Democratic Convention Watch: Open Thread

Tuesday, April 01, 2008

Open Thread

WE'VE MOVED! Democratic Convention Watch is now at http://www.DemocraticConventionWatch.com

Who's going to win, who has a better chance against McCain, or whatever else is on your mind.

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2132 comments:

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dsimon said...: lee: It is amazing how Obama supporters attack anyone who won't vote for Obama as a racist.

I don't. Neither do most Obama supporters, just as some, but not most, Clinton supporters accuse anyone who didn't vote for her as sexist.

Please don't make unwarranted generalizations from a few people who post online.

And I just find it amazing that anyone who believed in Clinton's policy proposals would vote for McCain over Obama when Obama agrees with most of Clinton's positions and McCain disagrees with most of them. I see nothing serously wrong with Obama's policy judgments, and I've seen an administration with one of the most "experienced" staffs in recent history (many from H.W. Bush's administration) make epic mistake after epic mistake.; June 04, 2008 9:35 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Lee-

That is the most ridiculous thing I've heard on this thread today!

Obama's and Hillary's stand on issues are very close.

If you think McCain's plans and policies will be better than Obama's then I would say that you were not endorsing Hillary based on her issues and plans - because if you were you would not go against everything Hillary stands for and vote for McCain.

This isn't a beauty contest - it is the ISSUES that matter.

Obama/Sebelius '08; June 04, 2008 9:35 PM
Independent Voter said...: AMEN jagman; June 04, 2008 9:35 PM
Independent Voter said...: I just heard - she's having a "staff party" on Friday and will be "suspending" her campaign on Saturday. Probably as mentioned before by Oregon Dem, out of respect of RFK.; June 04, 2008 9:41 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: JagMan-

McCain said he was against the new GI bill because it would give the soldiers 'too much' and that a percentage of them would leave the service and in order to go to college.

So, basically if you don't give them enough then they will stay in the service!

McCain is BAD for the soldiers and BAD for America!

DEMOCRATS UNITE and keep the Republicans out of the White House!!!; June 04, 2008 9:41 PM
suzihussein22 said...: apissedant-While surfing, I just couldn't resist. Is this why you're moving?;) Don't let the pane hit ya where the good lord split ya-

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080604/ap_on_fe_st/mooning_mishap;_ylt=AvOzaU9Oc8oCrB1SwHteuhyhOrgF; June 04, 2008 9:47 PM
Independent Voter said...: Oh MY!

"Clinton's latest report to the Federal Election Commission showed an April 30 cash balance of nearly $29.7 million, but that was deceiving. FEC spokesman George Smaragdis said the figure included $6 million in primary-season cash and $23.7 million in donations designated for the fall general election campaign. None of the general election donations can be used to retire debts accrued during the primary season.

Clinton's biggest problem, of course, is the $21 million in IOUs, which include $11,425,000 she is known to have lent her campaign through the first week of May and possibly millions of dollars more in yet-to-be-disclosed loans during her last-ditch primary campaign efforts."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/06/04/clintons-dilemma-awash-in_n_105326.html; June 04, 2008 9:47 PM
Independent Voter said...: ss - LOL - OUCH!; June 04, 2008 9:48 PM
Kujo said...: Lee:

As Leah said and about every "expert", Obama and Clinton are very close on the issues.

And if your true reasons for not voting for Obama was just experience, you would not be so Adament about not having him be the president. You have had many posts on this were you come across and say no way.

If experience was the only issue, then if Obama created a team with Experience, like naming Clinton as VP, then why would you be so Adament on doing what ever you can for McCain.

There needs to be more of a reason then maybe you even know.

And as for experience, I have made a few posts on this issue. CNN looked at all our presidents in a special report and showed that the Presidents with the least experience were seen as the better presidents. Lets look at Bush. Enough Said. Lets look at Kennedy, enough said.

If people are for McCain that is fine, I have no problem with that. But if they are saying its Clinton or McCain, it just does not make sense. They going to take the country in opposite directions.

Lets look at the fall of the USSR (I have posted this issue a few times because of the importance). It has been said that the reason that the USSR fell is because the Reagan Administration forced USSR to FUND a war against Afganistan rebels. We continued to arm the rebels, USSR continue to FUND the fight they could not win. Soon the economy of the USSR crumbled. Now lets look at what is happening in Iraq. Iran coninues to supply the Rebels. We continue to fund a war we can not win. US dollar has dropped 40%. Are things looking good there, nope. Just good enough to keep us funding it.

So to me it is interesting on how someone could be so worried about experience when if we look at the current policies, the "inexperience" one is the one speaking with experience and knowledge.; June 04, 2008 9:57 PM
Hippolytus said...: Memo to Lanny Davis
Please stop "helping" me connect to Hillary supporters by circultating a petition to tab her as VP. I know how many votes she garnered, and who they came from. Don't call me; I'll call you.
Respectfully,
Barack Obama; June 04, 2008 9:58 PM
suzihussein22 said...: I'm not trying to rub this in, but writers can usually express things better than me-

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080604/ap_on_el_pr/how_clinton_lost;_ylt=Amu0QUkhlgWkRAtzKU5M69uyFz4D

If only she had ever admitted a mistake, if only she hadn't ignored caucus states, if only it hadn't mostly been "my campaign", if only she had given less non-answers, if only she could have just said she lied about Bosnia and then joke about it to Jay Leno...; June 04, 2008 9:58 PM
Emit R Detsaw said...: Just a couple comments on McShame about the current Military. Those that have been in the enlisted corps will know what I am talking about.

McCain was the type of officer (and still has the philosophy) that the men don't matter, only the mission.

He even has on his website that he would not enact the draft. He says that the current military of volunteers would gladly stay on longer tours of duty, even longer than 15 months, if the mission called for it.

The current military is overstretched and worn out. He would KILL the effectiveness of whats left of our proud service men and women, and destroy America if he was allowed to gain power.; June 04, 2008 10:10 PM
vwis said...: Lee,

I'll talk to in Nov. You'll be locking yourself in the same place you are now. Do you always cheer for the underdog? Do you feel inadequate that you do not deserve to win? That what I see in you.; June 04, 2008 10:13 PM
vwis said...: Robh,

She and other endorsers of HRC are waiting for her concede. They are showing respect to HRC and waiting for her to release them. Its called loyalty.; June 04, 2008 10:16 PM
Independent Voter said...: lol vwis; June 04, 2008 10:17 PM
Mike in Maryland said...: Lee said...
. . . I am not voting for Obama because he does not have the experience or judgment to be president.

Let's see. A candidate who had a better than a 2-1 lead in the polls over the closest competitor back in November;

A candidate who had the backing of the major party leaders;

A candidate who had the experience of her husband of running not one, but TWO successful primary AND general election runs;

A candidate who had the funding sources that should have scared off EVERY other candidate;

A candidate whose staff (or at least a major figure in it) who presumed that the primary would be over by Super Tuesday AND who didn't know how the delegates were allocated;

And in the end, didn't win the most delegates to the convention?

And you call THAT experience we can trust?

IF, in your myopic, delusional world DO consider that valid experience, then consider this (posted here for the umpteenth time):

How far can 'experience' take a President? Let's look at an example:

The candidate's credentials included:
State representative - 6 years
US Congressman - 10 years
Ambassador to Russia - 3 years
United States Senator - 10 years
Secretary of State - 4 years
Minister to Britain - 3 years

The candidate? James Buchanan, elected as the 15th President.

Compare that with another candidate's credentials:
State representative - 8 years
US Congressman - 2 years (and failed to be reelected because he spoke out against an impending war)

The candidate? Buchanan's successor as President, Abraham Lincoln.

I think Lincoln's judgment, despite a much shorter resume, trumped Buchanan's experience.

And now, please, tell us about Senator Clinton's experience, and how that experience tells us about her judgment.

And then tell us the REAL reason you will vote for McCain.

Mike; June 04, 2008 10:18 PM
vwis said...: Lee,

Obama, himself has shown great restraint and not played the race card. He would like his supporters to follow his lead.; June 04, 2008 10:22 PM
Uncle John said...: Just read Washington Post's online coverage of Obama's speech to AIPAC (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/
content/article/2008/06/04/
AR2008060403508.html?hpid=topnews).

He did indeed refer to settlements when saying Palestinians have a right to a "contiguous and cohesive state", reminding his listeners that Israel has already agreed to refrain from building more settlements.

He also backed Israel's claim to sole possession of Jerusalem as its capital. Premature, in my view.

There is some hope for the Palestinians here.; June 04, 2008 10:30 PM
suzihussein22 said...: I'm glad McCain is proud of his endorsees :)-

http://politicalhumor.about.com/od/politicalcartoons/ig/Political-Cartoons/McCain-Fundraiser.htm; June 04, 2008 10:31 PM
vwis said...: Aunt Jean,

I look forward to blogging with you. Leave a time that you will check in I will try to accommodate.; June 04, 2008 10:32 PM
vwis said...: Goodnight,

I'm breaking out again. I figured out what I'm breaking out to. it's is Neosporin. Talk about the cure be worth than the disease. I guess I'll just have to suffer with a few sores than to swell up like a sponge in a sink full of water.; June 04, 2008 10:38 PM
Meg said...: So the pundits are saying that HRC would not be interested in the VP because she'd have to cough up the donor list to the Clinton Library as part of the vetting process.

She needs a long vacation out of the limelight.; June 04, 2008 10:40 PM
vwis said...: Leah,

Oh, before I go. Over the primaries I have found Keith Oberman more and more accurate. But, tonight I found a flaw. He said that McCain's background last night was lime green, in fact it was kelly green. Someone needs to send him a box of crayons, the big pack. I don't know how I can watch him ever again. I guess I sleep on it.LOL; June 04, 2008 10:43 PM
Beryl said...: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121262109484746703.html?mod=hpp_us_whats_news

By Jackie Calmes

WASHINGTON -- Sen. Hillary Clinton, who refused to concede after Sen. Barack Obama claimed the Democratic presidential nomination Tuesday, will do so Saturday, two top advisers said. Close supporters suggested she would like to be his running mate, on a unity ticket.

But close advisers to Sen. Obama signaled an Obama-Clinton ticket was highly unlikely. People in both camps cited what several called "a deal-breaker" -- Bill Clinton may balk at releasing records of his business dealings and big donors to his presidential library.; June 04, 2008 10:54 PM
Independent Voter said...: Emma,

Kind of makes you wonder who or what they are hiding doesn't it.; June 04, 2008 10:57 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Vwis are you still here. Jean; June 04, 2008 11:00 PM
Independent Voter said...: Hillary Calls it a Draw; June 04, 2008 11:01 PM
apissedant said...: jay,
the duplicity of our government:
For years, sharks have been prowling outside military bases, offering great things and beautiful cars for cheap. They had credit, 0 down for E1 and up!!! NO CREDIT CHECK! They charged ridiculous interest rates that were easily as high as loan sharks. These interest were charged on products that were already overpriced to begin with, and the government ignored it. These soldiers and sailors became so far in debt, that they were forced to reenlist or they would be unable to pay their bills. This was great for the government and the military, so they did nothing.

All the sudden, the problem got out of hand: soldiers and sailors were going bankrupt! Their credit scores were terrible, and they were losing their clearance. These were people that the military spent years and hundreds of thousands of dollars training, and their credit was so bad, they would never get a clearance again. THE GOVERNMENT STEPS IN! They limit the interest rate that can be charged to military personnel. Not to anyone, just to the military. They don't care about us, and they don't care about the military. They care about keeping them working, and keeping them in.

Vote Republican, and screw all your friends and family.; June 04, 2008 11:02 PM
Independent Voter said...: Hey Aunt Jean,

How are you tonight? Are you feeling better?; June 04, 2008 11:02 PM
Meg said...: Kind of makes me wonder who vets the nominees. If she had won the nomination would we ever know what they are hiding?

It's late. I'll check in tomorrow. And I still think there's something strange about the Yamaka transformation, though I enjoy reading his posts. Actually they were more fun when he was more delusional.; June 04, 2008 11:03 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Dave I'm sorry but I do have to tease you are an earlier post. When you said: you'll be exempt from the draft. ;)Are you saying you are to old I hope you know that I'm older than you so speak for yourself old man. LOL LOL LOL { just joking with you]. Jean; June 04, 2008 11:06 PM
Hippolytus said...: I think that her own way, Hillary did Obama a favor by misplaying last night so badly. By trying bully her way on to the ticket, it gives him an out (that is, the need to look like he is not weak). Not that he needs an out...it's his call.
_______
Kudos to Rangel et al. for getting in her face today. She had to get the message from her strong supporters, because she wasn't "getting it" left to her own devices.; June 04, 2008 11:06 PM
apissedant said...: independent,
My friend got kicked out for that. He came in right after Bill Clinton was elected and don't ask don't tell, and he assumed it would keep getting better. He ended up as an instructor at the Naval Academy, and ended up having to police and block a gay protest on campus. He realized it wasn't going to get better, and that he was literally pushing around people he had been to the bar with the night previous. Right after that he came forward and decided he couldn't do it anymore. It worked out well for him, he's got a good job and a couple of nice farm houses, but still...

Anyways... I don't think drafting gays in the military would ever be an option with Republicans. They might have other plans for gays that are not so nice, but not that one.; June 04, 2008 11:07 PM
Hippolytus said...: emma said: "...there's something strange about the Yamaka transformation, though I enjoy reading his posts. Actually they were more fun when he was more delusional."
________________
Let's not look a gift horse in the mouth, Emma.; June 04, 2008 11:09 PM
vwis said...: Aunt Jean,

Actually, I am, I was checking out something else before I shut down.

I just wanted to say you know you say anything to me to get out any leftover feelings. I won't hold it against you.; June 04, 2008 11:13 PM
Hippolytus said...: Independent voter said...
"Hillary Calls it a Draw."
____
Yep, that's the image I've had in my head for several weeks now.; June 04, 2008 11:14 PM
Independent Voter said...: pissedant - I hear ya, they would much rather experiment on us - and I'm not talking sexually...LOL

What really sucks is that I was actually 'out' before DADT. My commanding officer and the rest of my unit didn't care - once DADT went into effect, it was required for them to turn me in. It really sucked. As soon as my partner found out that they were kicking me out, he came out of the closet too and got kicked out. Obviously he did it out of protest....but it did happen. And yes, we are still together - 15 years later.

--------

Aunt Jean - LOL - No I wasn't talking about age....remember they are accepting new recruits up to the age of 42 - I'm 37 (well almost - 4 days) although I feel 45. LOL - just kidding, I feel about 30.; June 04, 2008 11:15 PM
apissedant said...: TO ANYONE STILL SUPPORTING CLINTON,
I would invite you to compare her record, with that of Obama, and with that of Bush, and look which two are most similar. I have posted this again, but let's get the basics. Bush, remember, ran of the experience of having a father who served in the military, served in Congress, served as VP, as P, and several other posts. He also had a grand total of 6 years of experience as governor.
Clinton is running on the experience of being the wife of a Governor and a President. She also has 8 years of Senate experience.

Obama has no experience through family. He has built his own place in life, from food stamps to the WH. He has over ten years of legislative experience.

So, the final tally:
OSMOSIS EXPERIENCE: Bush, 25+, Clinton 12, Obama 0

GOVERNING EXPERIENCE: Obama 10+, Clinton 8, Bush 6

Which appear most similar? So don't give me this experience crap, or this he is like Bush crap, or anything else, because the evidence PROVES the opposite.; June 04, 2008 11:17 PM
vwis said...: independent voter,

It sounds like a realCatch 22.; June 04, 2008 11:19 PM
Independent Voter said...: Whether it is valid or not, one thing we DON'T have to worry about is the Democratic nominee or family dealing with the Peter Paul case around the time of the November election. (October/November surprise); June 04, 2008 11:20 PM
apissedant said...: Mike,
For the last time, agreed.; June 04, 2008 11:21 PM
greywolf said...: Hey everyone. I gather you have all heard that Hillary is going to "SUSPEND" her run for the white house. My question to those in the know is just this. What is the difference between "suspending" jer race and dropping out?; June 04, 2008 11:23 PM
Independent Voter said...: vwis - it really was a catch 22. I had come out after Bill won the 92 election because I took his word at allowing us to serve out in the open. That is why my commanding officer didn't do anything prior to DADT going into effect.; June 04, 2008 11:24 PM
Yamaka said...: apiss:

Back to our discussion on how to pay for $4330 per person per year cost for Universal Health Care:

1. You asserted that we pay lots of taxes already. This is my response:

1. We pay Property Tax: This goes to pay for Schools, teachers and books.

2. We pay City Tax: This goes to pay for Municipal courts, city police and local roads, lights, garbage pick up, mosquito control etc.

3. We pay County Tax: This goes to pay for County courts, jails, police, local roads, Hospitals etc.

4. We pay State Tax: This goes to State courts, jails, police, local roads, State Troops, Hospitals, MedicAid etc.

5. Social Security Tax: This goes to our SS checks till we die, and for the spouse and the disabled

6. Medicare Tax: This goes to our expensive medical care for the elderly. This will go bankrupt in 15 year for sure.

7. Federal Income Tax: This goes for everything the Fed does, including Military, Public Health, R&D of New Technologies, MedicAid etc.

8. Gasoline Tax: This goes to build and maintain the freeways, roads and bridges and maintenance of them.

All these taxes are already used up fully, plus many jurisdictions have deficits including the Fed.

You also claim that there is not much of waste in Fed Govt. (I contend that there is 30-50% waste in unwanted bureaucracies and agencies, which can be eliminated if the President and the Congress really want to).

Now please find the money for the Universal Health Care. Already this $4330 per person per year is if we assume 10% of GDP assigned for this purpose. This is what most of our peers Japan, Canada, England, Germany are spending on National Health Care now.

(In reality today we spend 14-17% of GDP)!

__________________________

On the Presidential Politics:

Barack has to quickly move and decide whether he wants Hillary to be the VP or not.

Waiting too long will hurt him politically.

He must quickly say yes or no, decisively. This will show the world that he can make sound decision.

Then, he must focus solely on McCain.

Personally, I want him to extend the invitation, then Hillary should decline but promise to work hard for his election to the WH. IMO

Cheers.; June 04, 2008 11:25 PM
Independent Voter said...: suspending means that if something happens between now and the convention - scandal, anything else, she will be ready to jump in.; June 04, 2008 11:25 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Hippolytus-

Did you get Aunt Jean's number for the contest?
It was 2253 - I believe.

____

vwis -

I didn't even notice the green background when I was watching McCain's speech. After the talking heads started talking about it I went and took a look. That 'cottage cheese in lime jello' remark I heard was memorable.

During McCain's speech I was waiting to see how many times he would say 'my friends' and also that goofy little 'hehehe' laugh he has is HILARIOUS.

I can barely wait to see Obama and McCain side by side on a stage. Obama will win hands down!!!

OBAMA/Sebelius '08; June 04, 2008 11:26 PM
apissedant said...: independent,
I'm glad it worked out for you in the end. Not the best situation in the world, but a long lasting relationship developed, and I'd rather have that then a job in the military. You couldn't pay me enough to step back on a Navy ship again. I'm not sure my buddy's relationship is going to work out as well. He went for the young useless stud.; June 04, 2008 11:26 PM
apissedant said...: LEAH!!!!
Most memorable line of June 3, 2008. The line I will never forget:
"THANK YOU FOR STAYING THE COURSE"

FROM HILLARY RETARDO CLINTON; June 04, 2008 11:28 PM
Emit R Detsaw said...: Suspending is the same thing Edwards did.

Plus suspended I think she can still raise funds until the convention to pay off her debt.; June 04, 2008 11:29 PM
Hippolytus said...: How ironic would it be if Webb is the last super to endorse, and he's the one picked as VP?
I wonder whether the reason he has not announced is to preserve the possibility that a VP announcement could be orchestrated to occur simultaneously with his endorsement. Seems a little strange that he has not come out for Obama, though. Anybody have any thoughts re: the political theater surrounding this possibility?; June 04, 2008 11:29 PM
Independent Voter said...: Yam - Personally, I want him to extend the invitation, then Hillary should decline but promise to work hard for his election to the WH. IMO

--------

How do you propose for this to be made public that he attempted but she declined? This would have to be VERY careful maneuvering because he can't make it look like he can't do it without her, but it can't look as though she is bitter. He also can't make it look as if it were a "consolation prize" either.; June 04, 2008 11:30 PM
greywolf said...: My concern, is that I have been listening to the news all day. It was stated on MSNBC, FOX, ABC, and MSN, that it was reported that she also wants to keep her delegates until the convention. Why would she want to do that, for what purpose?; June 04, 2008 11:32 PM
apissedant said...: http://politicalhumor.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?zi=1/XJ&sdn=politicalhumor&cdn=entertainment&tm=14&gps=499_331_1020_592&f=00&su=p504.1.336.ip_&tt=2&bt=0&bts=1&zu=http%3A//www.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3Do-zoPgv_nYg

Not funny at all. That was the best/worst youtube video I have ever, ever seen. A tear literally came to my eye.; June 04, 2008 11:32 PM
Aunt Jean said...: VWIS
I'm not saying that I am happy about what happened I'm not by all means. This is one thing that I truely believe not only Obama but Hillary too has said somes things that both parties have taken wrong. I really don't know if I would want Hillary as VP. I have very mixed feelings about that. But there is one thing and I feel very strongly about. If not Hillary [like I'm not sure if I like that idea] I just hope that he picks a man not a woman. Plus anyone besides Richardson. He is nothing but a traitor. I do believe that he told Bill and Hillary that he wouldn't endorse Obama. So there is a lot of anger at him. Jean; June 04, 2008 11:32 PM
apissedant said...: grey,
Because I guessed 1282, and she wants me to win. If she gives away all her delegates before Sunday, I lose. NOT COOL. The Clinton's got my back yo.; June 04, 2008 11:33 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Independent voter -

I read the other day that the Judge in the Peter Paul lawsuit postponed the date that Hillary will have to testify until almost the end of the year so that the trial would not interfere with her campaign - I wonder if she will have to go sooner now. I wonder when the media is going to start talking about the trial.

-----------

Yamaka-

It has been reported that Obama will not make a decision regarding his VP until at least by the end of July. There is no reason to rush - and besides wait a week or two and Hillary will not be getting as much press coverage as she is now - there will be some other issue that everyone will be talking about.

.; June 04, 2008 11:34 PM
Hippolytus said...: Leah Texas4Obama said...
"Did you get Aunt Jean's number for the contest?
It was 2253 - I believe."
_______
I did not catch that, but I'll go though the thread and come up with a complete list that we can circulate for review when we get a little closer.; June 04, 2008 11:35 PM
greywolf said...: If you have not heard, it was reported from the clinton camp that it is very unlikely that Senator Clinton will be offered the VP slot. There are several deal breakers involving their finances, as well as "BILL's business dealings and the list of those that donated to his presidential lib. That has been all over the news, although they are still talking about it, there are several problems involving tax records of Bill Clinton and his business dealing.; June 04, 2008 11:35 PM
apissedant said...: emit,
yes, she can still raise funds to pay down the debt while suspending... at least until the convention.

hip,
NO! Webb sucks... boo... Pick someone other than my Senator! Pick my Governor or something!

independent,
I say don't extend the invitation at all. I say instead of this, name her as the forth person to search for a VP.; June 04, 2008 11:36 PM
greywolf said...: Correction that came from the obama camp that it is unlikely the offer will be made.; June 04, 2008 11:36 PM
Yamaka said...: Indepen:

This is a very tricky job, I agree.

But it needs to be done very boldly and candidly.

His intermediaries and common friends can do the job for him.

His first challenge to move towards the WH!; June 04, 2008 11:37 PM
Mike in Maryland said...: Hippolytus said...
. . . Let's not look a gift horse in the mouth

Depending on who is giving the gift horse depends on how closely you look at the horse's mouth.

And in some cases, but not necessarily in this one, sometimes the horse's mouth is not the gift horse.

Mike; June 04, 2008 11:37 PM
apissedant said...: I vote early July to announce a VP. I need a bumper sticker that says Obama/Sebelius; June 04, 2008 11:37 PM
greywolf said...: my prediction last night was 2300 by sunday or monday at the latest.; June 04, 2008 11:38 PM
dsimon said...: yamaka: 5. Social Security Tax: This goes to our SS checks till we die, and for the spouse and the disabled

The statement isn't entirely clear, but I think it's not correct. Our Social Security taxes do not go to our future Social Security checks. Present revenues go to present retirees. Today's workers help support today's elderly. Our taxes do not go to accounts with our names on them; most of it goes right out in benefits.; June 04, 2008 11:38 PM
vwis said...: Ant,

The Bush family and the Clintons are really more of a friendly rivalry then political enemies. They have a lot in common geographically, neighboring states. They have different political ideals, but Hillary is leaning more moderate and George W. Bush considers himself a moderate. They both benefit from this rivalry. I dare say that if Jeb Bush had been the opposing candidate she would of had more support. People love to weigh-in on them. Jeb didn't run this time, because they know by GWB popularity rating he probably wouldn't get it and also out of respect for Hillary. This was to be her turn. Jeb has already said he intends to run in 2012. They have Patrick to run after that. Also, Hagel their new son-in-law comes from a rep family. I also expect that Chelsea was bit by the political bug during this campaign. I give her two years before she makes the realization that its in her blood.
GWB said he studied Bill and how he beat out his dad. He used many of the same techniques. Chelsea was studying BHO. She will pick-up some of his methods.
Its the end of a legacy for now at least, but it is far from over.; June 04, 2008 11:39 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Dave

remember I will be 55 in2 weeks from today but feel 40 lol kudos to you.[no insult to Kudo]It's called GOOD GENES!!! LOL Jean; June 04, 2008 11:40 PM
Hippolytus said...: apissedant said...
"Because I guessed 1282, and she wants me to win. If she gives away all her delegates before Sunday, I lose."
_______
ant,
Not to worry -- the contest will close before Sunday if we get to 50 remaining. And your number is 2282, I assume.
-Hippolytus; June 04, 2008 11:41 PM
greywolf said...: The only record is that the social security keeps track of what you pay in SS taxes every year, as this will determing the amount you reveive when you retire.

Also do not forget the matching funds employeers pay in SS. If you pay 102 a month in SS taxes, your employeer also pays 102 in SS tax. That additional money does not go to your ssn, it goes to the general fund that also helps keep the system afloat.; June 04, 2008 11:42 PM
greywolf said...: I know I had 31 employees 2 years ago. monthly I paid from my business expenses 3795 each month above and beyond what was with held form employees ss taxes; June 04, 2008 11:44 PM
Mike in Maryland said...: Yamaka said...
Barack has to quickly move and decide whether he wants Hillary to be the VP or not.

Waiting too long will hurt him politically.

Entirely DISAGREE.

The selection of the Vice Presidential nominee is the first decision. The nominee has a long time to consider who is best for the job, what they want that nominee to do in a future administration, and to show the American people that they do not make hasty and rash decisions based solely on politics.

I don't expect a nominee to be named until late July/early August, if not later.

Mike; June 04, 2008 11:44 PM
Yamaka said...: dsimon:

Yes, you are correct.

You can also look at as the premium you pay for the benefit you collect some years later!

My point is there is no money left any where to pay for the Universal health care w/o finding new revenue either from new taxes and/or eliminating some existing programs/agencies or something.

There is no free lunch. Somebody should pay for it.

How and who will pay for the UHC?; June 04, 2008 11:44 PM
greywolf said...: i will be fully retired in 6 years. That is scary. of course I would keep working beyond 63 by why bother. I may just tinker around and do some part time labor. Who know.; June 04, 2008 11:46 PM
greywolf said...: However I might add he should if not must name the VP at the convention..; June 04, 2008 11:48 PM
greywolf said...: UHC, if it goes the way Obama wants it, there will be no need to raise additional taxes for everyone, but for a fractional amount of the mass. Either way there will besome burden, and it would require some additional taxes.; June 04, 2008 11:52 PM
Hippolytus said...: apissedant said...
"I vote early July to announce a VP. I need a bumper sticker that says Obama/Sebelius"
____________
I personally would have no problem with a female VP nominee, but there seems to be some significant feeling that Obama had better not pick a female other than Hillary. Since Obama can presumably find a suitable male pick, I'm guessing that he'll choose to avoid that fight. I don't like that, but it would seem to make some sense.
Your idea of putting Clinton on the VP panel is intriguing and would be a way to give Hillary some props, but it would perpetuate tensions if Obama did not want to accept her choice. I suppose having her on a panel without a veto right might be something that Obama might want to discuss with her on Friday (or beyond). Of course, she can have input without being part of the panel. You have an interesting idea, though.; June 04, 2008 11:54 PM
Beryl said...: "The selection of the Vice Presidential nominee is the first decision. The nominee has a long time to consider who is best for the job, what they want that nominee to do in a future administration, and to show the American people that they do not make hasty and rash decisions based solely on politics."

Agreed.

I'm now convinced that Obama will be able to name anyone he wants. Hillary congressional supporters called her on the carpet today and gave her quite a tongue lashing, I hear. Many of them were insulted by her using them as bargaining chips and wanted to be "free". Also, her request for "input" in her speech yesterday came across as not being a request for demands to benefit her supporters.

It appears that she underestimated them. Nobody wants to feel like they are owned and controlled by anyone. If Obama had pulled something like that, I would have dumped him quickly.; June 04, 2008 11:56 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: greywolf -

Are you sure you said 2300?

I was one of the first people to guess and I said 2300.

Ya might want to go back and check your number ;); June 04, 2008 11:59 PM
Mike in Maryland said...: greywolf said...
Hey everyone. I gather you have all heard that Hillary is going to "SUSPEND" her run for the white house. My question to those in the know is just this. What is the difference between "suspending" jer race and dropping out?

There is a technical difference that only attorneys at the Federal Election Commission worry about.

In other words, for all intents and purposes, there is no difference between 'suspending' a campaign and 'dropping out' of a campaign.

Mike; June 05, 2008 12:00 AM
Keryl said...: Ed - you are too kind. I'm honored.; June 05, 2008 12:00 AM
apissedant said...: hipp,
If he did it right now, it would appear as a slap in the face. If he consults Clinton about her and publicly allows her in the meeting to decide who the VP is.... and also waits at least a month... I think it will soften the tone and make it all work out ok. I really think Webb is the worst choice possible. How many times have we been called sexist in the last 2 days? I count five or six, because I support Barack Obama. Then to name a man as the VP candidate with a VERY, VERY long history of sexist statements... yeah... not good. He is also cold, and doesn't follow the rules. He is a lose cannon.

If he decides a guy... I'm still thinking Tim Kaine. My favorite would be Bill Bradley or John Edwards, but Tim Kaine is probably a safe choice. Although Tim Kaine has a baby face and isn't that old. Maybe I would go with Bill Bradley.

I change my vote, Bradley or Sebelius. I should stop typing at the same time I am thinking. It leads to an odd process, but you can see directly in my head this way.; June 05, 2008 12:05 AM
apissedant said...: Mike,
I keep hearing it allows her to continue raising funds. Once the race is over, then you are no longer allowed to donate to primary funds. This is to prevent people from buying off candidates by giving them money that literally goes directly in their pocket... in her case... 20 million dollars; June 05, 2008 12:07 AM
suzihussein22 said...: independent voter-11:01p.m.-Or else I'll bite your kneecaps he he he...you're so mean.

goodnite y'all...that benadryl hits me harder than a shot of Jack; June 05, 2008 12:07 AM
Beryl said...: Hippolytus said...

"I personally would have no problem with a female VP nominee, but there seems to be some significant feeling that Obama had better not pick a female other than Hillary."

Initially many die-hard HRC supporters felt wounded and insulted if another woman was selected but I don't think it will matter one bit after a few weeks. People are funny like that.; June 05, 2008 12:08 AM
Independent Voter said...: Aunt Jean I just hope that he picks a man not a woman.

-----

Who would you like to see him pick if not a woman?

I say Kathleen Sebelius the other day on one of the "news" talk shows and I think Leah is right, she does seem to be a very good choice. I would also like to see Lincoln Chafee as a possibility.; June 05, 2008 12:09 AM
Hippolytus said...: ant said:
"Webb sucks... boo... Pick someone other than my Senator! Pick my Governor or something!"
_____
I'm not advocating Webb; I was just inquiring about the theatrics surrounding him. I suspect that Obama will not pick a sitting Dem Senator. My head says he'll go for a male, and probably a Governor. If it has to be a male, my heart says a former Senator (preferably, Bill Bradley; if not, Sam Nunn). If it is a woman, there are a bunch available (including Sebelius).; June 05, 2008 12:10 AM
vwis said...: Aunt Jean,

I am sure that if he wants her support and Bill's to campaign for him earnestly that there will be agreement that it will not be another woman. That would be viewed as disrespecting her. BHO knows he needs their support and influence. See my 11:39 post. It all a bit of theater.
It was very revealing in her speech last night. When she explained why she stayed in the race ...causes(politically correct answer)...For you to be respected, to be heard, and not to be invisible.I all of a sudden got it. BHO had disrespected her by entering the race before his time. She had respected Kerry in 2004 and felt she earned the same. No junior senator should have gone up against her. Maybe governor, but not someone who is her junior. He was there to get his name out there and become better known. Maybe VP, but that was all. Then he spoke better than her more eloquently, another insult in her opinion. Finally he ired her by ignoring her and not campaign against her, but John MaCain. I never saw that until last night. She insulted him because he had insulted her. That the southern way. Also, where they come from its an all win proposition. You either win every game or you lose every game. That's how their brought up from young. They learn it early in sports.(By the time their 10 its drilled into them.) No johnnie-come-lately is ever gonna win.
I'm close to saying my VP, but need to sleep on it since I'm under the weather.; June 05, 2008 12:11 AM
Hippolytus said...: Where's Pat Moynihan when we need him? He would have been a great VP pick!; June 05, 2008 12:11 AM
Independent Voter said...: pissed ant - I wasn't saying extend the offer. All I was asking yam was to explain how it would be done. I said that for appearance sake that Obama should offer and for Clinton to refuse. That's all.; June 05, 2008 12:12 AM
Yamaka said...: grey:

How much revenue needs to be raised and from whom, as per Obama's Plan of UHC?

I need to know the calculation.

My Math (lol) shows that we need $4330 per person per year to cover ALL Americans.

If some are exempted, then who will pick up the cost when these people get sick?; June 05, 2008 12:13 AM
apissedant said...: ooooohhhhh...
I like Chafee too. DARN IT. Apparently I like a lot of VP candidates. I never realized how many politicians I like. I think I need to see a doctor.

Chafee is short on experience and drive though. Great for bipartisanship and change, but Chafee was just a player in the game, not a leader. Seems someone stronger than a dude that worked on horse shoes would be nice.; June 05, 2008 12:13 AM
Independent Voter said...: aunt jean - LOL - don't forget, it's not just good genes, it's also what looks GOOD IN JEANS! LOL :); June 05, 2008 12:15 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Here are the ones that I found that were posted for the contest:

Leah 2300
Hippolytus 2280
Oregon Dem 2331
justin 2230
apissedant 2282
Kujo 2235
tmessz 2235
softspoken 2240
November politics 2265
Uncle John 2281
Aunt Jean 2253
greywolf QUOTE "Hoping to see him in the 2300's by Sunday night..."

Hippolytus... you can check that against your list to see if you have everyone.; June 05, 2008 12:15 AM
vwis said...: Ant,

Has a point, it is usually a senator with a governor. Only occasionally do both senators or both governor run together. Its usually the kiss of death. Sometimes its someone, a party insider.; June 05, 2008 12:15 AM
Independent Voter said...: p'd ant-LOL - I agree with you on Chafee - but how much more blue collar can one get?; June 05, 2008 12:16 AM
vwis said...: Leah,

Here's mine, if its not too late. 2333.; June 05, 2008 12:17 AM
apissedant said...: independent,
I know, but I don't even want the words to ever leave his mouth. She doesn't get the chance to turn him down. She is a player, but she is not in this game. They are on the same team, but not in the same forum. She plays in Senate now, he plays in the Executive, and that should be his choice, and there should be no question. She questioned his strength too many times. Now he has to show his strength in response. Softly, but assertively.; June 05, 2008 12:18 AM
Independent Voter said...: hipp - I know you weren't really advocating Webb, but I have to throw my two cents in.

Webb, I think would be a huge mistake. The only reason I say that is because of some of the passages in his earlier "fictional" books. I posted some of those quite a while ago. I think it would scare the living hell out of some people. Ask ant about that one. LOL. Repubs tried using it against him, and it almost worked if Allen hadn't pulled his whole Macaca gaffe.; June 05, 2008 12:19 AM
Hippolytus said...: ant,
Alright! I'm so glad we're on the same page re: Bradley. He would be awesome, and has much in common with Obama's ideas about changing Washington. The fact that he came out with his own book on the subject was his way of signaling that he would be very interested in serving his country in this way. He is so highly respected, practically vetted, and an ultimate team player. He would be the perfect choice, IMHO. (I won't make the mistake of circulating a "Draft Bradley" petition, though.) And before I offered it to Bradley, I'd give Gore the respect he deserves by offering it to him first (though I'm sure he doesn't).; June 05, 2008 12:22 AM
apissedant said...: ok everyone! I am actually tired before 2 am!!!! It's a miracle! I'm going to bed to join my wife. You all have a great night!; June 05, 2008 12:23 AM
Independent Voter said...: p'd ant - "he has to show his strength in response. Softly, but assertively."

------

Good point, and point VERY well taken.

We all have to remember that Obama has a full transparency policy so it has to be somebody CLEAN. I'm NOT saying the Clinton's aren't clean, I'm just saying IF there is anything questionable he doesn't want it coming out and undermining his message and vision.; June 05, 2008 12:24 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Dave I'll tell you a funny story I was at a park with family and friends. Well I was bending over at the same time my nephew drove up with 2 of my other nephews and he said BOY what an ASS [sorry Matt].Then my other 2 nephews realized it was me . They started laughing up a storm. Needless to say he was teased all night. LOL Jean; June 05, 2008 12:24 AM
Independent Voter said...: Gnight p'd ant!; June 05, 2008 12:24 AM
Hippolytus said...: Leah,
You are so on top of it! Thanks for the list; I'll double check it.
You're the best! ;-); June 05, 2008 12:25 AM
Independent Voter said...: LOL! Good for you Jean! WOOOOO HOOOOO!; June 05, 2008 12:25 AM
Aunt Jean said...: apissedant
good night. Jean; June 05, 2008 12:26 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Right now on CNN.com in the right side box where the little pictures of the videos are, if you click on the arrow to go to the 'right' you will see a video there titled OBAMA's VP LIST

I watched it earlier and there is a GREAT shot of Kathleen Sebelius in there - along with other possibilities.; June 05, 2008 12:28 AM
Mike in Maryland said...: Leah Texas4Obama said...
Here are the ones that I found that were posted for the contest:

Harummph!

You left my prediction off the list. Does that mean I can adjust my prediction? VBG

Mike; June 05, 2008 12:28 AM
Aunt Jean said...: mike in maryland no that wouldn't be fair lol. Jean; June 05, 2008 12:30 AM
Independent Voter said...: I was just thinking about this, and instead of thinking about who his VP is going to be at this point, perhaps he should be thinking about who his closest advisors and cabinet members are going to be. Announce them over the next couple months and then unveil his VP at the convention.

This way everyone has a chance to get to know why type of cabinet he's going to have behind him. Like who his Joint Chiefs of Staff is going to be. Who he would nominate as SoS, SoD, DoJ, etc. This way people can realize that he is going to have the best OF the best in his cabinet.; June 05, 2008 12:32 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Leah find Mike's numbers he's feeling left out. LOL Jean; June 05, 2008 12:32 AM
vwis said...: Goodnight, again!; June 05, 2008 12:35 AM
Mike in Maryland said...: Aunt Jean said...
Leah find Mike's numbers he's feeling left out.

I'm sure Leah knows that I was posting in jest.

Did you notice the "!" after the 'Harummph'?

Did you notice the 'VBG' at the end of the post?

I'm sure Leah did.

Mike; June 05, 2008 12:37 AM
Independent Voter said...: gnight vwis; June 05, 2008 12:37 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: JayW-

Be sure to look at the front page http://demconwatch.blogspot.com/

There is your photo of you with Obama !!!

----

Mike -
I did a only quick search (for everything that started with 22 and 23) and didn't see ya. But this is Hippolytus' contest so he probably has you on his list ;) If not then I guess you will have to ask 'him' if you can change your number :)

.; June 05, 2008 12:39 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Hippolytus -

Don't forget to add

vwis 2333

to your list and also Mike in Maryland ;); June 05, 2008 12:43 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Mike in maryland I wasn't insulting I was teasing. Jean; June 05, 2008 12:47 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Regarding money...

Do Obama and McCain use primary money until the conventions to run against each other or are they now using general election money?

Anyone know when it changes?; June 05, 2008 12:48 AM
Aunt Jean said...: vwis goodnight looking forward to blogging with you. Jean; June 05, 2008 12:48 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Uh oh ... on the front page of DCW:

"Barack Obama is the Democratic Presidential Nominee for the 2008 General Election, so DemConWatch has decided that we will no longer be updating our superdelegate lists or tables."

----

Now what where are we going to go to get our final number for our contest ???
.; June 05, 2008 12:50 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Leah that isn't fair. Maybe they can keep up with it and tell us convention day? Jean; June 05, 2008 12:53 AM
justin said...: The VP talk now almost always contains 'if its a woman...' or 'if its a man...'

Seems that the strides made to break the ceiling have made us more aware of it.

Is it really disrespectful to Clinton if the VP is a woman???; June 05, 2008 1:00 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Well folks I'm calling it a night I'm feeling better but still not quite right. Will touch base tomorrow. To all have a great night. Hillary you will be in my prayers tonight.Jean; June 05, 2008 1:02 AM
justin said...: 'Night Aunt Jean; June 05, 2008 1:04 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Justin just a thought it would be an insult to her. If Obama is the person you think he is he would consider that.Not trying to sound mean or hateful just how I would feel.It would be a big insult to Clinton supporters. Jean; June 05, 2008 1:06 AM
justin said...: Aunt Jean,
I see that she got so far and did so much. I think she deserves respect, but why is a female more hurtful than a male; either way, it's not HRC. Maybe I don't get it...; June 05, 2008 1:10 AM
Keryl said...: Don't look now but JayW and Superman are on the front page...; June 05, 2008 1:15 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Justin the reason it would be an insult is because it would be like saying you are not good enough. When there was so many people that voted for her. I can't help that some woman are strange.But all joking aside it would be insulting. LOL Jean; June 05, 2008 1:15 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Justin maybe it's more that it would hurt her. So being a woman I could understand her pain. Jean; June 05, 2008 1:17 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: It shouldn't matter if Obama picks a man or a woman. If women ever want to be treated as equals then we women have to stop looking at everything based on 'gender'.

Obama needs to pick the person that he thinks is the best for the job and a person that he can get along with for the next 4 or 8 years.

No one should be saying that now that Hillary is out of the race that it means that all other women should be automatically be disqualified - that is gender discrimination.

Obama/Kathleen Sebelius '08; June 05, 2008 1:17 AM
Independent Voter said...: gnight aunt jean and everyone else.

I'm thinking about your question justin. I don't think that Hillary would take it as an insult, but I think her supporters probably would. Especially with Obama's "transparency" policy. I just have the feeling Bill Clinton doesn't want to open up his library donor records, overseas business dealings etc. Obama has stated he wants as transparent a cabinet as possible. And I honestly don't think the Clintons are willing to open everything up to be scrutinized by the public. I could be wrong, it wouldn't be the first time...well ok maybe it would....JUST KIDDING! LOL! Damn, I admitted being wrong about something earlier, so it wouldn't be the first time. LOL!

Gnight All!; June 05, 2008 1:18 AM
justin said...: Cool, I get the jist of being slighted. But why would a male VP pick be less of a slight. Still says your not good enough. It even might feed into the calls of sexism. I don't believe Barack is a sexist. I also don't believe he has a low opinion of Hillary.; June 05, 2008 1:19 AM
Aunt Jean said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; June 05, 2008 1:19 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Dave I meant goodnight pleasant dreams. Jean; June 05, 2008 1:21 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: The solution is simple.

Since Hillary will not want to be VP because then Bill would have to open his library donor records and he doesn't want to do that... then in a month or two Hillary can come out and make a be fuss about women being overlooked and SHE can demand that Obama look at a few women for VP. Then she can look like it was her idea to get a woman into the VP slot and then Obama can pick whomever he wishes too.

Everything will look much different to everyone a month or two from now.; June 05, 2008 1:23 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Justin because of the fact that she is a woman.Him picking a man would be less insulting. I know it doesn't make sound right just the way it is.Jean; June 05, 2008 1:24 AM
justin said...: Leah,
I agree with your points (1:17), you are saying what I mean (not the 1st time).

Independent
The idea that vetting might keep Hillary out of the cabinet, I'll have to consider that. Good point.; June 05, 2008 1:25 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Really and truely good night. Have a pleasant one.Jean; June 05, 2008 1:25 AM
Bob in Vancouver said...: I keep watching the speeches of McCain and Obama on Y-tube over and over again, and the difference is so stark. McCains speech was boring, while Obama just blows me away.

There is no way that McCain can win the Presidential election. Obama is a head and sholders above McCain in every way I can think of. The guy is briliant. We're darn lucky the Republicans haven't got anyone of his caliber.; June 05, 2008 1:25 AM
Keryl said...: Leah -

I'm going to be an optimist. 2400+; June 05, 2008 1:26 AM
tmess2 said...: My understanding as to the difference between suspend and withdraw is that the FEC allows a candidate who has suspended to continue to raise money to retire their debt as they are still technically a candidate. If you withdraw or end your candidacy, you can't retire the debt and the candidate has to pay it.

As to the draft, there are both military and political reasons not to reinstate it. The military reason is the belief that you have fewer morale problems in a volunteer army. The political reasons is that a draft exposes a larger segment of the population to having to fight in a war. Right now, most opponents of the war are at no risk of having a family member being forced to serve in Iraq. That makes the opposition a little more academic and less personal. Opponents can talk about the best way to get out. If the opponents had family members serving there, the need for an immediate end would be much more urgent.; June 05, 2008 1:29 AM
Hippolytus said...: Here are the entries that I found that were posted for the contest:

vwis 2333
Oregon Dem 2331
Leah 2300
apissedant 2282
Uncle John 2281
Hippolytus 2280
Mike in MD 2268.5
November politics 2265
Aunt Jean 2253
michael from MN 2250
softspoken 2240
Kujo 2235*
tmessz 2235*
justin 2230
RobH 2222
_____
* Kujo beat you to 2235, tmess2. Please submit another number.

**greywolf's "Hoping to see him in the 2300's by Sunday night..." is too vague. Please submit a specific number.

Still haven't heard from a lot of the regulars, including Yamaka, JayW, Vicki, Emit R. Detsaw, Matt, and many others. No one gets left out. Get your entries in before there are less than 50 remaining (and in no event before Sunday). If I've omitted any entries, I apologize; please resubmit your first number that has not been taken. I'll try to update the tally nightly.
Good night to all.; June 05, 2008 1:29 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Hippolytus-

You will have to decide where we are going to get the number from Sunday now that DCW has stopped updating the Superdelegate list and left side box.

I would recommend either RealClearPolitics.com
or
the number on Obama's website.
-----

Everyone give your number guess to Hippolytus - this is HIS contest ;); June 05, 2008 1:29 AM
justin said...: Time heals all wounds. Or most. At least some. I have no doubt that the landscape will look different in a few days and weeks.

I agree that Obama next to McCain is a stark contrast. I think a Lincoln-Douglas type debate --3 hour open style debate, 1 hr to 1st candidate, 1.5 to second, 30 min rebuttal from first-- might be the best way to showcase the differences in character, charisma, and policy.; June 05, 2008 1:31 AM
Hippolytus said...: Keryl said...
"Leah -
I'm going to be an optimist. 2400+"
_____
Keryl, please submit a specific number.
-Hippo; June 05, 2008 1:31 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Bob in Vancouver-

They were saying today that
McCain's speech was about Obama, Clinton's speech was about Hillary, and Obama's speech was about America! ;)

I bet the Republicans are pretty worried right now with McCain going up against Obama. McCain is really looking too old and he is making too many gaffes everyday - but they are stuck with him now! I just hope they don't pick a woman for VP before we do. I wouldn't put that past McCain now that he is trying to get the Hillary women over there to the Republican side.; June 05, 2008 1:39 AM
justin said...: McCain does have a personal touch in the town hall-type setting. Someone said he looks like grandpa. But the inspiration of Obama is awesome.

I may never forget those images of him in Oregon with the sea of people watching.; June 05, 2008 1:40 AM
justin said...: Will we see McCain's temper in the coming months? I've heard it's legendary.; June 05, 2008 1:41 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Justin-

Most of McCains big goofs have been in town hall settings. I don't think that he will have an advantage over Obama.

I've been watching many of Obama's smaller town hall rallies and Obama does really well. He is quick on his feet and he puts in some fun jokes in there and people like him.

I think Obama is actually better at town halls than McCain is.

When they both get on the stage together McCain is going to look REALLY old!; June 05, 2008 1:43 AM
Hippolytus said...: Leah Texas4Obama said...

"Hippolytus-
You will have to decide where we are going to get the number from Sunday now that DCW has stopped updating the Superdelegate list and left side box.
I would recommend either RealClearPolitics.com
or
the number on Obama's website."
_____
Darn it, nothing is ever easy. I respect RCP, but they seem to be under-reporting (2181 vs. 2187.5 on the Obama site, and RCP is not reflecting full Edwards conversions). Out of respect for our nominee, why don't we use the official Obama site number, unless DCW unfreezes its count?; June 05, 2008 1:44 AM
justin said...: Hippo-
Your game, your rules. Move the goal posts at will. kidding.

Obama site seems like a solid source to me.; June 05, 2008 1:48 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Hippolytus-

DCW is not going to unfreeze it. This is Matt said on another thread:

Matt said...

I would suggest you guys keep the lists yourselves. You all know the rules. Reach a consensus (no different than Oreo and I did), and keep a running total by day.

Use this thread, or the superd comment thread, which remains open.

Or, you could just give Obama 823.5 and be done with it!

We'll be watching to see how you folks do!

June 05, 2008 1:17 AM
__________________

So I guess the Obama site number would be the best one to use. This going COLD TURKEY after being addicted to looking at the numbers every few minutes is going to be HARD! LOL ;)
.; June 05, 2008 1:51 AM
Hippolytus said...: Aunt Jean said...
"Leah that isn't fair. Maybe they can keep up with it and tell us convention day?"
_______
No need to wait for the convention; please see my June 5, 1:44 am post. Good luck in the contest, Aunt Jean!; June 05, 2008 1:51 AM
Hippolytus said...: leah texas4obama said:
"So I guess the Obama site number would be the best one to use. This going COLD TURKEY after being addicted to looking at the numbers every few minutes is going to be HARD!"
_____
Yeah, it is addictive, isn't isn't? I've been driving my wife nuts with the need to check the sidebar every few minutes. It's been so much fun, though.; June 05, 2008 1:56 AM
Hippolytus said...: If we wanted to be really inaccurate with our count, we could use the numbers from NY Times! lol; June 05, 2008 1:59 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Well I guess it is all over now and with the lead that Obama has in delegates nothing other than the end of the world can probably stop him now from his acceptance speech at the convention.

What next?

I guess looking at the poll numbers of Obama/McCain and their percentages in the individual states will be the next numbers to get addicted to ;)

I am hoping that now we are down to two candidates that RCP will start having more individual state polls over there to look at :)

RCP still has the info up for the Clinton polls - I guess they will clean up their site a bit after the weekend.; June 05, 2008 2:03 AM
justin said...: A laugh, then I'm off to sleep

http://www.cartoonistgroup.com/store/add.php?iid=23913; June 05, 2008 2:08 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Goodnight to everyone that is heading to bed and also to those that have already gone :); June 05, 2008 2:15 AM
Hippolytus said...: Leah et al.,
Here's a link to electoral maps from Real Clear Politics that I don't think are linked to its main webpage:

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/
epolls/maps/obama_vs_mccain/

Although it's not interactive like some maps, one of the things that's nice about it is that it has electoral maps with swing states/ties, and with no ties.
I wish that RCP was a little more user friendly. It's not search by state and it's not all-inclusive, so accessing certain states is a hit-or-miss proposition. Hopefully they'll fix that soon.

I'm going to pack it in for the night. See you tomorrow. Pleasant dreams.; June 05, 2008 2:21 AM
Amot said...: Well, now the count of delegates is over, it is time to start counting 'electors'. I know many sites follow the possible outcome, and so what? Many were counting delegates, but DCW became the most trusted in a short time. So I propose:

- reopen VP thread, or make a new one
- create 'Polls and Surveys' thread, where we can make projections about November
- create 'Lobbyist' thread - a place to tell stories about how each of the DCW readers is involved personally to attract new voters for Barack Obama, the next President of USA

I am thinking also of starting some more contests, including rewarded ones.; June 05, 2008 2:51 AM
Squirrel said...: Hippo,

I will go 2321.; June 05, 2008 4:27 AM
Peter said...: I think what has happen`t after tuesday have been as expected. I dit not expect Clinton to concede on tuesday, she should be allowed to think a couple of days. She defended Obama yesterday in front of the "pro-Israel" group and she did almost as a "surrogate". Clinton will endorse Obama saturday and I expect her to campaign with Obama in places like PA, OH and FL where she has a strong appeal. I think this unification process will be a lott easier than a lot of people fear.
Clinton has behaved quite good, no convention talk at all and Obama finished his primary campaign with a really good speech which people talk about.

At the same time McCain had a TERRIBLE speech, his "new" slogan was a copy of Obama, he copied Obama "change" message and the green background... Who made that decision?

In addition to that, McCain have "misspoken" several times the last week, several factual errors. I think he could be a "gaffe-machine" and his "experience" message will be destroyed if he continue to make factual errors like he have.

I think this "healing" process will be perfect. The "frustration"-effect will weaken fast in the next couple of months. I think Clinton and former Clinton surrogates (now Obama surrogates) will campaign HEAVY for Obama and that is needed for this healing process to be fast.

Regarding VP, Clinton is NOT out of the picture, but any talk of choosing a VP within the next couple of weeks is just nonesense.
Clinton should campaign heavy for Obama to prove herself worthy and other candidates for VP should do the same. They should be tested as surrogates in the next couple of months. Choosing Clinton will not be a weak decision, but choosing Clinton NOW, will be a weak decision.; June 05, 2008 6:06 AM
Emit R Detsaw said...: Morning Hipp - I'll take 2317; June 05, 2008 7:12 AM
mumblin said...: well... the arabs are pretty pissed off with obama.
so are at least some of us europeans..
I guess you yanks are the same after all.. no matter how much you talk about change.
I sincerely pray that this idiot (obama) has not given fuel to the extremists by aligning with NAZI israel so strongly.
Its a sad state of affairs when your leaders have to pander to the zionists to get elected.
Let me remind you, 9/11 came DUE to your support for israel, whatever you like to believe.
We had our own 7/7 here, but we KNOW why it happened, at least we don't lie to ourselves and brand the dissenters with traitor badges.
GROW THE F*** up you stupid yanks.; June 05, 2008 7:21 AM
Emit R Detsaw said...: Hi Aunt Jean,

I can understand the thought process that picking a different female would appear a slighting of Clinton, but I think that depends on the female. If it was another female senator like McCaskel (sp), I could see your point. But, if it was someone that was closer to Obama's "Change" message, or bringing in a Governor type, then I don't feel that it is for the purpose of a slap in the face.

We will have to wait and see, but I think there might be a few surprise names being considered. One I heard last night was Caroline Kennedy. Wouldn't that open eyes. ;o)

I still like Sebelius or Strickland. Just don't like the idea of depleting the Senate of the good senators that will be needed to write and fight for the bills that will be needed to change the economy, health care, education system, and other things around.; June 05, 2008 7:23 AM
ed iglehart said...: Uncle John, Namaste

"He also backed Israel's claim to sole possession of Jerusalem as its capital. Premature, in my view.

There is some hope for the Palestinians here."

East Jerusalem is being swamped by illegal settlements. It is daft to hold out hope to the Israelis for an un-divided Jerusalem - and deeply unjust for the Palestinians (s, what else is new?)

As to "some hope", maybe, but pretty slim. I do hope for more, once the election is secured (cynical, hopeful old me!)

My perspective a primer.

Salaam/Shalom/Shanthi/Dorood/Peace
-ed; June 05, 2008 7:28 AM
ed iglehart said...: Wolfie,

"What is the difference between "suspending" jer race and dropping out?"

Money! She can suspend and keep raising money, but that ends if she quits. Simple, but I suspect you already knew that.

;-)
ed; June 05, 2008 7:42 AM
suzihussein22 said...: morning y'all...I had a post almost typed out but I hit the wrong button, I'll have to try again this evening.

May the blessing of light be on you today-Scottish

Beannachd Dia dhuit
Scotsgaelic; June 05, 2008 7:48 AM
Mug said...: Lee wrote:
I voted for Hillary in the primaries because I believe she would make the best president.

I am voting for McCain in the general because I believe he would make a better president than Obama.

I am not voting for Obama because he does not have the experience or judgment to be president.
___________________________________

Here's a recap of what you wrote. Since Obama beat Hillary in the primary, I'll vote for all the policies that Hillary was against while she campaigned.

Experience is overrated. Just because a person has been doing a particular job for 20 years doesn't mean they've done it well. Experience can improve one's abilities over time but in every aspect of life, whether in professional sports or professional politics, there are those who start out with more natural abilities than more experienced people are able to achieve in their lifetime.

Either you've always been a republican pretending to be a democrat while attempting to promote division in the democratic party or you're wallowing in bitterness over the outcome of the primary election. Either way, I hope you get over it.; June 05, 2008 7:48 AM
Mug said...: Sorry but I'm mad...

Lee wrote: "I am not voting for Obama because he does not have the experience or judgment to be president."

Please give some examples to back up this claim. I've been to the Senate website and I've seen how Obama and McCain have voted in the senate over the last 4 years. There is no doubt in my mind who has the better judgement and it's certainly not McCain.; June 05, 2008 7:52 AM
ed iglehart said...: Justin,

"I've heard it's legendary."

Interesting turn of phrase!
;-)
ed; June 05, 2008 8:12 AM
RobH said...: Hello Leah and Hippo,

Somehow you missed my entry into the contest.
I possted yesterday (AM EDT I think).

I've got 2222 in the pool.

Yamaka's got daquiris in the pool.
No, that would be Leah...; June 05, 2008 8:23 AM
ed iglehart said...: Mumblin,

We must wait and see, but this has been my only real reservation about Obama from the start.

You ask when the Americans are going to "wake up", or somesuch, but we Europeans also have to wake up to the reality of just how toxic and powerful the AIPAC influence is in USA.

A good, serious (if lengthy) discussion of the situation

Assalaam 'alaikum wa rahmatullaahi wa barakaatuhu
Peace, God's mercy and blessings be upon you; June 05, 2008 8:28 AM
Mug said...: Jimmy Carter said last night that "choosing Clinton as Vice President would be the worst mistake Obama could ever make." No offense to Hillary but the divisiveness of the primaries would be a power weapon for McCain in the GE. However, choosing Sebelius would be an olive branch to the feminists who believe it's all about the gender, rather than the person. Also, Sebelius brings alot to the table, especially the ablility to reach across party lines. Being from Ohio, I personally think Ted Strickland would be a mistake. I don't think he's well liked in Ohio, especially by the Republicans.; June 05, 2008 8:36 AM
Mug said...: Mumblin,

I'd just like to point out that the term "Nazi-Israel constitutes an oxy-moron.; June 05, 2008 8:51 AM
bluedogdem said...: "...But the Clinton's - they'll stay until the last footlight fizzles and pops, and then we'll have to wrestle them to the floor of the stage." Peggy Noonan in her book "The Case Against Hillary Clinton".

Sen. Clinton, you lost, the last footlight has fizzled and popped, so please stop being a poor looser and endorse Sen. Obama. You lost because you could not muzzle Bill clinton. You lost because you ran an inept campaign and I refer you to the recent Times article. Your supporters should be angry at you for such incompetence.

Both of your major undertakings have ended in failure, national health and the presidential bid. Further, you can't even beat an inexperienced freshman senator of color with a name like Obama and a minister like Wright, yet you would have us believe that you're more electable. Such false drivel!; June 05, 2008 9:10 AM
mumblin said...: No MUG, it does not.; June 05, 2008 9:11 AM
JayW said...: Do I win something for having my picture on the front page?; June 05, 2008 9:16 AM
Peter said...: Voting for McCain over Obama, is almost the same as voting for McCain over Clinton. Obama and Clinton agree on most issues, but McCain disagree with both on most issues.

I believe that many of the people who voted for Obama and say they would choose McCain over Clinton are sexist.
I believe that many of the people who voted for Clinton and would choose McCain over Obama are racist.

I don`t find many reasons for supporting McCain over Obama if you voted for Clinton in the primary and intended to do so in the fall.

It is ok to be frustrated because you supported Clinton and she lost. But the fact is that Clinton support Obama now and will work for him. The reason is that they have a similar view on most issues.; June 05, 2008 9:33 AM
Keryl said...: 2450!; June 05, 2008 9:45 AM
Keryl said...: This whole Hillary or a man thing strikes me as so typical. Why must women always be so unsupporting of each other. In my many years in Corporate America, it strikes me how often times women are not the best supporters of each other. If it's not Hillary it won't be because she's a woman. And she should be the one advocating for a different woman on the ticket.; June 05, 2008 9:49 AM
apissedant said...: beryl,
Amusing. I went on a tirade immediately after she did that complaining of her using her delegates as pawns and bargaining chips... basically... I agree ;); June 05, 2008 9:55 AM
stopOBAMAnow said...: Hello There:

Obamaniacs: Congratulations.

Hillary won the Popular Votes by 176K and BHO won the PD by 126.

The highly corrupted Democratic Party sided with the Minority Candidate, leaving the Majority at the back of the Bus.

Consequently, BHO won the Nomination.

Are you all happy?

Your won the Battle. But the War is sure to go to McCain.

Don't drink too much Champagne, you half naked clowns.

In Democracy, the Popular Votes Count.

The Day of Retribution is coming closer everyday, my friends.

Get ready for the Day of Judgment, for all the trash talks and belligerent behavior.

BHO is the least vetted, least experienced hustler. Too Risky for America.

BHO = Bush = Disaster. Stop Obama Now.; June 05, 2008 10:07 AM
JayW said...: Hey stopobamanow/yam...

You are just silly. McCain cant even remember his own name without one of his handlers around.

The only thing McCan't has going for him is his wife... at least she isnt too hard on the eyes. Other than that, he is just a diaper wearing old has been... and almost a never was.; June 05, 2008 10:21 AM
Mug said...: Bluedodgem,

According to news reports last night and this morning, Senator Clinton plans to formally drop out this Saturday and endorse Barack Obama.

Better late than never.; June 05, 2008 10:21 AM
Mug said...: The amusing thing about McCain is when he says something he thinks is profound, he puts a huge grin on his face. When he sees that nobody is applauding, his grin disappears in half a second. What a sad old clown. His campaign is starting out just the way I thought it would. He avoids giving any details about how he plans to improve anything and spends all his breath talking about why people should not vote for Obama. Typical republican scare tactics.; June 05, 2008 10:27 AM
jpsedona said...: With respect to the draft & GI bill...

The most recent politician to call for a draft with Rangel, Hillary's staunch supporter. He introduced a bill in 2003 & again in 2006.

As far as the new GI bill is concerned, the current recruitment numbers show all branches of the military hitting better than 100% (active duty & reserve).

So, the question are: 1) if you grant much higher benefits will retention rates go down? 2) are those loses in retention offset by increased recruiting because of the benefits?

Two ancillary factors: 1) Without retention, the skill level of the military will decrease 2) The budget on defense spending will go up.; June 05, 2008 10:43 AM
apissedant said...: Leah,
I agree with the idea of waiting awhile, and then letting Hillary "help" come up with the idea for a female. Exactly the idea I was trying to get at.

independent,
Agree with pretty much everything said. Webb has too many negatives and the like.

Hippo,
Bill Bradley is the man that first made me interested in politics, his campaign was the first I ever volunteered for. Obama is the first campaign that ever truly reminded me of what Bradley made me feel, and I would hope Obama would mold him into a position somewhere.

mug,
agreed

keryl,
That is something I mentioned earlier too. I find it ironic and amusing that women are typically the first to discriminate against and discredit other women. I honestly will never understand that.; June 05, 2008 10:51 AM
Squirrel said...: SOBnow,

You say in a democracy the popular vote count, actually no they do not, what actually counts are the rules!

EVen as far back as ancient Athens it was the rules that counted first and foremost, so once again you talk a total load of uneducated GOP crap.; June 05, 2008 10:55 AM
jpsedona said...: As far as Obama's VP choice is concerned...

The longer he waits, the less anticipation that there will be that it's Hillary. He doesn't want her (or more likely doesn't want to be carrying Bill around as baggage).

His campaign team has been pretty bright about how to handle strategy so far. They've immediately announced a VP selection committee. They will vett names but time will pass.

The MSM will be speculating about choices for the two months. This will promote other good choices for Obama. Hillary will fade into the background. Without the spotlight, it will appear that she is not likely to be picked.

High profile Obama supporters who do not like the idea of Hillary on the ticket will spin that there are "so many good choices and that 'of course' Hillary would be on anyone's short list.

The Obama campaign will also try to determine who McCain will pick. But since McCain chooses second, he could surprise folks. If McCain and a top VP choice are seen together a lot, the speculation will be high that that person is the choice.

So, McCain campaigning with Romney a lot in the summer, might lead folks to believe that Romney is the choice to help win MI & conservatives. Obama makes a choice of VP for VA, PA or OH (or foreign policy experience, etc.); then McCain chooses Rice or Hutchinson as a surprise choice.

I am highly doubtful that Obama would announce a choice much before the convention. There might be some trial abloons floated in the MSM (and some polls) but we are not likely to hear anything until mid-August at the earliest.; June 05, 2008 10:56 AM
ed iglehart said...: My Fellow Americans,......

Jumping the gun?
;-)
ed; June 05, 2008 11:03 AM
dsimon said...: Yamaka: On Social Security--You can also look at as the premium you pay for the benefit you collect some years later!

I don't think so. There is no guarantee of any future benefit. A premium is something you pay for a contract that guarantees payment under certain circumstances. I expect that the societal interests of helping the elderly through retirement will continue, but that's not the same as paying a premium for your own benefits.

My point is there is no money left any where to pay for the Universal health care w/o finding new revenue either from new taxes and/or eliminating some existing programs/agencies or something.

Agreed. And both Clinton's and Obama's plans have payment mechanisms: allowing the tax cuts on the wealthiest Americans to expire, and savings through increased efficiency that the programs would bring (we spend far more on administration than our peer nations).; June 05, 2008 11:08 AM
apissedant said...: jpsedona,
To the military. I live in the most military heavy section of the country. We have the world's largest naval base, along with several other naval bases, two army bases, and an air force base. I am friends with, coworker with, neighbor with, and classmate with many many military. Retention is being artificially kept up. Like I mentioned earlier, most military kids don't know how to spend their money. They go from dirt broke to a nice paycheck and great credit, and they get financially stuck into staying into the military. Reenlistment bonuses have also doubled over the past several years. The kids that are staying in, are staying in because they are broke and have no choice. The smart ones that saved money and invested wisely are leaving in droves. We are retaining the ones we want least in most cases.

Second, the armed services are artificially meeting their numbers. Every branch of service has reduced their requirements for entry over the past six years. They are allowing kids to come in, that they have in the past judged not smart enough, or too unreliable, or criminal. This is another problem, we're recruiting the ones we don't want in the service.

This is not across the board. There are many service men and women that love their jobs and their country. They are smart and motivated, and do a great job. I am just pointing out that the trend is currently in the wrong direction. 9/11 was a great boost for about a year, but this Iraq war, and the talks about Iran are terrible.

We have shown repeatedly through this administration that we don't care about these kids, that we are just using them for our protection. Now we have an opportunity to actually give them what the recruiters and the tv commercials have been advertising we would give them for years. I think it is important to follow through, and actually do what we promised.
Ask those that joined, and most will tell you that the recruiter told them that the VA would pay for your whole college, and a million more miles. They never said anything about charging you 1200 or 1800 dollars for those benefits. They also never mentioned that the VA payments would be LESS than your tuition payments, so you would still have to magically come up with several thousand more dollars. I don't want people working for me that don't want to be working for me. I want these kids to know what they have coming to them, and to know that they can trust our government. 90% of the guys I served with were counting down the days until their contract expired. Once the 1 year mark hit, they would literally say, 365 more days, 364 more days, 100 more days. Is that really how we want those defending our nation to be thinking?; June 05, 2008 11:09 AM
apissedant said...: jpsedona and others...

SOMETHING I REALLY DON'T UNDERSTAND. I lived in Michigan for the first 18 years of my life. I have now lived outside of Michigan for about 9 years. I have never heard of Mitt Romney until last year. I follow politics, and I love history, and I had no idea who he was. Why does the fact that his dad was popular in Michigan have anything to do with him? Why do so many Michiganders like him? I really don't get this. Is it older people who were actually around during his father's tenure? Even still, why do people like osmosis experience? There are some things about normal human thinking I will never understand.; June 05, 2008 11:13 AM
jpsedona said...: apiss,

you said: "I follow politics, and I love history, and I had no idea who he [Romney] was."

How many governors could you name today? You're more likely to know the names that are in your geographic area in addition to the ones always on the news.; June 05, 2008 11:24 AM
RobH said...: I would love to have some credentialed, or otherwise creditable, practicing psychologist, social therapist, or psychiatrict, go back through this thread, and do a case study on Yamaka/StopObamaNow.

Yamaka orignally presents as a raving lunatic.
Then he creates his parallel character/second personality in StopObamaNow.
Then Yamaka pretends to undergo an instant conversion.

Now we're left with may posters commending Yamaka for being a "stand-up" guy, while his alternate version continues to spew BS on the thread.

What's with that?

Shall we chum up to Yamaka (or SONow) and encourage his potential schizophrenia?

Shall we invite Yamaka to perform an intervention on SONow?

Shall we attempt to convince SON of our position, and "waste" another two months?

Shall we invite SON to beat it?

Will his head explode?

Thoughts?; June 05, 2008 11:25 AM
RobH said...: Jos. Goebbels, indeed.....; June 05, 2008 11:25 AM
apissedant said...: I hate the complaints about social security. They keep track of every single dollar we give them. They record it to properly decide how much to give us in the future. The money we put in is not just magically going out to pay for retiree benefits. We literally have treasury bonds for the money placed into social security. These are great bonds that people often invest in on their own. Yes, this means the government borrowed our money to pay for other bills that we accumulated... so?
Last time I checked, the average social security retiree got 1% annual interest on what they paid into the system. THAT IS ACTUALLY REALLY GOOD!
Let me explain... social security is a government run insurance program. If we get injured and can't work, it pays out. If we die, it pays out to our minor children and our spouse.
Social Security is the ONLY insurance that I actually MAKE money on! Every other insurance I pay gives me less back then I put in. I have dumped about 20k on car insurance, and I have gotten 4k back. I have dumped 3k in home insurance, and gotten 0 back. Every insurance I have ever had, I have ended up losing money on. Social Security is the ONLY insurance where the average recipient will actually turn a profit.

Also, social security is not supposed to pay for retirement. It is a safety net, just in case all other investments, pensions, and plans fail. If all of this occurs, you will still get enough money to live, not live well, but live. If you are depending on it to retire, you're an idiot.

Lastly, by the current estimates, it is good until around 2040. Every ten years they talk about it dying out and not covering expenses, and every ten year it survives, with a very slight adjustment.

Social security also has nothing to do with UHC, so why it is brought up in the same sentence I don't understand. The fact is, no one is advocating a current, immediate plan of government run health care. Many would eventually like this, but not immediately. Whenever new expenditures are created, a tax should be created along side of it to pay for that new expenditure. That is the Democratic fiscally responsible way. Only Republicans talk about how it will magically pay for itself. Democrats say, "yes, there will be an increase in taxes to pay for this. It will cost you more money now. The thing is, in 10 years, you will end up with higher income, better health, and a safer country. We think the immediate investment is worth that long term goal."

Several journalists, authors, and advocacy groups have done countless studies talking about the unnecessary missed work days that cost our economy because of poor health care. They have also done studies showing how a little preventative health care can save us billions if we don't fix the problem while it is small. Someone early compared it to fixing their car or their house. Makes sense to me. Getting an oil change saves me 2-3 miles per gallon if I do it regularly. Why did I wait 6 months to finally get it done? It cost me 20 bucks, but over the course of two months, I would have saved about 60. That was stupid of me. It is stupid of us to not invest money in preventing small problems from becoming huge ones.; June 05, 2008 11:27 AM
apissedant said...: jpsedona,
Yeah, I'll grant you that I do not follow state and local politics too much. I really don't have a geographic area, which is part of the problem. In 10 years, I've lived in 5 states. By next year I will be able to say I've lived in 5 states and 2 different countries in 10 years. Rather hard to keep up with all of that.

My point was rather that if I don't know, how could regular people possibly know? Everyone that sees my bookshelf rolls their eyes and calls me a nerd. No one in my class the other day realized that a Fox News correspondent had jokingly talked about killing Obama. How can they possibly know a governor from 40 some odd years ago?; June 05, 2008 11:31 AM
apissedant said...: robh,
cute. I think it is possible that Stop is just a friend of Yam's. They have talked quite similarly in the past, and their arrival and departures are always oddly timed. There is some sort of relationship there, though I do not know if they are the same person for sure.

What I find odd is the grammar and spelling in Yam's posting. He originally couldn't type to save his mother's life, and now his posting is as good as anyone's. What's with that?; June 05, 2008 11:34 AM

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Tuesday, April 01, 2008

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