfill would not agree with you) is (sorry) nuts.

We're the party of issues not trivia like flag pins.; August 23, 2008 5:40 PM
Karen Anne said...: Mike in M,

That plus the bias stuff is why I think the Secret Service needs to be looked at very carefully and people replaced. I do not trust them.

Does anyone seriously think they'd risk their lives to protect Obama at the same time they're using the n-word?; August 23, 2008 5:43 PM
apissedant said...: Mike and Leah,
An Obama staffer said this afternoon on MSNBC that he "learned Biden was the choice the same way as everyone else, from MSNBC." MSNBC immediately criticized him at 3:30 last night for not informing his supporters first, like he had promised.
On one of the rare occasions where my predictions were correct, I stated that if he waited until Saturday, the news would tell us before his text message would. The Washington Post argues that word had leaked out to reporters prior to the official announcement.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/08/23/AR2008082300455.html?hpid=topnews

It IS a small issue, and there are much more important issues that we should focus on, but it still didn't go according to plan.

Obama is still our candidate, and he is still the best candidate. Biden is still a terrific choice for VP. There is no need to distort the truth and pretend that neither has ever been wrong or that a mistake was never made by the campaign. We all make mistakes, what makes us adults is the ability to admit them, as well as recognize them in those we admire.

I remember another poster saying something eerily similar not too long ago.; August 23, 2008 5:47 PM
apissedant said...: I'm not saying it is a major issue, in fact I have said the opposite several times. That doesn't mean I deny that it occurred. That is nuts. ALL the organizations reported it. These are the same organizations that refused to publish the Edwards rumors until confirmation came in.

As to the Secret Service... do some google searches and you'll find that they also have a problem with rampant racism at the moment.; August 23, 2008 5:49 PM
apissedant said...: http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080823/NEWS0502/808230465

This posted before 3 am last night.; August 23, 2008 5:53 PM
apissedant said...: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPeU9l841EM

Secret Service noose incident.; August 23, 2008 5:54 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: I heard on the news this morning that the Secret Service was never dispatched to Delaware and that Biden didn't get any SS protection until he got in Springfield at the rally.

So, maybe the SS story was just a rumor last night.; August 23, 2008 6:00 PM
apissedant said...: It was a rope, tied in a loop, hanging from the ceiling... but that doesn't mean it was a noose or that there was any racial intent in hanging the looped rope from the ceiling inside the building... as the first black man ever emerged from the pack as the Democratic Presidential candidate, and 15 black former and active secret service agents were in the midst of suing for discrimination.

HUH!?!??!

They have not offered any other rational reason why the "rope tied in a loop" had been left hanging in the building.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/noose

Dictionary.com defines a noose as a rope tied in a loop with a slip knot. They didn't say a slip knot was used, but they didn't deny that a slip knot was used either. COVER UP.; August 23, 2008 6:02 PM
Joshua said...: Leah Texas4Obama
Thank you very much for this post. Finally, someone understands the difference between the media guessing and having it substantiated by the Secret Service, and Obama announcing. Thank you very much.; August 23, 2008 6:05 PM
Mike in Maryland said...: AP,

MANY were predicting Biden for more than a week.

The key word is "predicting". Predictions are not facts.

As an example, in 1973, I predicted that Secretariat would win the Kentucky Derby, and so did at least half of those at Churchill Downs that day, as the payoff was $2.20 for the win and $2.10 for place. However, Secretariat's win was not fact until he crossed the finish line in first place.

The news organizations changed their reporting when the Secret Service disclosed they had dispatched agents to Wilmington, Delaware to protect Biden. The reporting went to 'the speculation is', or 'inside sources are stating' or similar, to "The Secret Service has announced . . .". There is a substantive difference between 'it is our prediction', or 'people are speculating', or 'confidential sources are stating'.

On another note, was it the FAA, Secret Service, or some other source for the report of the charter jet flying from Chicago to Wilmington?

Also, the Secret Service could have easily put agents on the plane before it departed Chicago (how many are detailed in Chicago right now at Obama campaign HQ?), or sent agents from DC to Wilmington with no notice to the press. After all, Wilmington is just over 100 miles from DC, a two hour drive up I-95.

Mike; August 23, 2008 6:13 PM
apissedant said...: The link I reported did not mention speculation, guessing, or predicting. It said they had independently confirmed it through sources that desired to remain anonymous. It was posted before the official text message.

Obama's own campaign staff admit that the news informed them. It seems like a pointless argument. The facts are the facts. They did not report speculation or predictions.

Again, here is the Washington Post article, one of many available at every credible news organization in the country:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/08/23/AR2008082300455.html?hpid=topnews

"-- Barack Obama's campaign had said it would announce Obama's choice for a running mate in a text message to supporters. But early Saturday morning, word leaked out to reporters that he'd chosen Sen. Joe Biden, a veteran lawmaker from Delaware."

That is not speculation or guessing.; August 23, 2008 6:19 PM
Joshua said...: As recently as this week I heard Hillary speak. She was in a rally trying to convince her supporters to support Obama. She said: “No one has worked harder than I have in this short period of time to help my opponent.”

Yes, folks. Hillary still refers to Obama not by name but as “my opponent.” Someone please tell the woman that Obama is not her opponent, but the Democratic nominee for president. She is not in any competition with Obama. You will not hear any of the former republican contenders refer to John McCain today as “my opponent.” This air of entitlement that surrounds Hillary and her supporters is driving me crazy.

HILLARY IS NOT DUE ANY RESPECT THAT SHE HAS NOT EARNED. If you have to ask for respect, you have not earned any.

This convention is about electing Obama the next president. It is not about nursing any hurt feeling some people may have who think that the presidency belongs to them.; August 23, 2008 6:20 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: ap-

The IndyStar link you posted says...

"The Associated Press has learned."
------------

The AP was going by the CNN report when John King said that two unnamed democratic sources told him...

THAT WAS NOT AN OFFICIAL ANNOUNCEMENT FROM THE OBAMA CAMP! It was not OFFICIAL until it was posted on the Obama website and the messages were sent out.

Now can we move on :); August 23, 2008 6:24 PM
jean said...: The election is about electing Obama to be the next president.
No question.
To do this takes the entire Democratic Party and more.
jean; August 23, 2008 6:26 PM
apissedant said...: I didn't say anything about OFFICIAL.

Obama isn't OFFICIALLY the Democratic nominee until Thursday, but that doesn't mean he isn't the Democratic nominee.

USA Today reported:

Hundreds of thousands of Barack Obama supporters will get to be the first to know the candidate's running-mate choice via text messages and e-mails.

The promise was that they would know first, not that they would OFFICIALLY BE INFORMED FIRST.

You're trying to split hairs, the fact is what was promised and what was given were two different things. It isn't a big deal, but it is still true. My candidate is the best candidate, there is no reason for me to lie for him in order to make him appear even better than he actually is.; August 23, 2008 6:38 PM
Beryl said...: "It is my opinion that Magia is what is classified a 'concern troll'. If you don't know what it means, look it up.

Here's a hint - 'I am a Democrat, but here's what concerns me . . .' without giving a single way to overcome the concern."

Mike in Maryland - you are on point based on what I've read about this type of troll. Since I only joined this group a few months ago, I've not read any posts from her until today.

I thought about some of the people who work for me on my job. We have those who make a living out of complaining and those who do not offer complaints without solutions. The former group is usually managed out of the business (fired) or they find another job in the company -- away from me.

She does fit this description and may simply have no constructive criticism skill since she has yet to offer up any solutions. It sounds like she is going away (for a while) so it doesn't matter.; August 23, 2008 6:44 PM
Vicki in Seattle said...: not that it matters, and I don't want to be a whiney baby, but I never did get a text message.

but I'm totally ready to more on.

Magia, since you want to be the wise one, tell us how to help Obama win. because I'm an old firebrand hippy chick, too.; August 23, 2008 6:48 PM
Unknown said...: Congratulations to Joe Biden for being selected as a VP nominee. He is a quality politican.

Unfortunately, Biden will never get to be VP since Obama is unelectable and will lose.

Congratulations to Obama, he just selected his babysitter proving to the world he does not have the experience or judgment to be President.

No matter, I am still voting for John McCain in 2008 and Hillary Clinton in 2012.

RealClearPolitics has McCain up 274-264 in the electoral college based on recent state polls.; August 23, 2008 6:51 PM
Vicki in Seattle said...: "move on" geeesh my typing skills continue to amaze. but then, I don't get paid to type.; August 23, 2008 6:53 PM
apissedant said...: lol vicki

The trolls always come out in droves on big Obama news days. =); August 23, 2008 6:57 PM
Vicki in Seattle said...: apparently so. stop me before I go all snarky.

nice weather here, tomorrow is supposed to be gray and rainy. husband was out mowing and ran into a nest of ground wasps; he is recovering in his comfy chair with benedryl, cortisone cream, and benzocaine cream. not as dramatic as me last year and the wasp sting within my left medial orbit (but not on the actual eyeball).

fun times in the summer!; August 23, 2008 7:15 PM
apissedant said...: vicki,
OOOHHH
That doesn't sound fun.
I accidentally rested on an ant hill that was apparently occupied by fire ants once. Luckily I was only like 8, and I barely remember it. I'm sure he'll feel better by Monday, and probably barely remember it in 10 years. hehehe...; August 23, 2008 7:47 PM
Mike in Maryland said...: Vicki,

I can relate to bee stings. When I was 15, I got stung by a bumblebee on the back of my hand. Prior to this, I didn't react strongly to bee stings - nothing that baking soda couldn't handle.

That day, within an hour, I had swelling to the wrist and redness to the elbow. By the time a doctor say the sting (two hours after the fact), I had swelling to the elbow, and redness to the shoulder and into the neck. After several shots administered in the hospital's Emergency Room, I was kept under observation for several more hours until the redness started to recede. Even then, my hand was so swollen that it was two weeks until I could touch the tip of my little finger with the tip of my thumb.

Since that time, I've only been stung a few times, but only by sweat bees. Prior to that incident, a sweat bee sting would raise a welt about the diameter of a pencil eraser. After that incident the welts were more like the diameter of a quarter - a dramatic difference in reaction.

For many people, bee stings can be deadly if not taken care of promptly. Be sure to keep careful attention to any reaction that doesn't 'seem normal.'

Mike; August 23, 2008 8:06 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: VP Joe Biden: Watch Video Highlights

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/08/23/vp-joe-biden-watch-video_n_120775.html

*s; August 23, 2008 8:19 PM
Beryl said...: On Hardball, they revealed that Biden's net worth is only $100-150K! Now that's middle class, folks. Actually, he is struggling to stay middle class. That tells me that Biden is neither taking pact money nor involved in shady financial deals.

Maybe Biden needs to write a book. The Obama's are barely millionaires because of his 2 best sellers. They just paid off their student loans and bought that house. They still have way less than $5 million so according to McCain, he is also middle class. (Obama knows better though.)

I love this match. They are both "clean, articulate" and have middle class values. (One spouse, one house); August 23, 2008 8:24 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Mike get a life the fact that Hillary was first lady she is due respect. Also the fact that it was a very close race .She doesn't have to ask she gets it because of who she is. AJ; August 23, 2008 8:30 PM
Mike in Maryland said...: Aunt Jean,

Just so you remember, the person who is identified as "Mike" is the apparently failed gyn from Seattle, and not me.

I say 'apparently failed' since, by his own admission he is no longer practicing, but has never given a reason why he no longer practices. Since he's been asked multiple times over a several month period to give some explanation, but failed to give one, it is not unreasonable to presume he's a failed gyn doctor.

In other words, the person who identifies himself as "Mike", and who comes on here sporadically should be thought of, and treated as, a troll until proven different.

Mike; August 23, 2008 9:01 PM
Aunt Jean said...: To all

I just read that they thought Biden would be able to unite Hillary supporters more than she can. That is funny considering they voted for her and not him.

I've looked up some of the things Biden has voted on. He's very conservative to me. From what I have read on him I think Obama could have done better. Just my oppinion.Plus someone alittle younger. AJ; August 23, 2008 9:05 PM
Vicki in Seattle said...: Mike IN MD: I don't think "mike" lives in Seattle, or at least I hope not!

also, husband is recovering just fine, and the swelling in his hand and legs, are all receding.

he's sleepy, but pulse/RR are normal, and I put it down to the benedryl. I'm gonna feed him here shortly. I think he is good. He gets sleepy from the benedryl when he takes it for hay fever, too. No worries.

I guess it will be an early night here tonight.

anyone else planning to go to a party on Th night? :-); August 23, 2008 9:13 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: AJ -

According to this Biden does have a better chance of bringing in the 'working class' and 'independents' and even 'some republicans' and Biden will make less Obama folks unhappy. So, in the long run it looks like Biden was a good choice.

http://blogs.tnr.com/tnr/blogs/the_plank/archive/2008/08/23/can-biden-out-hillary-hillary.aspx

---
This doesn't have anything to do with the Hillary folks that are upset like dwindling female PUMAs, etc. It has to do with the other demographics I mentioned above.; August 23, 2008 9:20 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Leah

I just disagree with you. He couldn't even draw that many people to vote for him. So how could he get them now doesn't make sense to me. AJ; August 23, 2008 9:27 PM
Emit R Detsaw said...: Ok, I haven't been on here much over the past few weeks, but I have to say I am disappointed in the conversation that has been going on today. All the chatter about when the message came out (7am is 3am somewhere in the world and vise versa), whether Clinton's supporters can got over it, etc......

Bottom line is, Obama has a GREAT VP to run with him. Congrats Joe!!!

Lot of folk's may think this election is about the economy, or foreign policies (including the wars), but it is much bigger than that for many reasons. Here is one that should have every woman rallying around Obama/Biden. The McCain platform is PROLIFE. If he is elected he will probably be adding a couple Supreme Court judges, and they will be Pro Lifers.

Women will have no Choice if the Womanizer McCain is elected. If nothing else, Clinton's women supporters should be able to rally around that.

To end on a positive note, once again, Biden is a great choice for VP. I would trust his vote as the President of the Senate (see Obama didn't slip - President of the Senate is one of the VPs duties) to resolve any tie.

Now back to the positive discussions. ;o); August 23, 2008 9:50 PM
Beryl said...: In this go around, Biden dropped out after Iowa. He was up against 3 people who were more popular for many other reasons: Edward, Obama, & HRC.

"According to this Biden does have a better chance of bringing in the 'working class' and 'independents' and even 'some republicans' and Biden will make less Obama folks unhappy. So, in the long run it looks like Biden was a good choice.

I especially agree with the embolden words here in Colorado. If HRC was selected, you could forget about Colorado and similar states turning blue. Republicans would have been energized to defeat the ticket. Right now, many Repugs & Indys are going Dem for Obama.

"Working class" (read that "working class whites")? I don't know about that demographic but Obama has working class blacks and Hispanics already.

I'm listening to a HRC supporters today on MSNBC and they appear to pretty happy with the Biden selection. Let's see how the polls look in another week.; August 23, 2008 9:53 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Emit -

Good point.

Here in Texas (the same time zone as the Obama Chicago headquarters) it was before 2am. And in California it was 12am. The news reported it as 3am because they are on the east coast.

All of America doesn't live on the east coast :); August 23, 2008 9:57 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Beryl

I still disagree with you. AJ; August 23, 2008 9:59 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: AJ-

We can respectfully disagree, that is okay, but I hope you read the article via the link I posted for you.; August 23, 2008 10:04 PM
Beryl said...: I live in MT and always assume ET when I communicate with others.

ET is the default for most American businesses unless the HQ is in another time zone. Washington DC is the HQ for our government, so I always assumed 3 AM would be ET.; August 23, 2008 10:14 PM
apissedant said...: Aunt Jean,
Remember that the VP has very rarely ever been that big of a draw. They can get some leaners that were sitting on the fence, but the fact is, people are voting for the number one spot.

A VP pick is more likely to alienate voters by showing the poor judgment of the main candidate than they are to draw in voters due to their own credentials.

Biden is a VERY VERY safe choice. Biden has very good appeal, and a lot of experience. He has a working class background, isn't rich, and just relates well to people. I posted this link earlier, you should really watch it.

http://www.thedailyshow.com/video/index.jhtml?videoId=127038&title=Sen.-Joe-Biden

Biden can turn in a negative into a positive like no candidate I've ever seen. Watch him between 1 minute and 2 minutes on that clip.

Hillary on the other hand is a great draw. She gets a lot of people that really like her, unfortunately she also gets a lot of people that really don't like her. Only those on the fence would be drawn by HRC, but HRC could easily scare away a lot of others. I know it sounds stupid, but it is just how it works. She is too divisive.; August 23, 2008 10:14 PM
apissedant said...: Mike in Md,
I don't think registered sex offenders are allowed to practice gynecology. Just a theory.; August 23, 2008 10:15 PM
Mike in Maryland said...: Aunt Jean said...
He [Biden] couldn't even draw that many people to vote for him.

Since Senator Biden only participated in the Iowa CAUCUS (which Hillary backers always want to denigrate as 'undemocratic'), and then the New Hampshire primary before dropping out of the race, it only stands to reason that he didn't receive many votes.

It doesn't mean that he was not the second choice of many people. I'm sure many of the people who voted for HRC would have voted for Biden if HRC had not been on the ballot. Same with many of the people who voted for Obama.

For many who follow politics, it is not 1st choice or no choice. Those who follow politics recognize that many times 2nd choice is 99% as acceptable as 1st choice.

In some cases, a voter may vote for their 2nd choice rather than their 1st choice when deciding on who to support. Why? Due to other factors (such as electability).

Many times I've faced that decision. I'm probably more in line with Kucinich's policies, but I recognize that he would have zero chance of being elected President, so he's a non-starter with me when deciding who to support. That is not to say that I always only half-heartedly back the candidate who I eventually back, or wins the nomination. I have supported and voted for all Democratic Presidential candidates since I was first able to vote. I have supported all Democratic candidates from JFK forward, even though I was not eligible to vote until the 1972 election. Not all those candidates were my first choice - in fact, in the primaries I many times voted for a different candidate than the one who eventually was the nominee. In the general election, though, I looked at the Democratic nominee and the Repig nominee, and the choice on whom to support was extremely easy.

You need to look at who the candidates are, what policies they espouse, other factors that may apply, then decide which of the CURRENT candidates most closely match your viewpoint.

Once the nominee is apparent or chosen, you don't say you will support that candidate, but then spend time tearing that nominee apart, unless you want to be treated as a troll.

Mike; August 23, 2008 10:16 PM
Mike in Maryland said...: AP,

ROTFLMAO !!

Mike; August 23, 2008 10:21 PM
apissedant said...: Biden was my first choice, but I knew he couldn't win. Obama was actually my third choice. Now Obama is my first choice though. =)

I'm sure there were plenty of other people that liked Biden a lot and didn't vote for him because they felt he had no chance. It is rather typical.; August 23, 2008 10:22 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Watch CNN go crazy ...

http://www.236.com/news/2008/08/22/media_waiting_for_obama_vp_ano_8441.php

-----; August 23, 2008 10:22 PM
Mike in Maryland said...: apissedant said...
A VP pick is more likely to alienate voters by showing the poor judgment of the main candidate than they are to draw in voters due to their own credentials.

Good point. Since 1992, I've wondered how many voters decided NOT to support Ross Perot when Admiral Stockdale began the VP debates with his famous "Who am I? Why am I here?" comments. I'm sure it was a lot.

Mike; August 23, 2008 10:26 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Obama's headquarters and communications center is in Chicago which is in the Central time zone - one hour earlier than the east coast.

I've only heard 'one' reporter mention that on the TV so far.

.; August 23, 2008 10:27 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Now they are talking about the 3am issue on CNN !!!

But no one is mentioning time zones!!!; August 23, 2008 10:41 PM
Beryl said...: Mike in Maryland,
You successfully expressed what I failed to do. If Biden didn't have Edwards, HRC, and Obama in the running, he would have come out on top.

Frankly, if I had known more about Biden as a true middle class and moral guy, he would have been higher on my list.; August 23, 2008 10:43 PM
Hillary Clinton said...: Damn...now my only chance is to get McCain to pick me for his VP spot. I'm running out of chances!; August 23, 2008 10:47 PM
apissedant said...: MIKE in MD!

LOL!!

I'd forgotten about that funny historical moment. LEVITY; August 23, 2008 10:51 PM
apissedant said...: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5Jbmaq4YHA&feature=related

I love the internet.
I think that line would have worked great if he'd just gotten around to answering the question before putting the audience to sleep.; August 23, 2008 11:01 PM
apissedant said...: P.S.
Admiral Stockdale is the only VP candidate I have ever seen that could make Dane Quayle look good.; August 23, 2008 11:02 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Biden used 'my friends' twice in his speech today.

I hope someone in the campaign pointed that out to him and I hope he doesn't do that very much in the future ;)

It didn't sound as bad as when McCain says it though ;); August 23, 2008 11:06 PM
Aunt Jean said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; August 23, 2008 11:08 PM
Beryl said...: I noticed the "my friends" also and cringed. You are right in that he didn't sound creepy like McCain does.; August 23, 2008 11:08 PM
apissedant said...: Leah,
Nothing sounds as bad when it isn't coming out of McCain's mouth... or one of his spokesman... they all went to some "how to speak poorly in public" seminar or something.; August 23, 2008 11:08 PM
Vicki in Seattle said...: I think we all had favorites coming into this, besides Obama.

my neo-pagan gf liked Kucinich, too.

I didn't consider Obama till my dad (a non-Christian Republican) said last Thanksgiving, "the only one running, R or D, with any new ideas, is OBAMA", that I considered even checking out Obama. Damn near dropped my drink, too!

Up till that point, I was pretty much, "as long as it's NOT BUSH", and in fact, I was leaning Clinton. BECAUSE IT SEEMED LIKE SHE HAD THE BEST SHOT AT IT.

and you know, that basic attitude hasn't changed, other than I'm genuinely behind Obama, and not just against McCain.

btw, husband has improved, swelling is down, and he's found the third LOTR on cable and will likely be entertained for at least another 3.5 hours.; August 23, 2008 11:10 PM
Vicki in Seattle said...: I am mistaken, he found an Obama/Biden poster to printout online, and put in our front window.

;-); August 23, 2008 11:14 PM
jean said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; August 23, 2008 11:15 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Hillary clinton whom you are NOT

Get A LIFE~~~~~; August 23, 2008 11:15 PM
jean said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; August 23, 2008 11:16 PM
apissedant said...: AJ,
The way I would select a VP, and it seems the way most politicians in recent years have selected a VP... is by looking at the negatives instead of the positives.

http://blogsforjohnmccain.com/zogby-poll-july-showed-joe-biden-would-be-negative-obama

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/11/01/MNQ0T45DS.DTL

If you look at any of the polls, and only focus in on the negative portion... Hillary has very bad negatives, much worse than Biden. More people have no opinion of Biden, and less people have a positive opinion of Biden, but way more people have a negative opinion of Hillary.; August 23, 2008 11:16 PM
jean said...: Posted a comment and it is not worth the time for the recognition.
I deleted it.
jean; August 23, 2008 11:19 PM
Mike in Maryland said...: apissedant said...
I'd forgotten about that funny historical moment. LEVITY

AP,

And isn't now a fortuitous time for you to finally admit that sometimes having a relative older age does have it's advantages at times?

VVVBG

(Warning - I won't put up with any 'age' jokes directed at me from you! Nor from anyone else!!)

Mike; August 23, 2008 11:21 PM
apissedant said...: Mike,
LOL, I refer to my father and my great uncle quite often, but it seems their memories are often tainted. I normally end up having to research the facts anyways. It often gives me a starting point for the research though.

Yesterday my dad tried to tell me that Harvard was 25k a year when he went to Law School. It was not.

Damn the elderly and their constant stories of walking barefoot 5 miles uphill both ways. =)

But yes, I will admit that your extra experience and knowledge is often useful to help put things in historical perspective. A web page only gives numbers, sometimes experiences are more useful than raw data.; August 23, 2008 11:30 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Mike IN Maryland

when idiots say that he is better than Hillary sorry I have to disagree. As far as caucuses they are undemocrat. My personal and and a lot more people out there's personal opinion. I wasn't tearing him down. All I said is he's very conservetive and I think Obama could have done better. You say that if HRC hadn't been on the ballot that many of her voters would have voted for him. Well I'm sorry to tell you this but I wouldn't have voted for him.

So I guess you are the type that if someone says their own opinion on something that isn't in line with what you say they are a troll. Does it make you a troll because it seems like all you can do is argue with people. AJ; August 23, 2008 11:30 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Grrr...

Rolin Martin is on CNN talking about what Obama SHOULD be talking about --- but all the things he is mentioning Obama already does talk about - it is the media that just doesn't cover Obama talking about them!

Makes me so mad!; August 23, 2008 11:31 PM
Aunt Jean said...: AP

if she has so many neg. on her why did she get so many votes. AJ; August 23, 2008 11:33 PM
apissedant said...: On the note of the 1992 election... that was the year I went on my eighth grade trip to D.C. My mom has MS, and likes filling her wheel chair with tourist bumper stickers from all over. She asked me to buy her one. I bought her one that said, "friends don't let friends vote Republican." She refused to put it on her wheel chair, apparently she wanted something less controversial and more D.C. oriented. Oh well, I taught her a lesson, be specific!; August 23, 2008 11:33 PM
apissedant said...: AJ,
There are over 190 million registered voters, and she got 18 million votes. You're focusing on the plus 18 million, and I'm focusing on the negative ????
The exact number she WOULDN'T get is unknown, but the math leaves the possibility of not getting as many as 172 million.

Focus on the negatives.

It doesn't matter how many votes she did or did not get under my theory. All that matters is how many people would NOT vote for her. The numbers in all polls undoubtedly show this number higher with her than with Joe Biden.; August 23, 2008 11:42 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Bringing up the past history of the primaries is only going to ruffle feathers ;)

The primaries are over (thank goodness).

We are in the general election now.

The only candidates are:

Obama-Biden vs. McCain-(?)

I hope we can all move on - unite - and get our democrat in the White House :); August 23, 2008 11:42 PM
Mike in Maryland said...: Aunt Jean,

'Many' is not every.

I have my opinions on many subjects. I recognize that my opinions are not always the same opinions that everyone else has.

You have your opinions on many subjects. Byt you seem to think that YOUR opinions are totally superior to anyone else's, totally correct at all times for everyone, and never in doubt as to whether it is best for someone else or not.

You are entitled to your own opinions, but to ASSume (or even presume) that your opinions are the opinions that everyone else should have is beyond ridiculous. It is asinine.

Mike; August 23, 2008 11:46 PM
apissedant said...: By the way AJ, there is one more relevant piece of information in the basic theory of, "focus on the negatives." Hillary Clinton is fully exposed, and almost everyone has an opinion. Biden is pretty well exposed, and many people have an opinion. There are others with even lower negatives than Biden, but because these people, as well as Biden are not as well known, the basic trend must be analyzed. Once people get to know this candidate, will they dislike them?

Biden got good reviews in the debates, has spoken at prior conventions with good reviews, and has been on many national shows and almost always gotten good reviews. Many of the others, including Kaine, did not get very good reviews on the rare occasion they were given national attention. This weighed heavily on their chances of being named the VP candidate, because once people DID get to know them, many would not like them.; August 23, 2008 11:47 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Everyone I never said I dislike Biden. He will be ok. AJ; August 23, 2008 11:51 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Final list...

JayW - 269
Beryl - 280
Hippolytus - 289
Dilbuck - 290
softspoken22 - 298
Emma - 300 (1)
Aunt Jean - 300 (2)
SarahLawrenceScott - 303
Richard - 304
jean - 311
Mike in Maryland - 312
tmess2 - 315
RobH - 317 (1)
apissedant - 317 (2)
Oregon Dem - 332
Leah - 345
Woodland Sprite - 360
Emit R Detsaw - 429
Independent voter - 538

Anyone that had submitted an early guess will be allowed to add (but not change) a second guess October 1st - 3rd. The early guess will be our main contest. The second guess will be considered a separate contest.

SHOULD WE ADD the number, in millions, of votes that we think Obama will get? Even though popular votes doesn't count?; August 23, 2008 11:51 PM
apissedant said...: Leah,
Why not? It gives us the chance to be WAAAAAAYYYY wrong. I like to copy the MSM and be as wrong as possible whenever possible. For this reason, after doing no research, I will guess 68 million.; August 23, 2008 11:55 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: 2004 General Election

Popular vote

Bush 62,040,610

Kerry 59,028,444

----------------------

My guess is that Obama will get 69,000,000 votes!; August 23, 2008 11:58 PM
apissedant said...: Damn you Leah!
LOL... Picking 1 million over my guess.; August 23, 2008 11:59 PM
Aunt Jean said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; August 24, 2008 12:00 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Mike in Maryland

An opinion is just that not a fact.

So if my OPINION is asinine does it make yours lunacy. If you are going to call someones opinion isinine you best take a look at your own short comings.AJ; August 24, 2008 12:02 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: AP-

I didn't see your post.. I was over on wikipedia looking up the data from the last election! Honestly, I did not see your comment and I thought my guess was going to be TOO high and everyone was going to laugh at me!!! LOL :); August 24, 2008 12:04 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Mike in Maryland

I was also basing my opinion on what other people have said to me. AJ; August 24, 2008 12:04 AM
Richard said...: I think instead of popular vote numbers we should do popular vote margin.; August 24, 2008 12:07 AM
Aunt Jean said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; August 24, 2008 12:11 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Mike In Maryland

one more thing.

You are entitled to your own opinions, but to ASSume (or even presume) that your opinions are the opinions that everyone else should have is beyond ridiculous. It is asinine

I didn't ASSume [or even presume] that everyone should have my opinion. I never ASSume that they would.Since I was stating my opinion and what I have personal heard.

So before you start putting words in my mouth you need to make sure of what I'm ASSuming. So I guess your remark is the one that is isinine. AJ; August 24, 2008 12:13 AM
apissedant said...: Leah,
I was kinda wondering the same thing about mine. I'm still planning on at least a 70 EV differential.

My main worry is how negative is this campaign going to get?
I figure the worse it gets, the more it depresses the vote.
I have a feeling it is going to get very ugly, and the predictions and hopes of a high turnout may be dashed.
IF by somer MIRACLE, it doesn't get too negative, I think 69 million might be low. ;); August 24, 2008 12:13 AM
apissedant said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; August 24, 2008 12:16 AM
Richard said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; August 24, 2008 12:17 AM
apissedant said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; August 24, 2008 12:17 AM
Richard said...: Obama-Biden Obama-Biden Obama-Biden Obama-Biden Obama-Biden Obama-Biden Obama-Biden Obama-Biden Obama-Biden '08; August 24, 2008 12:18 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Rich -

How about a # for Obama, a # for McCain and the # for the margin.

So you mean like?

O-69M/Mc-40M (29)

and then go by the margin number?; August 24, 2008 12:18 AM
apissedant said...: I say 68 million for Obama and 60 million for McCain.; August 24, 2008 12:31 AM
Mike in Maryland said...: Aunt Jean said...
I was also basing my opinion on what other people have said to me.

Aunt Jean,

If I lived in Washington, DC, I would hear a lot different opinion from the regular Joe and Jane citizenry than what I would hear in Utah or Wyoming.

I live near the geographic center of Baltimore City in Maryland. If I lived on the Eastern Shore of Maryland, or west of Frederick County in Maryland, I would hear a lot different opinion than I hear in Baltimore City.

What I PERSONALLY hear is partially reflective of who I associate with, and partially reflective of where I live. I take that into account when discussing things with people.

I'm not so sure you do.

Mike; August 24, 2008 12:33 AM
Beryl said...: AJ said,
"All I said is he's very conservetive and I think Obama could have done better."

That is the point I was making. Some states like Colorado prefer Obama because we do not think he a "lefty" and selecting a more liberal VP (e.g. HRC), would have hurt him. Biden being "very conservative" is a good thing.; August 24, 2008 12:42 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Open Thread EV Contest

JayW - 269
Beryl - 280
Hippolytus - 289
Dilbuck - 290
softspoken22 - 298
Emma - 300 (1)
Aunt Jean - 300 (2)
SarahLawrenceScott - 303
Richard - 304
jean - 311
Mike in Maryland - 312
tmess2 - 315
RobH - 317 (1)
apissedant - 317 (2) — (O-68m/JM-60m(8)
Oregon Dem - 332
Leah - 345 — (O-69m/JM-50m (19)
Woodland Sprite - 360
Emit R Detsaw - 429
Independent voter - 538

Everyone can add an Obama pop.vote number and McCain pop.vote number rounded off to the nearest million - the last number is the margin. Or just a pop.vote or margin # if you wish to do so.
___________________________
2004 General Election Popular vote
Bush 62,040,610
Kerry 59,028,444; August 24, 2008 12:44 AM
apissedant said...: I've never heard Biden referred to as conservative before.

http://www.nationaljournal.com/conventions/co_20080823_9669.php

As stated many times by many people, the 2007 year doesn't count that much, because many of the Senators missed a lot of votes due to running for President.; August 24, 2008 12:47 AM
apissedant said...: http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/415481/poll_hillary_clinton_newt_gingrich.html

Old article saying Hillary Clinton and Newt Gingrich had the worst negatives of all possible Presidential candidates.

Hillary also had the most support, but again, only focused on the negatives for the VP slot.; August 24, 2008 12:51 AM
Beryl said...: "I've never heard Biden referred to as conservative before."

I hadn't either but if that is AJ's opinion of him, it is a good thing.; August 24, 2008 12:52 AM
Karen Anne said...: AJ, there's only a 4-5 year difference in age between Biden and Hillary.; August 24, 2008 12:58 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; August 24, 2008 1:05 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: WOW-

The annual salary of each senator, as of 2008, is $169,300; the President pro tempore and party leaders receive $188,100.

That is not much nowadays compared to what lawyers make!

No wonder Senator Biden doesn't have a very high net worth!; August 24, 2008 1:07 AM
Mike in Maryland said...: Karen Anne said...
AJ, there's only a 4-5 year difference in age between Biden and Hillary.

Joe Biden was born on 20 Nov 1942, and Hillary Rodham (her name until she married Bill Clinton) was born on 26 Oct 1947.

According to the date calculator in the genealogy program on my PC, that means the age difference is 4 years, 11 months and 6 days.

Mike; August 24, 2008 1:08 AM

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