Democratic Convention Watch: Open Thread

Tuesday, April 01, 2008

Open Thread

WE'VE MOVED! Democratic Convention Watch is now at http://www.DemocraticConventionWatch.com

Who's going to win, who has a better chance against McCain, or whatever else is on your mind.

We have decided to stop allowing anonymous comments. Not because we don't like reading what people have to say but because Blogger has introduced a new "feature" that makes you go to a second page when the number of comments go over 200.

It's very easy to set up a Google account so that you can continue commenting.

And please be excellent to one another. We do not accept name calling or any attacks on our commenters. Any objectionable comments will be deleted. Try to be civil.

Thanks!

Previous Open Thread here
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4317 comments:

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RobH said...: My bad.....

It's not 'bryangw'
It's 'stopobamanow'
(Or maybe both, who knows.)

When I wrote the bryangw piece I was giving Yam WAY too much credit for cleverness and disguise.

stopobamanow reveals my over-assessment.

Too, too funny.....; May 28, 2008 12:00 PM
Unknown said...: Bryangw --about your comment on 8:03

It's been often said that Hillary's voters would not vote for Obama, but those are just rumors, most of which are not founded. The roots of these rumors lay in Hillary's relentless rhetoric for the past month or so that the "white" working class would not vote for Obama. This a was very destructive strategy that was meant to divide the party, and specifically to drive people like you to act like a real democrat, and go for the greater interests of the democratic party in making sure they're the ones in the WH comes next year.

I don't want to say anything bad about Hillary, as I think she would be a lot better than McCain, but she has run a very negative campaign, with the "win-at-all-cost" strategy, which proved to me at least, that she's not a bit worried of the greater good of the democratic party, it seems like she doesn't care who will be in the WH next year if it's not HER.

Now, the electability of Clinton is based on her own analysis. However, if you take a look at the latest polls conducted in CA, OH, VA, PA, amongst other states... you will see that Obama is toppling McCain with a higher margin than Clinton is.

You can refer to some msgs from yesterday to get the links to those polls. There is also a poll that averages all major polls and surveys conducted in the last 3 months, and in no time (during those 3 months) has Clinton overtaken Obama's lead.; May 28, 2008 12:01 PM
Dr. in Ann Arbor said...: Looks like Yama-dabba-doo is back:

stopOBAMAnow said...
Hello there:

I have been reading a lot on this site!

Only today I ventured into diving into the water!

My opinion is this site is infested with more of Obamaniacs than others.

Anyway, here is my take on this Nomination of the Democratic Party.

And by the way - it seems unlikely that states will 'jump ahead' their primaries in coming years; the rationale was to make sure the early primaries had a voice in the election. Now EVERYONE has a voice, regardless of when they vote, since the primaries are going right to the end. Remember, this NEVER used to happen. After Super Tuesday, the nominees were essentially known. Now everyone is involved. It's a good thing. But at what cost?; May 28, 2008 12:01 PM
Naiomi said...: Hi Jean, I think both Obama and Clinton supporters are panicked remembering the feelings of having an election stolen from us. It will be great next week when we will hopefully have a candidate we can focus on getting elected. Maybe we should all take a step back. We are in this together. Here is to the next DEMOCRATIC POTUS. Just something to remember...even if we have a candidate next week we still have to get them elected in the fall.

What does it mean to you to be a democrat? What general principle are important to you this year?

For my part I want to see my country back on a good path. I don't want the mantle of the world's police. It's too costly in many ways to bear that mantle. We have many things to focus on at home.

"The price of freedom is eternal vigilance."
Thomas Jefferson; May 28, 2008 12:02 PM
Anonymous said...: Hmmmm.....

stopOBAMAnow, you seem to have a common theme. Stating why you won't vote for Obama, but not mentioning any issues where your choice is better. Kinda reminds me of someone else here.....; May 28, 2008 12:08 PM
greywolf said...: Okay everyone. I have since 3 this morning been on line looking up all polling data as it relates to the general election. I took the most recent poll for each state and this is the results as who will win each state. In a head to head BO vs HC vs Mc

McCain will take: AL,AK AZ GA, ID, IN, KS LO, MS, DM,MT, NE, NH, NC, OK,SC, SD, TN, TX, UT, WI, WY

HC will take: FL, KY, MA, NY, OH, PA, RI, WV

BO will take: CA, CO, CT, DE, HI, IL, IO, ME, MD,MI, MN, NV, NJ, NM, OR, VT, VA, WA, WI

SO in the terms of democrats you can take both HC and BO states and that is what the democrats will win.; May 28, 2008 12:14 PM
RobH said...: stopobamanow,

car trouble??; May 28, 2008 12:16 PM
greywolf said...: Some of the polling data was 2months old, so it is not that accurate but it is the current data avialable. I would say that the probability is that NC, AL, MS, SC, GA, and maybe TX may go democratic based upon the actual primary Rep and Dem vote totals.; May 28, 2008 12:19 PM
RobH said...: Wouldn't it be great if the Repub's pay by the post, but specify an upper limit (like a thousand)? So Yam, merely tapped out, and had to start a new account.

No... that doesn't make sense 'cause it doesn't explain the lengths of his posts. They must pay by the line...; May 28, 2008 12:19 PM
greywolf said...: Also I would like to note that in head to head GE Obama vs McCain in the battle ground states the results as of yesterday am were

Obama 372
McCain 264 (260 something)

Where as in a head to head of McCain vs Clinton, the numbers were no longer listed as she was no longer considered a viable democratic nominee.; May 28, 2008 12:22 PM
jean said...: Re Pro
Edwards was in there.
He did endorse later.
I see her difference in opinion.
Obama gets half of Florida?
A mess was made and needs to be cleaned up.
Last I looked at the #'s Obama would still win.
HRC has the right to disagree.
I believe it is called the Democratic Process.
Could this be part of the process
to heal the party?
There are many that believe that Obama cannot win in November.
I see Obama trying to nominate the Justices and I hear the Republicans saying "Are you doing this so that her daughter is never burdened with a child?"
You know that is going to happen.
I know you think this is just emotion but it is not. It is also insulting with your wide array of assumptions, I am not a bigot nor a extreme femist.
jean; May 28, 2008 12:23 PM
greywolf said...: any way back to what I was doing, searching for information on the web as to who is doing what to whom. I will pass any notworthy infor as I stumble across it.; May 28, 2008 12:25 PM
Emit R Detsaw said...: Campaign Reform

Change the election process (at least for the Primaries) so that the states vote in alphabitical order one time, then reverse order the next. Cover a ten week process where 5 States would hold their primaries every Tuesday. That would give each candidate a full day in each State, with a couple extra days for debates and fundraising.; May 28, 2008 12:26 PM
greywolf said...: Jean,

"IF" the trends of the past few weeks speak of things to come. no matter who the democrat nominee is, there will be few problems getting any thing through the house and senate as many of the republicans will be voted out of office.; May 28, 2008 12:28 PM
Mug said...: jean:

If you think people are rude just because they say something you would rather not hear, you'd never make the debate team. Bryan asked why more Obama supporter would still vote for Clinton if she were the nominee but not vice versa. My answer was plain and truthful. Those of the Clinton supporters who would cross party lines would do so for two reasons. Either Obama's skin color offends them or they're bitter and vengeful because they wanted a woman president and Obama got in the way. In either case, Obama's plans for improving the economy, our image in the world, jobs and education never enter the picture. They are, in effect, putting their own personal feelings ahead of what's best for the country, which might explain why they like Clinton so much. Has she not done the same thing in the last few months?; May 28, 2008 12:28 PM
Peter said...: The truth is that most Clinton supporters will support Obama in the end. When the GE season gets going, we will see the differences between McCain and Obama. "frustrated" clinton supporters will realize that they don`t have much in common with McCain and his view on major issues.

If we had a opposite situation where Clinton was leading Obama with 200 delegates, we would probably see a lot of Obama-supporters claiming they wouldn`t vote for Clinton. The fact is that most of us would support Clinton because we share her vied on several major political issues.

Yes there are democratic racists who won`t vote for Obama, but they are not that many.
I think most Clinton supporters support her because she is a stron woman, because of what Bill Clintin did politically in the white house etc. Most Clinton-supporters will not deflect and I think many of the ones who are racist will probably stay home rather than vote for McCain.

There is NO way "real feminists" will choose McCain over Obama, Mccain called his wife a C... among other things. Yes, some say they will vote for mcCain now, but the GE is not now... It is the "frustration"-effect and it will weaken as soon as Clinton quits and she will quit before the convention either by being forced out by her own superdelegates who switch or by realizing that she can`t win against Obama in this primary (which is the truth).; May 28, 2008 12:35 PM
Anonymous said...: Perhaps...

even though you posted the same exact attacks, but had not done them in the same order as when you were posting as Yamaka, it wouldn't have been quite as obvious.; May 28, 2008 12:39 PM
Unknown said...: countjellybean--for your questions about the other two delegates...

One from Colorado (Waak or smthg)
The other one is: Meredith Wood Smith of Portland --chairwoman of the Democratic Party of Oregon and one of 12 Oregon superdelegates; May 28, 2008 12:40 PM
jean said...: Hello naiomi
Wow.
I totally agree with you.
I am so fed up with the world police that I am getting close to being an isolationist, which I know is wrong.
My daughter helps with raising money for Darfur and she keeps reminding me;)
We keep sending money out and we don't help our own.
In 100 years the US has traversed mountians compared to prior history.
We can have some serious changes if the person has the experience.
A person without the experience could really mess it up.
I need to consider if it is worth it to wait 4 more years.
A mishandling could costs us 8 years or more.
Thank you very much for the civil discourse.
jean; May 28, 2008 12:41 PM
billyjay66 said...: The perception (created) is that once 2024 is reached 2210 is the next hurdle and it can't be reached. you know, tell a lie often enough and people will believe it.

Here are the numbers for worst case scenario - giving Hillary all she can take. Obama is already 75% towards the last hurdle! He will have well over 2150. With 40 pledged delegates(conservative) out of the remaining primaries. See Michigan table at sidebar:

Total Obama delegates

pledged...........1747.5
primaries.............40
Edwards..............18
Uncommitted........37

total................2172.5
supers needed......38
total................2211

That is giving all Edwards and uncommitted - that is the way it has gone so far. So any that he doesn't get would add to supers needed.; May 28, 2008 12:43 PM
jean said...: Re greywolf
I hope your "IF" holds.
Re Mug
So that is the only reason.
Must be nice to live in your world with such absolutes.
I have no problem with disagreements just rude absolute behavior.
jean; May 28, 2008 12:59 PM
billyjay66 said...: stop obama now

Short vacation yamaha! Last post 10:00 first stopobamanow post - 11.:46. Very creative - HELLO! sign on and STOP OBAMA NOW sign-off that's different. Double spacing and enumerated lists. Come on now! Your new profile has been viewed one time I was the second. Its too bad we didn't all pretend we didn't know you and let you go on; May 28, 2008 1:02 PM
Naiomi said...: Jean,

I think Obama is a thoughtful person and will listen to different ideas if he becomes president; however, it will take more than one person to fix the mess we are in so I hope the senate will be more proactive with a democratic president. I wish the senate and congress had done more in these last two years. I would have rather seen them try and fail over and over than do not much at all.

I am not going to try and convince you that Obama has experience because I have a feeling you have been reading everyone else's arguments already made here. Lets just say you are right about inexperience for the sake of argument(even though I don't agree with this ;) ) I say vote for him anyways. He will at least try to do the right things as president. If he succeeds we can all celebrate; if he fails miserably I say we don't automatically re-nominate him in four years.

P.S. I also enjoy the civil discourse.; May 28, 2008 1:10 PM
jean said...: Re naiomi
There is not a doubt in my mind that Obama is a good guy.
I look at this as business.
I would never higher him with his experience in the public specter.
My issue is that if he does screw up(if he wins)that there will be no turning back. The republicans will then get 8 years.
The dems are the minorities.
I think the only way we will win is by turning some Rep.
If we donot do it the first 4 years we will lose them.
Nice chat.; May 28, 2008 1:20 PM
stopOBAMAnow said...: Fellow Americans:

It's very funny that you call me Yam, Yamaka and all other names!

Name calling seems to be your profession. Your way of dealing with Opposition or Alternate Point of View!!

Yes, I remember I have read a lot that Yam posted in the past several weeks.

Many of them make absolute sense to me. I am a moderate, now an Independent, sick and tired of the demagoguery of the Democrats! But my vote will count in Nov 2008.

I am worried about the WAR, Economy and National Security.

1. On Iraq War: What did the Democrats do since coming to power in 2006. Nothing.

The position of Obama on war has been one major flip-flopping: When he was outside the US Senate he was against the War, but once he was inside the Senate, he has been supporting the War, unlike Dennis Kucinich. As presented with the intelligence information by Powell etc. I thought like 70% other Americans going to war is the right thing to do. But Obama, AT THAT TIME, was very reckless and irresponsible - he opposed the War.

After several months, it became apparent that there was no WMD. Then, it became clear to me and most other Americans that WAR was totally unnecessary and we need to quit Iraq. But Obama kept funding the War. Therefore, on WAR his position has been one of Opportunistic Politics, than of any substance.

2. Economy weakened very seriously in the past 1.5 years when the Congress was with Pelosi and Reed. The sub-prime mess started on their watch. What did they do?

Whenever Obama talks about any Economic issue, I get the feeling that a high school is talking! He is simply a demagogue. He has no plans at all. He has trashed President Bill Clinton so much during this Nomination, Obama cannot get his help in understanding as to what is happening in the Economy. How is he going to create new jobs? Expand the economy? Obama is simply a novice. He just cannot understand it, it is too complicated for him.

3. We are at war with Iraq AND the fundamentalist Islam. Obama's position on anarchic fundamentalist Islam is not very clear. He sends very mixed signals. He is too much aligned with the Palestinian issues, which would mare his over all approach to the fundamentalist Islam, which tries to undermine secular modernity.

Women's Right and Equality is an anathema to the Fundamentalist Islam. Obama has no understanding of the virulent destructive instincts of Osama, Aiyman and Ahamedin'jad etc. He wants to be cozy with them.

Obama is totally out of step with America, and terribly inexperienced.

We need an Experienced Hand at the Top.

Stop Obama Now.

Fellows, stop name calling: Focus on issues seriously. America is in serious trouble now.

She needs a very strong Leader.

Is it McCain or Clinton? You answer it!; May 28, 2008 1:21 PM
greywolf said...: Okay, does eveyone want something to really laugh about this morning?

Hillary sent a letter to the DNC and stated that after this round of primaries, she expects to have the popular vote and voted delegate lead.
As it stands she is 161 behind in delegate votes and there are only 80 something remaining. Now that is real fuzz math.
As far as popular vote is concerned as it stands she is behind by 458K + using the current
rules. So does that mean she is going to sweep the remaining 3 primaries with a 90% margin times 2? LMO

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/05/28/clinton-says-she-expects-lead-in-popular-vote-primary-delegates/; May 28, 2008 1:25 PM
greywolf said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; May 28, 2008 1:27 PM
vwis said...: Greywolf,

I also heard on another blog that they are going to quadruple the FL and MI. To appease Clinton's need to keep raising the bar. Now that how I punish my kids what wrong with you.

It was also suggested to use a formula involving pi to bring the DNC full circle on this.; May 28, 2008 1:36 PM
Meg said...: stopOBAMAmow cannot be Yammer because his English is too good.

I believe that once people get to know Obama they will see how much integrity he has. How many times has he NOT jumped at the chance to slam Hillary?

Meanwhile his supporters and his opponents can get angry and rude at times because they care.

This is a great website. Let's continue to argue and inform. I, for one, am getting more than a little worried about Saturday. Riot police? Cable news will all be there.

I have no doubt that Obama can beat McCain. I'll take judgment and the desire to listen over McCain's misunderstanding about Iraq anyday.; May 28, 2008 1:39 PM
judyob said...: There is an interesting article about Hillary's long term strategy on FL & MI:
http//www.cqpolitics.com/wmspage.cfm?docid=news-000002884518; May 28, 2008 1:50 PM
elwood1977 said...: Greetings all -

Just trying to figure out this whole Clintonistas vs. Obamaniacs throwdown we find ourselves mixed up in. It just seems to me that early on Clinton was the heavy favorite, and expected to win easily. Those expectations lead to her misjudging a relative newcomer, and his ability to inspire. This political misjudgement lead her directly to the well from which she is currently drinking. The well of denial. I am an independent voter, who has tried to remain objective throughout this nomination process. In terms of full disclosure, I voted for Obama and have contributed to his campaign. Before I did so, I listened to Clinton, Edwards, and Obama. The differences are not vast, but enough for me at the time to support Obama. With the campaigns falling into the familiar politics of old, I am still comfortable with my decision. Can someone explain to me why I keep seeing so many Clinton supports so arduously lashing out at the obvious and inevitable outcome to this nomination. I would say let us all come together as Democrats and retake the White House, but I am not a Democrat. I am an American, and I'd like us to come together as just that. Americans.; May 28, 2008 1:58 PM
Mug said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; May 28, 2008 2:25 PM
Mug said...: jean wrote:

Re Mug
So that is the only reason.
Must be nice to live in your world with such absolutes.
I have no problem with disagreements just rude absolute behavior.
___________________________________

I'm open to alternatives. Please enlighten us as to what other reasons Clinton supporters might cross party lines and vote for McCain. What are the finer points of his policies on education, economy, health care and the war in Iraq that have Clinton supporters so insensed that they're ready to vote in four more years of leadership by a another corporate puppet?; May 28, 2008 2:28 PM
RobH said...: Jean,

I’ve read your discourse with Naiomi and Pro and others with great interest. You strike me as a true Dem, who is only hesitant towards Obama due to what you fear may be bad outcomes as a result of what you perceive as little experience. I’d like to offer you another lens through which to view your choices as you decide between Obama and McCain.

From all I’ve read, and been exposed to, and otherwise learned, the rest of this planet – the mass of other humans with whom we all must learn to co-exist – are generally salivating at the idea that we might elect Obama. They see him as holding the promise for a change in course from our recent trajectory of arrogance, belligerence, and Pax Americana. I think it’s fair to say we’re presently held in this world – by our fellow humans with whom we will either flourish, or not – as more of the problem, than the solution. (I offer global environmental accords, military projections, and energy responsibility as examples.)

Yes, that support is not universal. Yes, some regimes would like to see him elected because they think he will be manipulable. Yes, my pool of information is not statistically significant nor terribly scientific in its basis. But I have friends and contacts in Europe, and they have friends, and so on, and so on. And I read the foreign press. And we have foreign contributors here.

Here’s the lens: if, in great measure, the balance of our global partners hold Obama as the manifestation of a new cooperation, is it unreasonable the think THEY won’t LET him fail as you fear? You fear that he may “screw it up”. But don’t you think THEY are vested in him succeeding?

Yes, it is possible to perceive the world as a zero sum game, where every transaction has a winner and a loser, and every foreign policy exchange results in who “gamed” the other guy better. My own personal belief is that as we all (globally) come to grips with the monumentality of the problems that face us (energy, environment, poverty) we will all conclude that “us vs. them” leads to extinction.

I truly believe that our global partners are seeing this sooner than we are, and that is why they prefer Obama. And if they prefer him, they are vested in him because he offers a new trajectory. And if THEY are vested in him, then the outcomes you fear, will not be allowed to materialize, and you should not fear them.

IMO.; May 28, 2008 2:30 PM
Unknown said...: Greywolf,
I read the CNN.com article you posted earlier,
http://edition.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/05/27/roland.martin/index.html

Then, I read the comments, most of which were from Clinton supporters. Those are REAL Clinton supporters. They defend her without the added delusions we've read here from couple of our bloggers.; May 28, 2008 2:32 PM
Emit R Detsaw said...: Well Said RobH; May 28, 2008 2:42 PM
JayW said...: Hillary has NO CLASS!!!!

None, zero, zip....

I cant wait for her to breakdown into tears after reality sets in. That will be GREAT!!!!

No nomination, no VP slot, nothing... return to the senate for your term and try your best to get re-elected there... by all indications, that wont happen either. Her political career is over, done, wasted.

I LOVE IT!!!!!; May 28, 2008 3:07 PM
Unknown said...: Jean,

I somewhat agree with your claim made at 11:21 am about being civil in this blog. I do agree that we shouldn't focus our reactions on Clinton but rather on McSame...

But, see there are a bunch of Neo-cons who hijacked this site are trying to pass for Clinton supporters, by publishing non-sense after non-sense. So, I really apologize for the reactions, though they were not aimed at you nor Pablo.

Now, for one to say that they will switch from Clinton to McSame because of all the bad Obama has done. I would have to see this as TREASON.

The reason being simply that to vote for someone who goes against everything you believe in, just because your candidate didn't make it to the GE is low and stupid (and I'm not calling you or anybody else stupid, but the decision is!)

Hillary herself said that Obama has very similar policies to hers. She often said that not many things differentiate them, except for the gas tax vote, the support for NAFTA, and talking to our enemies with preconditions or with preparation (and there is a big difference bwn the two).

Now, if your judgment is based on character flaws, then I would really have to disagree with you there.

Obama has attacked Clinton on issues and issues only!!!!
All Clinton has done lately is diminish his appeal to people. She's said again and again, that he can't get elected by women and by the white working class, when all polls proved differently.

Now, of course Clinton has more appeal amongst those constituents, but that doesn't mean that they would rather vote for someone who would take the money that should go to their kids' education, to their healthcare, and to fixing the economy, to fight some imaginary enemy that has imaginary WMD.

I'm sure they will say that they are fed up with paying for a war that doesn't make them any safer, that made the price of oil increase 400%, and that hurt our Economy... And those who don't, just don't know what's really going on. Thus, some would call them IGNORANT.

Now, the last time I checked, TREASON is punished by death in this country, so I would be a little more lenient if some people are angry when they see a traitor in their ranks... unless they're not really democrats:); May 28, 2008 3:15 PM
elwood1977 said...: Jason,

Treason may be a bit harsh, but I agree with most of your post. Well thought out and presented in a respectful manner. Thanks.; May 28, 2008 3:27 PM
billyjay66 said...: jason

re: roland martin article and comments at bottom.

thanks for pointing out the comments. What I saw were Clinton supporters were in two distinct categories!

1) FORMER supporters!!!! Wishing to take their vote back and not ready to play at that level.

2) Bitter, mad and ready to fight. Also thy were brainwashed always repeating the mantras right from Hillary's mouth

Here is a new way to calculate the popular vote winner. We all need yet another version of Primary Math ver. 3.4.6 right?

Take a poll of voters for hillary willing to take it back now. Then add those votes to the obama column. Even 1 percent would leave her 200k down no mater how many soviet style elections she claims!; May 28, 2008 3:36 PM
Mike Ruth said...: Clinton (Hillary, that is) today stated (on CNN) that she has sent a letter to SuperDelegates saying, in part:

"I expect to lead in the popular vote and in delegates earned through primaries … I hope you will consider not just the strength of the coalition backing me, but also that more people will have cast their votes for me".

Notice she excludes counting of Delegates earned through CAUCUSES. This is a direct attack on any voters in states that followed the Party rules for their state and selected their delegates using caucuses.

This Popular Vote thing is a BIG LIE - that must be rejected completely, in favor of the Democratic Party RULES that all the candidates signed up to.

Only DELEGATES count, Hillary, you desperate, usurping wretch.

Senator Clinton is working AGGRESSIVELY to destroy the Democratic Party Rules for delegate selection and replace them with a convenient focus on primaries, and so-called popular votes. Of course the PV count accords only to her conception of votes (e.g. she want Obama to get zero in Michigan).

I predict she tries to use this Popular Vote canard all the way to the Convention, unless/until enough SuperDelegates weigh in to put a stop to her Party-killing ways.

Will it never end?; May 28, 2008 3:36 PM
Keryl said...: Clinton's fuzzy math...

Here's how I understand they keep coming up with a "popular vote lead".

1) They are counting MI with 0 votes for Obama (no worries about the 40% of the population in MI who voted AGAINST Clinton)and FL
3) They aren't counting caucus states that didn't release pop. vote info, all of which Obama won. (No worries disenfranchising those voters either)
4) In the end they will likely count Puerto Rico, which does not vote in the general election.

It's a huge stretch, can you imagine if Obama had tried to make the same argument if the situation were reversed. It's really actually impressive and a testament to her skill that the press lets her get away with it.; May 28, 2008 3:53 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: greywolf -

Two quick things:

One was taken off because of the Rodriquez switch earlier in the evenging.

So, night before I went to bed (3am) the number needed for Obama to win was 48 (not 46)

Then today 2 supers were added for Obama - so now the correct number IS 46.

As far as Hllary's statement about being ahead in pledged delegates from the 'primaries' at the end of the race - she is NOT counting the delegates from the caucuses! She sure knows how to SPIN and twist the facts!

.; May 28, 2008 3:59 PM
Unknown said...: to stopOBAMAnow, or should I say... Yamamia!?

"My opinion is this site is infested with more of Obamaniacs.."
Well we can see that when someone can't argue on facts start calling names... very typical of republicans!!!

"Till recently, I used be a member of the Party; lately the Party has moved away from me."
I don't think you were ever a member of this party, because what you're claiming is not founded.

"Last two years, the Democrats rule the Congress, but nothing has really happened about the War or the Economy."
The democrats, since they regained the House, have tried to pass many bills, but most of them were either vetoes by the president or had to be changed b/c of the veto threat. They had to lure the president into signing the GI Bill just so he can get the military budget he asked for.

The republicans want money for the military, but none of it goes directly to soldiers (especially the injured, or the family of the ones killed in combat). They don't want to assist them in furthering their education, they don't want to invest in making their transition into civilian life smoother, and they try to deny them help, when they come back with PTS.

So, please stop the BS about the republicans being good for the military, and let's revisit all the bills they voted for. NONE of them are to socially, or financially, or educationally help the soldiers, but rather to help the companies that build more phony weapons that will never be used. Of course they do, they are their main contributors, fund-raisers, and lobbyists (along with the Oil companies).

"Pelosi and Reed are as useless as any other politician"
I can spot another republican slogan. You can't stop, can you?

1. "Obama is the least known guy in the heartland of America. He is known among the Blacks and college kids, some "college-educated" crowd. That's it."
Well, to answer that, he wasn't know to anybody before he ran in the Illinois senate race in 2004. Now, I don't think presidents are elected based on how much they're known, otherwise we would have voted for Michael Jackson or Brad Pitt, but because of many other points:
1. Leadership potential,
2. The strength of character,
3. Intelligence, and the ability to understand the effect of international policy
4. The ability to listen to the will of the people when making your decisions, and sometimes also
5. Class

Now Bush hasn't shown merely any of these qualities, except maybe a little of 2

Clinton however, has shown to be good in 1 and 3, but lately she lacked in 2, 4, and 5, and it's only getting worse for her.

Again, don't take this for what it's not. She has the right to remain in the race till the last primary, but she DOES NOT have the right to keep going at it with the NEGATIVITY, it undermines all the good she's done in her political career.

"He is for income and wealth redistribution, rather than creating new wealth in America."
Yet another REPUBLICAN rhetoric. He is for helping the poor get out of their misery, he's for the middle-class to be able to afford sending their kids to college. He's for the elderly to be able to retire on some social security. Should I remind you that we live in the greatest nation on earth, and that it is shameful to see pictures of New Orleans and how people are living down there, when there is so much wealth in this country. Giving a helping hand to the needy is a DEMOCRATIC value, while as giving a helping hand to the rich oil companies (the highest profits recorded in American history) is definitely a REPUBLICAN value.

"His lack of understanding of the foreign policy and National Security matters make me feel that America will be worse of with Obama."
That really is the best argument you've given so far, or should I say the funniest!?
Are you comparing it to BUSH's failed policies, which made us the most hated nation on earth?
are you talking about treating other rogue nations as "Axis of Evil" when that will only make them prove their case to others
Are you talking about the first thing BUSH had done when he came to office? Indeed, are you talking about the ratification of the KYOTO treaty, because we don't need to protect the environment?
Are you talking about lying to the American people about enemies we never had?
Are you talking about making us safer by going to Iraq, when it did the exact opposite by creating a safe haven for terrorist to grow funder of the "America-hating" slogans?
Are you talking about reality or some Sci-Fi movie you just saw on cable?

"His friends are very Far Left Liberals like Kerry, Kennedy and Carter."
You know if I can call any of those people my friend, I would be the happiest and the proudest I can ever be.
You REPUBLICAN, when will you understand that liberal is not an insult. It might be to some ignorant, ill-educated few, but it's not in my book, and it's not to anybody who calls him/herself a DEMOCRAT.

"America needs a well known well experienced Leader to lead the country during a very turbulent times of our Union."
If that's what we look for in a president, that's what we got with BUSH, and I believe he's the one who got us to the "very turbulent times of our Union."

So, please!!!; May 28, 2008 4:08 PM
Emit R Detsaw said...: I hate polls, because while they might get close, they have a human factor to them. Right now there are a lot of speculation polls out that are not truely showing how well the Democratic nominee will do against McCain because of the polarization that has to be overcome from June until November. That being said, the CNN Ticker today had:

"Poll of Polls: Obama, Clinton both leading McCain
Posted: 02:30 PM ET
(CNN)–The CNN general election national poll of polls now shows both Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton leading John McCain McCain by two points: 46 percent to 44 percent.

The last general election poll of polls — released May 15 — showed Obama leading McCain by five points (48 percent to 43 percent) and Clinton leading McCain by four points (48 percent to 44 percent)."

That followed by an article where Clinton stated:

"You have to ask yourself who is the stronger candidate?" she continued. "And based on every analysis of every bit of research and every poll that’s been taken and every state that a democrat has to win, I am the stronger candidate against John McCain in the fall."

Glad this is about over. ;o); May 28, 2008 4:16 PM
elwood1977 said...: Rendell waxes poetic that Hillary "unlikey" to win, and calls Obama weak, undermining the eventual democratic nominee and decreasing the likelyhood of himself being on the ticket.

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2008/05/rendell-clinton.html; May 28, 2008 4:18 PM
Peter said...: Re Keryl

Yes, its extremly fuzzy. I also think one of the reasons Clinton is so against a compromise regarding MI/FL is that if Obama gets delegates from MI she is acknowledging that Obama should get popular votes from MI. Exit polls taken from MI actually says Clinton would only get 46% and NOT 55% if every name was on the ballot and in addition to that, turnout was extremly low (almost the same as in Oregon).

Her popular vote claim is just nonesense. If you include MI you give 0 votes for Obama in MI, you got to be pretty stupid if you think Obama has zero support in MI. Most polls show Obama and Clinton polling quite similar in MI. Both are tied with McCain.

Florida is another story, Clinton IS more popular there at the moment. But, including popular vote here is not fair either. Everyone new the rules and turnout was lower than it probably would have been. FL was one of few states where republicans had a higher turnout than democrats had. And even though Obama had som ads running in close states which reached FL, he didn`t have the chance to campaign or run ads all over the states. It is no secret that Obama was less known than Clinton at that point, so even though I think she would win today (poll showed them tied today) with a narrow margin, I think the result would have been much closer than it was, if Obama could have campaigned and the primary was valid with a solid turnout.

Clintons whole approach to the popular vote, is just laughable. She adds the states she needs and removes the ones she don`t need. I don`t think she has much support for her claim with either supporters or superdelegates.; May 28, 2008 4:28 PM
Peter said...: Re Emit

No, the polls are probably not accurate at the moment, especially not nationally. Obama has a unrealistic low support among democrats, he polls really high among independents.

The thing is that most Obama supporters are "happy" and we will support both Obama and Clinton, while a lot of Clinton supporters are frustrated and are undecided or say they will support McCain.

I have seen several polls where Obama gets only 69% of the democratic votes, while Clinton gets 80-85%, that is unrealistic, he will get better numbers when Clinton gets out. The interesting thing is that Obama polls just as good as Clinton nationally, actually a little better on average and this is while he has a relative low support among democrats.

So, If Obama gets his support among democrats to a normal level, which is highly likely and he keeps his independents, he will win BIG.

This effect is probably hurting him the most in FL, MI, PA and OH. FL and MI because of the delegate problems and because Clinton won there (not sure she would have won MI, but she would have won FL). I`m pretty sure PA is safe, he is ahead in all polls I have seen and the numbers are improving.
He is polling better in OH, but they are more or less tied on average.

FL and MI are the biggest problems, but seating the delegates will probably solve a lot here.

I think there are A LOT of hidden support for Obama in most polls at the moment and he is still polling quite good.

You also have remember that Clinton has been taking a freeride lately, both Obama and McCain is ignoring her, because she won`t be the nominee.; May 28, 2008 4:40 PM
Mug said...: Jason, here are a some popular Republcan slogans:

"I believe in freedom of speech and I'll kill anyone who says different."

"They should put prayer back in schools so the heathen immigrant children can learn about the one true god."

"The indians shouldn't have been on our land when we got here."

"If you don't speak english then you don't belong in America."

"I believe in freedom for anyone... who thinks, acts and looks like me."

"Anyone can succeed in America. Just not everyone."

"You can trust the rich. They know what they're doing"; May 28, 2008 4:43 PM
Unknown said...: Jean (not aunt Jean),

"I would never higher him (Obama) with his experience in the public specter.
My issue is that if he does screw up(if he wins)that there will be no turning back. The republicans will then get 8 years.
The dems are the minorities.
I think the only way we will win is by turning some Rep.
If we donot do it the first 4 years we will lose them."

I'm sorry your argument just does not make any sense. I'm really trying, but... Oh well, let's recap here:
He HAS NO EXPERIENCE, well I'd rather get someone with no experience, but who's got good judgment, then someone who "supposedly" has experience and who makes the wrong decision (the Iraq war).
LACK of EXPERIENCE is a lot better than BAD JUDGMENT in my book.

Now sleeping in the same bed as a president or a governor is not called experience!
CLinton is also a JUNIOR senator, so stop with the experience BS.

PLEASE, correct me if I'm wrong, but you're saying that well since Obama has "NO Experience," and since we don't have any confidence in him calling the shots, or in having him surrounded by highly-experienced staff, that we should vote for a republican as our POTUS!?

You're saying it's better to give the republicans another 4 years (to add to these last 8, so they can ruin us some more, while enriching every single oil company on earth), so in 4 years, we can have someone like Clinton (who's been lying her teeth off, but who has tremendous experience sleeping with a leader)

... And that's better than risking to have someone like Obama for 4 years, in a chance that his inexperience will drive the few republicans we were able to collect from the post-Bush disaster for a presidency.

Just say that you want a Repub to take office, that would make a lot more sense!; May 28, 2008 5:27 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Number of delegates now needed to secure the Democratic nomination:

OBAMA 46
Clinton 245

OBAMA - our next President of the UNITED States of America!; May 28, 2008 5:34 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Jacon that is about a foolish post.It's full of LIES. Jean; May 28, 2008 5:38 PM
stopOBAMAnow said...: jason:

Thanks for your kind reply. You may quit calling me Yam.

Although I have read lots of his posts, including his hilarious "Conversation with Sen BHO", I have my own views, many of which may be in agreement with him! That's good, because we both are moderates.

Recently I received a news clip on Newsweek:

Only 58% of Americans know the religion of Sen Obama.

A good 11% believe he IS a Muslim.

This is very risky for a serious Nominee.

I have been watching this Nomination Process. This is my view on that:

1. The Contest is extremely close, and it could turn either way at the Convention. You can get REAL closure only at the Convention since the SDs can wobble either way hundred times between now and Aug.

2. Sen Obama spends tons of money, nearly 3:1 on regular primaries/caucuses and on "buying" SDs. In spite of it, Sen Clinton has been winning the major battleground States like OH, PA, WV and KY. PR will give her another major victory.

From realclearpolitics.com line 5/6, Sen. Clinton has so far

17,650,671 votes, the Most of ALL the votes casts.

Had the hapless Democrats used the Methodology of the Republicans (who themselves use mostly the GE Methodology, the most relevant Math) she has already become the Presumptive-Nominee, and had they used the EV Math she has 294 EVs, the winning numbers over the 270 EVs.

Therefore, Jason, what you witness is just an artificial state of affairs in the Nomination Process, because of the defective methodology of the Dems, not the true representative of what's happening in the heartland of America.

You say you are proud of being a bleeding liberal. But most of Americans are NOT liberals, they are Centrists/Moderates like me and Yam.

I am very terrified by the inexperience of Sen. Obama, who is getting so much media attention; but the MSM has NOT vetted him thoroughly.

I wish they do.

Stop Obama Now.

Vote for Experience: Either for Clinton or McCain to save America.; May 28, 2008 5:38 PM
Emit R Detsaw said...: Jean, On the experience issue...

Obama has more years in community service and as an elected official than the other Democrat candidate that is still in the race.

But if you want a guage of leadership and organization. All you have to do is look at all three candidates campaigns.

Obama's clearly has the BEST resume. I am in the position to hire and fire folks in my job. I make hiring decisions 3 to 4 times a year. I would hire Obama for any exec postion based on his past performance.; May 28, 2008 5:38 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Jacon that is about a foolish post.It's full of LIES. Jean; May 28, 2008 5:39 PM
Keryl said...: Some thoughts on experience, since that seems to be the latest repub talking point...

Experience is only one of many attributes, and alone is definitely not a great indicator of success (Rumsfeld, Cheney to name a couple).

In fact, if you look at the best presidents as regarded by history, FDR, JFK, Reagan, Clinton, even if you look at the most successful leaders globally, the common attribute is that they are GREAT communicators.

A clear vision and an ability to articulate that vision that inspires people to act, sometimes against their immediate self interest, for the betterment of all. Whether it's a learned skill or just a gift, it is what makes the difference. We're not voting for a policy wonk, president rarely make policy, we're voting for a leader.

If you've ever worked with someone who was a complete idiot even though they've been at their job for 30 years. Or seen a young upstart change the world while still in their twenties (think Google or Bill Gates), you have to acknowledge that experience shouldn't be the primary factor in making a "business" decision about who runs this country.; May 28, 2008 5:41 PM
Keryl said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; May 28, 2008 5:41 PM
apissedant said...: For those that run this web page,
I believe the VP thread should be placed on the left under this, "open thread." The link to it is now effectively hidden, which caused it to die. We still don't have a VP, so I say it is still a viable thread. I can add a please if it would help.; May 28, 2008 5:45 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Harriold very smiple Obama choose to take his name off the list because he didn't think that they were important. Jean; May 28, 2008 5:48 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Greywolf You should have went to the link I gave last night. You are wrong on your polls. Jean; May 28, 2008 5:49 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Mug that is the whole problemwith Obama supporters. I'm not saying that there are some whites that won't vote for Obama because of race but most it has nothing to do with himbeing AA, Part AA, or whatever.It has to do with him:
1.don't trust

2.he's a liar

3.unsavory friens and assocs.

4.thinks he's owed it with the media big help

5. talkeed about hillary like a dog just like the media has.

Jean; May 28, 2008 5:54 PM
apissedant said...: jean,
Obama has not talked about Hillary like she is a dog, but I have no problem doing it if you'd like. I think of her as a retarded untrained dog peeing on the carpet anyways.; May 28, 2008 6:01 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Another super for Obama!

Wayne Kinney - Bend, OR - For Obama

Now needed:

OBAMA 45
Clinton 245

OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA '08; May 28, 2008 6:05 PM
apissedant said...: jason,
Hillary doesn't have any experience sleeping with the president, don't be silly. Lots of women have that experience, but not her.; May 28, 2008 6:05 PM
jean said...: Re jason
mug
and robh
Hello
Thank you for the discourse.
You believe strongly and are obvious very passionate about the subject but gave me respect.
A major part of the problem is the lack of respect which results in name calling etc. between the supporters of both candidates.
There is no doubt that the Rep
are using us for their amusement.
The similarities between the candidates are great.
I feel that HRC could also be excellent for Foreign Policy.
We do need to work better with others in the world but they still have no problem cashing our check.
And they cash a lot of them.
Our foreign policy is important but I feel home needs to take presidence. As I said before I am becoming an isolationist and I am being stopped by my daughter.
I think HRC will get the job done and if there is fallout, well OK.
I think Obama will say he is sorry when we are not accountable for everyone's plight. I do not think he will say "NO". I think he will always say maybe, I think I am getting some Carter flashbacks.
There are going to be some cruel decisions that need to be made to get this country on track.
I think one of the cruel decisions is that we need to drill for oil to survive the next 20 years to survive financially. This is not popular and NO i am not a Republican.
We are not the United Nations Piggy Bank and that will need to be said.
We go to help a nation and nation sends 100(maybe) and we send 1000's and write a check to both.
Obama is the good guy with Change.
I do not think he will make that much change.
I think we need someone to "Show the cow how too eat the cabbage."
In 8 years I think he will have enough experience.
I think we need a CEO not an assistant.
I know you are going to have a field day;0
jean

Please do not tell me about HRC when the actions; May 28, 2008 6:06 PM
apissedant said...: jean,
sorry, I meant aunt jean, forgot there were two of you.; May 28, 2008 6:08 PM
jean said...: I have no idea what is on the bottom of my post at 6:06 but I didn't write it.; May 28, 2008 6:13 PM
Unknown said...: Elwood 1977
This was one of the comments on that article you mentioned (about Rendell, and the weaker candidate!). It summarizes my thoughts:

"After reading this article, I was a little upset and shocked by Gov. Rendell’s comments. Obama ran the better campaign but he is the weaker candidate. Hillary should have won the nomination months ago, but she ran a dismal campaign. Obama was inexperienced and still master the election process. Hillary had 35 years of experience and signed an agreement to disallow Michigan and Florida months ago. If she was the stronger candidate she would have won.

But I remembered there are seven stages of grief. Gov. Rendell along with many Hillary supporters are suffering. I listed the stages below. Hopefully, Gov. Rendell will reach stage 7 before the convention.

Shock or Disbelief
Denial
Bargaining
Guilt
Anger
Depression
Acceptance and Hope ( Hope!!!! Obama ’08)"; May 28, 2008 6:22 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Rendell: 'Very unlikely' Clinton will win
Posted: 05:35 PM ET

From CNN Associate Political Editor Rebecca Sinderbrand

Rendell is a powerful Clinton surrogate.
Rendell is a powerful Clinton surrogate.

(CNN) – Pennsylvania Gov. Ed Rendell – who has been one of New York Sen. Hillary Clinton’s biggest backers – said Wednesday that she would make a “far better candidate” than frontrunner Barack Obama in major swing states, but is “very unlikely” she will be the Democratic nominee this fall.

"I'm a realist, and I think most likely the superdelegates will give Sen. Obama the votes he needs," Rendell told Bloomberg Television Wednesday. "I don't think the DNC is going to fairly adjust what happened in Florida… So I think it's very unlikely that Senator Clinton can prevail. I think that means we're not going to field our strongest candidate."

Rendell again called for an Obama-Clinton ticket – assuming both candidates were in favor of the idea. The former Democratic National Committee chairman also laughed that he would make a great vice presidential pick for Obama: "I wear a flag pin, so [it would] be a balanced ticket," he joked.
________________________
________________________

RENDELL IS A JOKE! Obama will not consider him for VP. Redell has bashed Obama in the past too much and also Rendell has ties with Farrahkan - video on YouTube.com of Rendell praising Farrahkan.

OBAMA/Kathleen Sebelius '08; May 28, 2008 6:22 PM
Unknown said...: Mug -- Thank you for the sample of Republican slogans. I will cut&paste them, as I'm getting more and more repulsed by the repubs, and I want to keep something funny about them.; May 28, 2008 6:29 PM
Unknown said...: aunt Jean,

"Jacon that is about a foolish post.It's full of LIES. Jean"

Although I thought I wouldn't respond to your comments, but just this time, would you be a little more specific, rather than claim something you can't back!; May 28, 2008 6:37 PM
Unknown said...: Jean,
That's a well-constructed comment at 6:06, but it only states your opinions...
Although, I value your opinion, I would love some of your arguments to back those claims.

I am not saying that you don't have any, but since my opinion differs from yours, I would like to know which one of us is wrong and what I'm missing if I'm the one who's wrong.

(i.e. when you're saying that Clinton will do what you say she'll do, and Obama won't, what are you basing this on?)

Thanks; May 28, 2008 6:43 PM
jean said...: Re apissedant
The comment at 6:08 was funny.; May 28, 2008 6:49 PM
Unknown said...: stopOBAMAnow

Please, stop with the religion thing. Have you heard of the 1st amendment?

And if you think that one cannot do a good job based on his/her religion, then that's a bigot's thinking!

As for people who say that Obama is a Muslim, they may be either ignorant (because he's not!) or misinformed.
Either way, we shouldn't let them be, that's a republican job. That's why they always vote against any educational reform. They don't want their constituent base to ask questions or to really know what they stand for.

Now, it's different for us Democrats, we fight for the right to educate our kids, and send them to the best schools they can get in to (some may call that being elitist, I'm saying it's being American!).; May 28, 2008 6:50 PM
jpsedona said...: Bill Clinton in PR said: "And the party will have to decide whether they believe the caucuses -- where you get about one delegate for 2000 votes -- are more important than the primaries where you get one for 12,000,"

So, 6 times smore people came out for primaries than caucuse if we take Bill's numbers at face value.

Although it's not a completely legitimiate approach, if we were using the 6:1 ratio, and normalized the caucuses and primary popular vote by multipling all the caucuses by 6, how many popular votes ahead would Obama be?

He would certainly be up by more than a million...; May 28, 2008 6:52 PM
Unknown said...: Stop Obama Now.

"Vote for Experience: Either for Clinton or McCain to save America."

see how I didn't call you Yam this time, well maybe I will start calling Yam "Stop Obama Now" when he comes back :)

Really, I don't see how one who knows about Clinton/McCain differences would decide to vote for either one or the other but not for Obama.

I can see how McSame supporters wouldn't vote for Obama, but they wouldn't vote for CLinton either.

However, I don't see how someone who would vote for Clinton would also vote for McCain on the sole basis of Experience...

Experience of what?... of making every single decision that will go against their interests or beliefs, just under the pretense that they have experience!

Not flying!!!; May 28, 2008 7:01 PM
protactinium said...: Emit- "Obama's clearly has the BEST resume. I am in the position to hire and fire folks in my job. I make hiring decisions 3 to 4 times a year. I would hire Obama for any exec postion based on his past performance."

Of course you would. So would any other person that could higher him.

People that saw other wise are simply ignorant to buisness, or are lieing. There are actually quite a few CEO Obamas age or younger.

This site has become useless. The Hillary supports feel if they yell and cry loud enough they will win.

The polls show a huge amount of people in the middle that do not give a crap about blogs, and 24 hour news love them some Obama.

The question is why are they still on hear trying to smear Obama. There is only a couple answers, and most them are not flattering to saw the least.; May 28, 2008 7:06 PM
ed iglehart said...: The fish was this big! Honest!

;-)
ed; May 28, 2008 7:07 PM
jean said...: Re jason
I do not feel his service, can't think of the correct word, has not been, well, anything special.
The one thing I admire is the fantastic job of his marketing.
The job they have done will be in every text book in business.
His people have guarenteed a job for life almost anywhere.
There is no doubt he speaks well.
I almost feel that surveys are taken of what he should say and that is how things are decided.
The will of the people is fine but not all the decisions are fun.
I don't think at this time he will make those decisions that he doesn't like.
He has been so conservative in his actions while he was so liberal in his current term.
The drastic change makes me feel that that I am being played.
I don't like that feeling.
Please understand this is not an emotion. I feel I am being lied to.

jean; May 28, 2008 7:14 PM
protactinium said...: jean - "He has been so conservative in his actions while he was so liberal in his current term."

What the hell are you babbeling about?

Are you seriously trying to call him a conservative and a liberal in the same breath.

As for the lieing its funny you support the KNOWN LIAR, Hillary.

Polls show over 50% of Americans dont trust her. I am one of them. I personally hope never to see the name Clinton on any ballot ever again. They have showed everything but leadership skills.; May 28, 2008 7:19 PM
vwis said...: All,

Today, Clinton said "That is is leading in all the polls."

Last week, Terry McAuliffe said that the staff has to go around and hide all the newspapers from her. I suspect they print bogus ones for her to read; so that this statement above is correct.; May 28, 2008 7:22 PM
golfman8042 said...: Is everyone here going to vote for Obama at the appropriate time?; May 28, 2008 7:22 PM
Anonymous said...: stopOBAMAnow,

Why do you have a Japanese accent like Yam?

Why are your comments stupid in EXACTLY the same way as his?

How do you happen to come here just as Yam crawled back to his pagan little island to worship his stick of incense for a while?

Just wondering...

BTW welcome to the thread.

:); May 28, 2008 7:24 PM
protactinium said...: Scott Mcclellan's Book is a huge story. Looks like it will stick around for at least the next week possibly a lot more. It's going to be a November issue for Mccain.

The media is starting to hit Mccain, and the Republicans on a daily basis. People are started to get reminded why they are mad at the Republicans and moving to Obama.

That why their has been a surge in support of Obama in the last week or so.

I think we need to treat the Hillary trolls as the media treats her. Ignore them. ME included.; May 28, 2008 7:28 PM
vwis said...: Ed,

Still enjoying your links, however, I could have skipped the human cheese one and been better for it.; May 28, 2008 7:31 PM
jean said...: Re pro
He was the most liberal and now he "is not".
You said "What the hell are you talking about?"
Nice.
You have got to be the teacher in my daughter's Lab Bio who has declared her and all students the children of Liberals who let them walk all over society. After 3 months he still did not know her name.
His excuse was that he is under stress for his kitchen remodel.
have a great day; May 28, 2008 7:33 PM
vwis said...: Akamay,

I know your gone on vacation, but at least you could have said bye to me.

Last I knew they have the internet everywhere. Especially, Stanford and I believe it was, Yale. I also, don't know anyone in the medical profession that doesn't own a laptop. Times must be tough.; May 28, 2008 7:37 PM
apissedant said...: if it is Yam, he is consciously varying his speech pattern. He actually used facts, and real facts at that. I noticed much fewer spelling errors, and his comments were less retarded. He didn't even assault Obama in that last post, only said he wouldn't be elected and lacked experience. Improvement, he could become a politician yet.
Still retarded though, so he couldn't be a Democrat.; May 28, 2008 7:37 PM
protactinium said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; May 28, 2008 7:39 PM
vwis said...: Leah,

Can't wait until you announce that avalanche of SDs any day now. For real!

Your contributions always make sense. Although, sometimes I wonder if you get much sleep.; May 28, 2008 7:41 PM
stopOBAMAnow said...: Hello there:

Jason: Good to discuss with you.

I agree that religion should NOT be an issue.

But in real world nearly 30% of American Electorate worries about religion, character and "the company" the Nominee keeps up. In very close General Election, ALL this will matter, whether you like it or not.

Regarding Experience: Please jog your memory about 7.5 years back. There was a "Nice Guy" named W Bush came along from TX with tons of money. Although at that time he completed one term as the Gov of Texas, in practice, he was terribly inexperienced in Governing, because most of the work was done in TX by the Lt. Gov Bob Bullock, a Dem.

During the June-Nov 2000, Gore was the most experienced Candidate, very well knowledgeable in US Govt. But the media played down his experience and boosted the "Nice Guy" W. Bush. Money did all the leg work, exactly like what it does to Obama, who raises and spends lavishly during the Nomination Process, including "buying up" the SDs, the cash starved politicians.

Even though Gore won nearly 500,000 more Popular Vote, he lost the Election because of the US Supreme Court usurping the power from the FL Supreme Court.

Now think carefully what happened after W Bush's Election. Osama found out how weak, lazy and incompetent Bush was, and boom he sent his maniacal killers to steal our own planes and demolish our buildings - Twin Towers - and massacre 3000 our Americans. I definitely believe under Gore, Osama would never had the nerve to do anything like that, IMO.

Mind you, the Experience matters, and Money absolutely corrupts the process.

An eerie resemblance to Obama and W Bush. Both Moneymen ... both terribly inexperienced. What a terrible consequence in the last 7.5 years!

America is nervous and anxious, really.

Vote For Real Experience.

Stop Obama, the MoneyBag, Now; May 28, 2008 7:42 PM
protactinium said...: jean "Nice.
You have got to be the teacher in my daughter's Lab Bio who has declared her and all students the children of Liberals who let them walk all over society. After 3 months he still did not know her name.
His excuse was that he is under stress for his kitchen remodel.
have a great day"

Please keep your personal problems out of politics.

This is about real issues, and not your baggage.

I honestly had no idea about what you were babbling about. Seem you will say anything.

Ok last time I talk to the trolls I promise.; May 28, 2008 7:43 PM
Anonymous said...: Clearly Yam has switched over to stopOBAMAnow because he knows the RBC won't even come close to doing things the way he would like and he doesn't want to have to eat crow when we point this out.

Eating fish with the eyes still in them is more to his liking.

:); May 28, 2008 7:47 PM
jean said...: RE Pro
Have a fantastic day.; May 28, 2008 7:50 PM
vwis said...: StopObamaNow!

I've decided that Hillary should fight for FL and MI hard.

Then it will go to appeal on June 29 and be voted on at the convention in Aug. Meanwhile, Hillary can't join the Obama camp and ask him to forgive her debts. Her campaign debts will therefore go unpaid by August. The DNC rules state she has until August. The cost of this fight will be over 20 million to her. That seems fair.; May 28, 2008 7:54 PM
Unknown said...: Aunt Jean,

You're plagiarising here, you're taking some of Clinton's qualities and trying to make them as Obama's!???

"1.don't trust
2.he's a liar
3.unsavory friens and assocs.
4.thinks he's owed it with the media big help
5. talkeed about hillary like a dog just like the media has."

1 & 2. Well, yeah, you shouldn't trust an honest man, who has spoken his mind and lived by it.
Everything the repubs could find on Obama was what people he knows, or he might have associated with have said. They were never able to pinpoint any lie on him

While as Hillary, my god, I think if each one of us on this blog states one of her lies, we won't be able to cover all of them!!!

3. I'll give you that point. But I can't take it away from Clinton either!!!

4. CLinton is the one who always cries and whines about the media, because there is so much BS to cover on her, and so little about what Obama said or did, that they can't do otherwise.
WHen they had something on him (rev. Wright) it took them a month and a half to get over it.
So yeah, the media wouldn't let go of you if you think they're idiots. When you're caught left and right making stupid claims, don't expect them not to catch her on it.

5. That's Hillary's territory!
He's always been fair and classy to her. She hasn't been lately, especially not these past few weeks /months (i.e. when you do a Gaffe like the one about the assassination, and instead of apologizing, you blame your opponent on spreading it... wow, she's good!)

And then you whine about people not being civil to you guys!?

Stop the lying, the cheating, the changing rules, the blaming your faults on others,... and maybe people will stop treating you like crap!
I don't know, just a suggestion; May 28, 2008 7:58 PM
Unknown said...: apissedant

FUNNY!

I really meant: next to him; May 28, 2008 8:00 PM
Unknown said...: Jean,
Believe me, I wouldn't judge you on what you said (at 7:14 or so). I truly think you're entitled to your opinion, and I'm not saying you're wrong, because those are feelings, and I think we can't share the same feelings with others unless we share their (related) experiences.

As for your earlier comment on the UN. I think a lot of people share your view, but believe me the reason we're paying for the UN is because it's always been a US tool to reach out and legitimize our actions to/on other nations.
Now although, in the books it says that the US pays for the majority of it, it doesn't say that we have merely paid 30 to 40% of what we owe the UN (there have been issues in the past about us not paying our share).

Let's not forget, the UN has always played to our advantage until BUSH came in the picture, and decided that his Cowboy stance was righteous. What the rest of the world had to say didn't mean a thing, and then he dares talking about democracy...
We treated the French as if they were lepers because they suggested that we should wait until the UN inspectors came back with their verdict before we invade Iraq.
And what do you know? I guess they were right, because the only WMD found in there was Saddam smelling in a hole.

So, BUSH used all this charade to claim that the UN is obsolete.
And when he was proven wrong and he saw the extent of his mistakes and his absurdity, he dared to go back to the UN to ask for help from other countries.

Then, we wonder why other people hate us. We were once perceived as the leading/greatest nation on earth, and now we're looked down by most westerners and hated by others. I don't like it when I'm overseas and I'm treated badly for what BUSH has done. I don't think it's fair, but then again, I say we voted for him, well some majority did!; May 28, 2008 8:26 PM
Unknown said...: apissedant

I like your observation at 7:37; May 28, 2008 8:32 PM
greywolf said...: Jean and everyone else in here and all those other blogs that are bad mouthing Obama for running a much better campaign. deal with the fact people, only the facts then maybe you can see the truth.

Here is my contention about all of this.

First I am so fricken tired of all this candidate slamming and stuff goin on in the blogs.
Sure everyone wants their candidate to win. But unfortunately there must be a looser in every contest like this.
The question is will the one that does not win and that does not have a chance of winning take the high road or do they continue to sink to the lower and lower levels very day.
Here is all this thing about florida and Michigan is about.
FACTS: Every one in the RBC voted to sanction both states. Several of those that did so are part of Hillary's team
All candidates signed of on it as it was, made their plans as to how they were going to run their campaign.. ect.
Clinton camp had it in their head they would sweep the first super Tuesday and the subsequent races and have the nomination in March at the lates.
That plan did not work. They underestimated the American People, the causcus states, those so called unimportant red states and their competition Senator Obama
Senator Obama through great planning, leaving no state out of the race, handed the Clinton camp their butt. (another way of saying he kicked their ass).
How did he win, he won because they under planned, over estimated their name carry, and underestimated an unknow junior senator ability to appeal to the american public and his ability to organize a fantastic grass roots campaign where everyone became involved.
Is he the best candidate, that is debatable, but what is not debatable is that he soundly defeated them through his planning, organization and financial skills. As well as his ability to reach out to all people from all walks of life.
Forget the crap of the way the media spun it and broke us up into age, race, gender, socioeconomic and educational groups and then sliced it even further into smaller groups. Both candidates took a great share of each grouping depending on the state and how well the the name was known in that state. Some voted by race, some voted by gender; however, the endresults is one obtained the greater majority of states, delegates and now popular vote.
My problem is from the get go, I could understand Clintons problem with FL and MI, however never once did she mention those two states being disenfranchised or unfairly treated UNTIL SHE FELL BEHIND. That is disengenious, and pure political pandering. She could have cared less about FL and MI by her own words, when asked about those two states she stated "Both FL and MI violated party rules and their votes WILL NOT COUNT".
So lets be fair about this. If she was in Obamas current position right now, she would have had Obama, packed, wrapped up in a neat little package and back in his junior senatorial seat already. You can not deny this.
Obama is doing right now more than she would do if she was in his position. He has offedred compromise many time since feb, but her stand was exactly as voted or nothing, and she has maintained that stand ever since. So this is not about FL and MI being seated, this is all about her winning or finding a way to win. Nothing more or nothing less.

Her campaign has reached new levels of low, but branding Obama as unqualified to serve, not having passed the commander in cheif test, and taken every opportunity to drag his blunders through weeks of media mud and rediculious spin and twisting.
Every time Obama did the same to her, she either shed tears on national tv, compained about media biase in, screamed sexism, racism, and you name it. So lets really lay itall out on the table.
Bottom line she lost,bottom line she doesnt like to loose, and bottom line she could give a rats hinney about FL and MI if she was winning.

yes it is about having fl and mi seated, but in gods name people lets be fair and real about this. She lost, and she is a sore looser, they even said so on national tv and will now do everything she can to win even if it means stealing it, by hook, crook and lies. They clinton camp doesnt care... it is all about them. That everyone is the bottom line and hard cold truth about all of this. Either you can be honest with yourselves and accept it, or you can lie to your selves and blame OBAMA for running a better campaign. Just the facts people. Just the facts.; May 28, 2008 8:33 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Emit sorry to disappoint you but my brother is a republican and has always disliked Hillary . He hires in a year probable 30 to 40 people a year he said between the two he would never hire Obama because of the people he has been friends and close assocs. with so go figure. As far as experience you are wayyyyyyyyyyy off base comparing Obama to Hillary. She was fighting women's rights before obama got out of grade school. So pleaseeeee get real.Just goes to show how little you know about her. Jean; May 28, 2008 8:33 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Protactinium
you know that it's Obama's lies not Hillary's. You are so unbelievable just like most Obama supporters.

post@9:31am; May 28, 2008 8:40 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Peter
you need to look at my post last night with poll numbers. There is a link with them. Clinton and Obama win 16 sts..Obama wins 2 sts. with Hillary losing. Hillary wins 8 sts. with Obama losing.. You really do need to check it out LOL LOL LOL Jean; May 28, 2008 8:42 PM
Unknown said...: Can'tstopOBAMAnow,

"Obama, who raises and spends lavishly during the Nomination Process, including "buying up" the SDs, the cash starved politicians."

First, don't ever compare that illiterate fool to Obama, they have nothing in common. You're trying to compare a retard to the most eloquent speaker, and one of the smartest politicians we've had since JFK.

Second, the money came from two different sources. For Obama, it came in small donations from the PEOPLE. So, if anything, he's funded by the will of the people. That retard you're mentioning here got his money from Oil companies, which BTW got their money back a million fold.

Third, don't say he bought SD's. If you remember right, Clinton is the one who had a very large lead in SD's because of the name recognition she enjoyed thanks to her husband being a two-term president.
Now, she couldn't even hold to that lead b/c of all the lies and the gaffes she's told/made.

Fourth and foremost, it's because of McSame's and Clinton's so-called experience that we are in this mess! that our economy is where it is, that my dollars are not worth anything overseas... yeah I'm considered poor outside the US, and that the OPEC is enjoying the best years of their existence (yes much better than the 1973-74 prices!)

If that's experience talking, then I'm better-off with the lack of experience some are showing!; May 28, 2008 8:46 PM
jean said...: jason
I agree. The best part was when I went for a trip and I was asked if I was a Dem or Rep.
I did get two free cocktails on that one(I love Italy)
It is true that with the UN we have tried to pay our way but it is also expected.
We owe the UN and owe everyone else.
Where do those trillions of dollars go.
One thing that I find astonishing is the amount of hate on this blog.
I can truly say I do not use or experience that word. I work very hard to do that. Adults and especially those who are educated should do that. Truly dislike does come into play.
To expend that energy with no profitable results is amazing.
Thanks jason.
You are eloquent in your speech and respectful to others even if you disagree.
I know Obama will be there in november. I am a Dem.
I will make a point to be unbias.
The main reason to be bias is hateful comments that are so prevelant right now during this election.
No guarentees.
Do Obama supporters represent their candidate by their speech?; May 28, 2008 8:52 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Protactinium

What can I say most [and remember I said most] women are smarter than men [no insult guys meant]on some things like judging people. You really don't get women at allif you thinkwomen will go against what they feel very strongly about. If AA'sthink that Hillary is a racist they must be having a bad few months or either they are racist against whites [female] and yes they also can be racist!

That comment about the uneducated remark just shows your own lack of judgment. Hillary never and I repeat never said that she wanted Obama shot! Besides he's not worth the bullet or trouble you would have. Most AA'sor not that foolish they will vote for a democrat because republicans don't care about them.

Hillary does have a choose she can bring a law suit against the DNC I just wouldn't do it in Florida because we know that the republican courts want obama to win because McCain can beat him in the GE.

On the issue about this going to destroy Hillary and Bill that will never happen in a million years. [You are dreaming]I don't think Hillary is the better candidate I know she is and it has nothing to do with race or gender. One more thing I totally agree with Ms. Ferraro about Obama. Jean; May 28, 2008 8:57 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Hey Obama supporters how did you like that LIE about his uncle LOL LOL LOL LOL Jean; May 28, 2008 8:59 PM
Mike in Maryland said...: jean said...
I look at this as business.

Didn't the 'First MBA President' look on the Presidency and running the government 'as business'?

And where are we now?

Mike; May 28, 2008 9:02 PM
Mike in Maryland said...: Jean said...
I almost feel that surveys are taken of what he should say and that is how things are decided.

When Senator Obama spoke out against even thinking of a war in Iraq in October, 2002 (remember - he was then a senator in the Illinois state Senate, not yet a US Senator), did he consult the polls and decide to speak out?

I DON'T THINK SO!

So there goes your LIE about " ... surveys are taken of what he should say and that is how things are decided."

Mike; May 28, 2008 9:03 PM
jean said...: mike in maryland

That was in 2002.
I am talking about now.
I don't think he did well in the debates and I am very concerned he has not done any recently.
He is going to win.
He needs to put things to bed and give a strong showing. That is business.
And give me a break.
because of that business principles should not be followed.
Just to let you know freaks don't count.
jean; May 28, 2008 9:10 PM
vwis said...: Aunt Jean,

The best often don't win out. Look at PC vs Mac. Also, this has been a long tiring race for both candidates and misstatements are both parties. I don't believe that Hillary meant much by the RFK gaffe. I prefer to think she is thinking that he have something go wrong like a swiftboat ad and she will be waiting in the wings. However, she can suspend her campaign and still get the same result if that should happen. Since, she has decided to stay in the race she should demo the likely for the Dems at this point. She has already tested him. The things said by her today don't reflect that and that may sway some SDs.; May 28, 2008 9:12 PM
vwis said...: Aunt Jean,

I meant she shouldn't demo him. I'm tired.; May 28, 2008 9:14 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Jason yes obama has BOUGHT SD"s check and see how much money he has spent on them and then come back and say. You had better look again there was plenty of obama supporters there too.No we under estimated the media's part Obama didn't have a chance if it wasn't for them. If left Michigan out because he pulled his name remember.Like I said he didn't do it he didn't have that much power with the help of the media and his unsavory friens.[money backing I mean] you saying he got it from small donation hog wash. Tell some sucker not me. His compromise was splitting it 50-50 that's not a compromise that would be a steal.

If any person as reached a new low that is Obama all the bashing, sexism, and Obama bashing of Hillary has been there for months . I have to admit his just started real bad a couple of months ago. You can support obama I never will I don't like the man he has very little experience his wife is only proud of america now.Obama supporters need to learn to deal with the true facts about obama instead of living in la la land. Jean; May 28, 2008 9:16 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Regarding the people in America that are racist, bigoted, hateful, uneducated and ignorant it makes my stomach turn.

As long as we, as a people, sit back and do nothing about this shameful segment of our population America will never have full respect in the eyes of the world.

.; May 28, 2008 9:17 PM
Anonymous said...: If Obama really was a panderer who just followed the quick and easy path, he would have come out in favor of the gas tax holiday.; May 28, 2008 9:18 PM
KS Rose said...: I just wanted to post somewhere in public that what I believe happened with Rodriquez is that the Clinton's asked him to switch support and then switch back as 'evidence' that all these supers could swing back to her any minute now...; May 28, 2008 9:19 PM
Unknown said...: Aunt Jean, the KKK called and said that they can't meet at your place tonight

"Besides he's(Obama) not worth the bullet or trouble you would have. Most AA'sor not that foolish they will vote for a democrat because republicans don't care about them."

Well, that's a hateful thing to say! You sure you're not a KKK member?

"Hillary does have a choose she can bring a law suit against the DNC I just wouldn't do it in Florida because we know that the republican courts want obama to win because McCain can beat him in the GE."

I'm sure Hill would've done it already if she could, especially seeing how she's been reacting to her losing lately!
but to say that the Repubs would rather have Obama is really LAUGHABLE...

Is that why the repubs are attacking BO and ignoring her, because they think she's more of a threat?

that's funny!

"One more thing I totally agree with Ms. Ferraro about Obama. Jean"

Well, who cares what she has to say, even the media didn't spend more than a line or two on her ridiculous inflammatory comments.

Should it been Hillary, or Obama they would've spent days on it!

Aunt Jean, you're out of it aren't you?; May 28, 2008 9:20 PM
Aunt Jean said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; May 28, 2008 9:22 PM
Mike in Maryland said...: jean said...
mike in maryland

That was in 2002.

And that proves what? He took a stand that was VERY unpopular at the time. He had the integrity to stand up and voice an opinion that was not in the mainstream.

So since then, he just goes by the polls?

What kind of Kool-Ade are you drinking?

Mike; May 28, 2008 9:22 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Jason don't blame Clinton for the mess we are in that is all bush. Things were great when Clinton was in office and that is how he left it. so pleaseeeeeee don't say that because IT IS A LIE!!!!!!. Jean; May 28, 2008 9:23 PM
vwis said...: Jason,

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Aunt Jean's views I do not share, but I don't think that the last comment was necessary. Don't make personal attacks. I had thought you were above that, previously. Stick to the issues and winning in the GE.; May 28, 2008 9:27 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: There is no point of talking about Hillary any longer.

She has lost. She can not catch up in delegates.

Senator Obama has moved on to the General Election and so should we.

There are many other topics that are now relevant to discuss.

Who will Obama pick as VP?

Why shouldn't McCain win?

What states will Obama win?

What don't we know about McCain?

What don't we know about Cindy McCain?

What skeletons are hiding in the McCain attic?

What will the Obama girls name their new puppy that they will receive when they move into the White House?

What will Michelle Obama's agenda be as First Lady?

How many people are going to be stupid enough to vote McCain over Obama?

I am sure there are many more topics that will keep us busy, now that the nomination race is over!

OBAMA '08
.; May 28, 2008 9:27 PM
Meg said...: Leah:

Did you see Matt's posting on the Superdelegate Comments blog?

"And speaking of sticking to our standards, what happens when two equally reliable (in our eyes) sources give different results? We go with the more recent one. Keep this in mind, and check back in a couple of hours, as a prominent Democrat will be moving from one category to another...."

Who do you think he's talking about?

I liked responding to Yamaka. I miss him. He was delusional, but he wasn't mean.; May 28, 2008 9:34 PM
Aunt Jean said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; May 28, 2008 9:35 PM
Unknown said...: vwis
I agree, but when you get sucked in...
I decided couple days ago that I wouldn't respond to some, but then I forgot that there were two Jean's
and I mistakenly responded to the other one....

I don't think I can stand in when people take the "assassination" statements too lightly!!!

and I'm not saying that Hillary meant it, but I'm saying for those who are saying that:

"Obama is not worth the bullet..."

That's just not only misinterpreting what Hillary was saying, but rather calling for it!!!

And that's just wrong!
and in a later comment I realized my mistake and said I will not respond to that individual any longer; May 28, 2008 9:37 PM
jean said...: mike in maryland
he said he was not privy to the Senate intelligence records and said he does not know what he would of done.
He has said several things and as said" had wiggle room"
They are both against iraq and one used info that was not correct.
thank you bush.; May 28, 2008 9:37 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Jason no I'm not out of it but it sure seems like you are. I was not trying to put down AA's just telling it like I see it that's all nothing less or more. It's not my fault that all obama supporters think if you say anything about AA's besides they are great, wonderful, sweet, adorable people you are racist. As a matter of fact I do know a few that fits that is AA.I just happen to judge people on their skills or personality not the color of their skin. Jean; May 28, 2008 9:37 PM
RobH said...: Jean (from San Diego, I think):

You posted back @ 6:06 and said thanks for the discourse. You're welcome.

In your reply you said:

"There are going to be some cruel decisions that need to be made to get this country on track."

There's a great book out called "CommonWealth: Economics for a Crowded Planet" by Dr. Jeffrey Sachs. I highly recommend it. One of his major theses addresses worldwide poverty, and sort of takes the form of "to the degree any of us are left behind, we put all of us at greater risk."
By way of example, if Sub-Saharan Africa has unbridled population growth, and no hope for economic development, it is more likely to become a fertile ground for terrorism, which remains a threat to us, than it is to become friendly democratic.

In other words, for serenity in our future, it will always be a better investment to lift the entire world out of desperation, than to think we can solve our own problems and remain vaccinnated from the rest of the world's problems.

I thought of this when you wrote,
of cruel decisions, and "We go to help a nation and nation sends 100(maybe) and we send 1000's", and "
to get this country on track."

I'm not advocating that we be the World's Piggy Bank, but I think reality demands that we're staring down the barrel of some cruel decisions anyway, that are not likely to put this country back on the track as we've been used to it.

This, I hope, ties into my earlier argument regarding the estem with which our global partners view Obama, vs what appears to be a continuation of GWB.; May 28, 2008 9:40 PM
Aunt Jean said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; May 28, 2008 9:42 PM
vwis said...: Aunt Jean,

Here's what Kinney had to say:

"After watching Sen. Obama for more than a year, it’s clear that he offers an ability to lead and inspire that’s been sorely lacking in this country.

"Senator Obama will win our nomination, and will be our President.
It felt good to write that sentence."

Sounds to me like he takes his responsibility seriously.; May 28, 2008 9:44 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Jason Hillary never said that she wanted Obama assassinated that is Obama's supporters version. Also I never said that I wanted it to happen either no one deserves to be assassinated not even him.Not just because it's wrong but also some people isn't worth it.Don't take my words out of context which OS's are bad about doing. Jean; May 28, 2008 9:44 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Vwis who is Kinney? Who ever it is they are lacking in judgment department or either they had a blonde moment [no insult meant on blondes] jean; May 28, 2008 9:47 PM
Unknown said...: robh,
It's a great book, although some things were misstated in it, I can't remember what it was exactly... I would have to read it again.
Still, a great book, I would recommend it too:
Commonwealth: Economics for a Crowded Planet; May 28, 2008 9:47 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Emma said: "Who do you think he's talking about?"
____

Yep, I saw Matt's post and I responded to him. I told him that it was not nice that he did not give us a little clue!

I think it will be someone moving from Clinton to Obama.

One possible guess would be:

Ed Rendell

CNN had an article today that said that Rendell said that Hillary being the nominee would be 'very unlikely'

NOT Strickland - he was just on TV pushing the idea of HRC for pres.

Who do ya'll think the 'big' switch will be in a couple of hours ???; May 28, 2008 9:49 PM
RobH said...: Hey Everyone:

GREAT NEWS!

I recommend a visit to the thread called "FL/MI By the Numbers", and check out the five scenarios.

Of absolutely TERRIFIC news, is the outcome of the fact-finding on the disposition of the MI "uncommitted" supers, and how it radically, favorably sets the playing field for ALL proposals this weekend.

If you go to Scenario 5, (Yam's favorite, and everybody else's previously dismissable version), you will find in the subheading a note that says 22 of the 55 supers are known Obama endorsers. The number 22, is a hyperlink to another thread called "The Michigan 36".

Follow it, and read the overview, the methodology, and the comments,
particularly the fifth one down by tmess2, at 12:42 AM today.

The net is that we are within reach of an indisputable deal, including the one that removes HRC's last hope "seating FL & MI as is."

With understanding that we will have to figure out a way to penalize in the future to disincent the kinds of behaviors that made this process such a mess:

Imagine if the MI Dem Party, the FL Dem Party, the DNC and the Obama campaign, all endorse an agreement that essentially acquieses to HRC's demands - and he still wins? With no arguments left, what choice sill she have?

Happy reading everyone - I'm going to bed happy tonight.; May 28, 2008 9:54 PM
Unknown said...: Leah,
I don't think it would be either of them, although I'm still considering Strickland for VP.
I'm still investigating his pluses and minuses, but he would seem to be a good VP.

My first choice is still Sebelius (I hope I'm spelling her name right), not because she's a woman, but because of what she stands for, because she's a little bit more moderate, which would bring more republicans to vote for her...

I really don't think Webb, or Rendell should be in the ticket though.; May 28, 2008 9:54 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: I said: "NOT Strickland - he was just on TV pushing the idea of HRC for pres."
_____

Oops it was General Wesley Clark that is on TV... not Strickland.; May 28, 2008 9:54 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Emma -

Hillary is a SD - maybe she is going to concede tonight and then she will be in the Obama camp ;)

Could be Barbara Boxer - there are a bunch of SDs in California that are going to move over to Obama with the next week or so.; May 28, 2008 9:57 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: It might also be Gov. Paterson in New York.

He hasn't said anything positive about HRC in awhile.

.; May 28, 2008 9:58 PM
RobH said...: PS:

I shouldn't have said "removing HRC's last hope". I should have said "Satisfying HRC's last argument."

Sorry 'bout that.
It is damn good news.; May 28, 2008 9:59 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Ohhhhhhhhh -----

More than likely

Sen. Maria Cantwell (WA)

Cantwell is in the Pelosi club. She is currently a HRC supporter but she said she would vote for the person with the most pledged delegates!

.; May 28, 2008 10:00 PM
Mike in Maryland said...: jean said...
he [Senator Obama] said he was not privy to the Senate intelligence records and said he does not know what he would of done.

Citation of that quote, please. Link to the full information is appreciated, so that it can be considered in full context.

You may trust your memory of what was said, but memories can be incorrect (as witnessed by Senator Clinton's memory of having to run because of possible sniper fire?).

Mike; May 28, 2008 10:01 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Jason-

Emma and I are talking about what Matt said on the SD page.

There is a prominent Democratic that is going to announce switching their ENDORSEMENT !!!

-----

p.s. Rendell will NOT be a VP - he is on video praising Lewis Farrahkan at a dinner in honor of Farrahkan - so Rendell is not possible.

.; May 28, 2008 10:03 PM
Unknown said...: Leah,
Yeah, I saw!

And for Rendell, that's my point exactly.
And that's why I think he made his statement today... I think he knew that the VP thingy wasn't coming his way; May 28, 2008 10:06 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Matt said on the SD page:

".... and check back in a couple of hours, as a prominent Democrat will be moving from one category to another...."

May 28, 2008 9:04 PM
________________________

Come on everyone!
Who do ya'll think it might be?; May 28, 2008 10:07 PM
tmess2 said...: Thought I had posted my list

option 1 -- Big Name DPL (Gore or Carter)

option 2 -- big name DNC member (Donna Brazille?)

option 3 -- RBC defection (Don Fowler?)

option 4 -- big name Michigan/Florida (Carl Levin?)

option 5 -- Joe Biden; May 28, 2008 10:10 PM
suzihussein22 said...: I've read here and there that our voting is emotional and comments everywhere prove it and so does a study I saw a few months ago.

I do believe HRC would have won in FL even if there had been campaigning.

Mug-interesting point...I didn't really expect more than half-hearted campaigning against HRC.

elwood1977-Politics don't inspire me, my family, friends, and fellow Americans inspire me.

Jason-As a Christian, I agree with about the 1st Amendment.

ed iglehart-How about I love my campaign this much?:D LOL

I'm not ignoring your other link about the green line, I just still don't know enough about it to respond intelligently.

issue-environment-

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/6972504.stm

This would affect all of us, not just our friends across the pond.; May 28, 2008 10:12 PM
suzihussein22 said...: apissedant-There's one more post on the VP thread. I just had to do some more homework on somebody that's been mentioned. Thanks.; May 28, 2008 10:17 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Jason do you really think I care if you respond to me or not NOOOOOO! LOL LOL LOL LOL It just proves that my truth bothers you!!!Jean; May 28, 2008 10:20 PM
Emit R Detsaw said...: B ig name switching from Hillary to Obama. I'll play....

Bill Clinton

;o); May 28, 2008 10:35 PM
apissedant said...: Jason,
I hope you're having fun with these two. I'm enjoying watching you spin them up. Great analysis on VP possibilities too. Sebelius, from what little I know, looks outstanding. As you said, not because she's a woman, but that would be a huge plus at this point. As long as the Democrats come out and vote Democrat, I think we can lock up this election no problem.

Leah,
I think the switch SD will be Bill Clinton.

EVERYONE! Go to the Washington Post and look for an article on the mirage economy. It was a great analysis of our current situation. A bit depressing, but a great analysis none the less.; May 28, 2008 10:37 PM
Unknown said...: e r d

"Hillaryous"

As someone previously wrote.; May 28, 2008 10:38 PM
apissedant said...: softspoken,
SWEET!! I check that thread like fifty times a day. It is my favorite, but no one posts there anymore... you're an angel.; May 28, 2008 10:39 PM
suzihussein22 said...: too cute-

http://www.nbc.com/The_Tonight_Show_with_Jay_Leno/video/#mea=255279

This could probably be spun either way, but it's still out of the mouths of babes. :D; May 28, 2008 10:42 PM
Unknown said...: apissedant

I used to check that thread too, but I haven't been able to find the link now.
Did they move the link to the VP Thread?; May 28, 2008 10:45 PM
vwis said...: Emit,

You beat to Bill, however, I guessed that days ago. Second, is probably Rendell. I heard something he said earlier that I questioned. Leah and others have already picked him. So I'll say Mike Easley. Also, thought of Blanche Lincoln.; May 28, 2008 10:47 PM
apissedant said...: softspoken,
I just gave a lengthy response in VP thread.; May 28, 2008 10:50 PM
apissedant said...: jason,
No, it is just the link used to be new news, so it was on the top of the main page. Now it is old news, so the link is wwaaaaay down on the left hand side, where all news goes to die.; May 28, 2008 10:51 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: softspoken22-

That was a cute video with the kids. It reminded me of the old Art Linkletter show.

OBAMA/Kathleen Sebelius '08; May 28, 2008 10:54 PM
apissedant said...: Emit, you suck, I was too long winded and typed a bunch of other crap, so you beat me to Bill.

Softspoken, cute video, the campaign slogan was by far the best part. I'm stealing that when I eventually run for city dog catcher.; May 28, 2008 10:56 PM
Meg said...: Had to get off the computer for awhile . I think it's Al Gore. Or Jimmy Carter.; May 28, 2008 10:58 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Matt said the announcement has been CANCELED.

He said it was going to be Tom Foley moved to 'uncommitted' but it has been canceled so he is staying in the HRC column for the time being ;(

.; May 28, 2008 10:58 PM
Emit R Detsaw said...: Aunt Jean, got a serious question for you....

What is "hicking"?

Whatever it is you and 224 other bloggers have it listed as one of your interests.; May 28, 2008 11:00 PM
Hippolytus said...: tmess2 said:
His VP list includes
"option 4 -- big name Michigan/Florida (Carl Levin?)"
_______________

Carl Levin? Talk about rewarding bad behavior! He's largely behind the mess in Michigan.; May 28, 2008 11:00 PM
Kujo said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; May 28, 2008 11:00 PM
vwis said...: Leah,

Another guess, Terry McAuliffe.; May 28, 2008 11:01 PM
Mike in Maryland said...: OK, still no announcement on who will 'be moving from one category to another.', but

That post was made at 9:04 PM. Two hours would make it 11:00 PM Eastern Time, but 8:00 PM Pacific, 6:00 Hawaiian.

That would lead me to believe it is a California endorsement, or maybe Nevada.

My guess is Pelosi, with a much smaller probability of it being Reid.

Mike; May 28, 2008 11:02 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: SUPER DELEGATE SWITCH ANNOUNCEMENT HAS BEEN CANCELED.

Matt said the announcement has been CANCELED.

He said it was going to be TOM FOLEY moved to 'uncommitted' but there is not enough evidence yet, so he is staying in the HRC column for the time being ;(; May 28, 2008 11:03 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Emit I need to change that is funny not on you but on myself. Isn't it great to be able to laugh at yourself.Thanks for drawing it to my attn. It was real late when I did it. Jean; May 28, 2008 11:07 PM
Mike in Maryland said...: I didn't see Leah's post of 10:58 until after I posted my 'Pelosi or maybe Reid' comment.

However, I DID get the general area of the country where the announcement was coming from, for the right reason (time zone)!!

Mike; May 28, 2008 11:07 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Emit you need to go there and check again. I added some things. Even asked a question.Jean; May 28, 2008 11:16 PM
vwis said...: Leah,

A little fun while it lasted. I guess its good night for me.; May 28, 2008 11:18 PM
suzihussein22 said...: leah t4O-Yeah, me too. They say the darndest things. Bill Cosby did spots with kids, too.

apissedant-I read and responded. I just keep scrolling down until I find the link on the left.; May 28, 2008 11:18 PM
Kujo said...: Number Projections. In listening to the DNC lawyers today, we can now see what the Rules Committe may come up with. There is a good chance that many of the members on the rules committee do not want to do something that creates a controversy, they also want to somehow include Florida and Michigan. Following the advice of the DNC lawyers would be a way they could accomplish both.

Here are some projections:

There are currently 30 unassigned Super delegates in states that followed the rules. If they split by who won the state, 19 would go for Obama and 11 for Clinton.

In looking at best case possiblity for Clinton in the remaining 3 contest, we could give her a 50 - 36 edge in the pledge delegates.

If the rules committe leaves FL and MI the same:

Obama 1980 + 19 + 36 = 2035
Clinton 1780 + 11 + 50 = 1841

This gives Obama 10 more delegates then needed (with plenty of SD's yet to announce).

Now if we look at Florida and Michigan and Clinton what she wants, count the vote as is. Then apply the DNC lawyer 1/2 penality (they say they must apply at least a 1/2 penalty for FL and MI.) The DNC lawyers also stated that the Unassigned Delegates from FL and MI should be diveded up to the 4 candidates who were not on the ballot. Since the others now support Obama, we can give him these delegates.

MI FL
Obama 27.5 36.5 62
Clinton 34.5 52.5 82

Plus we have SD's for Obama 10/2
Plus we have SD's for Clinton 15/2

Obama 2035 + 62 + 5 = 2102
Clinton 1841 + 89 + 7.5 = 1937.5

New numbers would be 2117 leaving Obama 15 short. There would be 194.5 SD's who have not choosen plus Edwards delegates who have not publicly made a change.)

I love the CNN headline for all those who think CNN is all for Obama.

"Sources: Dem's delegate deal could boost Clinton"

Boost, I hate to think this is a boost. If you consider the Pelosi club, its still over.; May 28, 2008 11:19 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Vwis good night and sweet dreams of Hillary LOL. Jean; May 28, 2008 11:19 PM
tmess2 said...: hipplytus -- option 4 was on the list of possible big announcements about superdelegate switch -- none of the people I put on that list were VP candidates (at least I hope not).; May 28, 2008 11:20 PM
Emit R Detsaw said...: Well, I can answer that question Aunt Jean, but you may not want me to.

I was trying to copy your post on the Super Delegate page and accidentally clicked on your name.

I was going to copy the one where you thought it was rude to talk about who should be the VP choice. Think you were on the wrong blog page. You assumed that you had to talk about who you would choose for Obama's VP in the VP Blog pages. Just another case of you jumping the gun. You could go to the VP discussion page and state who you think would make a good VP for Clinton. I haven't been there for a few days, but I remember there was at least one poster that did that.; May 28, 2008 11:23 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Emit I know where I was at and did you read the my post as to why. Jean; May 28, 2008 11:30 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Emit I have nothing to hind about myself anyone can ask me a question and I will try and answer it [except my address and email of course] I wouldn't want any threating letters haha. Jean; May 28, 2008 11:33 PM
Kujo said...: Number Projections. In listening to the DNC lawyers today, we can now see what the Rules Committe may come up with. There is a good chance that many of the members on the rules committee do not want to do something that creates a controversy, they also want to somehow include Florida and Michigan. Following the advice of the DNC lawyers would be a way they could accomplish both.

Here are some projections:

There are currently 30 unassigned Super delegates in states that followed the rules. If they split by who won the state, 19 would go for Obama and 11 for Clinton.

In looking at best case possiblity for Clinton in the remaining 3 contest, we could give her a 50 - 36 edge in the pledge delegates.

If the rules committe leaves FL and MI the same:

Obama 1980 + 19 + 36 = 2035
Clinton 1780 + 11 + 50 = 1841

This gives Obama 10 more delegates then needed (with plenty of SD's yet to announce).

Now if we look at Florida and Michigan and Clinton what she wants, count the vote as is. Then apply the DNC lawyer 1/2 penality (they say they must apply at least a 1/2 penalty for FL and MI.) The DNC lawyers also stated that the Unassigned Delegates from FL and MI should be diveded up to the 4 candidates who were not on the ballot. Since the others now support Obama, we can give him these delegates.

MI FL
Obama 27.5 36.5 62
Clinton 34.5 52.5 82

Plus we have SD's for Obama 10/2
Plus we have SD's for Clinton 15/2

Obama 2035 + 62 + 5 = 2102
Clinton 1841 + 89 + 7.5 = 1937.5

New numbers would be 2117 leaving Obama 15 short. There would be 194.5 SD's who have not choosen plus Edwards delegates who have not publicly made a change.)

I love the CNN headline for all those who think CNN is all for Obama.

"Sources: Dem's delegate deal could boost Clinton"

Boost, I hate to think this is a boost. If you consider the Pelosi club, its still over.; May 28, 2008 11:35 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Kujo I think the DNC lawyers are full of it that is total BS. Jean; May 28, 2008 11:41 PM
Emit R Detsaw said...: MORE Electability:

1)More Pledged Delegates
2)More Super Delegates
3)More Governors
4)More Senators
5)More Representations
6)More Democratic National Committee Members
7)More Add-Ons
8)More Donors
9)More $$ raised
10)More $$ pumped into the US Economy
11)More $$ on hand

And More………

Obama ‘08; May 28, 2008 11:42 PM
Aunt Jean said...: emit you are so full of BS that it's funny LOL LOL LOL LOL Like alittle boy with a new toy. Jean; May 28, 2008 11:46 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: He who asks is a fool for five minutes, but he who does not ask remains a fool forever. Chinese proverb

Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance
Confucius

Ignorance is a voluntary misfortune Nicholas Ling

It is impossible to defeat an ignorant man in an argument William G. McAdoo

Minds are like parachutes-they only function when they are open
Thomas Dewar

.; May 28, 2008 11:47 PM
Hippolytus said...: tmess2:
"My bad" (thank goodness)!
Thanks for setting me straight.; May 28, 2008 11:48 PM
Emit R Detsaw said...: Aunt Jean, I am civil towards you and yet you constantly violate the rules. Remember what it says at the top of the page.

"And please be excellent to one another. We do not accept name calling or any attacks on our commenters. Any objectionable comments will be deleted. Try to be civil."

;o); May 28, 2008 11:49 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Emit R Detsaw-

There is only one category that Obama has a lower number than Hillary...

Number of delegates needed to win the democratic nomination:

OBAMA 45
Clinton 245

OBAMA/Sebelius '08; May 28, 2008 11:54 PM
Hippolytus said...: Does anyone have a link to the 38-page report from the DNC attorneys? I'd like to read it for myself. Thanks.; May 28, 2008 11:54 PM
Hippolytus said...: Leah Texas4Obama:
Add to your quotes:
"My mind's made up; don't confuse me with the facts."
Anonymous; May 28, 2008 11:57 PM
Emit R Detsaw said...: Actually Leah, he currently trails in Democrat Party Leaders 9 to 6, but there are still 4 that could swing that category his way too.

;o); May 28, 2008 11:57 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; May 28, 2008 11:59 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Hippolytus-

WAIT!

Go to the front page of this website

http://demconwatch.blogspot.com/

and go down to the second article:

DNC Lawyers: Can't fully seat FL and MI

and in that article there are links for the report and in PDF .; May 29, 2008 12:02 AM
Hippolytus said...: emit,
I like your thought process. It will be interesting (to say the least) to see how this mess plays out. I do think that the memo from the DNC lawyers is going to be the starting point, if not the framework, for the resolution of this thing. I have to believe that the party elders (or the remaining superdelegates) will bring this to a prompt close, even if the Clintons persist in holding their breaths like 2-year olds.; May 29, 2008 12:03 AM
Aunt Jean said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; May 29, 2008 12:04 AM
stopOBAMAnow said...: Hello There:

Nice reading all your posts.

It's still funny many of you confuse me for Yam, who is on vacation.

Yam is the right person for you all to go toe to toe to expose your ignorance and arrogance!lol

Ya, I miss him too. Yam, where ever you are, come back soon and take care of these Obamaniacs!
_______________________________
Coming back to ObaBush - yes, I call Sen Obama, ObaBush for his similar inexperience and the money power he has.

No one talked about Sen ObaBush's Speech at Wesleyan. I was puzzled to hear his "collectivism": is he moving slowly into communism? Is collectivism the current code word for it? I know he has socialistic thread on his mind - yes an acute form of socialism is after all communism!

Hello, America worships the God of Capitalism, and not Communism! Wake up!!

Granted, after Columbia the good Senator was doing "community service", when he was propping up his street credibility as a "Black" activist. Then he went to Harvard, wrote two books and minted about 4 million dollars, became IL legislator, bought expensive $1.65 million dollar Mansion, and live now like a Prince. A true capitalist!

Then, why did he ridicule the "money culture"? Is this NOT what HE is practicing all day everyday?

He has raised nearly $300 million dollars, presumably from "small" donors (which many Americans have serious doubts) and is buying his Nomination with it! He is pulling SDs like plucking bananas!!

Curiously, Sen ObaBush did not mention about hard thinking, hard working and risk taking - the traditional American pathway to success - nor did he mention about service to US Military.

His "Wellesleyan" (yes, he confused Wesleyan with Wellesley for sometime) address underscored the hypocrisy and demagogy that he practices every day!

_________________________

Jason:

On education in US: We spend on per capita basis lot more money than any other country; but mostly our primary and secondary school education stinks, partly because of the poor teachers we have. Most of them sleep on their wheels!

Most of these teachers belong to the Left Liberal Wing of the Democratic Party! They systematically ruin our kids, and no one is doing anything about it.

Liberal icons like Ted Kennedy, Kerry and now ObaBush are all in the back pockets of these Teachers Union!

_______________________

dave nc:

I don't get it why you slam me for Yam?

Plus, Yam is not a Japanese either!

He said Yamaka is his Pen Name!

Why do you have so much love for Japanese, any way? :-(

_____________________________-

Fellow Americans:

Our country faces very serious problems: Fast deteriorating economy, the Iraq War and the National Security.

If we elect McCain our National Security will be safe.

If we nominate & elect Sen Clinton, the economy will be turned around, and the War will be over very soon.

If we elect Sen ObaBush, we will have neither. But,

most probably, Osama will hit California and/or Illinois!

Stop ObaBush Now.; May 29, 2008 12:05 AM
Aunt Jean said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; May 29, 2008 12:07 AM
Hippolytus said...: Thanks, Leah. Don't know how I missed the PDF, since I've looked at the DCW article many times!; May 29, 2008 12:07 AM
Aunt Jean said...: Aunt Jean said...
Emit I wasn't trying to insult you if I did I do apologize but just when I read all the more's some are BS matter of fact several.I remembered something but it was a funny [happy] memory. Jean; May 29, 2008 12:08 AM
Oregon Dem said...: Yam said:

Dear Democrats:

I will be traveling for a couple of weeks:

Going to visit my daughter at Cornell U for a week, then to Stanford U for another week!

A coast to coast travel to burn some money!

Please be kind to Hillary Supporters, who are a few in number at this site!

Learn to be broad minded, and open to criticism if you are all adults!

Great Days Ahead of US.

Bye, for now. See you in two weeks!

= = = = =

Interesting - Cornell is no longer in session according to their website....

and according to Stanford's website finals week is June 6-11.
If I showed up at one of my daughters (I have three) college during exam week they woulda not let me in their room!; May 29, 2008 12:10 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: stopOBAMAnow/Yakama-

You are not fooling me.

I can tell it is you by the way you are structuring your paragraphs and sentences.

If you had wanted to disguise yourself then you should have adopting a different writing style.

OBAMA '08; May 29, 2008 12:11 AM

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