Democratic Convention Watch: Open Thread

Tuesday, April 01, 2008

Open Thread

WE'VE MOVED! Democratic Convention Watch is now at http://www.DemocraticConventionWatch.com

Who's going to win, who has a better chance against McCain, or whatever else is on your mind.

We have decided to stop allowing anonymous comments. Not because we don't like reading what people have to say but because Blogger has introduced a new "feature" that makes you go to a second page when the number of comments go over 200.

It's very easy to set up a Google account so that you can continue commenting.

And please be excellent to one another. We do not accept name calling or any attacks on our commenters. Any objectionable comments will be deleted. Try to be civil.

Thanks!

New Open Thread here
Previous Open Thread here

2132 comments:

«Oldest ‹Older 1401 – 1600 of 2132 Newer› Newest»

ed iglehart said...: Keryl,

It's up now
, but will the Mods (who are as Gods) allow it to remain?...

Who can say?
;-)
ed; June 05, 2008 11:50 AM
Annette M said...: StopObamaNow wrote:
>>In Democracy, the Popular Votes Count<<

I agree. Hillary has every right to brag about her 320,000+ popular votes in Michigan.

Kicked Obama's butt. 320,000 to zero.

Odd, though that she doesn't brag about her 230,000+ UNpopular votes in Michigan.

Again, she kicked Obama's butt. 230,000 to zero.

It's impressive that a voter takes the time to examine a candidate, and make an informed decision to use his "vote" as his "voice". It is clear. THESE are the specific values he shares.

It's even more impressive for a voter to do all of that when he knows that his vote won't officially, technically count. What a horrid concept. Again, his voice is clear. He knows it won't be counted, but he knows somebody heard him. Loud and clear. It's worth driving over to the polls just to make sure my candidate knows I support her.

But for a voter to come out knowing that he does not even have the option to have his voice heard, can only mean one thing -- his "voice" is restricted to saying that he does NOT share the platform of the opponents.

Whether the voters who voted "Undecided" were Edwards fans or Obama fans or anyone else's fans can never be determined. I can see the reasoning behind not giving them to Obama.

These votes can ONLY be interpreted as "Anti-Hillary" votes.

Funny she doesn't brag about beating Obama's butt in that particular count.

Annette ;); June 05, 2008 11:57 AM
Siroco said...: NEW YORK -- The Democratic National Committee will no longer accept contributions from registered federal lobbyists or political action committees, Sen. Barack Obama's campaign announced.
The move signals that Obama is beginning to assert himself as party leader, now that he has secured the nomination, and will seek to assure that the broader party machinery "conforms to all of his standards of openness and transparency," said campaign spokeswoman Linda Douglass.
Obama also is expected to overhaul the DNC staff in coming weeks, including by dispatching one of his senior strategists, Paul Tewes, to run the organization.; June 05, 2008 11:59 AM
RobH said...: apissedant,

I'm no shrink, but it is DEFINITELY the same person.

When SON first "arrived", and many here addressed Yam aying "we get",
he said "I don't know this SON", not "he's my friend/associate.

SON's arrival after Yam's suppossed departure (which fell through after challenge) was just tto pat.

Their similarities in conten,style, and delivery fail the smell test for "disguise."; June 05, 2008 11:59 AM
stopOBAMAnow said...: "once again you talk a total load of uneducated GOP crap."

squirrel:

I want to remind you that in 2004 Kerry got nearly 59 million votes but still he lost the WH because, he got only 251 EVs.

So far, BHO got less than 18 million votes and Hillary got more than 18 million votes. Each vote should count in very very close Election.

I see this condescending "Uneducated" elitist crap in you, your fellow BHO supporters and in BHO himself. Remember, 60% of the American Electorate is Non-College goers - your definition of "uneducated" - this attitude is your Achilles Heel. GOP knows it, from the days of PA Primary.

Folks, since PA Primary the Real Game changed: Pastor Wright clearly underscored the serious character flaw, the credibility gap of BHO. His judgment is woefully poor. Then came "the bitterness" comment, which exposed his elitist attitude against the American Blue Collar.

Americans woke up and see the true "color" of BHO: An Elitist Bigot.

If you look at the data, since TX Primary, Sen Clinton won more votes and more PDs. Even on June 3rd, she won the SD in BHO's heartland.

I repeat again, women are 51% of the Electorate, and Non-College educated Americans are 60% of the total. BHO gets fewer votes in this group. Do you see the Mother of ALL Problems, you the Elitists, for your Messiah of the Minority?

Now, tell me how in the world BHO could win WH, when Kerry couldn't in 2004?

Tell me Squirrel, when NH and PR moved their Primaries against the "Rule", the corrupt RBC/DNC gave "permission". But, then why didn't they permit MI and FL? Isn't this called "Selective Discrimination"? What was the basis of this prejudice/bias in the "Rules"?

In short, "Rules" you talk about is nothing but the expression of discrimination by the Rule Makers of the Democratic Party, a Party which is terribly undemocratic, extremely autocratic and masterly arrogant. Case in point, the way they conducted the RBC Meeting: Totally autocratic.

The Judgment Day is in November, and the Day of Retribution is fast approaching! Get Ready.
-------------------------------

Folks:

I am not Yam, who is a Hillary supporter - a Democrat going to TX State Democratic Convention this weekend at Austin.

I left the darn Party after Reid/Pelosi screwed everything. What did they do to stop the War in Iraq? Nothing. I am now working against the undemocratic Democratic Party.

Therefore, don't confuse me with Yam, who has quickly changed his tune in less than 24 h!!

For Yam, all this is a Game/Blood Sports! Once the bell is rung and the time is up, he wants to hug and kiss the Enemy!

Not me! I hold life long grudges against my Enemies: BHO, his "Elitist Supporters" and the undemocratic Democratic Party.

Now Yam is you guy. Not me!!

We will see you in Nov.

Like Kerry, Mondale, Dukakis and Carter - the perennial losers. Follow Carter's Ideas, that's good for GOP!

BHO = Carter = Incompetence.

BHO = WBush = 9/11 = Disaster.

BHO = Disaster.

Stop Obama Now. For he is ObBush!; June 05, 2008 12:04 PM
jpsedona said...: apiss,

you said: "90% of the guys I served with were counting down the days until their contract expired. Once the 1 year mark hit, they would literally say, 365 more days, 364 more days, 100 more days"

So if people sign-up primarily for full benefits of the new GI bill, they WON'T be counting down to the end?; June 05, 2008 12:08 PM
apissedant said...: jpsedona,
I'm not saying that, I'm saying give them what they were promised. There are tons of problems, and it will fix a small one. Plenty of people will still being counting, don't get me wrong. Maybe those that stay in will be better leaders who are staying in for better reasons, and they'll have less problems with crappy Chiefs and first classes.

Right now they know our government doesn't really care about them. This breeds resentment and counting down, this will be a small gesture that will help a little.; June 05, 2008 12:23 PM
Beryl said...: "This whole Hillary or a man thing strikes me as so typical. Why must women always be so unsupporting of each other. In my many years in Corporate America, it strikes me how often times women are not the best supporters of each other. If it's not Hillary it won't be because she's a woman. And she should be the one advocating for a different woman on the ticket."

AGREED!!!

As a woman currently leading others in corporate america, it really bothers me how we can be our own worse enemies. I understand not wanting another woman who has different fundamental views but this is not the case. Another woman with like core values should be acceptable because we need a functioning administration and a winning ticket.
1. A ticket with Bill involved with all of his baggage and lack of transparency will hurt us with independents (like me).
2. We do not need to answer to all of the HRC attack ads that the RNC will play over and over.
3. Obama's judgment and leadership ability will be questioned by those who feel that the Clinton's bullied him into putting her on the ticket.

HRC loyalists need to use their HEADS as well as their HEARTS when making political decisions. Yes, you love HRC. (Been there, done that.) Love her despite of her current feelings of loss. Love the positive things HRC stands for and her hard fought battles which will make having a woman in the WH -- even as a VP -- possible! Love her to ensure the Supreme Court will have the proper representation in the coming years.

Love but also THINK!

(Ok, I'm done for now -- back to work.); June 05, 2008 12:42 PM
ed iglehart said...: Webb speaks out!

Worth reading in full, but here's a wee taste.

"Webb has stayed religiously neutral throughout the Democratic primary, but is seen as a natural complement to an Obama presidency. Beyond reaching a set of voters with whom the presumptive Democratic nominee has had difficulties (working class whites), the Virginia Democrat brings with him military and foreign policy experience, and the ability to say he was against the Iraq war (as well as the first Persian Gulf War) before it was launched.

"You don't want to be an occupying power in that part of the world," he said. "It flames the tensions."

"There are, of course, some red flags. The Senator has been a critic of the Democratic Party in the past, having previously served in the Reagan administration but never in an overtly political capacity. Moreover, his appeal to female voters is complicated by past remarks he made questioning the promotion of females at the U.S. Naval Academy and referring to the investigation into the Navy's "Tailhook" sexual harassment scandal as a "witch hunt" -- statements for which he has apologized."

salaam, etc.
ed; June 05, 2008 12:44 PM
ed iglehart said...: It came from outer space!
;-)
ed; June 05, 2008 1:17 PM
Mug said...: My favorite video about McCain.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLfsG8XKWfw; June 05, 2008 1:23 PM
stopOBAMAnow said...: "Whether the voters who voted "Undecided" were Edwards fans or Obama fans or anyone else's fans can never be determined. I can see the reasoning behind not giving them to Obama."

annette:

This is exactly the point.

BHO left the name in FL for some blah blah reason, but voluntarily removed it in MI.

When he removed the name from the ballot in MI voluntarily, this amounted to NOT wanting the MI to vote for him!

Hillary got 55%, the "Uncommitted" was 40% and three others got 5%.

What was the logic to give ALL the "uncommitted" to BHO (when we knew there were 3 more who removed their names voluntarily) plus 4 more PDs stolen from Hillary, as proposed by the MI Party?

This MI Party was the Villain who committed the Original Sin. The RBC/DNC hugged and kissed this Villain and punished Hillary! Does this make any sense to anyone here?

This is my take: On Jan 15, when the voters voted "Uncommitted"" that's exactly they meant, keep it "Uncommitted" period. At best only about 1/4 of it could belong logically to BHO, nothing more.

If you give BHO 60K from MI, Hillary leads with 116 K votes, as per line 3 and 4 of RCP.

She remains the Majority Candidate and BHO is the Minority Candidate.

The undemocratic DNC coronated BHO! That's the pathos of this Primary Season.

The Day of Retribution is fast approaching.

BHO = WBush = Inexperienced = Disaster.

Stop Obama Now. He is Obabush!; June 05, 2008 1:42 PM
Hippolytus said...: Squirrel (2321), Emit R Detshaw (2317), Keryl (2450) and RoB H (2222):
Got your numbers. I'll include them when I update the list tonight. RobH, you're already listed; see my June 5 post at 1:29 am.
If that post is incomplete or if anyone else wants a piece of this, just let me know. Polls close when we get to 50 remaining uncommitted supers or the end of this week, whichever comes first.; June 05, 2008 1:44 PM
Beryl said...: Can I play? If so: 2375; June 05, 2008 1:48 PM
Hippolytus said...: robh,
I'm in a quandry. Perhaps I have been taken in by a sociopath or similarly deranged fellow (if, indeed, Yamaka/oba stop woman is a male).
I guess I'll continue to play nice with Yam and ignore the other wretched personality, on the theory that bad behavior should not be rewarded. Perhaps if oba stop woman is ignored, he/she/it will go away. I don't know, that may makes things worse for the poor puppy. Maybe when his/her/its fantasy squeeze (Hillary) endorses Obama, the evil personality will go away. Are will that drive him/her/it into deeper psychosis? There are no easy answers, are there?; June 05, 2008 1:58 PM
stopOBAMAnow said...: Guys:

On Saturday Hillary is conceding to BHO, and she will "just say" she supports the Nominee.

She and her staunch supporters ARE terribly hurt: they feel the SDs have stabbed her at the back.

Now it's her turn to stab their Nominee back! Hate begets hate!

Bulk of the Hillary supporters (about 15 million) will be on the sidelines, unlike Yam who quickly became "Friend of Barack"! Yam, are you a FOB, Bill or Barack? Or Both. How could that be, my friend?

This 15 million will be the difference between the winner and the loser in the Fall.

BHO gets stabbed by these 15 million Hillary voters; his political career, the broad grin and the "Rock Star" and the BigMoneyBag of the Democratic Party will be just history!

That will be the beginning of the end of the Democratic Party for another at least 8 years.

That's the Retribution, and the Revenge is very Sweet!; June 05, 2008 2:00 PM
Hippolytus said...: beryl,
You're in. Good luck.; June 05, 2008 2:00 PM
Hippolytus said...: Oh, boy, he/she/it has gone off the deep end.; June 05, 2008 2:02 PM
Mug said...: Well, he always was a couple of sandwiches shy of a picnic.; June 05, 2008 2:05 PM
Siroco said...: I just resubscribed tho this thread. Now I remember why I droped it. oh well....

While Im here, you might like this item:
This has been posted by Odessa from Colorado Springs, CO.earlier today. I thought you might want to read it

"HILLARY SUPPORTERS AT THEIR BEST
Yesterday I had the honor of attending the 2008 State Assembly Convention in Colorado Springs, CO where I reside. I was there to sell the book Peace Admist Conflict, by Author Rene Reid. Needless to say I had a venue table. I shared this table with a woman from Denver, CO that had nothing but OBAMA everthing, tshirts, buttons, pictures, mouse pads, just to name a few..The posters also were all OBAMA. This is too funny.
Although everyone was very respectful to one another (Hillary/Obama Fans) it struck me kind of odd that all the Hillary people were grabbing the free Obama stuff. There was a gentleman selling posters and to boost his sales he started handing out free ones to everyone on the floor. He came back and told me that he could not figure out why Hillary people were the ones snatching them up. He gave out approximately 150 free posters and he said over 80% of the people taking them had vote for Hillary gear on. So to see for myself I went in the Arena and he was so right...lol..I personally asked this lady with respect did she intend to burn it or keep it or what. Her exact words were and I quote. Well honey, I am going to the end no matter what, but I think you and I know both who our nominee will be when it's all over..she was very nice and she said that as long as we are democrats what does it matter. So you see...All the women that are saying they won't vote for OBAMA, are speaking for a small few..She also said she wanted to have some OBAMA signs when the time comes..I met quite a few Hillary supporters yesterday that were not at all bitter. Between setting up on Friday and being there alll day yesterday, I met a lot of them..and I can honestly say they were very polite and so was our supporters. Whew! I am truly tired but it was well worth it."; June 05, 2008 2:09 PM
JayW said...: Since everyone seems to be playing....
I'd like 2424; June 05, 2008 2:15 PM
RobH said...: Hippo,

yaeh, I saw that you had gotten me later. In strolling throught the posts, I naturally came to Leah's summary that inadvertantly excluded me at 12 something, before I came to you're summary at 1:29.

Hippo and appissedant (and anybody else sho wonders):

just read the last post from stobnow at 2PM. His inclusion of this term "BigMoneyBag", in his own writing....a favorite term of Yam's (though here he's not pretending to be an imitation of Yam).

Any who Hippo, I'm no professional, but clearly the guy's a major loon. It probably doesn't pay to keep encouraging the facade of Obama support, if the price is the spewing racial/sexist b.s. that comes as part of the deal.

IMO.; June 05, 2008 2:20 PM
Beryl said...: Thanks for that post frstan.

First, I'm not surprised to hear about Colorado women with their heads on straight. During our caucus, we had our share of HRC supporters but everyone was quite civil and friendly. We have great women in Colorado. ;)

Second, I believe that the RNC is fueling the fire of the fringe women who refuse to unite and they will continue this until November. Chris Matthews called Pat B. on it last night when Pat described the importance of giving Hillary and her supporters due respect and time to heal. Even Pat had to laugh about getting caught. Since when has he cared anything about the welfare of the Clintons?

Lastly, I'm new here but I've quickly caught on to certain anti-Obama posters. These are probably not a HRC supporters at all and I don't plan to feed RNC trolls.; June 05, 2008 2:23 PM
Vicki in Seattle said...: Question: clearly, some of us are continuing to track delegates. Where? the SD tracker is frozen as of 6/4 - is there a new one somewhere? I'll keep looking around, but it's not obvious to me, sorry. please and thanks!; June 05, 2008 2:36 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Vicki -

There is a delegate count on RealClearPolitics.com
on the right side of the front page.

Also there is a delegate count on BarackObama.com
on the right side of the page.

With as many endorsement there have been in the past two days it might take a bit for the numbers to catch up.

.; June 05, 2008 2:52 PM
Vicki in Seattle said...: actually, I'm thinking that it will pick up again on Saturday.; June 05, 2008 3:02 PM
tmess2 said...: Having to pick a new number, will take advantage of seeing the flood and bump up my pick to 2246.; June 05, 2008 3:15 PM
Meg said...: I'd like to play!! I'll go for 2368. Has Obama responded to the invitation by McCain for the first town hall meeting?

How many SD's will not endorse this week? Why? Hoping nobody will notice that they were too chicken to stand up and choose?; June 05, 2008 3:27 PM
Meg said...: Sorry. Hit the wrong key. 2268.; June 05, 2008 3:30 PM
apissedant said...: mug,
Good McCain video. 2 thumbs up. He's got my vote.; June 05, 2008 3:33 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Here is a GREAT website that has the Blue/Red electoral map with polls Obama/McCain.

Roll your mouse over the states to see the poll results.

http://www.electoral-vote.com/

Electoral Votes

Obama 287
McCain 227
Ties 24

.; June 05, 2008 3:34 PM
Richard said...: If it's not too late to get into the pool, I'd like 2385; June 05, 2008 3:35 PM
Mug said...: apissedant,

I hope that was sarcasm. =); June 05, 2008 3:37 PM
ed iglehart said...: Is 2323 available?
xx
ed; June 05, 2008 3:43 PM
Meg said...: Leah: Great site! Oh, you were very sweet to Aunt Jean the other day. Have we heard from her lately?; June 05, 2008 3:44 PM
Richard said...: Ahaha! Yamaka is now using his pseudonyms to criticize himself as a traitor to Clinton? Talk about disturbed.; June 05, 2008 3:50 PM
Emit R Detsaw said...: Time for the Moot Point of Order:

Not sure if anyone knows the facts, or even heard this, but if memory serves me correctly, there was a deal with Michigan where if 50% of their voters had voted Uncommitted, then they could apply to the DNC to have them seated. That was the reason Biden, Richardson, Obama, and one other person took their names off the ballot. They were trying to get the delegates seated.

I know Chuck Todd talked about it the night of their primary, but haven't been able to find it anywhere else.; June 05, 2008 3:51 PM
apissedant said...: emit,
Interesting, I had never heard that.

Leah,
The poll shows a tie in Indiana. If Obama wins Indiana, then I don't know, I guess I'll have to swallow my foot or something. I don't see McCain taking Michigan either, but I do have two feet.

mug,
That's right, you can't tell my tone of voice over the internet.... I guess you'll never know. ;); June 05, 2008 3:56 PM
apissedant said...: Does anyone else ever get a weird urge to bubble in the wrong box when they are in a voting booth? Sometimes I have to use two hands to make sure I choose the one I actually want. I have problems with always wanting to do what I know is wrong.; June 05, 2008 3:57 PM
RobH said...: apissedant,

Do you also have a desire to, or nightmares about, deliberately failing a lie detector test?; June 05, 2008 4:30 PM
Mike in Maryland said...: Last night I saw Lanny Davis on MSNBC (on 'Verdict with Dan Abrams'?). He was pushing his 'voteboth.com' website to try to force Clinton onto the ticket.

Well, I went to it today, and signed up!

I entered the following information:
First name: John
Last name: McCain
Email address: JohnMcCain@johnmccain.com
Zip Code: 22215

Do you think someone will figure out that someone was just havin' a bit of fun? And I wonder how many other people had the same idea?

VBG

I know. Someone is going to tell me I was bad. We shouldn't do things like that.

Tough. It was fun doing it.

Mike; June 05, 2008 4:37 PM
apissedant said...: robh,
No, but pulling fire alarms, and jumping out windows... all the catastrophic failures that you know you should avoid.; June 05, 2008 4:43 PM
Beryl said...: MSNBC has a scroll stating that Hillary is NOT seeking the VP spot.; June 05, 2008 4:47 PM
Emit R Detsaw said...: I lied on a lie detector test once. The guy said he couldn't tell if I was lying or telling the truth. He said I had a very active mind. LOL; June 05, 2008 4:55 PM
tmess2 said...: Weird question about our little contest (and I wonder what rule the other sites posting delegates will use), I saw an MSNBC post about Ted Strickland endorsing Obama for President. The terminology used by Strickland only clearly covered the general election. (Leaving open the possibility that he will still vote for Clinton in the general elction -- just like Clinton's endorsement on Saturday will probably leave open the possibility of her name being placed in nomination on the floor.) Are we going to be counting those as delegates who have declared for Obama?; June 05, 2008 5:09 PM
Hippolytus said...: tmess,
Strickland will be included only if he is included in the Obama site count.
_____
tmess, JayW, Emma, Richard, ed inglehart -- I have your entries, and I'll include them in the revised list that I'll post later this evening.
_______
To all,
No activity today; I assume that it is due to concerted observance of the date that Bobby was shot. I assume that there will be a flood tomorrow or on Saturday.; June 05, 2008 5:56 PM
suzihussein22 said...: Just in case we're taking ourselves too seriously :)-

http://abcnews.go.com/Video/playerIndex?id=5004510; June 05, 2008 5:59 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Hippolytus-

It is my guess that now that Obama has been named the nominee that we might not see everyone coming out like before.

If Senators, Reps, and Governors do switch over publicly to Obama it probably will not be until after Saturday when Hillary give her endorsement/unity speech.

Obama/Sebelius '08; June 05, 2008 6:00 PM
countjellybean said...: Matt posted this on the Endorsement Thread:

All right, folks, due to popular demand, we'll do a quick endorsement list this evening. We won't be updating our tables, but we'll include new numbers within the post. Thanks for all the appreciation today. - Matt; June 05, 2008 6:10 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Matt (of DCW) ALSO said:

Matt said...

And to answer a question earlier, we hope to have our first Electoral College preview up before the weekend is done.

.; June 05, 2008 6:38 PM
Annette M said...: Emit -- Regarding your "Moot Point of Order". You wrote:

"there was a deal with Michigan where if 50% of their voters had voted Uncommitted, then they could apply to the DNC to have them seated. That was the reason Biden, Richardson, Obama, and one other person took their names off the ballot. They were trying to get the delegates seated.

Here's what I found on the Michigan Democratic State Central Committee site. It's a pdf of their "Voter Guide" for that January 15th primary.

Nothing about the 50% benchmark; their instructions DO explain the danger of writing in a candidate (doesn't count toward delegates) rather than voting for "uncommitted" (does count)

But nothing in their rules about needing 50% ...

Here's the cut-and-paste (sorry if it ends up all run together in the post. I'm not good at cut-and-paste)

8. A vote for “uncommitted” is a vote to send delegates to the Democratic National
Convention who are not committed or pledged to any candidate.

Those delegates can
vote for any candidate they choose at the Convention.

9. Supporters of Joe Biden, John Edwards, Barack Obama and Bill Richardson are urged
to vote “uncommitted” instead of writing in their candidates’ names because write-in
votes for those candidates will not be counted under state law."

http://michigandems.com/Guide.pdf; June 05, 2008 6:51 PM
Miranda said...: Ant and I are practically neighbors. I live in Norfolk, and I can't look out my front door without seeing a member of the military. They are NOT happy people. Most are very young with very bad credit from going from broke to not necessarily getting good pay, but with the allotment system and the fact that if they don't pay the creditor goes to their command and they get in trouble, anyone will finance them no matter what their real ability to pay. They are mostly all broke. And even the responsible ones with families and housing are on food stamps. Here it is like the housing market crisis, but on basically anything they want. You can't look anywhere without seeing signs that say "Financing E-1 and up" And everything at the places that will finance them is poor quality or way over priced. We saw a place the other day with a bargain price for military members on a laptop computer. After financing it was only going to be 6999.78 for a basic model. They joined because there was nothing left in their town and the were promised big money, their college paid in full, and the opportunity to buy a home with a VA loan. They were all promised the exact job they wanted in the state they wanted and then once their name was on the paper the truth started leaking out.

We treat these people terribly in this country and the American public is blind to it in most instances. I see where they live and in some cases you wouldn't believe the conditions of the barracks and especially Navy housing. Recently they have been remodeling but before that it was disgraceful.

But living here, especially at the beginning of the war, used to make it harder to speak out. I was always one who just wanted everyone happy and I tried not to offend people. There was a real sense of tension when I would try to talk to people about things. Then I was discussing the war about five years ago with a co-worker and a member of our military--a chief, I might add--thanked me for speaking out. He told me that we have to be his voice because dissent is not allowed and they just have to do what they are told even when they know it isn't right. He told me that everyone he knew felt like they had been screwed from the broken promises to the war itself. He also told me he had planned on being a lifer. But now that they had sent him somewhere he had no business being in the first place, with only one more reenlistment to go he was leaving the military to go work for his brothers plumbing company--and he wasn't a plumber. From that point forward, I have felt that it was my duty to speak out for these people.

This GI bill would go a long way towards making up for some of these things that we have allowed to happen to these people. They don't trust us and we need to do something for them to show that we really do appreciate them. Webb is not a real charmer and I think that he would seem boring next to Obama. I am not saying that I don't like the guy, but from Va Kaine or Warner would be much better. Warner was loved and he has the look too, and unfortunately that is needed. Most people are not like us and don't pay attention. Regardless, I ramble...the bill should pass. We claim that our soldiers deserve the world. Bout time we were a little less talk. It is one of the best things I have seen from Webb.; June 05, 2008 7:06 PM
Oregon Dem said...: Stopobamanow:

You state that you were a democrat and then left the party - so you in all your wisdom decide to get on a democratic party website and slam democrats - hummm how much respect would you like us to bother to afford you???

For the rest of you - in case you did not know the answer to the sicko SON:

The "silly reason" the Senator Obama did not take his name off the ballot in FL was that FL has a law that says if you were not on the primary ballot in FL you could not be on the general election ballot in the fall.

MI has no such law, therefore there was no penalty for Obama to take his mane off the MI ballot, but there would have been a significant penalty had he taken his name off the FLA ballot, as the state would have had 100% of its votes cast for the republican automatically and all of FL EVs would automatically go for the repugnican; June 05, 2008 7:22 PM
Beryl said...: Dem said:
"You state that you were a democrat and then left the party - so you in all your wisdom decide to get on a democratic party website and slam democrats - hummm how much respect would you like us to bother to afford you???"

There are people who are paid to go to Dem websites and stir up trouble.

There are people who have nothing better to do than to go to Dem websites and stir up trouble.

These people should be ignored if they can't be banned.; June 05, 2008 7:34 PM
Mike in Maryland said...: Miranda,

This comment caught my eye:

They were all promised the exact job they wanted in the state they wanted

My step-father was a Korean War vet. He spoke of how several enlistees who were in basic training with him were promised by the recruiter that they would go to Germany, not Korea.

After basic, the soldiers were told to prepare to ship to Korea. When some protested that they were promised an assignment in Germany and that's the reason they enlisted, they were told that they would to to Germany on a plane, touch down, and then immediately take off and proceed to Korea. Thus the Army was keeping it's promise to send them to Germany.

Sixty years later, and the military is still making promises that it knows it will not keep, and knowing it had no intention of keeping the promises in the first place.

The military should know that it can't keep doing that. Otherwise it earns the enmity and distrust of just about everyone it might need a month or a year in the future.

Mike; June 05, 2008 7:35 PM
Oregon Dem said...: Beryl:

Indeed it has been reported that certain 527s paid ten cents per post by trolls to post in democratic websites during the last election....; June 05, 2008 7:37 PM
ed iglehart said...: Modesty forbids...

And some fun from John Stewart:
Audio book

What Happened?

Really?

MIFL Hunters

Thank the Lord for broadband!
;-); June 05, 2008 7:38 PM
suzihussein22 said...: backtracking a minute here-

vwis-12:11a.m.-the southern way-I don't know what state you're from, but at most he would've been expected to bow to her age(i.e. age before beauty) if it was strictly a southern thang, but he's not from the south. It seems like a Yale educatin would have overcome any quaint regional customs. That's just a bit of an observation.:)

mumblin sounded like one of McCain's pastors.

OR Dem-Thanks for clarifying the ramblings of son-y penn. Shame on me for thinking yamaka could be rational.

Matt and Oreo and countjellybean-Thank you.; June 05, 2008 7:38 PM
ed iglehart said...: Modesty forbids...

DURNED EXTRA CARRIAGE RETURNS!; June 05, 2008 7:43 PM
Kujo said...: Leah,

electoral-vote.com is a great web site, but going there for the last few elections.; June 05, 2008 7:44 PM
RobH said...: Kujo,

Agreed, it's a great site.
The way the map looks today is essentially the way I've hoped it would look in reasonable case scenario, with the exception of MI and VA (showing as red and tie today), which I think will come to us as well.

I don't think we'll carry IN which shows as a tie today, and I don't really hold much hope for the Carolinas. Don't know what to make of the deep south, you'd think we'd have some chances there, but the gap to cross may just be too great.

In any event with ties of VA going to Obama, IN going to McCain, and MI flipping from red to blue, the EV tally would be 317-221. Comfortable.

The strategy is just right. Inroads in the southern Rockies (NM & CO), and expanding the upper midwest gains (IO, MO) onto MN, WI, etc.; June 05, 2008 8:19 PM
apissedant said...: Miranda,
Completely agree. If you want someone to respect you, work for you, and do what is right, you have to be honest with them. You have to treat them with respect and give them what you promise.
If you don't, even if you're able to keep them around, it won't be for the right reason, and they won't work very hard.
By the way, if you're on a ship and not a submarine, you don't even get a barracks room. E4 and below are expected to live on the ship. They DEFINITELY don't advertise that part.; June 05, 2008 8:28 PM
apissedant said...: mike,
The plane never even touches down in Germany anymore. They just don't put the promises on paper, and these 17 year old kids aren't versed enough to make sure everything is in the contract. Later, publicly, they deny the promises, in private they just admit that recruiters are paid to lie.; June 05, 2008 8:31 PM
Emit R Detsaw said...: Thanks Annette M. Knew I had heard something. Getting too old to keep it all straight. ;o); June 05, 2008 9:03 PM
Richard said...: Hip: I would like 2285, not 2385 as I accidentally typed earlier. Oops.

I have a website with a forum which can be moderated and on which it is perfectly possible to ban racists and RNC trolls. Many of you are already posting there, but I welcome anyone else to join the discussion at http://www.democraticelections.org/forum/; June 05, 2008 9:11 PM
Independent Voter said...: WOW! Want to hear something really funny?

The race for the House seat of Rep. Vito Fossella (R-NY), whose personal scandals spurred his sudden retirement, just got a whole lot wackier as GOP candidate Francis "Frank" Powers Sr. is getting a new challenger: Libertarian candidate Francis "Fran" Powers Jr., his very own son.

Read the rest here!; June 05, 2008 9:15 PM
Independent Voter said...: Obama and Clinton are meeting right now. He pulled a bait and switch on the press, by putting them on the plane while he went over to her house. :); June 05, 2008 9:16 PM
Independent Voter said...: hmmmmmmmmmm,

WHERE THE HELL IS EVERYBODY? LOL!

Leah? Grey? Aunt Jean? MD Mike? It's still early?

Did everyone put off their partying until tonight?; June 05, 2008 9:29 PM
Meg said...: Indy:

There are no numbers to check!! I miss the excitement!; June 05, 2008 9:37 PM
Richard said...: Brilliant move on Obama's part. I'll be interested to hear what comes of it. I certainly hope it's not a VP announcement. *shudders*; June 05, 2008 9:37 PM
apissedant said...: glad to see you care independent... I don't see my name on the list.... *tear*; June 05, 2008 9:38 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: LOL... I'm here.

I'm perusing the web news and listening to MSNBC.

Wonder what's up with the Obama/Clinton meeting.

I'd like to be a fly on that wall!

They are probably just figuring out 'where' she will endorse him and how much money he is going to help her find to pay off her debt. Or he is helping her write her speech for Saturday ;)

I am hoping she will say something Saturday that she doesn't want to be his VP but that she would like for him to think about picking a woman ;)

Obama/Sebelius '08; June 05, 2008 9:39 PM
apissedant said...: richard,
I doubt it. Giving her VP would not only make him look weak and pushed around, but then going to her house to offer it instead of inviting her to his office or his house... just bad form; June 05, 2008 9:40 PM
Independent Voter said...: ah, CHIT! Sorry p'd ant! Of course you are always included!; June 05, 2008 9:42 PM
Independent Voter said...: You know what Leah, that would be great! I think that his "vetting" process would disqualify her but I don't think that she would really need to say it quite that way.; June 05, 2008 9:43 PM
Meg said...: Actually, I bet he called her and said, "Hey look. Can I come over?" I think it was a nice thing to do. Of course he always seems to do the nice thing. I wonder if he and Michelle fight.

I had a dream Tuesday night. I dreamed I was a superdelegate. I had the requisite superdelegate 3-ring binder. What does that mean?; June 05, 2008 9:45 PM
Independent Voter said...: p'd ant said, richard,
I doubt it. Giving her VP would not only make him look weak and pushed around, but then going to her house to offer it instead of inviting her to his office or his house... just bad form.

--------

Excellent point!; June 05, 2008 9:45 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: RealClearPolitics.com on the right side of the front page has removed all of the Clinton data. Now it only shows Obama and McCain.

It really feels like we've moved on now!!!

Obama/Sebelius '08; June 05, 2008 9:46 PM
Independent Voter said...: LOL emma! That's funny!

Sorry, I'm not a dream analyst.; June 05, 2008 9:46 PM
Meg said...: I forgot to mention that is the dream I was clutching the notebook, but I was lost.......; June 05, 2008 9:49 PM
Independent Voter said...: Could he be asking her what it's like being under sniper fire? You know he has been talking about going over to Iraq, perhaps she could give him some moves on how to dodge them?

Ok, COME ON! It's a joke!

Sorry, slapping my hand.; June 05, 2008 9:50 PM
Miranda said...: Mike - The Germany thing sounds exactly as is it. My ex-husband went home to PA for two weeks to work at the recruiting office. They told him what to do and say and he knew it was all bull. He ended up getting sent home early because he wouldn't do what they asked of him. There is also an incentive. They told him that they were going to pay for his trip home. Turns out they weren't going to actually pay for the trip--he would get "commission" for every person he got to sign up and he should have signed people up, because that would have paid for his trip.

Ant -- I know exactly what you are talking about. I went on a family day cruise and they took us down to where they sleep. I don't see them advertising that either. Can you hear it? Your lovely accomidations in the place you don't want to be, doing the job you don't want to do will be a 3 by 3 by 6 metal cubby hole with a prison mattress, stacked two to three high...hope you don't get the bottom..he he he! This is where you will be sleeping and storing everything that you own for the next four years. Hope you can hide all your stuff and nothing gets stolen!! Don't worry about the storage space. There are 1000 used car dealerships with really pretty cars that have already been dogged out by the previous 12 sailors who couldn't afford to pay the 22.9% interest so they repoed the car from each of them and will charge you the same price as if it had never been driven off the lot. As long as you make your payments, you will always have some place to store your stuff...you just won't be able to get to it for 6 to 9 months out of the year while you are out to sea."

And then there are the recruiters themselves. Ever since this no child left behind, you better get your opt out forms ready as soon as your kids turn high school age. When my step-brother turned 15 the calls started. He told them he wasn't interested. By the time he was 16, my mom started logging 15-20 calls a day. He started lying to get them to leave him alone. He told them he was gay, they said don't ask, don't tell and that he just needed some dicipline, he told them he dropped out of school, they said they could fix that. He told them he has a drug problem and wouldn't pass the test, they said there were ways around the test. Even if you don't mind your child joining the military, you gotta opt out just to keep your sanity.

If Bush is planning on finding a reason for declaring Martial Law he better be planning for a backup military. I can't see ours doing his bidding against the people of America after what he has already done to them. He might not be smart enough to think about that though. I do sometimes fear that we are going to have to pry them out of there with a crowbar.; June 05, 2008 9:51 PM
Unknown said...: Rezko
Wright
Plegher
Ayers

McCain 2008 Hillary 2012; June 05, 2008 9:51 PM
Independent Voter said...: lee, get over it. Go over to John McCain's site if you have such a hard-on for him.; June 05, 2008 9:53 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Ha!

The put Obama's name first then McCain's name on RealClearPolitics. Before Obama became the nominee they had McCain listed first :)

It just keeps getting better and better!

To lee - don't start lists here - the Clinton lists would take a full page to post!

OBAMA/Sebelius '08
.; June 05, 2008 9:58 PM
Unknown said...: Independent Voter:

I saw the classless comments you posted towards me last night.

There is no blood on my hands.

I voted to elected a freshman Democratic Represenative and a freshman Democratic Senator over two incumbent Republicans in 2006.

The Democrats ran on ending the war but have done nothing to achieve it.; June 05, 2008 10:00 PM
Beryl said...: "Cha-ching" That is the sound of Lee getting his 10 cents.

Seriously, I think Obama is being gracious and respectful -- again -- by going to her house. It is irritating because her supporters would not be happy unless he falls to her feet, and kisses them, and resigns from the campaign stating, "I'm not worthy, I'm not worthy!"

There is NOTHING that is respectful enough for them and I'm getting sick of him trying. HRC will NEVER be respectful to him no matter what he does but at least his good behavior is on record.; June 05, 2008 10:05 PM
Yamaka said...: Hello Democrats:

Greetings from Austin, TX.

Here, the people are very much "divided": the Victors and the Vanquished! This may soon change; at least I fervently hope so.

We are ALL waiting for the outcome of Barack + Hillary Meeting just finished or still going on.

W/O Clinton Democrats Barack cannot win the WH, IMO.

He and his supporters must work very very hard to bring all Clinton Democrats home!

We ALL must earnestly try. Try very hard.

Otherwise, bye bye Iraq War or Universal Health Care or Economy. We are ALL doomed!
________________________________

Dear StopObamaNow:

Sorry you are angry at me. I understand your feelings.

Yes, I am a big fan of "Kick Boxing", and politics is a Bloody Sport for me! I fight till the bell rings!! After that, I am just a cool guy dining and wining with the "Enemy" and jocking around like a lunatic!!

You don't like it. Fine with me.

Please come home to the Party. Your anger against Pelosi, Reid and the SDs is quite understandable.

We have to change the Party from inside, not from outside!

:-); June 05, 2008 10:06 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Dave are you lonely nobody to blog with poor baby. LOL . What have you been up to today. I didn't get around to working on my mothers property until today boy was it hot. I bet I lost 10 pounds I know I sweated that much. Just call me sweat hog.LOL. Jean; June 05, 2008 10:14 PM
Independent Voter said...: lee, you call my comments classless? Compared to some of yours they are very mild. But hey, I my skin is A LOT thicker than yours. Hit me with your best shot!

Yes, you WILL have blood on your hands if you follow through with your threat!

The Dems DID work to get timetables pushed through. They have a very SLIM majority in the Senate and with Loserman, who caucus' with the Dems, voting with the Repukes on the issue of Iraq, there really wasn't much they could do without putting our soldiers in more danger than what they were already in.

Remember, Bush vetoed the timetable bills that were sent to him, and vetoed any bill that forced reduced funding. Without a veto-proof majority, they didn't have much room to work with. Once Obama is in the Whitehouse a plan will be devised to remove our troops.

So yes, YOU will be one of those responsible for ANY additional blood shed due to your inability to move beyond your "emotion" of having the first woman serve as president.; June 05, 2008 10:15 PM
Unknown said...: Independent Voter

None of my posts are even remotely as classless as yours.

There are many reasons not to support Obama while still supporting Hillary.

McCain 2008 Hillary 2012; June 05, 2008 10:29 PM
Independent Voter said...: Aunt Jean - Dave are you lonely nobody to blog with poor baby. LOL . What have you been up to today. I didn't get around to working on my mothers property until today boy was it hot. I bet I lost 10 pounds I know I sweated that much. Just call me sweat hog.LOL. Jean

-----

LOL! I think I'll stick with calling you aunt jean :)

I started back to school last Wednesday. I have two classes (for now) starting June 17 I will be taking 4...UGH! But the two I'm in now will be ending July 9th. Very fast paced, but as I've told you before, I want to get done in December. I did better than I thought I was going to do last semester :) 3 A's an A- and a B+. I neglected my studies a little last semester due to the campaign. I was however able to pull my gpa up from a 3.79 to a 3.82 :)

Anyway my classes are MTWTh 10 - 2 (2 hours each). So when I got home today I figured I would get on here and nobody was here :(

I spoke to one of my professors today (Women's Studies), yes, I'm taking a Women's Studies class (Sex, Power, and Politics - is the "official" name of the class). She said that she voted for Hillary in the primary, but she said that she had regretted it. I was kind of shocked. I would say she is in her late 40's early 50's.

The class is very interesting. The main thing that we are studying right now is the late 60's and 70's feminist movement. She said something today that I found to be very interesting. Did you realize that the Equal Rights Amendment that failed to be ratified in 38 stated by 1982 has been reintroduced into Congress every year since 1923? Is that NOT interesting?

Also, did you realize that in the Civil Rights Act of 1964, sex was added to Title VII to get the measure to fail? Little did they know that it would actually pass. LOL!

Anyway just a little bit of trivia.; June 05, 2008 10:33 PM
Independent Voter said...: lee, Get over it. You're no longer worth the time. The blood will be on YOUR hands. The loss of women's rights will be on the hands of you and others who cannot put their bitterness aside.; June 05, 2008 10:36 PM
Hippolytus said...: Here is a revised list of the entries I could find that were posted for the contest (23 entrants so far):

Keryl 2450
JayW 2424
beryl 2375
vwis 2333
Oregon Dem 2331
ed inglehart 2323
Squirrel 2321
Emit R Detshaw 2317
Leah 2300
Richard 2285
apissedant 2282
Uncle John 2281
Hippolytus 2280
Mike in MD 2268.5
Emma 2268
November politics 2265
Aunt Jean 2253
michael from MN 2250
tmessz 2246
softspoken 2240
Kujo 2235
justin 2230
RobH 2222

I hope that this list is accurate and up to date; please let me know if it is not.

There has been no update on the Obama site, but I did notice that wikipedia's superdelegate page now reflects 449.5 Obama, 256.5 Clinton
(vs. 423 Obama, 287.5 Clinton on the Obama site). Hopefully, the Obama site will update the totals tomorrow. If not, we may not to find yet another source to use as our scorecard. Why should that surprise anyone? VBG; June 05, 2008 11:07 PM
apissedant said...: Dave,
Why are you back in school?; June 05, 2008 11:09 PM
Hippolytus said...: Did the Obama-Hillary meeting involve make-up sex? If so, whom was negotiating for what?; June 05, 2008 11:14 PM
suzihussein22 said...: On day two, we have this-

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/06/05/mccain-to-snub-bushs-fund_n_105570.html

Can he have it both ways? What are Dems doing?

http://tinyurl.com/4epu7k

I think that would make the new tally Obama-2 McCain-0

These cartoons are so cute-

http://politicalhumor.about.com/od/johnmccain/ig/John-McCain-Cartoons/McCain-Money.htm; June 05, 2008 11:16 PM
Hippolytus said...: Hillary as "Lili Von Shtüpp, the Teutonic Titwillow" in Blazing Saddles: "Is it true what they say?...It's true, true!"
lol; June 05, 2008 11:20 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Thursday Superdelegate Update: 47 New Endorsements

http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/post/HQblog/gG5BXk

YAHOOOOOOO!!!; June 05, 2008 11:20 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: From DCW front page...

Current superdelegate count:

Obama 461.5
Clinton 251.5

Total delegate count:

Obama 2227
Clinton 1891; June 05, 2008 11:27 PM
apissedant said...: leah,
Who would have thought that everyone would have predicted too low?; June 05, 2008 11:29 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: apissedant-

RobH with 2222 --- is the only one that is out so far everyone else is still above the 2227 line.

RobH, you win a door prize for being first out ;)

.; June 05, 2008 11:32 PM
apissedant said...: leah, there are three days, and she hasn't even suspended her campaign yet... COME ON!; June 05, 2008 11:38 PM
Hippolytus said...: Good news, but the DWC update only reduces the supers remaining number by 8. Leaves 109.5 supers remaining, so we need 59.5 before we close the contest. If we have any more delegations move en masse, that could happen quickly, though.; June 05, 2008 11:44 PM
tmess2 said...: A couple of comments:

First, no person can legitimately blame the Democrats for us still being in Iraq. The breakdown of the Senate is 49-1-1-49 (and was 48-1-1-49 when Senator Johnson was hospitalized). While Senator Lieberman caucuses with the Democrats to give them a 51-49 majority for organizational purposes, he votes with the Republicans on Iraq giving the Republicans the Senate Majority on Iraq. The House has voted several timetables through but recognizes that cutting off funding is not an option. Without enough votes in the Senate, we can't force a withdrawal through.

Second, I like electoral-vote.com but, if you understand their method of analysis, it is not a reliable predictor at this stage. The person running that site uses several different reputable polls and averages all polls taken within seven days of the latest poll. In September, when you have five or six pollsters doing 2 or 3 polls a week in each state that method leads to a mostly reliabel result. When you only have one or two polls a month (as is the case now), one poll can determine how a state is characterized (and there is no control for a singular freak result).; June 05, 2008 11:45 PM
apissedant said...: EVERYONE
I am tired of the McCain bashing. The problem is not with McCain, it is with all of you people. John is a war hero that was tortured for years, and he is also like 80 years old. He cannot stay up past 8 PM anymore, and he drifts in and out of consciousness. This is why you have seen so many recent gaffes and bad speeches: because you pricks made him stay up past his bedtime!
If all the lazy, spend thrift liberals in this country would have just invested wisely, they could quit their second job and be home y 5 PM. Then John McCain wouldn't have to stay up so late to give his speeches, and everything would be ok.

As for not increasing GI Bill benefits, he is doing this to protect them! He realizes that all those enlisted boys and girls are barely able to spell their names. They are just plain dumb. If they increase benefits, these soldiers and sailors will leave the forces for college. Again, he realizes that they are very, very stupid. This means they will simply fail out of college, and have nothing! Their self-esteem will be severely hurt, and the damage will be unrepairable. They will die unemployed, and their families will starve.
Basically, we should REDUCE GI benefits. This way they don't even try to get out. This is the best job they will ever have, and he wants to protect them from the obvious failures they will endure if they try something else.

SO BE NICE TO HIM!; June 05, 2008 11:47 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: tmess2-

Regarding the electral-vote site - surely as we get closer to the general election the polls will be more frequent and we will know how things are going then.

But it is fun looking at the map and numbers now :); June 05, 2008 11:53 PM
Richard said...: Obama has now passed the 2209 threshold, and can very graciously ask that MI & FL delegates get a full vote at the convention. Actually, hopefully the vote will be unanimous and by acclamation.; June 05, 2008 11:56 PM
Independent Voter said...: P'd ant LOL!!!!!!! at your last post!

----

As far as school. I started back 3 years ago (since the 2nd civilian job I have had was shipped to Mexico) majoring in political science. I will be graduating a semester early. :)

I figured as long as there is government there will always be a job for me somewhere :); June 05, 2008 11:56 PM
Hippolytus said...: Does anyone think that the New York delegation moving en masse was unnecessary or over the top? Maybe it doesn't matter at this point, but I would have thought that Hillary would want to hold on to as many delegates as possible. Was this way of Rangel sticking it to her? I knew that he was a powerful guy, but I didn't realize how much stroke he has (apparently).
Also interesting that today's endorsements include Debbie Wasserman Schutz and Jim Webb (finally).; June 05, 2008 11:59 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: apissedant-

LOL - I was fixin' to type out a long post to you regarding McCain then I realized you were joking ;)

Seriously, I don't think McCain is going to be able to hide behind this war hero stuff. Obama always credits him with being a war hero and that he deserves our respect right before he 'lays into him' on policy issues.

Obama will have a much easier time 'with his gloves off' up against McCain then he did with Hillary since she was in his own party.

I look forward to the 'fight' we are about to witness between Obama and McCain.

I just hope that McCain's heart doesn't give out and then they put someone else in in his place because there is NO WAY that McCain will win up against Obama so it's a sure thing now.

Obama/Sebelius '08; June 06, 2008 12:00 AM
suzihussein22 said...: apissedant-You made me stay up past my bedtime.; June 06, 2008 12:00 AM
Independent Voter said...: hipp...I don't think it was meant to be spiteful, I think it was more meant as a gesture of unity for the party. That's all.; June 06, 2008 12:02 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Everyone be sure to watch the Obama: "I'll whup em' " video on Cnn.

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/

I think Obama will have no problem with being quick on his feet, joking, and connecting with America!

.; June 06, 2008 12:03 AM
Independent Voter said...: leah - I think John McCain will be ok provided he doesn't run out of depends :); June 06, 2008 12:03 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Regarding the CNN stick video....

"Speak softly and carry a big stick" - President Roosevelt

.; June 06, 2008 12:08 AM
apissedant said...: Dave,
Good for you! I decided to go to college after I made it over two years without a pay raise. I got rave reviews, they had me training all the other employees, including those that had been their longer, but there was just no money for raises. Considering all my bills were up 10%, and my wages were the EXACT SAME, I decided you can get no where in this country without a degree. I got you beat though, because I am graduating 1 1/2 early, although with a slightly lower GPA, at 3.71.; June 06, 2008 12:10 AM
apissedant said...: leah,
Same thing I thought of. The last truly great Republican president we have had.; June 06, 2008 12:11 AM
Independent Voter said...: holy CHIT p'd ant! GOOD FOR YOU!!!!!

That is AWESOME - especially holding that high of a gpa and graduating a 1 1/2 years early! OMG I would have been going NUTZ taking that many classes! THAT IS FRICKIN' NUTZ!!!!!!!; June 06, 2008 12:14 AM
Beryl said...: "Does anyone think that the New York delegation moving en masse was unnecessary or over the top?"

Hippolytus - I think it was the right thing in that they were really getting sick of her behaving as if she "owned" them along with her other 17 million supporters.

Hilary Rosen's comments were the most telling and earned my respect as intelligent woman who knows how to follow her HEAD as well as her HEART:

"So, I am also so very disappointed at how she has handled this last week. I know she is exhausted and she had pledged to finish the primaries and let every state vote before any final action. But by the time she got on that podium last night, she knew it was over and that she had lost. I am sure I was not alone in privately urging the campaign over the last two weeks to use the moment to take her due, pass the torch and cement her grace. She had an opportunity to soar and unite. She had a chance to surprise her party and the nation after the day-long denials about expecting any concession and send Obama off on the campaign trail of the general election with the best possible platform. I wrote before how she had a chance for her "Al Gore moment." And if she had done so, the whole country ALL would be talking today about how great she is and give her her due.

"Instead she left her supporters empty, Obama's angry, and party leaders trashing her. She said she was stepping back to think about her options. She is waiting to figure out how she would "use" her 18 million voters.

"But not my vote. I will enthusiastically support Barack Obama's campaign. Because I am not a bargaining chip. I am a Democrat."; June 06, 2008 12:14 AM
Hippolytus said...: independent voter,
I understand, but I imagine that Hillary can't be very happy about it. On the other hand, with people like Wasserman Schultz endorsing Obama, maybe it's an orchestrated way to signal unity. I'm sure you're right.
_________
By the way, Rendell was pretty blunt, too, in saying that one does not negotiate with the presumptive nominee, even if your name is Clinton and you have 18M votes. His way of sucking up to Obama for VP, or just Eddie being Eddie?; June 06, 2008 12:15 AM
suzihussein22 said...: apissedant and all-I really must say good night my friends. Oh, and kelly green IS NOT my color. I'll have to fire that PR manager...he's already fired...those pesky PAC connections again.; June 06, 2008 12:16 AM
Independent Voter said...: p'd ant - what's your major?; June 06, 2008 12:17 AM
Hippolytus said...: beryl,
Yep, Hilary Rosen was right on the mark. I'm just so glad that her strongest supporters came to the conclusion that they did, or this thing could have gotten ugly. As it is, with a strong and repeated effort by Hillary, I don't think there will be any negative repercussions for Obama. A lot of people will file this away re: Hillary (and Bill), though.; June 06, 2008 12:20 AM
apissedant said...: thanks Dave, but there wasn't much choice really. The GI Bill doesn't really cover anything. I went from 15k in the bank to 5.5k in debt in two years. My wife and I also had over 1k in immigration costs during that period, so I had to get the work done, or basically lose my house.

I don't know how you possibly afforded it.; June 06, 2008 12:21 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Obama and Clinton meeting:

Sources tell FOX News the meeting took place at the D.C. home of California Sen. Dianne Feinstein, a prominent Clinton supporter.

-----

Regarding Hillary's debt:

Clinton Expected to Seek Help From Obama in Retiring $30M Debt

30 MILLION - 30 MILLION - 30 MILLION !!!

.; June 06, 2008 12:22 AM
apissedant said...: soft,
sleep well!! I posted on the VP thread on Richard's site. I expect a response!; June 06, 2008 12:22 AM
Independent Voter said...: hipp - By the way, Rendell was pretty blunt, too, in saying that one does not negotiate with the presumptive nominee, even if your name is Clinton and you have 18M votes. His way of sucking up to Obama for VP, or just Eddie being Eddie?

----------

I would say it is simply eddie being opportunistic. I think he's a schmuck. My partner's parents live in PA and they literally can't stand him (now granted they don't vote, but they still don't like him.); June 06, 2008 12:22 AM
apissedant said...: Dave,
I am majoring in Chemistry with a minor in education. It was supposed to be a double major, but they screwed up the scheduling and I had to kill the education major.; June 06, 2008 12:23 AM
Beryl said...: I think he was just being Eddie. He's been around a long time and doesn't have time to play games.

Hillary's prima donna behavior over the last couple of days backfired on her. Even her buddy Gov. Rendell stuck it to her:

"There's no bargaining. You don't bargain with the Presidential nominee. Even if you're Hillary Clinton and you have 18 million votes, you don't bargain."; June 06, 2008 12:23 AM
Independent Voter said...: p'd ant - my partner (William) has sacrificed a lot for me to get my education as well as an ungodly amount of student loans have helped us get by.; June 06, 2008 12:26 AM
Independent Voter said...: p'd.....OMFG! You majored in Chemistry and done in 2 1/2 years? HOLY CHIT!!!!!!!!!!

So much MATH in addition to all the chem classes....I would absolutely be going nuts if I were you! Ok, I take that back, I would already be in the nuthouse.; June 06, 2008 12:29 AM
Hippolytus said...: independent voter,
That's my take, too (opportunism).

(To all: No response to my "make up sex" and Blazing Saddles quips? What a staiad group. OK, I know they were politically incorrect, but I'm sick enough to think they were funny. My apologies to anyone who was offended.)

I'm going to pack it in early tonight, everyone. Good night.; June 06, 2008 12:30 AM
Independent Voter said...: hipp....LOL!

I thought it was funny but, the thought.......ew! Never mind.; June 06, 2008 12:32 AM
Independent Voter said...: btw hipp - gnight; June 06, 2008 12:34 AM
Matt said...: All - There will be a post and discussion thread on reforming the nomination process available at 7:00 AM Friday.; June 06, 2008 12:37 AM
apissedant said...: Dave,
Good for you and Will. What are you planning to do with your degree?; June 06, 2008 12:38 AM
apissedant said...: MATT!!! YES!!! I LOVE YOU! I would like to inform everyone that I will be spending entirely too much time in that thread, and that not everyone will love my opinion.; June 06, 2008 12:39 AM
Independent Voter said...: p'd ant...I will probably be joining you over there.

I intend to continue and get my teaching credentials to teach high school government/civics. I would also like to do some policy analysis on the side - since teaching doesn't pay nearly enough. I'll be doing my internship next semester doing some volunteer work at a local non-profit; June 06, 2008 12:47 AM
Independent Voter said...: Thank you MATT!!!!!! You guys ARE the absolute BEST!; June 06, 2008 12:49 AM
Bob in Vancouver said...: Going back over old ground I now see quite clearly that Obama actually won the status of Presumptive Nominee over a month ago, way back on May 5th. If you remember, Indiana was supposed to have gone heavily (double digits) to Hillary Clinton and she was to come close in North Carolina.

Even though Hillary Clinton won a few primaries after that point, Indiana was actually where Obama won the race.

She went on to win West Virginia and Kentuckey which I'm sure everyone would agree, two states he didn't really try to contest. I'm sure he knew it was in the bag at that time.

He picked up Oregon, but Puerto Rico was very different. Hillary Clinton poured tons of time and resources into that contest, compared to Obama. Obama only showed up for one day. So again he didn't really contest Puerto Rico.

Lastly, he picked up Montana, an open primary, but not South Dakota a closed primary. That was the difference. And compared to what Clinton devoted to South Dakota, he did not really put on a big campaign there either.

I don't see it when some people suggest that Hillary Clinton really came on at the end of the primaries. At that time Obama turned his sites to the McCain and the Presidential Campaign. I don't think she would have done half as well had it really come down to the wire.; June 06, 2008 12:53 AM
Hippolytus said...: Leah Texas4Obama said...
"Speak softly and carry a big stick" - President Roosevelt
________
Sorry, I can't resist -- Are you referring to the Blazing Saddles bit? lol ;-)
Good night for sure, this time.; June 06, 2008 1:02 AM
Independent Voter said...: LOL hipp!!!!!!!!!!!

ROFL!!!!!!

You just keep trying to force us into that visual aren't you?; June 06, 2008 1:03 AM
freshtest said...: thank you, thank you, thank you, dcw folks, for all your great and hard work putting together this site! it's been an indispensible, multiple-must-see part of my day for months now.; June 06, 2008 1:10 AM
apissedant said...: Dave,
Yeah, well I switched over and I'm looking to hit grad school in the Netherlands and hopefully teach college. The low wages and the lack of promotion opportunities in High School just didn't appeal, especially since the wife is pregnant. She's getting her old job back in the Netherlands, and I'm applying for a really good scholarship... if I get it.

I got to teach college chemistry labs this past year, and I really enjoyed it. Plus they get to do research too.; June 06, 2008 1:11 AM
apissedant said...: I feel left out. I missed the original jokes somehow.; June 06, 2008 1:12 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: From CNN...

On Friday, Democratic leaders in New York, including Gov. David Paterson, state legislators and city council members, plan to endorse Obama at a 1 p.m. news conference at New York's City Hall, the sources said.

----; June 06, 2008 1:13 AM
Independent Voter said...: p'd ant......Hipp earlier had asked if Hillary and Barack's meeting today was for make up sex - hence the reference to blazing saddles. LOL

--------

I thought about being a Poli Sci professor, but Im not really looking at the money at this point, ya of course I want to do better financially but by college most students have at least a slight idea of government but I would like to get the students interested in how the government effects their lives.; June 06, 2008 1:22 AM
apissedant said...: Dave,
I think teaching college level political science or history would be worse than teaching high school. I loved my high school government class, but my college history class was terrible. People didn't care, they just memorized whatever the teacher said so they could pass the class. She would say the most blatantly incorrect statements about history, and I would look around and everybody was furiously writing notes about it.; June 06, 2008 1:29 AM
apissedant said...: dave,
Chemistry at the college level is a little better I think. At my school, there are about 20 professors, and only 2 of them teach freshmen Chemistry. That means 18 of the 20 get to teach a class of smart kids that actually know something and are interested in the subject.; June 06, 2008 1:34 AM
apissedant said...: crap, 1:35 again. Better go upstairs and join the wifey. Have a good night! Good luck on all your endeavors!

P.S. As far as the money goes, I'm not a money hoard, but I have to make enough to support my growing family. 30k teaching high school in Virginia can't support a family. I was making more than that as a field technician with no college.; June 06, 2008 1:36 AM
Independent Voter said...: p'd ant - I hear ya! That's great as far as only 2 lower division professors.

I don't think 30K is enough to really raise a family ANYWHERE in the US, well ok, maybe KY! LOL! Provided you live in a trailer :); June 06, 2008 1:41 AM
Independent Voter said...: btw ant - gnight; June 06, 2008 1:42 AM
apissedant said...: Dave,
haha... sadly there are still a few places here where 30k a year and a trailer is considered the good life. In the wealthiest nation in the world. Kind of sad really.
http://www.statemaster.com/graph/hea_ora_hea_los_of_nat_tee-health-oral-loss-natural-teeth
http://www.cafepress.com/shop/supertank/browse/store/igottheshirts/311750; June 06, 2008 1:46 AM
apissedant said...: night; June 06, 2008 1:46 AM
Roadkill Books said...: 2350 is my number. Work hard it's an uphill battle. I give Obama about a 48 % chance of winning the general. Current odds give him 60%. Anyway down with racism and sexism and lets smash the right. I wont be satisfied untol there are 3 Obama supreme court justices. I predict Alito will have a tragic accident in 7 years. Thomas will have a heart attack in5.5 years. Scalia will be justice for at least another 25.

ciao; June 06, 2008 3:02 AM
ed iglehart said...: Somebody actually paid good money for this!

Sheer brilliant Originality and creativity!

Yuk!; June 06, 2008 5:29 AM
hussein786 said...: Hey Matt/Oreo,
I have seen a couple of other requests for this as well. Could you guys please keep a list of the uncommitted super delegates updated, just so we can see who are the most spineless of them.
Cheers; June 06, 2008 9:12 AM
Uncle John said...: Morning, all.

Like to hear some thoughts on Kathleen Sebelius and Bill Richardson.

Kathleen I do not know at all. Bill impressed me in earlier debates, along with Hillary, in command of the issues.; June 06, 2008 9:25 AM
greywolf said...: I dont know where this open thread is today to discuss changing the nomination process, so I will post my two cents worth here.

1. The current systems for both parties needs to be scrapped and put into the recycling bin.

2. This will apply to both parties or shall I say all parties that run for the nomination and for the GE. As neither system reflects the voice of the people, let alone the will of the people.
a. All parties shall campaign as they normally would however, there will only be one day of voting. Call it a party nomination election day to take place some time in late April or early May. All states will vote on the same day. No state will release voting total or any information relating to the vote until the last poll closes in that last state that voted that day. All vote totals will be released at the same time by all voting states and territories (ie at 3pm central time the day following the closing of the last polling station). This prevents manipulation of numbers as no on will know the total votes until they are all released.
There will be a minimum number of superdelegates in each party and they will be the presiding members of the house and senate as well plus those living past presidents, and top party leadership inside the national offices (max per party 350). Superdelegates will be in play ONLY when there is a dead on tie, or heavens for bid when something happens to the nominee that prevents them from continuing on to the GE (illness, death, or a major fopa that forces them to withdraw) Who ever has the most votes even if the spread is by 1 vote will win.
b. Same process would apply to the GE. The president elect will be based upon the popular vote total. Superdelegates will be in play when and only when there is a dead even tie in votes.

THIS ELIMINATES THE STATE DELEGATES, CAUCUSES, AND PREVENTS TEH NOMINATION PROCESS FROM BEING MANIPULATED BY THE SUPERDELEGATES.
SUPERDELEGATES WILL VOTE IN THE PRIMARY AND GE ELECTIONS HOWEVER THEIR VOTES WILL BE KEPT SECRET AND RELEASED ONLY IF THERE IS A DEAD EVEN TIE. THERE WILL BE NO DEBATES BETWEEN THOSE SUPERDELEGATES AS TO WHOM TO VOTE FOR. THEY WILL CAST THEIR BALLOTS AND THOSE BALLOTS WILL BE DEPOSITED IN A LOCKED BALLOT BOX TO BE OPENED ONLY WHEN THERE IS A TIE IN VOTES. IF THERE IS NOT TIE, THE BALLOTS FOR BOTH THE PRIMARY AND GE TO BE DISCLOSED ONLY AFTER THE PRESIDENT ELECT IS SWORN IN OR DESTROYED AT THE DISCRETION OF THE PRESIDENT ELECT.; June 06, 2008 10:43 AM
greywolf said...: by the way I predicted a vote total of 2300 even three days ago and my prediction is not listed.; June 06, 2008 10:47 AM
Karen Anne said...: So I see now Dianne Feinstein is lying about Clinton getting the popular vote. I didn't know insanity was catching.

The sound you hear is my teeth grinding.; June 06, 2008 11:28 AM
Dave in NC said...: Hippo,

If the voting is still open, 2366 for me.

I posted several days ago that I thought Obama would win by 400-500.

Using the high number of 500 means clinching (2117) + 249 more.

2117+249=2366; June 06, 2008 11:47 AM
stopOBAMAnow said...: Hello There:

As of this morning no one knows for sure how the talk between Hillary and BHO went last night.

I hope they were dead locked! And most of the Clinton Democrats stay home in the Fall.

Ore-Dem:

Your tone of the question was symbolic and typical of most of your brethren: you cannot handle dissent. You want to play the political game w/o any opponent! Last time when I checked, this Site is for anyone who can say what they think of the Candidates and who will win, why and why not. Your claim to total ownership of this Site is just pathetic and terribly boyish. A robust dissent is the hallmark of any vibrant Democracy, if you truly believe in it!

On why BHO left his name in FL:

Yes, FL mandated that the name to appear on the GE ballot, it should appear on the Primary ballot also. My question to BHO and you is this:

When you did not want the Primary votes in MI and FL (to pander to the idiocy of the undemocratic autocratic Democratic Party) then why the hell you want the GE votes from these States? You did not want their Primary votes when they voted in Jan as scheduled by the States, then why did you rig the RBC to get most of the delegates from FL and MI? Besides, you violated the Agreement not to campaign in FL, by running cable campaign Ads there. The incompetent RBC did not have the guts to question you on that legal breach!

To my friend Yamaka:

You asked me to come home to the Party! Here are the reasons that you should quit the Party, after your vote at the State Convention this weekend:

1. Whichever way you slice it, BHO is a bleeding FAR LEFT Liberal itching to raise tax on highly productive skilled professionals like yourself. As you used to write so cleverly he "wants to tax the rich and feed the rest".

Already, the bottom 50% of ALL earners pay only 4% of the total Federal Tax, while the top 1% pay nearly 30% of the Federal Tax. Then, why to contemplate on soaking the "rich" more? Mostly, the "rich" are rich because of their high skills, hard work and the sense of risk taking; the "poor" are terribly low skilled and less hard working. We need to change the working culture, and not taxing the hard working high skilled people! That would be counter-productive.

Because of his obsession with high taxes, the Economy will deteriorate further, surely will not improve.
This is bad for the country, because we MUST create about 2 million new jobs a year to keep up with the growth in labor force.

2. BHO will be a disaster to our National Security. Most villains in this world know that he is the weakest person to lead the strongest Nation! Mischievous foes will attack US ruthlessly knowing the response will be certainly weak from BHO and his liberal Administration. This did happen on 9/11/2001. Do you want to see a repeat of it, my friend?

3. BHO's foreign policy of talking to our adversaries w/o pre-condition will be a shear waste of time and energy, which we don't have much. His "unilateral engagement" is nice to hear, but will be extremely difficult to follow through. We will come across as big jokers in the International Arena.

4. BHO is a ruthless politician from Chicago. His 20 year-association with Wright, Pfleger, Ayers and others show a serious blemish in his inner core of character. This he hides by his eloquence and oratory in demagoguing the issues. But we can see through the veneer: his character, judgment and credibility are at peril.

Therefore, my friend Yamaka, please quit the Democratic Party and join me in working for a safe and vibrant economy in America.

I hope you will find time to respond to me!; June 06, 2008 11:55 AM
Mug said...: Greywolf,

I think the SDs serve an important purpose. That is to offset the "ignorant" voter. Just because people have the right to vote doesn't mean others should suffer for their irresponsible voting. When my mother told me she voted for G.W. Bush in 2004 because he was better looking than John Kerry, I seriously began to wonder if people should be required to pass a political competency test before being allowed to vote. After all, lacking the ability to make mature decisions is why those under 17 are not allowed to vote. SDs should vote the way their state votes but in some cases, like WV, I think its best for SDs to act in the best interest of their state which may not be the way their state voted.

I remember right before the WV primary, the press was interviewing voters on why they supported Clinton over Obama. The press was actually making fun of them, stating the answers they received were "grounded in ignorance and often contradictory." Most of the people they interviewed didn't really know what political differences there were between Clinton and Obama. They were simply voting for Clinton because they believed Obama was a muslim or they believed he was a racist christian and some believed both (contradictory). Some quoted the viral emails word for word as if they had memorized them saying "he won't say the pledge of alegience."

We need the SDs. Far too many people vote on the person and not on the issues.; June 06, 2008 12:22 PM
Karen Anne said...: stopOBAMAnow,

There seem to be a number of misconceptions in your post.

Obama did not "rig" the RBC. There were more Clinton supporters than Obama supporters on the RBC.

He did not violate the no campaigning in Florida rule. He ran tv ads which overlapped from a neighboring state and which could not be restricted from Florida. He had DNC approval for that. The RBC is part of the DNC. Clinton, meanwhile, made three appearances in the state. I would say it's even on that one.

The states follow the national party rules on party elections, or it's chaos. This has nothing to do with the general.

And note that Clinton agreed to those rules. It was only later when she started losing that she decided to try and get those votes counted.

Excuse me, I'm hardworking and middle class. (Thanks for not saying "white.") The wealthy have been getting a big tax cut under Bush, and Obama and Clinton both want to reverse that. In Obama's case it will pay for part of the new healthcare program. I don't know what Clinton intended it for. But if you are worrying a lot about taxes on the wealthy, you are unlikely to be a Democrat.

Don't confuse reason with weakness. And the US running off half cocked and attacking the wrong nation in response to 9/11 has done nothing but drain the US economy, credit huge debt, strain the armed forces, cost many lives unnecessarily, and bred terrorism. I prefer a President who is well informed and is not an idiot.

The international arena already likes Obama. If the State Dept wastes some time talking, so what. Maybe it will have good results, like your buddies Nixon and Reagan got thru talking.

First you say Obama's weak, then he's ruthless. Could you make up your mind?; June 06, 2008 12:29 PM
Uncle John said...: I'm an Obama-leaning Republican, so I'll let you Dems sort out the Super-Delegate problem.

FWIW:

Somewhat agreeing with greywolf and mug, I think SD's are there to prevent a major disaster in picking a nominee: big-time faux pas after clinching pledged delegates, incapacitating illness, etc.

This time around, you Dems picked the right guy with your pledged delegates. So, the SD's did not have to do the disaster-avoidance thing. I think that's the way it was supposed to work, and it did.; June 06, 2008 12:40 PM
Hippolytus said...: Dave in NC,
Got your number. Anyone else want in? We're getting close to closing the polls.

jpsedona, Yamaka...?

Yams, this is your chance for redemption, and a final time to demonstrate your Math.; June 06, 2008 1:10 PM
Mike Ruth said...: Upon reflection, I think the that nomination process has essentially worked as intended. To wit:
- a minority candidate could get a solid start from hard work in small states without need of much money initially.
- the process is long enough to "vet" (Hillary's word) the candidates pretty thoroughly before the final decision gets made.
- all the states, pretty much, were relevant to the decision process (despite the infamous Clinton/Penn "insult 40 states strategy")
- Caucuses counted as much as primaries, which helps give all the states their unique "voice" in the process.

The trouble with a one-day fits all primary is that it would be almost all about simple name recognition and would thus contribute to family dynastic politics which are the bane of a democracy.

Not to say there could not be some improvements ... but maybe we should, for the moment, respect the existing process that has brought us such a dynamic candidate and debate.; June 06, 2008 1:50 PM
jean said...: hey,
I been talking to people and the group is quite diverse.
I live in San Diego and there is a lot of military.
I was quite surprised that McCain was so disliked. Many have met him and said he was a total jerk on several occasions.
It came down to that it was who was going to be the VP on both candidates.
First choice was Obama/Clinton.
Second choice McCain/Romney.
Third choice was they would not vote.
The overall view was that neither nominee would not last that long.
They pointed to history and stats.
I was shocked.
I live in an area of Republicans.
Just Wow.
jean; June 06, 2008 2:04 PM
Independent Voter said...: hey,
I been talking to people and the group is quite diverse.
I live in San Diego and there is a lot of military.
I was quite surprised that McCain was so disliked. Many have met him and said he was a total jerk on several occasions.
It came down to that it was who was going to be the VP on both candidates.
First choice was Obama/Clinton.
Second choice McCain/Romney.
Third choice was they would not vote.
The overall view was that neither nominee would not last that long.
They pointed to history and stats.
I was shocked.
I live in an area of Republicans.
Just Wow.
jean

------

jean - what part of San Diego do you live? I live in Banker's Hill/Hillcrest area (duh - I'm gay aren't I) - and yes parking out at SDSU SUCKS!!!!!!!! So I take the trolley - VERY CONVENIENT!; June 06, 2008 2:09 PM
billyjay66 said...: The biggest problem we had was the 100% penalty on MI-FL. No one could have made such a big deal out of a 50% penalty with all names on the ballot.

We had a chance to vote up or down on changing to a primary or keeping our caucus. I don't know anybody in their right mind that would insist on a caucus.

For more active party members maybe a caucus to select pledged delegates for networking but not for counting at the convention.; June 06, 2008 2:10 PM
jean said...: Independant Voter,
I live in Vista.
I work in Carlsbad and the Husband works downtown. It is a lovely commute for me not him.
jean; June 06, 2008 2:13 PM
stopOBAMAnow said...: "I don't know what Clinton intended it for. But if you are worrying a lot about taxes on the wealthy, you are unlikely to be a Democrat."

Karen Anne:

Thanks for the reply.

1. I said the RBC was rigged because they rewarded the Candidate who did NOT want any vote from MI on 15 Jan, with more PDs plus 4 more stolen from Hillary. This is weird.

2. In my mind, BHO ran campaign Ads while Hillary did not in FL. That's a violation of the Agreement. DNC cannot breach its own Rules by giving "permission" to one Candidate to violate the Rule. They allowed NH and PR to violate the Rule to change the Date for the Primary, but did not allow FL and MI. Therefore, it is mere arbitrariness that governed RBC, no Rule was followed under any logic. I called it the corrupt, autocratic and undemocratic body! They finally paved the way for the Nomination of the Minority Candidate ignoring the strength of the Majority Candidate.

2. Giving a low tax rate for the dividends and Cap Gain not only help the "rich" it helps nearly 100 million "middle class" investors through their 403 (b) and 401 (k).

Plus, a lower tax rate brings MORE revenue to the Federal Treasury. This has been shown empirically. If the rate goes UP as per BHO's plan, then the revenue will go DOWN. Then, you will not get any more revenue to fund the Universal Health Care or any new Govt. program. This is Econ 101.

This will force more deficit or cutting down existing Govt Program.

Hillary wants to bring efficiency to the Govt and cut down wastes and bureaucracy.

3. BHO is weak on policy matters, but brutally ruthless in demagoguing about his character and judgment.

I am a middle class guy, and looking for a robust economic growth, plus a safe and secure America. That's it.

BHO is not the Right Candidate for a difficult time.

BHO = Inexperienced = Bush = Disaster.; June 06, 2008 2:15 PM
apissedant said...: mike, grey, and unlce john,
Cannot do the vote all in one day, and cannot continue the current process. The current process has resulted in preferential treatment to certain voters and certain states. This is inappropriate and wrong.
Farmers play an important role in our nation, and we need food. However, farmers are the only group that our nation is still protecting from foreign trade. This is wrong, if everyone wants a free market, then the ENTIRE market should be free. If people see a reason to protect the American industries and businesses, then they should be protecting more than one of those businesses.
There are two reasons why I believe that farmers have been given such wonderful protection, and I will explain them, and then explain how it is partially counterproductive.
1)The way we give 2 senate seats to every state regardless of population results in extra power for small states. These small states are nearly all farming states. This allows them to exert more power than their numbers allow.
2)Iowa and New Hampshire are both farming states, and in order to be president, you must first win in at least one of these states.

This farming protection is partially good, because the free market would often allow us to starve. Economic principles say that those that produce, will supply slightly less than the demand would require. This allows for a more profitable business. This would already mean not enough food, and then if any natural disaster came, it would further disrupt the supply of food, causing starvation or at least malnutrition. This is the defense of the subsidies.
On the other had, the import protection does the entire opposite. It keeps our farmers producing crap we don't need, that could be better made overseas. For instance, switching over to ethanol was a terrible mistake. We now are converting all of our fields to corn, and converting all that to ethanol. Corn is the most destructive crop on the soil, and requires ridiculous amounts of fertilizers and pesticides that further pollute the water. It then requires a lot of energy to turn corn into ethanol, costing almost as much energy to make it, as the ethanol later produces.
If we instead imported more Brazilian ethanol, we would be much better off. It has been said that producing ethanol from corn is 5 to 6 times less efficient than from sugar cane. We could get more fuel, for less money, and be more environmentally sound. This is a win, win win. Instead we charge a large tariff to prevent these imports because Iowa is making loads of money off corn, and we want their votes.

We can't do it all in a day, because then the candidate with the most name recognition always wins. We never get a Bill Clinton or a Barack Obama, because they never get to work in one or two states until they earn national attention. Instead, have a system that simply varies the first states every single election. Iowa and New Hampshire this time, Washington state and Florida next time. Just keep going around. I think this should be done, one or two states at a time for the first few months. Then in March or April, have all remaining states do their primary on the exact same day. I super duper Tuesday.

This way no state is continually sucking on the federal tit, and no state is left abandoned like Michigan.; June 06, 2008 2:18 PM
jpsedona said...: Hippo,

I am sitting out on the final SD tally. Sort of the same way I wouldn't be sitting there in the 9th inning when the home team is up by 63 runs...; June 06, 2008 2:54 PM
justin said...: I don't know. The rolling model for first primary would be odd. One every 25 years elections, your state would get attention (1 in 100 years). Once in a lifetime chance to influence the presidential nomination. Not a lot more influence than I have now.

The primaries would become who can figure out this states wants and promise the most first. Also, big states (when they are first) would lend advantage to money and name recognition.

By having small venues, and small states that have experience, you allow for a national stage with an experienced local environment.

Is the current system that broken? We have wound up with many good debates, the recognition and response to some mistakes and baggage, and a motivated, mobilized electorate. We have had a close race between 2 good candidates. Just because it was close doesn't mean it was broken.

A super duper Tuesday would miss out on the process of developing an image and thick skin.

Look at McCain. He does not have a well defined image, just changed his slogan to copy Obama (apparently his web site too) and he does not have the experience that Obama has.

That's right, Obama is more experienced than McCain on the campaign trail of '08.; June 06, 2008 2:56 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: greywolf-

You missed Hippolytus' post to you - he asked you to pick a new number because you said 2300+ and the number 2300 was already taken.

Uncle John -

Here is some info on Kathleen Sebelius

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kathleen_Sebelius

Everyone -

DCW has added a thread on the front page for discussion of "How should the Democrats change their nomination process?"
http://demconwatch.blogspot.com/2008/06/how-should-democrats-change-their.html

Obama '08/'12; June 06, 2008 3:14 PM
apissedant said...: justin,
It wouldn't exactly be 1 in 100 years. Someone talked in the other forum about having six early states. Right now we have 4. Either way, that would be either 1 in 50, or 1 in 33. Also, just because your state doesn't have a say, doesn't mean that a state with similar issues doesn't have a say. If I still lived in Michigan, I would be going through much of the same problems as Illinois, Pennsylvania, Ohio, West Virginia, and Indiana. Anytime any of those states got an early ticket, issues that really matter to be me would be front and center.

As far as the system being broken, you are looking very short term. You are looking at this one problem, and saying that is the only problem. Look at the CAUSE of the problem. Michigan is absolutely screwed. Their government is nearly bankrupt, their economy is in the dumps, people are leaving at record rates, and unemployment is at 10%. This has been a slow process, happening for 30 years. It is changes in national policies that created the problem there, and for 30 years it has been getting worse and worse. I would say, as a former Michigander, it is most definitely broken. It was never working in the first place. It is an embarrassment to our system.

As for small states allowing small venues, this is not exclusive to them. The campaign in Iowa and New Hampshire lasted over a year!!! Are you telling me that in the course of a year, these candidates wouldn't be able to travel to nearly every city and town in Michigan? I will bet money that these two candidates saw the same faces in the crowd almost a dozen times.
I don't know how closely you follow politics and attend events, and I will not pretend to know how things work everywhere and for everyone, but I will talk from my experience. For the Senate race, I saw Senator Webb in a bar speaking to a grand total of 20 supporters early on. In the relatively large state of Virginia (13 electoral votes). I saw him at 3 other events during the campaign, and I had quite a bit going on. I missed quite a few events. I saw Governor Tim Kaine at five or six events. I shook his hand more than once. I did not WORK for either campaign, though I did volunteer a little for both (much more for Kaine that Obama due to time restrictions). If they are seeing the same faces over and over in small venues in medium size states like Michigan, I bet they are seeing the same faces even more in small states like Iowa and NH.; June 06, 2008 3:16 PM
apissedant said...: leah,
Wikipedia is not a proper source. If I was a college professor, I would bite off your head for posting that. Luckily I'm a college student, and I use it all the time. Though I had to fix their constitution wikipedia article just yesterday. It claimed that you had to be born in the United States in order to serve as President.; June 06, 2008 3:17 PM
apissedant said...: leah, I am posting in that thread too, but I've never been good at following the rules. greywolf started it.; June 06, 2008 3:18 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Hippolytus-

Now that people are being eliminated in our contest (and people are allowed only one guess) - there SHOULD NOT be any new guess added to the list, in my opinion. (except for greywolf in order to state his 'exact' number without the + sign.; June 06, 2008 3:19 PM
Beryl said...: Hillary's concession speech tomorrow -- what words do you expect her to use? Do you expect her speech to effectively motivate the HRC-loyalists who have not already unified?

Obama representatives are very positive, as usual. Also, those who have already moved their support (e.g. Rendell, and the NY SDs) have already stating their disappointment in her previous responses and their expectation that tomorrow will be a better day for her.; June 06, 2008 3:21 PM
greywolf said...: Thanks leah.. and her is your answer.

My exact number, with out the + sign... since someone also has my number which I have stated several times as being 2300, and 2300+. I used the 2300+ only because it was my belief that everyone was being way to consertative in their numbers and Obama actually had a stronger draw than shown only because too many of the superdelegates appeared to be afraid of going aginst the Clintons. I had also thought Hillary would have conceeded the race on tuesday. Sad to she did not. i will settle for 2301. But I still want it noted that my original number was 2300; June 06, 2008 3:41 PM
RobH said...: Leah,

Where'd this "and people are only allowed one guess" rule come from?

I didn't see that anywhere! I was waiting for two minutes to post time to drop in with my refined projection. (wink)

I am un-proud to be the first one out the door, but as you read, I put absolutely no thought in to it. Given my previous claims to some prognosticatory excellence, I feel like a mojor weenie now. As I am the only one so far eliminated, I must take your reiterated exclusion personally. (wink wink)

But I least I'm notable for something. As Austin Powers would say: "Yeah, baby, yeah...."; June 06, 2008 3:43 PM
RobH said...: Oh yeah, Leah, I forgot:

Just like Yam is posting under two identities (at least), I thought I'd let you know that I am posting under several accounts as well. Here are a few:

Keryl
JayW
beryl
vwis
Oregon Dem
ed inglehart
Squirrel
Emit R Detshaw
Richard
apissedant
Uncle John
Hippolytus yes (me too)
Mike in MD
Emma
November politics
Aunt Jean
michael from MN
tmessz
softspoken
Kujo
justin; June 06, 2008 3:48 PM
RobH said...: I've been VERY busy......; June 06, 2008 3:50 PM
greywolf said...: apissedant said...
mike, grey, and unlce john,
Cannot do the vote all in one day,

Sorry But I must strongly disagree with you. if every candidate campaigned as they normally would and they had those debates.. traveling throught out the states from January through mid to late may then on a national voting holiday everyone voted. This would work just fine. Especially if all the campaining was provided full media coverage. You would have plenty of time to get to know the unkown as well as learn the unknown/undesirable factors of each candidate. Oh one last thing..this national voting should be an open voting process.. no voter should be restricted to a party you shoud be able to vote for who every you want regardless of party affiliaton.; June 06, 2008 3:52 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: RobH-

I believe when Hippolytus started the contest he said that 'only' the person's first guess would count.

I was just going by what he said when he set up the game ;); June 06, 2008 4:00 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: greywolf-

I was the one that said 2300 first right after Hippolytus started the game. I must say that by you taking 2301 now and locking me out that it is not very nice - but I won't hold it against you since it is only a silly game.

Good luck with your number.; June 06, 2008 4:05 PM
apissedant said...: greywolf,
Look up a name for me. Geoffrey Fieger. He is the reason that Democrats went with a caucus in the 2000 Presidential election. He ran for governor in 1996. Everyone hated him, Republicans crossed party lines and voted for him in droves. They then easily beat him in the general election, and we suffered 4 more years of Engler. I don't mind closed primaries. Those that choose should be those that care and know the most. The rest of the people that vote based on a 30 second commercial can do it in November.; June 06, 2008 4:09 PM
apissedant said...: Also, the cost of a 50 state campaign would be ridiculous. They could not go shake hands and do all of that with voters in every state. There is no way for it to be possible and still allow small candidates to break out and do well. They get enough money to do it in one state, they meet people... people like them... they win... all the sudden people donate tons of money, and now they can afford to do it in another state.; June 06, 2008 4:10 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Hippolytus said...

Here's a little game I'd like to offer-- How many total delegates will Obama have by midnight this Sunday?
Groundrules:
1) 1 entry (and first entry) per entrant.
2) Entry must be made before the earlier of midnight EST on June 8, 2008 or entry on DCW page of 50 or fewer uncommitted delegates remaining.

I'll go first, and guess 2280. (I hope he exceeds 2300!)

June 03, 2008 11:37 PM
__________________________

Leah said:

Hippolytus-

I am going to shoot for 2300

June 03, 2008 11:55 PM

___________________________

greywolf said:

Total count for Obama, wow, so unpredictable. Hoping to see him in the 2300's by sunday night or Monday night at the latest.

June 04, 2008 11:25 AM
__________________________

Kinda like going back and looking at Hillary's Bosina video's LOL ;); June 06, 2008 4:18 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Hippolytus said...

**greywolf's "Hoping to see him in the 2300's by Sunday night..." is too vague. Please submit a specific number.

June 05, 2008 1:29 AM
__________________________

I know it is easy to miss posts on here since there are so many of them - no biggie ;)

Okay now I'm done LOL :)

May the best woman win ;); June 06, 2008 4:28 PM
Uncle John said...: Leah:

Mille grazie! Ciao, bella!; June 06, 2008 4:34 PM
greywolf said...: something interesting for those that want to know what the majority of the Iraq government think about American forces remaining in their country.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/06/05/majority-of-iraqi-legisla_n_105427.html; June 06, 2008 4:44 PM
RobH said...: Greywolf:

The killer sentence in the whole statement was the last one, which ended with this:

"....clear mechanisms that obligate the occupying American military forces to fully withdraw from Iraq, in accordance with a declared timetable and without leaving behind any military bases, soldiers or hired fighters."

Since we went to Iraq with the main objective of establishing military bases near Saudia Arabia so that we can police the flow of oil when the s** hits the fan, this deal would be a crusher for the Bush team. There's no way this is getting "accepted" before Jan '09 (and maybe not after.) Going to be interesting times.; June 06, 2008 5:00 PM
greywolf said...: Leah Texas4Obama said...
greywolf-

I was the one that said 2300 first right after Hippolytus started the game. I must say that by you taking 2301 now and locking me out that it is not very nice - but I won't hold it against you since it is only a silly game.

Good luck with your number.

How would I be locking you out. I actually locked you in... lol your stuck at 2300.... hehehe.

as for the second numbers game proposed by you, lets see.. final number 2375 by sunday midnight.

my hard fast number is 2301 for the current game.

apissedant said...
greywolf,
Look up a name for me. Geoffrey Fieger. He is the reason that Democrats went with

I know about him, but I also believe that a vast majority of Americans are more mature and more responsible than they were in 96. Anyone that voted like that knowingly took a serious risk in that this person would not win.

as for the 50 state campaign.. they do it now in every sense of the word. Except in the case of Clinton, they picked through the states and chose those that they belived would give them the win, but they lost.
They begin campaigning the year before the election, and then go full blown in January to gain greater public exposure. What I propose is no different that what happens every year, except the time of the vote. My position is that inorder to prevent those from voting for someone because they appear to be winning in previous votes, as was the perceived case in some areas this time around. Plus it would prevent the media from trying to spin numbers to sway voters the direction they prefer. WE all know the media plays a very large role in the primary and GE process, we are very fortunate that the candidate of their choice did not prevail. The still even though were told that they have no voice in who the VP is, still continue to spin through polls that Hillary should be the VP. Reality is that MOST Democrats DO NOT believe Hillary should be the VP, yet they spin their own polls to show otherwise. That is one of my major reasons for a national primary and ge day. This way there is no unfair, unrealisticly media spun inflence on the election results. No one can deny that a vast number of voters are heavily influenced by the media, they would rather not make a decision for themselves thus they allow the media to influence their decisions.
As for the campaign financing.. that is something to be worked out .. I would gladly give a few dollars towards a national primary and GE fund. If they start raising money at the end of each GE, there should be plenty come the end if not, there are other avenues that could be explored.; June 06, 2008 5:05 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Attention to everyone-

Would someone that has NOT yet submitted a number for our delegate contest here please pick the number 2302

Thank you ;); June 06, 2008 5:10 PM
JayW said...: Holy Cow....

Fake Game Anger!!!!

Does anyone have a current count?
I am sure there will be a bunch that announce tomorrow after HRC's "gracious" end to her bid.; June 06, 2008 5:11 PM

«Oldest ‹Older 1401 – 1600 of 2132 Newer› Newest»

Welcome to Democratic Convention Watch

Blog Archive

Democratic Convention 2008

Democratic National Convention History

Denver & Colorado Democrats

DCW in the News

Friends of DCW

2008 Republican National Convention

Tuesday, April 01, 2008

Open Thread

2132 comments:

Tags