Friday, July 18, 2008

A candidate doesn't need to be "nominated" to receive votes

WE'VE MOVED! Democratic Convention Watch is now at http://www.DemocraticConventionWatch.com

CQ has a story about some Clinton diehards who think she still has a chance to win the nomination if given a chance. The negotiations between the Obama and Clinton camps over when she will be speak and whether her name will be placed in nomination are ongoing, but some things are clear regardless of any political decisions:

After nominations for presidential candidates have closed, the Convention shall proceed to a roll call vote by states on the selection of the presidential candidate. The roll call voting shall follow the alphabetical order of the states with the District of Columbia and Puerto Rico and the territories treated as states for the purpose of the alphabetical roll call.
  • Clinton does not need to be nominated in order for delegates to vote for her. (VIII)(C)(7)(c):
Delegates may vote for the candidate of their choice whether or not the name of such candidate was placed in nomination.
Now it is true that Clinton does need to give her permission in order for her to be nominated, and that is what the negotiations are about.

But even a political expert like Craig Crawford gets it wrong:
All the more reason for Obama to make sure that there is no roll call including Clinton's name on the ballot at the national convention.
And even Howard Dean gets it wrong:
When asked about the ads criticizing him and Speaker Pelosi for Clinton supposedly not being on the ballot at the convention, he scoffed. Clinton will be on the ballot at the convention.
There is no "ballot" at a convention. Delegates can vote for anybody they want to. If delegates want to vote for Clinton, they can, and I don't think there's anything the Obama or the Clinton teams can do to stop it.

Comments (12)

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There's no reason that Clinton should not receive votes at the convention. She worked for those votes, their hers, and she's already endorsed Obama. Many of these delegates are coming to Denver just so that they can vote for her. But with the exception of a handful of die-hards, the majority of these delegates are not looking to nominate Senator Clinton.
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1 reply · active less than 1 minute ago
Idiot question -- having endorsed Obama, will she cast HER vote (as a Super from NY) for him or for herself? I know that it may not matter when NY says "And the Empire State casts x votes for...." but I'm curious what she will do.......just a thought.
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Hillary Rodham Clinton Is Young in the world of Politics, and would not gamble her future chances of the presidency (which are extremely good for the next 20 years or more I would say) on a long shot gamble to get it today. Besides, If Obama is still up in the polls the democrats would loath the thought of not nominating him. If he is not still up in the polls, then there will be a larger faction of people vying to cause havoc, but still not enough to change things.

Scary Thought though.
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Matt, I think your definition of the word "ballot" is way too restrictive. I have checked many historical sources and they all use the word ballot in referencing a particular roll call vote at a convention. For example, the New York Times in 1960 led with "LOS ANGELES, Thursday, July 14 -- Senator John F. Kennedy smashed his way to a first-ballot Presidential nomination at the Democratic National Convention", and the Wikipedia article on 1932 convention "After three ballots, Roosevelt had not secured the two-thirds majority necessary for the nomination." I'm pretty sure delegates could vote for individuals whose names were not in nomination back them as well, since comedian Will Rogers got 22 votes on the second ballot.

Delegates can vote for anyone, but the vote is recorded as "Present" unless Dr. Dean says they have voted for a "Presidential Candidate" (see Article VI of the call), so Stephen Colbert is out of luck.

The American Heritage Dictionary defines ballot as "2. The act, process, or method of voting..." and "3. A list of candidates running for office". If Clinton is nominated she is on that list. If not, delegates can still vote for her - it's the equivalent of a write-in on a paper ballot. Then we can say she received n votes on the first ballot.
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SarahLawrence Scott's avatar

SarahLawrence Scott · 873 weeks ago

Considering this, I think Hillary has to have her name placed in nomination and that this all has to be choreographed. If she doesn't go through the motions, then her delegates become in play (including her own vote, as Jessie points out), and it could get ugly for no reason. Let everyone vote as their prior commitments indicate at the roll call, and then have a big celebration when Obama goes over the top. Heck--bring Hillary signs and then once Obama wins put them all down and everyone picks up an Obama sign and split delegations come together.

It will end up looking like an elaborately staged piece of theater, but that's OK--pulling it off will itself show unity...and a kind of closure.
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1 reply · active less than 1 minute ago
I agree. Here's my prediction:

Clinton talks prime-time on Monday, possibly introduced by Bill, but it's understood, and even encouraged, for Clinton's delegates, especially her pledged delegates, to vote for her.

This actually has an advantage for Obama - it allows him to achieve a "victory" after the roll call on Wednesday, followed by a big demonstration. It could be topped off by Bill Clinton, from the floor, asking the chair to nominate Obama by acclamation, which them allows another big demonstration for Obama.
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Agree on the ballot reference. It's a colloquialism more than a literal meaning.
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I chanced upon the dark world of the "Clinton diehards" when I visited the Denver Group website. Scary!! Are these folks actually capable of causing as much trouble as they would obviously like to? Shouldn't Hillary give them a swift kick in the rear?
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2 replies · active less than 1 minute ago
I think that's the key here. Clinton needs to approve her name being placed in nomination. All she has to do is say something like, "I appreciate the support, but I have endorsed Obama, I am no longer a candidate for President, and my name will not be placed in nomination at the convention" (Modified by whatever legalese is needed to allow her to continue to fundraise - keeping her campaign officially "suspended".
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SarahLawrence Scott's avatar

SarahLawrence Scott · 873 weeks ago

OK, I'm confused. In this post, it sounds like you think Clinton's name should explicitly not be placed in nomination; in the post three up it sounds like you think it implicitly should. There are niceties of how this works that I'm not following. Could you try to clarify what you're envisioning?
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