Democratic Convention Watch: Open Thread

Tuesday, April 01, 2008

Open Thread

WE'VE MOVED! Democratic Convention Watch is now at http://www.DemocraticConventionWatch.com

Who's going to win, who has a better chance against McCain, or whatever else is on your mind.

We have decided to stop allowing anonymous comments. Not because we don't like reading what people have to say but because Blogger has introduced a new "feature" that makes you go to a second page when the number of comments go over 200.

It's very easy to set up a Google account so that you can continue commenting.

And please be excellent to one another. We do not accept name calling or any attacks on our commenters. Any objectionable comments will be deleted. Try to be civil.

Thanks!

Previous Open Thread here
New Open Thread here

4317 comments:

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jpsedona said...: Aunt Jean,

After reading many of your posts regarding age & wisdom, I've come to the conclusion that ignorance has no age limit.; May 19, 2008 3:30 PM
jean said...: Leah,
Being happy about Byrd is not good.
jean; May 19, 2008 3:31 PM
Aunt Jean said...: amot I wasn't trying to insult you about the strange bird but here in america it means strange bird but I tell people that all the time and I'm not trying to insult them either. Please except my apology.I also would like to say I think you should have your beliefs what ever they may be. I just don't believe that I should have to believe the way you do. Jean; May 19, 2008 3:33 PM
RobH said...: Just like shooting fish in a barrel. Thanks, Jean.; May 19, 2008 3:34 PM
Aunt Jean said...: ipsedona I totally agree I read it all the time. lol Jean; May 19, 2008 3:34 PM
Aunt Jean said...: ariene I believe that is how you spell your name if not excuse me. But just wanted to say I totally disagree that older people are more likely to be racist. It's not so much that as it's the fact that some people think that they should have special treatment. Everyone is an American and that is what they want people to be treated as not special. All it does is cause resentment. Jean; May 19, 2008 3:38 PM
UUbuntu said...: Folks, if all you know of Sen. Byrd's 90 years on this planet in the U.S. Senate is of his KKK ties from over 50 years ago, then you are sadly underinformed.; May 19, 2008 3:41 PM
RobH said...: Perhaps more accurately, Jean, you might have written:

"Being happy is not good."

Honestly, as I've observed this thread, there is a common feature for the most ardent HRC supporters.

You're not happy. Or maybe, more accurately you see the glass as half empty. Yeah, that's the ticket:

Generally speaking (IMO) Obama supporters see the glass as half full, Clinton supporters see it as half empty.

Yep, that's it, alright.

Every time another state goes to your opponent, it is to be dismissed, disparaged, doesn't mean much. Every time a significant endorsement goes to your opponent, it is to be dismissed, they're 'bad', somehow.

Look at the FACTS! The vast majority of your elected representatives (Govs, Sens, Reps)
have chosen your opponent. Are they all wrong, worthless, simple?; May 19, 2008 3:42 PM
RobH said...: Finally Jean,

Had Robert Byrd endorsed HRC, would we have seen a post from you declaring it "not a very worthwhile endorsement"? I'm guessing it's more likely we would have heard what a "significant" endorsement it was.

Just a guess, though.; May 19, 2008 3:48 PM
Aunt Jean said...: robh I also see the glass as half full. I guess they are scared to support Hillary I really don't know what the reason is. But I do know this there has been a lot of black SD's voting for him lately. There have also been a couple that has not stated that they will endorse, vote, or anything else in their words that someone else said that they were backing Obama [were they?] I do believe that you need to look at the gov. backing obama and Hillary if you count flo. there is only 2 between them.Jean; May 19, 2008 3:51 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Robh very seldom do I say anything about Hillary's SD's to me it's not that important until the convention.Other than when someone says he got this number when he got anough number. Jean; May 19, 2008 3:54 PM
jpsedona said...: RobH,

you said: "Generally speaking (IMO) Obama supporters see the glass as half full, Clinton supporters see it as half empty"

I have to state that I strongly disagree. In terms of Hillary's campaign, she would say;

= We's have more water than Obama if we used a smaller glass.

= All the water droplets in the glass need to be counted.

= My glass is decidely cleaner looking than my opponent's.

= How do we even know that my opponents glass contains water?

= If looking at glass makes you thirsty, why wait for the glass to be full.

= Maybe we should try mugs or coffee cups instead.

= If you had looked at my glass before the water started evaporating, I had more water than he did.; May 19, 2008 3:55 PM
UUbuntu said...: To RobH -- A losing politician and personal friend once said to my family: "Politics is not about winning and losing. It's about caring and changing"

In this presidential primary season, my preferred candidate (Hillary Clinton) lost. But her message and her drive for better government will continue in this election season -- taken up by the candidacy of Barack Obama.

As long as we (Clinton supporters AND Obama supporters) see this process as about winning and losing, we'll never understand the possibilities of good government. We will always be in alternating states of elation and resentment -- neither state of which is conducive to teamwork and problem solving.; May 19, 2008 3:56 PM
jean said...: robh,
No. I live in California now, but have relatives in WV and my father came from there. I would not say great for Hillary. His state voted for her, he didn't support her, as I said, to help clear it all before he died. He is not a stupid man, it just looks good. How do you think he lasted so long.
New politics with Obama. Yea, right.
I do believe the cup is half full.
I have patience. It is called a learning curve.
jean; May 19, 2008 3:57 PM
jpsedona said...: Tyler,

I would most respectfully disagree with your family friend. Politics and campaigning is all about winning and losing. Governance (or Legislating) is about caring & change. What made Bill successful was that he could do both.; May 19, 2008 4:02 PM
jean said...: jpsedona
I think the interpretation is for the difference between Dems and Rep.

Let me say that is what I think it should be.

The mud-slinging in this race is because of the unprecidated (is that spelled correctly)race that we are in now for the Dems. While there has always been some, I think this is different and will be shown in history.

There is more passion in this race than any other.

I think it is cool, but the name calling is stupid.
jean; May 19, 2008 4:12 PM
Aunt Jean said...: ipsedona sounds like you are jealous of us. That was a silly statement LOOL LOL LOL LOL LOL Jean; May 19, 2008 4:17 PM
JayW said...: jpsedona said... @ May 19, 2008 3:30 PM

Aunt Jean,

After reading many of your posts regarding age & wisdom, I've come to the conclusion that ignorance has no age limit.
__________________________

VERY WELL SAID!
I couldnt agree more.; May 19, 2008 4:20 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Jayw are you talking bad about yourself again ta ta ta. LOL LOL LOL Jean; May 19, 2008 4:22 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Jayw Ipsedona was really talking about himself and you just agreed with him how funny.Thanks for the laugh. LOL LOL Jean; May 19, 2008 4:24 PM
jean said...: Did Stupid just show up???; May 19, 2008 4:29 PM
jean said...: Incorrect.
Did stupid just try to show up????; May 19, 2008 4:30 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Jean I think you might be right. Jean; May 19, 2008 4:32 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: To Everyone on this thread:

I hope ya'll have noticed that for 3 days now there has been someone on this thread that has been having a 'one-way' conversion directed at me. As of THREE days ago I stopped responding to said person, in other words I have put them on ignore - I also announced my doing so THREE days ago. So, I just wanted to let everyone know that although I have not been replying to those specific comments I do not agree with those particular comments and I will continue to not respond to them in the future. So, if this continues I would appreciate someone pointing that fact out every once and awhile ;)
______

Also, I have not commented on the Byrd endorsement - I have been confused with some other poster.
______

RobH - Your post of May 19, 2008 3:55 PM is hillarous! Thanks for posting that!

OBAMA '08
.; May 19, 2008 4:33 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Jayw there you go calling yourself ugly names again do you have a problem with that? It seems like you do it to yourself all the time LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL Jean; May 19, 2008 4:35 PM
RobH said...: jpsedona @3:55,

Very creative, thank you. You had me going with your initial strong disagreement.

Anyway, I'm no comedian, but I bet there's one in there somewhere about "counting teardrops" and water from a water rifle....; May 19, 2008 4:35 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Leah please be quite for awhile you are boring Jean; May 19, 2008 4:36 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Someone is trying to BUY votes!

Superdelegates Turned Down $1 Million Offer From Clinton Donor

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/05/19/superdelegates-turned-dow_n_102450.html

Obama '08
.; May 19, 2008 4:37 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Leah they also say the truth hurts.Some people have a hard time hearing the truth about themselves. I wonder who that could be not you surely. LOL LOL Jean; May 19, 2008 4:38 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Leah now that is going just a lot to far get real and quit putting that trash on here.That's not uncommon for you though. Jean; May 19, 2008 4:40 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Report: Patti Solis Doyle, Former Clinton Campaign Manager, Considering Job With Obama

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0508/10450.html

OBAMA '08
.; May 19, 2008 4:40 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Leah To EVERYONE ON THIS TREAD what you said sounded so mature LOL LOL Jean; May 19, 2008 4:42 PM
JayW said...: Aunt Jean...

I understand that you are all upset that your precious HRC has NO CHANCE of getting the nomination.

Well, since you wont vote for Obama... will you leave this website and stop posting once HRC finally drops out? I wouldnt see any reason for you to stick around after that.

It would give us all great joy to know that there will actually be an end-date to having to see your worthless posts.

You and HRC can run and hide together... safe from all the sniper fire.; May 19, 2008 4:43 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Looks like Obama picked up TWO more SDs:

DNC Blake Johnson (AK) and DNC Cindy Spanyers (AK) for Obama

Today's total so far:

Obama 5
Clinton 0; May 19, 2008 4:44 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Jayw you need to go home and have your mama wash your mouth out with soap and to learn you manners she did a poor job.But she probable did the best she could with someone like you. Jean; May 19, 2008 4:45 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Leah that's ok yesterday Hillary got 3 Obama got 2; May 19, 2008 4:49 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Jayw hey little boy no I'm here to stay LOL LOL LOL You still haven't made it home for your mama to wash your mouth out? Jean; May 19, 2008 4:51 PM
Hippolytus said...: RobH,
Obama now leads in DNC folks, too!; May 19, 2008 4:56 PM
jean said...: aunt jean
Ignore him.
jean; May 19, 2008 4:56 PM
RobH said...: Hey Aunt Jean,

I've been real nice to you, but PLEASE knock it off now w/ Leah.

She's chosen not to answer you, she's made it clear, and it's just unpleasant for you to keep going after her (IMO only.)

But please, if you value my posture towards you, and I think maybe you might, can you please just leave it alone?

Thanks.; May 19, 2008 4:57 PM
Booby said...: Hey, speaking of flip-floppers,someone just flipped the Clinton crowd the Byrd.; May 19, 2008 4:58 PM
jean said...: aunt jean,
leah is correct in her report on the huffington post.
you know better.
jean; May 19, 2008 5:00 PM
JayW said...: This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.; May 19, 2008 5:00 PM
JayW said...: "Warren Buffet, a longtime friend of both Hillary and Bill Clinton, told CNN Friday Barack Obama would be his choice for the next President of the United States."; May 19, 2008 5:03 PM
JayW said...: "Obama holds a 16-point lead over Sen. Hillary Clinton in Gallup’s latest daily tracking poll released Monday. He has the support of 55 percent of Democratic and Democratic-leaning voters while Clinton’s support is at 39 percent.

Previously, Obama’s largest lead over Clinton was 11 percentage points, in daily tracking polls conducted in mid-May and mid-April, according to Gallup. Prior to John Edwards’s exit from the Democratic nomination race, Clinton held a 20-point lead over Obama in mid-January."; May 19, 2008 5:05 PM
Martin said...: Who do we contact if we suspect someone has created duplicate accounts in a lame effort to show "support" for her own arguments? I'd like to see this person get banned from posting here if that's the case.

Said person is also a terribe poster in general, but that's her prerogative.; May 19, 2008 5:11 PM
jpsedona said...: Wow, considering Hillary's background with Walmart I'm surprised she didn't know there was a sale on superdelegates.; May 19, 2008 5:13 PM
Anonymous said...: JayW said...
Aunt Jean...

Spoken like a true spinster sitting at home with a house full of cats. No wonder your family abandoned you.

JayW,
Your posts suggest severe past head trauma,; May 19, 2008 5:17 PM
Aunt Jean said...: robh if she wouldn't post trash I would leave her alone but I'm tired of it. She has one choose quit doing or I will be going to matt and oreo with it. I've asked her politely to stop and she is still doing it. I guess that you think that is alright well I don't.Jean; May 19, 2008 5:20 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Some obama supporters all they can do is make up LIES I guess it's to make themselves feel better. Jean; May 19, 2008 5:22 PM
Ariane said...: Hey Aunt Jean, I was just talking from my own observation that it seemed to me like I have met more elderly people than young people who tend to have more stereotypical views about other races, because of how they were raised in differnt times when there was more segregation and blatant discrimination, and people were less likely to have the experience of interacting with people of a different race on an equal basis. Maybe my experience has been different than yours.

I did not mean to suggest that I see any older person and automatically think they are a racist. That would mean I was being prejudiced against older people. I try to take people as they come.
After all,the older age group includes white people who were fighting for African Americans' civil rights back in the 60s and others who may have spoke out in some way. And other people may have held racist views at one time but over the years they have expanded their views and changed their mind.; May 19, 2008 5:22 PM
Vicki in Seattle said...: This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.; May 19, 2008 5:24 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Jean the only place they go to is the huffington post I'm sorry but it's a rag paper. I don't believe anything they say. Jean; May 19, 2008 5:27 PM
jpsedona said...: Aunt Jean,

you said: "robh if she wouldn't post trash I would leave her alone but I'm tired of it. She has one choose quit doing or I will be going to matt and oreo with it. I've asked her politely to stop and she is still doing it. I guess that you think that is alright well I don't.Jean"

As far as your claim of being polite... well, let's not go back to manners, rudeness and politeness. It's not a discussion you'll win...

What exactly has Leah posted that's trash in the last few days?; May 19, 2008 5:27 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Ack!
My darn computer is acting up so I missed most of it but Senator Obama is in Crow Agency, MT. The Indian Chief gave him gifts for 'his wives and two daughters!' Hahahaha.... Senator Obama said 'thank you but I have only one wife - don't go getting me in trouble!" Hahahha.

It looked pretty kewl with the two Native American in full traditional head-dress.

Might be some photos on the www.BarackObama.com later today.

Then I missed the rest because I had to reboot ;(; May 19, 2008 5:30 PM
Ariane said...: Jay would you shut up about talking about peoples family? You have been asked before by both Obama and Clinton supporters. It is not funny at all, it is extremely offensive.; May 19, 2008 5:31 PM
suzihussein22 said...: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080519/ap_on_el_pr/obama_wife

If they can respect Miss Clinton, then they should respect Mrs. Obama.

amot-Them pesky foreigners...maybe we should put a fence around our whole country. :); May 19, 2008 5:32 PM
Ariane said...: leah,
Patti Solis Doyle did not do a very good job for Clinton, if I were Obama I don't think i would hire her for any very responsible position! Didn't she have not a very good record at getting along with other people on Hillary's campaign? And with managing campaign resources?; May 19, 2008 5:38 PM
Aunt Jean said...: This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.; May 19, 2008 5:38 PM
Amot said...: I am glad my posts got so many negative responses!

I am not voting for President, but if any of you thinks that who is the US President does not concern me, you are wrong.

US President Bill Clinton started war against independent country(Serbia) next to my door. Some 'smart' US bombs destroyed Bulgarian houses, no victims fortunately. USA used some bombs with uranium and caused various mutations among babies borned last decade.

US President George W. Bush made Kosovo independent state and laid grounds for the next big conflict at the Balkans. He decided to move military bases from Germany to Bulgaria and made my country potential target to terrorist attacks.

I don't want a President who will Nuke Iran after they Nuke Israel. I want a President who can sit and talk before those Nukes are used to damage half continent.

I don't want a President who is concerned about 4 000 Americans dead in Iraq, but one who knows that there were 150 000 civilians killed too. And cares about!

Jim, if you don't want me to interfere, tell your beloved Texan countryman and every next President of USA not to interfere with the rest of the world. If USA wants to act as Guardian of the World, everyone should be entitled to vote for US President!

USA is irresponsible in many ways. It is the only big industrial country that has not signed Kyoto Protocol. Maybe you don't care, but I want President who will listen to Al Gore and find a way to sign the protocol or amended version of it.

I can't force any of you (and especially you, Jim) to vote this way or the other way, but I have every right to share my opinion and lobby for the candidate I think is better for both USA and the world.

Ed, maybe problems are all local, but I don't believe in only local decisions. And I don't like your perspective of Amish society (it sounds to me like that).

P.S. Newton's third law of motion:
"For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction."; May 19, 2008 5:39 PM
Aunt Jean said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; May 19, 2008 5:49 PM
Anonymous said...: Amot said,
"Jim, if you don't want me to interfere, tell your beloved Texan countryman and every next ......"

Amot, you can't really interfere, any more than Ben Laden, Castro or
Hamas.; May 19, 2008 5:50 PM
Aunt Jean said...: robh like the trash about the million dollars she know that isn't true she just wanted to cause trouble with it and saying
RobH - Your post of May 19, 2008 3:55 PM is hillarous! Thanks for posting that!That was so rude. I could name a few more but she hasn't been to bad here the past few days but it seems like she can't just stop with trying to insult Hillary supporters the only place she goes to is the huffington Post it must be a rag paper becauser of some of the garbage they come up with. I guess what I'm trying to say is a lot of the things that Leah comes up with is not true but she tells it anyway to make people mad and to insult. Someone asked me one time very politely to quit calling obama a white bigot I haven't called him that in awhile. So I have asked her politely to quit with the insults on Hillary and Bill well she won't and I'm about tired of Obama supporters thinking that it's ok for her to do that.If you see her side of things try to see my side. Jean
I; May 19, 2008 5:52 PM
Aunt Jean said...: AMOT let me repeat this once more HILLARY never said that she would nuke Iran Jean; May 19, 2008 5:55 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Ariane said: leah,
Patti Solis Doyle did not do a very good job for Clinton, if I were Obama I don't think i would hire her for any very responsible position! Didn't she have not a very good record at getting along with other people on Hillary's campaign? And with managing campaign resources?"
______________

I think that the Clinton camp had many problems do to 'leadership'. I think that any of the Clinton camp folks that go on over to the Obama camp would not end up being 'top dog' in a dept., but rather working under the folks that Obama already has (and under Obama's rules and leadership).

So it might all work out in the end.

.; May 19, 2008 5:56 PM
Amot said...: Aunt Jean,
you are crossing the line again with this attack against Leah.
As most of you know BAN is impossible here, but how about constant deletion of your comments? And please, try to post with less typos. Sometimes what you write is not what you mean. And yes, you are the living prove elder people are conservative in USA the same way they are in Bulgaria.

Jean, if you and Aunty think youngsters should not be involved in voting because they don't pay taxes, you discriminate. More the point, why should elder people have a say on education or abortion if they are not concerned? Maybe all things edler people musthave a say are cruise liners? After all how does your particular experience (J&AJ) helps about informative and wise vote on green jobs? Or space program?; May 19, 2008 6:01 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: In her stump speech Hillary uses KARL ROVE and his analysis to sway people into believing she is the stronger candidate!

http://embeds.blogs.foxnews.com/2008/05/19/clinton-gets-a-little-help-from-her-enemies/

*She really should have ran as a Republican this time!; May 19, 2008 6:05 PM
jpsedona said...: Aunt Jean,

First, Huffingon Post to be a "rag" newsource as well. However, there's nothing wrong with someone posting that type of story.

This is a 'politicial blog'. Criticism of Obama and Hillary (and even Bill) is fair game. Why shouldn't someone say why a candidate is good? or why they are bad? If there's something factual, I think it's fair game. If it's opinion, hey, that's ok too.

Shoul Hillary somehow turn out to be the nominee, she'd face far worst stories and criticism than she did during the primaries.

We all understand that you'll be crushed if Hillary's not the nominee, but you have become overly sensitive to any opinion that doesn't jive with your own.; May 19, 2008 6:06 PM
Amot said...: Jim, you are wrong about what can people do. 11/9 is a prove that your actions get counteractions! I am not saying I will attack USA, but many Serbians are willing to, and half the other world too.

"For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction."

Let me think - 150K civilians dead in Iraq. The opposite should be 150K dead in ...; May 19, 2008 6:07 PM
Amot said...: Softspoken, do you think you would like to live behind fence? Cause fences work both way :); May 19, 2008 6:08 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: jpsedona-

Many of the links to articles that I post can also be found on CNN, FoxNews, MSNBC, Washington Post, and NY Times.
I prefer to post the HuffPost links because they always have better photos ;)

Obama '08
.; May 19, 2008 6:11 PM
jpsedona said...: Aunt jean,

Here's a link to a story on MSNBC titled "Clinton warns Iran of U.S. nuclear response". in an interview on April 21, she said:

"In the interview Monday, Clinton affirmed that she would warn Iran’s leaders that 'their use of nuclear weapons against Israel would provoke a nuclear response from the United States.'"

I think that pretty much says sge would nuke Iran.

Clinton warns Iran of U.S. nuclear response; May 19, 2008 6:11 PM
Amot said...: Aunty,
I was not talking about Hillary when I mentioned Nukes and Iran! I wonder why YOU thought I did?; May 19, 2008 6:14 PM
jpsedona said...: Leah,

You haven't come across any stories with pictures of middle aged women with cats have you?; May 19, 2008 6:15 PM
Aunt Jean said...: AMOT I was talking to robh he asked me what Leah had said so before you start trashing me I was not trashing Leah. Jean; May 19, 2008 6:18 PM
Aunt Jean said...: AMOT we read about those things unlike 18- 21 year olds. They are to busy out having fun.You know nothing about American ways. By the way Bill Clinton was probable the best president we ever had. Jean; May 19, 2008 6:22 PM
Aunt Jean said...: This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.; May 19, 2008 6:23 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; May 19, 2008 6:23 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Leah I go to those sites everyday no they don't Jean; May 19, 2008 6:24 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Amot-

Matt/Oreo dropped by this thread last night and deleted off about a dozen offensive posts. They probably will drop in later again.

I think Oreo and Matt deserve an award for all the hard work they do keeping DCW's numbers as accurate as they are.

(Post has been edited to correct two typos).; May 19, 2008 6:25 PM
jpsedona said...: HEADLINE: The world as we know it will end on June 3

In an effort to identify the Dem nominee prior to the world ending, all remaining Superdelegates have been quarantined.

"We are all just waiting for the end", said House Speaker Nancy Pelosi.

Voters in Florida have begun lining up at polling places to cast votes in yet another contested election, for old times sake.

In Michigan, Dem party leaders have decided to throw all of their support behind Mike Gravel in attempt to break the resolve primary deadlock.

President Bush has scheduled an address to the nation for June 4.; May 19, 2008 6:27 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Amot no one has to say names in order for them to know who you were referring to. Get real Jean; May 19, 2008 6:27 PM
Anonymous said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; May 19, 2008 6:28 PM
jean said...: amot,
had to pick up the monsters.
I never said that 18 year olds should not vote. I said they should and if they make a mistake they will learn.
Just like you and me.
Try it.
jean; May 19, 2008 6:28 PM
jpsedona said...: This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.; May 19, 2008 6:30 PM
Amot said...: Aunt Jean,
I don't want to trash you, but, please, behave! So far I have not seen Leah calling names or insulting someone, she is just citing news articles! Maybe you should give her list of approved media sources if you don't like the major ones. I think you should also make the same statement about Yam for his Nazi insults for a starter, or the Lemmings, or ... or ... or many many more!; May 19, 2008 6:30 PM
Anonymous said...: Had to delete myself. Too nasty.; May 19, 2008 6:35 PM
jean said...: Amot,
Realistically there are very few 18yr olds who know what the ballot issues are. Most really don't care.
Do you think they care about realestate taxes for schools? They are hopefully in college and it does not directly affect them and they don't own property.
Hopefully when they graduate it will become important to them when they buy a house, but not now.
Realism does exist.
jean; May 19, 2008 6:36 PM
Amot said...: Aunt Jean, what you said to JPS was too rude. I will propose delition to everything you said in the new thread!

Jean, apologies, I think we misunderstood each other a little bit. 'Monsters' are the kids, right?; May 19, 2008 6:36 PM
jean said...: Amot,
Yes my darling teenage monsters.
Survival rate is good for me but not great.
jean
one is here now
gotta go; May 19, 2008 6:38 PM
jpsedona said...: Jim,

I wasn't offended... I saw it as all in good humor. Leah may feel differently...; May 19, 2008 6:43 PM
ed iglehart said...: Amot,

I believe Softspoken was joking about the fence.

Salaam, etc.
ed; May 19, 2008 6:44 PM
Anonymous said...: Amot said...
Aunt Jean
I think you should also make the same statement about ......."

Amot,
Don't forget me,Richard ,Dilbuck,JayW. ,billyjay66 ,jpsedona,leah and of course yourself.; May 19, 2008 6:48 PM
Amot said...: Jean,
maybe I overestimate the youngsters and you underestimate them... I think most of them simply don't believe their vote matter. BTW why should one vote for everything on the ballot? You may simply vote for the things that concern you or you have opinion on. I do that. I agree that when you don't know what it is about, you better restrain. But when it comes to major elected officials I don't think anyone is indifferent. Maybe not everyone is well informed, but how many voters in WV knew for Hillary more than her name and that she proposed gas tax holliday?; May 19, 2008 6:50 PM
Amot said...: Jim,
neither you nor any of the rest has crossed the line so many times! JayW was already told to stop and punished. He is behaving much better now though he is still not save.; May 19, 2008 6:53 PM
jean said...: amot,
I have great kids and I know a lot who are 18 to 21. It is common for VERY HIGH self involvement. This self involvement is very high if they do not find a passion to follow (this has nothing to do with sex). Nothing is wrong with that. The function of the brain of a 18 year old to a 23 year old is drastically different.
Doctors still want 18 year olds to go to the Children's Hospital because they are physically developing in different ways and that includes mentally.
Maturity happens with a lot of 18 year olds and also alot do not mature.
I think they should vote and learn.
I will not vote for a 18 year old for president (metaphorically speaking) if you get my drift.
jean; May 19, 2008 7:00 PM
Amot said...: Ed,
I know softspoken was joking :)
Unfortunately her joke is dream for many, my answer was really addressed to them :((((; May 19, 2008 7:02 PM
Amot said...: Jean,
the last post I can fully second :); May 19, 2008 7:04 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: From CNN.com

Barack Obama held a rally in Crow Agency, Montana at the Crow Indian Reservation. Obama was given the name of “Awe Kooda bilaxpak Kuuxshish” which means “One who helps people throughout the land.” Obama was adopted by a Crow couple named Black Eagle. He joked that he very much liked the idea of “Barack Black Eagle.”

Obama '08
.; May 19, 2008 7:14 PM
RobH said...: Well, my cable was out for two hours, so I missed the barrage. Lucky me.

Aunt Jean, what confuses me is this:

Leah has absolutely NOT attacked you (or even addressed you) for days. But when she says something against Hillary, you TAKE it as if it IS against you. IMO you can't take commentary about a candidate as if it against you personally.

To do so would make you the final arbiter of what is acceptable and what is not - in other words, pure censorship for only one view.

And if you can be honest with yourself who's comments have been more offensive (regardless of which candidate they support or slam)- Leah's or Yam's?; May 19, 2008 7:20 PM
JayW said...: Jean,

You could not be more incorrect regarding your assumptions on the younger mind. Here is what I posted earlier....

Here is an article that TOTALLY proves you wrong regarding the youth (18-21) about not having the proper capacity to vote.

A quote from the article:

"Intellectually, American 16-year-olds are as advanced as the adult population. Their reasoning and decision making techniques are the same as those of adults. Psychologically, adolescents suffer the same rates of mental illness as the adult population. In light of such findings, why does is the belief in adolescent incompetence and irrationality of teens still so prevalent? Dr. Offer presents several possible reasons in his many books and articles on the subject of adolescence:

Many studies of adolescents have been based on populations of disturbed adolescents, the ones most likely to be available to psychiatrists for observation and research. Studies of normal adolescents, who are not in treatment for psychological disturbance, have supported Dr. Offer's findings.
Adults may have their own need to perceive teenagers as less capable and more volatile than they really are, to justify their continued authority over them, or for other reasons. "Adults' own fears and urges," Offer states, "may interfere with their ability to correctly perceive what teenagers are really like."
Psychological studies may be influenced by societal influences and trends. Dr. Offer cites a study of bias in psychological articles published over the past 100 years, in which researchers found that in times of economic depression, adolescents were portrayed as "immature" and "psychologically unstable", whereas in wartime, the focus was on the competence of adolescents."

http://www.asfar.org/zine/inaugural/truth.html; May 19, 2008 7:22 PM
RobH said...: Oh Aunt Jean, one more thing.

When you posted @ 5:52 and quoted Leah saying "RobH your post at 3:55 is hillariaous"?

Well, actually I didn't write that clever post at 3:55. That was actually jpsedona's response to my "half empty:half full" post. And I never got a chance to correct Leah when she offered kudos to me.

But in any event, her congratulating me (jp) on being funny can not be the basis for you thinking she's insulting you. You know what I mean?; May 19, 2008 7:25 PM
RobH said...: Leah, great post re the Crow Agency rally. How long until we get a post from Yam discussing the significance of Barack's new REALLY REALY REALY American name, wink wink?

Here it is Yam, so you can cut and paste and have some fun:

“Awe Kooda bilaxpak Kuuxshish”; May 19, 2008 7:31 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: RobH- Thank you for catching my mistake.

jpsedona- thanks for that post ;); May 19, 2008 7:34 PM
jean said...: jayw
you talk in"absolutes".
that is not a good way to converse or do anythingelse for that matter.
I said that 18 year olds should vote and learn from it.
As I said so should we.
You just want to dictate.
As the article said that biased is a standard for what you want in which the articles are written.
Find a friend and have a cocktail and relax(of course only if you are old enough by law).; May 19, 2008 7:36 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Professor Obama
Senator Obama
President Obama
Barack Black Eagle
Awe Kooda bilaxpak Kuuxshish

They all sound good to me :)

Obama '08
.; May 19, 2008 7:37 PM
UUbuntu said...: Amot -- I liked this post of yours. Thank you.

Quick response to JPSedona (this post) on Winning/Losing vs. Caring/Changing. I agree that campaigns are about winning and losing, and that government is about caring and changing. But as participants in the political process, we need to think more about our own roles in this process. We need to think about why we focus so much on winning and losing in our approach to the political process instead of caring and changing.

When we stop focusing on winners and losers -- and identifying with the outcome instead of the process, we will become less bitter, less partisan and less destructive toward one another. The problem isn't with our candidates, it's with us.

As to Bill Clinton, your opinion of his administration is probably higher than mine. IMO, He was a far better campaigner than a president, and spent too much time worrying about winning and losing to be the great president he might have been. I will admit though that he had other distracting issues during his tenure. Personally, I consider his presidency to be of average caliber -- at about the same level as was Ford's or Carter's. Unlike them though, he had the talent to be the next JFK or LBJ. In this regard, I do hold great hope for Obama's future presidency.; May 19, 2008 7:39 PM
Aunt Jean said...: all I said was that most 18- 21 years old could care less about what the issues are. Yes there are some that do care and are well informed but the group don't do that. So I guess they can watch TV and say ohhh I like the way he talks so I'm going to vote for him. I don't think so. If they vote they should at the very least listen to what they want to offer or don't vote. Jean; May 19, 2008 7:39 PM
Aunt Jean said...: ipsedona believe me I wouldn't let you have the pleasure.it was a figure of speech. Jean; May 19, 2008 7:41 PM
jean said...: Meeting husband to go to the ball game.
Stopping by for a cocktail first.
I am old enough:)
jean; May 19, 2008 7:43 PM
Aunt Jean said...: tyler I beg to differ Carter and Ford was nowhere near as good as Clinton. Jean; May 19, 2008 7:44 PM
Yamaka said...: This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.; May 19, 2008 7:47 PM
UUbuntu said...: Matt/Oreo -- Is it possible to record IP addresses of posters here? There have been suspicions of people creating multiple identities in order to foster conflict or support for otherwise indefensible statements. Thanks in advance.; May 19, 2008 7:48 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Robh no leah didn't insult me she just insulted Hillary by yor comment and you did too your 3:55pm post so please don't preach that she doesn't insult just like you and most of the other insult Hillary or Hillary supporters and if you can't see that I feel sorry for you. Jean; May 19, 2008 7:50 PM
Aunt Jean said...: I got one for you Obama supporters today on CNN they were giving Michelle heck about her statement: FOR THE FIRST TIME I'M PROUD OF AMERICA WHAT A JOKE SHE MEANT EXACTLY WHAT SHE SAID!!!!!!! JEAN; May 19, 2008 7:52 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Leah no Hillary didn't have problems with leadership that is your bias opinion. Jean; May 19, 2008 7:56 PM
RobH said...: Aunt Jean,

Did you even read my post? It says right in there that I DIDN'T WRITE the 3:55 post that you're slamming me for as an insult?

How can you 'charge' me with being insulting, when I didn't even write it???

You've totally lost me, but would you like me to take offense at your mis-characterization of me? Or would you care to apologize?; May 19, 2008 7:57 PM
JayW said...: This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.; May 19, 2008 7:58 PM
JayW said...: Aunt Jean:

You just wrote:
I got one for you Obama supporters today on CNN they were giving Michelle heck about her statement: FOR THE FIRST TIME I'M PROUD OF AMERICA WHAT A JOKE SHE MEANT EXACTLY WHAT SHE SAID!!!!!!! JEAN
__________________

Well if that is OK then why is it wrong to attack little miss Hillary for "Sniper Fire". Seems the same to me.

Care to explain?

No doubt you will and it will make sense only to you....
and your cats.; May 19, 2008 7:59 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Leah no such thing as professor Obama and there won't be a president obama. Jean; May 19, 2008 8:05 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Jayw and I don't believe anything that comes out of your mouth 99% of the time it's trash and lies. Jean; May 19, 2008 8:09 PM
Amot said...: Tyler, thank you!

JayW, stop the cats' joke, please! No need to show bad manners!; May 19, 2008 8:10 PM
UUbuntu said...: Aunt Jean -- I agree that Clinton was a far more popular president than Carter or Ford (or Bush 41). And philosophically, I liked him a lot more than Ford or Bush. But in terms of overall effectiveness, I feel that his presidency was in the same league as those. The problem (to me, anyway) is that he had much, much more persuasive and inspirational talent than Bush/Ford/Carter. He was never able to use it. He could have been great. He was just OK.

Historians generally give the Clinton presidency average marks. A few years ago, C-Span had a poll of a wide variety of historians, and the general views of the Clinton presidency was that of an average presidency. He got high marks for economic management (deservedly, IMO) and pursuit of justice (less deservedly), and low marks for moral authority (for obvious reasons) and relations with congress.; May 19, 2008 8:12 PM
Aunt Jean said...: robh I do apologize for my error.It seems like everyone is in attack mode. Jean; May 19, 2008 8:14 PM
RobH said...: Thank you; May 19, 2008 8:16 PM
JayW said...: This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.; May 19, 2008 8:17 PM
Aunt Jean said...: tyler the only thing is the media has never liked the Clintons but about the moral issue I have agree with you but he was great in a lot of things but he deserves more than avg. Jean; May 19, 2008 8:18 PM
Aunt Jean said...: This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.; May 19, 2008 8:20 PM
RobH said...: Well, I just picked up the Rove comment on the news. Hillary has just quoted Karl Rove's analysis as to how she's the stronger candidate??

So if I've got this right, in this camapaign, she and Bill have:

praised Fox News,
visited with Rush Limbaugh,
been endorsed by Richard Mellon Scaife,
and now Karl Rove??

It's getting really hard for me see these as the actions of a Democrat. I'm really stumped.; May 19, 2008 8:21 PM
Emit R Detsaw said...: Aunt Jean, I'm not quite sure, but several days you and I had a civil discussion on this board.

Please don't take things so personal. Not everything is against you or Clinton.

The past weekend this board turned into a very civil conversation about world events and things that impact Americans and folks around the world. Though sometimes boring, ;o), it was far better than where the blog has gone since someone got home.

Please calm down a bit and try to contribute to the conversation, or maybe sit back for awhile and enjoy. There is too much hate in the world already.

Not attacking, just know you are ticking off a bunch of folks that were holding a pretty good discussion.

Thanks; May 19, 2008 8:23 PM
Amot said...: JayW, how dare you!?!
Delete your last post immediately! You don't deserve to be here if you aim to atack personally other bloggers. And whatever you think of Clintons, you should not make 'horse face' remarks!; May 19, 2008 8:24 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Jayw one last post to you I was just repeating what was said that's all.They were talking about what she said and did she really mean it and if the republicans are going to leave it alone. Then someelse said no that she might as well get used to it. Jean; May 19, 2008 8:24 PM
themann1086 said...: A few things.

JayW, get lost. You're a jerk repeating misogynistic attacks on Aunt Jean.

Aunt Jean, I'm going to politely ask you, again, to stop stereotyping my age bracket. We're better informed than many other age brackets, even if our voter turnout is lower. There are studies on this: Daily Show viewers, who are younger, are some of the best-informed people in the country. Fox News viewers, who are older, are the least informed. Granted, there's plenty of crossover, and neither groups are representative, but it is a data point which disproves your stereotypes.

I've mentioned this before, but to repeat myself: Yammy is repeating every right-wing meme and talking point in the book. "HUSSEIN", calling Obama [and FAR LEFT liberals] the MINORITY candidate, etc etc. It's classic stuff. Lee Attwater would be proud.; May 19, 2008 8:27 PM
JayW said...: This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.; May 19, 2008 8:28 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: RobH -

Of course the Clintons are in KaHoots with the Republicans.

Hillary was a Barry Goldwater Girl.

Hillary and McCain are buddies.

Hillary belongs to that prayer group at the Senate that I believe is run by and has a majority of REPUBLICANS.

Bill Clinton and George Bush Sr. and Jr. are all buddies.

It is pretty obvious that Hillary is really a Republican!

Vote Democratic!
Vote OBAMA '08
.; May 19, 2008 8:31 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Reporter: "Senator Obama is Hillary a Democrat or a Republican?"

Senator Obama: "Ummm... she is a Democrat AS FAR AS I KNOW..."

____________

OBAMA '08
.; May 19, 2008 8:35 PM
Amot said...: Leah,
you don't really mean she is Republican, do you?
Maybe she uses some quotes and help from Republicans, but we want to be bipartisan, so why not? The attempt to buy delegates seems more important to me, I hope she didn't not know about it and it was private action by a rich supporter.
BTW we are discussion some ex-Republicans for Obama's VP slot :)
I like the way she claims to have won the popular vote though!; May 19, 2008 8:38 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Link to page with slide-show photos of the Crow Agency, MT, event (about half way down the page):

http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/post/caitlinharvey/gGBTlf

Obama '08
.; May 19, 2008 8:42 PM
RobH said...: Everyone here knows I am an Obama supporter, and I'm confident he will be our party's nominee (eventually - Not Tues but maybe 5/31 or 6/3.) What I'm about to say is NOT disparaging HRC and so should not be taken personally by her ardent supporters. It is more meant as social commentary, and is kind of happiness producing (for our party, I think.)

Here goes:

I wonder if, when Obama wins Hillary's endorsement, the Republicans will suddenly wake up and say:

"Holy c**p, did we ever underestimate this guy! He just took out the CLINTON'S! Remember the Clinton's - the most formidable political family in memory? The one's who don't know how to lose? The one's who come back from the dead, every time?"

And here's what they'll find when they examine it. He simply did exactly what he said he'd do. Refrain from yesterday's politics, don't stoop, don't take the bait, don't pander, talk to the voter's honestly and intelligently. Outplan, out manage, outwork. That's all.; May 19, 2008 8:45 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Amot said: "...The attempt to buy delegates seems more important to me, I hope she didn't not know about it and it was private action by a rich supporter."
_________

Well she has already used money in the past to try to buy votes. I posted a link here a week or so ago about the 'street money' she used in Texas and some other state. So it wouldn't be a shock to me that she would know about a rich donor trying to buy delegate votes.

As far as Obama picking a Republican for the V.P. slot - I believe that would NEVER happen, because if something were ever to happen to President Obama then the White House would be back in the hands of the Repubs.

Obama '08
.; May 19, 2008 8:50 PM
taffy said...: Many of you would be embarrassed to have your own comments read back to you. Come on, all this sniping is ridiculous.; May 19, 2008 8:53 PM
Aunt Jean said...: themann1086 I'm not really trying to insult your age anf if you really listen to what is going on that is wonderful. But of your friends how many really know what they both stand for. What's really bad about the whole thing is there are some that is informed that really doesn't listen to both sides. I do believe that young people should get involved because we are looking at their future I just don't think that most and remember I said most could care less about. But I also think that you do and like I said before that is great.You should be proud of yourself that you care enough to get involved. Jean; May 19, 2008 8:57 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Amot this is what I'm talking about her repeating gossip Hillary doesn't buy votes she doesn't need to and for leah to keep harping on that is terrible and shows disrespect for Hillary. Jean; May 19, 2008 9:00 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Leah there was also gossip about Obama doing the same thing.The only reason I haven't brought it up until now is I believed it to be trash. So are you telling me that you can't give Hillary the same respect. Jean.; May 19, 2008 9:03 PM
Richard said...: JayW, your comments are becoming increasingly offensive, misogynist, and most recently homophobic. I do not agree with Aunt Jean, but she does not deserve such vile abuse. I think you have long worn out your welcome here from people on both sides of the issue. Begone.; May 19, 2008 9:04 PM
Aunt Jean said...: robh and do you know what I would say to that with the big help of the MEDIA plus he has made several nasty remarks about Hillary. Jean; May 19, 2008 9:06 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Robh there is only one way Hillary will give obama her support and I do believe that you all know what I'm talking about. Jean; May 19, 2008 9:08 PM
Aunt Jean said...: she has won the pop vote. Jean; May 19, 2008 9:10 PM
Richard said...: As for buying of super delegates, I think that is an issue that should be investigated on both sides. I don't believe either candidate has made or would make the kind of bald offer Leah has reported (for one thing, a super delegate vote is ridiculously overpriced at $1 million). I do know, however, that PACs associated with both candidates have been making significant contributions to the campaigns of known super delegates in all states for well over a year. These can all be explained away as campaign contributions to like-minded democrats, but the appearance and likely reality is disturbing. Just one more reason to do away with supers altogether.; May 19, 2008 9:11 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Amot-

Here is the article regarding Hillary and 'STREET MONEY' (Source New York Times)

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/13/us/politics/13streetcash.html?_r=2&sq=hillary%20clinton&st=nyt&adxnnl=1&scp=6&adxnnlx=1210676687-yR2lAj/uwopqIRM/xTxdCw&oref=slogin&oref=slogin

.; May 19, 2008 9:21 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Leah if Hillary is a republican then does that make obama the devil. Everytime you say that I will call obama the devil. If you stop so will I. Jean; May 19, 2008 9:22 PM
themann1086 said...: Aunt Jean,

All of my friends are aware. Every last one of them.

I'm still mad that you advocated limiting the right to vote. Lots of people, across the ideological and age spectrum, are unaware of the world around them. They still get to vote, because the right to vote is fundamental to the democratic process.; May 19, 2008 9:23 PM
Aunt Jean said...: leah she was not buying votes do you have a hard time uderstanding that are you just being out and out mean!!!! Jean; May 19, 2008 9:24 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Here's leah's words of how little respect that she shows Hillary
So it wouldn't be a shock to me that she would know about a rich donor trying to buy delegate votes.; May 19, 2008 9:26 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Do you know that the last time I heard that obama had spent almost $400,000 and Hillary had spent $95,000 trying to woo SD's. Jean; May 19, 2008 9:29 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: VOTE DEMOCRAT!

Obama - the candidate with integrity, wisdom, compassion, intelligence, eloquence and grace.

VOTE OBAMA '08; May 19, 2008 9:33 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Themann1086 That is so good to hear.As you can tell I don't have a lot of faith in the young people in making an informed choose. All I can do is hope when it comes down to the nov. election all the young people that vote. That they vote because they are informed not because of foolish reasons. I believe what you said about you and your friends being informed I just wish all young people were.Doesn't matter who you support. Jean; May 19, 2008 9:46 PM
RobH said...: And so we wrap up another fine day for Senator Obama.

(Me, I check out of here for the night, Leah on the other hand can be counted on to man the ramparts until 3AM.)

As of this moment, Senator Obama is 110 delagates short of a mathematical ceertainty. He ought to gain 90 across the remaining five contests. He will certainly pick up 6 in add-ons between 5/23 -6/1.

That leaves him just 14 SD's short. He picked up five today.
At this pace he should be secure by this weekend. Don't doubt he'll pick up few tomorrow, but expect a surge on Weds, Thurs.

It's good, it's good.; May 19, 2008 9:46 PM
Aunt Jean said...: VOTE DEMOCRAT VOTE FOR HILLARY!!!! JEAN; May 19, 2008 9:47 PM
suzihussein22 said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; May 19, 2008 9:48 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: RobH -

Goodnight and sweet dreams to you ;)

Tomorrow will be an awesome day! Tomorrow will cross the hump and have the MAJORITY of Pledged Delegates! Then we will see the members of the Pelosi Club start coming on out for our next President of the UNITED States of America!

OBAMA '08
.; May 19, 2008 9:51 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: See ya all later.

Obama's rally has a live link on www.CNN.com
top right side of the page.

OBAMA '08
.; May 19, 2008 9:55 PM
suzihussein22 said...: For those that we think have everything:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080520/ap_on_sc/florida_artifacts

Or you could get someone a belly button lint remover.:))); May 19, 2008 9:56 PM
Unknown said...: How many super delegates does Obama now need to prevent Clinton from getting to 2024.5.

To start with, Clinton needs 306 to win. There are two pools of delegates. 189 pledged delegates from the remaining contests, and 211 super delegates (217-6 in the Pelosi club-Carter, Cantwell, 2 Pelosis, 2 TX DNCers). Assume she blows out Obama by 21 PDs with big wins in KY and PR compared to modest wins by Obama in OR, SD and MT (105-84). (There are also 9 Edwards delegates, but let’s consider them out of play.)

With a 21 point deficit in the remaining contests, Obama needs only 11 supers, (that’s right, count ‘em 11, supers) to prevent Clinton from reaching 2024.5 delegates.

The final math comes tomorrow or Wednesday.

With 211 remaining supers and Clinton needing 201 (306-105), Obama needs only 11 Supers to knock the pool to 200, below the 201 that Clinton needs to win.; May 19, 2008 10:00 PM
JayW said...: This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.; May 19, 2008 10:01 PM
Hippolytus said...: Aunt Jean said...

"Do you know that the last time I heard that obama had spent almost $400,000 and Hillary had spent $95,000 trying to woo SD's."
______________

I don't know how much either candidate has contributed to various superdelegates, but your post suggests that Hillary has engaged in this practice as well as Barack. Neither side is in a position to throw stones this time. I agree with an earlier post that this is an issue that should be examined re: future campaigns, and would be rendered moot going forward if supers are eliminated.; May 19, 2008 10:03 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Obama's list least we forget them WRIGHT,REZKO,In 1995, State Senator Alice Palmer introduced her chosen successor, Barack Obama, to a few of the district’s influential liberals at the home of two well known figures on the local left: William Ayers and Bernardine Dohrn. Obama’s connections to Ayers and Dorhn have been noted in some fleeting news coverage in the past. But the visit by Obama to their home — part of a campaign courtship — reflects more extensive interaction than has been previously reported.
:
You know what they say, "You're known by the company you keep." Obama was associated with THAT racist pastor for over two decades. Not once did he confront the racist and anti-American rhetoric. He even wrote a book that was inspired by "Reverend" Wright. It's no real stretch of the imagination for people to believe that he privately buys into some of these ideas.lEAH WOULD YOU LIKE MORE. JEAN; May 19, 2008 10:05 PM
Hippolytus said...: Aunt Jean said...

"Robh there is only one way Hillary will give obama her support and I do believe that you all know what I'm talking about."
___________

Please explain.; May 19, 2008 10:10 PM
Hippolytus said...: Aunt Jean said:
"You know what they say, "You're known by the company you keep."
____________

I don't think that's a line of argument that you should press too hard on behalf of Hillary, Aunt Jean.
Does not name Mark Rich ring a bell, to name but one?; May 19, 2008 10:13 PM
jean said...: Wow
Came back from the ballgame.
Son pitched and they won.
Wow
Just finished reading the posts.
Getting a cocktail.
Is it a full moon?
jean; May 19, 2008 10:20 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: I'm back the rally is over ;(

Okay - now here is my question. Hillary says that the media has not been fair to her - but the media, in my opinion has been more than fair because they never talk about any of her BAGGAGE:

- The disappearance of the Rose law firm billing records, their later discovery in the White House and Hillary Clinton’s inability to explain how they got there.

- Her huge and inexplicable winnings in a cattle futures operation

- Her role in the Whitewater development which was - although the media refuses to admit it - simply a land resort scam and one that was particularly aimed at seniors.

- Her role in the despicable White House travel office firings apparently aimed at favoring the travel firm that bankrolled Bill Clinton’s campaign by delayed billing.

- Her role in the use of FBI files on political opponents and the open question of what information from these files she still possesses.

- A case, still in court, Peter Paul vs. Clintons, involving the failure to report over a million dollars in campaign contributions. Clinton’s Senate campaign has already been fined by the FEC for failing to accurately report $700,000 in contributions.

- Her relationship with such indisputably dubious persons such as Johnny Chung, John Huang, Ng Lap Seng, Mochtar Riady, the McDougalds, Craig Livingstone, Webster Hubbell and Jorge Cabrera

Now how on earth can she say that that media has not not been fair to her and how on earth can she say that she is vetted when America doesn't even know about half of the above issues? And how can she say that she is vetted when she has not released her income tax return from 'last year', her Senate earmarks, and the Clinton Library Donor list.

There just a bit of food for thought ;); May 19, 2008 10:26 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: RECORDS SET BY BILL CLINTON

- The only president ever impeached on grounds of personal malfeasance
- Most number of convictions and guilty pleas by friends and associates
- Most number of cabinet officials to come under criminal investigation
- Most number of witnesses to flee country or refuse to testify
- Most number of witnesses to die suddenly
- First president sued for sexual harassment.
- First president accused of rape.
- First president’s wife/first lady to come under criminal investigation
- Largest criminal plea agreement in an illegal campaign contribution case
- First president to establish a legal defense fund
- First president to be held in contempt of court

WAKE UP AMERICA - we need to keep Bill Clinton as far away from the White House as possible!

VOTE OBAMA '08
.; May 19, 2008 10:32 PM
Independent Voter said...: Aunt Jean,

I personally had gotten so disgusted with the crap that has been being spewed on here that I quit posting, but I've been checking in occasionally.

You DO NOT want to even get started with the whole "guilt by association" BULL that you are trying to pull. I will RIP your argument apart. I will give you just TWO examples.

First - Susan Rosenberg. Weather Underground member who was found guilty of the 1981 Brink's robbery that left two police officers DEAD.

Second - and this one goes DIRECTLY to HER character. She LITERALLY WORKED for Treuhaft, Walker and Burnstein who literally defended COMMUNISTS and the BLACK PANTHERS.

I thought YOU of all people had moved on from the guilt by association but I guess you haven't. Now READ BOTH articles and tell me you REALLY want to go there! The first one is from the New York Times and the second one is from the Washington Post. Hence they are NOT from Huffington Post...you know the one you like to call a "rag".; May 19, 2008 10:33 PM
jean said...: Yep.
Full moon is on the 20th.
Commonly referred to as Male PMS.
Have a good night.
jean; May 19, 2008 10:33 PM
Hippolytus said...: Leah,
You said it better than me. No wonder there is Clinton fatigue!; May 19, 2008 10:35 PM
Mike in Maryland said...: Aunt Jean,

Back in March, several high-ranking donors for Sen. Clinton sent a letter to House Speaker Nancy Pelosi chastising her for suggesting that superdelegates had a responsibility to support the candidate who finished the primary process leading in the pledged delegate count. They threatened to withhold money from Democratic Party candidates if Pelosi didn't back down from her statement that she would support the candidate with the highest number of pledged delegates.

Would you, or would you not, consider that a bribe of sorts? I'm sure most would consider it bribery, as there is a quid pro quo principle here ("I/we will give you something if you give me/us something in return").

Without researching through all the comments, I don't remember you making a comment, one way or the other, about this attempted bribery. Did you? If you did, can you quote the comments, including date and time?

And finally, what do you think of this report from Fox News:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,354716,00.html
http://tinyurl.com/666wly

Mike

P.S., Why aren't you mature enough to admit that your comments about voting age were made in the heat of the moment, and on reflection, you might have been wrong?

Just an admission that those comments MIGHT have been wrong would do wonders.

One of the marks of maturity is being able to admit a mistake. Continuing to defend an indefensible position shows immaturity.; May 19, 2008 10:47 PM
Judy Bienvenu said...: I've been away from this blog for a while. I couldn't take Aunt Jean's comments as I found them quite offensive. Typically, when something offends me, I avoid it.

Leah seems to have found the best of both worlds. Still blogging but yet, ignoring.

I love a good debate. Maybe I'll try again.....; May 19, 2008 10:49 PM
Hippolytus said...: Anderson Cooper 360 just did a spot on Clay County, Kentucky, which is a poor, rural, and heavily Republican area. When asked about Hillary for President, a middle aged woman adamantly declared, "It's in the Bible...A woman's place is in the home." West Virginia redux, sad to say. But I guess to cringe at such an ignorant comment is to be tagged an elitist.; May 19, 2008 10:52 PM
Yamaka said...: Dear Management:

Do you think the post at 10:01 pm May 19 is okay with you?

It is extremely in poor taste.

Please remove it immediately. Thanks.

_____________________________________

Dear Democrats:

John Kerry managed to get nearly 59 million votes, but got only 251 EVs, thus defeated badly.

He had many assets working for him:

He was very well known in the Country. He had good name recognition, has been in the Senate for a long time. He was a war hero.

But with all the assets, the liability was he IS a bleeding liberal. What are the basic instincts of a FAR LEFT Liberals like Kerry, and now BHO:

1. They want to tax the rich and feed the rest.

2. They are into income and wealth redistribution ideology.

3. They want to punish the highly skilled productive Americans by their punitive taxation.

4. They are very weak in National Security.

5. They are very weak in Foreign Policy.

Kerry and Kennedy came very early on to pin their badge of honor to BHO early Feb before the Super Tuesday. In spite of it, BHO lost MA, CA and many other MUST win States for a Democrat.

As I said many times, BHO's constituency is very weak and shallow:
Blacks, semi-educated "affluent" Whites and college kids all of which constitute only about 45%. Hence I call him a Minority Candidate, and a Black Candidate.

If Kerry lost in 2004 with all the name recognition, experience and National Service, why do you think the Minority Candidate, who is least vetted, least experienced, will win 2008 GE?

The Democratic Party is itching to become a Party of Minority! It commands the Majority (women, working and older Americans the 55% of Democrats) to ride at the Back of the Bus.

What a twisted strategy and policy!

This is perhaps the Karma, as the Hindus say.

Folks, think hard and act fast.

Cheer, Smile and Nominate Hillary for REAL POSITIVE CHANGE.

:-); May 19, 2008 10:54 PM
Aunt Jean said...: leah you can spread all the lies you want to but just look at the people that obama asso. with and that are friends with. Now look at all the lies because there is no proof of wrong doing. Plus yes they talked of empeachment but didn't do it. Leah and you just can't stand that can you LOL LOL LOL.Most of that is just specultion.I love it LOL LOL LOL LOL . Jean

Dave the panthers back obama.Besides I didn't say these things I just copied and pasted to prove to Leah that there is trash that you can dig up on both of them.Jean; May 19, 2008 10:57 PM
suzihussein22 said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; May 19, 2008 10:57 PM
Richard said...: I don't know how much either candidate has contributed to various superdelegates, but your post suggests that Hillary has engaged in this practice as well as Barack. Neither side is in a position to throw stones this time.

I believe I read details of the contributions somewhere, and Aunt Jean's figures seem familiar. I am willing to grant, for the sake of argument, that Barack outspent her 4:1 wooing super delegates.

I don't think, though, as Aunt Jean seems to imply, that there is any argument to be made that there is a difference in degrees between the two campaigns. I am confident that if Clinton had thought in the beginning that she might need the super delegates her contributions would have at least equaled Obama's; as it was, it wasn't until well into the campaign and after she had blown most of her early fundraising lead that she realized the contest wouldn't be over on Super Tuesday and that supers might in fact come into play.

I agree that neither is in a position to throw stones, and I suspect that is why nobody in Hillary's camp is raising the issue.; May 19, 2008 10:58 PM
Judy Bienvenu said...: Yams! I missed ya! How have you been over there in Houston? Oh I forgot about the humidity....I guess you've been hot and sticky!

Austin's still great & beautiful! How 'bout you head over here on November 4th? We can find us some bar stools on 6th Street and watch the election returns come in!; May 19, 2008 11:02 PM
Richard said...: Yamaka - I notice that it's been over a day and you still have not offered a single point of policy difference to justify your claim that Clinton is a "moderate centrist" and Obama is a "far-left liberal." Would you care to do so now?

As far as I can see, the only significant policy differences between the two candidates are that Obama would not mandate participation by adults in his health care plan (hardly a left-wing position) and would engage in active diplomacy with Iran and other so-called "rogue" nations (something supported by many people on both sides of the spectrum). Oh, and Obama opposes John McCain's ridiculous gas tax holidy, while Hillary jumped right on the bandwagon.

Exactly what position has Obama taken that justifies your labeling him and Clinton so differently?; May 19, 2008 11:06 PM
Independent Voter said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; May 19, 2008 11:10 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Hippolytus said: "Anderson Cooper 360 just did a spot on Clay County, Kentucky, which is a poor, rural, and heavily Republican area. When asked about Hillary for President, a middle aged woman adamantly declared, "It's in the Bible...A woman's place is in the home."
_______________

Wow that is amazing!
Since I live in a big city I guess it is easy to forget that there are people in some parts of the country where 'probably' lots of folks have backwards opinions of women and non-whites. I can see where some of the people that live in less uneducated/less diverse places would be more apt to not want to vote for anyone other than a white person, but that is a shock that people still would go by the 'a woman's place is in the home' stance!

Obama / Sebelius '08
.; May 19, 2008 11:11 PM
Aunt Jean said...: This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.; May 19, 2008 11:15 PM
Independent Voter said...: Hipp, OMG! Has this person been living under a rock? LOL! If a woman wants to work why the hell shouldn't she be "allowed" too? Besides, doesn't the Bible say that we can sell our daughters into slavery (Exodus 21:7)? Maybe I should adopt a few soon, I wonder how much I can get? IT'S A JOKE AUNT JEAN! Lighten up! You know I'm an Atheist.....I just use their book to fire back to show how absurd some arguments are.

---

Aunt Jean, as far as your last post - and MINE - sorry about that as far as the "dirt". I didn't realize that was your intent.; May 19, 2008 11:16 PM
Independent Voter said...: Aunt Jean, as far as the panthers endorsing Obama, that was NOT an endorsement he wanted nor was it one he pursued. So your trying to pin that on him.....is grasping at straws to say the least. He NEVER defended them, Hillary DID!; May 19, 2008 11:18 PM
Hippolytus said...: I get the biggest kick listening to Hillary modulate her voice as she travels state to state. Her Kentucky twang is actually funny. It's like she's doing a parody (of herself). So much for "To thine own self be true..."; May 19, 2008 11:20 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Hippolytus-

It is a kick!
Every now and again I'll click on the Hillary live link on CNN just to see what she is up to and it's normally just to see what she 'sounds' like. I wonder if anyone is doing a 'study' of the voices she has used during the campaign. It's not only the different accents she uses but she also has different tones and and 'ways' of talking - it the only thing that I find interesting about her actually.

Obama '08
.; May 19, 2008 11:27 PM
Independent Voter said...: Aunt Jean, you are accusing Leah of lying again, what part of her post are you saying that she is lying about? Just curious.

Because Mike Huckabee has gone as far as adopting the literal interpretation of the Bible which calls for a woman to "graciously submit to their husband.

So yes, there ARE people out there who share that woman's opinion that a woman only belongs in the home.; May 19, 2008 11:27 PM
Hippolytus said...: Independent voter said...
"So yes, there ARE people out there who share that woman's opinion that a woman only belongs in the home."
________
And I imagine that they will be coming out in full force in Kentucky tomorrow.; May 19, 2008 11:32 PM
Independent Voter said...: Hipp,

If they do, that would be EXCELLENT news for Obama. That would pull A LOT of them away from Hillary if that were the case. Even if they voted for a Republican it would still pull votes from her.; May 19, 2008 11:36 PM
Hippolytus said...: Independent voter,
I'm not as optimistic as you. I think that the "woman's place is in the home" on its own merits might benefit Obama, but it suggests a more broadly held uneducated and backwards view that will cut against him (as the polling data suggests). While I support Obama, I suspect that he'll be creamed in Kentucky, although perhaps not as badly in West Virginia.; May 19, 2008 11:47 PM
Aunt Jean said...: mike in maryland even though I don't think what they said was right but it is their money.They should have said it some other way besides the way they did.I am not a fan of nancy pelosi.[to hard nosed] About the fox news that guys SD's rights should be taken away from him. Jean; May 19, 2008 11:48 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Now don't get me wrong here BUT I think after Senator Obama has this nomination wrapped up (which will be awesome!) I think that it will be a bit dead here on the Open Thread. I think that the level of passion that has been exhibited during the Obama/Clinton race won't be the same with the Obama/McCain race - mainly because I don't think there are that many 'passionate' McCain supporters.

Obama '08; May 19, 2008 11:50 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Dave most of that stuff can,t be proven. Then some of it is from Years ago and I mean years. Should we start calling obama a drug head he has admitted to taking them. Jean; May 19, 2008 11:51 PM
Leah Texas4Obama said...: Bravo Matt/Oreo!
I see ya'll deleted some of those nasty comments off up above on this page ;); May 19, 2008 11:54 PM
Aunt Jean said...: Dave I'm tired of leah's lack of respect for Hillary she is always bring up crap that can't be proven or has been dismissed. Just to put down Hillary ,Bill, and their supporters. So evertime she does that I'm going to bring up trash on obama. Fair is fair. You might not think that what she is saying is wrong but I do.The way she says it sometimes and I will say this [no insult to men meant]men might not catch what she does she is very sly sometimes with how she words it. Jean; May 19, 2008 11:56 PM

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