Democratic Convention Watch: Open Thread

Tuesday, April 01, 2008

Open Thread

WE'VE MOVED! Democratic Convention Watch is now at http://www.DemocraticConventionWatch.com

What is McCain's latest "senior moment", what does Obama need to do to win in November or whatever else is on your mind.

And please be excellent to one another. We do not accept name calling or any attacks on our commenters. Any objectionable comments will be deleted. Try to be civil.

Thanks!

New Open Thread here
This one is now closed for comments.

4188 comments:

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apissedant said...: Dave,
Sorry, you're right... doing too many things at once, I'm a bit ADHD. I decided it was already 2012, wishful thinking I guess. I'd be halfway through my doctorate education, Obama would be running for a second term, and we would be in the midst of erasing the mistakes of the past 8 years. The economy might even be back on track, and the fuel economy might be within 15 gallons per mile of European standards. Ahhh... it sounds so nice and peaceful.; June 20, 2008 11:55 AM
apissedant said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; June 20, 2008 11:58 AM
apissedant said...: Dave,
I'm off to Water Country with prego. It is too warm outside to sit inside. See you guys later!

Oh yeah, and HAHAHA, you're so funny. (grimace)
VBG ;); June 20, 2008 11:58 AM
RobH said...: Apissedant,

You're being a little bit of dick this morning (my opinion only). Implying jp is a republican troll is just too much. Just 'cause he called you a "socialist" doesn't make him a republican troll.

Do your homework. Go back and read his posts from two months before you ever arrived here. C'mon.; June 20, 2008 12:04 PM
Richard said...: I am glad to see Sen. McCain is spending his day campaigning in Ottawa. How many electoral college votes does Canada get again?; June 20, 2008 12:17 PM
Beryl said...: Richard posted:

"I am glad to see Sen. McCain is spending his day campaigning in Ottawa. How many electoral college votes does Canada get again?"

About as many as Vietnam - where Cindy was playing "Mother Theresa" after her shameless jab at Michelle. (What a hypocrite!)

Anyone seen this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFM1xqqTX_g; June 20, 2008 1:24 PM
Keryl said...: A week in Mexico, and I have to say a couple of things.

First, I missed you guys. I missed Al Gore's endorsement (Finally!), and Tim Russert's passing (sad for all of us and for politics in general)

I'm such a cynic it's ridiculous, so it was good to be reminded of what an amazing country we live in. We take so much for granted.

While vacationing was nice, it's impossible to ignore the abject poverty levels in our neighboring country. 50% in poverty, 20% in extreme poverty. Immigration is not a policy point to them, it's life or death. It would be a joke to them to debate the fine points of health care and tax reform. We are so lucky to have such problems.

Just keeping it all in perspective.; June 20, 2008 2:18 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Very nice to see that the boards Obama chant at the top of the page is continuing :)

How exciting it is to see that NM, CO, MO, MI, OH, VA is leaning towards Obama. Florida is now a TIE. And McCain is losing ground in Alaska, NV, GA, and NC!

http://www.electoral-vote.com/

It is going to be a wonderful day ;)

Obama '08; June 20, 2008 3:14 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Beryl- WOW thanks for posting the link http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFM1xqqTX_g

Looks like there's alot we don't know about McCain. Too bad that Obama is running a positive campaign because it looks like there 'might' be a lot of stuff out there that would hurt McCain!; June 20, 2008 3:27 PM
Keryl said...: I have to say after watching the video in the link provided by Beryl/Texas Leah that it seems like a Swift Boat like attack with little fact and lots of people speculating. I didn't like it when they did it to Kerry, and I wouldn't condone these tactics even if it means we lose.; June 20, 2008 4:17 PM
Richard said...: Keryl - I agree wholeheartedly. I hope that Obama remains above such attacks. And I hope beyond hope that McCain will, too.; June 20, 2008 4:31 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Keryl-

The video link at the side said it was from the extras of a documentary.

I don't think there is anything wrong with a bunch of veterans stating what they experienced or what they know or what they think.

Everyone has a right to speak and we have the right to listen and then decide.; June 20, 2008 4:33 PM
jean said...: Keryl,
To put it mildly our life is perfect. I live in San Diego and I know what you are talking about.
We help friends who do a lot of help with an orphanage in TJ.
New Subject
There is a lot about McCain. I only hope that Obama doesn't run a super clean campaign.
I really feel this is gonna be super nasty.
jean; June 20, 2008 4:34 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: And I also wanted to say on that video there are Senators and Representatives that are REPUBLICANS... talking about Senator John McCain blocking the release of classified POW/MIA documents.

I don't see how that can be considered swift boating.

It looks more to me like people coming out and saying what has happened - things that the media don't report on.; June 20, 2008 4:39 PM
jean said...: Richard
Does it concern you in the head to head polls that there is little change for Obama?
I would figure it would be hitting by now.
jean; June 20, 2008 4:40 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Another video from the same McCain documentary:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBiti-ZbeO0

.; June 20, 2008 4:47 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: jean-

I am not sure what you are talking about - if you look at the head to head polls per state Obama has made a lot of gains in the past week.

http://www.electoral-vote.com/

McCain's camp, I am sure, is starting to worry about their candidate.

I've even heard that there is a big chance that the Republicans might pick someone else at their convention.; June 20, 2008 4:51 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Here is a good link that has a graph for each state all on one page that shows who is going up and who is going down from January thru now:

http://www.electoral-vote.com/evp2008/Pres/Graphs/all.html

It helps to put it all in perspective.; June 20, 2008 4:56 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: jean-

How can you say there hasn't been any change when NM, CO, MO, MI, OH, VA are now leaning towards Obama. Florida is now a TIE. And McCain is also losing ground in Alaska, NV, GA, and NC.

That looks like BIG change to me :); June 20, 2008 5:01 PM
jean said...: leah
I know he is ahead but in the general election he is 3.8-5%.
I see that he is gaining in some states.
I am supporting him.
I just think there is a concern.
This is going to get ugly.
As we know McCain has said no to negative campaigning but they still keep publishing the commercials. I do not think McCain will say no much longer.
jean; June 20, 2008 5:03 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: jean-

I don't think there is any reason to worry. It is the Electoral Votes that will count and right now Obama has many many more 'solid' and 'leaning' states than McCain does - and a huge number of Evs compared to McCain. You can get a better idea of Obama's support by looking at the states than you do by the national poll.

If you keep your eye on the General Election Tracker

http://www.demconwatchblog.com/2008/06/general-election-tracker-june-18.html

it will make you feel better ;); June 20, 2008 5:08 PM
jean said...: Let me put it this way.
There is no relection of increase in the general election poll; June 20, 2008 5:10 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: jean said: "Let me put it this way.
There is no relection of increase in the general election poll"
__________________

jean-

That may be true.
But the general election poll reflects what the popular vote might be. And the popular vote will not have anything to do with who wins.

If EVERYONE in the states that McCain wins were to vote for only McCain... McCain will still lose.

The only thing that matters is who wins the individual states and therefore wins the EVs of that state and who gets 270 EVs wins!; June 20, 2008 5:15 PM
jean said...: OK ,I meant reflection.
The fingers did it, not me:); June 20, 2008 5:17 PM
Richard said...: Jean, I think there is very little point to national polling. The famous national tracking polls are meaningless in November. As others have said, what is important is state trends, and those are very encouraging.

Besides, national polls show people much preferring a Democrat to a Republican, and now that the primary is over Obama's numbers will gradually start to reflect that as people accept that he is the nominee. There are many months to go.; June 20, 2008 5:24 PM
jean said...: Richard,
I live in a sea of Republicans.
They really do believe that he is the anti-christ.
I am a banker and I really love it when the #'s match.
jean; June 20, 2008 5:27 PM
jean said...: Richard
I need to review that link.
At first glance it looks great.
I need to pick up kids from practice.
105 in the middle of the day and having practice.
STUPID.
jean; June 20, 2008 5:43 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: jean -

Here ya go ...

Newly released Newsweek national poll:

Obama 51%
McCain 36%

Yahooooo ;); June 20, 2008 5:49 PM
Karen Anne said...: http://www.newsweek.com/id/142465/page/1

"A new NEWSWEEK Poll shows that he has a substantial double-digit lead, 51 percent to 36 percent, over McCain among registered voters nationwide...

Women voters in the new poll prefer him over McCain by 21 points (54 percent versus 33 percent)...

Registered independents have also moved toward Obama, backing him by a 48 percent to 36 percent margin after splitting about evenly in last month's poll...

62 percent of voters overall say they have a favorable opinion of him compared to only 26 percent who have an unfavorable opinion. By comparison, McCain's ratings are 49 percent favorable to 37 percent unfavorable"; June 20, 2008 6:28 PM
jean said...: Leah
COOOOOOOOOOOOOOLLLLLLLLLLLLLL!!!!!!!!!
The #'s had to come soon.
And Happy Birthday.
If you remember I followed the #'s for HRC and admitted it was over way before most supporters.
I am now having a good day.
Thanks jean; June 20, 2008 6:41 PM
jean said...: Leah
I know it is not your Birthday.
It is a phrase in Baseball when the player catches it and doesn't know it till he opens the glove.
"Happy Birthday" ;); June 20, 2008 6:54 PM
Mike in Maryland said...: Jean,

To get a good idea of the polls on a state by state level, go to http://www.pollster.com . The state links show who did the poll and when, and the rolling average trend line of the polls when several polls have been taken.

The site also gives poll results for governorship and senatorial races.

Mike; June 20, 2008 7:40 PM
ed iglehart said...: Voters changing their minds?

"The new poll finds that only 14 percent of Americans say they are satisfied with the direction of the country. That matches the previous low point on this measure recorded in June 1992, when a brief recession contributed to Bill Clinton's victory over Bush's father, incumbent George H.W. Bush. Overall, voters see Obama as the preferred agent of "change" by a margin of 51 percent to 27 percent. Younger voters, in particular, are more likely to see Obama that way: those 18 to 39 favor the Illinois senator by 66 percent to 27 percent. The two candidates are statistically tied among older voters."

Newsweek gives Obama a 15 point lead among registered voters nationwide.

;-)
ed; June 20, 2008 7:50 PM
JayW said...: So....

I haven't been on at all the last few days, kind of busy at work and at home. Did get a chance to see an awesome Pearl Jam concert last night though... Eddie is definitely an Obama supporter.

Anyway, I last posted asking StopO (or any of the other die hard Obama hater's) if he wanted to bet ont he general election. I stated that I would take Obama and cover any and all bets. Did he take me up on that? I didnt see anything. What about anone else?

See, just a bunch of shit talkers... no real conviction. The offer is still open to anyone that would like to place a wager. Let me know and we can set up the specifics.

Anyway, wore the Obama 08 shirt to the concert last night... got tons of great positive feedback, no negative at all.

Obama 08!!!; June 20, 2008 8:16 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Open Thread Electoral Vote Contest

The closer the election is the easier to guess the winning number will be.
So we will have a cut off date for number submissions of July 13th 11:59pm.
Duplicate number guesses will be allowed since there are only so many combinations available.
The list reflects the number of EVs for Obama (vs. McCain).

Submissions so far:

Mr. Propaganda 251
Emma - 300
Richard - 304
tmess2 - 315
RobH - 317 (1)
apissedant - 317 (2)
JayW - 269
softspoken22 - 298
Oregon Dem - 332
Leah - 345
Emit R Detsaw - 429
Independent voter - 538

Anyone that submits an early guess will be allowed to add (but not change) a second guess October 1st - 3rd. The early guess will be our main contest. The second guess will be considered a separate contest.; June 20, 2008 8:33 PM
Meg said...: Hi all:

Spent the afternoon at the vet. Our lab has swallowed what looks on the x-ray like a mangled paper clip.

Spent dinner talking to my 15 year old daughter about Obama and McCain. I'm thrilled that she's so interested and informed. She really thinks that young people will vote in droves this year.

McCain talks about drilling off the coast of my state as if it were an immediate solution to gas prices. It takes 10 years to get a rig up and running.

About the EV guesses, Leah I just pulled a number out of the air. I didn't actually add up state numbers. What if my 300 is actually not possible? How about closest to the actual number without going over?; June 20, 2008 8:56 PM
jean said...: I will go with 311.
jean; June 20, 2008 8:59 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: jean- I added your number. Thanks.

Emma - the winner will be who ever is closest - exact or under or over. We'll just keep it simple and fun ;); June 20, 2008 9:09 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: For those of ya'll that want to add up the EVs of the states you can click on the General Election Tracker link at the top left of the page. There is a map there that you can click on to change the states to blue and red and gray and it tells you the total number of what you pick.; June 20, 2008 9:14 PM
stopOBAMAnow said...: Hello There:

FYI

For the week ending Friday 20 June, about 410K voters entered the AOL Straw Poll and

56% favored McCain
44% favored Obama (aol.com).

I know some of you will hit the roof on this.

I admit there may be some mischief by Obama lovers. Taking the average of all polls, I give

McCain 52% and Obama 47% and Nader and Barr 1%.

This is when the Congress gets 18% and Dubya gets 28% approval ratings.

This proves to me that McCain is NOT Dubya or the Conservative GOP. He is a mainstream fiscal conservative - the part I like the most.

On NAFTA, Obama is moving to the Center. It's good for me. But, must be bad for people in MI, PA and OH where he said he was dead against NAFTA.

On Public Financing of GE, he again flip-flopped. This is very bad. He is breaking nearly 30 years of compliance record by both parties. Clearly, BHO believed in his money power. Remember, with all the money in the world - outspending 3:1 in the Primaries of TX, PA, OH, TN, KY, WV and PR he could NOT win over HRC. This could very well happen against McCain, who won against the vast personal wealth of Mitt.

Money cannot win over Message.

BHO does NOT have the Message, IMO.

He may want HRC to campaign for him. But, I don't want her sweat for this Bleeding Far Left Liberal Ideologue who believes in Big Government and "Tax the Rich and Feed the Rest" philosophy, which is anti-growth and anti-productivity and anti-prosperity in America.

Stay tuned.; June 20, 2008 9:43 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: stopO said: "Stay tuned."
____________________

We've all already changed the channel ;)

OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA '08; June 20, 2008 9:50 PM
stopOBAMAnow said...: "We've all already changed the channel ;)"

Good humor, anyway!

Your other comrades must get the message!!; June 20, 2008 10:03 PM
Mike in Maryland said...: StoopO,

Vedy funny, you.

Now don't let the door hit you on your way out.

Mike; June 20, 2008 10:16 PM
stopOBAMAnow said...: "Vedy funny, you".

Rodent:

I am NOT leaving. I am in the Room giving trouble to you and other Bleeding Liberals!; June 20, 2008 10:19 PM
jean said...: Please
NOONE ANSWER HIM!
You are just as guilty if you enable him.
jean; June 20, 2008 10:26 PM
jean said...: Leah
I think you should do the electorial votes just like the Price Is Right.
One under wins one over loses:)
jean; June 20, 2008 10:45 PM
Richard said...: Just a word of caution about Newsweek polls: Newsweek uses a registered voter model, which is usually much less predictive of actual election results than the likely voter models used by most pollsters for their general election polling. In other words, Newsweek doesn't use questions about past and future voting behavior to filter out those who say they would vote for Obama but who aren't at all likely actually to go to the polls.; June 20, 2008 11:54 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: DCW has posted an updated General Election Tracker.

For the person that asked about the 'Obama Index' earlier today (maybe Karen Anne) here is what DCW has to say about it:

What is the Obama Index? The Overall DCW Obama Index is just a straight average of the Obama Index for each projection. What is the Obama Index for each projection? For all projections other than FiveThirtyEight, the Obama Index gives Obama 100% of the Electoral Votes (EVs) in a state that is solid for him, 80% of the EVs for a leaner, 50% of the EVs for a Tossup, and 20% of the EVs for state that is McCain-Lean. (And obviously 0% of the Solid McCain states). For FiveThirtyEight, we use his overall estimate of Obama's EVs. (See below for how we determine FiveThirtyEight's state projections).

FiveThirtyEight state projections determined from state winning percentage (>90%: Strong, 65-90%: Lean, 50-65%: Tossup).; June 21, 2008 12:17 AM
Independent Voter said...: So NOBODY goes ballistic this is another funny e-mail I got today - disclosure TOTALLY UNRELATED TO POLITICS. After seeing this I'm not so sure I want to get married.....EVER....LOL

The Sweetness of Married Life

A couple had only been married for two weeks and the husband although very much in love, couldn't wait to go out on the town and party with his old buddies.

So, he said to his new wife, "Honey, I'll be right back."

"Where are you going, Coochy Coo?" asked the wife.

"I'm going to the bar, Pretty Face," he answered. I'm going to have a beer."

The wife said, "You want a beer, my love?" She opened the door to the refrigerator and showed him 25 different kinds of beer, brands from 12 different countries: Germany, Holland, Japan, India, etc The husband didn't know what to do, and the only thing that he could think of saying was, "Yes, Lollipop... But at the bar... You know...they have frozen glasses... "

He didn't get to finish the sentence, because the wife interrupted him by saying, "You want a frozen glass, Puppy Face?" She took a huge beer mug out of the freezer, so frozen that she was getting chills just holding it.

The husband, looking a bit pale, said, "Yes, Tootsie Roll, but at the bar they have those hors d'oeuvres that are really delicious... I won't be long. I'll be right back. I promise. OK?"

You want hors d'oeuvres, Poochie Pooh?" She opened the oven and took out 5 dishes of different hors d'oeuvres: chicken wings, pigs in blankets, mushroom caps, and little quiches.

"But my sweet honey... At the bar.... You know there's swearing, dirty words and all that..."

"You want dirty words, Cutie Pie? LISTEN UP CHICKEN SHIT! SIT YOUR ASS DOWN, SHUT THE HELL UP, DRINK YOUR BEER IN YOUR FROZEN MUG AND EAT YOUR HORS D'OEUVRES BECAUSE YOUR MARRIED ASS ISN'T GOING TO A DAMNED BAR! THAT SHIT IS OVER, GOT IT, JACKASS?"

And...they lived happily ever after. Isn't that a sweet story?

MARRIED LIFE - MAKES MY EYES TEAR UP; June 21, 2008 1:25 AM
Independent Voter said...: you like that leah...LOL; June 21, 2008 1:36 AM
Yamaka said...: To ALL Democrats and Original Thinkers:

How are you all doing?

I prefer the Fair Tax (at 30% exclusive rate, the way State Sales Tax is calculated in TX and FL: forget the 23% inclusive rate, which confuses everybody) because:

1. It is revenue neutral AND abolishes ALL forms of income tax (including corporate tax, FICA, gift and estate taxes).

2. This will discourage consumption and encourage savings and investments - good for new business expansion and development.

3. Since all the hidden taxes (corporate tax, tax evasion costs etc.)on the goods are eliminated the cost of goods could very well go down as much as 20% pre-tax. This means the NET tax on goods will be much lower (exclusive rate). That is, whatever costs now $100 could go down to $80 and you will pay with 30% tax only $104 (This amounts to only 4% tax of the current cost of goods). This is very very important, IMO.

4. Since a prebate to the level of HHS Poverty Level (taking into a/c the size of the family) is given in advance, low income people (including Seniors on SS income)will not suffer.

5. All the tax deferred assets (401 K and 403 b) will escape any income tax - you pay tax only when you consume it.

5. There is a very high probability that the businesses will get a shot in the arm and the GDP growth could be 4-5% a year. This will create tons of new job opportunities. This will be a win-win for ALL.

So, where is the problem?

____________________________

Stop O Now:

I read all your posts. Interesting.

Keep writing.

Don't worry about the opposition you get at this Site. Most of the resident activists here are Liberal Ideologues, as you know better now.

They cannot stand your moniker/pen name, which you may consider changing!

Don't engage Indy. He gets on your nerves! He is just a struggling student! When he joins the workforce he will mellow down.

I see "RodentinMD" gives you also trouble! Just ignore him. He thinks he knows everything in this wide world! But, he reads a lot, since he is retired. Sometimes, I see him at the "Economist". Most of his views are just plain old borrowed thoughts from someone else! Nothing original.

I see you also like the Fair Tax! Good.

Cheers. :-); June 21, 2008 1:54 AM
Independent Voter said...: Yam, do you always respond to yourself or just on blogs?; June 21, 2008 2:34 AM
Mike in Maryland said...: Ever wonder why the US is losing ground in the science knowledge our middle and high school students have?

Maybe because of actions like this:
http://dispatch.com/live/content/local_news/stories/2008/06/19/mtvernon.html?sid=101

For additional information on this incident (actually multiple incidents), go to Google News and enter 'John Freshwater' in the search box. The number of articles is now at 675 and still rising.

Mike; June 21, 2008 2:49 AM
Independent Voter said...: Mike, thanks for posting that. That is so frickin' disturbing!

Burning crosses into their arms, and then claiming they were X's? What the f is that? It doesn't matter whether they were crosses or X's, why the hell was he branding them in the first place? I think someone should shave his head and brand him with 666.

As far as him teaching ID - which there is nothing intelligent about it as far as I'm concerned, why in the hell didn't the school district investigate sooner? 11 years people have been complaining and nothing was done. WOW! Sounds like something yam/stop (same person - split personality) would do.; June 21, 2008 3:00 AM
Karen Anne said...: Emma,

Yikes, how is your dog doing?; June 21, 2008 5:57 AM
Karen Anne said...: Is anyone worried about the "only" $22 mil raised? I haven't been keeping track of when I donated, but I probably did more when you know who got me furious. I forked out some more when I read the $22 mil number.; June 21, 2008 6:32 AM
Roger said...: Off Shore Oil Drilling Survey

If you knew that twenty or thirty years from now China and other major countries might go to war with the United States over oil, would you say that we should deplete all our remaining oil reserves now to lower gas prices, or would you say that we should keep them in the ground in case we have to fight a third world war?; June 21, 2008 7:26 AM
Karen Anne said...: Off Shore Oil Drilling Survey

I would say we ought to develop the heck out of alternative energy technologies and share what we learn.; June 21, 2008 7:34 AM
ed iglehart said...: IV, Thanks for a real laugh out loud!

And, from my favourite denizen of Wall Street:

"THIS ISN'T THE 1970S; ERGO, INFLATION IS NOT A WORRY.

We find that sentence freighted with interest, and not only because we wrote it. What's intriguing, as well, is that it contains two clauses, one of which is indisputably true, the other as clearly a non sequitur as you could ever hope to come across.

What's also striking about the sentence is that it offers a striking example of how economists think (or, at least, make a pretense of doing so) and why their perceptions are often so alien to what's actually going on.
...
As it happens, our trusty dictionary, in fact, defines inflation as: "A persistent increase in the level of consumer prices or a persistent decline in the purchasing power of money, caused by an increase in available currency and credit beyond the proportion of goods and services."
...
We'll forgo once again listing the various and sundry conjuring tricks used to make inflation officially invisible and content ourselves with brief notice of a few of the more egregious ones. Like, of course, banishing oil prices from the anointed inflation measure -- the sacred mythical core -- because they're too "volatile."

Volatile means wide and frequent changes up and down. The price of crude has risen for six and a half years in a row, from $20 a barrel to $135 barrel, and during this extended span it experienced only one rather brief and relatively modest decline worthy of mention.

That's volatility?

Food prices -- which you may have noticed have been on a tear for quite a spell now and, according to the latest consumer-price index, rocketed upward in May alone -- are also conveniently excluded by that purposively myopic crew from their pristine reckonings of inflation because of volatility.

Add to the more serious sins of the no-inflationiks a tendency to overlook or shrug off the inexorably mounting cost of health care.... "Alan Abelson

OR, if that page won't load, try THIS.

Alan Abelson is without a doubt my favourite acerbic commentator on the intricacies, conceits and deceits of the financial jungle. I thoroughly recommend a visit to his version of Wall Street.; June 21, 2008 8:14 AM
ed iglehart said...: And, as we discuss the possibility of drilling offshore to supply our addiction to ever-increasing doses of fossil energy,

I do feel sorry for all those unfortunate Americans who just can't face any reduction in a lifestyle which, together with the rest of the "West", consumes four fifths of the annual ripoff of Earth's resources for the benefit of one fifth of her people.

Poor things! Have pity on them...

Imagine we're sitting at one of five great tables - the one with four fifths of all the food heaped on it. At each of the other five tables sit the same number of people as at ours, but sharing one twentieth as much food. (They have to make do with one fifth of the total spread over four tables)

Now the PA system announces that next time we sit down to dinner there isn't going to be quite as much to "share out", and from our table rises a great tumult of complaint...."We can't possibly do with any less!"

;-)
ed

"a long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial appearance of being right, and raises at first a formidable outcry in defence of custom. "

Tom Paine, as previously noted.; June 21, 2008 8:18 AM
ed iglehart said...: Roger,
"would you say that we should deplete all our remaining oil reserves now to lower gas prices, "

Our reserves are incapable of having any noticeable effect on gas prices.

The largest of them, much touted by the "endless oil" gang, in the Gulf of Mexico, at it's most optimistic assessment of 15 billion barrels, would cover 714 days US consumption (21 million bbl/day), slightly more than two years worth.

The other big bragging reserve in the Dakotas and Saskatchewan, was recently assessed by USGS at less than 4 billion bbl, so that's worth another 190 days - half a year.....

May I reccommend the excellent essay, "Energy and Equity" by Ivan Illich:
[begin quote]The advocates of an energy crisis believe in and continue to propagate a peculiar vision of man. According to this notion, man is born into perpetual dependence on slaves which he must painfully learn to master. If he does not employ prisoners, then he needs machines to do most of his work. According to this doctrine, the well-being of a society can be measured by the number of years its members have gone to school and by the number of energy slaves they have thereby learned to command. This belief is common to the conflicting economic ideologies now in vogue. It is threatened by the obvious inequity, harriedness, and impotence that appear everywhere once the voracious hordes of energy slaves outnumber people by a certain proportion. The energy crisis focuses concern on the scarcity of fodder for these slaves. I prefer to ask whether free men need them. [end quote]

Just for thinking.
xx
ed; June 21, 2008 8:31 AM
Karen Anne said...: Okay, this isn't civil, so it will probably be deleted.

I just ran across the fact that Cindy McCain is only 54. I had assumed from her appearance (hello, Cindy and Joan Rivers, twins separated at birth) that she was much older. So, way thin, under the knife way too much, hair bleached to straw.

What's with these women? I wonder what she'd look like with twenty more pounds, no plastic surgery, and her own hair, so to speak. A lot better and more human, I bet.

I wonder what kind of self image someone has when they do that to themselves? Maybe now I understand why she stayed with McCain after he called her the c word, instead of kicking his butt out the door.

I am suddenly very glad I am neither Cindy McCain or Hillary. No woman deserves husbands like those.; June 21, 2008 9:10 AM
jean said...: Karen,
The look is called being "Fully Processed"
Since it takes a lot of money etc. many like that look.
My husband hates it and wishes make-up was never made.
Though he doesn't mind high heels
LOL.
jean; June 21, 2008 9:30 AM
Meg said...: Karen:

Thanks for asking. Dog's fine today. Labs have amazing energy! We will have to get the thing removed. Yuk.

Cindy is very sweet. I saw her on Leno. She got her pilot's license some years ago without John's knowledge. Personally, I would find it hard to go out to the airfield regularly, get my hours in, and study for tests without my husband at least asking what I was up to. Maybe they don't talk much.

Glad to see people are not taking the STOPYAM bait. What a nut. I think it's odd that he chose psychiatry for his "profession". Somehow he doesn't strike me as much of a listener.

You all going to watch "Meet The Press" tomorrow?; June 21, 2008 9:34 AM
Meg said...: I noticed that Maine and Nebraska assign their EV's ina way that is different from the rest of the country! How is that possible and why is it done that way?; June 21, 2008 9:46 AM
stopOBAMAnow said...: Hello There:

By any chance

emma = jean = karen? They all think and write alike!! Or

apiss = Indy? They are just students, very naive like BHO is.

I feel sorry for emma's students. What could they possibly learn from this potty mouth?
lol

First I thought leah inTx was very mean; I changed my mind now after listening to emma, karen and jean. She is one of the nice persons at this Site! But she adores BHO way too much! A gook supporter MUST point out potential flaw of the Candidate also, IMO.
______________________________--

Hi Yamaka:

Your points on Fair Tax are very well taken. Especially, your view that cost of goods could go DOWN as much as 20%, and your calculation that we may pay a Fair Tax of only about 4% at the end is thought provoking. Man, you know how to read things!

I know Corporations employ an army of accountants to bring down their "taxable income". If there is no Corporate tax, then this massive expenditure on at least 80% of the accountants will be eliminated, thus the cost of goods can go down as much as 20%. Brilliant insight.

Our Bleeding Left Liberal Ideologues must think hard on Fair Tax and other such novel ways of re-engineering our tax code in such a way we spur economic growth, which is the only way to bring prosperity to America, NOT by Big Govt and "Tax and Spend" Ideology.

I hope McCain listens to Hucka and gives serious thoughts on Fair Tax. This could very well change the tone of this Election.

McCain is excellent on National Security and Foreign policy (Nearly 60% of Americans believe this). If he espouses the Fair Tax, then he will revolutionize/re-energize our failing economy. America will grow at a warping speed of 4-5% a year. Win-Win for ALL, as you said.

Yamaka, vote for McCain. Junk BHO.

BHO = Inexperienced = Risky for American Security and the Economy.

He is a Big Spender, not a wealth creator. He is into income/wealth re-distribution business, like his friends Kerry, Kennedy, Mondale, Carter etc.

----------------------------

RodentinMD:

Your view on taxing short term investors a much higher tax (like 50-80% more than others) is the most ridiculous idea I have ever heard.

I like what jp wrote on this. He is correct.

They are taxed at the full marginal rate. That's fine. Not more. You want to be punitive. That's horrendous.

But, I would increase the time horizon from 1 year to 3 years to get a favorable 15% on div and cap gain (I will call 3 years a long term investment).; June 21, 2008 10:43 AM
apissedant said...: Robh,
First off... read back, he (jp) in one way or another, called me a liar, an idiot, a socialist, and a few other things.

I am none of these things, and his socialist claim comes from me advocating a progressive tax system, like we have.

He advocates the fairtax and refuses to agree it is a 30% sales tax. He complains about taxing the rich. He uses social security interest to pay down the national debt, and thinks that's ok.

Well all of those things are Republican, so I don't mind calling him a Republican troll. If he chooses to advocate Republican programs, then I'll call it as I see it. At the very least, it can be no worse then him bastardizing my belief in a mixed economy, by calling it a socialist system.

I do realize he has posted a few liberal things a few weeks ago, so what? The fiscal policy he is advocating is completely Republican, and fiscal policy is a rather important part of party affiliation.; June 21, 2008 11:18 AM
jean said...: Independant,
Did you see the Obama seal that they are showing on CNN.
It is under politics and then the ticker.
Wow.
I am not sure that was a good idea.
jean; June 21, 2008 11:35 AM
Independent Voter said...: ed, you're welcome for the "LOL".

Emma, Yam is a liar, yep I'm calling it like it is.

All one has to do is click on his name and it takes you to his profile. Under "Industry" he says Biotech. And since he says his occupation says "Research Scientist" - when these are put together, he is not a psychiatrist, he's just a moron who was able to get a BS degree (pun intended).

In fact here is how his profile is listed:

Yamaka

* Gender: Male
* Astrological Sign: Aries
* Industry: Biotech
* Occupation: Research Scientist
* Location: Houston : TX; June 21, 2008 11:42 AM
Independent Voter said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; June 21, 2008 11:50 AM
Meg said...: Jean:

I'm not sure it was a good idea, either. "vero possumus" I would guess is "Yes, we can" in Latin.

Indy:

StopYam must get something out of posting here. Look how long his posts are. I don't think I've ever been called a "potty mouth" before. Very mature.; June 21, 2008 11:51 AM
Independent Voter said...: jean,

Ya I saw it yesterday. No I don't think it was a good move. Personally I thought it was kind of ugly for a logo, and WAY too big.

On a side note, Who in the hell turned on the frickin' flames out here? Yesterday was a scorcher and the way it looks today is going to be the same :(

Is John McSatan in town or something?

I almost broke down and turned the AC on yesterday, but I resisted...I'm glad I did but DAMN! And your poor son has to play in baseball in it. UGH poor thing. At least he's young and doesn't mind getting sweatin' a little (ok a lot)

We are supposed to be going through June gloom right now?; June 21, 2008 11:52 AM
Independent Voter said...: Sorry Emma, I just had to delete and repost, had way too many typos in the first one. LOL :); June 21, 2008 11:54 AM
jean said...: emma,
I agree. If he is trying to win over the conservative this will not work.
Independant,
I don't like the logo either.
Ok,yes, I did it. I turned on the AC.
The son is in Del Mar right now playing and then he is playing in Murrieta. It is supposed to be
110.
I cancelled all his games for tomorrow. It is too much with this heat.
I am part indian but the son looks exactly like his father.
He is a WHITE boy and if you put a turtleneck on him it looks like he should be on a german U boat. He does not due well in the heat.; June 21, 2008 12:01 PM
Independent Voter said...: jean, LOL about the turtleneck comment.

Good for you on cancelling tomorrow's games. Just make sure they stay well hydrated. :); June 21, 2008 12:07 PM
Yamaka said...: Hello Folks:

Good morning.

From this mornings WSJ:

1. Jim Webb may get the VP slot with BHO. Is it good or bad?

2. If BHO gets Webb, I suspect Carly Fiorina will get the VP with McCain. How do you like it? A powerful counter punch, I suppose.

3. If McCain goes for a generous prebate (like 25k a family of 4)and the Fair Tax, the entire IRS will be eliminated. This means no Apr 15 fear, no keeping records, no tax on income, savings, investments etc. Only high consumption will be taxed. This will bring all the businesses back to US, we will achieve full employment, and US will be prosperous. A win-win for ALL.

4. The current NET worth of American household is 58 trillion dollars (as per the Fed Reserve). I used 220 million adults for this calculation:

58000000 /220 = $263,636 per adult in US.

This means if you have been a productive adult you should have a NET asset of $263K. If not, ask yourself what's wrong with you?

(About myself, I have done a very good job because my NET worth is lot lot higher than this $263K; with my wife our NET worth reaches 10X of this!!!!

______________________________

Indy:

Do you know what MD, PhDs do?

MDs treat patients, PhDs do research.

In this country there about 2000 MD plus PhDs (the cream of the cream out of all professions); these are the New Bree Apart, if you know what it means.

That should answer your curiosity about me! I treat neurologically impaired patients as an MD, AND do cutting edge research on how people gain memory during "learning", and how and why they lose it in Alzheimer's disease as a PhD.

Yes, it should be beyond your imagination and expertise; you are one struggling student to get your BA!

Get your BA soon and join the workforce. Good luck.

(But, clean your potty mouth, for a change).

________________________________

Cheers. :-); June 21, 2008 12:11 PM
Yamaka said...: Oooops:

Please read "New Breed Apart".

A typo.; June 21, 2008 12:16 PM
jpsedona said...: For those of you who want a quick understanding of taxation on dividends & taxes...

For those of you have never looked at wierd tax rates, look at the Fed corporate tax rate tables. Smaller income corporations can pay at a higher tax rate (39%) than the largest companies (35% top rate).

Assume that you have a large corporation, their fed tax rate is 35%. Depending upon the state, you can also end up paying as much as 12% to the state.

Assume that the combined rate (fed & state) is 45%. For each $100, the corporation pays $45. Let's assume that $50 of $55 in income is paid out as a dividend. Also assume that the company does not payout any $ from retained earnings (i.e. no capital gain distributions).

As a stockholder, you pay dividends at your personal income tax rate. So, if your effective combined fed & state income tax rate is 30%, then you pay $15 on a dividend of $50.

So, a portion of that $100 in earnings of the corporation is effectively double taxed. Once at the corporate rate and the portion distributed as a dividend at your personal income tax rate.

So in this example, of each $100 distributed in this example, $60 went to taxes; $45 at the corporate level and $15 at the presonal level. That's a combined 60%.

And who pays the $45 in corporate taxes? Consumers do. You end up paying these taxes through higher prices.

In this example, a shareholder is receiving $40 in return for $100 in corporate income ($35 in dividends and $5 in retained earnings). But this loss in dividends is made up for in part through the corporation raising prices to generate higher income to offset corporate tax burdens.

Eliminating the corporate tax and changing the tax rate at the individual rate on dividend distributions would shift the burden to the owners of the corporation -- the shareholders.; June 21, 2008 12:22 PM
jean said...: Independant,
Ignoring previous statement.
I have a pool and had 3 full sets of familys yesterday and I was not even home. My phone was ringing off the hook.
The parents are responsible and I trust them.
The nice part is they all dropped by this morning and brought me flowers.
I think I am going to get more guest today;); June 21, 2008 12:25 PM
Independent Voter said...: Um, Stop/Yam, I am NOT struggling to get my BA, I'm doing quite well.

I had been a part of the work force for years. I was booted out of the military due to your hero's horrid actions of going back on his word in '92 when he signed DADT.

Further I lost 2 jobs due to his reckless disregard for American workers when he signed NAFTA (WITHOUT ANY protections to American workers). That is what YOUR hero did to people like me.

As far as I'm concerned you (yam) and your alter-ego (stop) are on ignore because you are both WORTHLESS when it comes to politics.

Whether you are a psychiatrist, as you claim, (which I still have my doubts) you aren't too bright when it comes to politics, that is obvious.; June 21, 2008 12:25 PM
jpsedona said...: Apiss,

I never called you an idiot. If I did please provide a quote.

I believe that your philosophies are socialist in nature. That you espouse ideas that underscore European socialist values, not American capitalist values.

I also believe that your initial claim that the Yam's flat tax wouldn't cover the national debt & "the" war was uninformed and when challenged, you equivocated.

I believe in the better nature of my fellow citizens; you've shown nothing but contempt for those who work hard and want to provide a better future to their children than they had.

I believe that you favor a complete redistribution of wealth. I don't believe that you value hard work or rewarding people who do work hard and are able succeed.; June 21, 2008 12:36 PM
stopOBAMAnow said...: Hi Yamaka:

Your writings on the NET worth of American household is very interesting.

I thought after the recent Real Estate and Capital Market losses the NET worth has gone down a couple of trillions, from 58 T to perhaps 56 T. Even so, using your calculation it should be:

56000000/220 = $254,545 per voting adult in US.

Well Yamaka, you have done very well. Congrats, Man.

But I am slowing moving up the ladder. Yes, my family has reached this milestone and beyond. These numbers are useful in the sense to check your performance against a bench mark of average household.

Remember, there are households whose NET worth is upto -250 K $. What say you about those people? Bunch of losers or misfortunate or they goofed big time in their life strategy?! I say a combination of ALL. Mostly because many of those people chose No College Education. And those with College Degree, who opted for "Soft Majors" which has no demand in the market place! These people need Govt subsidies and handouts!!

This is NOT a class warfare or rhetoric. But just a simple fact of NOT planning their economic life right, IMO.

Your suggestion that if Jim Webb is chosen as BHO's VP then McCain should pick Carly Fiorina as his VP is very mischievous, I suppose.

With Carly, McCain will beat BHO like a drum!

Are you still going for BHO?

____________________________

jp:

Your calculation is excellent on tax on dividends. Sure, dividends are taxed twice at least!

As a matter of fairness, I will propose

1. Eliminate State and Fed tax on Dividends (since it is already taxed at the appropriate rate)

2. Make 3 years time horizon as "Long Term" and tax the Long Term Cap Gain at 15%. Any gain during shorter period must be taxed at regular marginal rate (NOT more than that, as someone suggested).; June 21, 2008 1:15 PM
Richard said...: Why are people still dignifying Stop/Yam with responses after his racist comments of last night?; June 21, 2008 1:32 PM
Meg said...: Richard:

It's the audacity of hope that he will actually engage in a dialog.; June 21, 2008 1:36 PM
stopOBAMAnow said...: richard, emma and other Socialists at this Site:

Your Messiah has said, "Strong Govt hand is needed to assure that wealth is distributed more equitably".

How is he going to achieve this, anyway? "Taxing the Rich and Feeding the Rest?"

I have said before that you and your Candidate are interested in NOT creating NEW wealth but just re-distributing the existing wealth.

Unlike the Clintons, who said, "We must First INCREASE the size of the PIE before we carve it". With this attitude they formulated the Clintonomics which created 22 million jobs and a GDP growth of 3.75% a year with a very strong dollar. That's the policy we need now.

Not the failed policies of Carter, which BHO embraces every day!

Do you see the world of difference between the Clintons and BHO?

BHO is just NOT electable, period. The AOL Straw Poll (the less adulterated direct polling of 410K American voters) confirms this.

Stay tuned.

richard:

What was the racist comment I said last night?

I believe race, gender and age will have some impact on this and any other Election, whether you like it or not. Be real, please.; June 21, 2008 1:56 PM
Dilbuck said...: I will take Obama with 290.; June 21, 2008 2:14 PM
jean said...: Richard
I don't know.

Again I just don't know.; June 21, 2008 2:19 PM
jean said...: Richard
Do you think Obama is going to pull his new logo?
I hope so.
jean; June 21, 2008 2:22 PM
apissedant said...: Leah,
Why is Mr. Propaganda banking on a loss?

Mike,
That is a disturbing piece, thanks for showing it to us all. It is amazing that that went on for 11 years up north with no intervention. It looks like a very small, and very poor town.
http://www.city-data.com/city/Mount-Vernon-Ohio.html
Going to be hard to build themselves up and make better futures for themselves if they're not getting a proper education.

Dave,
Cute story.

Yam,
Very good post. I am impressed. That is an honest, intelligent defense of what you believe in. I still disagree with your opinion, but I can respect your opinion if stated honestly and intelligently.
I disagree with your numbers, but they are all guesses and estimations. This means you are not lying, you are just guessing a different number. I can live with that.; June 21, 2008 2:31 PM
JayW said...: StopO....

You still havent responded to my offer to bet on the general election.

No doubt it is because you KNOW Obama will win.

If you want to bet against him, let me know... I will cover any bet.

Of course, by not betting you prove to everyone on here that even you believe that Obama will win and that your rantings are just meant to anger people.

So sad that you are so wrong, so often.; June 21, 2008 2:39 PM
apissedant said...: Ed,
Still love your comments, but I would like to point out one thing... I completely agree that the west as a whole are gluttons and need to come back to nature and reality, because the earth cannot sustain our current demands. However, this can't be done overnight. We need rehab. We need to ween off of our dependence. If we quit cold turkey, many of us would die, and we would probably drag quite a bit of the world down with us.
Steps need to be taken, but I believe in baby steps. Instantaneous revolutionary change rarely works out well.; June 21, 2008 2:43 PM
apissedant said...: jp,
Again, you have chosen to twist my words. I never said you called me an "idiot." I said, "in one way or another."
My statement means you implied I'm an idiot. Your misquote means that I said you called me an idiot. There is a very serious difference there.

"Explaining anything to an inexperienced socialist like yourself is a waste of electrons. You are of an obvious welfare mindest and favore a redistribution of wealth from those who worked hard and were able to get ahead to those less fortunate, disadvantaged or just plain lazy."
"you continue to mistate the "fair tax". But dealing with facts appears to be part of what you found difficult in your logic coursework."

These statements imply that I am a liar, stupid, or both. Yamaka and Richard have both said that my statements on fair tax were in fact correct, it is a 30% exclusive rate. I also never said I had problems with my logic coursework, I actually said it was easy, I just didn't like the class. I did very well in my logic coursework thank you very much. You continually prove your inability to read. You can ask Dave to summarize what I said if you don't believe me. I was speaking to him after all. If you would ever like to bring up actual facts instead of throwing baseless slander, hit me back. I have no problem debating and learning with someone I disagree with. I have a problem when there is no chance they will actually listen. They have their preconceived notions, and anyone who does not agree with them is stupid or a liar.

Ask Yam, we have had some very respectful discussions, and we disagree on almost everything. Neither of us has convinced the other to change positions, and I honestly don't think either of us really expects to. The fact is some things he says are intelligent, and I can still learn from him. Some things I say are intelligent, and he can learn from me. At the very least we can gain perspective. Talking with you gains neither of us anything except mutual resentment. What is the point of that?; June 21, 2008 2:55 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Karen Anne said...
"Is anyone worried about the "only" $22 mil raised? I haven't been keeping track of when I donated, but I probably did more when you know who got me furious. I forked out some more when I read the $22 mil number."
_________________

I am not worried. Now that Obama has said he won't take public financing he will be able to use all that he has (primaary money and general election money) in the general election. He has around a total of 43 million right now.

It was good that he didn't have even more when he announced that he would not take public financing having a lower amount in May makes him look better in my opinion - since he is stating that he wants to run on the American people's donations.

Now he can get down to serious fundrasing. Also the Clinton backers are just now being sought out by Hillary to raise money for Obama so money will be coming in from all over the place soon, including his supporters online. Also I think after the convention he will have another boost in donations.; June 21, 2008 2:57 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: apissedant said...
Leah,
Why is Mr. Propaganda banking on a loss?
_____________

aspissedant - it is because Mr. Propaganda = stopO and we all know that he doesn't like Senator Obama (our next President of the Untited States of America!).; June 21, 2008 2:59 PM
apissedant said...: richard,
I try not to respond to Stop. He continues saying the same garbage over and over, and does not listen to reason. He insults Obama and other people with baseless and silly claims.
Yam on the other hand actually does argue his points. Look at his latest fair tax argument. That is a reasonable and respectable argument, why wouldn't I respond to it? He did not insult anyone or anything, and he used facts to support his case.
Most of us obviously disagree with his estimations and projections, but why should that prevent us from talking?
I realize the common belief is that they are the same person, and this is entirely possible. I don't really care, I will talk to the personality that is reasonable.; June 21, 2008 3:03 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: stopO said: "First I thought leah inTx was very mean; I changed my mind now..."
____________

Hahaha! I am not a mean person.

Ya know many people (and many republicans) had thought Michelle Obama was a mean person they are starting to realize that she is a very wonderful warm intelligent person that will be a great First Lady of the United States.

An article regarding Michelle and the dress she wore on The View was on the front page of the 'Star section' of the Houston Chronicle this morning. She has a great taste in fashion and it is refreshing to see a woman that is not afraid to wear a dress!; June 21, 2008 3:04 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Karen Anne -

I posted yesterday an answer to your "Obama Index" question. I hope you seen it.; June 21, 2008 3:06 PM
apissedant said...: jp,
I responded to half your post. I will now respond to the rest. Europe is a capitalist economy. The Netherlands has private insurance companies that cover their medical expenses, and like under Hillary's plan, they are required to purchase this insurance my law.
I have no contempt for those who want to work hard, and give their children more than they had. That is exactly what I am trying to do. I want to make sure my child has no fears of not being able to afford college, and that he has a good public education. I believe part of that is my responsibility as a father, and the other part is my responsibility as a citizen of this nation. I work very hard, and I am doing without a lot of luxuries to ensure I make good money, and can properly provide for my child in the future. That is capitalism at its greatest, and I love that. I also want my child exposed to the real world, with all of the people that are in it. I don't want to send my child to a private school, and segregate him from anyone. I want to support the public education system and make it better. I want to make sure we have the best teachers and systems to give everyone a chance.
This follows into my other realization: not all parents will do this for their children. Some won't be able to, and yes, some will be too lazy or self-centered. I don't want the son to suffer for the sins of the father. I want to make sure those children still have the same opportunities provided to them as my child will have. It won't be exactly equal, and it shouldn't be, because I worked hard, but their child shouldn't get a substandard education, starve, or be denied necessary medical care. That goes against the basic principles of our nation (IMO).

I did not equivocate, I explained in detail, with IRS documents to prove how I chose my numbers. You called my numbers lies and misstatements because I did not deduct the interest earned by social security. Of course that interest will not only not be there in 10-30 years depending on whose calculation you use, and this money was supposed to be set aside and actually be given back to social security recipients, not diverted to the general fund. You chose to never respond to this. You simply ignored it, despite myself, and one other person calling you on this issue. How honest is that?

You may disagree with my numbers based on the items I qualify as a part of the war, or as a part of the interest costs, but that does not make me a liar or anything else. That is a simple difference of opinion. I obviously disagree with your calculations on those same areas. I honestly believe that the defense department is apart of the war machine. Heck, it IS the war machine. I count it as part of the costs of war. You may disagree, that is fine, but no reason to call me a liar.; June 21, 2008 3:18 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: JayW - betting is illegal and you probably should not use this forum to promote it. Also, it is not a good idea for people to exchange personal info (addresses, names, etc.) with people online.

No one has taken you up on your offer that you've posted several times - so that should be a clue that no one is interested ;)

Obama '08; June 21, 2008 3:19 PM
apissedant said...: leah,
Thanks for clarifying. I thought Stop's guess was, "less than 251" though.; June 21, 2008 3:20 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: From
www.electoral-vote.com

"Some of the committees have reported their May fundraising efforts. The RNC has $54 million cash on hand to the DNC's paltry $4 million. The DNC has actually raised quite a bit of money, but it is spending it on Howard Dean's 50-state strategy. The RNC is saving its pennies to help John McCain in the Fall.The DSCC has $39 million on hand to the NRSC's $22 million. The NRCC has $7 million in the bank. The DCCC hasn't reported yet."
------; June 21, 2008 3:32 PM
apissedant said...: leah,
Isn't the point of the 50 state strategy to help Obama in November? I mean, we're about to have an election that doesn't require Ohio or Florida for a victory. We could actually pay attention to the issues that the other 48 states are facing for the first time in 12 years.; June 21, 2008 3:37 PM
Richard said...: Jean, I don't think that new logo was ever meant to replace the horizon/"O" logo generally. I take the campaign at its word that it only represented an experiment with different logos, and I am sure that with the negative reaction it won't be one that's repeated.

Incidentally, for those who were wondering, vero possumus is the closest you could come in Latin to "Yes we can." It means, "truly we are able."; June 21, 2008 3:37 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Open Thread Electoral Vote Contest

The closer the election is the easier to guess the winning number will be.
So we will have a cut off date for number submissions of July 13th 11:59pm.
Duplicate number guesses will be allowed since there are only so many combinations available.
The list reflects the number of EVs for Obama (vs. McCain).

Submissions so far:
stop0 - (<)251
Dilbuck - 290
Emma - 300
Richard - 304
jean - 311
tmess2 - 315
RobH - 317 (1)
apissedant - 317 (2)
JayW - 269
softspoken22 - 298
Oregon Dem - 332
Leah - 345
Emit R Detsaw - 429
Independent voter - 538

Anyone that submits an early guess will be allowed to add (but not change) a second guess October 1st - 3rd. The early guess will be our main contest. The second guess will be considered a separate contest.; June 21, 2008 3:39 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: apissedant-

Yep, that is probably why the DNC is 'spending' money to get as many of the 50 states in their pocket as soon as they can. The more people then to get out and organize and get people registered and involved. Looks like it is better to spend the money now instead of waiting until later.

One thing also that is good is that Obama started running an ad yesterday in 18 states (swing states and republican states).

The more the merrier ;); June 21, 2008 3:45 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Regarding Obama's eagle graphic. There has been a version of the eagle with his logo on it for a long time on his website.

I just wish the new graphic had a bit more color to it. And the sign that they put on the podium could have been about a 1/3 smaller.; June 21, 2008 3:49 PM
JayW said...: Leah,

Thanks for your concern... but betting is about as illegal as going 5 miles over the speed limit. Everyone does it and no one cares... I'll take my chances. There are tons of laws broken everyday and no one cares. In fact, in many states, there are still laws on the books that make oral sex against the law as wll as any sexual position other than missionary. I bet there are a few people that break those laws on a regualr basis.

As far as not giving out personal information over the internet. I feel pretty safe. No one is going to be stealing my identiy with my name/address and I really am not worried about anyone stalking me.

So your concern is noted, but not needed.

So, I post again... anyone that would like to bet against Obama in the general election, let me know. I will cover any and all bets. I love easy money.

The fact that no one takes me up on this just proves that the ones on this site that bash Obama do so een though they KNOW that he will win.; June 21, 2008 4:17 PM
stopOBAMAnow said...: jp:

That was a "Good" misspelled horribly as "Gook". A real typo, believe me.

Please see the context, if you don't believe me!

That was written regarding Leah in TX. I apologize to her if she also took it as "greasy and slimy".

Again, where is the racism in there? I don't see it, jp.
____________________________________

On Michelle:

There is a full article on WSJ. It describes how her handlers want to "recreate" a new Michelle.

Most Americans have a very fuzzy nice feelings about Obama (as a person, not as a politician or policy wonk) but the opposite is true of Michelle: they believe when she opens her mouth, her real "color" shows up! She is considered "Anti-White and Anti-American".

Therefore, Obama campaign is working over time to recreate a "nice image" of her. Good try.

I heard her appearance on "The View" was artificial and well rehearsed!

____________________________

On Obama breaking the Public Financing of GE,

This is the Mother of ALL Flip-Flops, IMO. He was not advised well. It is a very serious mistake. Totally unnecessary - breaking the 30 year tradition!

McCain does NOT have virulent 527s like MoveOn.org. He discourages 527s to run Ads on his behalf. Then where is the need to raise 1/2 billion dollars?

Obama believes too much money can buy him the Presidency. He is terribly misguided.

McCain was broke in the Primary against Mitt and others. His Message brought him the Nomination.

Obama should move to the Center to get the nods of Americans. He does NOT need money, but needs good ideas!

But he can't. He is a strong believer in Big Govt and Big Spending. He is for Collectivism (listen to "Wellesylan" (Sp) Speech) the precursor of Communism or brutal Socialism!

Where will this take him? Back to Hyde Park, IMO.; June 21, 2008 4:29 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: stop0 said: "There is a full article on WSJ. It describes how her handlers want to "recreate" a new Michelle."
______

BUT the Obama campaign said that they are not going to 'recreate' her. They are going to REINTRODUCE Michelle to America. There is a big difference.

And as far as Michelle on THE VIEW - it was a great show. Michelle was not rehearsed. She was warm and natural and everyone on the panel loved her and also the audience. Joy Behar was on Larry King that evening or the next night and Joy said that Michelle is the kind of person that you'd want to hang out with - and Cindy is NOT.; June 21, 2008 4:41 PM
Karen Anne said...: Leah, yes, I did see your Obama Index explanation, thanks.

Stop, I feel for you with your typo. I have an hp pavilion notebook whose keyboard tends to drop letters. I am very very careful when I type public, but not always careful enough :-); June 21, 2008 4:46 PM
stopOBAMAnow said...: Folks:

You are ALL angry that I give only less than 251 EV to BHO this Fall.

The reason is although Kerry got lot more popular votes than Clinton, he got only 251 EV with so much name recognition, money spent and in the middle of a very unpopular war.

He wasted nearly two weeks in Oct 2004 when he was "swift boated". He just could NOT narrate what he actually did in Vietnam during a narrow time frame. That cost him the Election.

Similar things can happen in this GE:

1. What will BHO do relieve the Energy Crisis in this country short term and long term?

2. How will he create at least 2.5 million jobs a year? Good jobs are the Mother's milk of any Economy.

3. He wants to raise tax on the "wealthy". A very bad idea.

This will hurt the economy in job creation AND will bring LESS revenue to the Coffer. What will he do, then?

Lowering the tax (by adopting the Fair Tax) will create plenty of jobs, AND will bring more revenue.

Which is a worthwhile philosophy to do, at this point in time?

Think hard and act fast.; June 21, 2008 5:08 PM
Mike in Maryland said...: Emma said...
I noticed that Maine and Nebraska assign their EV's ina way that is different from the rest of the country! How is that possible and why is it done that way?

Emma,

The Constitution (Article II, Section 1, Clause 2) states: " "Each state shall appoint, in such manner as the Legislature thereof may direct, a number of electors, equal to the whole number of Senators and Representatives to which the State may be entitled in the Congress . . . ."

Originally, each state's legislature, without the advise and consent of the electorate, chose the appropriate number of electors. Gradually, the states allowed the citizens of the state to vote for President - actually vote for a slate of electors pledged to a candidate, not the candidate him- or herself).

Originally, the voters voted a 'general ticket' - voting for each elector one by one. Gradually this changed to a 'short ballot', where the vote for a Presidential candidate was for a slate of electors.

The Maine-Nebraska Method is not a new system, as several states (early on) had some sort of electoral district and/or Congressional District system of selecting electors. Some of those states were: * Illinois, Kentucky, Maryland, Michigan, Missouri, North Carolina, Tennessee, and Virginia.

There is a lengthy article at Wikipedia on the Electoral College system, explaining how it has evolved from the 1788 election to today. The Wiki page is:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Electoral_College

Mike; June 21, 2008 5:17 PM
Meg said...: Thanks, Mike. I'll check out the WIki article.; June 21, 2008 5:56 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: stop0 said: "stopOBAMAnow said...
Folks: You are ALL angry that I give only less than 251 EV to BHO this Fall."
___________________

That is NOT true. Only one person commented on your number and I am sure the rest of the 'ALL' could care less.; June 21, 2008 6:06 PM
apissedant said...: leah,
I don't recall my comment on his number being mean either. Just a question of whose number it was.; June 21, 2008 6:56 PM
stopOBAMAnow said...: Hello:

There is a 269 EV in your list.

I thought I am the ONLY one going against the Tide!

271 is needed to win.

Is 269 not a mistake?; June 21, 2008 7:06 PM
Mike in Maryland said...: OK, I'm going to predict:

312 Electoral College Votes for Senator Obama.

I think I'm being a bit conservative with that estimate, though. I'm assigning Indiana, West Virginia, North Carolina and Florida to McSame, with Senator Obama picking off New Hampshire, Colorado, New Mexico, Nevada and Virginia, along with Ohio, Pennsylvania and Michigan. I'm going with the usual conventional wisdom on the other states.

I see that Jean has 311, and I think where we differ will be Nebraska, where I suspect she gives all five to McSame. I think Nebraska will go 4 EC votes for McSame, and 1 for Senator Obama.

Since the Electoral College has 538 members, 1/2 of 538 = 269 (please brush up on your math skills, Mr. Propaganda). If the EC vote goes 269/269, and thus the election goes to the House, I'm quite certain that the Democrats will retain the majority of votes in each of the state delegations, thus the election will go for Senator Obama.

Mike; June 21, 2008 7:29 PM
apissedant said...: stop,
No, it is not a mistake. 269 is all a Democrat needs to win. We control Congress and Senate, and who decides the President in case of a tie? I refer you to the election of 1800.; June 21, 2008 7:32 PM
tmess2 said...: Time for a brief defense of the corporate income tax and some questions about the misnamed "fair tax."

Income is not the equivalent of revenue which is not the equivalent of cash on hand. Revenue has a specific accounting meaning. You can have revenue while still selling a product at a loss. A sale may create cash on hand or it may create another assets such as accounts receivable, which may or may not ever be converted into cash.

More importantly what qualifies as revenue and expenses for tax purposes is entirely different from what qualifies as revenue and expenses for normal accounting. In other words, a corporation can have a profit and still show negative income.

One of the big benefits of the corporate income tax is that benefits paid to employees counts as an expense only if those benefits are available to most employees. In other words, if you want to deduct the expense of health insurance and pensions to your top executives, that same pension plan and health insurance plan must be available to the folks driving your trucks. You eliminate the corporate income tax, you might find a lot more corporations eliminating health benefits and pension plans for your average worker.

The other key fact is that a company does not have to have taxable income to pay a dividend, it just needs cash on hand. Thus, that dividend was not necessarily taxed in full or in part. Due to certain tax credits and other things, many corporations have 0 taxable income on substantial profits.

Replacing an income tax with a sales tax (which is what the fair tax is) raises a lot of questions as to what types of sales will be covered by this tax. To get the 30% to meet current tax revenue (personal income + FICA + medicare + corporate) you are going to have to cover a lot of things that aren't covered by state sales taxes. To use the best example, what about homes and rent, will those be covered by a sales tax. Living space is one of the biggest chuncks of most families budgets. Yet if you imposed a 30% sales tax on homes, you would find a lot of people still in the red when the time came to sell their home.

Likewise, they talk about an annual rebate to assure that poor folks don't pay an unfair portion of the sales tax (instinctively recognizing that sales taxes are one of the most regressive forms of taxes). The problem is who determines how much the rebate is and who gets it. If you eliminate the income tax and FICA, there goes any national record of who worked and how much they earned. If you want to talk about the dole, giving everyone $10,000.00 cash back from the government regardless of whether or not they earned a penny, that's the dole. All of the claims of the fair tax being a simpler system will very quickly go out the window trying to verify the data needed for the rebate.

What makes the fair tax popular among certain folks is the lack of understanding of how complex any tax code is. At the state level, where sales taxes are currently imposed, each state typically has several major cases each year about what counts as a taxable purchase and what doesn't. When a national sales tax is merely a theoretical discussion, it's easy to brush off the hard questions about what is investment, what is consumption, what are business supplies, etc. Those questions need to be answered by hard number crunching prior to saying that we should completely trash the current tax code and start from scratch.; June 21, 2008 7:44 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Open Thread Electoral Vote Contest

The closer the election is the easier to guess the winning number will be.
So we will have a cut off date for number submissions of July 13th 11:59pm.
Duplicate number guesses will be allowed since there are only so many combinations available.
The list reflects the number of EVs for Obama (vs. McCain).
A total of 270 EVs are needed for a clear cut win - 269 would go to the House for a vote.

Submissions so far:
stop0 (<=) 251
JayW - 269
Dilbuck - 290
softspoken22 - 298
Emma - 300
Richard - 304
jean - 311
Mike in Maryland - 312
tmess2 - 315
RobH - 317 (1)
apissedant - 317 (2)
Oregon Dem - 332
Leah - 345
Emit R Detsaw - 429
Independent voter - 538

Anyone that submits an early guess will be allowed to add (but not change) a second guess October 1st - 3rd. The early guess will be our main contest. The second guess will be considered a separate contest.; June 21, 2008 7:54 PM
Emit R Detsaw said...: Hi apissedant,

Got some more on the GI Bill eligibility. Looks like I don't qualify because I didn't pay into the VEAP system.

http://education.military.com/money-for-school/gi-bill/; June 21, 2008 8:14 PM
Beryl said...: My prediction: 280 for Obama; June 21, 2008 8:26 PM
Mike in Maryland said...: From CNN:

"No more 'thought showers,' local officials told"

A couple od excerpts:

British bureaucrats have been warned: no more synergies, stakeholders or sustainable communities.

and

The association's chairman, Simon Milton, said officials should not "hide behind impenetrable jargon and phrases."

"Why do we have to have 'coterminous, stakeholder engagement' when we could just 'talk to people' instead?" he said.

Can/will American politicians/office holders learn something from across the pond?

http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/europe/06/21/britain.jargonbusters.ap/index.html

Mike; June 21, 2008 8:35 PM
Hippolytus said...: Leah,
I'd like to lock in at 289.
Thanks!
~ Hippolytus; June 21, 2008 9:53 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Added today:

Mike in Maryland - 312
Beryl - 280
Hippolytus - 289

OBAMA '08; June 21, 2008 9:57 PM
stopOBAMAnow said...: Folks:

I stand corrected.

I say we need 270 to win as the site "270towin.com" says.

269 is very risky - what if the Congress goes to the other Party in 2008! Theoretically it could happen!

I bet <251 is the right number!; June 21, 2008 10:31 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Karen Anne-

Below is a bit more on the 'Obama Index' taken from a discussion I had with Matt at DCW on another thread:

Leah said:
Regarding the 'Obama Index' I see no logic behind it. What is the logic of giving Obama a percentage of the EVs in the toss up states (since we don't know which way they will go) and even a percentage of McCains states when in the General Election it is winner take all (except for NE and ME). I could see doing an Index for the Dem primary where the delegates are proportional but I really can't see why this is being done for the General Election - or am I missing something ??? So it seems to me the Index number is useless and the total number of EVs from the states that are 'solid' and 'leaning' is the only number that really matters.

Matt said:
Leah - The Obama Index gives an overall indication of where all the Electoral Vote Projections stand. With states moving from Tossup to Lean, and Lean to Strong, its difficult to get an overall handle on where the election stands. Thats what the number provides. When it gets real close to the election, then, yes the states are winner-take-all, and all that matters is which way the states fall. But until then, this gives a good overall view of the state of the race. Think of it another way. Look at all the obsession with national polls. They're actually worthless, aren't they, since this is 50 state elections, not 1 general elections. But people use them to get a overall view of the race. The Obama Index is the same thing.

Leah said:
Matt - thank you for the explanation. I guess that by watching that Index number it will show the overall state of the race as time goes on like you said. Maybe adding a graph here on DCW for the Obama Index number would be good so we can watch how it goes up and down over the next four months and then it would be more meaningful. Like the graph we used to have for the delegate count.
_____; June 21, 2008 10:58 PM
JayW said...: OK...

At this point I dont know who is more retarded... Stop O for posting his meaningless rants or the people that buy into it and respond.

Stop O is not serious... otherwise he would have taken me up on the bet that I proposed.

I now propose that we ignore all messages from him until he either goes away or accepts my bet regarding the general election... even if it only $5.

Obama 08; June 21, 2008 11:20 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Update...

Matt said they will be adding a graph for the 'Obama Index' number after they get some other stuff done first.; June 21, 2008 11:35 PM
suzihussein22 said...: It's a conspiracy. He must have been hired by an oil company to harrass energy conservers-

http://tinyurl.com/3qpcoz; June 21, 2008 11:37 PM
stopOBAMAnow said...: On the recent polls:

Newsweek has 36 to 51 for BHO, but has 13 undecided, which I believe belongs to McCain, because Rasmussen and Gallup give very close preference: 44/48 and 44/46. I don't believe any of these polls - all terribly cooked up to suit the Sponsors!(Many of these predicted that BHO will take CA during the Primary!!).

To repeat, the clean stuff is my own poll of all polls:

McCain 51% BHO 48% and Barr+Nader 1%.

This could change only when

1. BHO moves to the Center OR
2. HRC campaigns for him seriously OR
3. McCain makes a terrible mistake
or
4. BHO makes a serious error during interviews.
_________________________________

In support of Fair Tax:

1. Education cost, home purchase and rents are exempted from FT.

Fed can clearly enunciate what is and what is NOT taxed by FT.

The possibility of IRS is dead and gone will be a refreshing thing to most citizens.

Savings will swell and investments in new technologies will flourish.

2. When there is no Corporate Tax, corporations can give more generous pay raises and benefits.

3. No CT means thousands of offshore companies will relocate to US, and many new ones will be created here. This brings a boom in the job market. (Remember, the current top marginal CT is 39%!)

4. Consumption could go up and the treasury will be flush with additional revenues, which can be used to retire all the Debts outstanding.

In all it is a win-win situation for the Fed, State and Local Govts.

The economy now unshackled will roar at about 4-5% a year. This will be a paradigm shift to reach new level of prosperity in America.

Stay tuned.; June 21, 2008 11:46 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: stop0 said: "BHO moves to the Center OR"
_______

Senator Obama will not move to Oregon. He and his family will be moving into the White House in January 2009 ;)

No I am not an idiot - I am making a funny it might not be a good joke but it is still a joke ;); June 22, 2008 12:11 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: softspoken22-

That is so funny. I can just image those people on the bikes barking at the bird! LOL!

I'm still not used to people that use those ear pieces while on their cell phones and walk around looking like they are talking to themselves ;)

.; June 22, 2008 12:18 AM
suzihussein22 said...: leah-me neither...how's the ceiling?; June 22, 2008 12:24 AM
suzihussein22 said...: I just read some of McCain's website. It's good to be informed, even when you want to throw something. Most of his supporters aren't even willing to consider the posssibility that McCain's not perfect. Which reminds me, Markk hasn't posted anymore here. I thought we were being very civil. He never reacted to the link I posted about McCain's flip-flops.; June 22, 2008 12:29 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: softspoken22 -

The ceiling is still not fixed. A guy was supposed to call back Wednesday to set up a time to put up sheetrock, texture and paint - I haven't heard from him yet.

The GOOD news is that everything is dry, the a/c is fixed (no more water leaking), and the carpet has been restretched.

The BAD news 'was' last Monday two squirrels that got into the attic came down through the hole in the ceiling into the bedroom! Thank goodness the door was closed. It took about 3 hours to get them to go out the window! What a mess it has been. LOL!

Hopefully this coming up week the ceiling will be finished and everything will get back to normal (until something else goes wrong).; June 22, 2008 12:58 AM
suzihussein22 said...: leah-I bet they drove you nuts. :)One of my grandfathers raised 2 squirrels. They were happy in the garage for 4 yrs. I used to do that kind of stuff for my landlord back in my single days in exchange for some of my rent.; June 22, 2008 1:15 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: I'll tell you - we have some crazy squirrels here in Houston. They steal my tomatoes off of the plants. This year I had to put metal screen wire around the tomatoe plants and netting across the top. I have a brick house and they have eaten the wood at the eaves to get into the attic. They have eaten the wires for the TV cable twice and the cable guys have had to put in new lines. A few months ago they ate an electrical part off of the air conditioner. I have never seen anything like it. It is pretty bad because they can cause electrial fires. Last year the squirrels ate the phone lines down at the end of the street on the corner and the telephone man said they do that a lot. We were without phone service for the whole day! I've put rat poison in the attic and I know that some folks will say that it is cruel but to those folks I say 'you just don't understand how bad it can get'! These squirrels down here in Texas are nothing like the ones I grew up around in Illinois.; June 22, 2008 1:30 AM
Independent Voter said...: leah, do you have neighbors close by?; June 22, 2008 2:02 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Independent voter -

Yes. I am in a regular neighborhood (about 15 minutes from downtown Houston) and the people on both sides of me and across the street are not being attacked like I am! It's just crazy!; June 22, 2008 2:11 AM
Mike in Maryland said...: Leah,

I hate to suggest this, but your neighbors (at least some of them) are die-hard R's, they know you are a very ardent supporter of Senator Obama, so they've trained the squirrels to attack your house!

VBG

Mike; June 22, 2008 2:33 AM
Independent Voter said...: leah,

This is how I get rid of unwelcomed guests.

And yes, they do work.; June 22, 2008 2:36 AM
Independent Voter said...: LOL Mike; June 22, 2008 2:36 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Mike -

That is just too funny! LOL!

I guess I need to find out how to train them to go and attack all the republican neighbors ;)

---

Inde - thanks for the link but I shy away from things like that that we don't really know about the long term affects on humans are. Golly, we are just now hearing about how cellphones may cause brain cancer, etc. And I have even thought about getting rid of my microwave, but can't bring myself to do that just yet ;)

And what are ya'll’s thoughts about Alzheimers disease? I think that since they found high levels of aluminum in patients we should be cautious about tinfoil, aluminum cooking utensils, and even deodorant that contains aluminum. And what about aluminum cans that hold soda, etc., I betcha the aluminum leaks into the fluid just like the carcinogens from plastics leak into the bottle water. Okay, that’s enough I don’t want to get on my soapbox tonight ;)

Now I will go back to listening to IZ singing about Rainbows....

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Pe5p1BXNCQM

.; June 22, 2008 3:08 AM
Karen Anne said...: Leah,

I don't know if this would work on your cable and telephone wires, but it seems to work within the house on electrical cords re cats. Putting Tabasco sauce on the cords. It dries non-sticky and invisible. No, the cats do not go around pawing at their mouths, maybe one lick is a permanent reminder, or maybe they smell it (it is not detectable by smell to humans.)

The problem outside, you would have to reapply it after each rain.

I don't use poisons among other reasons because they work their way up the food chain. Today a squirrel or a rat, tomorrow a hawk who caught the squirrel or rat.

I had my house in California critter-proofed by a company that does that. They put heavy metal stuff over the tiniest openings imaginable. Whether that would work with your metal gnawing guys, I dunno.; June 22, 2008 6:47 AM
Karen Anne said...: p.s. If you block the openings, be sure the critters are outside first.; June 22, 2008 6:49 AM
ed iglehart said...: Ant,

"If we quit cold turkey, many of us would die, and we would probably drag quite a bit of the world down with us.
Steps need to be taken, but I believe in baby steps. Instantaneous revolutionary change rarely works out well."

I'm afraid "'I want' doesn't get", as my mother used to say.

Many of us WILL die, and we WILL drag quite a bit of "the world" (i.e. humanity) down with us.

A picture worth a thousand words

And a wee poem to lift our spirits:
A tribe said to the universe,
"Sir, We exist!"
"So I see," said the universe,
"But your multitude creates in me
No feeling of obligation.

"Need creates right, you say? Your need, your right?
Have you forgot we're married?
Humanity and universe -- Holy, indissoluble pair!
Nothing you can do escapes my vigilant response.

"Dam my rivers and I'll salt your crops;
Cut my trees and I'll flood your plains.
Kill 'pests' and, by God, you'll get a silent spring!
Go ahead -- save every last baby's life!
I'll starve the lot of them later.
When they can savor to the full
The exquisite justice of truth's retribution.
Wrench from my earth those exponential powers
No wobbling Willie should e'er be trusted with:
Do this, and a million masks of envy shall create
A hell of blackmail and tribal wars
From which civilization will never recover.

"Don't speak to me of shortage. My world is vast
And has more than enough -- for no more than enough.
There is a shortage of nothing, save will and wisdom;
But there is a longage of people.
.......

Follow the link for the whole thing, and follow this one for a discussion of the ethical implications of our situation.

Sobering stuff, I'm afraid. Then try this

and this

And then smile, and enjoy a Sunday picnic!

;-)
ed; June 22, 2008 7:02 AM
ed iglehart said...: Leah!!!!

Thanks for that wee fellow and his rainbow!
xxxxx
ed; June 22, 2008 7:08 AM
Karen Anne said...: Leah,

I also had those thoughts about the Obama Index after you explained it. My concern is it overestimates how well Obama is doing, and so leads to complacency.; June 22, 2008 8:26 AM
Karen Anne said...: Watch a female Navy Commander and Tim Russert rake potential VP (I hope not) Webb over the coals about sexism:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UebXkJhGpyA

I want to either spit or grind my teeth just watching this. I guess spitting is better :-), I don't want to damage my teeth.

Having gotten a full exposure to sexism in engineering and science starting out in the 1960s, I can't tell you how angry it makes me that a politician can still get away with this. It really brings back stuff I haven't experienced this blatantly in quite awhile.; June 22, 2008 10:02 AM
apissedant said...: emit,
You should be eligible from what I read. This one looks better, except it says it doesn't take effect until August 2009, which is when I run out of benefits. OUTSTANDING. Thanks for the link anyways though.

tmess2,
Love the explanation, I agree.

ed,
I disagree with the theorist for one major reason: It rewards based on whether you're born with wealth, not whether you're a good person, intelligent, useful, or anything else.
Also, remember all the rich nations are democratic. You're not going to get people to vote for their own death. Baby steps are workable, and proper distribution of prophylactics to prevent population growth.; June 22, 2008 10:47 AM
Karen Anne said...: DCW has the senate index as 55.5.

Where are we with getting to 2/3s Dems in each chamber in terms of veto overrides, if McBush wins?; June 22, 2008 10:57 AM
apissedant said...: karen anne,
Now you understand why so many of us are arguing AGAINST him being named.

He did a very poor job in that interview. Some things he expressed were common beliefs in the military, and some of them were just blatantly sexist. There is no need to explain the difference, because regardless, the style, and the forum which he used was inappropriate even on the rare occasion where his statements were not wholly inappropriate.; June 22, 2008 11:00 AM
Meg said...: Karen:

Wow!! I sort of liked Webb after what I've seen of him on TV, but this changes everything. Why can't politicians simply say, "Well that was my opinion 25 years ago, but the world has changed and I have changed some of my opinions."

I admire a person who learns. This guy is one more idiot who thinks that admitting his opinions were wrong makes him look stupid. On the contrary, he looks stupid now.; June 22, 2008 11:13 AM
apissedant said...: emma,
Agreed. He did better in several other public debates and speeches, but as many have said, George Allen lost the election, Jim Webb didn't win it.; June 22, 2008 11:42 AM
Woodland Sprite said...: Leah (texas4obama):

If I can still get in your EV contest I will take a nice round number:

360 for Obama; June 22, 2008 12:46 PM
stopOBAMAnow said...: On Recent Flip-Flops and Consequences:

Sunday Morning Talk Heads proclaimed, "Obama has seriously hurt his Brand Name by going back on his promise to take public financing for the GE"

Yes, whatever Brand Name he carefully cultivated is now gone with the wind! Nearly all major newspapers slammed him hard on this issue. This flip-flop is totally unnecessary and highly self-centered. He has tons of money to run Ads through the Convention. After that, he could have opted for the PF, as McCain. That's only fair.

After Jim Johnson debacle, this is another major set back on BHO's handling of major issues. It speaks to his INEXPERIENCE and SELFISHNESS. Voters understand and will remember this come Nov.

However, BHO's flip-flop on NAFTA is justified. Although he was a demagogue in OH and PA, he now says "NAFTA was after all not that bad", which is an accurate statement. Good for him to realize the fact even belatedly!

McCain's flip-flop on drilling the offshore for oil and gas is justified because citizens are now going to pay $5-6 dollars a gallon at the pump in Nov. Any responsible leader MUST be listening to the citizens and their worries and concerns. That's exactly what McCain is doing.

That's the reason Americans distinguish him apart from Dubya and the Republicans (He has approval ratings around 51%, Dubya's 28% and Pelosi/Reid's Congress 18%)

My expectation for the coming weeks is Obama will slip further in the polls, and McCain will inch up more, all because of bad flip-flop and good flip-flop!lol

Stay tuned.; June 22, 2008 1:50 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: ed -

I never tire of looking at Obama's big smile :)

I have a folder of about 200 photos of him that I've collected over the past couple of months. Everything from smiles, frowns, sadness, joy, hope, amusement, intense thought, etc.
It is amazing how expressive his face is.; June 22, 2008 2:46 PM
apissedant said...: leah,
Does your husband know about your obsession?; June 22, 2008 3:21 PM
Mike in Maryland said...: Interesting.

I've started to get SPAM messages, where the subject ends with "Stay Tuned".

I wonder if there is any connection between the SPAM messages and a couple of posters here at DemConWatch?

Mike; June 22, 2008 6:12 PM
Independent Voter said...: Mike, I'm not sure if it has anything to do with anyone here and is probably just coincidental. The reason I say this is because I keep getting the same ones on my yahoo account. I don't even use my gmail account unless I know I'm going to get spammed and I never game gmail my yahoo account.; June 22, 2008 6:47 PM
stopOBAMAnow said...: "Where are we with getting to 2/3s Dems in each chamber in terms of veto overrides, if McBush wins?"

Interesting!

As they did it in 2002 and 2006, the American voters are pretty smart: they WILL NOT allow one Party to take both end of the Penn Ave.

In 2008, they may give the WH to McCain and the Congress to the Democrats. Or they may give the WH to Obama and give the Congress to the Republicans. I prefer the former (McCain will be a true Custodian of our tax dollars, unlike the big spender BHO, as per his behavior during the Primary)

Gridlock is useful really to rein the growth of the monstrous Fed Govt, which is very bloated and terribly inefficient.

Stay tuned.; June 22, 2008 6:53 PM
stopOBAMAnow said...: "These squirrels down here in "Texas are nothing like the ones I grew up around in Illinois."

Correction!

Maybe, the squirrels in Houston are very unruly! Ask Yamaka, who also lives in Houston.

Not in Dallas, TX. Here, squirrels behave! lol

Stay tuned.; June 22, 2008 7:02 PM
stopOBAMAnow said...: Some random blather about "resource depletion" of the Earth:

1. Mr. Sun will always be there to provide the energy to ALL of us.

2. To cut down the CO2 increase, we can farm more, and grow more plants which effectively convert the inorganic CO2 to organic food by the process of photosynthesis. They also provide oxygen simultaneously by splitting water.

Human brain can devise newer ways to extract excess CO2 (left after very active photosynthesis,) into inorganic salts and stored in land and in the ocean.

3. Human brain can invent new very cheap ways of converting sea water into drinking water, and extract the salt to remove the sodium, calcium and potassium from it for our use in Industry.

4. We can mine the Earth more and more for essential minerals. The eternal power of human brain can cook up more new "man-made alloys" to serve our unique needs and purposes.

5. We can control the human population growth by adopting "2-kid policy" all over the world. It is politically feasible by effective education.

Humans can live happily in this Earth for another million years, at least.

Where is the problem?

Only our pessimism and politics!

Stay tuned.; June 22, 2008 7:34 PM
Mike in Maryland said...: Some idiot said...
. . . ways to extract excess CO2 . . . into inorganic salts and stored in land and in the ocean.

Go read the July issue of Discover magazine, the article titled "Ocean Reflux" and then rethink your storing of 'excess' carbon in the oceans.

The preface states "By soaking up carbon dioxide from industrial emissions, the oceans are becoming more acidic, threatening the foundation of life in the sea."

Mike; June 22, 2008 8:15 PM
Beryl said...: McCain didn't always love America:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jeffrey-klein/mccains-secret-questionab_b_107409.html

I guess it is OK for the man running for president to say this. However, it is not OK for a potential first lady to say she is really proud of America for the first time as an adult.; June 22, 2008 8:44 PM
apissedant said...: mike and stop,
Yes, CO2 does make water more acidic. CO2 is stored in water as carbonic acid. That is why tap water has a pH of about 6 instead of 7 like you would expect a neutral solution to be at. So basically... Mike, you're right, bad idea.; June 22, 2008 8:59 PM
JayW said...: Stop O,

You seem confident that Obama will not win the general election.

Would you care to place a wager on that? I will cover any bet amount you want.

Or... are you just meaningless talk?; June 22, 2008 9:01 PM
stopOBAMAnow said...: 'Human brain can devise newer ways to extract excess CO2 (left after very active photosynthesis,) into inorganic salts and stored in land and in the ocean."

apiss:

I stand by my statement.

I said as "inorganic salts" not just CO2 in water.

My Chemistry knowledge of 40 years ago tells me that salts like sodium carbonate, calcium carbonate etc are alkaline in nature of pH 8, definitely not acidic. I bet you.

I urge you to check your Chemistry since you are a CURRENT student.

Yes, CO2 in water is carbonic acid which means pH is acidic, no question.

I said make it as a 'salt'.

______________________________

RodentinMD:

You cannot understand chemistry, and what we are talking about.

You read some article and quickly become an expert in the subject.

Human brain is extremely capable of devising solutions to ALL our problems. I am NOT talking about your silly bony, dementing brain.

I am talking about the engineers and scientists who have a functional frontal cortex.

You choose to be a pessimistic environmentalist. But I don't. We belong to different sociological group! I am an engineer and am an eternal optimist, an accomplished one.

Get lost, Rodent.; June 22, 2008 10:06 PM
stopOBAMAnow said...: apiss:

Phytoplanktons, the primary producers (they photosynthesize) in the sea can grow very well at pH 7.5-8.0.

They ARE the primary source of food to the fish chain in the sea, FYI; June 22, 2008 10:10 PM
Mike in Maryland said...: Idiot SON/Yammerer:

Do you have any idea what the PH of the ocean is right now?

Do you know what will happen to life in the oceans if the PH is lowered by even .1?

Do you know how and why the PH of the ocean waters is almost universally equal throughout the world?

Respond if you do. The lack of a response will demonstrate YOUR lack of knowledge.

Mike (who is not a rodent); June 22, 2008 10:21 PM
apissedant said...: stop,
Research the Chesapeake Bay... we're killing all of those good plants and bacteria because of chemical pesticide runoff and too much CO2 content. Chemicals on top of chemicals on top of chemicals will not magically fix the problem. I believe the latest environmental report at hell over 90% of Virginia's water to polluted and outside of the allowed specs.; June 22, 2008 10:25 PM
stopOBAMAnow said...: "PH of the ocean"

Rodent/Roach:

"PH" is totally the wrong way of writing the negative log of hydrogen ion concentration, the pH.

pH is the right way, learn it from me. NOT PH. Moron.

Read my 10:10 pm answer, if you understand any, Roach, if not Rodent.; June 22, 2008 10:30 PM
stopOBAMAnow said...: apiss:

Now we are talking about different things, the "pollutants".

Calcium and sodium carbonate cakes stored and sequestered "properly" will NOT affect the flora and fauna of the Seas, period.

That's my solution to the problem of excess CO2 in the atmosphere, if any.

Environmentalists are talking about End of Our Civilization, which is alarmist in nature, and is totally unnecessary, IMO.

Human Brain can and will solve ALL our problems.

Our politics need to be good and balanced, that's all.; June 22, 2008 10:36 PM
Mike in Maryland said...: Idiot SON/Yammerer,

What is the current ph of the oceans?

Do you know what will happen to life in the oceans if the ph is lowered by even .1?

Do you know how and why the ph of the ocean waters are almost universally equal throughout the world?

Now that I have corrected the "PH" with "ph" in my questions, answer them.

Otherwise, as I stated above (rephrasing slightly), respond if you do know the answers to the questions, as asked. The lack of a DIRECT response to the questions, as asked, will demonstrate YOUR lack of knowledge.

Mike; June 22, 2008 10:47 PM
Keryl said...: Now you've gone and engaged Yam Stopper.

You've brought this on yourselves.; June 22, 2008 10:48 PM
apissedant said...: few typos in previous post... I assume everyone knows what I meant.

Mike,
Agreed again, very slight differences in pH and CO2 content have a very serious environmental impact.

From wikipedia
"Due to human activities such as the combustion of fossil fuels and deforestation, the concentration of atmospheric carbon dioxide has increased by about 35% since the beginning of the age of industrialization.[17] In 1999, 2,244,804,000 metric tons of CO2 were produced in the U.S. as a result of electric energy generation. This is an output rate of 0.6083 kg (1.341 pounds) per kWh.?; June 22, 2008 10:50 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Please try to adhere to DCW's rules.

Ya know they don't have to keep this Open Thread open for us so please try to be nice and not ruin it for the rest of us.

As it say at the top of the page:

"And please be excellent to one another. We do not accept name calling or any attacks on our commenters. Any objectionable comments will be deleted. Try to be civil."

.; June 22, 2008 10:56 PM
apissedant said...: stop,
The human brain has been fixing our problems. They discovered that the dig and burn methods of our civilization were bad. They found better ways like water power, solar power, and wind power. They found ways to make homes, businesses and cars more energy inefficient.

There are repercussions to our actions. We cannot assume that some future generation will be able to fix all the problems we create. We cannot continue passing the buck. We need to take responsibility, tighten our belts, roll up our sleeves, and start making the world better for our children.

http://www.springerlink.com/content/b4l1x30327j41708/
The same plants you're hoping will be able to get rid of one form of our pollution, are being killed by another form of our pollution. You cannot treat any one of these problems as an individual problem, they are all related. The farm land you want to convert would require destroying forest, so we would most likely lose more CO2 breathing items than we would gain. They would then be treated with terrible chemicals which would kill even more CO2 breathing items. The net effect is terrible. The chemical fix you propose would take resources, energy, and the ramifications of which are not fully known. How would we extract the CO2 from the air in the first place?

It is really just a series of pipe dreams to excuse poor decision making and continuing down a terrible path.

There is no H2O powered car, and just like you said, there is no free lunch. It is funny you can say that about social programs, but you won't believe it when it might actually apply to you.; June 22, 2008 11:02 PM
apissedant said...: Mike,
He is attempting to answer in chemical terms, and you're asking a biological question. I don't know the answer, and he probably doesn't either. So he will jut nitpick your incorrect use of pH, because he doesn't know biology.

Night!; June 22, 2008 11:05 PM
Mike in Maryland said...: AP,

Agreed. The fact that he/she/it isn't trying to address my questions shows the absolute lack of merit of his/her/its argument.

If you do not know where you are now, how can you ever get to the place you want to be? Accidentally blunder into it?

We have been accidentally blundering from problem to worse problem to even worse problem because we haven't been noticing where we are now, and what our actions have been doing to the Earth. Our quick-fix actions have done just as much damage, if not more, than if we had taken just a bit of time to figure out what was actually causing the problem in the first place, then tailoring our response to the problem.

Mike; June 22, 2008 11:34 PM
stopOBAMAnow said...: "The chemical fix you propose would take resources, energy, and the ramifications of which are not fully known. How would we extract the CO2 from the air in the first place?"

apiss:

Please go back to my original "blather".

1. I said that human brain can devise very cheap methods to desalinate the sea water to get drinking water. When you do that what is left behind in vast amount is sodium and calcium salts.

2. From this, say you chemically convert them into hydroxides, which will absorb CO2 very easily. By passing atmospheric CO2 under high pressure into calcium hydroxide you can remove substantial amount of CO2 from air. Then, dispose of calcium carbonate cakes "properly" in a safe form both in land and in sea.

In fact the calcium carbonate can be used to make cement for buildings and roads etc.

3. All would need energy. Yes, there is no free lunch! My proposal is to get it directly from Mr. Sun via solar panels and high capacity batteries!

Yes, Human Brain can and will solve ALL our problems.

Yes, Optimists live well.

Pessimists die everyday!

We need our politics right.

Extreme Environmentalism is bad for the planet.

________________________________

Coming to Presidential Politics -

As per AOL Hot Seat (aol.com)

56% of voters say BHO is less honest than McCain.

67% of voters say BHO is a hypocrite.

I have a feeling that his flip-flop on Public Financing has started biting him!

Stay tuned.; June 22, 2008 11:45 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: No one on this thread cares about AOL straw polls.

Please go and look at some real polls:

www.RealClearPolitics.com

www.Pollster.com

www.Rasmussen.com

www.gallup.com

or any of the real polling websites.

AOL straw polls don't mean squat!; June 23, 2008 12:10 AM
Mike in Maryland said...: Idiot SON/Yammerer,

What is the current pH of the oceans?

Do you know what will happen to life in the oceans if the pH is lowered by even .1?

Do you know how and why the pH of the ocean waters are almost universally equal throughout the world?

Mike; June 23, 2008 12:16 AM
stopOBAMAnow said...: "AOL straw polls don't mean squat!"

AOL Hot Seat is little different from the AOL Straw Poll, which gets nearly 500K votes every week!

What is the sample size of your other polls?

Hardly 1000-1500!

When n is large like about 500K, then it is more reliable, as per Stat 101.

Granted, I don't know the sample size of AOL Hot Seat, it could be a few thousand voters!

You may NOT like the messenger, that's fine.
But message is there for you to worry about!

____________________________

Roach:

I answered it already.

Phytoplanktons live very well under pH 7.5 to 8.0 in the seas. Marine lives are fine under the pH range.

What more of biology do you want to know?

Can you handle more than that?

Read all my posts to know all the answers.; June 23, 2008 12:48 AM
Mike in Maryland said...: Idiot SON/Yammerer,

What is the current pH of the oceans?

Do you know what will happen to life in the oceans if the pH is lowered by even .1?

Do you know how and why the pH of the ocean waters are almost universally equal throughout the world?

Mike; June 23, 2008 1:08 AM
stopOBAMAnow said...: Folks:

According to another poll,

Nader gets 8%
Barr gets 4% in a few Southern States.

Barr would hurt McCain in the South, while Nader would hurt Obama in Liberal N E States, FL and CA!

Interesting.

Stay tuned.; June 23, 2008 1:19 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Proof that AOL is NOT accurate:

http://news.aol.com/political-machine/straw-poll/

There are over 100,000 votes and there is not even ONE state that is blue for Obama. Since all 50 states are red for McCain this shows that AOL is not a real poll and should not be cited as a source for any factual data!; June 23, 2008 1:29 AM
stopOBAMAnow said...: Roach:

Go to your favorite Wikipedia, which says the Sea water pH ranges between 7.5 - 8.4 (this is the pH of dilute sodium and calcium carbonate solutions: Refer to my original post to get the relevance of what we are talking about)

I can teach you lots of chemistry and biology, as a favor!

But your senile brain cannot handle!!

At least, you can follow the Wikipedia, for now.

Go to sleep. Your brain is already lacking oxygen!; June 23, 2008 1:33 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: AOL is an ANTI-Obama site and pro-McCain.

Boycott AOL!

Obama '08; June 23, 2008 1:34 AM
stopOBAMAnow said...: "There are over 100,000 votes and there is not even ONE state that is blue for Obama."

Yes. Wait for the end of the week.

I have seen in previous weeks when about 410 K voted, the traditional liberal NE States, including IL and CA has gone to Obama.

In other weeks no Blue. That's what the voters say at that point in time. It could very well change.

Remember, AOL has a subscription base coast to coast of nearly 20 million. It is one of the popular Internet Providers.

Fine, if you don't want to believe, don't go there!

But million others go and vote, including me! From my computer, I could never vote twice in a week; some claim they can do. I don't know how! But, from different computers you can vote multiple times in a week! That is for mischievous souls, not for me!!

I agree there may be some mischief. But most of McCain supporters are not mischievous type, unlike Ron Paul's and others. They are not Net savvy to play tricks with the polls in the computer, believe me!!

Stay tuned.; June 23, 2008 1:45 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Boycott AOL and their propaganda!

Keep an eye on the real polls...

www.RealClearPolitics.com

Obama '08; June 23, 2008 1:53 AM
Mike in Maryland said...: Some idiot wrote...
According to another poll,
Nader gets 8%

I saw a poll that stated 95% of idiots will vote for McSame, or stay home since they can't vote directly for Shrub again.

Prove me wrong.

Idiot - you left out some VERY important information when you stated "According to another poll". Such information as what state, when the poll was taken, and who took the poll.

Want to name the poll, the state(s) showing an 8% backing for Nader, and the date that such a poll was taken?

I did a little research of polls taken in several states, those from NY/NJ and those states north and east (the traditional definition of NorthEast US), and looked at the polls taken in California and Florida (although it is debatable that Florida could be considered 'liberal', since they have a conservative Repig as governor, and the Repigs control both chambers of the Florida state legislature) - the states that you inferred or mentioned. Here's what I found (state, then polling organization, date of poll, and the % of respondents who gave a response of 'Other" for who they would support if they weren't planning to vote for either McSame or Senator Obama):

California:
Rasmussen 5/19-20/08 Other 7%

Connectucut:
Rasmussen 3/11/08 Other 7%
Rasmussen 5/29/08 Other 4%

Florida:
Rasmussen 3/12/08 Other 8%
Rasmussen 5/19/08 Other 7%

Maine:
Rasmussen 4/1/08 Other 9%
Rasmussen 6/16/08 Other 6%

Massachusetts:
Rasmussen 4/23/08 Other 6%
Rasmussen 5/29/08 Other 6%

New Hampshire:
Rasmussen 2/11/08 Other 10%
Rasmussen 6/18/08 Other 5%

Rhode Island:
No poll showing 'Other'

Vermont:
No poll showing 'Other'

New York:
Rasmussen 4/29/08 Other 10%
Rasmussen 5/28/08 Other 7%

New Jersey:
Rasmussen 6/4/08 Other 6%

In all cases where 'Other' got more than 7%, a subsequent poll has found that 'Other' polled at 7% or lower.

Note who that 'Other' is not defined. There could be people who will support the Libertarian candidate (Barr) in New York and New Hampshire. A lot of the people who stated 'Other' could have meant, AT THE TIME OF THE POLL, they would write-in vote for Senator Clinton faced with a ballot choice of McSame or Senator Obama.

Either put up or shut up. Name the polling organization, date of the poll, and state(s) where the poll was taken.

Mike; June 23, 2008 2:03 AM
stopOBAMAnow said...: Hi Yamaka, where are you?

Haven't heard from you all week!

Soo busy making more money, Man?lol

Listen, if you happen to visit this site, please talk about your view of the world on the SP500 Index Earnings Estimate for 2008 and 2009.

What is the nature of your portfolio, meaning % of S/B/MMF?

You know, the SP500 has breached the 65 day moving average downside.

Are you not worried?

Good Night, All.; June 23, 2008 2:03 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Sunday night UPDATE:

Open Thread Electoral Vote Contest

The closer the election is the easier to guess the winning number will be.
So we will have a cut off date for number submissions of July 13th 11:59pm Texas time.
Duplicate number guesses will be allowed since there are only so many combinations available.
A total of 270 EVs are needed for a clear cut win - 269 would go to the House for a vote.
The list reflects the number of EVs for Obama (vs. McCain).

Submissions so far:
stop0 - <251
JayW - 269
Beryl - 280
Hippolytus - 289
Dilbuck - 290
softspoken22 - 298
Emma - 300
Richard - 304
jean - 311
Mike in Maryland - 312
tmess2 - 315
RobH - 317 (1)
apissedant - 317 (2)
Oregon Dem - 332
Leah - 345
Woodland Sprite - 360
Emit R Detsaw - 429
Independent voter - 538

Anyone that submits an early guess will be allowed to add (but not change) a second guess October 1st - 3rd. The early guess will be our main contest. The second guess will be considered a separate contest.; June 23, 2008 2:11 AM
Mike in Maryland said...: Some Idiot said...
Wikipedia . . says the Sea water pH ranges between 7.5 - 8.4

Wrong, idiot.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ocean_acidification:
"Between 1751 and 1994 surface ocean pH is estimated to have decreased from approximately 8.179 to 8.104 (a change of -0.075)."

What is the current pH of the oceans?

Do you know what will happen to life in the oceans if the pH is lowered by even .1?

Do you know how and why the pH of the ocean waters are almost universally equal throughout the world?

Mike; June 23, 2008 2:33 AM
Vicki in Seattle said...: I was going to construct a logical argument, but I realized that the person I was going to argue with doesn't recognize the term "logic", let alone, "engineering". So I'm going to go about my day, instead.; June 23, 2008 10:29 AM
Yamaka said...: Hello Democrats:

Good morning. Another beautiful, but hot day in Houston.

My monthly electric bill is $400 at home!
Too much!!
_________________________

Hi Stop O:

Thanks for your comments and questions.

I must say you remember things very well, even after 40 years!

Your posts on phytoplanktons as the primary photosynthesizing producers in the Seas and your assertion that "Human Minds can solve all our problems" etc are very true - I admire you a lot.

You ARE an original thinker, unlike many of the people in this site, especially your Roach (I called him Rodent, because he is mike = micky mouse = Rodent, for fun, not in any malicious intent; now I see you call him Roach; he deserves the ridicule because he does NOT call you right! You pay him back the same coin!!) who just reads some weird articles and becomes an authority on it! Just ignore him - he is one old angry man!!

On the Capital Markets:

Yes, they have breached the 65 day MA on the downside. I am not really worried, because I am a long term investor. My portfolio has 60% stocks, 30% bonds and 10% in money funds. Stocks are split 60% in US companies and 40% among BRIC (Brazil Russia India and China). Bonds have varying maturities 2-10 years. MMF are safe and earning more than the discount rate.

On the SP500 Earnings Estimate for 2008, 2009:

As per WSJ 6-22-08:

The trailing 12 month eps is $60.17; but they estimate for the next 12 months eps of $ 90.88. This number seems to be high. I give about $85 reported earnings (this is Operating earnings - all expenses) for the next 12 months - this means $85 x 18 = $1530 for the SP500 Index. In my mind a multiple of 18 is reasonable because the 10 y T is around 4%.

We closed the year 2007 with 1468. In 2008 we will close above that and reach 1530 mid year next year, I hope. In 2009, we will end the year at about 1650. Am I too optimistic? Remember, when the Financials go down the Energy sector goes up. On balance the SP500 Index is well balanced to protect Industry Risk.

Yes, I am working hard and making tons of money. Praise the Lord.
But, I also pay a 35% marginal rate to Uncle Sam! I work more and Uncle Sam collects more tax!! Also, I provide useful employment to a dozen workers at the Clinic. That's called Social Justice!

Keep writing.

I may be very infrequent here.
____________________________________

Cheers. ;-); June 23, 2008 10:46 AM
ed iglehart said...: Ant,
"They discovered that the dig and burn methods of our civilization were bad."

Not always! Peruse this

"I feel Terra Preta soil technology is the greatest of Ironies. That is: an invention of pre-Columbian American culture, destroyed by western disease, may well be the savior of industrial society."

Check it out.
;-)
ed; June 23, 2008 1:02 PM
Beryl said...: Yam posted:

"Yes, I am working hard and making tons of money. Praise the Lord."

While you are praising HIM, stop and listen to HIM also.

"A fool's lips enter into contention, and his mouth calleth for strokes."
(Proverbs 18:6 - KJV)

You must be aware that the post from you and "Stop" are contentious by design. I wouldn't go to a pro-McCain site and stir up strife as you are doing here. It would be against my moral and religious beliefs. But that is me.

You can do whatever you want to do but you opened the door to this admonishment with your "Praise the Lord" comment.; June 23, 2008 1:06 PM

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