Democratic Convention Watch: Open Thread

Tuesday, April 01, 2008

Open Thread

WE'VE MOVED! Democratic Convention Watch is now at http://www.DemocraticConventionWatch.com

Who's going to win, who has a better chance against McCain, or whatever else is on your mind.

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4317 comments:

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Gator said...: HUH; May 23, 2008 8:07 PM
Obamaniac said...: I appreciate the thoughtfulness of tmess2's opinion, which is clearly well informed, but I think Obama is closer--10 delegates from 2026 with current totals + Pelosi club + 40 from PR/MT/SD. As for the addition of MI/FL, whatever the DNC does, they won't reward the rule-breakers by giving them "deciders" status (I apologize for using a Bushism!) If they're seated, I think the new math will put Obama <50 delegates from the nomination, a deficit likely to be cut by 50-75% between now and the last primaries.
On another topic, the uproar over HRC's reference to RFK misses the point as far as I'm concerned. It was a tactless remark made by someone who will say or do anything to gain a political advantage with no thought given to who might be hurt or offended. It is suggestive of narcissism and calls attention to the fact that despite her silly attempts to convert a Wellesley -Yale-corporate lawyer background into Jane Lunchpail, HRC is an elitist with not the slightest notion of what it really means to live paycheck to paycheck. If she'd like some lessons on struggling to achieve, she might give Michelle Obama a call. There's a woman who's had to jump over some significant hurdles on her way to success.; May 23, 2008 8:21 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Obamaniac -

As I have said many times on this thread, I believe that Gov. Ed Rendell WILL NOT be on the short list for V.P.

There is a video on YouTube of Rendell at a dinner honoring Lewis Farrahkan and Rendell is on the video PRAISING Farrakhan.

The Republicans would use this to bring Obama down. Obama can not pick Rendell.

H
Obama '08
P
E; May 23, 2008 8:27 PM
Yamaka said...: Folks:

If you still spin on what Hillary said, then you suffer from clinical paranoid hallucination. What does this mean?

If some one shows a rope, you will say it is a live snake!

If some on shows an orange board, then you will scream fire!

Just lay off. Get a life !!

Hillary and her followers wish a long productive healthy life to Sen Obama and his family.

Will you all pray for the health and well being of Hillary, Chelsea and Bill Clinton?

Leave politics aside and be Americans for a few minutes at least.

Don't try to rob any burning house!!

:-); May 23, 2008 8:38 PM
RobH said...: Yams said:

"Get a life!"

Huh????; May 23, 2008 8:40 PM
Unknown said...: Yamaka: You keep our batteries charged. Thanks.; May 23, 2008 8:52 PM
Emit R Detsaw said...: Well said Keith Olberman!; May 23, 2008 9:00 PM
Independent Voter said...: DAMN!!!!!!! I LOVE KEITH OLBERMAN! He was on FIRE!!!!!!!

WOW!!!!!!

That was "special comment" number 2 for the Hill.; May 23, 2008 9:01 PM
Unknown said...: RFK Assassination Gaffe Mystery Solved?
5/23/08, 8:14 pm EST

I’m coming to the conclusion that maybe this RFK thing isn’t quite as venal as it appeared at first glance.

Clinton first trotted out this line on March 6:

TIME: Can you envision a point at which–if the race stays this close–Democratic Party elders would step in and say, “This is now hurting the party and whoever will be the nominee in the fall”?

CLINTON: No, I really can’t. I think people have short memories. Primary contests used to last a lot longer. We all remember the great tragedy of Bobby Kennedy being assassinated in June in L.A. My husband didn’t wrap up the nomination in 1992 until June. Having a primary contest go through June is nothing particularly unusual.

That was one day after Jeffrey Toobin made the same point on Larry King on March 5:

L. KING: Jeffrey Toobin, it is a ding dong race, isn’t it?

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: You know, there’s never been a political race anything like this in any of our lifetimes. Yes, many races have gone on longer. In fact, most political primaries have gone on longer. They often been resolved in June with the California primary, whether Bill Clinton in ‘92 or George McGovern in ‘72 or the — in 1968, of course, was when Robert Kennedy was assassination in June, at the end of the California primary.

Looking at this as generously as possible (Why? Because she’s not this stupid.) it seems at least plausible that she found herself watching Larry King one night a couple of months ago. She regurgitated Toobin’s friendly analysis the next day in an interview with Time, and then had the same nugget burble to the surface today in South Dakota.

Not that it mitigates the impact, but it’s certainly more plausible than the “I’ve been thinking about Teddy” excuse.

Tim Dickinson
Comments (0)Link to this E-Mail; May 23, 2008 9:02 PM
Mike in Maryland said...: Just a quick review of the unpledged SDs, and those I think will eventually endorse Senator Obama:

(I will only list those who I am fairly certain will endorse - many I don't know much about, and therefore will not list below).

Representatives
Nancy Pelosi (CA)
Mark Udall (CO)
John Salazar (CO)
Rahm Emanuel (IL)
Dennis Moore (KS)
William Jefferson (LA)
Chris Van Hollen (MD)
Rep. Tom Udall (NM)
Rep. Dennis Kucinich (OH)
John Spratt (SC)
Rep. Jim Clyburn (SC)
Jim Matheson (UT)
Total: 12

Distinguished Party Leaders
Jimmy Carter (GA)
Al Gore (TN)
Total: 2

Senators
Ken Salazar (CO)
Joe Biden (DE)
Max Baucus (MT)
Jon Tester (MT)
Ron Wyden (OR)
Jim Webb (VA)
Herb Kohl (WI)
Cantwell (Pelosi club)
Total: 8

Governors
Bill Ritter (CO)
Brian Schweitzer (MT)
Total: 2

Add-Ons TBD (listed only by state)
Alaska (1 of 1)
Georgia (2 of 2)
Wyoming (1 of 1)
Hawaii (1 of 1)
Maine (1 of 1)
Minnesota (2 of 2)
Texas (1 of 3)
Vermont (1 of 1)
Montana (1 of 1)
Wisconsin (1 of 1)
Idaho (1 of 1)
Virginia (1 of 1)
Washington (2 of 2)
North Carolina (2 of 2)
Oregon (1 of 1)
South Dakota (1 of 1)
Total: 20

DNC
Christine Pelosi (CA) (Pelosi club)
Margarett Campbell (MT)
Boyd Richie (TX) (Pelosi club)
Denise Johnson (TX) (Pelosi club)
Total: 4

Grand Total: 48

Of the total 238 SDs (including Michigan and Florida) who have not yet endorsed, that leaves 190 that I have not listed above.

I have given a list. Now can a certain Yammering faction give their list of how the chips may fall? That certain Yammering faction's latest fantasy says Senator Clinton will get 183 of the SDs. Who will they be?

Who will they be, Yamakamikaze?

Mike; May 23, 2008 9:04 PM
Richard said...: That was a most excellent and appropriate response from Keith Olberman. I'm more than fed up with Clinton, and I think this time she just went several steps too far.; May 23, 2008 9:07 PM
rkw said...: HRC got KO'd.; May 23, 2008 9:18 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Wooohoooo - Olberman was awesome tonight!

I guess it should be up on YouTube.com in a couple hours from now too.

Olberman for Press Secretary!

OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA ;); May 23, 2008 9:19 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Olberman sure did have quite a LONG laundry list of items that Hillary has gotten away with in the past.

She can't sweep this one under the rug and get away with it - NOT THIS TIME!; May 23, 2008 9:21 PM
billyjay66 said...: Jessica

re Bobby kennedy

here is is another totally different Kennedy reference. forget exactly when.

Early in the race late Jan- early Feb maybe "You know some people are comparing Obama to JFK.....and when he was assassinated LBJ carried on his programs" The connection in her mind of a charismatic figure and assassination definitely was there.

Now to defend her just a little.....candidates have thousands of canned phrases they can repeat in their sleep. By repeating the Kennedy-California-assassination blurp again I'm sure she did not realize the dynamite of the context "staying in the race because" this time.

And another "defense" although she is past defending...Bosnia sniper fire..... It is possible that pilots or handlers put some bug of possible caution in her ear the she combined to fabricate her version of the truth.....again....and again!!; May 23, 2008 9:27 PM
GrantWoods said...: Obama was raked over the coals for weeks when he made his less than artful comment about the bitter rural Pennsylvanian that clings to guns and religion.

We are supposed to just ignore Sen. Clinton's "ASSassination" comment?

If Obama had made this gaffe, I can only imagine the outrage from the "Majority".

I am sad.; May 23, 2008 9:34 PM
billyjay66 said...: leah special comment

I caught the special comment on my DVR. Two things ....can you believe we heard the sound of a shot fired while he was talking??? Keith winced visibly!!! Hope we get an explanation! Second, what a laundry list of campaign mistakes!!!! Great job. I was waiting for him to slip in "He's not a Muslim.... as far as I know"

My DVR cut the last 10 sec off......Did he finish with "Sen Clinton please withdraw now??; May 23, 2008 9:38 PM
Yamaka said...: Dear BHO Supporters:

News Flash....Potential .....

Game Changer:

I got this from another Blog - "It seems someone from BHO's campaign approached Alexis Herman with a VP Offer in return for a favorable outcome in the RBC Meeting.

Fed has secretly recorded the conversation."

If this is true, I don't know if it is, this would explode in the MSM very soon.

Stay tuned.

OMG: This is indeed a very big Bribery Attempt in recent memory.

___________________________________

RodentinMD:

My response is any SD anytime can change their vote before the Convention.

There will be many July/Aug Surprises against the least vetted, least experienced and the riskiest Minority Candidate!

Wait till the Convention, before you open the Champagne! Keep it in the cooler till end of Aug, 2008.; May 23, 2008 9:42 PM
November Politics said...: That sounds completely untrue, even with an unfavorable seating of FL/MI, Obama would still win the nomination. There is no need for the campaign to try something like that this late in the process.; May 23, 2008 9:57 PM
jethrock said...: Oooops... I posted this on the SD Thread, this is where I meant to post:

Obama is going to be the nominee (todays events clarify that multiplied on top of the math.)

So wht do you guys think of Tim Roemer as his vp pick?

Everybody keeps looking at more well known names... but what are some of your picks that might be a little more obscure.

Me... I'm looking at Tim Roemer... Look him up on Wiki.; May 23, 2008 10:01 PM
Yamaka said...: "Wooohoooo - Olberman was awesome tonight!"

Olber is as good a comedian/lunatic as Rush, one is FAR Left and the other FAR RIGHT.

I hate and avoid both of them!

I am a Centrist, a moderate!

Moderates Rule America.

:-); May 23, 2008 10:01 PM
khassani said...: jethrock,

Isn't he pro-life? I'm not sure if that'll be a good thing given that a lot of Democratic woman are going to be pissed b/c Clinton lost.; May 23, 2008 10:03 PM
Mike in Maryland said...: Yammering Yamakamikaze,

I'll help you start your list.

Representatives
Bud Cramer (AL)
Charlie Melancon (LA)
Don Cazayoux (LA)
Steny Hoyer (MD)
Gene Taylor (MS)
Rep. Travis Childers (MS)
Marcia Kaptur (OH)
Rep. Dan Boren (OK)
Nick Lampson (TX)
Alan Mollohan (WV)
Total: 10

Distinguished Party Leaders

Total: ZERO

Senators
Mary Landrieu (LA)
Jack Reed (RI)
Total: 2

Governors
Steve Beshear (KY)
Phil Bredeson (TN)
Joe Manchin (WV)

Add-Ons
Kentucky
West Virginia
Rhode Island
Indiana
Nebraska

Total: 5

DNC Members
(I can't identify them, please enlighten us)

Grand Total: 19

Can you let us know who the additional 164 SDs might be who will give her the 190 YOU say she needs?

If not, you really do need to shut your pie-hole.

If you can't even START to provide evidence of your position, you just validate the opinion of most people here - Either you are a republican here to stir the pot, or you are delusional and divorced from reality.

Now put up, or shut up.

Mike; May 23, 2008 10:07 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: billyjay66-

I am not sure what the exact words were in the last 10 seconds. After the end I was jumping up and down and clapping and yelling!

There should be a video of it on YouTube.com later you might want to check there, if no one else answers your question here on the thread.

______

To Yakama - give it a rest ;); May 23, 2008 10:09 PM
jethrock said...: He is pro-life... and I disagree with him there.

But he is democratic and willing to work with people. The rest of his positions and record I think would be strong for the general.; May 23, 2008 10:09 PM
Meg said...: I was really hoping that enough SD's would show their colors before May 31, making the Rules and By Laws meeting somewhat moot. Why haven't they? What are they waiting for?

Countdown tonight was awesome !!! During the 2 weeks of Rev. Wright video looping, I knew it was only a matter of time before the media sank its teeth into McCain or Hillary.

By the way, Leah.... What happened to Aunt Jean? LOL, LOL, LOL, LOL LOL, ad nausem; May 23, 2008 10:10 PM
jethrock said...: khassani--

Sorry I didn't address you in my previous post... but it was attributed to you.

best--j; May 23, 2008 10:16 PM
billyjay66 said...: Yamaka

Telling us to:

"Just lay off. Get a life !!"

"Leave politics aside and be Americans for a few minutes at least."

Write down this date we all heard it from "Yamaka". Pot calling who black ....telling US to lay off.; May 23, 2008 10:19 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Here is the VIDEO:

Olberman: Special Comment On Hillary's Assassination Remark

http://youtube.com/watch?v=nyf811vluHg

It's the whole comment from start to finish.; May 23, 2008 10:21 PM
rkw said...: What are they waiting for?

1) Up to now they were giving HR room - trying to neither anger or embarrass her.
2) Everyone running for office in a difficult election would rather not be perceived by HRC supporters as against her. They want votes come November.
3) They want to create a situation where a popular vote puts BO over the top. Absent that, they would probably like to make sure everyone votes before supers decide the nomination. The story line will convey more credibility than to have party insiders put him over before people finish voting.; May 23, 2008 10:22 PM
Yamaka said...: RodentinMD:

This is my view of the world. I like the big picture - This is what I expect to happen:

1. Your Manchurian Candidate is leading in delegates, and Hillary is leading in Popular Votes now.

2. By June 4th I believe she will be leading in PV by about 150 K at least.

3. She has to just keep quiet; she need not pick up any phone call from any body. Because, by virtue of a leader in PV, she is the legitimate Majority Candidate.

4. I want her to go to the Convention and present her case:
That she is the Majority Candidate and has more experience and she deserve the Nomination.

She will be Nominated because of the broader and deeper she enjoys in Country: Most of Latinos, most of women, working, and older Americans, constituting 55% (This does not show up in the delegates because of the quirky Caucuses, where many of her supporters did not participate for their cumbersome nature)

5. If the SDs don't buy her argument, she has to just walk out w/o shaking hands of anyone, as Ted Kennedy did to Carter in 1980.

6. Let the Manchurian Candidate go to GE to meet his Waterloo alone against the vastly experienced McCain.

7. I want her to fire up her base Constituency and come back in 2012 to recapture the WH in a big way.

How do you like this, Rodent?

Wait, the Game Changer, can be the Bribery Attempt on Alexis Herman!

:-(; May 23, 2008 10:29 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Yakama -

It is time for you to have a glass of wine and relax then call a doctor in the morning.

It is over.

Eventually you will accept it and then you can move on.; May 23, 2008 10:33 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Hey everyone-

The lie that Yamaka is only a lie.

If you Google 'Alexis Herman bribe' there are articles that come up BUT they are articles about Herman being INVESTIGATED in the past! Now why on earth would Obama's team offer Herman the V.P. spot when Herman is NOT V.P. material. Yakama has only posted someone else's smear - it ain't going to work!

YAKAMA - GO AWAY! Everyone on this thread thinks you are delusional.

DON'T POST YOUR LIES AND PROPAGANDA HERE.; May 23, 2008 10:38 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Here is the VIDEO:

Olberman: Special Comment On Hillary's Assassination Remark

http://youtube.com/watch?v=nyf811vluHg

It's the whole comment from start to finish.

.; May 23, 2008 10:40 PM
Mike in Maryland said...: Yammering Yamakamikaze,

Names?

You can provide none?

You've finally put the final nail in the coffin of your reputation.

You should go speak to a shrink on Tuesday. Otherwise, don't be surprised if the men in white coats show up, put the straight-jacket on you, and take you to the psych hospital.

Mike; May 23, 2008 10:40 PM
khassani said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; May 23, 2008 10:41 PM
khassani said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; May 23, 2008 10:44 PM
Yamaka said...: RodentinMD:

Read my 10:29 PM post for the Big Picture, again.
________________________________
Folks:

Alexis Herman is the VP Kind because she has the experience as a former Labor Sec under Clinton. She is young and articulate and charming politician.

She had some investigation of influence peddling. But a very good candidate to woo the woman voters, away from Hillary.

That's why I imagine BHO's people allegedly approached her.

She informed the Fed about the Attempt. Fed allegedly recorded.

All this needs to explode in the MSM to be available in the Google!

Wait, stay tuned.

Cool your Champagne!

The War Just Begins.; May 23, 2008 10:57 PM
Martin said...: Yamaka said: "She has to just keep quiet... she has to just walk out"

Finally, something I can agree on with Yamaka! Yes, Hillary -- please do keep quiet, and walk out! You hateful, evil, disgusting disgrace to our party!; May 23, 2008 11:00 PM
greywolf said...: Fyi for everyone questioning the popular vote Obama currently hold the popular vote, delegat vote, most states and super delgates. That is if FL and MI are not factored in. However if they are factored in HRC will win the popular vote total. Which is no biggie especially since obama holds all the other cat's and will continue to hold them. If and I mean if by some chance they give Obama those votes in MI as other then he will retain the popular vote lead.; May 23, 2008 11:02 PM
greywolf said...: You can find that info on real clear politics .com; May 23, 2008 11:03 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Yamaka -

You are hallucinating again.

Obama will be looking at Governor Kathleen Sebelius IF he wants a woman on the ticket with him - not some unknown person that has been investigated for bribery.

Come on - get a grip - we know you can do it.

H
OBAMA '08
P
E

p.s. Yakama - How much money is the Clinton campaign paying you per hour to post here?; May 23, 2008 11:05 PM
dsimon said...: Yamaka: By June 4th I believe she will be leading in PV by about 150 K at least.

Only if you believe that the vote in Michigan accurately represented the fantasy that no one in that state wanted to vote for Obama. Do you really think that's the case? If not, how can the Michigan vote totals be considered valid? Or do we count elections that can't possibly reflect reality now?

That she is the Majority Candidate

First, is there any evidence that the candidates at least through Super Tuesday expended resources on votes that did not lead to more pledged delegates? If not, why should the popular vote be relevant?

And again, she leads in that irrelevant metric only if one believes the Michigan fiction and discount what would have been the popular vote in caucus states that didn't report vote totals.

and has more experience and she deserve the Nomination.

You buy her "35 years" line? That means with 29 years of experience she still voted for the Iraq war. Obama actually has more legislative experience than she does.

She will be Nominated because of the broader and deeper she enjoys in Country: Most of Latinos, most of women, working, and older Americans, constituting 55%

Recent polls show Obama doing almost as well among white working-class voters against McCain as Clinton does, so in the general election his support should be as broad and deep as hers.

If the SDs don't buy her argument, she has to just walk out w/o shaking hands of anyone, as Ted Kennedy did to Carter in 1980.

She does that, she'll have no future in the party. No way will she be nominated in 2012 if she subverts the Democrats in this election. Every pro-choice person would rightly be furious with her when McCain gets the opportunity to appoint two conservative justices.

Oh, and it would be nice if you response to my prior post that answered your question as to what the problems were with just seating Michigan and Florida according to their election results.; May 23, 2008 11:08 PM
apissedant said...: Yam,
1.2 million is the number that Hillary got. By honoring all of her votes, you would be reestablishing those 1.2 million people.
Obama never said, nor intended to say he did not want Michigan votes. He is currently beating Hillary in heads to heads with McCain in Michigan at this very moment. He withdrew his name because ALL candidates agreed to the idea that the Michigan primary WOULD NOT COUNT, which means the votes WOULD NOT COUNT. Hillary's name was clearly on the ballot, so if any of the uncommitted voters had wanted to vote for her, THEY WOULD HAVE DONE SO. By voting uncommitted, they were clearly choosing SOMEONE OTHER THAN HRC. This much is clear. Of those that actually counted, his ABSOLUTE WORST performance was 26%!!! So giving him less than this percentage of the total delegates would be disingenuous. Your plan does just that.
Barack Obama did not violate DNC rules with his national ad buy, he may have skirted the line, but he did not cross it. This is just like her visit to Florida that occurred the day of the Florida primary, so if he is punished, she should be too. Also, punishing him by taking away half of his voters would disenfranchise half of the voters that voted for him, so by your own logic, this would be a mistake. Haha, I talked about Yama and logic in the same sentence... that's stupid.

Leah,
I fully realize that Hagel is unlikely to occur. I am just saying that it would actually be a good choice. Whether or not the rank and file Ds would like it is irrelevant. Their choice would be that ticket, or McCain, and a true D would choose Obama over McCain any day of the week. It would again, speak straight to the message of one America, unity, and change that is Obama's entire platform.
I also realize Edwards is unlikely, as he has repeatedly said he does not want the VP slot, but I still want him in the White House whether he likes it or not.
I would also love Biden, and Biden would bring true experience to the ticket, but I think he would be a poor choice. The fact is, Obama should choose a middle of the road running mate who will fit into his campaign. Biden is too much of a tried and true D for this to work.
Historically, a VP adds very little to a Presidential ticket, but can take away a whole lot. For this reason, Obama should worry more about his potential VP distracting from his message than he should about his VP pulling in extra votes.
Although he got mixed reviews, Edwards WAS the perfect VP candidate. The problem with that ticket was Kerry, uninformed voters, and the silly Iraq war, not Edwards. He definitely added a little to the ticket, just not enough to tip the scales. He was working against too much.
Pick a VP who IS a VP. Do not pick someone that overpowers the main candidate. Webb could easily do this. He is a leader, not a follower, and I don't even like the direction he leads in.
I would pick a very clean candidate, who is smart, but knows better than to upstage the star.

Independent,
Unknown is just fine, I would love a Chafee VP slot. Webb was a Republican cross over too, and Chafee is a much better one. Like I said, the worry is more that the VP will take away from the campaign, not how much they will add. He is squeaky clean, and would again show the "change" message. He would also fair well in VP debates and public speaking engagements. He has experience, and is unlikely to create any gaffs.

Robert in MN,
Great points, questions many Obama supporters have wondered. Apparently, caucuses open to all Democrats are undemocratic, because most people are too lazy to actually go to them. Considering most were in the evenings or on weekends, most people cannot use work as an excuse. However, a completely open primary in Indiana, which resulted in upwards of 400,000 REPUBLICAN voters deciding the DEMOCRATIC candidate is completely democratic. We are just not smart enough to understand I guess. We must be those college educated people, who lost our ability to be logical during our wasted years in a vain attempt to better ourselves.; May 23, 2008 11:15 PM
greywolf said...: Gawd Yam is still at it. Gezz go find another place to peddle you bs will ya. No one here is stupid enough to buy into any thing that spews from your mouth or shall I say your mind to your fingers. Maybe there is where the problem lies, could it be there is complete disconnect from reality that blends towards insanity?cpnsw; May 23, 2008 11:23 PM
greywolf said...: to be honest everyone, Obama will be looking for someone that has strong experience on the foreign affairs/international side of the fence. Who out there meets that criteria. He has no problems with the economic side of the fence, and to be honest he has no problems with the other side either but to appease those that are concerned that is the direction he would go.; May 23, 2008 11:27 PM
apissedant said...: Yam,
Did you really just talk about the Manchurian candidate? You do realize he was assassinated. Can at least one Clinton supporter stop comparing Obama and his "eventual failure" to a failure that ended due to the death of the candidate?; May 23, 2008 11:29 PM
apissedant said...: greywolf,
Name an election where a good VP pick arguably won the contest for a presidential candidate. I really can't think of one. I can think of ones where the VP did quite a bit to lose the election for the presidential candidate, but not one where they won it for them. A good VP candidate disappears into the background.; May 23, 2008 11:32 PM
Anonymous said...: greywolf said
If and I mean if by some chance they give Obama those votes in MI as other then he will retain the popular vote lead.

Ah, well, there's my cue.

The popular vote total has no real meaning in the election process. It's just a side issue for people to argue over.

However, Hillary Clinton continues to proclaim herself the leader of the popular vote.

So the numbers behind her claim need to be studied a bit.

The claim that Hillary Clinton leads in the vote count is based on a count of 328,000 for Clinton, zero for Obama in Michigan.

In 2004, 2.48 million Michiganders voted for John Kerry.

328,000 is 13% of 2.48 million.

In comparison, in South Carolina there were 532,151 votes cast in the primary, compared to 661,699 votes cast for Kerry in 2004. That produces a ratio of 80%.

All of the other states with open primaries like Michigan have similar ratios to South Carolina. The ratio for California is 75%; for Arkansas it's 70%.

Even the Florida ratio is 48%.

Michigan's ratio is 13%.

The Clinton claim of legitimacy is based on the premise that the will of the voters in Michigan is 328,000 for Clinton, zero for Obama. 13 percent of the 2.48 million votes cast for Kerry in 2004.

.....

Btw, let me reiterate that I don't address Yamaka. The only reason I keep posting this information over and over is because Hillary Clinton herself is claiming to lead in the popular vote.

.....

greywolf, welcome to our world.

.....

Leah, I believe that the first post on the Open Thread was on March 18. Some fool posted a "List of Leaners" and, well, here we are.; May 23, 2008 11:34 PM
Yamaka said...: Folks:

I just made a few phone calls to DC regarding Bribery Attempt on Alexis Herman, former Labor Secretary.

People suspect the voice in the Fed's tape is either Jim Johnson or David Axelrod, and another female voice could be Valerie Jarrett.

Subject to confirmation, I concede.

This is the Game Changer, Folks.

This will be dubbed as the May Surprise of 2008, if it survives the scrutiny of the MSM, caution.

Keep your Champagne in the cooler.

Cheer, Smile and Vote for Hillary, the First Woman POTUS.; May 23, 2008 11:35 PM
Robert in MN said...: Let’s see, a candidate sticks around on the long shot that her opponent gets assanated, regardless of the harm to the party’s chances in November.

Narcissistic personality disorder defined:
1. has a grandiose sense of self-importance
2. is preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love
3. believes that he or she is "special" and unique
4. requires excessive admiration
5. has a sense of entitlement
6. is interpersonally exploitative
7. lacks empathy
8. is often envious of others or believes others are envious of him or her
9. shows arrogant, haughty behaviors or attitudes; May 23, 2008 11:35 PM
billyjay66 said...: greywolf said

"If and I mean if by some chance they give Obama those votes in MI as other then he will retain the popular vote lead."

Remember Hillary asks no permission on how she counts votes. IA, NV, ME, WA .... 110,000 advantage Obama. Hillary counts zero. You count however you want. Its ALL unofficial. Its all uncountable. It all means nothing.

Michigan....zero for Obama is the only way they can even get it close. Actually it was Clinton 328,151 not Clinton 293,380. She won an election against "non of the above" 52.8% to 47.2% a margin of 5.59% and 34,771 for those able to see math clearly.

So for the only election in history where a candidate said "It counts for nothing" and then "I want it all" she asks no permission to count the uncountable and you need none to count a fairer way.; May 23, 2008 11:38 PM
greywolf said...: apissedent your right, but it would be nice to have a vp for a change that did something positive for a change, some one with class, character, knowledge, ability, and brains. unlike Channey who was an obvious puppet that really has looked pretty stupid and has put a bad taste in everyones mouth.; May 23, 2008 11:38 PM
greywolf said...: yam, the problem with you is that you really beleive your bull. If any of what you say had a remote chance of truth, the media would have been all over it already. So put a sock in it and go back to sleep.; May 23, 2008 11:45 PM
Robert in MN said...: Keith Oblermann sums up Clinton nicely. Make sure you watch the last 2 minutes, especially Yam.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24797758/; May 23, 2008 11:50 PM
Mike in Maryland said...: After reading greywolf's comment, which reads in full:
Gawd Yam is still at it. Gezz go find another place to peddle you bs will ya. No one here is stupid enough to buy into any thing that spews from your mouth or shall I say your mind to your fingers. Maybe there is where the problem lies, could it be there is complete disconnect from reality that blends towards insanity?cpnsw, I've changed my mind on Yam leaving.

DO NOT GO YAMAKAMIKAZE!

Here's why:

WE know Yamakamikaze is crazy and delusional, but if he/she/it goes to a new site, people on that site might take a couple of weeks to realize how delusional he is. What if someone on another site reads his rantings and ravings, but doesn't realize how delusional he is? Then they go to another site to spread his delusions, and convert others?

We need Yamakamikaze to stay here, where we can ignore him as we wish, or keep him just enough engaged to keep him coming back, and not have enough time to spread his propaganda to other sites.

Besides, his delusions help us to make out points on occasion, and can help us keep a measure of our own sanity. And we have the opportunity to make fun of him if and when we want.

Mike; May 23, 2008 11:50 PM
Yamaka said...: apis:

Thanks for the reply.

You may recall that there were 3 other names including HRC in the MI ballot. Four people removed their names, including BHO. Therefore, in theory, the "Uncommitted" belongs to all the 4 names. What proportion belongs to each candidate is impossible to know now. That's why some people say remove it (55 delegates) out of the equation, make the Hurdle 2154, nor 2209.

On the violation of the Agreement in Fl: If you agree that HRC did not run campaign ad there, where as BHO did, then what should be the punishment? If not taking out some number of delegates, how else will you punish this transgression? Hillary went to FL after the polls closed - that is NOT a violation, IMO.

On the Manchurian Candidate:

I use it because of possible involvement of Sponsor(s) of BHO's Candidacy. Nothing more.

I don't mean to imply the entire Story of the Movie.

Well Folks. Take a deep breath and exhale!

Indeed, we live in interesting time!
_________________________________

Folks: Why do you get upset when I say that Hillary should walk out of the Convention?

Is it not her right? Didn't Ted Kennedy do to Carter?

Didn't Reagan lose to Ford, then come back roaring in 1980 to capture the Throne?

I want her to win. She is the Presidential Timber. She is a Genuine American Classic.

Cheers.; May 23, 2008 11:51 PM
Robert in MN said...: I vote for Mike in MD as spindoctor. Too funny.; May 23, 2008 11:55 PM
billyjay66 said...: countjellybean and graywolf

Worked up my numbers and read your post after I posted my numbers above .......I could not dare to out count...countjellybean!!!

Like I said above you can count the uncountable any way you want without asking permission.

I am impressed by the 2.28 million 2004 turnout. I did not realize how small this turnout was.

Now.... to get "off the wall" in counting(like they are).....every vote cast for Hillary 328K vs every vote not cast for her 2.48M means she lost by 2.15 M!!! Makes just as much sense.; May 23, 2008 11:57 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Here is the VIDEO:

Olberman: Special Comment On Hillary's Assassination Remark

http://youtube.com/watch?v=nyf811vluHg

It's the whole comment from start to finish.

.; May 23, 2008 11:59 PM
Yamaka said...: "Keith Oblermann sums up Clinton nicely. Make sure you watch the last 2 minutes, especially Yam."

robert:

I am a centrist, a moderate - I hate the Obler as much as I hate Rush L, both are jokers of FAR LEFT and FAR RIGHT.

Do you know a vast majority of the American electorate lie in the Center? We Rule!

______________________________

RodentinMD:

You have some sense of humor!

Not bad at all. I thought you are as dry as a stone in W Texas!

What do you think of Bribery Attempt on Alexis Herman? A VP spot for a favorable outcome at the RBC!!

Voila...What a daring attempt?

If true, I say it is a May Surprise! What say you, Rodent?

:-(; May 24, 2008 12:00 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: countjellybean-

March 18th - wow!

It seems like much longer than that!

Hmmmmm... yeah now I do remember when they started the Open Thread and announced it on the SD page - so I guess I've been around since the 'birth'.

Seems like we've been here forever! LOL.

Btw - I was going to ask you to post a list of leaners but maybe you should wait for a day or two - I have a feeling there are going to be MANY switches headed our way soon ;); May 24, 2008 12:03 AM
Mike in Maryland said...: Tonight I wrote an email to Governor O'Malley of Maryland.

I supported O'Malley when he ran for Mayor of Baltimore, and then when he ran for Governor of Maryland.

On May 9, 2007, O'Malley endorsed Clinton's candidacy, and in return, he was named Chairman of Clinton's Maryland campaign.

I made it very clear in my email that I expected him to speak out very loud and very clear that he should repudiate Senator Clinton's 'assasination' remarks, and ended my message with these words:

Please speak out about how repugnant were the remarks Senator Clinton made to make sure the citizens of Maryland do not feel that you have the same thoughts and opinions. If Marylanders do not hear you speak up on this subject and repudiate the words AS SPOKEN, we can and will presume that you totally agree with her comments, and we will remember that when we next see your name on a ballot for any office.

We need to put pressure on ALL of SDs who have endorsed Senator Clinton that this type of language is NOT part of the American political lexicon, and if ANY candidate thinks it should be, or does not speak out against such language, they should be ashamed of themselves for thinking so, and teh voters will remember this at the next election.

Mike; May 24, 2008 12:09 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Yamaka -

Breaking News!

The SDs will be jumping off of the Clinton ship and hopping onto the Obama train.

You still have time to hop aboard before the train pulls out of the station heading over to 1600 Pennsylvania Ave :)
_____________________

To Hillary:
Hey, when that phone rings at 3am tonight I betcha it will be Ted Kennedy & Family calling you to thank you for wrapping up the Obama nomination this afternoon :); May 24, 2008 12:10 AM
apissedant said...: Yam,
It was originally a book, then a movie, then a movie again.
Once again, he did not violate the rules, he sidestepped the rules. He bought a national spot. The rules said he could not buy a spot specifically in Florida, not that none of his buys could reach someone from Florida.
Here is a quote from a woman named Candice,
I used to work selling ads for the cable company so I will pass along what I know. If somebody buys time with the network nationally, you cannot block the ad in a certain market. Even the cable companies receive signals by satellite. I can't say its "impossible" but I doubt any network wants to go to the trouble of trying to technically block a certain market. Hope that helps explain.

If he wanted to buy national ads, which would best get his message out, he was forced to also advertise in Florida. There was no box to check where he could just pick certain areas.
Clinton scheduled her arrival and announced it to the media and her supporters long before the primary was over. She essentially "advertised" her presence, and it was carried out much like a victory party.

Your Michigan argument is laughable at best. Richardson and Biden were lucky to get 10% of the vote together in any competition, and Edwards never once beat Obama. Therefore, common sense dictates Obama would have won a majority of these votes. There is literally 0% chance of him taking less than 10% of the popular vote, which your solution says is the logical result. Again, his worst result was 26%, in a more southern state, which had a much smaller black population than Michigan. You yourself stated he wins 90% of the black votes.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/01/16/michigan-results-reveal-s_n_81713.html
What's more, blacks make up about 28% of the democratic voters in Michigan, so how could he have only won 10%? He has historically received over 30% of the white vote in most states as well. This would lead him with all of the uncommitted.
Lastly, all three of the others not on the ballot have since endorsed Obama. All Edwards delegates who have declared, have declared for Obama. The candidates as well as the voters have spoken, and they want Obama to have the delegates.; May 24, 2008 12:17 AM
Mike in Maryland said...: Robert in MN,

Thank you!

I just feel it is better to contain a contagion where someone (or someones) knows how to handle it (even if it usually is exasperating), rather than let it loose on unsuspecting innocents. Those who are not aware of, and inoculated against, the contagion might fall victim before they know what hit them.

Mike; May 24, 2008 12:20 AM
Yamaka said...: "You still have time to hop aboard before the train pulls out of the station heading over to 1600 Pennsylvania Ave :)"

Did you check? It does NOT have the engine! OMG, Where is the Engine? Gone, Hillary has taken the Engine away!

Stay inside the train. It will be very cold, it will never leave till Aug 2008 towards Hyde Park.

_______________________________

RoedentinMD:

Do you really believe that Hillary meant any harm to BHO?

You must be suffering from an acute case of paranoid hallucination.

She was talking about Campaigns going as long as in June!

Toobin in CNN talked about it

She never ever meant any harm to anybody.

You are a really a low life to go so low!

Your Gov will send a Sheriff to pick you up.

Get a life, Rodent.

:-(; May 24, 2008 12:22 AM
billyjay66 said...: Re Keith Olberman's comment

Keith listed the political assassinations of presidents and political leaders. Also the attempted assassinations - Regan, Andrew Jackson, 2 Roosevelts, Truman, Ford, Nixon. These failed attempts are interesting to google. Like Teddy Roosevelt - shot directly in the heart before a campaign speech. But the thickly folded speech slowed the bullet enough that it saved him. And he went ahead to finish the speech....wounded and bleeding.

Yamaha - the difference between Rush and Keith is that Keith forcefully delivers facts and rush manufactures the facts to his convenience.; May 24, 2008 12:30 AM
apissedant said...: Hillary is trying to save us all!!!! Stop being so mean to her! She has apparently also been attending Rev. Wright's sermons. She has listened to Wright, and realizes that the white power in America will never allow us to have a black President. The Secret Service will kill him if they have to. Do to this, she realizes the inevitable, that Obama will be murdered soon.
Now jump forward. Let's say someone murders Obama after Hillary has already dropped out. Then we don't have a candidate!! Obama himself has said that Clinton would make a much better president than McCain, but if we don't have a candidate, then McCain will surely win. This is the last thing Obama wants! For this reason, Clinton must NEVER DROP OUT OF THE CAMPAIGN. Not until Obama swears in as POTUS. She has to be prepared to step in, and honor his memory once white America finally takes care of business.
It is just common sense.
What this does leave in question, is why is white America so afraid of black America? What popular white public figure has ever been murdered by a black man? How many black public figures have been murdered by white men? How many white public figures have been murdered by white men? White people sound scary.; May 24, 2008 12:32 AM
Vicki in Seattle said...: You know, Keith Olbermann really should learn how to express himself - it's not good to hold in your feelings so much.

bwwwwaahahahhahahahaha!!; May 24, 2008 12:33 AM
Yamaka said...: apis:

What I say is that it is impossible to know what was the intent of the voters when they voted "Uncommitted" on Jan 29.

You surmise from various convenient arguments the intent of the voters.
Maybe they are right, may not be.

My view is at that time BHO did not want MI to vote for him, period. That's why he removed his name.

In my opinion he did not want to cooperate with the Revote Idea because he thought he would lose.

On the Agreement violation in FL: You give reasons why he violated the agreement.

Whatever the reasons may be, a violation did occur, for which there should be a remedy. That remedy in my view is 50% sanction.

I understand you want BHO to win this Nomination by hook or crook.

I say follow a fair procedure and win. Otherwise, he has no legitimacy.

In any event, he is sure to lose in the Fall because he is the least vetted, least experienced and riskiest Candidate for the Democratic Party to field him for the Fall against a vastly experienced McCain, IMO.

Let us wait for the RBC Result!; May 24, 2008 12:36 AM
apissedant said...: HE DID NOT VIOLATE THE RULES. I explained how it was a loophole in the rules, just like her appearing immediately after the primary. Also, both Michigan and Florida violated the rules. This is undisputed, yet your idea is to impose no penalty. You also say NO VOTE SHOULD BE DISENFRANCHISED. This means, whether he broke the rule or not, no penalty, or voters will would be ignored. And again, HE DID NOT VIOLATE THE RULES.
As far as Michigan is concerned, one thing is for sure: UNCOMMITTED DID NOT WANT TO VOTE FOR HILLARY. If they had, they would have.
OBAMA DID NOT STOP THE REVOTE. The revote was stopped by the state of Michigan and the DNC. The state of Michigan said they could not afford it, and the DNC said they would not pay for Michigan's mistake. You should educate yourself with facts instead of fiction. Tom Clancy is fun to read, but I wouldn't base my life on it.; May 24, 2008 12:44 AM
billyjay66 said...: yamaha

Who gave you permission to count your way? That same person gave the rest of us to count the the uncountable our way too. That same person gave Hillary..... "this counts for nothing" and "I want it all"...... Clinton permission to count her way.

go ....Yamaha.... keep pluckin those strings; May 24, 2008 12:46 AM
tmess2 said...: You know its fun looking at someone who claims to be a long-time Democratic activist who doesn't even know his history.

Since 1976 for the Democrats and 1980 for the Republicans, there have been 7 open Democratic Nomination contests and 6 open Republican contests. Of those seven open Democratic contests, only once has a person who previously was a serious contender for the nomination won. That person was Al Gore who had the little advantage of being the incumbent Vice-President when he ran for the second time.

On the Republican side, five of the six were making their second or subsequent major attempt at the White House. The only exception being the current incumbent who had the advantage of being the son of a former President.

Bottom line -- Republicans nominate people the second time around, Democrats do not.

As such, Reagan's treatment of Fod is not a precedent for Democratic politics. Kennedy's treatment of Carter took place in a year in which we had no chance anyhow, but was still unacceptable behavior.

It seems that the argument for someone other than Obama as the nominee is not based on names or anything but rather the dream that after Obama has 2026 or 2100 or 2210 or whatever the final number is, there will be some uprising to take the nomination away from the person who has apparently won the nomination.

The one thing I do know is that the Yamakaze's theory is Karl Rove's wet dream. An August switch could be the only thing that would cost the Democratic Party the House and the Senate.

p.s. Mike in Maryland -- Sonny Hoyer is one of the folks I expect to endorse Obama in early June. I have other potential Michigan, Florida, and DNC members who are likely to support Obama on earlier posts. Not that Obama having the votes today matters to our revolutionary. Who does that remind me of Lenin? Mugabe?; May 24, 2008 1:01 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: I have been thinking about the Hillary remark.

1) She made the remark today on Friday.

2) Now there will be low press coverage because of the weekend and the holiday.

3) Hillary never says anything unless she has it planned out and has a strategy.

4) She hasn't been getting much press coverage over the past week or so... now she is back in the spotlight (she has knocked Obama and McCain off the news cycle).

5) She has apologized (half-assed) and she gave an explanation of what she meant.

6) Now she has set the stage to go into her 'poor pitiful me - the press and the Obama people and the MEN are picking on me routine.

7) In a few days she will be able to try to turn this around and say that 'everyone' is trying to use the 'RFK remark' unfairly against her because they don't want a woman to be president and that people are using this issue to get her to drop out and that in her mind that would be unfair to the people of MI and FL, blah blah blah...

And then the chess game will continue...

The only way this will end is if TONS of SDs come forward in the next two to three days and endorse Obama!; May 24, 2008 1:03 AM
apissedant said...: apparently it is late at night... I misspelled due. My deepest apologies.
Leah,
why do you have so much time to post on here?
I realize yamaka is posting from an institution, so he has all the time in the world. What is your excuse?; May 24, 2008 1:08 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Or... and this sounds a bit crazy:

She made the remark on purpose as a way to UNITE the Party - and for her to be pushed out of the race.

Since she knows she can't win and she knows that her supporters don't want to support Obama - she would know that she would have to do something 'horrible' to get her supporters to desert her and go to the Obama camp.

I KNOW I KNOW she probably would not be big enough to do something like that for the good of the party or for the good of America - but it sounds good.; May 24, 2008 1:12 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; May 24, 2008 1:19 AM
billyjay66 said...: leah

I just can't figure out how IF she were thinking and planning.....for what? Since it wasn't the first or second time she mentioned it....she may not have connected that the subject was staying in the race and Bobby Kennedy.

HOWEVER she sure did a bang up job of apologizing! Wasn't it heart warming hearing her say "I'm sorry...Barack"...not! Gimme a break!

This should be a historical classic along with "I didn't inhale"; May 24, 2008 1:22 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: apissedant -

I am a smoker and I don't smoke in the house. I keep my laptop on the patio and when I come out to smoke a cigarette I check posts etc.

I am not really here all the time I am doing other things in between posts, but mainly late at night I am here pretty constant for a few hours.

And I haven't gone job hunting yet since I've been back from my last 3 month stay in Italy.

I've been too busy with my gardens and being obsessed with the election :); May 24, 2008 1:23 AM
Clemens said...: Keith Olbermann for press secretary? nope nope nope Yamaka for press secretary! Not even Tony Snow but a more bizarre spin on things; May 24, 2008 1:28 AM
apissedant said...: leah,
Haha, cute idea. A Clinton voluntarily giving something away in a truly selfless act. You have completely lost it. Maybe in 30 years when their daughter runs for President. Where did she come from? Somehow through all of this, Chelsea has still managed to come off as a good person. She is honest, intelligent, and appears to actually have empathy. It couldn't be genetics, because neither of her parents have an empathetic bone in their body.
From your LATEST 3 month trip to Italy? We need to trade positions, I can't afford to drive to the gas station, let alone fly to Italy MULTIPLE times. Plus, I'm also Italian, albeit only 25%, so you should donate to your fellow dago, and allow him see where his ancestors come from.; May 24, 2008 1:41 AM
billyjay66 said...: leah said

"1) She made the remark today on Friday.

2) Now there will be low press coverage because of the weekend and the holiday."

Seems to be the opposite. it will be her version of the all weekend long Rev Wright coverage. It will be curious if FOX NEWS tries to cover for her.; May 24, 2008 1:47 AM
Oregon Dem said...: wow I go away for a few days and there are like 20 new posters on the site.

Glad to see the newbies are keeping Yamaka busy reposting his same absurd remarks.

Regards to all. Leah - it is almost your bedtime though - well in a hour or so anyway.....; May 24, 2008 1:49 AM
apissedant said...: clemens,
that would be seriously amusing. Him chastising the reporters, while the Fox News correspondent hides behind the CNN correspondent. In 2012 the Fox correspondent runs for President, and sites the moment as their, "war" experience, explaining why they are qualified to be commander and chief.; May 24, 2008 1:50 AM
Ariane said...: Yam said:
"Will you all pray for the health and well being of Hillary, Chelsea and Bill Clinton?"

I'll answer that one: Yes I certainly will pray for them.; May 24, 2008 1:51 AM
Oregon Dem said...: tmess2 thanks for posting the percentages needed for the upcoming primaries. Of course I knew Oregon's because the Or Dem party set them out on our website, but you did a bunch of work on that and I appreciate it.

Mike in MD Iam gonna have to look at your list of supers closely first cut those look like likely.; May 24, 2008 1:52 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: billyjay66 -

I think I heard that on the weekends that the viewership is lower on the news stations than during the week.

People aren't home as much on the weekends and this is a holiday weekend so lots of folks will be off on short trips or out doing things with family/friends.

Also on the weekends there are SPORTS on TV.

Anyway I may be wrong but I do believe that they say the campaigns 'do a Friday dump' of info so that it plays over the weekend and less people see it.

Examples of Friday dumps:

1) The Clinton tax returns
2) McCain's medical records
3) Cindy McCain's tax return
4) Hillary's White House schedules

hmmm... can't think of more at the moment.; May 24, 2008 1:53 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Oregon Dem -

Welcome back ;)

Yes we have lots of new folks on the thread. I have tried to warn everyone that it is useless to 'logically' debate with Yakama but I failed ;(

If you haven't seen the NEW Olbermann Special Comment yet there is a link up above in some of my other posts.; May 24, 2008 1:58 AM
Oregon Dem said...: Yamaka:

Here isone you cannot prove wrong. More people have voted against Senator Clinton than for her during the dem nomnination process....; May 24, 2008 1:59 AM
apissedant said...: leah,
you didn't fail. I realized right off the bat, but he is on here 24/7. I am sure he's actually a Republican spy, but that isn't the point. It does give us practice in our debating techniques, and it is sometimes amusing. It is also sometimes frustrating, but it is something to do instead of sleeping.

I have been reading the posts here for months, so I was fully versed. I have just never been any good at keeping my mouth shut.; May 24, 2008 2:01 AM
Oregon Dem said...: The replay of countdown out here on MSNBC just started at 11:00 - it will be on in about 50 mins...

If my wife andI get too tired we will watch on You Tube.

;-); May 24, 2008 2:02 AM
Mike in Maryland said...: Been reading some of the commentary at MyDD - a bastion for Clinton supporters. Seems that Hillary's comments have opened some wounds over there, and the battles are raging!

One example of an exchange:

Firewall wrote:
" . . . Seriously, this has to end now.

Mark my words:

If anything happens to Barack Obama between now and his inauguration, the blame will be placed (justly or otherwise) on Hillary Rodham Clinton."

To which JustJennifer responded:
"Right, because we can't blame anyone who would be so vile as to assassinate a sitting Senator. It's all Hillary's fault!!! GIVE ME A BREAK."

Firewall fired back:
"This is indefensible, Jennifer.

She has to go. You don't get to float assassination talk about the Democratic nominee.

Not even as the wife of a former president."

And the response from JustJennifer:
"She wasn't floating assassination talk about a Presidential candidate."

And then Tenafly Viper wrote:
"Then why don't you tell us what she was doing?"

But no direct response from JustJennifer to that last comment.

It's funny how perspective can change how you hear and interpret words, even when reality says your interpretation is totally wrong.

But then again, we have our own segment of posters here who are not reality-based, and no amount of logic can dissuade them from their alternate universe viewpoint.

Mike; May 24, 2008 2:02 AM
Ariane said...: Leah (OT) I noticed you wrote some comments in Italian and said you are Italian American. I am curious if you grew up partly in Italy and learned the language that way?

I think italian is a beautiful language; maybe some day I will make an effort at it. I can figure out some words because they are similar to français. I am half French and I spent some of my youth there, and then studied French language & literature at university

I think that Americans should start earlier learning another language as people in other countries do. Using more than one language is not only good for broadening the possibilities to communicate with more people and appreciate arts and media, it is also healthy for one's brain.; May 24, 2008 2:21 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Mike in Maryland -

I went peeking around on the Hillary site earlier to see what they were saying over there on the comments - NOT MUCH. Quite a few comments had been deleted by the admin. and most of the others were about how great Hillary is, or about donating $, etc.

and one person posted:

"Hillary Clinton or DEATH.
Hillary Clinton or McCain!"

LOL!

Oh - and the one that won the prize:

One person said she hoped that if Hillary did not get to be the Dem. nominee then she hoped that Hillary would be voted in as the Democratic VP - AND THEN the poster said she would then want McCain to be voted in as president. THEN she said that Hillary could work as McCain's VP and then she could run as Pres. in 2012 and it would be easier to win since she would have been VP for four years with McCain. LOL!

Now isn't that somethin'?
She was serious and clueless!

I am heading to bed.
Goodnight everyone ;); May 24, 2008 2:26 AM
Oregon Dem said...: Leah: (et.al.)

I just read Senator Clinton's "apology" aloud to my wife (full text). We both agreed on two things

1) That was no apology, and

2) She should get out now.

Even my wife said "dang all of her supers should / will abandon her soon" and she has not even been following the race all that much.; May 24, 2008 2:34 AM
Anonymous said...: I don't believe Hillary's statement was meant to be purposely harmful. It was an unfortunate thoughtless statement , and so soon after Huckabee's tasteless joke didn't help.; May 24, 2008 2:37 AM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Ariane -

No, I grew up in a small town in southern Illinois in the house of my grandparents. My grandfather came to the U.S.A. from Italy when he was 12 years old back in 1904. I didn't learn much Italian from him though - we spoke only English at home. I started learning Italian about six or seven years ago here in Houston at the Italian Cultural and Community Center. My Italian teacher retired and I haven't had any classes for a year or so now.
I've been to Italy three times since Y2000, for 10 days, 3 months, and 3 months. I LOVE Italy. The Italian part of my family lives less than one hour east of Naples in the country - grapevines, olive trees, chickens, rabbits, walnut trees, fig trees, HUGE HUGE gardens, etc.

I can't keep my eyes open.
Goodnight (Buona notte); May 24, 2008 2:37 AM
Mike in Maryland said...: She was serious and clueless!

ROTFLMAO!!

Although clueless is not the proper descriptor for that one.

Uneducated and duped? Not even close!

Living in another universe? Might be a closer description!

The US stopped electing the President and Vice-President on separate tickets with the passage of the XIIth Amendment in 1804, after Jefferson and Burr tied in the Electoral College in the 1800 election.

Mike; May 24, 2008 2:38 AM
Bull Schmitt said...: People shouldn't be so hard on ol' Yamabamadingdong, he's just working dutifully on getting his post count up to qualify him for some peachy keen McCain swag...

By now, I'm sure he's qualified for the John McCain flip-flop spatula.

50 more posts, and he qualifies for the "John McCain and MY FRIENDS in Concert" CD - McCain and a chorus of 50 lobbyists from his campaign staff sing Lee Greenwood's greatest hit. 12 times in a row.

100 more posts, and a brand-spankin' new John McCain autograph model colostomy bag can be yours!

(The filter keeps sucking air, but the pool is empty, if ya know what I mean...)

:-); May 24, 2008 2:55 AM
Mike in Maryland said...: Bull,

Is the accompanist (on piano) for the "John McCain and MY FRIENDS in Concert" CD our current Secretary of State, Kinda Sleazy Rice?

VBG

Mike; May 24, 2008 2:59 AM
Bull Schmitt said...: Mike in MD - I'm looking at the liner notes here... it's Rice on the pi-anny, Cheney plays the washboard bass, Rummy chews on the harmonica, while Bush blows into a half-full jug o' moonshine.

A.K.A. - A Republican jazz combo.

Good night, and good luck!; May 24, 2008 3:07 AM
Ariane said...: tmess2 wrote: "One potential solution to the issue of the 19 at-large/PLEO uncommitted delegates might be to
give all four of the candidates not on the ballot (Obama, Richardson, Edwards, and Biden), the right to review delegate candidates for these spots with the agreement of all four needed to veto a candidate"

Are you taking into consideration that Richardson and Biden had dropped out by the time of the Michigan straw poll/beauty contest/non-binding election? They had originally been on the ballot, then, like Obama, they took their names off in accordance with their having signed an agreement not to participate in the primary, but after getting so few votes in Iowa they dropped out of the race. Would you still give all 4 the right to review delegate candidates or limit it to Edwards and Obama?; May 24, 2008 3:21 AM
Mike in Maryland said...: Comment on the Washington Post's 'The Trail':

"Calm down people, Clinton is not saying Obama should be assassinated, or is likely to be assassinated.

She's just saying there's a lot of white, hard-working, bitter, American gun owners out there."

Mike; May 24, 2008 3:53 AM
Ariane said...: apissedant,

I like your point about if Yam thinks every vote is sacred and is more important than rules, then how can he argue to take away the sacred votes of those who voted for Obama because Yam says Obama broke the rules.

Oh I also enjoyed your earlier post comparing Yams vote math to multiplying loaves and fishes.; May 24, 2008 4:12 AM
apissedant said...: Mike,
You're only partially correct. Under the current rules, the VP is selected by the presidential candidate. This has not always been the case. If you look at the 1968 democratic primary, the convention chose the VP, not the president.
So as recently as the 60's, there would be a possibility of the voters joining candidates with nothing in common, although the idea of Hillary being at the Republican National Convention in order to be nominated is laughable.
Another interesting tidbit:
Only 13 states held a primary in 1968. The vast majority of delegates were still up for grabs. When Kennedy was killed, only 1200 of the 2600 delegates had been decided.
In 1992, Bill won 39 of the 50 states, so HRC's claims of his long fight are rather laughable. He won more votes than all of his opponents combined, no matter how votes were totaled. He got two and a half times the votes of the next closest candidate. He won Super Tuesday. All this added to a much more spread out primary explains fully why the, "campaigns" as they were, were still in full swing in June.
Hillary has none of this on her side, just random retardation.
Another interesting point, Kennedy had less than 400 of the 1200 awarded at the time of the shooting. He was nearly 200 votes behind Humphrey. Humphrey ended up carrying only 2.21% of the popular vote, not carrying a single state, and winning 75% of the delegates.
Basically, the moral to the story, is that not only have Hillary's words been offensive, but they really haven't had any historical point either.; May 24, 2008 5:00 AM
apissedant said...: ariane,
Thanks for the warm words. Good job bringing up the whole, "Biden and Richardson had dropped out" thing again. I had honestly forgotten, despite the fact I remember it being mentioned before. It was just drowned out by the silliness and insanity of other, much louder posts.
Regardless, I would accept either method personally. I would even say let them split it in four and let each candidate select their own delegates. The fact is, 2 of the 3 have endorsed Obama, which means they would logically select Obama delegates. Biden has not endorsed, but I am willing to trust his judgment. The one person I cannot understand giving a say, is Clinton. She is the one person that the undeclared voters obviously didn't want. She was their one real "choice," and they said, "no thanks."
I say "I" as if I have any say in this, which is kind of silly, but still. I honestly believe this would be an acceptable compromise. It would obviously be illogical, because Richardson only picked up 1% in NM, and Biden only picked up 3% in Deleware, so the odds of them picking up 10% a piece in Michigan is... well... isn't really.; May 24, 2008 5:15 AM
Joe Mich said...: Yam is absolutely delusional

Hillary is at best without any class or integrity; more likely she's cold or evil.

Let's finish this thing and move on. Obama is the democratic candidate and the sooner this becomes official then the better this country will become. Clintonianism is a thing of the past....; May 24, 2008 5:20 AM
Mike in Maryland said...: apissedant said...
You're only partially correct.

I was not discussing the picking of the VP nominee at the convention, I was discussing the idiot who Leah paraphrased as thinking:

One person said she hoped that if Hillary did not get to be the Dem. nominee then she hoped that Hillary would be voted in as the Democratic VP - AND THEN the poster said she would then want McCain to be voted in as president. THEN she said that Hillary could work as McCain's VP and then she could run as Pres. in 2012 and it would be easier to win since she would have been VP for four years with McCain.

The context was her being selected as the VP (meaning on the Democratic Party ticket), McCain winning the election, and Hillary winning the Vice Presidential 'race'.

The chances of that are between nil and zero.

The Republican Party would not in any circumstance allow her to be on the Republican ticket, the voters in the various states vote for the ticket of Pres. and VP as a team, and the Electoral College picks the Pres. and VP as a team, as chosen by the voters in the various states.

The XIIth amendment, adopted in 1804, made the change from the Pres. and VP being selected individually to both being elected together.

There is a big difference between the convention choosing the VP nominee (which the idiot poster was NOT discussing) and being elected VP by the Electoral College (which is what the idiot poster thought could happen).

Mike; May 24, 2008 5:38 AM
apissedant said...: Mike,
I knew what you meant, and it is quite clear what they probably meant, or at least what their statement would make one assume. However, I felt like saying that up until 40 years ago, there was a way where it could conceivably happen, and the idiot poster would be technically correct. Basically I was in the midst of reading the 1968 rules, and I saw a segue to what I was reading.... and a way to argue politely, and I love to argue. Unfortunately, I only really disagree with Yam and Jean. In order to have an intelligent argument, I have to make up an issue with you. My bad.
Of course McCain would never put Hillary on the ticket, that would just alienate the half of America he hasn't already alienated by adopting the Bush policies.
It would be amusing though, to have a ticket that both Democrats and Republicans couldn't stand. It would make our job a lot easier.; May 24, 2008 6:16 AM
apissedant said...: P.S. I suck at spelling, but I hate misspellings with a passion, and it took me like 3 minutes to find the spelling of segue. That stupid segway scooter ensured that no matter what I spelled, it came up on google and dictionary.com. I eventually had to put a complete sentence in quotes minus the word segue in order for me to find the correct spelling. I just thought you should know the effort I went through for you.
Clif; May 24, 2008 6:20 AM
Matt said...: We've started a new Open Thread just for VP discussions on the front page.; May 24, 2008 8:10 AM
apissedant said...: I don't know if this has been posted, but it can't hurt.
http://www.heraldtribune.com/article/20080123/NEWS/801230668
This states that Obama most definitely tried to exclude Florida from the national ads, but he was informed it was impossible. He then went to South Carolina, and asked permission. The other three states slated for first votes had already voted, so South Carolina was the only road block left. They gave him approval, saying it did not break the pledge. He then proceeded. HE ASKED PERMISSION FIRST. You can't complain he broke the rules when he got permission to do exactly what he did from the relevant authorities! If you have a problem with the national ad buy, then you have a problem with the DNC of South Carolina, because they approved it. Barack Obama followed the instructions and advice of the party leaders, which is exactly what a candidate is supposed to do. No fault to him.

However, you can argue she broke the pledge.
http://marcambinder.theatlantic.com/archives/2008/01/tonight_clinton_parties_in_flo.php
She held a victory party the day of the primary. She circulated invitations prior to the close of the polls. She did this SPECIFICALLY to Florida voters. There is no record I have seen of her gaining permission to do this. This is not advertised as a fund raiser, it is advertised as a victory party. Both the advertisement for it, as well as the party itself. The party was held in a state that held a primary prior to February 5, 2008. The agreement says that they will not campaign in any state holding a primary prior to February 5. It does not say that they will not campaign prior to the primary in any state holding a primary prior to February 5. A silly distinction, but legally it is worded poorly. Technically they are both breaking the rules by campaigning in Florida now.
Here are the silly rules.

THEREFORE, I _______________, Democratic Candidate for President, in honor and in accordance with DNC rules, pledge to actively campaign in the pre-approved early states Iowa, Nevada, New Hampshire and South Carolina. I pledge I shall not campaign or participate in any election contest occurring in any state not already authorized by the DNC to take place in the DNC approved pre-window (any date prior to February 5, 2008). Campaigning shall include but is not limited to purchasing media or campaign advocacy of any kind, attending or hosting events of more than 200 people to promote one’s candidacy for a preference primary and employing staff in the state in question. It does not include activities specifically related to raising campaign resources such as fundraising events or the hiring of fundraising staff.

Also, I am sure she hired a staff that set up the victory party. It did not organize itself. This again, had to of been done prior to polls closing, otherwise the party would not have been prepared once they did close.

Ok, I'm done with the Florida BS for real now. I just thought I would nitpick too.; May 24, 2008 8:15 AM
Yamaka said...: Good Morning Democrats:

Another warm day is in Houston.

Ariane:

I am grateful that at least one of you said you would pray for the Clintons.

Your generosity is overwhelming.

As I said many times, Hillary never meant any harm to anybody. Believe me, she is a Genuine American Classic.

Our politics may be different, but our larger humanity would bind us together, for blood is thicker than water!

___________________________________

"They gave him approval, saying it did not break the pledge. He then proceeded. HE ASKED PERMISSION FIRST."

api:

The key issue here is this: If you amend an Agreement you need to get the approval of ALL parties signed the Agreement. Not from some State which was not one of the original signatories! IMO

__________________________________

I still wonder why some of you want Hillary to drop out and get lost in the wilderness?

She is the legitimate front-runner as per the Popular Vote.

Assume BHO is in this situation, that he is lagging in delegates, but by PV he is leading. Would you scream at him and ask him to drop out of the race before it is really over? Think of it.

I want her to go ALL the way to the Convention and fight tooth and nail for the Nomination. That's fair and legitimate, IMO..

Because the Contest is very very close.

:-); May 24, 2008 9:59 AM
Robert in MN said...: Yam, you never addressed this argument yesterday. The rules are to count apples (delegates), not oranges (popular vote) Nevertheless, Clinton doesn't even count oranges:

Hillary Clinton’s argument for MI and FL is that we must count the votes in all 50 states. However, her math would disenfranchise Minnesota and other caucus states by vastly undercounting them. (This writer is from MN). The only remaining metric for Hillary Clinton to argue that she should win the nomination via super delegates is to rewrite the rules to say that the nominee should be the winner of popular vote. The math to support that argument is dishonest and flawed. The flaws of the Michigan math have been fairly well covered. The issue that is not getting sufficient play is the miscounting of caucus states if one looks at popular vote. Caucus states count delegates not popular vote totals. It is mixing apples and oranges.

For example, Wisconsin is the 20th most populous state and Minnesota is 21st. However, Wisconsin’s primary had over 5 times the “votes” (1,100,805) as Minnesota’s caucus (211,103). Minnesota historically has the top voter turnout in the nation. If Minnesota had a primary, the popular vote would have been substantially higher. In fact the net to Obama would have been over 350,000 votes instead of 73,115. Obama won all of the caucus states except one. Clinton’s math from Mars is a fabrication to steal an election by counting only a fraction of the vote from 13 caucus states.

The Democratic Primary system uses proportional allocation of delegates to avoid a Bush v. Gore problem of popular vote losing to delegates. The only way to compare caucus and primary states is by delegates through the very carefully considered system everyone agreed to before the nominating process began. Nevertheless, Hillary argues just ignore the rules and dramatically undercount 13 caucus states by focusing on popular vote instead of delegates. Shouldn’t this also be an issue of character in that after 8 long years don’t we want a president that will play by the rules?; May 24, 2008 10:11 AM
Yamaka said...: RodentinMD:

Hillary will NOT go to Republican Party at any circumstance.

The Democratic Party is her Party and the Party built by Bill Clinton.

Right now, the Party hierarchy is being infested with FAR LEFT Liberals. We want to pull it towards the Center. We are moderates.

Remember, moderates are the viable portion of the Party. I believe that most of the Americans are near the Center.

In my mind FAR LEFT Liberals may snatch the Nomination this year, but they will meet their Waterloo in the Fall because McCain is NOT McBush or McSame as you prefer to call him.

If the Party wants to win the WH, a moderate centrist HIllary must be the Nominee or BHO must reinvent himself as a Centrist!!!!!!!!!!!; May 24, 2008 10:16 AM
Meg said...: Yamaka:

Educate me. Can you give me 1 or 2 examples of issues where Obama's stand is far left and Hillary's is centrist? Certainly your opinion is based on fact.; May 24, 2008 10:20 AM
Vicki in Seattle said...: LEAH.

you need to go to Richard's site, I forget the name because it's 7:20 am on a Sattiday her on the Left Coast and I'm not fully awake yet.

also, "the last time" you went to Italy? OMG. I LOVED ITALY. I would go back in a heartbeat. I only know enough Italian to order dinner and find a bathroom, but it's an easy language, I'd learn more. I look vaguely Italian, but I'm really a combo of Native American and White. I got high cheekbones outta the deal.

*need more coffee, brb*; May 24, 2008 10:24 AM
jpsedona said...: apissedant,

you said: "Humphrey ended up carrying only 2.21% of the popular vote, not carrying a single state, and winning 75% of the delegates"

Humphrey did not compete in the primaries but instead focused on the caucuses. He won the majority of the delegates because the rules at that time allowed state party officials to handpick convention delegates. The effect was that the delegates were chosen to by these party insiders to vote for specific candidates. Essentially, 1968 was the last of the smoke-filled-room nominations. (note that a portion of the convention delegates are still hand picked in some states)

It was after 1968 that the Dem party eliminated winner-take-all primaries and instituted proportional allocations; reformed procedures that guaranteed more representation of women & minorities; and instituted the first uncommitted superdelegates.; May 24, 2008 10:58 AM
Skip Dodson said...: It is time for the Supper Delegates to wrap this nomination up. That is the only way Hillary will get the message that her RFK comment was crass, reprehensible, and absolutely unacceptable.

That is the only way she will get the message that it is not OK to renege on her agreement that FL and MI don't count.

That is the only way she will get the message that it is not OK to change the rules in the middle of the game to satisfy her personal ambition and her misguided notion that she is the only Democratic nominee who can win in November.

That is the only way she will get the message that it is not OK to say she is leading in the popular vote which reflects the will of the people when the figures she refers to don't accurately represent the view of the people in all 50 states. The caucus states vastly undercount the number of voters who would vote in a typical primary election and 228K Michigan voters marked uncommitted because Obama wasn't on the ballot. She isn't giving Obama any credit for any of those votes. She is even more disingenuous when in one breath she says "All 50 states should be counted" but then fails to count the votes in each state on a comparable basis.

Some gaffs are excusable--The RFK one isn't. Keith Olberman gives an outstanding comment on her inexcusable comment here.

She doesn't "get it" that her campaign is over. She thinks she is entitled to the nomination. She thinks she should be allowed to win at all costs.

She no longer deserves the respect she has demanded from the SDs by begging them to wait until June 3rd to declare which candidate they support.

Don't let her get away with a half-hearted semi-apology. Terminate her candidacy NOW!; May 24, 2008 10:59 AM
suzihussein22 said...: Hi new posters.

I don't know how I'll catch up this time. The Friday afternoon news dump was...?

rkw-of the 4 you posted-6)Strickland-I've got a lot more research to do now though-I also read the VP possibilities on the new thread.

Ariane-Yep, pitchforks and torches-sounds like a Shrek marathon lol

NYT-politics-Two McCain Moments, Rarely Mentioned-that's an article that should be good ammo in the GE

Here's another article from somewhere-McCain's Triple Play-Hagee, Parsley, and Falwell

Isn't it amazing how the Dem. primary system that worked for WC in now unfair to HRC?

Ariane-1:15 a.m.-Yes, I pray for all our leaders also.

Matt-Thank you for the heads up on the VP thread.

Mike in MD-3:53 a.m.-LMAO

Robert in MN-The popular vote count theory hasn't held water, has it?

Somebody had good oohh point. HRC is the wife of a former Pres. How would she feel if somebody had insuated an assassination threat while he was running? I hope she would at least have had righteous indignation.

Somebody posting @ NYT compared HRC to Galadriel in LOTR. IMO, HRC isn't trying very hard to fight temptation. Is she becoming great and terrible?; May 24, 2008 11:08 AM
suzihussein22 said...: issue alert-being green/energy-

http://www.usnews.com/articles/news/national/2008/05/23/arctic-drilling-wouldnt-cool-high-oil-prices.html

I know this isn't at the top of our minds right now, because we've got to get through the 5 stages of acceptance of HRC's "misspeaking" again, but what's the sense of destroying the environment to delay the end of dependence on oil?; May 24, 2008 11:15 AM
jpsedona said...: Yam,

I see you've revved up your spin machine after Hillary's latest gaffe.

As far as "I just made a few phone calls to DC regarding Bribery Attempt on Alexis Herman, former Labor Secretary".

This lacks all credability as far as the Obama campaign is concerned; if the rumor was tied to Hillary, the majority of voters WOULD believe it. It stems from the underlying belief that she's not fundamentally an honest person. Her RFK explanation about thinking about Ted is also dishonest and covering-up... especially since she had previously said the exact same thing.

As far as Alexis Herman is concerned, there's pretty close to an absolute zero chance that she would be selected as a VP choice by Obama.

However, folks should not be nieve enough to believe that deals aren't struck during elections. How many MSM stories have you heard "What does she want?" when talking about Hillary dropping out of the race. Deal making is what politics is all aout... it happens every day by every political party.; May 24, 2008 11:22 AM
Obamaniac said...: A response to the contention that HRC leads in the popular vote: If one ignores nearly 250,000 people in Michigan who did not vote for Clinton and furthermore assumes that less than half of those people would vote for Obama, she is indeed ahead in the PV. Otherwise, it's yet another empty claim from a candidate who misleads, distorts, postures, and denies. It's the profile of an incipient demogogue. I was once an admirer of HRC, although not a supporter. However, her behavior over the last few months suggests that she is pure politician, a product and perpetuator of a system desperately in need of change. Moreover, it appears that her senses of entitlement and victimization can override her judgment. Who should answer the phone at 3 AM? The one who makes a decision based on principle and not politics.; May 24, 2008 11:27 AM
Gator said...: As for the RFK comment, I defer to the Son.
Anyone who continually repeats it shows total disrespect for both RFK
and RFK Jr.
In a statement, Kennedy Jr. said: “It is clear from the context that Hillary was invoking a familiar political circumstance in order to support her decision to stay in the race through June. I have heard her make this reference before, also citing her husband's 1992 race, both of which were hard fought through June. I understand how highly charged the atmosphere is, but I think it is a mistake for people to take offense.”; May 24, 2008 11:44 AM
greywolf said...: I see Yammie is still at it so I went and picked up a url for a web site that should take all the wind out of Yams sail.

Yam
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/democratic_delegate_count.html

go there and check out the numbers. These are the most accurate when it come to popular vote. Based upon the CURRENT DNC rules Obama leads in all area. Two things about this site, their delegate counts are not up to date however their popular vote numbers are dead on. You will notice that Clinton does not have the popular vote lead unless you add in michingan as voted. So with that said go pound sand some place else and let us people that have the ability to think freely and with logic and reason have our conversations without your stupid antics; May 24, 2008 11:45 AM
Yamaka said...: emma:

BHO is a FAR LEFT Liberal because

1. He wants to give drivers' license to illegal aliens. Hillary will NOT.

2. He wants to lift the cap on income for SS taxation. Hillary will NOT.

These two are just a few to see the heart of a bleeding liberal!

3. In Crime & Punishment his heart is with the villains, not with the victims. Please read his voting record in IL.

4. Clintons are working for a small efficient truthful Govt.

BHO wants to enhance the size of the Govt such that bloated Agencies are the hallmark of good governing.

5. See who are BHO's friends:
Kennedy, Kerry, Dukakis the gold-standards of FAR Liberal Ideology!

6. I hate the FAR Left and FAR Right. FL are socialists and FR are fascists.

FL wants to tax the rich to the brim and feed the rest to the trim. They don't believe in skill enhancement and reward for high achievement. Most of the FL are fuzzy talkers (with some exception) with messy character, judgment and credibility like BHO is.

Keep thinking on these issue.

:-); May 24, 2008 11:45 AM
greywolf said...: Good morning everyone. Hope you all have a great day. I will be out searching for those supers that may or may not have endorsed today. Maybe back in here later this evening. Dont let Yammie get to you. He does seem a bit touched and speaks through his fingers as if there is a complet disconnect mentally as far as the ability to reason and think logically. He appears to have been brain washed and turned into a mindless clintonite. LOL; May 24, 2008 11:49 AM
Anonymous said...: From The New Yorker:

Clinton’s claim that more people have “voted” for her is factual. But her claim to be “ahead” depends entirely on a tally for the Michigan primary that is distinctly North Korean: Clinton, 328,309; Obama, 0. However, if the bulk of the 238,168 Michiganders who voted “uncommitted” are assumed to have been Obama supporters—a reasonable assumption—then Obama leads by every possible reckoning. And if only Florida is included, then Obama leads whether or not those four caucuses are counted.

http://www.newyorker.com/talk/comment/2008/06/02/080602taco_talk_hertzberg

The New Yorker is comparing Hillary Clinton to the North Koreans.; May 24, 2008 11:52 AM
greywolf said...: Clinton is now calling for a complete rework of the primary process as it is unfair to the voting public and does not reflect accurately the popular vote. Because her numbers show her ahead in popular vote where as the current numbers being tracked do not. This woman needs to take a nice long nap for maybe the next few months..she is beginning to sound as one does just before a major mental and emotional breakdown. I hope they help her so because she is actually begining to sound like yammie, and like she believe the crap that is coming out of her mouth.; May 24, 2008 11:56 AM
Vicki in Seattle said...: another fresh day! let's see what the tide brings in today.

enjoy, all! it's a nice spring-like day here.; May 24, 2008 11:57 AM
Yamaka said...: gator:

Thanks for the post.

Most of the BHO supporters are suffering from paranoid hallucinations:

A piece of rope would look like a live snake for them!

I hope and pray that BHO supporters would NOT go and physically hurt Hillary.

They are capable of any harm to any body! They are hysterical and maniacal!!

_______________________________

wolf:

As per line 6 of realclearpolitics which accounts for ALL votes cast:

17,648,299 votes went to Hillary which is 55.9K more than BHO.

______________________________

robert in MN:

I am not familiar with the problems you cite with the Caucuses.

You may give your solutions fairly.

I cited the problems that Hillary supporters faced in Caucuses like TX: Many of the supporters did not go to Caucus because of its lengthy boring time consuming procedure.

That's why she won the Primary in TX, not the Caucus!

Please remember the Popular Vote is for the SDs to consider and vote to the most Electable Candidate to win the GE.

My plea to the SDs has been:

1. She leads in PV as recorded and certified by the States.

2. Her Constituency is broader and deeper to about 55% of the voters:

Most women, working and older Whites and most of Latinos.

He has only most of Blacks, some college kids and some "ill-educated affluent" Whites - to about 45% of the voters.

This % is the average of the margin HRC won in large Primaries like TX PA OH FL WV KY etc. He won most of the small Caucuses, most of which will not vote for a Democrat in the Fall.

I know you may not agree with this logic. But this I tell to the SDs to remember before they vote for the Nominee. You may tell your side of the story.

Ultimately, the Total Delegates will be the criterion used at the Convention in Aug. Not PV for the Nomination. Remember, in this Contest the SDs pick the winner!

:-); May 24, 2008 12:02 PM
Anonymous said...: Greetings friends,

I haven't been posting because the nomination is wrapped up, however I have been reading.

Our friend Yam wnted me to pass on this message because he is down at his clinic - the methadone clinic, where he is not the boss, but rather the best client.

From Yam(ato):

Good morning friends, it is dark and damp here in Houston - at least it is here in my windowless basement where I sit in my soiled underwear divining the future like Nostradamus. Although divining seems to be a curious word since I am a pagan.

Soon the vast swarm of 2 Japanese soldiers will emerge a cave in Burma where the locals, impressed with their advanced age and the antique/collectable nature of their weapons will immediately surrender to them. Then the entire Pacific Rim will be under the control of the Japanese as it should be. Hawaii, of course, will join also with its many EV.

The Darth Clinton will be named emperor.

My sources tell me that The South is also about to rise again! The Great Curmudgeon will return to Arkansas where he will be crowned the Imperial Cracker of Hope.

Then the Clintons will rule the Pacific Rim and the Confederacy - in other words the entire known world since the rest of the world hold caucuses and don't count.

Excuse me friends, I have to go because my brain is spilling out of my lobotomy incision again.

Yam; May 24, 2008 12:12 PM
Anonymous said...: Dave in NC ltns; May 24, 2008 12:26 PM
Anonymous said...: Gator,
I agree on the RFK Gaff; May 24, 2008 12:28 PM
Anonymous said...: Yam,

West Virginia, Kentucky? A large primary? 331,045 was the vote total on the dem side for West Virginia and about 700,000 for Kentucky. Those sure are large primaries... Compared to states like WI? Or how about MO where 800,000 people voted? Maybe you would prefer Georgia or North Carolina where over a million people voted?

Heck, Michigan only had 600k votes due to them being penalized... this from a state with 2x the population of any state mentioned above but lower voter turnout than all of them. But those results were "fair" right?

How is that 55% of the population is her constituency yet she is somehow losing?; May 24, 2008 12:28 PM
Gator said...: Jim said...
ltns
What's this; May 24, 2008 12:33 PM
Anonymous said...: Long Time No See; May 24, 2008 12:35 PM
Anonymous said...: Jim's brain is also spilling out of his lobotomy incision.; May 24, 2008 12:35 PM
Anonymous said...: Hey Jim,

My shorthand is rusty, but good to see you also!

I see you have been making some intellegent comments recently, some that even I cannot argue with.

I appreciate the return to sanity.

However, you are stil wrong.

:)

Peace my friend!; May 24, 2008 12:39 PM
Yamaka said...: dave nc:

Good to see you. I miss your good humor!

Life is fabulous, my friend!

Thank the Lord.

The Nomination is NOT yet over until the Candidate concedes or at the Convention in Aug end. Not before, IMO.

The Party is split nearly half. Which half will win the Nomination, more importantly the GE is the Name of the Game!

Stay tuned. The War Just Begins.

p.s. Yama, people say is an Indian God of Death.
I don't know what Japanese say for Yam or Yakama or Yamaka. Who cares? I just synthesized my Pen Name out of some thin air!; May 24, 2008 12:43 PM
Yamaka said...: "How is that 55% of the population is her constituency yet she is somehow losing?"

dil:

Because of the Caucuses, where many of Hillary's supporters did not go: many women, working and older Americans want to vote confidentially, and not spending too much time. This is not possible in Caucuses.

You average the margin she won from

FL PA MI OH TX WV KY, NJ CA you will get a 10% lead: 55-45 = 10% lead for her.

Hence her support is 55% of the voters at large, IMO.

:-); May 24, 2008 12:49 PM
Anonymous said...: Dave in NC said...
Hey Jim,

I see you have been making some intellegent comments recently, some that even I cannot argue with.

I guess a weak moment, maybe.; May 24, 2008 12:51 PM
Yamaka said...: Folks:

At this minute

Hillary has 17,648,299 votes of ALL votes certified by the States.

She has 55.9K more than BHO.

Her Math is presently:

1972 + 240 + 2212, 2209 being the Real Hurdle including FL, MI.

She can get this 240 our of the outstanding 86 + 238 Ds.

By June 4, her PV lead will be atleast 150K, she will be the bona-fide front-runner in Popular Votes - she will be the Majority Candidate.

Let us see whether the SDs nominate a Majority Candidate or the Minority Candidate. Their names are on the line. They have to live with the consequences for the GE.

Assume BHO - the Minority Candidate - is nominated and they lose big in the Fall! SDs must be whipped in the Public Square.

FAR LEFT Liberal BHO cannot win the GE, against the vastly experienced McCain, period, IMO.

Hillary CAN win the WH.

:-); May 24, 2008 1:00 PM
Anonymous said...: Yam,

I would argue that Obama's campaign was just more organized in the caucus states. His campaign played it smart instead of completely disregarding the "small" states. What about IL, WI, GA, NC, OR, MO, SC. Just because she got her butt handed to her because she tried to play the big state strategy doesn't hamper his caucus victories. It just shows her team's lack of campaigning ideas. I'm not trying to be a pain but she had everything going in... money, name recognition, a former president right behind her. This is perhaps one of the biggest self implosions by a candidacy... ever.; May 24, 2008 1:00 PM
Yamaka said...: OOoooops mistake:

Read as 1972 + 240 = 2212 as per Left Last Box of DCW; May 24, 2008 1:02 PM
suzihussein22 said...: So WC had to "fight" until June for the Dem. nomination?

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9E0CE0DE1F3FF933A15750C0A964958260

I didn't think I remembered WC having to sweat through the process that much.; May 24, 2008 1:04 PM
apissedant said...: jpsedona,
Yes, I completely realize that. In fact that is my point in a nutshell. It was a completely different type of election, and every single argument the Clinton people are using is invalid by that comparison. It is a silly comparison. The count was different, the rules were different, and her current "popular vote" thing wouldn't fly by comparison, even if her math was correct. What's more, it was in NO WAY a democratic nomination process, so again, terrible comparison. It's like talking about the miles per gallon of milk my car gets: IT MAKES NO SENSE! Although milk is finally cheaper than gas, so maybe I should start working on this.; May 24, 2008 1:05 PM
JayW said...: Yam's posts are almost tollerable since Aunt Jean isnt around.

One down, one to go.; May 24, 2008 1:05 PM
Yamaka said...: dil:

Her support demographics are distinctly different from his:

Most women, working and older Whites and most of Latinos.

His is college kids, "ill-educated affluent" Whites and most of Blacks.

Her support is broader and deeper, his is shallow and narrower demographically.

His support mostly is anti-Bill Clinton and anti-women (70%), For Obama is only 30% - just Blacks, IMO.

Therefore, she is weak in Caucuses and strong in large Primaries.

Her strategy has been just correct. She won most Popular Votes as of now. That's what is possible when the Part is divided evenly between the FAR LEFT Liberals Vs Moderate Centrist.

Wait and See how the things unfold.

:-); May 24, 2008 1:08 PM
apissedant said...: EVERYONE!!! YAM IS RIGHT!
It is absolutely silly to expect people to do research and spend their valuable time determining something as meaningless as who will lead the free world. If someone does that, their vote should not count, because they're are just plain stupid to waste all that valuable time.
The proper way to vote is to watch a few 30 second commercials during "American Idol" or "House," and then randomly check a box before you go out for an evening beer. That is the democracy Alexander Hamilton and James Madison obviously had in mind when writing the Federalist Papers.; May 24, 2008 1:08 PM
Yamaka said...: jay:

Seriously, would you rather have some counterpoint argument or stay in a Echo Chamber or in a Choir?

Can you take a punch, and smile?

:-(; May 24, 2008 1:15 PM
apissedant said...: Yam,
Barack Obama didn't sign a pledge to HRC, so he had no need to consult her. He signed a pledge with the Democratic party in order to respect SC, Nevada, NH, and Iowa. When he asked permission, he asked permission to the DNC personnel that were responsible for the pledge, not someone else who signed a pledge as well.
If you want to know if you're allowed to do something at work, you don't consult other employees, you ask your boss. Other employees have no authority over you or the rules of the workplace. COMMON SENSE
Did Bill Clinton call up Bob Dole before he made any campaign moves to ensure that Bob Dole thought it was ok? Did Cheney ask Kerry if he thought it would be ok if he insinuated that we would be attacked by terrorists if we elected Kerry?
Did Clinton call Obama and ask if it was appropriate to talk about the possibility of Obama being murdered, and therefore her need to stay in the race just in case?; May 24, 2008 1:16 PM
suzihussein22 said...: apissedant-Yea! Absolutely! Y will have to fill me in about the "reality" of those shows. Stupid me. I don't want tv. Now, how about that drink?; May 24, 2008 1:31 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: DCW added the two new Georgia add-ons: Obama 1 - Clinton 1

Delegates now needed to secure the nomination:

Obama 55
Clinton 245; May 24, 2008 2:38 PM
Peter said...: I`m not responding to anyone special (or maybe to a racist on this site, I don`t know) but several polls have shown Obama doing a lot better then Clinton among "latinos in California and New Mexico. So, maybe you should check the fact before you spread your lies mr.racist?

I wouls also bet Florida "latinos" support Obama more than they support Clinton. I think Obama is doing quite well among a lot of "latino" voters, but it is important to remember that "latinos" or "hispanic" voters are many different groups and they don`t think the same on every issue...
The fact is that Obama is leading Clinton nationally by big margins and he is doing better than Clinton against McCain in most national polls. And that includes a visible "frustration"-effect with a lot of CLinton-voters. Obamas number would get better when Clinton quits.

I would also guess Clintons favorable-rating would reach new lows after RFK comments, I also think she is unelectable after that comment, both as a president and as a vp.; May 24, 2008 2:40 PM
apissedant said...: Leah,
You are way too slow with your delegate announcements. I am tired of this. This is not some silly Hollywood story you can drag out until next season. Go do your freaking homework, figure out which SDs are going for which candidates, and GET IT OVER ALREADY!; May 24, 2008 2:49 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; May 24, 2008 3:01 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: apissedant - LOL ;)

Three more states will announce ADD-ON delegates this weekend.

Wyoming - today
Hawaii - tomorrow
Alaska - tomorrow

So there are 5 more add-on delegates to be announced.

I am hoping that some more SuperDelegates (other than the add-ons) will endorse Obama this weekend then Obama will need less than 50 by Monday morning :)

H
Obama/Sebelius '08
P
E; May 24, 2008 3:03 PM
tmess2 said...: Arianne, in suggesting that all four candidates (Biden, Edwards, Richardson, and Obama) have the right of review, I am trying to answer the objections of the Clinton people. Despite the data clearly indicating that most of the voters who went with uncommitted were Obama supporters, they want to pretend that they don't know how many of the uncommitted supported each of the four. Requiring the concurrence of all four candidates would make that objection frivolous.

From the Obama perspective, Michigan (as with the other states) allows campaigns to have an appointed representative. This appointed representative is typically a local activist who knows who has been supporting the candidate all along and who is now showing up as a supposed late convert (but is not really solidly committed). The interesting thing is that the rules let the same person serve as the appointed representative of multiple campaigns. Thus, Obama, Richardson, Biden, and Edwards could use the same person (and my hunch says that they would -- and the Obama campaign would be certain of this before they would agree to a proposal like the one that I made). Thus, the legal objections of the Clinton folks would be satisfied without having any factual impact on the result.; May 24, 2008 3:09 PM
tmess2 said...: North Korea is probably not the best analogy for Michigan. Russia probably is.

In the Russian presidential election, you had a free election but only after all of the serious opponents were off of the ballot.

I find the slanderous comments of one of our posters about attempted bribery of the chair of the RBC shows an absurd lack of understanding of the RBC.

Anyone who has ever served on a democratic committee at any level can tell you that the old saying that "I don't belong to an organized party, I'm a Democrat" is true. At every level, you have strong-willed people who don't take orders from anyone.

I have trouble believing that either chair could force the members of the RBC to do anyting. You think Harold Ickes is going to change his vote just because Alexis Hermann says so or that Donna Brazille is going to change her vote just because Alexis Hermann says so.

Though since these posts go to all 50 states, giving my state long-arm jurisdiction over a certain poster, if folks in the Obama campaign need a lawyer to file a libel suit against a certain poster and want to file it in Missouri, my services are available.; May 24, 2008 3:16 PM
Pacaguy said...: After the "assassination" comment yesterday there is no way that she should be considered for VP. You have to wonder how her mind works. She is so desperate to win you have to wonder if Obama would be safe if she were one heartbeat from the presidency.; May 24, 2008 4:02 PM
Yamaka said...: "Did Clinton call Obama and ask if it was appropriate to talk about the possibility of Obama being murdered, and therefore her need to stay in the race just in case?"

apis:

I don't need to answer to your question like this.

My point is BHO did not have any permission from anybody to violate the Agreement he signed. This issue is one of the many to be adjudicated at the RBC. Wait and see how the ruling goes.

The fact remains that HRC did not violate the Agreement, BHO did, period.
________________________________

peter:

In 2004, till the very end various polls suggested Kerry winning! What happened?

The same thing is true in the case of Mondale and Dukakis, who all hit the dust after the elections.

Polls will be all over the lot between now and Nov.

I read election results, and not some polls.

_____________________________

Folks:

1. Donna Brazile said 3 months ago, "if SDs going to call this Nomination, then I will quit"

Why is she attending the RBC meeting?

2. As per this site, BHO is spending 3:1 on attracting SDs to his side.

Is this not a form of bribery?

Go ahead and sue all the posts that don't agree with your point of view.

Washington DC is buzzing with lots and lots of information - some may be true, some many not be true. During political season, it is impossible to discern the validity of anything, including the declaration of any SD.

SDs can change their declaration many times over up until the Convention!

Folks, it's not over until One candidate concedes or at the Convention!

__________________________________

BHO is the least vetted, least experienced and the most risky Minority Candidate to be fielded for the General Election against McCain, who is vastly experienced National Hero.; May 24, 2008 4:03 PM
rkw said...: Geez Yam, give it a rest.

I'm not going to call you delusional. I have no idea as to your actual mental state or motives. I can say that you are repetitive and relentless. But your ideas aren't selling here, because they mostly have no basis in reality.

I could make a case that the football team with the most total yards or the baseball team with the most hits ought to be declared the winner. However, it turns out that points and runs are the metrics in those contests. My case would sound compelling. Clearly the team with most yards is the superior team showing more ability in the truly valuable skills in football - making yards on offense and holding down the other team on defense.

But for some reason, I suspect that if I really tried to make that argument I would be laughed off the blog.

Popular vote means something just like total yards mean something. However, popular vote isn't the measure in either a nominating contest or a presidential general election. Popular vote, like total yards, is a statistic that can be used to predict, explain or otherwise analyze the results of a contest. However, they don't tell you the winner.

Delegates pick nominees. Electors pick presidents.

You may not like the rules, but they are the rules. And if you change the rules in midstream, that is generally called cheating. If you stand on the sidelines yelling at everyone that the contest is really about total yards rather than points on the scoreboard, then it seems likely you'll be ignored, ridiculed or tossed out of the stadium.

If you want to change the rules for next time around, then get after it and try to get them changed. But for now, delegates are the scorecard and your gal is losing.

She needs to find a way to get off the field with her head held high. Fighting to win all the way to the end can be honorable, but suggesting a mechanism to cheat your way into the victory doesn't help you leave the field with your head held high.; May 24, 2008 4:14 PM
Richard said...: I wonder if Yamaka thinks repeating the same ridiculous things over and over again will make them true...

rkw: your argument is cogent and your analogy apt. Thanks for posting!; May 24, 2008 4:31 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; May 24, 2008 4:53 PM
Mike in Maryland said...: Above, someone was Yammering about [Clinton's] support demographics are distinctly different from his:

Most women, working and older Whites and most of Latinos.

The latest Gallop poll, released in the last week, shows:

"Obama leads or ties Clinton among women, Easterners, whites, adults with no college education, and Hispanics, with the New York senator’s support now below 50 percent in each group, according to Gallup. Both are backed by 47 percent of white voters surveyed, and Obama is essentially tied with Clinton – 47 percent to 46 percent – among Democrats whose education level is a high school diploma or less."

CNN has the full article from which the above quote was taken on their Political Ticker, at:
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/05/20/poll-obama-gaining-support-with-key-clinton-demographics/
http://tinyurl.com/6p4p6m

Mike; May 24, 2008 4:55 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: The latest polls in California showing Obama beating McCain by a BIGGER MARGIN than Clinton is!

Obama will not have any trouble getting all the blue states and making some of the other states blue ;); May 24, 2008 4:58 PM
jpsedona said...: Does anyone have a ready source for total registered democrates by state. I can't find this anywhere.

I am interested in applying the percentages in all the contests to the total registered Dem voters in those states. It's just an exercise, but I want to see how close the popular vote is based on total registered dems.

My isea is that there is always less than 100% participation; the people who vote in each state represent the total electorate. So, applying the percenatges across all registered Dems would normalize the results in caucus & primary states. This can also be applied to the unreported caucus states.; May 24, 2008 5:11 PM
Yamaka said...: richard & rkw:

I am saying that SDs would like to look at the popular votes to have some idea of the relative popularity of the Candidates.

Some may not need that information, others will need.

I agree at the Convention, final decision made on Total Delegates.

Why you guys want to throw the baby with the bathwater?

__________________________________

RodentinMD:

If some poll is the way to go, then Mondale, Dukakis and Kerry would have been in the WH.

These polls have no merit at this point. Follow the history.

The Democratic Party needs to field the strongest Candidate - a Majority Candidate - to win the WH against a formidable Opponent.

A Lightweight Novice cannot take on a Heavyweight Champion!

FAR LEFT Liberal has not won the WH in the past 30 years.

Bill Clinton (& his sparring partner Hillary) is the only two term President Dems have since FDR of last Century!

_____________________________________

SDs: Think hard and act fast - Nominate the Majority Candidate to win the WH. Make Change Possible. Elect the First Woman POTUS
_________________________________

Folks:

There are some Ambulance Chasers in this site try to sue people for their free speech and political expressions!

Let them NOT make a hay out of the burning house!

Roberts's Court will stand by all and any free speech regarding politics and campaign.

Let them NOT try to intimidate free expression of opinions & politics.; May 24, 2008 5:46 PM
jpsedona said...: Yam,

How's that math working for you/

When is Hillary going to reverse the SD endorsements for Obama; or at least stop the bleeding???

Since last Saturday:

Obama Endorsements:

5/17 Greg Pecoraro (MD)
5/17 Mark Parkinson (KS)
5/17 Federico Pena (CO)
5/18 William Quay Hays (CA)
5/18 Lou Paulson (CA)
5/19 Dwight Pelz (WA)
5/19 Robert Byrd (WV)
5/19 Larry Gates (KS)
5/19 Blake Johnson (AK)
5/19 Cindy Spanyers (AK)
5/20 Madeleine Bordallo (GU) ** 1/2 vote
5/20 Scott Brennan (IA)
5/21 Joe Courtney (CT)
5/21 Wayne Dowdy (MS)
5/23 Jim Costa (CA)
5/23 Dennis Cardoza (CA) *** switch from Clinton to Obama
5/23 Jenny Greenleaf (OR)
5/24 Stephen Leeds (GA)

TOTAL: +17.5

Clinton Endorsements:
5/18 Doggett (CA)
5/18 Dario Frommer (CA)
5/18 Dora Rubio (CA)
5/20 Martha Coakley (MA)
5/21 William Bashein (OH)
5/22 Pilar Lujan (GU) ** 1/2 vote
5/24 Verna Cleveland (GA)

Lost Endorsements:
5/23 Dennis Cardoza (CA) ** -1

TOTAL: +5.5

More than three to one for Obama. Is that the way the math is supposed to work? Is that the plan? Trying to lure Obama into a false sense of security? When does the bleeding stop?; May 24, 2008 5:57 PM
Meg said...: Yam:

Your metaphors are a hoot!! What does it mean when you make hay out of the burning house? If the house is burning, how can you make anything out of it?

Anyway, you can be sure of one thing. Nobody wants you to be intimidated and stop expressing yourself. Without you, there would be no reason to share so much factual information, which in turn, adds to the understanding of the readers of this blog. I have learned a great deal as I watch people try to convince you that you are totally wacko.; May 24, 2008 5:58 PM
ed iglehart said...: Since we just had a Will Rodgers joke, this seems appropriate: Will Rodgers Reprise From my favourite financial columnist...

IF STUPIDITY GOT US INTO THIS MESS, THEN WHY CAN'T it get us out?"
..
That ingenuous but intriguing query was posed by the stand-up cowboy humorist Will Rogers, whose aw-shucks persona masked a devastatingly sardonic wit.
..It was he, you may recall, who remarked that Alexander Hamilton started the U.S. Treasury with nothing, "and that was the closest the country ever came to breaking even." And who reckoned that "an economist's guess is liable to be as good as anybody else's." And who defined diplomacy as "the art of saying 'nice doggie' until you can find a rock." And who confessed, "I am not a member of any organized political party; I am a Democrat." And who insisted, "I don't know jokes; I just watch the government and report the facts."
..
Will, lest you get the wrong impression from this random sampling, was by no means all acid and vinegar. He had a soft spot for young people anxious about making the right choice of a profession, as evidenced by this thoughtful piece of advice: "Make crime pay. Become a lawyer."
....Ah well, rather than brooding over the failings of our commander-in-chief and chosen representatives, let us look on the bright side, as Will urged us to do by pointing out how lucky we are that "we don't get all the government we pay for."

Give stupidity a chance!
;-)
ed; May 24, 2008 5:59 PM
jpsedona said...: Yam,

you said: "I am saying that SDs would like to look at the popular votes to have some idea of the relative popularity of the Candidates."

A strategy that looks at a candidate's poplarity using nomination contests might work if only Dems voted in the GE. Nothing will drive more votes to the Repubs than Hillary Clinton.; May 24, 2008 6:02 PM
jpsedona said...: Emma,

Yam could be talking about the three little pigs... you know, "I'll huff and I'll puff and I'll blow your White House down"...; May 24, 2008 6:04 PM
jpsedona said...: Ed,

Will Rogers, as you probably know was a life long Democrat. Here are three of my favorites:

"Democrats never agree on anything, that's why they're Democrats. If they agreed with each other, they would be Republicans"

"I am not a member of any organized political party. I am a Democrat."

"The difference between a Republican and a Democrat is the Democrat is a cannibal they have to live off each other, while the Republicans, why, they live off the Democrats."; May 24, 2008 6:09 PM
Mike in Maryland said...: To those tracking the potential Puerto Rican primary outcome, here's a link to a Daily Kos column that discusses the April poll showing Senator Clinton with a 13% lead, and why that poll, and events since that poll, make the poll questionable at the least:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/5/21/75834/3293/165/519524
http://tinyurl.com/592edd

Mike; May 24, 2008 6:20 PM
Clemens said...: not my work but very funny. It was posted on another board I read

A Hypothetical Speech by Vice Presidential Candidate Clinton

"Thank you for welcoming me here tonight. I know that we are all proud of Barack, who has risen from humble beginnings to such heights–great heights, perilous heights. As you may know, 30% of serious accidents occur from a height of 10 feet or above.

And so we now set out together on our journey–a journey of hope, a journey of change, and yes, a journey of great demands. For the Presidency places great demands on all of those who hold the office–we have seen how amazingly quickly it can age people in the poignant photographs of Franklin D. Roosevelt, who was succeeded by Harry S. Truman while still in office.

In this journey, we will put forward our shared goals–of expanded health coverage, against the unexpected and often fatal illnesses that can rob even those citizens that seem the healthiest of their ability to work, even of their lives.

Of protection against unexpected attack on our country, often aimed at those who are placed in the most critical positions to lead this nation. Of conservation of our precious energy resources, without which, even the most powerful of us can wind up stranded in a desert motorcade, without food, water, or wireless reception to contact others for help. Of greater support for culture and the arts–beginning with increased support for our very own Ford’s Theatre here in Washington, DC.

Many of you will hear Barack speak later today, from a platform in Norman, Oklahoma–a humble platform, a rickety platform, a platform susceptible to Norman’s notoriously strong and unexpected winds. There–god willing–he will tell you of what we hope to accomplish. He will speak of the unity that he and I wish to achieve for this nation, just as Andrew Johnson and Lincoln strove for such national unity. And he will tell you of our wish for change.

Change. An important word. None of us can know the changes that will occur in our lives. None of us can predict what momentous events, what disasters may befall us. A simple damaged left engine turbine stabilizer in a campaign plane. A frayed electrical line dangling, unseen, from a remote access satellite hookup van. A safe, falling, unexpectedly, to the sidewalk from the 8th floor of the Hotel Aldion in Norman, Oklahoma.

And so, we must dedicate ourselves, consecrate ourselves, to reach these most important national objectives today–while we still can. And like Kennedy, Garfield, McKinley, and other Presidents before him, we know that Barack will strive to achieve these goals–in the face of the awesome unknowns that lay before us all.

Thank you."; May 24, 2008 6:21 PM
Anonymous said...: Yam,

I don't think most here are asking you to quit expressing your opinions. Your views are a breath of fresh air when you don't include any abhorrence or stereotypes. Sometimes I admit your arguments are quite irrational to me, but I do admire your constancy and determination.

The world of blogging needs people like you. Think of yourself as the captain of the ship.; May 24, 2008 6:21 PM
Yamaka said...: jp:

Since you asked I am doing it again.

Hillary got 17,648,299 votes from ALL polled and certified. This is 55.9K more than BHO's (line 6 of realclearpolitics.com)

Her Math is: (as per Left Last Box of DCW)

1973 + 240 = 2213; 2209 being the Real Hurdle.

We have 18 + 86 + 236 SDs still left to be claimed.

I am hoping that whatever attraction BHO has, most of SDs have already moved to the Suicidal Sect. Of the remaining 240 TDs can be counted for Hillary.

They ARE Hillary Leaner, IMO.

Hope is still alive and well.

I am not bothered much about a few movement here and there. She needs just 240, not more.
______________________________
Your sayings about Dems and Reps are right on the money, IMO.

Had we followed Reps Methodology in this Primary, Hillary would have clinched the presumptive Nominee status soon after TX, as McCain did.

This goes back to my argument that the Rules and Procedures the Dems have are just artificial facades and veneers created by the confused brains of the DNC! They don't truly measure the real strength of the Candidate in the Country.

Since the Reps Methodology closely follows the Methodology of the GE, we must follow them on this issue, no matter what. That's simply logical. I may not fully agree with the GE Methodology, but it is the only one relevant to the General Election in 2008.

Ooops, you are a Right Leaning person! I assumed your are a Dem!!

:-); May 24, 2008 6:31 PM
suzihussein22 said...: jpsedona- Yahoo's political dashboard shows total registered voters. Maybe that's a start.

http://news.yahoo.com/election/2008/dashboard

Maybe Democratic.org has the specific numbers. I really believe we'll have up to 75% participation this time.

ed iglehart-funny-I was just thinking about you today across the pond when I found some Celtic music on Youtube. I was chairdancing to it. :); May 24, 2008 6:41 PM
jpsedona said...: Pablo,

You suggested to yam that he think of himself as "captain of the ship".

This is an appropriate position of respect for such a staunch defender of truth, justice and the Socialist way.

However, I would point out:

Cheerleading does not necessarily qulaify one to an excutive position., though Hillary has been able to cpiatlize in a such a fashion.

But beware, captaining the SS Clinton is fraught with potential disaster. How can comparisons to the Titanic & Exxon Valdez can not be ignored. An occassional iceburg can sink any campaign.

I am sure Yam is up to the honor. (Should we mention to him that the SS Clinton isn't a submarine?); May 24, 2008 6:42 PM
Yamaka said...: pablo:

Thanks for some kind words.

I am very passionate about Breaking Down the Glass Ceiling that the Macho Men created over women in the past 50,000 years.

I want to give hope to my young daughter who works very hard to claw up the ladder of power and prosperity.

Hillary's Win will be truly historical.

But BHO's will NOT, IMO.

Because he did not come from the glorious Civil Right Movement of Black America! His forefathers do NOT bear the scars of slavery, discrimination, segregation and the attendant misery.

BHO lived most part in the cool comfort of a middle class White household!

He is just eating Jesse Jacksons' lunch, IMO. That's not fair.

:-); May 24, 2008 6:44 PM
jpsedona said...: Yam,

when you say "Since the Reps Methodology closely follows the Methodology of the GE, we must follow them on this issue, no matter what"...

are you saying the Republicans are the party of ideas?; May 24, 2008 6:46 PM
jpsedona said...: softspoken22 ,

Thank you for the reply. Unfortunately, the Yahoo dashboard identifies total registered voters (for some states) but I am looking for the Dem registration numbers.; May 24, 2008 6:54 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA

Obama / Sebelius '08; May 24, 2008 7:09 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Another one for OBAMA!

Wyoming Add-on is state Rep. W. Patrick Goggles, who is an Obama supporter.

Total delegates needed to win:

Obama 54
Clinton 245; May 24, 2008 7:16 PM
Yamaka said...: "are you saying the Republicans are the party of ideas?"

lol

jp:

They just don't complicate life unnecessarily in this particular case!

Dems just made a mess of this "Proportional" Methodology.

I don't say Republicans are the party of ideas! They are good followers!!

They just follow the GE Methodology, that's it!

:-); May 24, 2008 7:28 PM
Yamaka said...: The Real Hurdle is 2209.

NOT 2025!

After RBC it will be closer to 2209, not 2025.

"OOOOssabammma...OOObama..mamama"

"Seb...Who?"; May 24, 2008 7:31 PM
jpsedona said...: Yam,

Since you like the 'simple Republican party'...

With a small (for you) $25,000 donation plus a $1,000 per person fee, you can join McCain in Phoenix on Tuesday along with President Bush at a VIP reception.; May 24, 2008 7:34 PM
JayW said...: Yam...

You post on here all day and night, every day. I think this site has consumed your life and has really eaten away your sense of reality.

For your own sake... go out and try to make a friend or two. Have a real discussion rather than typing the same thing over and over. Get out of the house. Even crazy cat lady Aunt Jean takes a break now and again.; May 24, 2008 7:52 PM
gpcote said...: Yam I would suggest that you register under a new user name!!; May 24, 2008 8:15 PM
Mike in Maryland said...: Someone above Yammered "They [the Republicants] just don't complicate life . . . ."

To the Yammerer -

If you haven't yet found out, life can be complicated. And since life is complicated, sometimes you have to have non-simplistic solution to make life fair for everyone.

How much does the Republicant party care about making life fair for anyone not in Big Business, especially the Big Business of the Military-Industrial complex? Less than they care about a gnat's ass.

And if you tried to educate yourself, you would learn that the Democratic rules set up for the primaries are not as complicated as a lot of people like to make them.

Basically the rules state how many DELEGATES will be allowed to go the Democratic National Convention, how the states choose those DELEGATES, and whichever candidate gets the majority of DELEGATES at the convention wins the nomination. The rules don't discuss how many votes a candidate wins in states except in discussing how many DELEGATES such votes cause to accrue to a specific candidate. After that, it's nothing but DELEGATES.

Of course, simple minds like simple solutions. However, sometimes simple minds devise Rube Goldberg-type complicated solutions that don't solve the problem in any way, shape or form, or only in the manner they alone (in their hallucinations) think is 'fair' (but only in the Faux News 'Fair and Balanced' manner of speaking).

Mike; May 24, 2008 8:18 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; May 24, 2008 8:29 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Yamaka said: "The Real Hurdle is 2209.
NOT 2025!
After RBC it will be closer to 2209, not 2025."
________________

The REAL Hurdle NOW is 2025

the RBC meeting has not taken place yet. You don't know what the number 'may be' in the future.

The REAL NUMBER NOW IS 2025.

If you would stick to the facts every now and again you wouldn't look so silly ;)

OBAMA / SEBELIUS '08

Yakama - if you don't know who Sebelius is by now then you need to learn how to do a search on wikipedia.org

OBAMA / SEBELIUS '08

Total delegates to secure the nomination as of now under the current DNC rules:

OBAMA 54
Clinton 245

.; May 24, 2008 8:47 PM
Gator said...: Everyone knows it will not be 2209and not 2025.
The winner will determined by the new power brokers, the Super Delegates.
The longer they hold out, the more power they hold.
The nominee and VP will be determined by a few, so you all are spinning your wheels.; May 24, 2008 8:55 PM
jpsedona said...: Mike,

lol... if you think the Democratic delegate process is not complicated, you could get network job to explain it to us simple folk.

Actually, what you say is generally correct. But the devil is in the details.

If you've never read the DNC rules for delegate selection, it's a fun read.

This is a PDF document: 2008 Delegate Selection Rules

For a brief history of some of the rule changes Delegate rule change summary

The DNC rules are then supplemented by their delegate allocations (how many delegates each state gets) and the individual state Dem party rules. These state rules allow open primaries, closed primaries, caucuses, district conventions, state conventions, central party delegate additions, etc.

Some of more important recent changes was the elimination of the winner reward process.; May 24, 2008 8:58 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: A little ditty to sing along to:

Yama yama yamakA
We know you really want ObamA
Come on now and just say 'HillarY
ain't for mE'
Obama will be a great President, there is room for everyone under the Obama tent!

ALL ABOARD!!!
The Obama train is heading out for 1600 Pennsylvania Ave (we'll be dropping the Clintons off in Arkansas on the way...)

H
Obama/Sebelius '08
P
E; May 24, 2008 8:59 PM
apissedant said...: Gator,
what do you think they base these decisions on? You think they just flip a coin? You think that come November, they might be looking to pick up as many votes as possible and win the election? You think this might play into their choices? So what we are discussing, is the people we think would best accomplish this goal. It's like fantasy football for nerds.; May 24, 2008 9:00 PM
Gator said...: apissedant said...
Gator,
what do you think they base these decisions on? You think they just flip a coin?

Their re-election chances come into play and what candidate would help them. Self preservation is far more important to most of them than the good of the voter.
Many others hold no elected office and are concerned with getting a sweet position or some other payola.; May 24, 2008 9:13 PM

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