Democratic Convention Watch: Open Thread

Tuesday, April 01, 2008

Open Thread

WE'VE MOVED! Democratic Convention Watch is now at http://www.DemocraticConventionWatch.com

Who's going to win, who has a better chance against McCain, or whatever else is on your mind.

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Emit R Detsaw said...: Aunt Jean - All of those MORE items are FACTS. Most are on the upper left hand side of this site if you care to look. Nothing in that post of mine is made up.

Leah, I did have a goof. DPL is Destinguished not Democrat. Oops!

;o); May 29, 2008 12:12 AM
Hippolytus said...: stopOBAMAnow:
Stop pretending, Yam. I'm sorry that you are afflicted with multiple personality disorder, but it is obvious to everyone that you are the same person. Glad to see the absence of Nazi references, though. Please enjoy your vacation...This thing will be settled by the time you return from Stanford (I assume that you're going there for a graduation on JUne 15?); May 29, 2008 12:15 AM
Oregon Dem said...: Greywolf:

I saw that you spent a lot of time researching the latest polls for the states for Obama vs. McCain and Clinton vs. McCain.

I have not checked the "veracity" of their claim that they update polls daily, but insted of doing all that work yourself you could start by going to:

http://www.electoral-vote.com/; May 29, 2008 12:16 AM
Aunt Jean said...: well folks I'm off to bed early tonight aren't you lucky no I think I am. LOL LOL Jean; May 29, 2008 12:24 AM
Hippolytus said...: Oregon Dem:
Thanks for the link; very helpful map presentations. Do you happen to know whether the maps are based on the same polling data used by RealClearPolitics, and if not, what is the source of the polling data that this site is using?
Thanks again for suggesting this very helpful link. Also, good analysis of upcoming primaries in PR and Montana.; May 29, 2008 12:28 AM
suzihussein22 said...: Could we get just a little more politically correct please?

http://www.epicurious.com/articlesguides/blogs/editor/2008/05/the-perfect-hat.html

It's not like I don't have a black and white scarf that's not fringed to pull my hair back with.

Anyway I just got some good family news and am celebrating with some Riesling. Slainte to my sister-in-law(yes, we do get along) and everybody!; May 29, 2008 12:31 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Hippolytus

Under the map on the first page it says:

Obama vs. McCain Clinton vs. McCain

if you click on those two links it has a list of polls.

I believe that is what they are using.; May 29, 2008 12:34 AM
Hippolytus said...: Assuming that the remaining supers will need the morning of June 4 to make their exodus, we now have to wait only seven days (and counting) for victory!
Obama in '08!; May 29, 2008 12:34 AM
Oregon Dem said...: Hippo:

One can scroll over the map and see exactly which poll (and date) the data was based upon (when you go to the Obama vs. or Clinto vs. McCain page anyway).

As I indicated I have not checked how up-to-date their surveys are in comparison to other sources like real clear politics. The "latest poll" on one page says Montana - which was reported by real clear politics on Sunday and real clear politics has new Iowa, Michagan and Kentucky numbers so I am not sure they are: (1) quite as up to date as they claim or (2) have the access to all the same polling data that real clear politics does.; May 29, 2008 12:40 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: softspoken22-

Congrats on your good news.

Speaking of articles of clothing.

I have a yellow suit jacket with black trim almost identical to the one that Hillary wears. I have heard it referred to as her 'bumblebee jacket'.

I will NEVER wear it again.

I guess I need to find a Hillary supporter to 'give it to' but everyone that I know (my friends) are Obama supporters ;)

OBAMA '08; May 29, 2008 12:41 AM
suzihussein22 said...: OR Dem- Using my extensive(hah!) knowledge, my own research jives more with this match-up of Obama v. McCain than I thought it would. I can see LA swinging to the Dems this time though. Thanks.; May 29, 2008 12:47 AM
Oregon Dem said...: Leah:

Humm what size is that Hillary look alike suit?

Just thinking that maybe I should make a bet with Yam or Aunt Jean or stopobamanow that if Senator Clinton wins I will dress up like Senator Clinton and go out in public (my wife and I went to a Halloween party with me as Bill and her as Hillary back in the 90's and we still have the masks...

LOL; May 29, 2008 12:50 AM
suzihussein22 said...: leah-Thank you. Bumblebee, huh? My son loves him in Transformers! ha ha

Aunt Jean-Sweet dreams of a united Dem. Party.; May 29, 2008 12:50 AM
Oregon Dem said...: Soft:

I noticed that a lot of the states that had early primaries have not been updated on that site recently because no one is polling there at this time. If one just look at the straight numbers Senator Clinton does seem to have the "electability" advanatge, however the number of states that are less than 5% McCain advantage when Obama is the opponent makes it really dynamic (and the old polls back in February meaningless).; May 29, 2008 12:55 AM
suzihussein22 said...: OR Dem-LOL-Just make sure Obama doesn't put out a hit job on you. :) I don't know why this didn't connect before, but yams-I like sweet potatoes better.; May 29, 2008 12:56 AM
Oregon Dem said...: Oh Soft....

Too bad you are married with kids (not to mention me being married with kids as well)....

I like sweet potatos so much more than Yams too.

Glad to see you found Richard's site - we have to get Leah there along with Amot and a few others.; May 29, 2008 12:59 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Bumblebee jacket video:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=a1ckrEeHDRY

It is just like mine except mine doesn't have the black on the sleeves/cuffs.

Oregon Dem-

It is way too little for you. Probably a size Junior 6-8. Besides I am only 5 foot tall so I know you must be taller than that ;)

.; May 29, 2008 1:01 AM
Oregon Dem said...: On the serious front:

In about 40 hours or less we will know the RBC's decision. My guess is seat all at 1/2 for both states, supers at full vote, let the uncommitteds fall as they will in MI.

What are your thoughts Soft and Leah?

ps: I think a juniors 13 would be "about" my size based on what each of my three daughters wear so I best not make that bet with Yam and Aunt Jean.; May 29, 2008 1:08 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Oregon Dem-

I believe FL and MI will be cut by 50%.

As far as the uncommitted in MI look on the first page of
http://demconwatch.blogspot.com/
in the third article it lists most of the uncommitted - 22 so far for Obama.

There is a page in the memo the DNC lawyers sent to the RBC page 29(?) I think and the lawyers discuss how the uncommitted should be allocated.

No matter what comes out of the RBC - it looks like Obama will still cinch the nomination and there will be no way that Clinton can surpass Obama in delegates.
.; May 29, 2008 1:16 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Regarding Florida....

There is one thing that no one has mentioned in a long time.

It was either Jesse Jackson or Al Sharpton several months ago went to Florida and started collecting signatures of Obama supporters that were told before the primary that the votes would not count (and therefore they did not vote). ----- So somewhere there is a BIG list of people that were disenfranchised and if push comes to shove I think that list is going to emerge. Obama wants the RBC do make a fair decision to get this over with - BUT I think that if the decision is not fair then I think Obama has already prepared for a fight.

.; May 29, 2008 1:22 AM
Oregon Dem said...: Leah:

Yes I was very pleased to see that 22 of the uncommitted were Obama supporters. Which is precisely why I said "let the uncommitted MI delegates fall where they may."

I just read a post in "Michigam and Florida by the numbers from Allyn and even looking at the math he proposed there (seat at 100% based on actual vote totals). Senator Obama would only lose 19 of his delegate lead.

MI and FL have become almost a non issue to Senator Obama clinching the nomination.

There are two ways to looks at it though:

(1) If the RBC takes the advice of the lawyers for the DNC and penalizes MI and FL by 50% than HRC can claim a "reason" to go to the convention seeking 100% for each delegate and take it to the credentials committee and the floor of the convention.

OR

(2) The RBC could "potentially" end it along the lines of the proposal made by Allyn in his post.

(I say potentially because HRC could change the metric once again to something else...; May 29, 2008 1:30 AM
Bob in Vancouver said...: With respect to the R&BC meeting this weekend, It's my guess that the process will be split into two parts; the first to determine what the penalty will be (i.e 100% or only 50% of the delegates) and the second part will be to deciede how the delegates will be split.

Everyone I know is assuming that the delegates will be split according to the popular vote. I don't think so. It may well be that the delegates will be aportioned to the two candidates according to the present delegate count. In that way it would preserve the delegate lead for the candidate that currently has the lead.; May 29, 2008 1:32 AM
Oregon Dem said...: Bob:

Which Vancouver? Washington or British Columbia?; May 29, 2008 1:44 AM
suzihussein22 said...: OR Dem-Leah-bob in van-I hope they can resolve this without setting a precedent and making the delgates feel like they won't count. I read leading up to MI's primary that if uncommitted went above 15%, it should send a strong signal about the support for Obama and Edwards. I would think the penalty would be at least 50% according to the rules that were already in place before the Dem. primary. We've had enough game changers. Maybe they should take an avg. of the results around those states to determine the split. Sometimes I do say though that FL isn't really Southern because when I was there for a convention in high school, I was asked if I was from the South. :) FL is such a strong Rep. state anyway that maybe it should be 50/50. I just groaned anyway when I first heard that FL was going to penalized in the primary. I know these aren't specific %, but I don't know too much about the nitty-gritty of district spreads. Sometimes I see both sides of an argument too good. From what I've read in FL papers, the outcome as is wasn't completely representative. Was that clear cut enough? :); May 29, 2008 1:49 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Obama Says General Election Starts After Tuesday's Results

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2008/05/obama-says-gene.html

Let the race begin!!!

.; May 29, 2008 1:51 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: I have never thought of Florida as being 'of the South' now Texas, Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama, and Georgia YES.

I have heard Arkansas referred to as the South also and I just don't see it that way. Being 'of the South' is a lifestyle and attitude.

I don't want to offend anyone but people in Oklahoma are 'Okies' and most people I know sorta refer to people in Arkansas as 'hillbillies' - Florida is in the southern part of the U.S.A. but those folks aren't 'southern'.

The 'south' something all to itself and I guess unless you've lived in the south it would be hard to explain.

Since I've been down here in Texas for over 30 years perhaps I have a different outlook than some others - but that's how I see it and I'm stickin' to it ;); May 29, 2008 2:03 AM
Bob in Vancouver said...: It's Bob in Vancouver, Canada. I had said in my original post some days ago that I was an interested alien, and that you could all say it's none of your business and that I should get lost. But up to now no one has made that comment, so I remain very interested, as are hundreds of thousands of people around the world.

The reason I made my last comment is because of what Donna Brazil said on CNN the other day. I have an inkling that because the results from MI are different than that of FL, the delegate split will have to be fabricated. And I can not see how Hillary Clinton will be allowed to claim any of the vote, and the resultant delegate count, that went uncommitted. That would in essence be giving her a double dip.

Now from what I understand, the RBC would be very hesitant to put out a ruling that would end up giving either candidate an advantage. That is one sure way to send this whole thing to a floor fight at the convention.; May 29, 2008 2:09 AM
suzihussein22 said...: leah-Yeah, we'll be stickin' alright. It won't be long before we'll be stickin' to our chairs. It's the humidity, silly. :) Being from Music City, I actually haven't had too many people notice an accent from me. Now I've worked with someone who lived in TX for several years whose accent w a s s l o w e r t h a n m o l a s s e s.:) LOL He's a great guy!; May 29, 2008 2:12 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Rupert Murdoch: Obama Is A "Rock Star," He'll Beat McCain

Carlsbad, CA -- Tonight at the "All Things Digital" conference sponsored by the Wall Street Journal. Rupert Murdoch -- Chairman of News Corp, new WSJ owner, and longtime torchbearer for conservative politics -- said this about Barack Obama: "He is a rock star. I love what he is saying about education. I think he will win and I am anxious to meet him."

About the presumptive Republican nominee, Murdoch said, "McCain is a friend of mine. But I think he's got a lot of problems. He has been in Congress a long time, and you have to make a lot of compromises. So what's he really stand for?... I think he has a lot of problems."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/hilary-rosen/rupert-murdoch-says-obama_b_104018.html

.; May 29, 2008 2:12 AM
suzihussein22 said...: I just don't see why people are going to be bussed in for the meeting. Just send in a spokesperson with petitions. What somebody posted that Jackson and Sharpton have done is really reasonable.; May 29, 2008 2:15 AM
suzihussein22 said...: Isn't it nice to have a Rep. call Obama a rock star? That's what I call a backhanded compliment.; May 29, 2008 2:17 AM
Kujo said...: Aunt Jean,

Yes I would expect you would think everyone who does not say Clinton should win is full of BS.

But the DNC is a legal organization with members and by-laws. If there are rules in the by-laws they legally must be followed. Dean can not do what he wants to do. If the rules committee decides on something that does not follow what the by-laws allows, any member of the DNC can sue the DNC and the courts will uphold the bylaws because they are contracts. I am an owner of a partnership with bylaws. Many people live in condo buildings with bylaws. This is the same thing. It is a contract and the rules of the contract must be followed.; May 29, 2008 2:18 AM
suzihussein22 said...: leah-back to that youtube clip-celestial choirs-That might get played some more and upset her Christian supporters. I'm a mezzo-soprano. I can sing Kumbaya with the best of them.:); May 29, 2008 2:20 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: softspoken-

30+ years ago when I moved to Texas from Illinois people down here made fun of my accent. Now when I go up home they always say I talk funny because of my Texas accent. When I have been in Italy people there say I sound funny and that I don't sound like an American! The last time I came back from a three month stay in Italy people in Houston made fun of me because of my Italian accent that I picked up after speaking Italian the whole time that I was there! LOL ;)

I give up ;)

.; May 29, 2008 2:21 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: I am ready for the Obama/McCain debates!

From Wikipedia.org:

Although the final schedule and formats must be agreed to by the eventual nominees of the Republican and Democratic parties and any participating third-party candidates, the following is the schedule announced by the Commission on November 19th.

Three presidential debates:

* Friday, September 26, 2008 at the University of Mississippi in Oxford, Mississippi

* Tuesday, October 7, 2008 at Belmont University in Nashville, Tennessee

* Wednesday, October 15, 2008 at Hofstra University in Hempstead, New York

One vice-presidential debate:

* Thursday, October 2, 2008 at Washington University in St. Louis, Missouri

.; May 29, 2008 2:23 AM
suzihussein22 said...: I had read about the debate at Belmont from one of my TN websites. They were still trying to decide how many tickets to make available. I think they can seat up to 8500. I can't wait. McCain will see how easy he's had it for the past couple of months.; May 29, 2008 2:28 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: softspoken22 said: "I just don't see why people are going to be bussed in for the meeting."
____________________

The way I understand it is that Hillary is going to bus in her supporters in over the RBC so that they will stand outside with signs and protest and get media coverage. Hollering that ALL votes must count and 100% of the delegates must be seated.

Some of Obama supporters decided (amongst themselves) to take buses in and protest against the Hillary supporters but Obama has come out and said that he would rather that his supporters NOT go and stay out of the mess.

That is all I know and how I understand the situation.

.; May 29, 2008 2:32 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: McCain has a 'short temper' I am hoping that he will get frustrated during one of the debates, lose his temper, and look foolish. Then it will be all over. Just like when John F. Kennedy was on stage with Nixon and Kennedy looked presidential and Nixon didn't.

Anyway that is my hope ;); May 29, 2008 2:36 AM
suzihussein22 said...: I must go for the night. Ciao y'all.; May 29, 2008 2:42 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Goodnight ss ... sweet dreams ;); May 29, 2008 2:44 AM
tmess2 said...: As to the process, they are technically hearing three appeals. As such, they could proceed with the appeals in sequential order.

The first appeal is Florida's appeal of the 100% penalty. Assuming that they decide to reduce the penalty, that would lead naturally into the issue of how to allocate the delegates.

[Not knowing how confidant the Obama campaign is in their 67 delegates makes it difficult to know if this is a real issue. If they are confident in the current delegation, there may be an agreement as to using the Florida primary and the current delegates with the only issue being half-votes versus full-votes.)

The second appeal from Florida deals with the voting status of the automatic unpledged delegates (DNC, House, Senate, DPL -- yes Florida has a DPL).

That would lead then to the third appeal. However, it is looking very much like the Obama campaign may be willing to back down and concede to the DNC memorandum with joint right of review over the last 19 uncommitted delegates.; May 29, 2008 3:11 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Since the DNC calls superdelegates 'superdelegates' I think that one of the silliest things that has come out of the election cycle is that some folks have picked up Hillary's slang of calling them 'automatic delegates'. There is no such thing as an 'automatic delegate'. I have noticed that she has used that term on her website on her endorsement page as of the beginning of May. Before that she used the term 'superdelegate' on her website just like the rest of us.

I believe that Hillary thinks that the more you say 'something' the more it will become truth. We need to stop her spin and continue to call superdelegates by their rightful name - 'superdelegates'.

.; May 29, 2008 4:03 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: God Bless America (and Italy - and the rest of the world).

God Bless Senator Obama and his family. OBAMA '08

God Bless all of the folks here on DCW.

Goodnight to all...

.; May 29, 2008 4:09 AM
Amot said...: I am little bit tired of the endless discussions who is winning the vote etc. Everyone here knows it's over so I will join more actively again when we move to seious topics.

OR Dem, you mentioned a site I should go... where is that :); May 29, 2008 6:21 AM
Peter said...: Does anyone here know where Obama is going this weekend? I know he doesn`t have any plans today and he is going to MI on monday as far as I know.

I think he should campaign friday to sunday in MT and SD. PR is not unimportant, but i don`t think losing with 5, 10 or 15% is all that important. The popular vote thing would not be an issue when Clinton exits, but winning SD and MT could.
I think driving up the margin in MT would be good and could give him a big enough boost to make MT competitive.
SD is more difficult, not much polling here and we don`t know how strong McCain is. But it could be close and I think putting SD, MT and ND in play (within single digits) could create a problem for McCain. These three states are small by them self, but they 9 EV combined which is significant.
McCain allready looks like he needs to defend OH, FL, IA, CO, NV, NM, NC, IN, and VA. It only looks like Obama needs to defend WI,NH and PA at the moment. I think NH and PA could soon be regarded as quite safe.
That means McCain is on the defensive in a huge amount of states. It isn`t all that unlikely that SC, AK, GA and KS could come into play.
This will cost Obama a lot of money, both I think we will have a huge financial edge in the GE. Remember that most Clinton money and Obama fundraisers will unite around Obama....

Winning MT and SD big, could cause further problems for McCain. If he needs to defend something like 15 states, he would likely give up a state like WI and could probably be forced to give up states he needs to defend where Obama has a huge edge at the moment (CO and IA). That means Obama could increase his "attacks" on quite red-states like NC or IN.

I think SD and MT could play an interesting role this fall.; May 29, 2008 6:55 AM
ed iglehart said...: Let me tell y'all, true Floridians think of themselves as Southerners. My people were Virginians and Marylanders, and those who moved to Florida (mostly before 1920) were Southerners in every sense, including racism.

Our racism expanded to include suspicion of Northerners, especially those who tried to educate us. Sadly, it seems a tendency in folks who move to often preach about how much better, more advanced, etc., certain aspects of their former abode were compared to their new home. It's ungracious, condescending, and downright rude, and if it was so much better, then why did they leave?

None of the above should be taken as in any way condoning segregation or racism of any kind. I did get 'educated' in the long run, but it wasn't at the hands of superior Northerners.

xxxx
ed; May 29, 2008 7:07 AM
suzihussein22 said...: ed iglehart-We just get along with everybody. This just reminded me, a friend who happened to be black for no particular reason couldn't pronounce my name, so I went by Vanilla for a couple of years. I am fair complected and slightly freckled so it fit. If that won't bother me what will?I'll have to say the racism is pretty embarrassing with some of my neighbors, to put it nicely, but with a few it is just the culture of being afraid of difference. There's not much I can do about it.; May 29, 2008 7:52 AM
ed iglehart said...: With no particular relevance, except that we all seem to be cheerleaders for our favourite candidate, a wee tale.

It's a well-worn joke that Scottish folk will always support Scotland in any sporting contest, and if Scotland isn't playing, they'll support "whoever's playing against England".

I have to admit that I conform exactly to the stereotype, if anything more closely than true native Scots, so it was a surprise to find myself unconsciously cheering England last night. Who were they playing? USA!

;-)
ed; May 29, 2008 8:10 AM
suzihussein22 said...: Shame on the conformists! lmao :D I'm the opposite, I usually don't root for UT. I'll root for Vandy and sometimes the Gators. Now I'm off to change the world for a few hours in retail. Yea rah. y'all; May 29, 2008 8:15 AM
Mike in Maryland said...: Peter,

I'd say that North Carolina will go for a Democratic nominee far sooner than South Carolina.

South Carolina has a much further road to travel to get away from it's segregationist past than North Carolina. As an example, South Carolina just recently took the Confederate flag off the main flagpole on the State House. That action is still causing a large number of the residents to tell 'outsiders' to stay out of South Carolina politics.

Mike; May 29, 2008 8:18 AM
Peter said...: I agree Mike

I don`t think we will or can win SC at this point. But it is not only about winning, we need to think long-term and the more states McCain needs to defend the easier it would be for us. I think we can win NC, but it would take a VP with some appeal among "white-southerns"
I also think a ticket like Obama-Edwards could put SC within a mid single digit margin which would mean McCain would need to spend more time here to defend it.

I don`t think we will win states SD or AK eiter, but the margin could be much closer then previous elections.; May 29, 2008 8:36 AM
greywolf said...: Obama is taking the day off today, and who knows from there. However he is messing up. He should be campaigning heavily in MT, SD and PR these next few days. No matter what he needs to make a one day strong showing in all three areas, even if such a schedule wears him out. He has lost ground in SD, to a nearly vitrual tie, and is loosing ground in MT. His new GE apprach is going to bite him in the ass.; May 29, 2008 9:47 AM
greywolf said...: I understand everyone is probably tired of talking about Hillary about now. However I have a question. How can someone state that every vote must be counted, then use fuzz math to declare themselfs ahead in Primary voted delegate count by ignoring all lost caucus states by stating they are not fair to the people that voted in the caucuses? I dont get it. She claims to be for all the people, yet when it is to her benefit, she dismisses those caucus states as unimportant? I just dont understand. As much as I do not care for her politics, I find I am begining to loath and actually dispise/hate this woman. And I truly do not like feeling that way about any one. Can someone please help me understand this so maybe I can get rid of those ugly feelings!; May 29, 2008 9:52 AM
Mug said...: Leah, I have an answer to one of your inquiries.

What will the Obama girls name their new puppy that they will receive when they move into the White House?

It really depends on the dog's actions.

If it licks their faces and then tries to piss on them, they should name it Hillary.

If it bark alot but does nothing useful, they should name it McCain.

If it chases it's tail with a puzzled look on it's face, they should name it Bush.

If it viscously attacks them without provocation, they should name it Fox.

And finally, if it tries to hump their legs, they should name it Bill.; May 29, 2008 10:03 AM
elwood1977 said...: Mug - that was funny! :p; May 29, 2008 10:13 AM
Anonymous said...: Greywolf, nothing personal but given the way the campaign has been run so far I trust they know what they are doing. Obama will be back in puerto rico before the primary. As for south dakota being closer, I keep hearing that but I've seen no polls on it.; May 29, 2008 10:15 AM
Vicki in Seattle said...: let it go, greywolf - I think it'll all be over in a few days.

we will probably like the way it turns out, but if it doesn't turn out that way, we will just have to hike and bike ourselves back to a peaceful frame of mind.

I personally want a Democrat in the WH this time next year. I want the one I want, but even one I loathe is preferred. Although if she prevaricates too much more, I will be sorely tempted.

hopefully, I won't have to cogitate on that possibility too much longer.; May 29, 2008 10:18 AM
Peter said...: Re Greywolf

I don`t think that is true. Last poll had him 17 points ahead of Clinton in MT, that was taken less than a week ago.
No new polls in SD in a while, so we don`t know how the race is going there, but most things indicate Obama winning, the demographics, geograhics and he has the major names behind him in SD. The AP-article I`m guessing you are basing your worries on, is probably not that accurate. That article fails to mention that Obama has won the "hard-working white" vote, in most states in the region, so I think he is performing well in SD, probably as good as in MT.

I can agree regarding PR, but PR don`t vote in the GE and I don`t know if any superdelegates believe Hillarys false "popular vote" claim.

I think it was a good move to start GE-campaign at this point, because McCain allready had an advantage here, making that advantage as small as possible is important. I think it is wise to take a day off, so he can work hard in MT and SD over the weekend.

He is going to MT tomorrow.; May 29, 2008 10:23 AM
greywolf said...: Vicki, sorry but I must say that IF she is the nominee, I will NOT vote for her. I dispise everything she stands for, if this is the way she conducts herself in the nomination process, I would hate to see how she conducts herself in the WH. In my mind I can not take that risk. I would rather go through another 4 years of Republicans, controlled by a democratic Senate and House then 8 years of the Clintons. At least you can predict what the republicans will do, but there is no predicting what the Clintons will do. So far they have been so unpredictable, deceitful, spiteful, hateful and unrealisticly selfcentered. Senator Clinton and Bill CLinton through their actions and conduct have proven themselves to by financially irresponsible as well as uncaring about the American people. All they care about is getting back into the WH, and they have proven they do not care how they get there. For me a McCain is the lesser of the two evils.; May 29, 2008 10:30 AM
greywolf said...: Peter, the AP has an article out this morning stating that Clinton has closed the lead in SD. Although, they do not give any poll numbers and state that Obama has some strong support there from the state heavy hitters, they predict that it will be a very close race.; May 29, 2008 10:33 AM
greywolf said...: Peter, I hear you about needing the time off. However, he needs to make sure he does not give her even the slightest advantage. Senator Clinton is by far the most manipulatin, disengenuious, spiteful, mean spirited, and decietful person I have ever had the displeasure of getting to know. Any opening given her by Obama, will be exploited in every unimaginable way.; May 29, 2008 10:37 AM
Anonymous said...: Greywolf, I saw the AP article which just basically describes how they are campaigning in SD. No polls, nothing. How they can have a headline that Clinton is closing is beyond me. Oh wait, its not. They've got to make a drama out of it.; May 29, 2008 10:41 AM
Peter said...: Re Greywolf

I have read that article and I don`t see how they can say that it is close based on what they write. They baiscally say that she has some support regarding demographics etc, while Obama enjoys party support.

Obama has won all states in the region and he won heavily in North dakota and the demographics there are quite similar (regarding education, origion and income). Not a single SD super supports Clinton. Obama has support from 6 out of 7 (the last is undecided) and McGovern (not a super) switched from Clinton to Obama.
I don`t think Obama would have that much support among superdelegates if this was a close race, remember that these superdelegates are careful so they don`t alienate their voters.; May 29, 2008 10:58 AM
greywolf said...: Well everyone... I am going to turn off the news, this computer and get away from this election stuff. I is actually making me sick to my stomach, reading all this crap about Hillary and her uncaring, disengenuious ways. What bothers me most is that level of dislike and hate I feel towards her, as such thoughts are not me. So I need a break from it all. Have a great day and maybe I will be around later this evening.; May 29, 2008 11:05 AM
Emit R Detsaw said...: Moot Points:

I think it will be over before Mont & SD, so won't really matter that she closes the gap. In fact, Obama might be allowing SD to slip so she can leave on a positive note. What a nice guy. ;o)

On this point you have to remember that I am not a Democrat. I am here to support Obama and to watch the Dem process. I have many reasons I would not vote for Clinton, but even more that would prevent me from voting for McCain. I would have to take a hard look at Barr or other minor candidates that might be better options.

Peace ;o)

Obama 08; May 29, 2008 11:06 AM
Mike in Maryland said...: This would probably be appropriate to post on the VP thread, but only 1/2 of the article is discussing the VEEP slot, and doesn't discuss specific candidates in depth at all:

http://www.tnr.com/story.html?id=e00f01cc-3e6a-47ce-8012-8f9e9538f723
http://tinyurl.com/5jqdy4

Mike; May 29, 2008 11:17 AM
Gator said...: Peter said...
"remember that these superdelegates are careful so they don`t alienate their voters."
If they were, things would look quite different in the SD count; May 29, 2008 11:19 AM
stopOBAMAnow said...: Hello There:

I am surprised that some of the Obamaniacs are in sad pensive mood!

Ya, ObaBush is taking it easy for the next couple of days! Many of his supporters feel that Sen Clinton is going to come from behind to take all the Primaries: PR, SD and MT!

Fellows, anything is possible at this point. She can take 2 out of the 3 primaries, and get at least 240 of the remaining undeclared TDs to clinch the Nomination.

Don't be very cocky and negligent! Your rears will be on fire!!

There is a silent Majority out there, who are NOT blogging or speaking out! They all hate the lazy guts of ObaBush, who preaches Communistic Collectivism and naked Hypocrisy and Demagogy to the graduating students, who would find it very difficult to find jobs in the real world in this deteriorating economy.

ObaBush is indolent and terribly lazy, like W Bush.

He is dangerously inexperienced, although has plenty of money, like W Bush.

Therefore, Stop Obabush Now.

p.s. Saturday will be a chaotic day in Washington, DC. The verdict will NOT be clear and decisive. Finally, one of the Candidates will take the issue to the Credentials Committee at the Convention.

It's NOT over yet, Obamaniacs! Keep wondering and worrying till the end of August!

Stop ObaBush Now.

Where is the June Surprise for 2008?; May 29, 2008 11:28 AM
Mike in Maryland said...: Regarding the AP story (and 'story' as in "a fictitious tale, shorter and less elaborate than a novel" is the appropriate word):

The writer is a blooming IDIOT! The section in bold should explain why:

[Superdelegates], whose convention votes are not bound by any primary, will provide the nominee's final margin of victory unless the final three primaries put Obama over the top.

Mike; May 29, 2008 11:35 AM
Mug said...: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/story/2008/05/29/ST2008052900235.html

This is an interestng article regarding Senator McCains previous stance on the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act and his current stance.

McCain seems to give whatever answer sounds the best at the time the question is asked. Its as if he's not even aware that he repeatedly gives opposite answers to the same questions when he's asked by differnt people at different times. Senile?; May 29, 2008 11:56 AM
Anonymous said...: I still love your enthusiasm Yam. Don't ever stop.; May 29, 2008 12:10 PM
Mug said...: Nancy Pelosi comments...

On President Bush: "This president has caused great harm to America, and I say this with great sadness, because coming in as speaker, I'd hoped we could work together. ... He has refused to listen to the American people, (has shown) a tin ear to the American people, a blind eye to what was happening in Iraq. ... This president will go down in history as the worst, whether you're talking about jeopardizing our national security... (or) the worst record of job creation."

On presumed GOP nominee Sen. John McCain: "He was in the right place on immigration, and he reneged; he was in the right place on the president's tax cuts, and now he's changed his mind. I'm hoping that he doesn't change his mind on the global warming issue ... but I can't even think of a Republican president. It's simply not going to happen."; May 29, 2008 12:26 PM
ed iglehart said...: Money Money Money! It just gets better and better!

"Years before Phil Gramm was a McCain campaign adviser and a lobbyist for a Swiss bank at the center of the housing credit crisis, he pulled a sly maneuver in the Senate that helped create today's subprime meltdown."

And he's still drawing big bucks from his banking connections, even though most of the sector has lost a huge portion of its former market value!

McDimbo seems to have absolutely inverse Midas touch when it comes to advisor choice.

If Obama can lose to these turds, I'm going to need some powerful drugs!

;-)
ed; May 29, 2008 12:35 PM
ed iglehart said...: The difference, according to Axelrod

"I never lobbied anybody," Axelrod said. "What I do is make ads and try to involve people in the process, people outside the halls of legislatures our city councils to get involved in public issues. What lobbyists do is go behind closed doors and try to influence lawmakers sometimes with implied promises of support for their campaign and so on, It is fundamentally different. I have never lobbied a politician on behalf of a client in my life.
.....
"I think that Senator McCain talks about reform and cleaning up Washington and cleaning up the budget and so on," he said. "I think there has to be a recognition that one of the reasons Washington is the way it is, and one of the reasons we have the problems we have, and one of the reasons there is a ten thousand page tax code and budget that is larded with pork and so on, is that you've got an army of corporate lobbyists patrolling Capitol Hill who are working relentlessly to put that stuff in. and if you don't recognize that you are missing a big part of the story."

Salaam, etc.
ed; May 29, 2008 12:59 PM
apissedant said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; May 29, 2008 1:14 PM
apissedant said...: Oh yeah, so a Republican, Richard Baehr is coming out saying that Clinton is the best candidate. He is doing this two days prior to the RBC meeting. If this were true, and Obama has no shot, why would Republicans let us know this, just barely in time to save ourselves from our mistake?
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/05/obamas_woes_a_tale_of_three_st.html; May 29, 2008 1:19 PM
apissedant said...: StopObama,
I almost became a high school teacher. Let me tell you why I changed my mind: The silly state school screwed up the scheduling of the classes, and I would have spent another year in college in order to become a teacher. The teacher certification would have cost me an extra 35 credit hours of classes, and about 500 dollars in extra tests to gain certification. Once finished, I would have had to look for a job, where I'd be lucky to earn maybe 30k a year to start.
Instead, I will be graduating a year earlier, and have a starting salary of about 50k if I start working, or around 30k, just for going to graduate school and earning my doctorate.
To become a teacher requires jumping through a bunch of silly, stupid hoops, and then earning low wages. Many of those that are smart enough to compete in the normal job market decide against going into it, or quickly quit so we can actually provide for our families.
If we want good teachers, we have to be willing to pay them competitive wages for their respective fields. We also need to somehow base wages on their work, and not simply the amount of years they have taught.
Oh, and also, I would remind you that the teacher's union backed Hillary Clinton, and sued on her behalf in the state of Nevada. Get your facts straight and pull your head from between your cheeks.; May 29, 2008 1:24 PM
JayW said...: Hey Yam / StopOBAMAnow...

How are your daughters doing? I guess they told you not to bother visiting since you are an embarrassment to them. Being young, educated, and attending good schools they are obviously Obama supporters... just like all their friends.

Did they disown you because of all your delusional tirades?

So sad.

At least you have this site to fall back on since your own family won’t even listen to you.; May 29, 2008 1:47 PM
jpsedona said...: In a letter to the DNC Rules & Bylaws Committee, MI Dems layout their rationale for 69-59 and no penalty. The letter is pretty bipartisan (even though I think MI will be penalized).

Michigan Democrats Release Letter to DNC Rules and Bylaws Committee; May 29, 2008 2:14 PM
JayW said...: New article on CNN....

"Pelosi prepared to 'step in' to end race"

ITS ALMOST OVER!!!!!

HRC go home!!!!!; May 29, 2008 2:16 PM
Gator said...: Obama is not looking too electable according to Gallop.
Hillary Clinton’s Swing-State Advantage
http://www.gallup.com/poll/107539/Hillary-Clintons-SwingState-Advantage.aspx

Bottom Line

According to Gallup's May 12-25 tracking polling, Clinton is running stronger against McCain than is Obama in the 20 states where Clinton can claim popular-vote victory in the Democratic primaries and caucuses. By contrast, Obama runs no better against McCain than does Clinton in the 28 states plus the District of Columbia where he has prevailed. On this basis, Clinton appears to have the stronger chance of capitalizing on her primary strengths in the general election.; May 29, 2008 2:40 PM
greywolf said...: I sent this email/letter to the DNC, Pelosi, Obama, Clinton, MR Dean, and all the Oregon Superdelegates of my state yesterday evening and posted it to day at newsday.com
http://weblogs.newsday.com/news/local/longisland/politics/blog/2008/05/democratic_party_where_half_do.html

Honestly, this was not an issue until Hillary fell behind. The more she fell behind the louder and more demanding her voice became. It is clearly obvious from her many statements that she does not give a hoot about the voters, her only concern is returning to the White House. Why do I say that. Back in January it was said by Clinton that FL and MI did not count they broke the rules. Also stated was that the only measurement required was the delegate vote and that the popular vote was a mute issue. That was when she had a good lead in Delegate count but was lagging in popular vote. Now she is trailing in popular vote with absolutely no chance of gaining the voted delegate lead. Hence, the only measuring tool is the popular vote and the voted delegate lead does not count. Additionally she now claims to be approaching the Primary voted delegat lead. This is accomplished using the "New Ever Changing Clinton Fuzzy Math Book", in which the caucus states no longer count (again) as in her words they are unfair and do not reflect the will of the all the people. Something is wrong with her stand, seriously wrong. Senator Clinton demands that all votes be counted but then again rejects the 14 caucus voted states. She also states the casucus votes are unfair because they do not reflect the will of all the people; that rule should also apply to those millions that did not vote in FL and MI for the presidential candidate as they were told their votes would not count. Something is seriously wrong with this picture don't you think? Caucus states reflect the will of the people that took the time to attend the caucuses, yet they dont count. This is strange, how can you count every one yet not count those caucus states that you lost? All votes must count in Florida and Michingan, however over a millon people were told their votes would not count and didnt vote, so how does this correctly reflect the will of the people? The whole thing would not matter one eyeotta to the Clinton family were she winning this nomination. So my question to the DNC is where do you draw the line in the sand. First you need to have Senator Clinton explain her position in clear and simple terms. If her position is that ALL votes must count, then COUNT ALL VOTES including Caucus State Votes THAT SHE LOST. Is it Popular vote or Delegate Vote? If it is popular vote than COUNT ALL POPULAR VOTES INCLUDING CAUCUS STATES, even is it is necessary to estimate those votes based upon past data released from caucus states. Lets get real about this. Senator Clinton no matter how desparate she is can not dictate rules, and procedures by changing, bending, twisting and manipulating the rules in the last inning to benefit herself. Fact be know she was completely out classed in the way she managed and set up her tactical plan for the nomination bid. Senator Obama ran, managed and put together a plan that included all states and all people and just plain and simple handed her butt to her on a plate.
School of hard knocks, they (the Clintons) underestimated the Obama camp, Obama's ability to appeal to the voting public, and the will of the grass roots organization built and established by Senator Obama. They all voted and made their voices heard loud and clear.; May 29, 2008 2:43 PM
greywolf said...: gator

according to other polls taken, Obama does just fine in beating McCain in those battle ground states. In fact he does better than Clinton.; May 29, 2008 2:45 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: National RCP Average
05/08 - 05/28

OBAMA 51.0
Clinton 40.5

Obama +10.5
______

National RCP Average
05/11 - 05/28 --

Clinton 45.7
McCain 45.0

Clinton +0.7
_______

National RCP Average 05/11 - 05/28

Obama 46.7
McCain 44.0

Obama +2.7

AMERICA WANTS OBAMA :)

.; May 29, 2008 2:50 PM
ed iglehart said...: Gator,

"On this basis, Clinton appears to have the stronger chance of capitalizing on her primary strengths in the general election."

But it's IRRELEVANT! She has lost!

We'll never know.

xx
ed; May 29, 2008 2:50 PM
RobH said...: So Hillary wants to President of the "20 States of America."

A genius strategy. Is that the position they're contesting for???; May 29, 2008 2:59 PM
greywolf said...: Has any one noticed that there are more and more Female superdelegates endorsing Hillary lately than not?; May 29, 2008 2:59 PM
Gator said...: greywolf said...
I sent this email/letter to
greywolf,
I doubt they will read it.
It looks like one long paragraph with 48 grammatical errors, incomplete sentences, extra long run on sentences and numerous misspelled words; May 29, 2008 3:01 PM
Gator said...: To All,
I just posted the facts. Either side can spin them any way they wish.; May 29, 2008 3:04 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Someone up-thread asked where is Obama going to be:

Friday, May 30, 2008
Program Begins: 5:45 p.m.

Rally with Barack Obama
in Great Falls, MT

.; May 29, 2008 3:05 PM
RobH said...: You know, the more I think of it, the angrier I get.

Who does she think she is?

She has the unmitigated gall to think she can cherry-pick, and say "I'm better in these twenty states, therefore I'm better."

How UNBELIEVABLY divisive that is.
No wonder she's the ultimate polarizer.; May 29, 2008 3:06 PM
Emit R Detsaw said...: actually Greywolf, I have noticed more male and female superdelegates backing Obama. ;o)

But yes, I have noticed that it is mostly females if any that are being loyal to their gender at this point.

Not that it will matter in the big picture.; May 29, 2008 3:07 PM
RobH said...: Gator,

Dude, you counted the grammatical errors?? Are you kidding me??; May 29, 2008 3:08 PM
Dr. in Ann Arbor said...: Gator said...
To All,
I just posted the facts. Either side can spin them any way they wish.

_________________________________

Which reminds me of an old adage: "If you torture the numbers enough, they'll tell you what you want to hear"

But my favorite:

"They say that 62% of all statistics are made up on the spot"; May 29, 2008 3:08 PM
greywolf said...: This is so funny, talking about party and husband loyalty. LMAO

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/O/OBAMA_HAGEL?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2008-05-29-12-24-35; May 29, 2008 3:09 PM
Dr. in Ann Arbor said...: That's HYSTERICAL, greywolf. So much for getting experience by sleeping with someone...; May 29, 2008 3:12 PM
Gator said...: RobH said...
Gator,

Dude, you counted the grammatical errors?? Are you kidding me??

RobH,
Yes, because it was a letter meant to influence. I have a program that does it for me.; May 29, 2008 3:13 PM
greywolf said...: Gator,

Ask me the question? You know that question. Do I really care about what you think about that email I sent?
I never professed to be perfect. Man it is the content, the thought and the logic behind it. If you can not recgonize that simple fact then you wasted your time reading it.; May 29, 2008 3:14 PM
Gator said...: greywolf said...
Gator,

" then you wasted your time reading it."
Sorry, if i hurt your feelings.
Just pointing out the fact that a better attention to grammar and spelling would insure more of the recipients would take it seriously.

I consider all points of view,
whether spin or not, worth reading.; May 29, 2008 3:27 PM
apissedant said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; May 29, 2008 3:30 PM
apissedant said...: Gator,
you did not present with the facts, you presented with A fact. The FACTS are that multiple polls have shown multiple results. The AVERAGE of those polls shows Obama fairing better than Clinton.; May 29, 2008 3:34 PM
elwood1977 said...: Check this out... Clinton issues post primary travel schedule to tavelling press corps. Yeah, I know... POST primary. Let's hope that this isn't going to a floor fight.

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2008/05/clinton-preps-p.html; May 29, 2008 3:52 PM
Anonymous said...: apissedant said...
Gator,
you did not present with the facts,
apissedant,
They were facts, you spin.
Now for a fact<
Obama has lost ground in popular vote andplegded delegates since Feburary.

He will be exposed on CNN tonight.
Anderson Cooper 360 will air his dirty dealings in his first state senate race, despite strong objections by the Obama Campaign.; May 29, 2008 4:20 PM
apissedant said...: Facts is plural, it requires more than one fact. It also implies a proper display of all the important facts. This, is most definitely not that. It is one fact, one poll, and completely disregards 5 or 6 other polls conducted around the same time. Your strategy says that there are WMDs in Iraq, my strategy, says you're a jackass.; May 29, 2008 4:27 PM
Keryl said...: No need to wait until CNN tonight, they've already posted the bulk of the story here: http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/05/29/obamas.first.campaign/index.html

By the way, it's not like he was doing push polling, or voter suppression like our current president did. He challenged the opposition on petitions. It's a molehill.; May 29, 2008 4:38 PM
Anonymous said...: MSNBC is reporting an idea this is gaining legs for the RBC. In the plan it would halve the delegates in both FL and MI and would seat the FL delegates as they voted in FL, obviously cut in half. For MI it would split the delegates right down the middle (50/50). They would also count the popular vote in FL to the popular vote count but would not count the popular vote in MI.; May 29, 2008 4:41 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Jim-

Obama did NOTHING illegal.

The 360 Story is already online:

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/05/29/obamas.first.campaign/index.html

.; May 29, 2008 4:42 PM
Anonymous said...: This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.; May 29, 2008 4:44 PM
Anonymous said...: The plan that I discussed above from MSNBC would net HRC 19 delegates. I would have to say the Obama campaign would definitely live with this.; May 29, 2008 4:47 PM
Keryl said...: Out of curiosity I checked the gender of the remaining SDs. If they stay true to their gender roughly 2/3 go to Obama, 1/3 to Hillary.; May 29, 2008 4:52 PM
Anonymous said...: ap?; May 29, 2008 4:52 PM
Anonymous said...: apissedant said...
my strategy, says you're a jackass.
aPISSedANT,
I am pleased. I got your Goat.
When one responds with name calling, it indicates a lack of grey matter required for rebuttal.; May 29, 2008 4:59 PM
Anonymous said...: Jim,
Actually gray matter does not determine a person's intelligence level. In fact, recent findings have found that no single structure in the brain determines intelligence. If it were just gray matter... all men would be smarter than women since men have more gray matter and women have more white matter. I mean... I'm sure you already knew this.

Dilbuck; May 29, 2008 5:14 PM
Mike in Maryland said...: I've always heard that statistics don't lie, but liars use statistics.

The saying is generally true. But when liars use statistics, you'll notice that they pick and choose WHICH statistics they want to use and want you to see.

Examples:

"I'm leading in the PRIMARY states (if you don't include the caucus states)."

"I've got the popular vote lead (if you include zero votes for Obama in Michigan, and don't include certain caucus states)."

I have a bigger margin in lead over McSame in 'swingstates' (but ignore that Obama also leads McSame in almost all those states, and he has leads in some states I'm not counting, because I can't win them)."

Etc., etc., etc., etc.

Mike; May 29, 2008 5:17 PM
greywolf said...: Mike in Maryland said...
I've always heard that statistics don't lie, but liars use statistics.

Mike wow do I ever agree. I found out today that the Clintons have a new book out:

"Creative and Fuzzy New Ever Changing, Unabridged Clinton Math"

Although sales have been slow, it was discovered that many of Senator Clinton's diehard supporters helped her develope and write this new book..

LMAO; May 29, 2008 5:30 PM
greywolf said...: News flash...

Nancy has come out and asked all remaining super delegates in the Senate and house to make there nominee choice known with in the week.; May 29, 2008 5:32 PM
Keryl said...: I understand it's national bestseller in some states, among readers who like Clinton and are named Clinton, if you don't count those not related to Clinton.; May 29, 2008 5:34 PM
greywolf said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; May 29, 2008 5:38 PM
greywolf said...: Word, the word is out.

One of McCains major supports and financiers of the RNC, stated to day that McCain will loose the GE. Pretty much said that Obama will place McCain's butt on a silver plate on a bed of crow and bush birds and serve it to McCain at his next meal. LOL

Obviously it was not said in those words, but in a more politically correct way, which pretty much said what I just did. hehehe; May 29, 2008 5:43 PM
greywolf said...: http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/05/29/murdoch-predicts-mccain-will-lose/; May 29, 2008 5:48 PM
stopOBAMAnow said...: "To become a teacher requires jumping through a bunch of silly, stupid hoops, and then earning low wages."

apis:

I stand by my earlier comment on dismal public education in US.

1. US spends nearly 5% of the GDP on Education.

2. Our per capita spending is less than only one country in the world, Norway.

Money is NOT the problem. It is the management and delivery of quality education to our kids that is lacking.

3. While there are many reasons for our dismal performance in most School Districts, especially the large ones of New York, Chicago, Houston, LA metropolitan areas, the activists of the Teachers Union should bear some responsibility.

There is also a bloated bureaucracy in School Districts. Many mangers are paid millions of dollars!

4. TU of large School Districts are voter banks for the Liberal Ideology. They don't want to work on meaningful reform. Why?

Please go figure.; May 29, 2008 5:54 PM
greywolf said...: Funny spin today. CNN is billing Hillary as having a huge lead over Obama in Puerto Rico. LOL, the lead is smaller than that which was published long ago. The lead is 13 points. (51 vs 38) What CNN fails to mention is that although this is the most current polls, it was taken befor Obama campaigned there last week. CNN also failed to mention that OBAMA holds a 42% popularity in the same poll. Amazing how you can take a report and make it sound so bad; May 29, 2008 5:57 PM
Emit R Detsaw said...: Obama picked up a SD from West Virginia today. That should spin a few folks into the ground. ;o); May 29, 2008 6:09 PM
Meg said...: Not that I'm a big fan of the media. Lord knows they are CREATING the news, but I don't see how someone could say they are biased toward Obama. Look what they did with the Rev. Wright thing.

It's just that Hillary says so much more outrageous stuff!!

It doesn't surprise me that they don't actually research or bother to include all the details in their statistics.; May 29, 2008 6:16 PM
Peter said...: Not even superdelegates from states like WV where Clinton won with over 40% buy her laughable arguments. Obama now has support from more supers in WV than Clinton has, 2 of Obamas superdelegates are senators. 2 of those endorsements came AFTER Clinton won in WV. Clinton only have one more superdelegate in KY compared to Obama.
Thise shows how little the superdelegates in general care about Clintons bogus arguments.

Clinton used Gallup-poll as an example of "how much better" she is doing against McCain, well she did a little bit better yesterday, but today they are polling more or less the same. Her arguments are just BS and she knows it.

The latest stunt from Joel Ferguson also shows how laughable the Clinton-campaign is. The 69-59 proposal is giving her more delegates than she probably should have, it is a fair solution.
Carolyn Cheeks Kilpatrick, Carl Levin and Debbie Dingell signed this last letter. Who did not? Off course the one who endorsed Clinton. The other three haven`t endorsed anyone....; May 29, 2008 6:32 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Yahoo!

Total number of delegates needed to secure the nomination:

Obama 43
Clinton 244

Even if no other super comes out before the last three primaries (PR, MT, SD) then Obama will have enough total delegates to be put over the top!; May 29, 2008 6:40 PM
Independent Voter said...: Leah I tried posting this this morning but for some reason it didn't take. So I'm reposting it now.

You said, "Hillary is going to bus in her supporters in over the RBC so that they will stand outside with signs and protest"

and in another post you said, "I believe that Hillary thinks that the more you say 'something' the more it will become truth."

-------

Your first statement it is beginning to sound kind of "Putin-esque" and in the second one it sounds "Bush/Rove-esque".

You make it sound like Hillary is morphing into Putin, Bush, and Rove all at the same time. Ok, well not directly, but........LOL; May 29, 2008 6:46 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: May 29, 2008

Pelosi, Reid working together to end uncertainty over nomination
Posted: 06:47 PM ET

From CNN Congressional Producer Deirdre Walsh

WASHINGTON (CNN) – The top two Democrats in Congress are coordinating an effort to get uncommitted superdelegates to publicly endorse a candidate and bring the Democratic presidential nomination fight to a conclusion.

A senior Democratic aide tells CNN that Speaker Nancy Pelosi is already calling uncommitted superdelegates and pressuring them to back either Barack Obama or Hillary Clinton between now and next week. Pelosi is working with Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid.

In an interview with a San Francisco radio station on Thursday, Reid said he spoke to Pelosi and Democratic National Committee Chairman Howard Dean. “We all are going to urge our folks next week to make a decision very quickly," Reid said.

A DNC aide confirmed that Reid and Dean spoke, but said it was the latest in a series of conversations the Democratic leaders have had on this topic.
____
____; May 29, 2008 6:53 PM
Yousri said...: FYI:
AP just linked to the DCW FL & MI by the numbers post; and DCW The Michigan 36 - Obama gets 18 22 post in this AP Barack Obama's camp willing to deal with Hillary - Article; May 29, 2008 6:54 PM
Oregon Dem said...: Leah:

Regarding Senator Obama only needing 43 delegates to clinch under the current rules and his ability to get those in the three remaining primaries - I am not so sure - 43 would be a 50-50 split of the remaining 86 pledged delegates (if I recall correctly there are no add-ons being selected between now and Tuesday). That number (43) seems a little optimistic to me as the most recent poll in PR has Clinton up by about the same numbers as Obama is up in Mont and SD but it has a lot more delegates. Three more SDs announce and I would agree with you that under the current (pre-Saturday outcome) Obama would have it clinched.; May 29, 2008 7:14 PM
Unknown said...: Oregon Dem:

Actually there is one add-on this weekend. It's from Maine, and it's already been announced by the state party chair that it will be an Obama delegate.; May 29, 2008 7:22 PM
Aunt Jean said...: to obama supporters I hope the rest of the sd's tell Pelosi, Reid where to go.They have NO RIGHT TO TELL THEM TO DO ANYTHING. They can wait until the convention if they want to. Jean; May 29, 2008 7:25 PM
Oregon Dem said...: Dr in Ann Arbor:

Hey my daughter is heading to Ann Arbor to go to graduate school. Any ideas on neighborhoods that are safe, afforable and close to the University?; May 29, 2008 7:26 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Emma you know darn well that the media has treated obama like their golden boy and treated Hillary like crap. Is a little bias coming out on your part [I think so]. Jean; May 29, 2008 7:28 PM
greywolf said...: Really, it doesnt make much difference what Hillary does this weekend. When asked where she was going Jun 4th her comment was there are plenty of places to be but would not specify where.

Those of us and those like leah that listen to and read the news know exactly what she will be doing we just dont know where she will be doing it.; May 29, 2008 7:28 PM
Oregon Dem said...: Amot:

yes you should join some of us at:

http://www.democraticelections.org/forum/

PS what is your prediction in PR?; May 29, 2008 7:28 PM
greywolf said...: This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.; May 29, 2008 7:32 PM
greywolf said...: Wow, I didnt think I said anything that was offensive. Sorry administrator if you did, it wasnt ment to be. I was just trying to be funny.; May 29, 2008 7:37 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Hey obama supporters when obama get an original thought he has always copied what Hillary has said she wants to do. All he would do is put a twist to it. He is a terrible debater he spits, stutters, and hem haws around. He will not answer a direct question. He looks totally nauseous but I think it's very funny and I get a good laugh. LOL LOL LOL Jean; May 29, 2008 7:48 PM
greywolf said...: PR predictions:

Sad to say but it looks like it will be something in the neighborhood of....

Hillary 53 Obama: 44; May 29, 2008 7:51 PM
greywolf said...: However he will take MT and SD by 10 to 15%.

of the total 86 available delegates. Obama will come out with 41 -42 delegates combined.; May 29, 2008 7:55 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Here's something new!
It's an unofficial Obama think tank.

Website Allows Obama Supporters To Set Agenda

http://www.ohboyobama.com/; May 29, 2008 7:57 PM
Oregon Dem said...: Aunt Jean:

I have an idea. You might want to try it because it might work. Instead of trying to convince Obama supporters to support Clinton by trashing Senator Obama - why don't you just extoll Senator Clinton's virtues?

There are many here who pick on you right back when you say nothing positive about your own candidate and just go on and on about how bad Senator Obama is.

Blow them out of the water by not doing that but by telling them what Hillary has done and why we should all be giving her a chance to be President.

Having raised thre daughters I have found that taking the high road and being positive works much better at getting someone to believe in you.

Just a thought.; May 29, 2008 8:01 PM
Hippolytus said...: greywolf said...
"PR predictions"
________
greywolf, is your prediction purely speculative, or based on recent polling? What's your source? I don't agree or disagree, just wondering what you're basing your prediction on. Thanks.; May 29, 2008 8:02 PM
Kujo said...: Aunt Jean:

"Hey obama supporters when obama get an original thought he has always copied what Hillary has said she wants to do. All he would do is put a twist to it. He is a terrible debater he spits, stutters, and hem haws around. He will not answer a direct question. He looks totally nauseous but I think it's very funny and I get a good laugh. LOL LOL LOL Jean"

I wished I knew this before I voted. Where were you Aunt Jeant to enlighten me with your truely magnificent thoughts!; May 29, 2008 8:08 PM
Mike in Maryland said...: On today's superdelegate endorsement page, there was a bit of discussion about the 'slowdown in SD endorsements' recently.

Here is what I wrote on that subject:

Regarding the appearance of a 'slowdown' in SDs endorsing Senator Obama, I think it is mostly a matter of perception and anticipation.

I just did a run of endorsements since the PA primary. Starting on April 23, there have been an average of 2.72 SD endorsements for Senator Obama per day, 1.6 endorsements for Senator Clinton.

In the past two weeks (May 15-29), there have been an average of 2.5 SD endorsements for Senator Obama per day, 1.4 endorsements for Senator Clinton. And remember, this two-week period included the Memorial Day weekend, but did include several add-ons selected that weekend.

In the 37 days since PA, five days have gone by without an endorsement for Senator Obama (April 24 & 27, May 2, 22 & 26), 17 days (too many to list - VBG) have come and gone without an endorsement for Senator Clinton.

I included the add-ons, which cannot be timed very well for an individual candidate. If the add-ons are not included, it probably would decrease Senator Obama's average per day by a couple of tenths, and decrease Senator Clinton's on the same order.

I did not include 3 Michigan SDs for Senator Obama, nor the switch from one candidate to the other (4 from Senator Clinton to Senator Obama, and did not include the double switch by the clown from the Virgin Islands).

On perception, it is easier for the mind to perceive a closing of the gap when you are behind, not as easy for the mind to perceive a widening of the gap, especially when it is your team or candidate.

I should have added that Senator Obama's number of SD endorsements overtook Senator Clinton's during that time period, around May 12, IIRC.

Mike; May 29, 2008 8:20 PM
Kujo said...: Numbers:

Assumptions:

Clinton wins rest of primaries by a 50 - 36 margin.

Unassigned delegates go with the way states voted (on average): Obama 19 - 11 margin.

Scenario 1. Things remain the same with FL and MI: Obama would already clinch by 12 votes.

Scenario 2. FL and MI would be reinstated as Clinton camp wants, but at 1/2 because (best scenario via rules). Obama would need 13 more SD.

Scnario 3. FL and MI would be reinstated as Clinton camp wants, 100%. Obama would need 37.5. Cinton would need 173.5. There would still be 211 SD's or Edwards supporters.

NOTE Clinton Proposal: Flordia as is, Michigan as is with Obama getting 55 of the uncommitted vote. This is in line with what the lawyers said on what to do with the uncommitted vote.

ALL likely hood it would be Scenario 2 or a modified version there of. The proposal being pushed by MI would be 69 - 59.

I think the DNC should stay away from the 69 - 59 suggestion of the Michigan reps. If they take it they could count this as 100% because this is not the result of the primary. DNC said they could come up with an alternative plan after Feb 5th if the choose. But if they do this they still legally have to take FL at 1/2. This would not be politically a good thing to do.

Also, it would be better from Obama point of view to take Scenario 2. This way you can say the vote counted in MI and FL as is, taking the 1/2 penalty that they legally have to do (nothing he could do about that, plus it is the same as the republicans). Also it would shut up ignorent people like Aunt Jean who will forever say Obama stole the election.

Truth is Obama will win Scenario 1, Scenario 2, and Scenario 3.; May 29, 2008 8:24 PM
Independent Voter said...: Aunt Jean, your comment about Obama "copying" Clinton is an absolute JOKE!

What policy has he "copied" from Clinton? They agree on MOST issues. They agree on the "end result". They have VERY different approaches on how to achieve those results. She was in TOTAL favor of this war until she began to run for president, he WASN'T. He never was!

She wants to mandate (even if by means of wage garnishment) ALL citizens to carry her health care plan, he doesn't, however they both agree that universal health care needs to be achieved.

She personally gains financially from her husband pushing for the Colombian trade deal, yet she is against it, but has no problem profiting from it.

She is against speaking to our adversaries (which is a totally FAILED policy), he is in favor of talking to our adversaries - which unless you know what the meaning of appeasement is, don't even try using that as an argument - because simply speaking to them, is NOT appeasement.

He is in favor of lifting not only DADT but ALL of DOMA. She is not in favor of lifting all of DOMA, only 1/2 of the measure.

She wants the "gas tax holiday" which will save the average person roughly $30 over a 3 month period, he doesn't.

Your logic is lacking in this area, meaning your argument is not sound (deductive reasoning) nor is it cogent (inductive reasoning). Please understand this is NOT an attack on you personally, it is however an attack on the logic you are using.; May 29, 2008 8:25 PM
Mike in Maryland said...: Independent voter said...
. . . Please understand this is NOT an attack on you personally, it is however an attack on the logic you are using.

It would be nice to hope that your comment would be received in the spirit it is given. However, with some people, anything not in praise of anything and everything they say is considered a personal attack. Some people cannot take constructive criticism, but consider it as a personal attack.

I'm afraid that there are several people in that category who post here at DemConWatch, including the person to whom you addressed that message. It's a pity, as most of us would acknowledge we formerly held Senator Clinton in much higher esteem than we do now. Part of the lowering of the esteem was caused by the inarticulate and obsessive trash-talk, with few to no facts (or twisted logic used), nor any persuasive arguments emanating from the candidate and/or her supporters as to why we should support that particular candidate. If that had happened, the opinion most hold here would be quite a bit different, IMO.

Mike; May 29, 2008 8:48 PM
Aunt Jean said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; May 29, 2008 8:49 PM
Aunt Jean said...: kudo If anyone's ignorent here it is you for voting for obama. Just goes to show how low class you are don't call me ignorent I don't know who you think you are but I guess I am better than you.Jean; May 29, 2008 8:51 PM
Kujo said...: Aunt Jean,

I refered to you as this not because of who you support, I too like Clinton and would have no problems supporting her if she was the nominee.

But time and time again you express and even attack anyone who does not agree with your opinion, you call them jackass (more then just me). You even attacked the lawyers who are only giving advise to Rules Committee on what the law would be and the problem they would have in the courts. You even attacked Matt and Oreo.

So if you have gave concrete justification to any of your thoughts, then maybe people could respect your ideas and opinions. But until then you can call me what you want.; May 29, 2008 8:56 PM
stopOBAMAnow said...: Hello There:

I heard that Dow Chemicals is hiking the price of their products by about 20% because of energy cost.

Most low income people will be affected the most. These very people are the voter banks of ObaBush!

I am very angry at Pelosi, Reed and W. Bush Trio, the embodiment of total failure at Washington, D.C.

Nearly the half of the gas price is because of speculators and the oil cartel. We need to break the backs on these people. Here is my suggestion.

US Congress must immediately act on a piece of legislation with bipartisanship, and the President should sign it into law by this Summer: In essence -

"Whereas the Energy Security of US is paramount for the quality of life of its citizens, the US Govt authorizes the shareholder owned, publicly traded US Companies to explore and develop new energy sources including off-shore fossil fuels, nuclear, solar, wind, bio-fuels and all others forms, safely and securely protecting the sanctity of our vital Environments."

This will open up a new vista and will bring the price of the gas over night.

Can Pelosi, Reed and Bush do what is needed to secure our energy needs?

Can ObaBush spearhead such a Legislation, if he can understand it?

I doubt it.

We need Experienced people at the Top, not some Novice, like another Bush.

Stop ObaBush Now.; May 29, 2008 9:22 PM
Dr. in Ann Arbor said...: Oregon Dem said...
Dr in Ann Arbor:

Hey my daughter is heading to Ann Arbor to go to graduate school. Any ideas on neighborhoods that are safe, afforable and close to the University?
__________________________________

Absolutely - what's the best way for you and I to talk outside this thing? I can give you information...; May 29, 2008 9:40 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Dave that is how little you know what Hillary thinks. When she found out that the report that was given was false she said that she would have never voted like did did. When Obama said that he was against the war from the get go that is a bald face lie. There was article on [I believe it was CNN] if he had the same report that the others had he couldn't say how he would have voted. H said that in 2002 that he was against the war but Hillary was saying the same thing so pleaseeeeeeeee. His ideas about what he wanted to do for america I'm sorry but he said that AFTER Hillary said what she wanted to do.I can understand why you wouldn't want to think that he copied her for.I also don't think that you really listen to obama he is mandating it for children. Is there so where that you can get insurance just for kids I don't know of a place so it's really the same thing [think about it]. Now exactly what do you think she should do with her husbands money pray tell? dAVE i HONESTLY don't think that you and everyone else really listen to what she says. I think you and others have a closed mind when she is speaking. Maybe you should listen to her sometimes. She never said that she wouldn't talk to our adversaries. She said she would but that it would have to be under strick rules [that was not exactly the word she used] but my point was that she is also willing to talk not just obama. No I don't think that he would give in to them to keep trouble at bay.[yes Iknow what appeasement means] I will admit that I don't know the meaning of every word that is used on this blog. [but see I don't have trouble admitting that]. About the gas tax do you know what 30 dollars mean's to some people.For my mother it would pay for her phone for 1 1'2 month it might not be a lot to most but to some every penny counts. To me it's not that much so I don't worry about it. Did you know thar Hillary helped defeat the Federal Marriage Amendment which if passed would have denied the right for gays and lesbians to marry. Also she wants repeal section 3.

Section 3 : defines marriage between a man and woman
also prevents same sex couples from accessing federal benefits of marriage.
Now what you said was that wrong.I'm not saying that you are just trying to bash Hillary but she is not as bad as everyone thinks. Jean; May 29, 2008 9:47 PM
Anonymous said...: Jim said:
When one responds with name calling, it indicates a lack of grey matter required for rebuttal.

Well, that explains why he is so proud of his use of the word "lemmings".; May 29, 2008 9:49 PM
suzihussein22 said...: Shh...I was just watching a Silent Movie.

issue-environment and economy-a 2fer-

http://tinyurl.com/6ccvlz

I would like to do this when my kids are older.

Emit R D-Oh yeah, I remember that now, the FL Riviera.:)

graywolf-Just remember we don't usually have personal relationships with any of the candidates, so it really shouldn't get to the point of hating...As my uncle says...dislike immensely...which as a life long Rep. is how he feels about Bush now...he even called him Shrub a couple of weeks ago...my eyes bugged out, I can tell ya! So don't lose hope, because the Rep. are in for an uphill battle.

OR Dem-about Aunt Jean-Yes, I asked her SINCERELY along that same question. Maybe the post wasn't noticed. I didn't assume I was being ignored.

Mike in MD-8:48 p.m.-yep...I USED to say HRC was the brains behind WC.

Kujo-8:56 p.m.-and Yoursi.; May 29, 2008 9:53 PM
Meg said...: Aunt Jean:
That was a great post at 9:47. I think you were speaking from the heart. I read the whole thing, and though I don't agree with you, I can see where you're coming from. That was just a very nice post.; May 29, 2008 9:56 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Softspoken22 if you asked me a question I guess I must of overlooked it but not to just ignore you. sorry Jean; May 29, 2008 9:59 PM
Kujo said...: Aunt Jean,

That just shows how little you know (about voting for war). The president has the right to attack any country to defend the US without congress's approval. However he/she needs to get approval after he does it (90 days I think but can be wrong).

So there was no reason for any congressperson or senator to vote "to give approval" for Bush to go to war. By voting yes, congress prevented themselves from having any "checks and balances" on Bush (part of the checks and balances provided in our constitution). This is what was wrong with her vote (and many others). I would expect someone with "Experience" to understand this, Clinton did not. At that time there was enough propagand out that anyone voting against it would be labeled week on security. She faired this label and voted for the war"; May 29, 2008 9:59 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Kugo so let me ask you a question. Why would Obama say what he did? I'm not saying that he likes what happened because I'm not. That's not the point not you, me, or no one else on this blog was there so we can't say exactly why they voted for it. I really can't believe that they would do something that drastic without a great reason or belief of real danger. It wouldn't be very logical now would it.Who is the guilty party Bush. You know it just as well as I know it. Jean; May 29, 2008 10:11 PM
jpsedona said...: Aunt Jean,

you said: "the media kept bashing Hillary and taking her words and making a mountain out of a molehill"

The key issue is HER WORDS. When it's Obama's words or mcCain's words they jump on those candidates as well.

Your idea about Hillary running as an Independent... maybe not a bad idea. AMybe she can start her own party! Exclude anyone who's educated, male or doesn't live in a state that holds primaries... yes, I think that's the ticket!

PS: It's spelled ignorant; perhaps someone who spells it ignorent qualifies?; May 29, 2008 10:15 PM
apissedant said...: anyone making predictions on Puerto Rico,

AGAIN! As far as I have seen, there has been one poll. It is now two months old, by a company with no history in polling. Please explain to me how you are all so knowledgeable on the Puerto Rican vote. This ONE poll, that is TWO MONTHS OLD, seems like a poor item to base predictions on.; May 29, 2008 10:21 PM
Kujo said...: Aunt Jean,

Why would Obama say what he said. I am asuming your refering to the quote that he is not sure how he would of voted if he had seen the CIA information.

I really did not see him make this quote, but assuming he did, I would assume that this was made while the war was going on and he was refering to the fact that he did not know for sure what information was in the documents.

As for my opinion of why everyone else did, this is what I felt then. I was upset about the vote for war. I remember what was going on at the time. When ever anyone would came out against the war, the Bush admin would hit them that they were soft on terrorism, soft on pertecting our country.; May 29, 2008 10:22 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Emma thank you and it was.I understand why obama supporters might not understand why I'm such a hardnose supporter of Hillary but I do have some valid reasons but none that I really could list here because they are very personal. Also I'm not saying that Obama wouldn't make a good President one day but there is so little that we know about him. Maybe he is everything that you believe he is and more but we just don't know that, which is most of the problem. Right now in this time the way the country is in the shape we are we don't need someone in there that we don't know that much about. We know all about Hillarys bad deeds. I believe with all my heart that she does really care about the people. I am a big fighter not with fists but with words when it's something I really believe in. Also I've always been a good judge of people. Is she perfect Hell no but I'm not either.Yes I do believe that in the Presidental office you have to be perfect in some things [when it comes to defending this country but I also know that there is a lot of help.I do know that she has always fought for women's rights.Over my life I've taken a lot of flack [spelled?] for standing up to what I believed and for not betraying someone but that's just who I am.Jean; May 29, 2008 10:26 PM
apissedant said...: Also, Obama is the only candidate that refused to join the fuel tax holiday crap. Several days AFTER he said it was stupid, pretty much every economist in the country said it was stupid. I'm sure pretty much everyone saw Jon Stewart's comparing Hillary Clinton to Bush after her stupid response about not listening to experts.; May 29, 2008 10:28 PM
jpsedona said...: apissedant,

El Vocero and Univision poll released a poll today that was conducted May 8-20. The poll shows Clinton 51, Obama 38, Neither 8, undecided 3.

The link to the TIME summary article: TIME Article

There's a link to the Vocero.com (which doesn't seem to be responding right this minute).; May 29, 2008 10:30 PM
Aunt Jean said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; May 29, 2008 10:30 PM
apissedant said...: I feel that's a great example of Obama NOT playing follow the leader, and actually.... the great Hillary playing follow the leader; May 29, 2008 10:32 PM
jpsedona said...: Aunt Jean,

We can all tell your typing errors from your spelling errors.

Just think, next week at this time you'll have lots of time to brush up on your skills before Hillary's run in 2016.; May 29, 2008 10:34 PM
jpsedona said...: Vermont Teddy Bears has created a Hillary Bear... yes, you know before I say it, it's a pander bear...; May 29, 2008 10:36 PM
vwis said...: All,

I just came here after watching Fox News story on Paster Phlegel and that Obama has denounced him. Phlegel was overly dramatic in making Hillary look like she has entitlement issues.

In light of that, I hope you all don't denounce me. I realize that some of the things I have said about Hillary could be inflammatory. (ie. Hillary's Cookie Recipe) In my defense I do have to say that the cookies may be a little tasty, but not harmful to him and I at least asked her to serve them with his favorite tea.

I guess I should probably denounce some of you too. Yamaka use to say birds of a feather... I associated with him and Jean, I just was being open-minded. Now there's a novel idea on this site.; May 29, 2008 10:39 PM
Aunt Jean said...: jpsedona well amybe instead of maybe should be part of it too. E was a typing err just like yours was. So don't insult me for it.Are you a bitter person sure sounds like it.Leave me alone if all you are going to do is insult me! Jean; May 29, 2008 10:40 PM
apissedant said...: jpsedona,
Thanks for the link, I was able to google the results. It looks like if I want to see the details, I need to learn Spanish. Interesting side note, the plus or minus is 3.45%. WTF? I want to see how they calculate the +-, because it violates basic scientific rules. Only one significant figure is used when properly reporting error.; May 29, 2008 10:41 PM
janices20 said...: Hillary is not a viable candidate. She says people know her which is DEFINITELY why she is not the nominee.

The people want change. We've had experience and see where that got us.

Hilliary it is time to turn the chapter and end the campaign.; May 29, 2008 10:42 PM
stopOBAMAnow said...: "They agree on MOST issues."-Indepen

I disagree.

They are fundamentally different people of different mind set.

1. On the Iraq war, ObaBush is just an Opportunistic Politician: When he was outside the US Senate he opposed the War - a reckless, irresponsible act at that time because nearly 70% of Americans believed that Saddam was holding WMD from the Intelligence presented.

By late 2004, it became clear there was no WMD - the whole country was disappointed. ObaBush went to US Senate and supported the War funding from Day One, unlike Dennis Kucinich and Ron Paul.

Why didn't he act like Kucinich?

Sen Clinton voted for war, as most other Senators did and voted for all the war fundings as ObaBush did.

ObaBush is just another political Opportunist.

2. Unless you make Universal Health care for ALL, it can not be implemented to contain costs and make it worthwhile. John Edwards knew it and ObaBush could not understand it.

He was demagoguing with that issue using words like "Wage Garnishing" - a Socialist slogan!

Young workers are generally in good health, and most of them (about 40 million)do not want to get health insurance - but most of these people will NOT hesitate to use the Emergency Room if they are sick or illness due to accidents.

Treating these people at the ER is enormously costly. Who is going to pay for it? The insured people or revenues from other sources.

There cannot be any free lunch. Some body should pay for the costs.

If you include ALL, the pool size increases and the RISK is reduced and the cost contained. This is Econ 101.

We spend about 14% of the GDP now on healthcare. Using UHC for ALL we can eventually bring the cost down to 7% - the amount other advanced countries pay for it.

ObaBush cannot attain real UHC by giving exemption to healthy people.

3. He wants to lift the income cap on SS taxation; she does not want to. This is humongous in term of money taxed on small businesses, partnerships and the self-employed.

Here he is acting like a Socialist: tax the rich and feed the rest, as Yam puts it perfectly.

Therefore, please DO NOT say they agree on MOST issues - maybe, they agree on just War Issue, that's it.

Sen Clinton is a moderate and ObaBush is a Liberal ideologue.

I call him ObaBush because like Bush he is terribly inexperienced and very rich - a lethal combination to repeat history in the American Presidential Politics!

So, Stop ObaBush Now.; May 29, 2008 10:44 PM
Aunt Jean said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; May 29, 2008 10:45 PM
jpsedona said...: Aunt Jean,

You don't need any of my help in being bitter & alone. None of us should pick on you; maybe you're naturally rude?

Also, which man are you going to be supporting after Obama secures the nomination?
Obama or McCain?; May 29, 2008 10:46 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Janices20 Hillary is exactly what we need we DON"T NEED someone in there that hasn't got enough experience or we know very little about. It's real easy to say we can [can he?] who knows.Jean; May 29, 2008 10:46 PM
Aunt Jean said...: jpsedona like you aren't rude give me a break you really should sit back and read your posts they are full of rude comments. Jean; May 29, 2008 10:48 PM
jpsedona said...: apissedant,

Keep in mind that Vocera is a newspaper, so polling is not their strong suit. So, in addition to their statistical info, you don't really know if it's representative pool of respondents.; May 29, 2008 10:48 PM
Meg said...: Aunt Jean:

Thank you for your kind words. Let me tell you that I think Obama is absolutely magnificent. I am not ashamed to tell you that it is a gloriously emotional reaction. I'm listening to a politician and I like what I hear. When was the last time that happened? In addition to his stance on the issues, the man has integrity and does not belittle people or use other people's mistakes to make himself look good. I REALLY like this guy.

So when you post things like:

"I hope if they let obama STEAL [yes STEAL] this race I hope and pray that Hillary can run Independent."

"He is a terrible debater he spits, stutters, and hem haws around. He will not answer a direct question. He looks totally nauseous but I think it's very funny and I get a good laugh. LOL LOL LOL Jean"

"kudo If anyone's ignorent here it is you for voting for obama. Just goes to show how low class you are don't call me ignorent I don't know who you think you are but I guess I am better than you.Jean"

it's extremely offensive. You are insulting somebody I admire. On the other hand, when we discuss facts and issues without insulting each other, that's cool. You are not ignorant for supporting Hillary and I am not ignorant for supporting Obama.

I hope I haven't pissed you off with these words. I don't mean to tell you how to post, only to tell you how I have felt about many of your messages to others.; May 29, 2008 10:51 PM
Aunt Jean said...: emma I really only do that when they start insulting me, Hillary, or the fact that I'm a hillary supporter. I know that isn't really a good excuse but it is the reason. Jean; May 29, 2008 10:54 PM
vwis said...: All.

While I guess none of care to denounce me maybe you will regret this later. That being said I guess that I stick it out with you too.

Aunt Jean,

Noted your comment regarding Hillary's position on Gay Marriage. According to a friend of mine a Gay hairdresser from Arkansas, there may be good reason for that.; May 29, 2008 10:57 PM
Unknown said...: Oregon dem,
You said your daughter was heading to Ann Arbor...

Most neighborhoods in Ann Arbor, well North of the I-94 interstate are safe, but I would recommend she lives not too far from Campus, there are all kinds of housing... Small houses (usually shared by 2 to 4 grad students), to apt complexes...
She needs to make sure she doesn't get in one of those complexes with a lot of Undergrads... they party too much and it's usually more noisy, dirty...
It's a nice little town!
wish her good luck; May 29, 2008 11:01 PM
Meg said...: One more SD for Obama, maybe two! Good night all.; May 29, 2008 11:07 PM
vwis said...: Emma,

Good night, and thanks for the good news.; May 29, 2008 11:11 PM
vwis said...: Aunt Jean,

No comment? Or have you put me on ignore?; May 29, 2008 11:20 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Another SUPER DUPER for Obama!

Boyd Richie (TX) added.
DCW is still waiting for confirmation on his wife Betty Richie (TX).

Total number of delegates needed to secure the nomination:

OBAMA 42 (41 w/Betty)
Clinton 244

TEXAS is coming thru for Obama!

Hallelujah!

.; May 29, 2008 11:21 PM
vwis said...: To All the recent posters:

I do notice that your tone is much better. I had found that this site tends to bash each other more than necessary at times. Way to go.; May 29, 2008 11:24 PM
Unknown said...: Aunt Jean,
Your comment at 10:26... and for the:
"I am a big fighter not with fists but with words when it's something I really believe in."

Well that the most compelling argument I've seen you make. It makes total sense.
Why don't you fight for your cause the way you did on that comment?
I'm sure you'd sound more credible; May 29, 2008 11:30 PM
apissedant said...: jpsedona,
That was kind of my point. This makes a grand total of two polls, that are two months apart. They are both by inexperienced pollsters, and one of them doesn't even properly report statistics. It is quite possible Hillary will win Puerto Rico, but I don't see this as valid evidence.
This is added to the fact that Zogby and Rasmussen differ on the GE prediction by 13%, and each claim a less than 5% margin of error. These two polls are only 10 days apart, so either they are BS, or voters are ridiculously fickle, and polls more than 5 days prior to an election don't matter anyways. Oh, and those are of course two well respected pollsters, not an upstart that hasn't done it before.; May 29, 2008 11:31 PM
Kujo said...: Aunt Jean, I love your 10:26 post, no really I do.

The problem I have is this. Your so passionate about yoru candidate that you want her to win no matter what. Lets use Michigan and Flordia as an example. The DNC had this issue with Flordia and Michigan way before the race tightened up. The DNC made its rules and all the candidates agreed to them. Now after nobody campained in these states, you strongly feel that these votes should count. That would so cheap way to win. Set up the rules, tell the compitition it does not count, then change the rules and give you those states. Now you say that this is only fair because some National Ad appeared in Florida. Of course anyone could see right through this. How would this benifit anyone? You then call Obama a cheater and he would steal the election (even though he will most likely win counting all of Michigan and Florida as is).

I just wish you would keep your passion to ideas with substance, like you did in this last post.

For me leadership ability rarely comes with Experience. What I mean about this is I see so many people with Experience that could not lead a camel to water. I have not seen this leadership ability in Clinton. That does not mean I do not think she is good person with good ideas.

In either case, they will produce a team (cabinit) that will be strong in all areas. This is where Bush screwed up. Not only was he not qualified, he made sure the people he brought on would listen to only what he said.; May 29, 2008 11:31 PM
apissedant said...: leah,
You always stay hopeful and above the fray. May you be a model to us all.; May 29, 2008 11:32 PM
Dr. in Ann Arbor said...: Betty Richie added on superdelegate page; May 29, 2008 11:36 PM
vwis said...: Leah,

I had two visions upon awakening the other morning:

1. Hillary has her own TV show. Similar to Judge Judy, only she is a self-appointed Supreme Court Justice presiding over appeals to the Supreme Court.

2. That you, Matt, Yoursi and I present a Show Format to NBC, since we like their newscasters. Its about a husband and wife in Houston, Tx and a friend who run a blog about politics. I would write. I'm sure it would be hilarious. What do you think? My favorite bloggers could be her husband and her alter ego.

I'll remove this one is you ask or I am I the one on ignore.; May 29, 2008 11:37 PM
Anonymous said...: Yam, I was happy to see you notice Obama spoke out against the war... at a time when it wasn't popular to do. The country was still circled with patriotism from 9/11, the President had 80% + approval ratings so few dared to go against him publicly, and the cries were if you weren't with us you were unpatriotic.

Perhaps if a few people in Congress, Sen.s Clinton and McCain come to mind, had the time to even read key intelligence reports that were available to them before the 2002 vote to authorize war in Iraq, they could have shown that same foresight that it wasn't so wise to rush in.; May 29, 2008 11:48 PM
vwis said...: I'll post this since Leah hasn't. Don't mean to step on any toes.

Obama 41
Clinton 244

Obama '08; May 29, 2008 11:50 PM
vwis said...: Pablo,

Yamaka is on vacation. He not checking this blog site.; May 29, 2008 11:52 PM
apissedant said...: Now I get to see the men and women behind the curtain. I think all the bloggers should wear masks or something. Anonymity is half of what blogging is, if you get a national press pass and end up on the daily show.... well then you lose the anonymity.; May 29, 2008 11:55 PM

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Tuesday, April 01, 2008

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